I’m still looking for it! I was pretty excited for the “largest balance patch ever”…until I saw it had zero effect on the hyped up “build diversity” of guardians as a whole. 99% of guardians are still going to be using a GS, hammer, mace, or staff. Honor and valor are still going to be the default trait line choices for guardians. I’m failing to see the build diversity here.
A guardian that tries to build for dps will still be pigeon holed/pressured into using a GS since you buffed it even more….without buffing the damage or other capabilities of the only other real dps weapon for a guardian…the one handed sword. Still no leap finisher for flashing blade. Still no snare on flashing blade. The change to the duration of vulnerability from blind exposure still does not increase the personal dps of the guardian versus powerful blades…although it does net an increase in group dps due to longer application of vulnerability to all blinded targets.
Zeal still has a significant and unavoidable budget of symbol traits….effectively forming a barrier to anyone not using a GS, hammer, staff, or mace. Scepter users are still playing darts with a blind fold apparently and torch users were given a placebo to think they actually got a buff.
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Nope, you got it wrong. The damage done by burning always stays the same per tick, depending on your condition damage. If you have enough burning duration to get an extra second of it (but a whole second!), then you get another tick from it. However, any additional duration is rather worthless if you don’t reach the full-second interval. It just helps for Fiery Wrath.
From what I understand, the newly updated torch trait in radiance (radiant fire), does not even extend the burning duration long enough to get even one extra damage tick? The default duration is so short that the 20% buff from the trait to duration does absolutely nothing but give an almost unnoticeable increase to the duration of burning…maybe a slight favor to fiery wrath and radiant power due to the duration and reduced cool down on the already low cool down of torch skills.
I’m not really seeing the build diversity they were advertising …at least from a guardian perspective. Honor got buffed, valor got buffed, radiance only got a 5 second increase in vulnerability duration and a tease at buffing the torch. I still don’t see a significant reason players are going to deviate from 30 honor/30 valor builds. I still don’t see a significant reason for players to deviate from GS/Hammer/Mace. Zeal still loaded up with symbols…over half of our weapons still don’t have a symbol…therefore still no reason to invest beyond 10 in zeal. One hand sword, scepter, torch, focus..and maybe more..still have no combo finishers. I’m just saying….I’m not seeing the incentive to branch out to either different weapon sets or previously avoided trait lines.
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The only changes that affect my guardian in all of this are radiant fire and blind exposure. The radiant fire looks good on paper until you think about how much of an increase 20% in burning duration is. Twenty percent of 3.25 seconds is nothing. The torch already has a very short cd on skills as well…so that isn’t much either…it wasn’t enough to take the skill in the first place..so 20% of 3.25 seconds burning duration was a waste of time. I think someone posted elsewhere, that that 20% burning duration still isn’t even enough to make voj tick a second time. I appreciate that they wanted to improve the torch, but its going to take more than that. They just keep making GS and hammer better and not really improving the alternative weapons like 1h sword. Blind exposure was a little boost for 1h sword, but I think the existing trait that it competes for a spot with (powerful blades) still outshines it.
“Trait Changes
First off, we’ve got a ton of trait changes coming up. Many traits that were less than desirable have been brought up in effectiveness, while others have been shuffled around and merged together to make room for new traits to be introduced. In doing this, we’ve created several new grandmaster traits for quite a few trait lines. For example: elementalists have a new grandmaster Air trait that allows them to recharge their air attunement, necromancers now have access to the burning condition, and warriors will have an option to remove conditions when using burst abilities.
With these changes in mind, we are going to be making a few builds a little harder to achieve due to their extreme effectiveness. Some traits will go up in tier while increasing in potency to promote build variation.”I see this as the foreshadow of a foreboding age.
For the next 5 days, give a loooooong goodbye hug to your favorite builds.
I would say EM going to grandmaster, but almost all AH builds run 30/30 anyways… maybe make EM go to Zeal to promote build diversity… would make more sense than it being in the honor traitline anyways lol.
