Guild Wars 2

I’m hoping against all indications, that they add more control over who/what gets in your party when using the lfg tool. This is one of the primary complaints about this tool so far. Zerks getting low damage joins despite advertising for zerks. Low damage groups getting zerks, who then subsequently die from getting focused due to aggro (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro) mechanics targeting zerks over low damage players. I’m just hoping there are some filtering capabilities being added to the lfg tool to fix this…just an indicator of the highest stat of a character by the class icon.

Scenario:

No one runs fractals anymore because the rewards are garbage.

Response (bait and switch):

Inform player base that you have increased rewards.
Increase rewards for one day.
Lower rewards below previous level afterwards.
Profit from the players’ delusions that rewards have increased.

Carpboy.7145:

Zerker is still the best option. Now its just even more important everyone is full zerk

I see the previews of the april patch has the next (currently locked) section about LFG. Crossing my fingers there will be some kind of indicator of gear type included in the LFG tool. Wishful thinking I know lol.

I think it is just backwards that the materials needed to progress in fractals are not available from actually doing fractals. I think dragonite ore should definitely be one of the rewards from completing fractals.

The content in this game needs to stand on its own merit. Players shouldn’t be extorted into doing open world zerg events if they don’t want to do that content….especially to get required materials to do the content they do enjoy. If they want people joining open world zergs, then they need to make that content more enjoyable.

I personally don’t mind doing temple runs, but I dislike having to either wait around for someone to organize one, organize one myself, or buddy up with someone who runs them….just to get the required materials to do a completely different content type. My preferred play style is to just log in whenever I feel like it and make some progress on my characters at my own pace….not log in and camp out waiting on someone else.

I think 10-15 dragonite ore in the end chest of the last fractal run daily would be fair. Especially if maybe it was only available in higher level fractals…maybe the same levels as mistlock instabilities. Players who do higher level fractals are not that large of a segment of the game population that it would negatively affect attendance in open world zergs.

mrauls.6519:

If this also affects the Guardian I might actually really like this trait o-O

I’m trying to find a way to like this trait as well. If it does not apply aegis back to the guardian as well…then its garbage and not worth giving up other options in other trait lines. I’m already not liking having to give up everything in virtues and honor to get this as a pve dps guard. Also not liking the lack of swiftness/aegis options on meditations. Giving up all the utility of virtues and honor, giving up cd reduction on shouts (swiftness and aegis)….just doesn’t seem worth it for something that probably won’t even apply aegis back to the guardian.

On top of all those losses…getting this trait requires maximum investment in the same stat that is getting the nerf hammer in the same patch.

Rym.1469:

To be honest, I tend to spend over 30 seconds non-stop in Deathshroud pretty often with my build, it’s not an issue.

I think the problem might be Deathshroud not appealing to Condition necromancers. With Vital Persistance you can stay in DS, even under some pressure, for pretty long time. But you won’t maintain condition damage. So it sucks balls.

The other option is Power variation. While Condition version has very good stat combo for Unholy Sanctuary/condi play (Toughness, Condition Damage, Healing Power), Power version can either go for Zealot’s which totally destroys your survival aspect or Cleric’s. Second option, when having stats allowing you to survive, doesn’t allow you to put any pressure. It’s worse than Cleric Guardian and has worse healing. You can spec for Deathly Perception, maybe get some precision.

But here comes the Ferocity change. People haven’t realised yet that the spec that is getting hit the most game-wide is Power Necromancer with Deathshroud build. Since we have 100% uptime on criticals and very long Shroud, patch reduces our damage by ~30 in PvE and WvW.

We have to wait anyway, but if they want to make one step foward, they should think who may use things they bring.

I didn’t even see this coming. The powermancer getting the worst nerf from this ferocity change. I’ve been holding on to my necro…trying not to delete..but it just keeps getting worse.

“One of the main goals for balance in Guild Wars 2 is to support a wide variety of builds that cater to different play styles. The current implementation of critical damage works against this. Put simply, if critical damage-stacked builds are more effective than other approaches, the build diversity decreases. As we work to increase support and teamwork between players throughout the game, we examined how we could change critical damage to retain it as a fun and viable approach to build-making while also allowing other builds to shine.”

Okay, this is my issue with this. How is the ferocity nerf going to increase build diversity? The only way things in this game get done is for stuff to get killed. That means damage. Nerfing damage in any way does not increase the effectiveness of tanking or healing.

The aggro mechanics (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro) in this game actually targets melee zerker builds…not bunker/healing builds. This means that low damage/high survivability builds sole purpose is to rez other players…as they can’t actually tank anything. There would be less need to rez if stuff died faster. Rezing is more effective if multiple players helped in the rez anyway…versus traiting for survivability with low damage (what if no one needs a rez?).

Healing in this game is extremely ineffective by design. Extremely low healing coefficients so that gearing/traiting for healing power is very inefficient. You can’t heal anyone out of a downed state. As far as I can tell, this is intentional so that players are accountable for their own survival and contribution. It is clear that it is more efficient to kill the enemy quicker than focus on healing. Healing skills restore health at a much lower rate than actually killing the enemy faster ( and thereby avoiding the damage altogether).

This brings me to the question of how the ferocity change actually makes build diversity improve. Ferocity clearly does not improve the damage output of taking tanking/healing gear…as those gear sets do not even have critical damage/ferocity to begin with. There are no accompanying changes to increase the damage output of soldiers/clerics gear. If anything, this means less tolerance for low damage gear. Now that berserker has been nerfed, then there is a need for more damage output to compensate…not less need. How has this increased build diversity? How has this made soldiers and clerics builds needed in pve? The only way I can see those gear sets being needed in pve is to make more scenarios where beserker geared players is one shotted repeatedly…making that set invalid. You would accomplish the same thing as we currently have by doing that…making specific gear sets invalid in pve.

The only scenarios I can see where this change actually makes a difference is if you:
1. Make soldiers/clerics able to survive one shot mechanics
2. Make the core game mechanic of dodging no longer effective

If you do these two things, you just invalidated all your game mechanics, removed the element of player skill, and invalidated the most popular and effective gear set.

Honestly, the “no guard” posts are highly likely due to the plague of soldier/clerics/celestial staff camping guards. I play a guard as my main character (full zerk with the exception of my rune choice…too cheap at the moment to finally upgrade to scholar) and I hate seeing another guard in the lfg post. I cringe at the thought of a “support/staff camping, non zerk guard” being in the group.

