Guild Wars 2

I’m also dissatisfied with the fixed colors in combination with the lack of ability to dye weapons. I’m not very happy with weapon chest drops being locked to a specific prefix either. I got a valkrie stat weapon chest and I picked the trident because there’s no way I would equip that in a slot that I would make significant use out of and you can’t even salvage unwanted ascended items.

Junkpile.7439:

Why anybody would have 200g worth materials?

Because it was announced significantly ahead of time that ascended weapons would be obtained by crafting?!? Stands to reason that the prices of said items would sky rocket if you held onto them. Also stands to reason you don’t want to pay those bloated prices if you want to craft your ascended weapons. Therefore you gather higher level materials and bank them in preparation.

longshot.1397:

ok, so its a simple PvE only build. looking for feedback.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQRAsd7dlYg6CHGyvDfIFRWBRa9AgH0fVFiHmCMCfA-jACBYLBkgAgiAM9pIasV1FRjVXDT5iIq2MuIa1SBExyI-e

Been GS/Staff all my guardian life and mostly AH/EM, so its a big breakaway.. also any tipss for this style of play would be great.

I use this exact trait set up, so my best advice is to stay mobile with this build. Make maximum use of blinds and aegis. If you don’t have blinds or aegis available again yet, make sure to dodge often. Your crit chance is pretty low…although I’m pretty sure rhs doesn’t show up on the stat sheet on that talent calculator. A high crit chance maximizes empowering might and vigorous precision for this build. The only consecration I routinely use is WoR. I always swap that one utility between WoR, Bane, SYG depending on the encounter. My other two slots are always retreat and save yourselves.

Naranek.3467:

Sandra Martino.3870:

- Remove Altruistic healing and Monks focus

I sincerely hope not. I’ve grown rather fond of my AH guardian, and if devs started messing with her I’d be very put out. Especially since I’m already well on the road to getting my Theodosius staff. Nice Crest of the Magi on there, one or two WvW healing infusions… Staff #3 plus Writ of the Merciful plus Writ of Exaltation is a thing of beauty.

If they followed a previous poster’s (Sandra Martino.3870) suggestion and made a fourth virtue…and made that be the current effects of AH…that would accomplish two worthwhile things:

1. Increase sustain for offensive guardians (something sorely needed).
2. Free up tankish/low dps guardians to try some new traits and improve their damage output.

No guardian would lose anything in the process…all I see is win in that scenario.

My answer to the OP’s question is a fourth virtue. I also wouldn’t mind more elite choices. A signet elite and a shout elite come to mind. I’m not a fan of elite skills that override my normal weapon skills and/or lock out my utilities. That leaves us with nothing but renewed focus and I don’t like channeling skills.

Aza.2105:

No offensive guardian traits into zeal.

I don’t know what you are smoking, but I don’t want any lol. Fiery wrath says hello. Not many players from any class will turn down 10% additional damage if they are going dps.

Soryuju.8164:

The changes to Meditations also show that they’re trying to at least throw offensive Guardians a bone, so we’ll see if any more changes cater to that style.

Based on this preview, I’d say that overall, it looks like an exciting patch for Guardians. Once the condition meta settles down a little bit, I’ll be looking forward to pulling out my Meditation Guardian in SPvP again, and hopefully we’ll see at least some diversification in viable playstyles across the board. My only concern at this point is power creep – they didn’t talk about nerfing very much in the preview, and a lot of things need to be brought down before the game can truly start to be healthy again.

Honestly….making changes to meditations does not show any intent to “throw offensive guardians any bone”. Offensive guardians do not trait for toughness. Offensive guardians trait for power and critical chance…and grab at least 5 in virtues and honor for vigor and inspired virtues.

If they want to throw offensive guardians a bone…they will either move all of that mandatory symbol stuff out of zeal to accommodate players using weapons that don’t have access to symbols…or they will make symbols available for all weapons. They will finally grant combo field finishers for 1h sword and give us some mobility without having to use 2/3 utility slots to get mobility. They will add some sustain to offensive guardian traits or make the addition of symbols/combo finishers for the currently excluded guardian weapons provide sustain. They will provide an offensive elite that doesn’t lock out your normal skills.

About this power creep that people are mentioning. Attempts to equalize (somewhat) damage out put between professions or between builds within a profession does not constitute power creep. It would be different if the top damage professions were being boosted..but that does not appear to really be the case. Many mmos have learned the hard way that balancing does not mean that every time you buff something…something else has to be nerfed. There is such a thing as just correcting an inequity and there not being anything else that is wrong after that inequity has been corrected.

I’m also not excited at yet another semi mandatory utility slot that groups will be demanding me to use to hold their hands in dungeons/fractals. I don’t mind using stab or wor…and I always slot save yourselves just for the group condi clear/swiftness/stun break….but now I’m looking at purging flames being the new demanded utility slot. Got to say…that does not excite me.

Obtena.7952:

ODB.6891:

The only merits of non dps builds are to either hold the hands of sub par players or to compensate for self sub par play.

Yes, and there are alot of players don’t play at that level needed for the DPS builds. Those players still need to exercise some level of competence when teaming. Ergo, non-dps builds have merit for them. It’s not a hard concept.

If the idea that non-optimized DPS players doing non-competitive content is so offensive to DPS people, then DPS people have the option to organize their own teams with each other. Forcing this “DPS-only for PVE” philosophy on players isn’t going to have much of an impact when it goes against the VALUE those players place on the ability to choose how they want to play, even if you think it’s bad.

For example, do you think the guy that wants a PVE/WvW build cares if a single build won’t be optimized for either? You simply don’t understand or respect how other people want to play the game. You guys might have a point if you paid the initial cost of the game and compensated people for their time to play. Only then can you tell them what and how to do it. Until then, you have no authority to dictate that people SHOULD be doing something in game, especially for those of you appealing to the sense of shame by insults and downplay of people’s capability.

This has nothing to do with how anyone wants to play the game. You are so busy trying to justify being bad/running a bad build, that you are completely missing the point. This has everything to do with being considerate of others in cooperative game…or at least cooperative content in this game. You don’t solo dungeons..you complete them as a group…which means you depend on your group mates to do their part to make the experience enjoyable. There is nothing enjoyable about carrying others on your back to the finish line when that was not your intended reason for participating.

Your entire assumption that the group does not care that you are bad, just because it is a pug, is extremely flawed logic. Nobody intentionally joins in on a group activity to intentionally have a negative experience. Just because no one says anything to you, does not mean you aren’t being a total tool. Its more likely that they just haven’t identified that you are the dead weight that is slowing the group down or think that it will be less of a hassle to just carry you than it would be to kick and replace. You also seem to be of the opinion that bad builds only slow the group down by a few minutes…that is sometimes true..but depending on how many bad builds/players you have at the same time..that gets exponentially worse. I just witnessed 3 players take about 3 minutes to kill one veteran trash mob in a pug fractal…that’s just ridiculous. Multiply that by an entire run and you can imagine the result. I tend to pug dungeons despite being in a very large guild because I’m just lazy like that…I don’t like organizing my own group and I don’t want pressure to stay in the group if the others are bad. I often find decent groups with minimal bads…and I can tell you that others appreciate smooth and quick runs in pugs even more so than in organized groups.

No one is trying to tell you how to play, but it wouldn’t hurt to show some common courtesy and make your presence be a positive addition to the group that you volunteered to join. You don’t have to run the best build..there is plenty of room for compromise…just be reasonably effective. When your damage is so low that a mobs regen outpaces your damage..there might just be a problem.

rojak.1894:

Hi, wanted to share a little of my experiences as I find myself in the same shoes as OP. I PUG most of the time too, so I do have some armor pieces to switch just in case.