I agree with that 100%…EM would fit way better in zeal…and move some of that symbol stuff out of zeal
Am i the only one who find stupid the 5 on torch? I mean, you spit FLAMES on enemies but they don’t burn them. ( – ____ – )
What kind of fire don’t burn? ¬ _ ¬’
I find that a bit ridiculous too….that a fire attack does not inflict burning…
In some of the Dungeons and Dragons DM guides, they talk about player types. They mention that player has a portion of min/maxer in them (the power gamer min/max, the social butterfly min/max, the non-combatant min/max etc)
I think Anet is going in a very right direction with what they’re planning. I’d like to see less posts of Zerker for everything all the time in PvE.
Also, considering every trait line is probably getting anywhere from 1-5 changes, I think we’ll see a lot of new builds crop up to compete., which is a win for me
There is a fundamental reason why “Zerker” is the preferred build type in pve. The reason is that killing stuff fast gets stuff done quicker. People will naturally follow the path of least resistance. If it takes less time..then that is the way to go. More time available either do it again or go do something else. That has been a constant in mmo gaming for as long as mmos have existed…extremely unlikely to change. The only thing that could be done to change that would be to make the encounters so difficult that everyone has to resort to a bunker build to complete them. I’m fairly certain that would then lead to a high amount of player dissatisfaction…especially since this is a casual game for the part.
I agree with you on the damage from the zeal line though. I’d prefer more utility to be added than any form of direct damage. Maybe some CC attached to symbols or something. An immobilize would be OP, but having all symbols cripple and or weaken could work.
I don’t think symbols should take up anywhere near the amount of traits they do in the zeal line…especially considering that over half of guardian weapons do not have access to symbols. It just makes zeal a trait line to avoid for any guardian that dares not to use one of the 3 to 4 weapons that do have access to symbols. 1h sword, torch, focus, scepter, shield…none of these weapons have access to a symbol. If anything…the symbol traits need to be consolidated and moved to a major trait slot..instead of occupying the mandatory minor trait slots in zeal. I’d even say some of the symbol boosters need to be baseline for the guardian class.
I also disagree on the point of zeal not needing to provide more raw damage. If someone wants to focus on damage on a guardian…why prevent that? I don’t see the logic in limiting the class to weak damage if they forsake the heavy survival trait lines, in favor of the power and precision trait lines. It may seem cool for flavor purposes, but in the end…its just an unnecessary limitation on the class. The prevailing theme of this game’s design seems to be freedom to build and play the way you want…an artificial flavor limitation like that seems to be the opposite direction in my opinion.
YYou* are trying to promote your vision of what the class “should” be
Uh, you nee to read that post he just made above.
If you have actually read the previous posts, you have seen that there are those who are trying to contradict this overall game design and telling players that guardians are only good for supporting. If you are supporting that argument that guardians are only good for support, then you are contradicting yourself in your reply to me. You said " No class has to be x, it’s just that some are much better at it than others." This is also not about “style”. Its about what is efficient. Killing stuff fast is efficient. Staying alive is also efficient, but you don’t have to sacrifice the ability to kill stuff fast to stay alive. In fact, guardians are likely the most survivable class without having to spend any trait points in survival…solely due to class mechanics. That alone frees guards up to gear/trait more for dps.
Here, I’ll highlight some points:
Its about what is efficient. Killing stuff fast is efficient. Staying alive is also efficient, but you don’t HAVE to sacrifice the ability to kill stuff fast to stay alive.
In fact, guardians are likely the most survivable class without having to spend any trait points in survival…solely due to class mechanics. That alone FREES guards UP to gear/trait more for dps.
I see him telling you what our class CAN do, not imposing his vision of what the class should do like you say
This is the very first thing s/he said:
Ok…just to start with, this whole wow mentality of a support class you guys keep spouting needs to go in the trash.
Later this charming individual goes on incoherent rants about “efficiency”, as if I cared about the numbers some munchkin pulled off a min/max chart somewhere. So yes, it does sound like s/he is only interested in the “right” path. Also, where did I say that you can’t make any build you want? Yet I’m the one supposedly putting words in other people’s mouths.