I have yet to be rejected by any group on my guard, but I am highly selective on which lfg post I will join. I’m picky about the group composition. I won’t join a group with all heavies. I won’t join a group with all light armor. I won’t join a group with a necro or a ranger. I won’t join a group with more than one thief or more than two warriors. I won’t join a group with more than 1 guard already in the party. I won’t join a group that is too aggressive on the party restrictions…those are usually groups that don’t know the value of certain classes. I won’t join a group asking for a specific class as they are usually wanting to make demands of what I do.

I love having elementalists and mesmers in group because they bring a lot to the group in terms of utility and dps. Heavy armor characters have absolutely nothing to do with removing any fun from anything. I play my mesmer the same way I do my guard and my warrior…melee and stacking (in a fight that it makes sense to stack on). My mesmer actually has more survival than my guard in melee with blurred frenzy, reflects, higher base hp, boon spreading via signet of inspiration.

The only thing I can imagine the OP post being about is playing an under balanced class in pve (ranger or necro) or trying to play ranged combat in a game that is designed to favor melee combat. Neither of those two things has anything to do with heavy armor.

Because I hate puzzles and CC happy mobs. Clear recipe for me having no interest in TA Aether. I cleared it a couple of times when it was new…no interest in a return visit.

CnaeusDane.2938:

So basically you don’t have an answer so you’re trying to ignore the problem. Hmm.

No. I just found that your absence and the resultant absence of hostility, name calling, trading of barbs was refreshing. I notice your immediate return also included some not so subtle barbs and would appreciate it if you would honor your previous commitment to ignoring me.

CnaeusDane.2938:

“The design of this trait is clearly a compromise with damage and sustain…are you really disputing that? Are you really disputing that it does an entirely ineffective job in the sustain part? Are you disputing that damage oriented guards are lacking in sustain to a large degree…especially with the incoming vigor nerf?”

Right there you just asked me if I was disputing that damage oriented guards are lacking in sustain to a large degree. If I’m disputing it, then I’m disagreeing with it. If I disagree with it, then your stance is the opposite, which would be “Damage Oriented Guards are lacking in sustain to a large degree.” Pretty sure that’s how english works.

Didn’t you say you were ignoring me?!? Please do it already.

CrazyCanuck.4265:

Yeah, idk, I’m of the opinion that it should just offer something else entirely. Not try to compete with other traits, but rather offer something unique that the guardian is lacking, hence my suggestion for the addition of a soft CC. The problem I have with it adding to something the guardian can already do pretty well with other traits is that the trait will either be so minimal that it will be worthless (as it is now), or it will be powerful, and when combined with those other traits will lead to overpowered capabilities. I don’t really see any middle ground that can really be achieved between it being useless and it being overpowered due to the already strong sustain that a guardian can achieve. I open to discuss other suggestions that you think might be more reasonable than the OP though.

That’s where this gets difficult. I imagine ANET is having this same issue. There isn’t much, in regards to functionality, that guardians do not already have. Its going to be a tall order to introduce something new to guardians.

At best there could be a reorganization of how we gain access to things we already have. For example, every guardian in pvp wants some type of snare…and with good reason. We already have chill…but it is extremely restricted by where the talent is placed (glacial heart) and is only available via one weapon. Changing that one talent (moving it to a more accessible location and opening up weapon choices) would solve that problem. I was thinking the same thing about protection with zealous blade. Instead of having to have a hammer/mace…or relying on long cd shouts/ traited VoC, maybe give some small percentage of uptime (via critical chance…to further restrict and limit it) from using zealous blade. Other than things like this…I am at a loss too.

I just know that I would never choose the current zealous blade over either absolute resolution, unscathed contender, or master of consecrations in virtues. As a guard with zero in valor and only 10 in honor…there would have to be something seriously juicy in zeal to make me go beyond 10 in zeal. That opportunity cost just makes me think that maybe zeal does need something powerful…especially considering that it would involve a serious trade off to drop anything in honor/virtues to get it.

CrazyCanuck.4265:

Imo it is there purely as a dps increase for greatsword, that also gives you 200 power for going 20 into zeal. Do I think it is a minimal dps increase? Of course it is. Do I think it could have more functionality that would make sense for it being in a dps line? Of course I do. Is it the only weapon specific trait that is like this and also requires 20 points into a trait line? Not at all. Quick example off the top of my head. The only trait that a thief has for shortbow is a simple 5% damage increase with 0 other functionality that requires 20 points into Shadow Arts to get. The point of these traits are not to be keystones to hinge a build on. They exist to provide a little extra then what you would get otherwise, and generally only worth taking if you are going for something further in the line, or just want the passive bonuses that line has to offer.

I can understand that argument and rationale. I am of the opinion that a 20 point trait does need to offer more…just like you said. That’s why I think it does need to provide something competitive to choosing a trait in a different line. Currently the opportunity cost is just too much. That’s my whole argument today…that it attempts to give some amount of sustain…but fails to do so in any competitive fashion to the alternatives. I think that the other classes need the same consideration.

CnaeusDane.2938:

Are…. you completely kittened? I have already publicly stated, if not in this thread, that zeal is the guardians worst trait line. I already said it could use some love, already gave a suggestion. You also told me that valor doesn’t have proper sustain yet list Soothing Air, Burning Fire, Restorative Strength, Great Fortitude, and Building Momentum as proper sustain skills in DPS trait lines. As far as PvE I already stated my concerns about the balance giving the OP 300-400 suggestion, stated PvE should not be broken to balance PvP, and stated I’ve played every aspect of the game and take all parts of the game into consideration. Yet you’ve completely ignored everything I’ve said and decided to try to make a “point” that is the exact same as everything I’ve said, which you’ve ignored. You are what’s wrong with this game right now. You’ve ignored every thing I’ve said or just flat don’t understand it and sit there trying to tell me I’m wrong. I have to wonder how long you’ve played this game, as your trains of thought generally indicate to me that it hasn’t been long enough to learn all the mechanics. I’m just gonna go ahead and ignore you, as you’ve chosen to ignore every point I’ve made already. Good day, I’d say it was nice debating but really it wasn’t. It was you just spewing nonsense with nothing to back it up.

Hold up, now you are making up stuff. I never said that valor does not have sustain. I am also not reading through every post you have ever made to see that you already know that zeal needs work….because everyone knows that zeal needs work.

Go ahead, keep it coming. Keep attacking me instead of the issue. Throw in a few more insults and names. It really is getting to me…it really is lol.