I did learn alot more about the class after dropping 30 Valor and Toughness/Vit gear. At first I switched my trinkets and weapons to Berserkers then gradually the armor pieces. I’m still not confident taking off 30 points in Honor, so I guess it’s more practice till I’m comfortable with a lower HP pool. I do feel discouraged at times when I get downed alot in the beginning, but it gets better Besides the numbers you see will make it tempting to play

One does have to be more proactive at dodging/positioning/activating skills and paying attention to the animations of bosses. Knowing your encounters helps alot and swapping utilties/weapons beforehand helps too.

I found most of the tips on surviving from the community: (GW2guru is also good if you’re looking for more DPScentric builds)

- 15 in Radiance would give you spammable blind for trash mobs
- using combos like light field from symbols or Wall to cure conditions
- keep protection up with hammer when you need it
- reflect projectiles / absorb with shield bubbles
- moving in fights/staying behind bosses
- Shelter, focus #5, aegis from Retreat / Virtue gives on demand block for the big hits if timed right
- getting your crit chance high for vigor if you have points in Honor
- Sigil of Energy if you need more dodges
- Renewed Focus gives invulnerability
- Virtue tree has good support (Absolute Resolution/Indomitable Courage) and increases your boon duration

Excellent post for any trying to switch from turtle to dps.

Obtena.7952:

If you are lost, it’s because people have an axe to grind. You have been trolled in this thread by proponents of the DPS-only approach to PVE. These specific individuals look down upon anyone that has survivability issues in a DPS setup. In otherwords, you offer a nice trolling target to them because in their perspective, everyone that doesn’t heavy-DPS or does DPS and can’t survive in PVE is a leecher, a noob and is knowingly countering the efforts of their team to complete content.

I see nothing but truth in the “dps-only approach to pve”. Stuff doesn’t die without dps. The only merits of non dps builds are to either hold the hands of sub par players or to compensate for self sub par play. If zerk players, of any class, can clear the content faster, more efficiently, and without excessive deaths….then what other conclusion can you come to? I’m not saying that full zerk is the only way, because hybrid builds are very nice in some cases. I’m just saying that focusing on toughness and vitality are a detriment to pve dungeon efficiency…therefore it is directly countering what most pve dungeon groups are trying to accomplish.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

If on the other hand you want to run a subpar build with no redeeming merits other than to enable yourself to play lazily (assuming you are decent enough to play without the AH crutch) then you’re just purposefully being useless. And if you’re just going to be useless from the start, I might as well just run the dungeon with one less player and sell the slot at the end for some free cash.

Truth

Amins.3710:

Our Bunker is awesome.

A couple points:

1) I have to agree w/ Jax in that most people don’t utilize Blinds properly for roaming / sPvP (basically they’re both the same; small skirmishes/encounters). I also feel most people don’t use Energy Sigils and maximize weapon swaping. I also feel most people don’t get how powerful Aegis is and thus, don’t spec for it at all…. but Resolve does need to be looked at. It’s sup-par.

…

3) We sacrifice too much for our pure DPS Builds: 12-14k hp and 2400 armor is just freak’n STUPID on a Tank class w/o es-capability. The ~reason~ other classes make it work is because they can get the hell out of dodge… when needed: 1) Aoe Snares/Stuns/Roots/Cripples/Chills; 2) Synergistic Movement Abilities w/o sacrificing Utility slots; 3) Stealth

4) Our Bunker builds don’t do enough DPS: Retal’s been nerfed to the ground and Burn is a joke w/o Condi… for which it’s asinine to expect an entire class to spec ENTIRELY for Condi… just for 1 FREAKING condition

I can’t help but agree with everything you said.

I base my build around blinds and aegis. I agree that virtue of resolve could use some improvement. I’d even go as far as to say courage could use some as well. The low regen from resolve and the long cd if you actually use either of them puts me off on actually using them. It makes me just leave them alone for the passive effect. I use retreat in place of courage…specifically for the added benefits of swiftness and shorter cd.

I agree that we sacrifice way too much for sub par performance when we try to build for dps. I primarily play pve, but even then…the difference between soldier classes is too much. I agree 100% that warriors needed the improvements they got. I think they should keep everything they got. I just think the guardian needs some adjustment to match what most other classes have received. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to keep guardian HP, damage, and mobility low in light of what has been given to warriors and other classes now (higher regen, high hp, high mobility, burst damage, boon hate, boon stealing, condi spam, etc). We’re not really close to being the best at dealing with conditions, we don’t have the best regen, our hp is low by default if not traited for bunker, I’m spending 2/3 of my utility slots on mobility…I’m just saying…If I have to be glass to do damage…there’s not really a good reason that I shouldn’t be doing top shelf damage at this point. The whole rationale for low damage, low hp, and low mobility seems to have disappeared with the buff history of other classes since launch.

I also agree with the problem of low dps in guardian bunker builds. From a pve perspective…its really annoying to get stuck in a group with a bunch of bunkers…especially guardian bunkers. Killing something semi challenging is like watching paint dry with a group like that.

Nanashi.5704:

I’ve got a heavy and a medium armor class already so I decided it’s time to make a light armor class, take advantage of those sexy light armor clothing wnkwink, there is a couple of mesmers in the group of people i play with already so i dont really want to make one of them. So that leaves me with necro or ele and i’d like to see what each forum has to say about their class.
I’m thinking more of a PVE focus so how are necros in dungeons and fractals, maybe for champion farming. what are their strengths and weakness in your guys’ opinions?

I’ve played all the light armor classes except for an engineer at this point. If choosing between a necro, an elementalist, or a mesmer…I’d take the necro for fractals and dungeons 0% of the time. The reasons are as follows:

1. party support – mesmer and ele both have excellent party support and the necro does not. Mesmer’s and ele both bring a significant presence of party boons and a necro only brings conditions to enemies. Conditions are less effective than boons. There is also the difference in utility skills like projectile reflection (traited mesmer focus) and quickness (time warp). Elementalists have strong healing and condition removal in water attunement. Elementalists have protection (traited) on auras. Necromancers don’t have anything that matches any of this functionality.

2. Survival – mesmer and ele both win again. Both have blocks, protection, and evades. All a necro has is limited protection options and our freshly kitten DS. There’s also the stability issue..something necro’s still lack in sufficient degree. There is also our self healing issue…no other class is locked out of self healing by the primary class mechanic. This is compounded by the new “kill you through your DS” improvement…since you can’t gain any health while you are in DS by any means.

3. Control – Necro’s really don’t have any better control options than mesmer’s or elementalists. Necro’s only unique control option is fear, and It is usually either detrimental to party effectiveness (spreading mobs out instead of grouping them for fast killing) or it has no effect. I used to dislike the mesmer control move (temporal curtain->into the void), but I came to love it for positioning mobs.

Bellamy.9860:

Also in the survivability departement: We got the best access to wide area blinds.

My guardian begs to differ. Traited virtue of justice paired with 1h sword’s #2 skill. I can pop virtue of justice every time I kill something and 1h sword #2 is also on a very short cool down.

PMilkos.9103:

@ODB If the game’s intention was doing as much damage as possible, as you seem to suggest, then stats like healing power, tougness and vitality would not exist. Healing/Tanking forcused traits would not exist. Purely defensive runes would not exist. Full glass cannon berserker would be the only available spec.