Where do you come up with this stuff?!? “incoherent rants, min/max charts, right path, munchkin”…I mean seriously?!? Are you on the WoW forums copying quotes? This is an entirely different game dude, based off of a different set of rules and strategy. No tank, healer, dps trinity here. There are no dps charts in gw2. You need to chill out dude…its pretty obvious (even to the other posters here), which one of us is ranting and just making up random stuff. Learn to admit when you are wrong graciously.
If you read for comprehension instead of what you want to see, then you will see that I said you were correct about there being different ways to play this profession. So no one said you could not make any build you wanted. That was my entire point…this class is not limited to being support for other classes. That’s what a “support class” is…one that is limited to only being support for other classes. Guardians are not that limited.
I’ll play your game here…apparently you are the type of person who gets mad when someone tries to open your mind to different possibilities?
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Yes, I read everything, and no, I’m not contradicting myself at all. You are trying to promote your vision of what the class “should” be, not me, and that everyone else is by extension “wrong”, showing how much you really value player choice. I couldn’t care less what you think is/is not “efficient”, which you try to claim is “logic”; you seem like the kind of person who would kick a ranger from a dungeon group for no other reason than that they’re a ranger.
Its cool that you want to put words in my mouth and to speak as if you know what everyone else thinks. I don’t have any vision of what the class should be. I can see how ANET designed the game…there’s a difference. I speak as to what the class is capable of, which anyone can see. That it is not limited to being a bunker build. I speak as to common sense that killing stuff fast is more efficient than killing stuff slowly. I’m sorry if you don’t agree with that. To acknowledge the words you want to put in my mouth…no I don’t kick anyone from groups…with the exception being offline players or those who stand in a corner waiting for the group to kill stuff for them. You have no idea what kind of person I am…least of all not from a few posts about a video game..but yeah..go ahead and keep making your unfounded assessments. I am not trying to “promote” anything. What I would like to “demote” is the idea that guardians can only be used when traited and geared for pure survival/buffing. You can buff your group on a guardian by default with zero modifications to traits (aegis, protection, stability, regeneration). Yes, you can also add condition removal to that via traits…but I’m pretty sure all of the other classes have condition removal in their traits and abilities as well. I’m also pretty sure I have never said that “everyone” else is wrong in any post I’ve made. I’m also sure that I’ve never said that others were wrong in choosing how to play their character. What I have said is that dps contribution is more important that pure self survival. I have also said that the guardian class is capable of doing more than support. I stand by those statements.
Ok…just to start with, this whole wow mentality of a support class you guys keep spouting needs to go in the trash.
GUARDIAN:
“Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.”That sounds pretty support-based to me. And no, I don’t appreciate being told that I should change my mentality just because I choose to play a certain way that you don’t. Like your own style? Great. Why don’t you go do that instead of showing that, actually, you are the one who doesn’t understand Anet’s vision? No class has to be x, it’s just that some are much better at it than others. You can play a condi damage guardian, just like you can play a support/tanky thief, it’s just that you could probably get better results the other way around.
I do exactly that. I do play my own way, which is exactly ANET’s design. The fact that you took that so personally shows exactly that you believe in that “support mentality”. Which means YOU need to review exactly what “mentality” and “support class” mean. This game design allows us to play each class the way we want, but you are correct…that choice may and can lead to sub-optimal results…when compared to another profession’s output in that same play style. You did a nice job of selective quoting by the way…leaving out the description that I also quoted of the engineer profession…they specifically did include the word support in that profession’s description, but that does not make engineers a “support class” either. Neither the wording of each profession’s description nor the individual balance tweaks that both constantly change, are enough to contradict the overall game design…which is player choice. The trinity is absent in this game for a reason…and its a good reason. People may have their feelings hurt by my opinion on bunker builds outside of pvp, but the logic stands and is indisputable. DPS is more effective in any pve environment in this game than building for pure survival. The only things that could make dps less effective are lack of player skill in dodging and completely ignoring all survival traits. All the HP, toughness, armor, and healing you can possibly get are not going to compensate for absence of skill.