I have not ignored anything you have said. In fact, I have been responding to exact things you have said. I have not been making the same points as you, I have been agreeing with certain things you have said and completely disagreeing with other things you have said. Again, I have no interest in searching for your posts outside of this thread…only responding to ones in this thread. You asked for examples of “strong sustain” traits in offensive trait lines from other classes, because one of your repeated arguments (in this thread) was that sustain traits do not belong in zeal (offensive trait line). I provided several from several different classes…to see you summarily dismiss what didn’t fit your argument…as expected. That is what can be considered ignoring what someone said.

Feel free to ignore me or continue to get mad with the name calling and insinuations.

CrazyCanuck.4265:

Your argument is flawed on the level that you are only concerned with one playstyle. You want to be able to do good dps and have high sustain. Whether it be pve/pvp/wvw, that is a single unique playstyle. So why does it not make sense that this single unique playstyle only have 1-2 viable builds and force you down 1-2 specific trait lines? If you decided you didn’t care about sustain and you just wanted max damage, your only reason for going into valor would be for the bonus crit damage/access to fury from meditations if you decided to run those. If you decided you didn’t care about damage and just wanted max survivability/sustain then you still have several build options, one of which being altruistic healing, but several of which will not need more than 10, or any at all into valor. Your playstyle is what is limiting the build choices, not any specific trait, and if you think your playstyle should be viable no matter where you spread your traits then I dont know what to say to that…

I am under the impression that ZB is designed to support that one play style. It is relatively deep into the zeal tree, where only dps players will typically be looking to go. I am not looking to have “high” sustain, but decent sustain..yes. I am looking to have sustain that is not a severe drop off from trading may 10 points out of honor or virtues to pick up that same number in zeal. Currently, it would make no sense to pick up ZB as it is a tiny boost to damage and no boost to survival….versus what you would pass up in any other trait line. That is the problem I see and that is not flawed logic. What exactly is ZB there for? If not to support a dps play style? What exactly is zeal there for? If not for a dps oriented player to choose traits from? Not quite seeing how my argument or logic is flawed. Yes, my build choices are limited by my play style choices…but it is further limited by overly weak traits…which is what this argument is about…how weak ZB is.

CnaeusDane.2938:

PvE is a joke in this game, so I don’t know why that’s even a factor, especially when I had already stated that the OP would break PvE and that skills should not be balanced in a way that is balanced in PvP but breaks PvE. When the technique to beating a dungeon is to stack, use FGS and run against a wall, something anet said they would not fix, it’s not even an issue though. So that leaves the forced PvP/WvW end game. And no, you don’t need to have 100% uptime on the weapon to increase the overall uptime to 100%. Hold the line, Save yourself, Virtue of Protection, Shield, add a weapon that adds protection and it all adds up. Did I ever say ZB or the whole zeal tree didn’t need an overhall? No, it needs some love. But to add more of what our other lines offer with little to no trade off is a problem that started at the beginning of the thread. It’s the problem that plagues the game as it stands. Easy to use traits/skills that are so simple that they carry the player. It’s one of Arken’s biggest complaints about classes, I know engi in particular. Passive skills that require no change in game play but make your character extremely powerful will never allow for balance. It’s why I already suggested increasing ZB to 40 base with .05 base. At 1000 HP it would increase to 90 hits, but also require 30 into honor + full clerics armor and/or trinkets. It seems you’ve mostly ignored all the previous posts in order to push your own agenda.

Ahhh…there we go with the honest admission…the dismissal of pve. Thank you for being honest. Lets just throw in every other class’ imbalances and over powered skills to obfuscate the ZB issue too. Lets throw a health serving of blame at me and point some fingers while we are at it.

My only agenda was to get you to stop for a minute and acknowledge that ZB is weak, it is a sustain type trait, and it could use some work. I was actually content just reading this thread and making my one suggestion until you decided to come out with guns blazing. Those comments tantamount to telling posters to reroll or get over it were just too tempting to pass up. Like I said earlier, I agree with you that the original numbers suggested by the OP for ZB were too high. I did read your previous posts about the percentages. I also read your subsequent posts dismissing any notion of sustain in the zeal line…which I completely disagree with. I also completely disagree that there would be little to no trade off when adopting zeal over lines such as honor or virtues. This conversation, however, was about ZB in particular. Which is an overly weak talent at what it is trying to accomplish, which is provide some measure of sustain to dps specs…which does not mean clerics gear or 30 in honor. That’s why I initially suggested it be crit chance based and grant protection instead…which I thought was a reasonable compromise. Especially since Hammer dps builds already have near permanent protection and are not considered OP.

CnaeusDane.2938:

I’ve played every kind of PvP this game has to offer. I’ve also played every form of PvE. I’ve got the best gear. I’ve gotten my titles I desire. Don’t try to tell me I have one viewing lens when I’ve referenced both TPvP, SPvP, and WvW. Just because a skill has healing attached to it does NOT mean that it’s suppose to be able to sustain you through a build. Oh, hey, Absolute Resolution increases my passive of Virtue of Resolve. Does that mean I should be able to only run that? No. The OP suggested 300-400 healing a hit. That’s essentially adding a healing signet to greatsword. Add protection so that Guardian has 100% uptime. Yes, that’s also just as bad as a healing signet. ZB as a trait is NOT designed to sustain you through a fight. It’s designed to give minimal healing so that you don’t have to worry about running as tanky as you would without it. Guardian has a trait line designed to sustain us plus 2 off sustain lines. Please give me other classes that have a strong sustain in an offensive trait line. I know most general traits of every class, and I can’t think of one.

Considering the majority of your justifications were pvp oriented ones…it is a fair assessment that you were only concerned with pvp ramifications. I think you are also thinking that sustain means complete survivability. That’s not what is being said either. I pretty much agree with you that anything near what healing signet gives is completely over the top. I think the OP agrees with that too now. I am also not talking about anywhere near 100% uptime of protection…despite that being exactly what the hammer gives. The main reason I even mentioned protection as an alternative to the miniscule healing currently attached to ZB is that zeal is not a healing tree and we already have enough healing options. You may disagree, but I still think ZB is where it should be and I don’t think there is anything wrong with having some sustain in a damage oriented tree. Just because we are ahead of the curve versus some other classes, does not mean this the wrong design decision. On the contrary, this is what the other classes need to have…that’s what leads to build diversity. Options that do not involve being forced down certain trait lines.

All this being said, I would be hard pressed to find any reason to abandon the points I do have in honor and virtues to go deeper into zeal as the trade offs are too severe…hence the reason for improvement in the zeal traits to make it a viable alternative instead of a waste of design/trait space. To answer your question…no, I don’t think you should only need to run absolute resolution to deal with conditions…that’s why we have utility slots for purging flames, etc…but I’ll digress on further responses to sarcasm.