Yet it’s not. It’s just one out of dozens, and yet it’s the only one out of dozens of specs that is trully efficient.

The game may have set out to “demolish the holy trinity” (though I personally prefer to refer to it as the “holy quartet” of Damage/Tank/Support/Control) but they ultimately ended up with supporting just Damage with a slight bit of support. And more to the point, the role distinction between classes still exists in the game – the classes are more flexible than in your average MMORPG, but that’s nothing new. You still have your support tank (guardian), your controlling tank (necromancer), your damage support (elementalist), your pure damage dealer (thief) etc – the only difference is that they all have to build glass cannon, regardless of class, because the broken combat system overrides any and all class synergies.

TL;DR If damage was supposed to be king, then Anet would not bother coding in gear other than Berserker or mechanics other that invulnerability/raw damage. Yet they very much did. And that says something…

That’s flawed logic when you take it to the extreme…saying that stats like toughness, healing power, and vitality would not exist in a game where the pve focus is high damage. Any extreme statement like that is bound to be wrong. I can’t even see how you would say that about vitality with a straight (virtual) face. Its common knowledge that dead players do no dps. That being the case, until players reach a skill level that allows them to cut back on survival stats…then they and their teammates…are better off with them investing some in survival. That does not negate the reality that a player more skilled at dodging and tactics would do a better/more efficient job if they invested more in damage output.

For any mmo to be successful…there has to be at least the illusion of player choice and customization. There are also stats that support various builds such as condition damage. That makes your argument about berserker gear only not make much sense. There are also the pvp environments where those survival stats absolutely make sense and the entire damage first idea gets flipped upside down.

I have to disagree with you as well on the existence of “tanks” to any degree in pve. There has to be a consistent and even noticeable aggro system for “tanking” to actually occur/work. I also have to disagree with you on the absence of class synergies. Classes in this game do a decent job of working together. Some classes have tons of boons they share with others. Most classes have healing effects they share with others. Some classes provide projectile reflection, aoe cripples, etc. Even the necromancer provides synergies with other classes in the form of conditions like chill and cripple. The only issues I have with the necromancer’s synergies is the effectiveness of them.

@Terok

Okay, I think I see where the disconnect in this conversation is coming from now. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you seem to think this game is supposed to require specs that focus on things other than doing damage with some control/support side effects? As far as I can tell, that just isn’t the intent of this game design. What they appear to be shooting for…at least what they achieved…is a game that focuses on killing stuff fast, with added perks of control/support as a by product. That seems like the design intent to me, especially considering the intentional divergence from the trinity (which would facilitate pure support, tanking, healing roles). I personally like and purchased this game because the trinity was not present. After years of wow, I was pretty sick of dealing with spoiled, entitled, and arrogant tanks/healers…who expected the game to revolve around them because you could not play the game without them. This game model works on self reliance of each player, since everyone is capable of keeping themselves alive and killing stuff them selves. There are no healers in this game who’s sole purpose is to stand around keeping others alive…while not being able to kill things themselves. I think this self reliance model is a good thing. It allows you to build a group regardless of who you already have in your group.

I agree with you on the choice of a healing guardian or a support necromancer…I would choose neither of those. I will say that the healing guardian still brings more to the table by default than support necromancer though. That is due to boons being better than conditions and better all around design of the guardian class than the necromancer class. The guardian just has more/stronger/well rounded stuff baseline than the necromancer.

What it comes down to is a round peg in a square hole. This game seems to be currently designed around boons and ANET seems to be determined to make the necro work off of conditions instead. I applaud the intent/creativity/effort but our support-ish conditions need improvement before that actually works in the eyes of the general player base. Until DS is the equivalent of the block/invulnerability/evade options of other classes…the same applies.

I understand wanting all builds to be equally viable/wanted, but that’s unlikely to ever be the case due to the whole path of least resistance principle. Players are always going to want to get stuff done faster and easier. Having support/control does facilitate that..but having damage does it a little better…at least in the context of this game. I’m not saying there are not other classes (your healing guardian example) that aren’t a perfect fit for this game model..but the necromancer just stands out as the worst current culprit to me. This is largely due to its baseline inadequacies from the balancing perspective currently.

I think the damage is king approach is intentional in this game because it syncs so well with the dodge system. That’s ANET’s way of implementing a skill cap. You don’t need as much support/control when you are avoiding the incoming damage. This then allows you to focus on killing faster and getting your rewards faster as a direct result. That leads right back a short coming of the necromancer…lack of sufficient dodges. I was repeating what some previous poster said about “tanking dynamics” and believe a subsequent poster thought I was trying to say that necro’s should tank. That is the opposite of what I think. I wan’t zero tanking in this game. I don’t want anyone trying to “hold aggro”. I was just referring to the necro’s version of block/invul/evade. Necros had found a way to force themselves into the increase skill cap model with DS dancing..but the overflow nerf removed that. Now they are left with no way to participate in the skill cap meta. Every other class can still participate in that. I don’t think the answer to necro issues is “moar damage”, I just think we need to stand out as being exceptional at something (support conditions would work if improved) and have the block/invul/evade issue fixed.

Blaine Tog.8304:

spoj.9672:

Its your opinion that the problem lies with the game. But if ignore that factor the problem lies with the class. Necro doesnt contribute anything to group dps.

And theres no tanking in this game, saying necros are supposed to be tanks is just wrong. They are supposed to be more durable attrition based damage dealers. PvE is all about dps and currently necro’s dont have enough to contribute to that. In WvW and PvP they are fine.

I don’t think he’s saying Necros are supposed to be tanks, just that we’re supposed to use tanking dynamics (absorb the hit, heal back up, lock down the threat) as our way to survive, whereas other professions use some combination of blocks, evasions, invulnerabilities, mobility, clones, and stealth.

In PvE, tanking doesn’t work when everything one-shots you anyway and lock-down doesn’t work because of Defiant.

This is supporting that the problem is with the necromancer, not the game. It is an issue with the mechanics of the necromancer as far as how the necromancer has to try and accomplish this “tanking dynamic”. DS is supposed to be our tanking dynamic, but ANET is consistently gimping DS. Currently trying to pull a jedi mind trick on us about the % of hp that DS should have. Players have consistently tested it apparently to be anywhere from 100% to 120% of base hp and now we have a red post, after all this time, saying its 60%. Couple that with the damage overflow nerf….effectively removing our only block/invulnerability move.

Our control is similarly ineffective due to our mechanics. Fear has always been a poor control mechanism in the mmo genre…at least in a pve dungeon environment. It tends to spread mobs out, when they are not immune (hello defiant). Spreading mobs out is the opposite of what you want when you are trying to aoe stuff down. Effective control mechanics are barriers that block a mob’s ability to reach you or trap them in a certain area. Projectile reflects are also an extremely effective control mechanism. We have cripple and immobilize just like most other classes, but i’d take reflect any day over spectral wall’s fear. I can see where fear is valuable in pvp, but for pve…gimme relfect.

spoj.9672:

Terok.7315:

spoj.9672:

PvE is all about dps and currently necro’s dont have enough to contribute to that

Exactly, the content itself is the problem. If the game had a little more depth and mechanics like defiant didn’t discourage support oriented roles, other classes (not just necromancer) would become more desirable to group compositions. Necromancer is not meant to deal the most damage just as guardian or engineer isn’t meant to deal the most damage. We all have specific mechanics and designs that let us excel at different areas of the game.