If you have actually read the previous posts, you have seen that there are those who are trying to contradict this overall game design and telling players that guardians are only good for supporting. If you are supporting that argument that guardians are only good for support, then you are contradicting yourself in your reply to me. You said " No class has to be x, it’s just that some are much better at it than others." This is also not about “style”. Its about what is efficient. Killing stuff fast is efficient. Staying alive is also efficient, but you don’t have to sacrifice the ability to kill stuff fast to stay alive. In fact, guardians are likely the most survivable class without having to spend any trait points in survival…solely due to class mechanics. That alone frees guards up to gear/trait more for dps.
(edited by ODB.6891)
Damage guardian isn’t what a guardian is suppose to be. They’re the defensive heavy role that combines – a cleric and a knight. They do mediocre damage with high survivability. The guardians you are all complaining about are beserker kitten builds who do nothing but damage and can be easily dominated. I, as a tank/healer, can easily wipe the floor with such filth due to knowing how to play this game and understanding what to do. Damage guardian is nothing to be afraid of. A damage warrior has more hp/tank and damage. This goes for every beserker class except that of maybe a feather class. Which is a feather. Which has not been implemented yet due to being incredibly op.
Edit: I couldn’t care less if they nerfed the hell out of a beserker guardian. I think that’d be a buff and give a true name to guardians. Guardians – Tank. Warrior – Damage.
Pretty sure you are playing the wrong game. Do I even need to say what game it is that you are talking about?
Guardian Test
01 Do you think guardian is underpowered and needs more HP;
—— If yes, go to 02
—— If no, go to 0302 You have no idea how to play a guardian
—— If you are willing to improve, go to 04
—— If you are not willing to improve, go to 0503 You understand the importance of regen, dodge heals, aegis, protection, condition removal, blind, etc, go to 06
04 Read up on some of the builds and learn to use the myriad of mitigation abilities guardians have, a 13k HP guardian is more survivable than a 25k HP warrior, by a long stretch
05 Fail
06 Well done, now go out there and pwn
I enjoyed this way too much
^QFT^
Ok…just to start with, this whole wow mentality of a support class you guys keep spouting needs to go in the trash.
GUARDIAN:
“Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.”
That is the description of the guardian profession. I don’t see anything in that statement that limits guardians to being a support class. What I do see that clear indication that guardians have options to protect and defend others…nothing that says that is all they can do.
ENGINEER:
“Masters of mechanical mayhem, engineers love to tinker with explosives, elixirs, and all manner of hazardous gadgets. They can take control of an area by placing turrets, support their allies with alchemic weaponry, or lay waste to foes with a wide array of mines, bombs, and grenades.”
That is the engineer description…does that mean they are a control or support class because its mentioned that they can do those things in their class description?
The way I see it, ANET built this game in such a way as to avoid pigeon holes. No dedicated tanks, no dedicated healers, no dedicated support classes. Every class does all of those things in different ways and to different extents. That’s a primary reason I bought this game.
Back to the original topic, I think the hp level of a guardian is perfectly fair. Guardian survival is not based on heavy armor like some people seem to think. Armor type makes almost no difference in this game. Survival is based off of boons, HP/toughness, evasion, and condition removal. Guardians can have all of the above. Sadly, we have to trait pretty heavily for HP/toughness to be at any reasonable level, but that is necessary to prevent bunker builds from being unstoppable.
Condition removal is easily achieved with traits. There’s absolute resolution in Virtues and purity in valor. There’s signet of resolve, which every guardian probably uses anyway. There’s also inscribed removal in radiance. No shortage on condition removal on a guardian and not limited to one trait line.
My only issue with guardians is the zeal trait line. I don’t play bunker at all. In fact, I will never play a bunker build because I feel it is useless outside of pvp environments. Everything in pve favors high damage builds, in terms of efficiency. Kill it fast and move on to the next objective….versus taking 2-3 times as long and/or waiting on someone else to do it for you while you profit. Have you ever done a dungeon run with 4-5 bunker builds …after doing one with 4-5 dps builds? Huge difference. Zeal is supposed to be our power bonus line, but its loaded with benefits to symbols…that over half of our weapon sets do not have access to. I’d rather they make the symbol stuff baseline and put some non-weapon-specific survival traits there instead…to benefit dps guardians. Dps guardians are glass builds anyway and glass builds need to be highly mobile to survive. That is the opposite of standing still on top of a symbol. I’d imagine that would finally get some of these bunker builds to play something more productive.