You wanted examples of “strong sustain” in offensive trait lines:

Ele: Air – soothing winds Fire: burning fire
War: Strength – restorative strength, great fortitude, building momentum
Mes: Dueling – critical infusion, desperate decoy, deceptive evasion

Those are the classes I have played enough to know well. I consider all of those traits to be stronger than ZB. I am not trying to take these out of context as guardians have other options, but so do these classes. No trait exists in a vacuum.

I see what the issue is here. You are under the assumption that the only thing that matters is whatever mode of pvp you play. You are assuming the only dps build is a meditations build..since that’s the default dps build for pvp. Pvp tinted glasses. That’s why it hasn’t occured to you that the popular pve meta is GS+sword/focus. That being the case, it isn’t so crazy to consider that a player may use a GS and a sword. Of course your meditations build has survivability…because it is the toughness line with self healing built into meditations as well as damage. This introduces a bit of hypocrisy with you saying that dps specs do not need sustain…since your pvp oriented one does have it. The argument that since other classes are pigeonholed…then we should be too is a bad argument. The whole build diversity line they fed us a while back means that all classes should be working towards fixing bad trait lines. This is supposed to be a discussion on whether or not zealous blade needs improvement and how to implement…not about whether other classes need similar review.

The problem guards have in pvp is control. That doesn’t mean that the one trait in zeal that is about sustain needs to be made into control instead. Especially since that is clearly not the design of that trait.

“Your restrictions” that I was referring to are in regards to your adamant opposition to having any form of sustain in the zeal line…despite ANET obviously having it there…just to an ineffective degree. I was also referring to your comments about changing gear sets to accommodate, versus fixing an overly weak trait. Neither of those are the game’s restrictions any more than any underpowered trait on any class is a game restriction.

No one is saying guards aren’t in a solid place. What is being said is ZB is a weak trait for what it is designed to do.

CnaeusDane.2938:

If you don’t want to use the options available to you then you shouldn’t play that style. You act as if every class has free reign to run whatever traits they want instead of being limited to what works. Zeal is designed to deal damage, not sustain you so you can play a complete glass and survive. Every class has to have trade offs for certain things. I’ve always wanted to run sword shield which isn’t as optimized as other weapons for my hybrid play style but you make it work if you don’t wanna play certain things. Putting a little bit of healing on a skill doesn’t mean it was meant to be sustained. Why would they want you to be able to run full glass and just heal up with one trait?

Its funny how you try to make it an all or nothing choice. You are doing your best to ignore things like the radiance tree offering blinds for sustain….while also being a dps tree. Ignoring that valor is a tree that also offers damage increase via its crit damage bonus…while offering substantial sustain via traits as well.

I’ll spell this out, since previous posters’ comments did not sink in, you have no right to force your set of restrictions on others. No right to tell others how to play. No right to tell others what weapon, gear set, or play style is appropriate. Your argument that somehow we don’t want to use the available options is pretty laughable. That’s like telling any player that has a legitimate gripe about an underpowered trait that they should just ignore it and use different traits…and never even bother to discuss the underpowered trait. If that’s how it worked…there would never be any improvements in this game…there would never need to be any balance patches.

Every class does have trade offs. Every trait line has trade offs. That being said, if the options available in those trait lines is so underpowered that it is a no brainer not to bother with it…then there is an issue. You act like traiting zeal would be no trade off. Look at what you would be missing out on if you don’t take honor, virtues, or even valor. Even ANET admitted to zeal needing work..that’s obvious from how many guards actually trait past 10 points in it. Its fine if you don’t want to use it and if you never plan on using it….if that’s the case…why are you even in this discussion about that trait? What does it matter to you one way or the other in that case? Is your sole purpose in this thread to tell others how to play or what they should/shouldn’t have? You have spent a considerable amount of time attacking the OP and white knighting a trait that is widely accepted as being under powered…why is that?

There have been several suggestions about how to improve this trait. The design of this trait is clearly a compromise with damage and sustain…are you really disputing that? Are you really disputing that it does an entirely ineffective job in the sustain part? Are you disputing that damage oriented guards are lacking in sustain to a large degree…especially with the incoming vigor nerf? I’m at a loss as to why you think that the answer to a problem is to ignore it. That is never effective.

CnaeusDane.2938:

There’s no reason to go into zeal for protection though when hammer has protection on auto attack and is an extremely solid weapon. If you don’t want to go into valor then honor with shouts paired with virtues is another solid choice. You need to manipulate your gear to adjust for the shortcomings of changing your traits however. Zeal is meant to be a power/dps line, not a sustain line. It needs to be more enticing of a tree either by offering more utility or by increasing damage but to offer sustain with damage is almost as bad as the decision to pair critical damage with toughness when zerkers or knights works so well with us to increase precision.

Not everyone wants to use a hammer either. You seem to have quite a narrow view of what should be allowed. Not quite sure ANET or anyone else shares that view as they clearly meant for zeal to have some sustain…since they created the existing zealous blade trait with healing on it. Not seeing why protection is a bad option for GS since it is apparently not a bad option for hammer or mace. Its not like there aren’t precedents for sustain options included in damage trait lines. This is no different. The only issue really up for debate here is the effectiveness of the one that is already included in the zeal line and how to improve it (since it is widely accepted to not be effective enough to even warrant taking it).

Just because one weapon is good..does not mean others should not be as well.

On a side note…boons are utility and protection is a boon.

I think guards already have enough heal options. I think it would be better to change zealous blade to a chance to grant protection on critical. This would give it more synergy with radiance and remove incentive for bunker guards to try and get it. Bunker guards are going to have a low critical chance already…so putting in a zealous blade medium chance (somewhere around 30%) to grant party protection would work.

Not everyone wants to trait valor to dps. This gives zeal a decent option…decently deep into the zeal line.

Deifact.3095:

As an aside… Its annoying having healing/buffing not contributing to events like DPS does. For example escorting in Lions Arch events I was healing the escort and got zero contribution which is counter intuitive.

Exactly as it should be if you didn’t even bother to hit any mobs during the event even once. If you didn’t even tag one mob, then that means you are trying to play a dedicated healer in a game that does not have dedicated healers.

Or they could remove light fields in general and replace them with something better…as it is almost universally agreed upon that light fields are bad as far as the bonus gained by using a blast finisher

What kind of sense does it make to provide the much needed sustain to DPS guardians….to only those that use a GS?!? I’m pretty sure any guardian that builds for DPS with a 1h sword or GS has the same low sustain issues.