I dont agree with this. Support and control are both heavily used in speedruns. Players that are skilled enough should be able to run full beserker and do the content much faster. You dont need to build supporty or build control to use it. The problem is necro doesnt really do any support or control worth taking into dungeons. Other classes that do more damage and can contribute to buffing the team can do everything the necro brings. Even if and when they make the mechanics far more in depth and interesting, necro’s still wont be taken because they dont provide anything worthwhile. It will still be a dps game and thats fine aslong as different types of dps roles are encouraged. But frankly the necro wont ever see some love until we get something that makes us a good pick in dungeons (unique team buff, maybe aura skills).

I agree with all of the above.

Andele.1306:

I think you need to go trough the basic game design course, the core 3 elements thay may never clash (and with clash i mean contradict based on genre) are: enjoyment in gameplay/fun, challenge one must overcome/difficulty and Foundation in development/good pacing, story, mechancs that help the gameplay, controls, etc
In a mmo (and mugs that created the mmorpg genre) the point of PvE isnt to “make most dps in least amount of time” or farm for something, but to have a expirience that is difficult enough for you to say “Hell yeah, im kitten!” when you finish it, fun enough not to make you smash the controler/keyboard/mouse/whatever you use to play in a enviorment that allows for social interaction because of the chaos factor the play brings.
Great example of that was AQ40 in WoW, till you got to the last 2 bosses, everything all 40 people did was actually influencing the fight, because the bosses at their core were quite simple (help the person mind controlled/dont get yourself, dont stand in ooze, kite swarm till boss is invul for a phase so that you dont enrage him, etc) and how prepared the players were made fights harder/easier, but that didnt mean a actual gear check, instead having consumables up, chosing the right skills/build and rotations.

You managed to miss the whole point of what I was talking about. My post wasn’t about the subjective and fluff factors of any game. That stuff is a given in any type of game. My post was about performance factors in what makes players want a particular class/profession in challenging pve content versus other possible classes/professions. This game makes those factors decidedly different from a game like wow (your AQ40 reference) because wow revolved around the mmo trinity (tank/healing/dps)…in which you actually wanted dedicated healers and tanks…both of which did minimal to no dps. GW2 does not reward groups that carry members doing minimal to no dps as the content is cleared much faster and efficiently if all group members provide a significant amount of damage. Yes, you can and yes people do clear the content with suboptimal damage output…but it is slower. You can’t help but acknowledge that players, in general, tend to gravitate towards the path of least resistance…faster runs…so they can move on and do something else as soon as possible. That’s why you see those posts and gw2lfg.com requesting specific classes. Everyone isn’t like that, but it happen enough.

All I’m trying to say is that currently the necromancer seems to be less of a benefit to a party than the majority of other options. If you had options on which class to fill your 5th group spot..would you really choose a necromancer over a guardian, warrior, mesmer, elementalist, etc? This is of course assuming you have your choice of available classes waiting to fill out your last spot. If you want condition damage/aoe…you can choose an engi, mesmer, or ele. All three have higher survivability/mobility. Choosing and elementalist will also gain you significant group healing as an option…you don’t get that from a necromancer. If you want direct damage, you can choose a dps guard or a warrior…both of which can give significantly more direct damage while also buffing your group…both of which also have more mobility and survivability than a necromancer. Both of which also have significant group healing options. I don’t mention ranger or thief as I have never played either.

My post was also not about gear checks or consumables. It was only about the way people play the game..based on the way a mmo is designed for players to clear the content. No one “wants” to clear a dungeon slower…they want to clear it faster, and with fewer player deaths to slow them down.

I just don’t feel that the necromancer, in its current state, is helping to achieve that goal as effectively as other classes. Someone in a different thread pointed out that boons are more effective than conditions in terms of extending survival (that’s a con in the necro’s corner). Necromancers have the hardest time evading attacks out of all classes in this game due to having the least amount of dodges in a short time span (another con in the necro’s corner). Most (maybe all) other classes have something they can do to avoid a death blow…ours just got removed (another con on the necro’s corner). We can remove conditions from our team, which is great (pro in the necro’s corner), but so can most if not all of the other classes.

The gist of what I’m trying to say is that necromancers need to stand out as doing something really well, receive a minimum of basic survival tools, and our survival conditions need to be at least as good as their equivalent or pseudo equivalent boons. I’m saying that the game doesn’t need to redesigned or tweaked to fix the necromancer…its the necromancer that needs the tweaking.

Terok.7315:

Necromancer isn’t the problem where PvE is concerned, the content itself is the problem. Damage is king and necromancer isn’t meant to do the most damage.

There is no problem with the content. Dealing damage and/or providing defense/healing, while dealing damage, is the basis of every action mmo in a dungeon/pve setting. Every mmo’s pve is about efficiency in farming/clearing content…taking forever to kill stuff is the opposite of that basic design. As it is now, we aren’t even as viable as other classes at taking forever to kill stuff while avoiding death. I would definitely say that the necromancer is the problem. When it gets to the point that there is reluctance to bring a particular class/profession into a dungeon run versus other options…in a game that is allegedly designed to avoid that problem…then there is a real problem with balance/design. The parts should be interchangeable without a noticeable loss in performance/survivability.

Passive: x amount of additional health and chance to proc group regeneration on crit
Active: maximum sized symbol granting stability and summon spirit weapons like a previous poster said

shameless.4728:

what dng can give me the gear i need?

Would you like someone to log in on your character and play it for you too? Are you seriously too lazy to even look at the vendors to see what gear you want in Lions Arch?

LOL nvm…just paid attention to your forum name…

sas.6483:

With regards to WvW – after a day’s experience with the new DS in big three-way ZvZs, while I think that the LF damage-into-health nerf sucks, I am not convinced that our sustain in large scale fights isn’t pretty solid assuming that we trait and gear for it. Going 20 points into SR is possible without giving up much if any offensive utility, and DS does in fact soak more damage than before. Likewise, siphoning is not terrible, if you’ve actually done the math. … I think that if we were to get some of a baseline reduction in LF decay, better ranged LF generation, healing through DS, use of slot skills while in DS, or something like that, I might be reasonably happy.

As a related comment, not to be inflammatory, but it might be unreasonable to expect that 30/30/10/0/0 or similar builds will be or should be tanking much damage through DS. Maybe that’s a problem, but I’m not sure it is.

Last, one of the things that is bothering me is that I get the feeling that the dev team listened to a bunch of vocal high end tourney players with alterior motives, and then nerfed some of the wrong things. Some honest commentary from the dev team about what’s gone on in that regard might be nice, but we probably won’t get it.

I think that any necro spec that goes 30 into SR should be able to “tank” damage through DS. That is as long as they refuse to give necro’s vigor and high uptime on vigor at that. If you can’t dodge, then you have no choice but to tank. Otherwise, every necro build would have to involve heavy trait allocation into death magic for the toughness and stacking pvt gear. That would be the opposite of what anet said they were going for with “build diversity”.

I agree that we need some baseline improvements in DS to be viable. There are so many semi mandatory traits for DS in SR because nothing is baked in to DS itself. Anyone who uses DS wants the stability trait, wants the cd reduction trait, wants the anti life force decay trait, wants the piercing+vulnerability trait for life blast, wants the skill recharge trait, etc. Honestly, I even want the transfusion trait out of blood magic so that I’d feel less selfish for playing a necro in a pve group. The seriously need to improve DS on a baseline basis by having some of these things included by default. I’d vote for stability at the very least. We definitely need to be able to heal our real health bar while in DS as well…especially now that we can get killed from DS now if we only have a little health on our real health bar.