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hmm thinking on how a targetless teleport would work.. so we would just teleport the corresponding distance in whichever direction you’re facing? how would that deal with slight ledges, etc? so we don’t get stuck etc.
would love that as well though!
Would be awesome, could work the same as the rangers great sword ability swoop…..an absolutely fantastic ability.
Elementalists also have a similar ability….just transports you a set distance in whatever direction you are facing.
- Zeal’s minor traits only take effect if your targets stand still.
- Zeal’s minor traits only work with 4 of the weapons.
- Zeal’s master and grandmaster trait selections offer very little in the way of increased damage.
- You always need some survivability, and Valor and Honor traits are great for that. You can make up the extra power with gear.
All of the above. Zeal also focuses on symbols….neither 1h sword, scepter, torch, nor focus has a symbol. This makes the zeal line a huge waste versus what you can get from other trait lines.
edit…forgot to mention shield…also no symbol.
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Remove the self root effect from Zealot’s Defense
Flashing Blade needs to be a leap finisher
Flashing Blade needs a snare/chill effect added
Flashing Blade needs to teleport you, even if there is no target
I run sword/torch and scepter/focus. I use a right hand strength build. My gear choices are all berserker. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUMQRAsf7dlYgCCHFyvDmIFSWhC06BBdQ+TVh4BTBGBfA-jwyAYrioRTYGiGRI0JvioxW5CS1Nsl3oprxUuER12bGtarOgIAmxA-e
Okay, I think I can take a hint as well as the next person. Its closing in on a week of this game being unplayable…without even a decent acknowledgement of the problem by ANET. So what’s the next game out with comparable features?
I do not have panda media booster installed on my computer either. I make sure to keep close control over any program installations. I don’t even install any browser tool bars…much less any random third party media programs. I even uninstalled most of the things that came preinstalled from the manufactuerer.
This has definitely expanded to pve now. I see zero responses to this issue so far by ANET and I see multiple threads ongoing about this and related issues. The only similar thread I see them responding to is with players not being able to purchase/download their game…no responses to players not being able to play the game they have already purchased….
I just started playing again and today after downloading the large patch I have been dcing all day. I would say about 15 times within the course of the day and 4 times within the past 20 minutes. It just kicks me back to the character log in-never all the way out. I’m able to log right back in and it doesn’t seem as if I am hitting a lag spike right before the dc-it just seems really odd.
The error messages says
The game client lost its connection to the server. Please wait before logging back in.
Code=7:11:3:190:101I have been seeing a few issues of lag such as trying to pick up a metal scrap my character will do it over and over again. Every now and then my combat skills will stay queued.
I am not having this issue in any other games such as WoW, Neverwinter, Rift, etc. and my internet seems fine when the dc happens. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated as I don’t see myself continuing to play if this persists and I was really excited about getting back into the game.
I’m having the same issue. It has been happening since the end of last week…at least that’s when I noticed it. Extreme input lag, where abilities stay queued for anywhere from 10-20 seconds…if they actually work at all. Issues with not being able to loot. Rubber banding back to my starting point when I try to run. Eventual disconnects with error 7:11:3:190:101. Its almokittennny that the message with that error pretty much tells you to not even bother trying to log right back in. I can’t play the game like this…can’t complete a dungeon due to constant disconnects and of course, when you are able to finally log back in…its either another disconnect, you are dead…eventually get ressed to get disconnected again, or you still can’t activate your abilities or loot. That’s all assuming your group hasn’t kicked you for being offline 3/4 of the run. This is even happening in open world pve now. There’s a growing thread on these same forums with this error code as the title…that is getting zero responses from ANET currently. Apparently there are multiple threads of similar experiences. I’ve even submitted the mandatory support ticket for this issue…
I just thought about doing a fractal run. I tabbed out and posted on gw2lfg.com and tried to tab back in….see the title of this thread for the error message I got!