I think Zealous Blade needs:
1. A boost to its base healing output
2. Scaling based off of power instead of healing power
3. To work for any bladed weapon (sword and GS)
4. To stay exactly where it is at master level
5. The minor traits leading up to it reworked to not be about symbols (maybe chance for protection on crit)

CMF.5461:

On paper, virtues do a TON!…..but in actual play I agree, I hardly notice them.

Virtue of Justice

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VoJ passive provides, in essence, an additional hit of damage the primary form of keeping both of our damage modifier traits active.

In reality, VoJ is not noticed because of condition layering/priority/over abundance in combat. I don’t need my own personal burn since there are plenty of other sources of conditions and burning available.

The extra hit also only scales with condition damage, so when our melee attacks go up to 1k-5k damage hits, our extra burning tick only does about 300-500, and start to contribute less to the overall picture.

More frequent burns will not fix this problem, as burning only ticks once per a second, so you can’t push out “more” damage per hit without increasing condition damage.

Yet changing it to a physical attack would make it susceptible to direct damage mitigators such as armor and blinds and such.

The intent of the mechanic is to give us more damage when passive, and to give the group more damage when active.

Possibly having it stack might on proc or provide 10% more damage when passive would help achieve the offensive idea in a way that can scale to different variables instead of just a static burn. I feel fury would be decent, but mostly overlooked in the long run with plentiful ways to achieve fury or crit chance.

Virtue of Resolve

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VoR is amazing on paper and the single source of sustain for guardians………but damage happens way faster than VoR ticks for, and again we don’t notice if it is on or off.

We want to avoid doing like healing signet and making it seemingly overpowered, but I think the mechanic is in the right mindset but could use more tweaking to work for players with less healing power but not be overpowered for players with tons of healing power.

The intent of this mechanic is to provide sustain and make up for our lower health pool. Possibly change it to replenish a percentage of incoming damage as a heal? Or leave it as is but increase the base healing done, but keep the healing power coefficient decently low.

Actively it should provide the group with needed recovery or sustain. Yet it on its own, is largely ignored as a heal. The biggest advantage of this skill is the traited condition removal and not the ability itself.

It’s active could probably use some looking at too, ignoring traited modifiers that make it worthwhile.

Virtue of Courage

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VoC is pretty much worthless as noted in earlier posts. Especially in PvP where incoming damage happens so frequently it is wasted away in meaningless attacks.

Having it proc every “x” incoming hits would provide some interesting defense, but that may prove too powerful.

The intent on this mechanic sort of blends in with the intent of VoR. To provide a defensive way to survive a fight, yet not through sustaining health, but instead by preventing damage in the first place.

I think the best way to provide passive defense by mitigation of damage would be to have it reduce incoming damage by x% while passive but keep the active as a group wide aegis. Additionally reduce the refresh time of this to make it actually usable, something like 30-60 second?

Sorry for wall of text Tying to reduce the visual impact of my post by hiding it under spoilers…but hope someone actually reads it :p

I particularly agree with the VoC change you mentioned. A persistent damage percent reduction would be substantially more effective and noticeable than a passive, one-hit, aegis proc every 40 seconds. The only issue is making that not overpower bunker guards.

I think the weak nature of VoR should be corrected by making absolute resolution baseline. This way there is no excuse for any guard to ignore clicking VoR. This also gives me a little freedom to trait outside of the virtues line more as a glass guard.

As far as VoJ goes, I think it is a mistake to encourage any guard to not click virtues. VoJ has extremely effective active effects when traited (might, blind, burning). The only issues are the duration of might it gives and the fact that our burning is taking the same slot as burning from other classes. They need to really fix that by making our burning be a non damaging condition….like make it actually have a burning type visual effect but actually be implemented as a chill. Of course they would need to adjust Zeal II to reflect that new condition as well. I think burning should be removed from guardians as a condition altogether as it is completely ineffective as our sole damaging condition that just gets overridden by other classes. That will allow them to actually remove condition damage from the radiance trait line bonus and replace it with something actually useful to guardians.

Even if these changes are implemented as they are listed in this thread, the barrier that makes me not want to go further than 10 in Zeal still exists…..symbol minor traits (unavoidable because they are minors). Please put something universally useful in the minor slots…not something that over 50% of our weapons do not have access to. For me to go beyond the 10 trait point mark in Zeal, there has to be something really worthwhile in the master level minor slot…something for a non symbol user (maybe something that lets me drop absolute resolution in virtues). The cost of giving up absolute resolution: 3 conditions cleansed for my entire group, retaliation on virtue activation for my entire group, regeneration on activation for my entire group, passive heal for me alone, and boon duration. It really has to be worth it to choose Zeal over that.

I like the changes to cleansing flame, but I’d still never use a torch in pve so long as the damage output of torch #5 is less than auto attacking in that same time span and it still requires me to channel.

gesho.9468:

Balefire.7592:

You let the Necro hit you repeatedly with a slow moving, long cast time projectile, that requires the Necro to have already built up life force, and can only be cast a set number of times before that life force runs out. Frankly, I’m not sure what to tell you.
Did you dodge? Did you use an invulnerability/block skill? Did you CC the Necro? Did you damage the Necro to force them out of Death Shroud? Did you run away?

as i said, i thought he was condi and yes, i could have prevented couple, but 17k/6 sec? 17 in a row? just checked on my necro (which is traited for condi, not slow decay, etc), dished out 17 blasts per full lifepool. i dont have 17 dodges/interrupts/blocks/LOS, no. 17*3k – that can kill me x2 times over.

as for slow cast, doesnt really matter slow or fast if you have 17 of them. and as for slow projectile, on attached screenshot casttime is almost over and still there is no visible sign. again not that avoidance matters much, there are 17 more coming.

Let me stop laughing long enough to remind you that damaging a necro in death shroud decreases the available life force pool to do those life blasts. Therefore if you were doing anything…then there would not have been 17 (or however many there actually were) life blasts. Let me also remind you that any CC or interrupts you did would definitely affect the outcome as well as life blast is not instant cast…not particularly slow imo, but not instant cast. In short, you are going to have to do more than beat his life blasts up with your face to have a legitimate complaint. This is like when everyone flocked to the forums to complain about standing still taking warrior hundred blades to the face without dodging.

Saint Scarlet.2906:

Astralporing.1957:

laurel vendor is different. There are no dungeon vendors. There’s no Fractals entrance… need i go on?

Well if you go into the fractal entrance you’re leaving the area so has no relevance. As for dungeon vendors, do you really use them that often that you need them right beside everythng else because it’s so difficult to click a button.
You’re complaining just for the sake of complaining. Anet did what they said, they moved everything to the Vigil keep that was unique to LA. Is it their fault you’re too lazy to click a button to go somewhere to get something you need.
Why don’t you stop moaning and start being proactive. Now is your chance to decide where they move everything to, they are letting the players choose where the next hub will be so make a case for somewhere that has everything laid out better.