I tend to agree that anet seems to balance by listening to a bunch of biased high end pvp players versus actually looking at and testing their own game. That part really needs to change.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Two responses, and neither of you told me if PvE requires more dodges than are physically possible without Vigor.

And you want your profession mechanic to be a poor version of an Aegis? That’s what you want. You don’t want it to be useful, you don’t want to be given something else. You just want to use DS for avoiding spike damage in PvE.

What you don’t realize is I’m actually curious about why you can’t dodge things in PvE with dodges, and I think that with this change, your potential for receiving something along the lines of an evade/invuln/block have increased.

So please, divert your angst elsewhere.

How about answer your own question? Try playing whatever your current class without traiting for vigor or using any evasion/protection/block skills. Don’t use any weapon mobility skills either. Try that on a fight like lupi in arah or alpha in coe. Then provide your own answer on whether 2 dodges are enough with no vigor. Try not being able to heal at all while using your core class mechanic on top of that.

Afya.5842:

I have to stand by spoj on this.

Aegis > blind. Reason is unshakable.
Quickness > Chill. It’s to buff your own dps. And unshakable.
Line of warding > fear as it doesn’t ruin your pull. (on a side note, I freaking hate those idiots who knockback/fear my perfectly pulled mobs.) ALSO unshakable.

We need melee cleave. I think most can agree. whether it should be on dagger is another question. Personally I want cleave on dagger because ele has ranged and aoe dagger, so why can’t ours cleave? But if they can simply introduce a new (to us) melee weapon that cleave, it’s even better.

And let me tell you, axe is still crap. Yes, you get invul, but it’s traded from lowering your own dps compare to using dagger. In open world boss it is always capped so your invul is useless anyway. In dungeon it’s down to 5 people. Axe damage compare to dagger is so weak I don’t even know if there really is any increase in total group damage. Also if it happens to have 2 warriors in the group, Invul is gonna capped in no time and you will be left with a weapon with no damage.

Axe #2 is ok for life force generation and axe trait is great for DS1, but that’s it. I recommend you never use axe as main weapon. Only swap to that before DS, and use axe 2 right after you pop out, then goes back to the dagger for damage and life force.

Oh, did I mention line of sight? A ranged weapon with crappy range doesn’t make it a melee even if you use it in melee range.

You know what…I can mostly get behind you on this. boons do generally outperform debuffing conditions. The only reason I agree with the blind versus aegis issue is that some mobs are immune to blind and blind can’t stop an aoe hit. Chill versus quickness…they serve two different purposes…one is defensive and the other is offensive. What I can’t get behind is what he was saying about lack of contribution and necros not having a place in groups. I also can’t get behind being a complete kitten on the forums. I have also not given dagger a fair shake at max level play yet due to lack of melee cleave…so you are probably right on the damage output. The vulnerability stack limit probably makes the difference there depending on group composition.

Thank you for not being a tool like that guy…I have no problems with a reasonable discussion. Its only reasonable to acknowledge the need for melee cleave on a melee weapon, and yes..I agree that a sword would probably be optimal for the cleave…or a scythe like many others have posted. I’d even think the axe auto should cleave.

If you are standing by him on the other issues…I don’t even know how to respond to that though. All melee group requirements for pve? Necros not allowed in pve parties. Face tanking every red circle in pve? The logical concept of dps up time when you have to move away from your target? I agree that the damage is probably not there for certain abilities and weapons yet..but that is the point of posting about it.

spoj.9672:

It is a learn2play issue, you obviously dont realise 99% of pve content is done in full melee and people ducking out of range actually screws the group over more because they arent sharing damage anymore. Melee is what you always do in a proper group, when some people dont melee while the rest are in melee dealing with trakitten causes problems. When the whole group is melee and stacked its smooth.

Necro isnt worth taking in these sort of groups though due to the lack of cleave and lack of party buffs. They do provide good damage but thats not good enough even with burst aoe for trash(its a selfish class). The lack of cleave is an issue only because necro doesnt have damage buffs for the entire party or some other useful utility/support. Cleave would help necro become more viable but it shouldnt be put on dagger.

My comments about the other classes weapons wasnt regarding cleave it was regarding that you only use auto attack to maintain maximum dps. The other skills on those weapons are situational, just like necro dagger.

It wouldnt fit or be fair to give cleave dagger on necro and not give it to thieves.

I’m amazed at how ignorant and arrogant you are. I guess it takes all kinds to make the world work. That aside, I’ll bite. Your comment indicating that necromancers do not even belong in group play is borderline kittened. You need to take some time to actually read about and learn the mechanics of this game. Yes, boons are great, no boons are not the only thing that benefits the party. The necromancer is designed to and does benefit party play by debilitating the enemy instead of empowering teammates. Blind is just as powerful of a benefit as aegis is. Chill is just as powerful of a benefit as quickness. Spectral wall’s fear is just as effective as a guardian’s line of warding. Spectral wall also offers protection for any ally that passes through it. Wells also offer aoe condition cleanse/conversion of conditions to boons as well as boon stripping. In short…you need to take your own childish catch phrase to heart…L2P.

You also seem to be missing a primary point of these forums. That point being letting issues be known, so they can be corrected and improved. Its just stupid to even think that a class should just be excluded instead of being improved. Hostile and ignorant comments regarding such things is pointless. Ultimately its not up to you to fix things in this game…its the developers and you never see them on the forums spouting ignorance.

You keep going back to thieves in your comments about dagger cleave. I don’t play a thief, never have and probably never will. That being the case I have no idea what aoe capability their main hand dagger has…so I won’t even bother to look it up as I really don’t care about that class in particular. I will say that if they don’t have it..then I think they should too. It does not make much sense in a game with such significant aoe encounters to have only single target attacks on your melee weapon.

Your initial statement in the above post also baffles me. Do you actually believe that 99% of pve content is designed to stand in the red circles and melee? If so…that’s the biggest learn2play issue I have ever seen anyone openly admit to. Not only is that 99% the most exaggerated overstatement I’ve heard in a while, but that defeats the entire purpose of the dodge system this game is based on. That defeats the entire purpose of the red circles to begin with..as they are a warning to dodge. Seriously…I hope whatever issue you are having today is only temporary and that it doesn’t spill over into whatever you may have to do of some actual importance today.

spoj.9672:

ODB.6891:

spoj.9672:

ODB.6891:

LastDay.3524:

I’d say that the worst Necro weapon is main-hand Dagger.
After the buffs to Axe Mastery and Life Blast the Axe is just plain better than the Dagger is.

The Dagger doesn’t seem to know what it wants to be.
The Life Siphon skill and high Life Force generation imply that it’s a “tank” weapon.
As does Dark Pact, which goes together nicely with Wells.

Honestly if it’s auto-attack also stole life and crippled and Life Siphon was replaced with something more useful it’d be much more interesting.
A melee weapon with no block, no leap and no cleave? Meh.

Agreed….main hand dagger definitely needs a complete rework.

Theres nothing wrong with dagger mainhand except maybe the #2 being weak.

Being in melee range and only being able to hit one target at a time….fail. Having only one actual decent attack..and that’s the auto…fail. Any weapon when the only thing viable to do is auto attack?!? Main hand dagger is outclassed by main hand axe now…largely due to the melee range requirement with no actual benefit to being in melee range (no cleave) combined with the trait set up for main hand axe…that also benefits death shroud damage.

The same situation goes for a lot of dps weapons on other classes (warrior axe, guardian sword, ranger sword). Its a dagger, it doesnt make sense to cleave. Necro dagger actually does more damage than thief dagger auto attack (ignoring backstab). The benefit of being in melee range is far superior damage. Making dagger cleave would be massive mistake and the devs wont do it so theres no point trying to argue it. Having a new weapon like a sword cleave however, is possible if anet ever decide to introduce more weapon choices for classes.

Also you claiming having low dps uptime with dagger because its melee is a learn2play issue.

Lol Learn2havecommonsense. Common logic tells you that a melee weapon will have lower up time than a ranged or semi ranged one. That’s simply because you will have to move out of melee range from time to time based on encounters. The damage the weapon deals will have to be far superior to the other options to compensate for this basic common sense fact that you don’t seem to grasp. With the only viable thing main hand dagger can do being auto attack…I doubt that is the case.

You also need to educate yourself on those other class’ weapons and what they do. I play a guardian as well and I know for a fact that the guardian 1h sword does hit multiple targets as part of its attack chain. So does the warrior axe…which I also have an 80 warrior which currently uses axe as my mh weapon.

Just because you feel it does not fit the dagger to hit multiple targets in melee…does not mean it does not need to in order to fulfill its role as a pve melee weapon for this specific class. This is not a game from 1980 where the focus was still on single targeting each mob down in coordination with others in a wow style raid. Most modern games have progressed past that concept now…hence all the aoe and cleaves. This class is the sore thumb in that respect.

spoj.9672:

ODB.6891:

LastDay.3524:

I’d say that the worst Necro weapon is main-hand Dagger.
After the buffs to Axe Mastery and Life Blast the Axe is just plain better than the Dagger is.

The Dagger doesn’t seem to know what it wants to be.
The Life Siphon skill and high Life Force generation imply that it’s a “tank” weapon.
As does Dark Pact, which goes together nicely with Wells.

Honestly if it’s auto-attack also stole life and crippled and Life Siphon was replaced with something more useful it’d be much more interesting.
A melee weapon with no block, no leap and no cleave? Meh.

Agreed….main hand dagger definitely needs a complete rework.

Theres nothing wrong with dagger mainhand except maybe the #2 being weak.

Being in melee range and only being able to hit one target at a time….fail. Having only one actual decent attack..and that’s the auto…fail. Any weapon when the only thing viable to do is auto attack?!? Main hand dagger is outclassed by main hand axe now…largely due to the melee range requirement with no actual benefit to being in melee range (no cleave) combined with the trait set up for main hand axe…that also benefits death shroud damage.

There is almost no scenario where it is better to use main hand dagger now versus main hand axe.
1. you want your DS to hit harder…axe or dagger? Clear winner is axe due to axe training.
2. you want to deal more damage…trait spite or blood magic? Clear winner is spite..which has the axe talent..and not the dagger talents.
3. you are attacking in melee range and whatever you are attacking drops a red circle on you. With dagger…you move out of the way and all you have to attack with is siphon…with axe…you have 100% of your attacks still work.
4. you want to hit multiple targets..with axe..you at least have one skill that does aoe..and it cripples (axe #3). With dagger…you have nothing.
5. The only things dagger has going for it are possibly higher damage auto (but with less uptime due to melee range and you take more damage due to melee range) and higher life force generation due to the auto. Even if you take the blood magic traits…I’m pretty sure the general consensus of the community is that the vampric traits are sub par and not worth the trade off of another trait line.

Not quite sure how you can say there is nothing wrong with main hand dagger when you consider the alternative.

LastDay.3524:

I’d say that the worst Necro weapon is main-hand Dagger.
After the buffs to Axe Mastery and Life Blast the Axe is just plain better than the Dagger is.

The Dagger doesn’t seem to know what it wants to be.
The Life Siphon skill and high Life Force generation imply that it’s a “tank” weapon.
As does Dark Pact, which goes together nicely with Wells.

Honestly if it’s auto-attack also stole life and crippled and Life Siphon was replaced with something more useful it’d be much more interesting.
A melee weapon with no block, no leap and no cleave? Meh.

Agreed….main hand dagger definitely needs a complete rework.

Bhawb.7408:

Necromancers actually have a pretty nice selection of weapons compared to other classes. We’re right about in the middle. I’d honestly love for more weapons, and there is a very high possibility we will see them in the future, but I would much prefer that they start getting the game really balanced out first, and then look at expanding.

Honestly, I don’t think we’ll see real balance anytime in the near future. They seem to get all their “balance” ideas from pvp forum posts and their pvp sotg chat sessions. They need to implement some type of test server realm and actually use accumulated data from that to really balance this game.

In the meantime, while they figure that out, they could definitely stand to flesh out some glaring discrepancies in game mechanics for the various classes. Examples being lack of melee cleave for necromancer weapons (axe, dagger). Lack of stability/anti-projectile options (intentionally) for necromancers. I understand the need for classes to be different, but there are certain core mechanics to the game design that you need to have all classes work with/against appropriately. Single target only auto attacks when 90% (made up number) of the encounters are aoe situations. Getting bounced around by knock downs, knock backs, etc…making you unable to even use our core class mechanic (DS).

As for the topic, I would definitely love a couple of additional weapon choices. A 1h sword would definitely be welcome if it meant gaining melee cleave. I’d be happy for a melee 2h weapon as well. I prefer powermancer builds, so I’m looking for weapons that don’t rely on damaging conditions. Chill and vulnerability would be great.

ODB.6891:

Does anyone chose spectral utilities instead of wells in PvE?

Overkillengine.6084:

Capping the amount of life-force you can lose to a set max rate per second no matter how many people are attacking you while in Death Shroud. That would give a closer approximation of the invulnerability/avoidance mechanics that other classes get.

Attacking a Necromancer would still cause them to have to exit Death Shroud sooner than they would unattended, but would help them greatly to survive the current behavior of mass focus firing a Necromancer the moment they are identified as such.

I really like this idea. Its like giving death shroud its own version of protection.

Does anyone chose spectral utilities instead of wells in PvE?

Just wanted to get a consensus on viability of spectrals versus wells in pve. I personally would love to do spectrals instead of wells just because I’m not a fan of picking utilities that require either myself or someone else to “stand in the circle”. I prefer a more mobile playstyle. The downside to this seems to be the overwhelming difference in utility gained from wells versus spectrals. Spectral builds seem to be a selfish build unfortunately as they offer no benefits to your party/group…outside of spectral wall that is.

Farming Flats.5370:

Axe Necro range is fine …. Ranger axe is also 600. Use a scepter if you want more range.

Apples and oranges bro. Axe on a necro is a power weapon…scepter is a condition weapon. I believe the prevailing sentiment on axe is that it should be a melee weapon…not a ranged one. The reason there is even any discussion about its range is thakittens not doing a good enough job at either. Range so short that you may as well be in melee and complete lack of melee cleave…which is essential to efficient melee combat in this game.

Afya.5842:

Spectral Walk is so awesome it works like a save before every move you make, like in pokemon lmao.

izanagi!

I’d like to see the graphic/animation for death shroud cleaned up. Currently its just an amorphous cloud that has no real graphic or style…and just serves to obscure ground effects. I’d like to see it cleaned up like they did with ground particle effects for combo fields and red circles. I’d much prefer DS to have an actual graphic…like a shadowy silhouette or maybe a cloak and scythe like the grim reaper.