1. What you do after entering the fractal instance is not the point…that is what has no relevance.
2. How often you use a dungeon vendor is also not the point. The point is when you do actually use the dungeon vendor and the convenience that experience versus what it was before this cash grab.
3. It has nothing to do with “clicking a button”. It has to do with having to wait to load into a new zone, away from things you may have been waiting on (fractal group forming maybe, temple run about to be announced in map chat maybe, dragon spawn announced in map chat, etc), and then wait to load back to where you started…versus the convenience we used to have pre cash grab.
4. You are the one moaning about stuff you clearly have not thought through. There has been no request for input on any of these changes or any indication that any input provided will make any difference. The person you responded to was doing just that…providing input/feedback on how this is not acceptable and how it should be corrected. This makes your statements make zero sense.

I wouldn’t really have an issue with this change if the functionality of lion’s arch was preserved at one location, versus having to load back and forth across diff zones. It would also be necessary to have a global chat channel to compensate.

Charming Rogue.8071:

If it wasn’t for the rich iron nodes it would’ve reached 10s+. I’m just glad it’s iron and not cloth.

Cloth is more ridiculous than iron currently. Silk and Linen. Bolts of Damask….

Cloth is a pain because you cannot farm it directly…no nodes. Of course I am experiencing the “best” of both worlds. Armorsmith. Deldrimor steel ingots and Bolts of Damask. Deldrimor steel ingots require a double dip on iron ore for steel ingots and for iron ingots. There is no way I would spend the amounts of time required running around the maps for the tiny amounts of iron ore that I could get via farming. Much more efficient to just speed clear regular dungeons and use the gold to buy the mats. Iron ore currently 2s 47c and silk currently 1s 37c.

Bombsaway.7198:

Phenn.5167:

“Lazy” is balancing the entire game with only PvP in view, which ultimately results in a big “screw you” to the PvE metas struggling to make something horribly broken work.

I remind you that the unique feature of this game was indeed PvP and it was always billed as such (the core or heart of the game). It is a GW game after all.
Just like an ESO games will default to having a clean UI with an immersive feel.
A DAOC game will likely focus on WvW.

Yes, the PvE is quite good here, but that was not the “shtick” of the game.

While that may be true, PvE is where the majority of their customers are. Whether it was the intended focus or not, they would do well to remember this reality when balancing the game. There are a lot of abandoned MMOs that did not acknowledge this.

You really need to make a distinction between pvp and pve environments in a request like this. That is undoubtedly having a huge impact on the responses you are getting here…including my own. My response is solely about pve.

1. Necromancer
2. Ranger
3. Elementalist

Necromancers need a desirable power/cleave/melee set up for dungeons/fractals. They need mobility and the ability to negate one-shots. Please make different versions of death shroud (example: melee version, ranged version, condition version)…this could be a similar functionality to elementalists atunements or guardian virtues. Necromancers need viable alternatives to wells. Perhaps improve functionality and shorten the cool downs on spectrals to compliment a melee play style.

Rangers need something to make them desirable for dungeons/fractals too. Not quite sure what that is yet. Maybe very similar to what necromancers need. This current “bearbow” epidemic is a problem.

Elementalists need what you guys keep saying you are trying to give them. That is the ability to not have to go 30 into arcane and water to be able to have reasonable survival. All you accomplish by moving needed traits that deep into arcane/water is to force the exact opposite of what you say you are trying to accomplish. Maybe bake some of those “mandatory” traits into the class instead? The cool downs on elementalist survival utilities like arcane shield are also a bit prohibitive.

Carighan.6758:

Zardul.3952:

@ carighan

I’d prefer if ascended was exactly same as exotic stats but had better visual effects

Yeah, but “better” is very subjective. I doubt they could find something which would remotely please everyone, especially given how much whining there is about the three fluff legendaries, already.

Otherwise, that’d be the best idea ofc.

They could have at least provided a few skin alternatives for ascended items. Maybe a skimpy, modest, full body burlap sack type deal for armor pieces. Maybe some alternate textures for weapons.

Painbow.6059:

ODB.6891:

The only thing I would say about this set up is that light fields are bad in fractals/dungeons as they block more useful combo fields. Fire fields = might, water fields = healing, ice fields = frost aura, ethereal = chaos aura …compare that to light fields = retaliation. All those other fields are way more useful than light. Retaliation is very weak after ANET nerfed it. I hate seeing a guard with hammer or staff in fractals because I know they are going to block those other combo fields and prevent more optimal effects as a result. Its really annoying when you see that fire field and just before you can pop a blast finisher in it, there goes that light field and you get retaliation instead of might stacks. You see a water field and teammates are low on hp, you get ready to pop your blast finisher and get retaliation…

You are right about light fields being annoying but permanent team protection and high aoe damage is what makes the hammer the strongest weapon for fractals. To be honest your team should pre stack might or you could lay down a fire field prior to the battle

All of that assumes the group is not a LFG pug. There is no real coordination in pugs. There is no assumption that anyone will hold off on trolling me with a light field as soon as I drop my fire field…even before I can immediately cast my blast finisher right after dropping the fire field. What I generally do is try and step to the side and dodge their light fields and then do my fire field+blast. Alternatively I try and wait until a light field has just faded and then do it. The most prevalent thing I do however is try to avoid grouping with staff and hammer guards though…I really wish they would do something about light fields so this wasn’t an issue.

spoj.9672:

A channel skill like whirling wrath would be nice.

Yeah…I could get with that…short and high damage in melee range. Good risk vs reward balance.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Uhhh why shouldnt necros have channels? That is a large part of my damage. What would you replace it with?

I think “melee” shouldn’t have channels…not necros in general. I think this because the nature of melee combat means you need to be mobile to avoid one shots in this game. I think they should be replaced attacks/abilities that give more mobility (leaps, teleports, blocks, etc). I wouldn’t mind a very short channel if it also was accompanied by invulnerability (on a melee move)…like blurred frenzy on a mesmer.

Lindbur.2537:

ODB.6891:

You realize I am speaking from a game play and functionality context. I am not being rude to you at all. You are dismissing a valid functionality/game play issue with lore/flavor. You are adding things that have never been stated as reasons, for the sole purpose of excusing the oversight/issue. I could say that you are being rude in that regard. Think about where I’m standing. Your initial response about blind could be interpreted as sarcastic (in fact I did interpret it as sarcastic or an attempt to seem clever). Especially how you managed to ignore the entire post I responded to and only focused on giving a lore/flavor excuse as to why blinds were excluded. I could respond with a “way to go” statement, but I will not.