Flowerpower.6795:

I realy like all those things. A new weapon would be so much fun.
But i don’t agree that necromancers need a new weapon with cleave and high direct damage in melee combat. I mean.. its a necromancer, not a warrior in light armor and not a dervish.
Necromancers are normally caster. Vodoopriests and warlocks using dark magic. Somebody that gets his greataxe to rush on his enemy and hit them with high damage is no necromancer in my opinion. I think sometimes people just want to do something with a profession that can’t do that and justify it with other profession ability to do it. I mean if you see a warrior that says: “anet give me spectral walk to be able to hit and run like the necromancer” would you give them the spectral walk? …
Please give us more awesome looking stuff like spectral walk, plague and lichform. I dont care about pve balancing.. if a warrior can kill a mob in 7sec and i need 12sec it’s no problem to me as long as it is fun to play the profession.
In structured pvp its another thing.. balance is more important there i think because if a warrior can down me in 7sec and i can down him in 12sec.. it wont be so much fun for the necromancer.

Thats why i wanted skills like bury them. Would fit the role of the necromancer (sth like a ceremety keeper) and this skill offers a lot of teamplay combos and could look so funny!
I would do a video where my necromancer uses this skill on every graveyard in tyria or use it in tpvp on a stomped enemy! ;D

You need to keep anet’s design philosophy in mind. This was designed to be a versatile game where each class can be played as either melee or ranged….zerker or bunker. There are no “casters” in this game. That means there is absolutely nothing wrong with playing any class as melee or ranged. That’s why warriors have longbow and rifle. That’s why guardians have scepters and staves. That’s why thieves have pistols and swords. That’s why mesmers have 1h swords and staves. I think even rangers have melee weapons (never played one). Necromancers absolutely should have at least one viable melee dps weapon. Currently they have none…as the dagger does not qualify being that it is only single target…with the majority of content being aoe fights. Melee cleave is required to be viable in melee combat in this game. I think necromancers have enough ranged options at this point..we need something viable for melee. One topic of warriors getting something like spectral walk…Signet of Rage? Swiftness plus fury and might.

Back to the topic though…I like a lot of the ideas posted in this thread. I would love to have a scythe be our option..I’d prefer that over a hammer. I think a scythe fits necromancers more than a hammer would…as a hammer seems like a non-lethal weapon…whereas a scythe is all about death. I like the idea of “marked for death” as a stacking, non-damaging debuff as was posted earlier. I also like the idea of using debuffs like weakness/chill/vulnerability as proc effects from our weapon to give us staying power/survivability in melee versus boons like the guardian uses.

I would love to have a build based on melee cleave and that has synergy with spectral utilities…instead of being pigeon holed into using wells for aoe damage.

The philosophy of the OP is the reason so many mmos have failed. When you have options that are sub-par, you don’t nerf the ones that are not sub-par…you buff the ones that are sub-par.

Andele.1306:

To quote a smart mesmer: We aint op, just better designed (letting them dance of the finde border between).

I tend to agree with this assessment

Linguistically Inept.6583:

ODB.6891:

IMO…this CD should be cut in half and the duration doubled…plus adding stability.

so 12s of protection, stability and life force generation every 30s?
… not counting boon duration or spectral recharge bonus
that would be horribly OP; see http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_of_Earth

ODB.6891:

they should replace the useless green trail (flavor effect)

that green tail indicates where your start point is for http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Recall (for both absent minded necro players and others fighting them); its not useless

So you think necros are in a good place with stability? Honestly I was throwing the best case scenario out there…but even with a 5 second duration…the cd would still need to be brought down to about half of what it currently is. I don’t pvp or wvw much..primarily pve, but in any of those venues….60 seconds is too long of a cd…even 48 (traited is a bit too long)..for 5 seconds of value. Stuff happens on too short of a time frame for that. SA is competing for a utility slot with wells…do you currently think it is a viable alternative to a well right now? This profession is starved for stability currently..pretty sure our only current option is 3 seconds when entering DS as a trait, whereas everyone else gets it as a utility with no trait requirements. Comparing Necros with elementalists is like comparing apples and oranges. Its pretty much common knowledge that elementalists have extremely high survival capabilities between damage mitigation utilities, healing, traits, and escape mechanisms…plus nearly comparable condition applying capabilities…not to mention their damage output. Even mentioning them is just strengthening the argument for improving necros. Its no wonder that one of their stability+protection+stun break options has a 90 second cd.

As far as the spectral walk trail goes..i’d gladly sacrifice that tether option for an actual escape mechanism.

Tobbygnome.6793:

Ye i have a power set for PvE and i really don’t have many options for AoE. I run Axe/Focus with the talents but other than Axe 3 and Focus 4 which are both very weak against mobs, the only other time i get to AoE is my Wells and DS 4/5, all of which have more than a 30 second CD. I shouldn’t have to rely on utilities and CDs to do some AoE.

I mean i look at my Ele and i count x13 PBAOEs all from just weapon skills :P I am forced to switch to staff in order to AoE mobs.

We should have viable setups besides wells for our utilities. I’d prefer to go with a spectal skill line up in my utilities…but wells are so dominant in their functionality currently.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Jon Sharp did say that they were looking at moving more life force generation to the main-hand weapons and probably off of spectrals (though I feel spectrals should be left alone)

I can’t understand how you can think that spectrals should be “left alone”. 60 second base cd on SA for 6 second benefit?!? The only benefits being LF generation increase for those same 6 seconds while taking damage and 6 seconds of protection during that same time period. That’s a default of 10% uptime. Even then..you may spend those entire 6 seconds on your back due to lack of stability. One minute/60 seconds is an eternity in this game. IMO…this CD should be cut in half and the duration doubled…plus adding stability. This ability does not even compare to the benefits you get from wells…with shorter cool downs, more useful effects, and some of them deal damage. Even spectral walk should be improved..has the same cd and only grants swiftness…they should replace the useless green trail (flavor effect) with stealth (a usefull and needed escape mechanism). They should definitely not “leave spectrals alone”.

Zenith.7301:

- Axe range. This is incredibly important, as outside staff, which is a condition weapon, power necromancers have no viable power weapons. Even going by the autoattack, the staff is a terrible weapon since the autoattack is so bad — it won’t hit sidestepping opponents and the numbers it hits for are low.

Increase Axe range to 900.

- Dagger’s lack of cleave. It would seem they’d justify daggers for both thieves and necromancers as single target because they seemingly do high single target damage, yet the guardian sword and warrior axe especially do more damage than either of the two dagger variants and cleave.

More importantly, unlike a thief with sword the melee and necromancer in general lacks aoe that scales with the power stat besides life drain on DS.

Make Dagger necro cleave 3-4 targets.

-Dark Pact’s cast time and cooldown are silly. Dark Pact has double the cd of Illusionary Leap for the same effect of a root but without any secondary benefit like the clone kittenter fodder synergy. The necromancer is too easy to peel because it has poor close-up tools.

- Focus 5 still takes too much time to cast. It’s ridiculously telegraphed.

- Dagger 5 takes too long to land. The descending animation makes it so opponents can easily walk out of it before it lands.

---

Most importantly, survival is an issue with the power necro. To do any significant damage, because burst is not built into the class, the power necro relies on berserker gear to output damage comparable to thieves or warrior burst in knights gear.

But, the necro is very easy to train. A D/P thief, regardless of being knight or berserker, will dispatch you in a couple of backstabs because the class is so immobile and most classes can disengage from your sustained damage, prior to having forced you heal, and come back and finish you off.

Dagger 2 could drain life from opponents around you. As an aoe, it would help a necro going into melee in group fights quite a bit. It would also give the necro more aoe options.

Life generation on axe needs to go somewhere other than the channel, because if an opponent dodges through the channel you will pretty much have zero life force generation. Axe auto also needs an increase in damage by aroun 10-20%.