Alright, I apologise, but allow me to explain my reasoning that I should have made clearer to begin with.

You see, from a in-universe perspective, it’s understood that dredge cannot see to begin with and that they rely on hearing. Meshing this fact into actual gameplay, dredge are consequently immune to blind. Game design is not all about making mechanics – it’s also about meshing these mechanics with existing lore and stuff, it has to look sensible. Dredge rely on being able to hear their enemies, and I could give a multitude of reasons why just shouting into their ears is ineffective.

On another note, the dredge that are a pain make themselves incredibly durable and use multi-hitting attacks so frequently that a guardian’s blinds would be ineffective anyway. Considering the big picture – the two classes that have pulsed stealth, thieves and necros – necros are unpopular choices and don’t bring much support, while thieves are brought into this specific fractal for stealth. As it is right now sneaking past them is easier than blinding dredge and mass murdering them until ANet decides to cut the number of dredge that show up at the bombs and clown car, which brings us back to the reason why this thread exists.

I will also apologize, my initial statement about flavor was a bit agitated.

I can understand the blind issue from a lore perspective, but it is broken from a functionality perspective. My glass guardian hates dredge. Core defensive functionality just stops working against them. I hate them so much that I pretty much skipped the zones with a heavy dredge presence and will not set foot into Sorrow’s embrace on my guardian.

The dredge fractal was barely tolerable with being able to skip the initial stages of the platform puzzle. Now they are forcing that to be done. I can understand that, but they should do what they clearly indicated they knew should be done. Shorten this fractal and remove some of the unnecessary mobs. Dredge mobs are inordinately tough and deal a disproportionately high amount of damage compared to other fractal mobs. This issue is exacerbated by blinds not working on them. You are right, there needs to be a compromise between lore and functionality. I feel the lore is already broken by mass invis/stealth working on them, but I am open to other ways to offset this. The previous poster’s suggestion to have loud sounds affect them is a reasonable compromise in my opinion. Maybe shouts/blast finishers do a 1 second daze to them…just enough to disrupt that ground based projectile thing they do and mitigate some of that damage.

Lindbur.2537:

ODB.6891:

Lindbur.2537:

Oh, you want more flavour answers?

ODB.6891:

Explain how mass invis works then….

MI is a veil, and considering a mesmer employs magic that affects your senses, I don’t think it’s hard to extend this capability to exclude hearing as well.

ODB.6891:

Btw, who says players using blind aren’t being quiet?

Do you see with your ears or what?

Do you hear with your hands? That doesn’t even make any sense. You are just making up excuses for what is clearly a flavor excuse to begin with. Guardians use magic too. How is a mesmer’s magic somehow better or worse for the intended purpose than a guardian’s? Just stop it and admit that the excuse for stealth versus blind versus invis/veil is a weak excuse. Stop trying to stretch/extend something to be what it was never even stated to be.

You realise that I speak from an immersion and lore context, right? Before you start being so rude to me, think about where I’m standing. Your tone was very uncalled for.

I gave you an answer why dredge are immune to blind, and I get a sarcastic response. Way to go.

You realize I am speaking from a game play and functionality context. I am not being rude to you at all. You are dismissing a valid functionality/game play issue with lore/flavor. You are adding things that have never been stated as reasons, for the sole purpose of excusing the oversight/issue. I could say that you are being rude in that regard. Think about where I’m standing. Your initial response about blind could be interpreted as sarcastic (in fact I did interpret it as sarcastic or an attempt to seem clever). Especially how you managed to ignore the entire post I responded to and only focused on giving a lore/flavor excuse as to why blinds were excluded. I could respond with a “way to go” statement, but I will not.

Wethospu.6437:

Perhaps loud noises should “blind” or even stun Dredge?

Its good that you mention that. I specifically remember the personal story having a sonic weapon that the dredge were using. Without sight, that would mean they have extra sensitive hearing. I want my shouts to damage/stun them :p

Lindbur.2537:

Oh, you want more flavour answers?

ODB.6891:

Explain how mass invis works then….

MI is a veil, and considering a mesmer employs magic that affects your senses, I don’t think it’s hard to extend this capability to exclude hearing as well.

ODB.6891:

Btw, who says players using blind aren’t being quiet?

Do you see with your ears or what?

Do you hear with your hands? That doesn’t even make any sense. You are just making up excuses for what is clearly a flavor excuse to begin with. Guardians use magic too. How is a mesmer’s magic somehow better or worse for the intended purpose than a guardian’s? Just stop it and admit that the excuse for stealth versus blind versus invis/veil is a weak excuse. Stop trying to stretch/extend something to be what it was never even stated to be.

Lindbur.2537:

The reason is actually in lore – you can’t blind something that’s already blind, whereas stealth means to remain undetected by any means – even hearing.

Explain how mass invis works then….

Or do you have another flavor answer?

Regardless, its not a smart idea to make an entire set of mobs completely immune to one of the primary defenses for certain classes. Talk about a way to remove any desire to do any content involving that mob type.

Btw, who says players using blind aren’t being quiet?

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

moonlightseal.6927:

It’s like some people can’t do it without exploiting. …

It’s just disproportionally long compared to other fractals. It is literally the only fractal that is hated. All the others are fair enough.

But who decided to make dredge the most annoying enemy ever. Leave the fractals as is, but remove the endless spawning of them in certain spots, tone down the stupid protection they have, and let us blind them!

All of this! If stealth can work against them….why not blind?

I think they should fix axe and dagger before adding a new weapon. These two weapons need redesign.
1. There should not be a melee weapon that does not cleave.
2. Necro melee weapons should not have channeling…especially since necros do not have invulnerability or block effects.
3. Deathshroud and lich form should have different abilities when you equip a melee weapon.

That being said, I would love necros to have a scythe to melee with. Maybe make equipping a great sword on a necro change it to a scythe.

The only thing I would say about this set up is that light fields are bad in fractals/dungeons as they block more useful combo fields. Fire fields = might, water fields = healing, ice fields = frost aura, ethereal = chaos aura …compare that to light fields = retaliation. All those other fields are way more useful than light. Retaliation is very weak after ANET nerfed it. I hate seeing a guard with hammer or staff in fractals because I know they are going to block those other combo fields and prevent more optimal effects as a result. Its really annoying when you see that fire field and just before you can pop a blast finisher in it, there goes that light field and you get retaliation instead of might stacks. You see a water field and teammates are low on hp, you get ready to pop your blast finisher and get retaliation…

Carighan.6758:

Ofc not, you don’t get refunded when other things get nerfed either, do you?