Because power necros don’t have staff, they need better axes to chill or roots to keep people on wells, which are their best scaling utilities. Either a chill could be applied after Dark Pact’s root wears off, or you could apply a chill on someone for the duration of the dagger 2 channel. Or maybe at the last chain of the necrotic bite.

Lich needs a projectile increase. At greater than 400 range it is easily sidestepped — you can test this with anyone. They can even just turn around and move away and neuter your entire elite, or reflect those projectiles back at you with dagger storm.

Flesh Golem and all minions will never be used so long as a) their survivability stays as is, and most importantly b) they don’t cleave or have aoe. Single target attacks in this game are of very little value considering what most engagements emphasize, and that is aoe. Nobody needs a minion hitting a single person in a zerg of 40v40, let alone 20v20.

This

Lets start with the QQ fest….spectral wall. Despite all the bads rushing to the forums and spamming nerf cries…just because:
1: they don’t want to slot stun breaks/condition cleansers
2: they fail at dodging through spectral wall
3: somehow they can’t just walk/run around that tiny line on the ground

Spectral wall needs a buff not a nerf. It is a similar ability to wall of reflection, line of warding and temporal curtain in the respect that it is yet another “line” ability that acts as a combo field. Its almost inexcusable to get caught by this as you can just simply dodge through it, run around it, etc. It does not apply its effect if dropped on top of either another player or a npc…you literally have to face run through it. Unlike wall of reflection and temporal curtain…it does not have the capability to reflect projectiles. Similar to line of warding…it attempts to prevent you from passing through it..although dodging through it works apparently. I think this should either be a projectile blocker (hence the “wall”) or changed to a standard circular field on the ground…eliminating the need to run through it to get protection…just have it centered under the caster. The fear is fine in my opinion…as fear duration is extremely short and is breakable by stun breaks.

Spectral armor needs a serious buff. The duration is just unacceptable. 60 second base cool down with 6 second benefit? That’s only 10% uptime without traits..and even with both traits..that’s 6 second duration with a 48 second cd. The only thing this utility does is give extra life force while taking damage for 6 seconds and grant protection for those same 6 seconds to reduce that damage. That’s not even close to being competitive with utilities that could occupy those same utility slots (I’m looking at you wells). Wells even have shorter base cool downs than SA at this point, plus they actually do damage/have useful aoe effects. Honestly…the cool down duration of spectral armor needs to be cut in half and the duration of its effects doubled. I’d even go as far as to say that It also needs to have stability added to its benefits. Its clearly meant to be an ability to give necros some staying power, but it is clearly missing that mark….pun intended. Two boons certainly would not make this utility OP and neither would halving its cool down. Five seconds of protection and stability every 30 seconds would certainly not break anything….especially considering the absence of a key boon like stability in our other utilities.

Spectral walk. I appreciate the flavor of the green trail this ability has, but I’d appreciate needed functionality more. Necros need at least one true escape mechanism…this ability is the perfect choice. Please replace the cosmetic green trail with stealth. Same duration as the green trail…just stealth instead. Completely solves the problem of lack of escape options.

I’m amazed these three utilities made it through this patch in their current state, but here you go….fixed!

Rennoko.5731:

Bads talk a lot on the forums though, so expect that to continue until they can go back to 2’ing us to death in WvW.

Truth

Nemesis.8593:

If they mess with terror it’s going to break a lot of condition builds that don’t need or want burning…

If they remove burning… what do you put instead of it ?…

anything related to power..or maybe even survivability! Maybe a significant decrease in the cd of spectral armor…maybe stability as well to spectral armor. Spectral armor currently grants one boon…for 6 seconds…on a 60 second base cd…I think an improvement is not out of the question. Two boons instead of one is not going to make it OP. Maybe even add some might stacks to SA so that it can legitimately compete with wells in a power build.

Nemesis.8593:

Oozo.7856:

Tommyknocker.6089:

As a powermancer that uses neither fear nor fire I approve the added survivability I won’t have to give up anything for.

Yeah, some good suggestions in this thread so far for power necros. Increase survivability and add burning to axe on crit. :P

Burning to axe ?… a condition to a power weapon… that makes a lot of sense…

I think adding burning was the mistake. It doesn’t fit with the death theme of necros and we could have gotten the same increase if they boosted the damage of our existing conditions…or even if they made torment stronger for us. I also feel that dhummfire is out of place as a grandmaster trait in the power tree.

I think terror is fine just like it is. Everyone is crying about it, but the duration is so short (less than 2 seconds base) and its breakable by stun breaks. They just spread stun breaks out to more abilities…I don’t see the issue here.

I think the cool down on spectral armor is still to long. still 60 second base cd on spectral armor…for 6 second duration?!? All it gives is life force when you take damage and protection for 6 seconds. I think the cd needs to be half of what it currently is AND provide stability.

Despite all the QQ, I think spectral wall needs to be buffed actually…it should block projectiles…hence the name spectral “wall”. Otherwise, just have it be a ground field like wells.

Spectral walk could use tweak too. That green trail is decent for flavor, but I think necros could stand to have at least one decent escape mechanism…change that to stealth instead of the green trail..at least that would be something functional and give melee necros and escape.

Oh yeah…cleave for axe and dagger please!

Nebiros.4801:

If necromancer had these skills from the get go we would not be considered OP. The main problem is vast majority of specifically wvw players have never lost to a necromancer and now they have. Player in my guild was raging yesterday due to first loss ever to a necro and was screaming OP. That mentality is ramped in all the gw2 forums. Next patch we will most likely be worse off then before. So many are so accustomed to owning necros they will rage until that is back to the way it was. This is based on wvw I have never spvp.

That’s what happens when developers forum balance instead of doing play testing.

spoj.9672:

The only type of weapon we dont have an option for is melee cleave.

^ This ^

I’m not understanding why necromancers do not have a melee cleave when we clearly have melee weapons.

Azraeel.1238:

The best fix would be for our Axe to do a cleave damage.

100% agree. Its a bit ridiculous that our melee weapons are only single target when so much of the game is fighting multiple targets…and every other class’ melee weapons hit multiple targets.

foofad.5162:

ODB.6891:

Setun.4368:

foofad.5162:

I haven’t run Altruistic Healing since November. Don’t need it, don’t want it, enjoying the buff to Greatsword Power when I’m not busy demolishing things with sword/shield and staff.

So, y’know.

Learn to play, and the build diversity skyrockets.

Amen brother.

+1 to the pair of unskilled and clueless tools. Make sure to get that wool sheared off yourselves so you look good after this awesome patch.

Lmao. Since when did not needing a crutch like AH make me unskilled? I’m not the one having issues building my character away from Altruistic Healing.

Pretty sure you are so clueless that you managed to miss the point of every post in this thread. The entire point of the advertised build diversity was to get people to do something different than what the majority has and still are doing. That being 30 honor/30 valor builds. The fact that you keep specifically talking so much about not needing AH (despite my initial post not even mentioning it) makes me think you are actually an AH user. I don’t, have never, and will never trait any into valor and i’ve only gone as far into honor to pick up EM. This thread has nothing to do with my ability to build my character…my character has been built and is built for dps with a little thrown in to honor for EM. This thread was about the lack of the advertised build diversity when it comes to guardians. The current set up for guardians remains focused on GS/hammer/staff/mace. This patch just reinforced that majority instead of promoting different choices. It didn’t even promote exploring zeal for anyone other than GS users (zealous blade).

Once again….+1 bro