That being said, an armour-reroll like with the MF changes would actually be pretty good. Especially because ANet probably wants to know how many people switch off the Berserker/Celestial armour after the change.

ODB.6891:

Because one condition type and a class trait have something to do with gear?!? Apples and oranges?

To be fair, it really was of similar scope. Rabid-specs still exist for Mesmers, but really not the same way as they used to before Confusion was defanged.

You are right, it was a similar scope. Just an indirect way of doing it and class specific.

selan.8354:

ODB.6891:

selan.8354:

Zardul.3952:

Will i get the chance to Refund all my Bezerk armour when Ferocity hits us?

im full bezerker…

wat? dude, when confusion got nerfed by 50% and bb trait with it, did i get refunded for my rabid gear? no. no one forced u to use berserker. asking for a refund because of a 10% nerf which is like nothing, is very childish sry.

Because one condition type and a class trait have something to do with gear?!? Apples and oranges? That was a class nerf. You can retrait at anytime for a few silver. That cannot be said about exotic and ascended gear. Yeah, no one forced anyone to buy any set. So that argument does not make much sense to me about “no one forcing him to use berserker”. No one forced you to use rabid. No one forces anyone to use pvt or clerics. That wouldn’t make it okay to just reduce the effective stat ratio after purchase on the gear by any large percentage without allowing an exchange.

At least make the response relevant and applicable before calling someone childish.

yes they do have to do with that as rabid gear was only used by mesmers that specced into confusion. the nerf destroyed the entire build, so where is my refund then? and i doubt that berserker gear will be refunded. otherwise they willl have to give everyone fthat ever used anything with crit a full refund.including knights gear and celestial.
this is not even a large percentage. u guys are panicing before the patch even hit.
when the confusion patch hit that was an over 60% nerf for the confusion mesmer and wayyy before pu was introduced. condition mesmers were non viable after that nerf. so yeah my rabid gear was useless then too.

Okay, lets run with that. They nerfed your character’s condition build effectiveness, which then drastically impacted the effectiveness of your gear choice. I can see that. So you wanted them to allow an exchange of gear right? So the current argument is that since they screwed you over…they should do that to everyone going forward instead of making a fair choice going forward?

selan.8354:

Zardul.3952:

Will i get the chance to Refund all my Bezerk armour when Ferocity hits us?

im full bezerker…

wat? dude, when confusion got nerfed by 50% and bb trait with it, did i get refunded for my rabid gear? no. no one forced u to use berserker. asking for a refund because of a 10% nerf which is like nothing, is very childish sry.

Because one condition type and a class trait have something to do with gear?!? Apples and oranges? That was a class nerf. You can retrait at anytime for a few silver. That cannot be said about exotic and ascended gear. Yeah, no one forced anyone to buy any set. So that argument does not make much sense to me about “no one forcing him to use berserker”. No one forced you to use rabid. No one forces anyone to use pvt or clerics. That wouldn’t make it okay to just reduce the effective stat ratio after purchase on the gear by any large percentage without allowing an exchange.

At least make the response relevant and applicable before calling someone childish.

Escadin.9482:

Aberrant.6749:

Escadin.9482:

Aberrant.6749:

Escadin.9482:

style.6173:

@OP: If ANET is basically going to admit they messed up and then implement this ferocity change, they should at least give everyone the ability to change armor on a 1 time basis. […]

the sarcasm is strong with this one….

I don’t think a refund will be necessary though. If they some sort of refund for lesser reasons already then fine, otherwise I wouldn’t mind either.

Must be PvE only or not have ascended gear… in either of those cases it’s very much deserved. WvW you want to min/max more than just one stat/aspect. Ascended gear is far more painful to replace. In either case it’s needed.

how will zerker not be the maximum dps gear anymore? care to explain?

Where did I say that?

OP is about refunds for zerker gear. If you wear zerker pieces in wvw they will just be as useful for their purpose post patch as they are now(relatively to the other stat combos). Feel free to correct me though.

Correction: The stat ratio has been diminished. It has not been rebalanced…just diminished. There has been no mention of any compensation…just diminished. It will still likely be the highest direct damage stat set, but the problem here is that some may not have chosen this set with the new stat ratio. Some may have opted for a more survivable or mixed set when considering the new level of performance.

The only reasons I can see that this nerf would be implemented in pve would be to slow down meta/zerker group kill speed of bosses in dungeons/fractals. The reason these meta/zerker groups work so efficiently is because of the speed, which generally allows boss kills before active defenses run out. That being said, this change seems to be aimed at making these meta/zerker groups fail unless they add more defensive stats. That alone is justification for allowing us to re-choose stats. All the above assumptions for the reasons may be incorrect as this nerf is probably about wvw or forum balancing though.

Essentially this is not what we chose. Its like buying a new car…you go shopping, you evaluate the alternatives, and you make your purchase based on that evaluation. If the vehicle manufacturer just decides to somehow remotely replace your engine with a slower one or make it require more gas per mile…would you really be okay with that?

I don’t think it is too much to ask that there be a one time choice to switch to a different stat combo for all items (exotic and ascended) that have critical damage as a stat. That seems pretty fair considering the post market nature of this change.

Yes, I’m sure that everyone without crit damage on their gear will chime in with the usual hate and make comments on how nothing is wrong and this is a bunch of QQ, but the minute they make a change like this to your stats….we all know these exact arguments will be made. Lets be fair about this and do the right thing.

Tyrannus Blade.3408:

Nope. Instead I’m going to be even less forgiving of people playing useless builds as they hurt a zerker party even more than before as they cannot be carried as easily.

This^

All of this is true. Its mind boggling that these game companies fail to learn from previous games and past mistakes. This game had the promise of actually not repeating the mistakes of previous games and other developers…simply by abandoning the trinity, but here we are with them failing in another key area of previous games. They will never be able to balance pve and pvp with the same rules. There are so many examples of how this has failed in the past…why keep trying to do it and end up chasing your customers away?

Okay, I clearly missed the unspoken theme of this vigor hate campaign. This is clearly about pvp and not pve. I couldn’t initially understand why anyone in a clear state of mind would think that low hp classes in pve need to endure more one shots, but upon further thought….it became clear that this was about difficulty killing specific classes in pvp (and by extension wvw).

I have no input on any pvp related situation, so my only comments will be to clearly state that you are talking about a pvp situation and to make sure to mention that this needs to be split from pve.