This is a new issue for me as well. My problem began approximately on 5/24/2013…at least that’s when I noticed it. It was exclusively in dungeons initially, where I got extreme input lag when doing anything except basic movement and dodging. It then extended to the problems that everyone else here is mentioning…disconnects with error code listed in this thread title. I haven’t been in any dungeon except fotm since this started. Since this problem got this bad, I am also now seeing this issue in open world pve…no disconnects in that venue, but extreme input lag on skill activation. It can take up to 10 to 20 seconds at times…then responds appropriately a few minutes later. I am also running windows 7. My internet connection on my computer does not drop at all, only my connection to the game server when in a dungeon. I am still able to stream movies with no issues, so it is definitely not my internet connection. My ISP is charter communications. I generally play at times where there is minimal server load as I am on the east coast of the U.S., play on darkhaven, and play between 12am – 7am normally. I’ve almost given up on playing as I play dungeons primarily and cannot maintain a connection inside dungeons…between not being able to attack due to input lag, rubber banding when lag ends, and disconnecting during combat. Please fix ANET.
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Whoa, slow down there killer. Kind of unsure if that is directed at me or not tbh.
I’ll admit I only toyed with the trait in the mists and spvp here and there, so it didn’t seem like it lasted very long for each tick of burning, but I’ll go back and double check. 3 sec sounds like longer than I remember it giving fury for.
I’m all for making the trait more controlled and skillful instead of random. So that is my stance. Anything we can do to put the choices in the players hands so it is about what we did or did not do which causes a win or loss I’m all for.
It wasn’t directed at you, sorry if it seemed that way. I actually agree with everything you said. I personally wouldn’t take inner fire anyway as I get enough crit from radiance and gear already, but it would be nice if it actually worked like the tool tip describes…for those who would prefer to take perfect inscriptions over right hand strength.
If any of you actually take the trait you will see the 1 sec of burn to fury ratio is pretty small and gets a couple hits here and there as crits making it seemingly ineffective.
The fix they suggest is how the skill apparently worked way back when in beta, but was changed without having the tooltip updated to match how it works now.
By changing the skill to work how it used it, it would provide an on demand set of burst instead of random bouts of burst for more control of our own character and abilities. Maybe less fury overall, but more concentrated and when you want/need it.
Other classes have a cooldown or have to have a specific weapon equipped to have fury available on demand, possible have both effects active, 1s for enemy burns on yourself and 3-5 seconds on self activation with torch?
In the long run though, better use of more crit chance is found through gear and/or right hand strength. This trait mostly benefits builds with low crit chance and provides them more opportunities to trigger selfless daring, vigorous precision, and empowering might.
As far as cleansing a condition on yourself and the target, that would be extremely nice, but I guess the argument that we have a lot of condition removal already could be thrown in. I still would appreciate a change like that, even if I don’t use torch a lot.
I got 3s of Fury for each time burning was applied to me.
Fighting a Guardian I had permanent Fury and 8s left after I downed him.
Lot’s of other fights offer permanent Fury. Engineer, Ranger with traps, Longbow Warrior and very high uptime from an Elementalist.
So somehow another 3 seconds of fury when you activate zealot’s flame is going to break the game? Is it somehow going to create an imbalance in pvp or some kind of complication in pve? Your entire argument makes zero sense. You are wasting all this time and effort insulting people and making non sense arguments….just to try to play developer and tell other players what they shouldn’t have?
6/8 Professions can actively apply burning to you in a fight.
Guardian, Ranger, Engineer, Warrior, Mesmer and Elementalist.Necromancer’s can possibly apply it by converting boons into conditions.
Or 75% of your fights will lead to you taking burning damage, and gaining you Fury from the trait Inner Fire.
What you propose is to limit this trait to only gain Fury when someone wields a Torch and activates Zealot’s Flame but only leaves it passive.
So instead of having a trait that can be incorporated into many builds and all possible weapon combinations, you would rather it was limited to a single off-hand weapon, restricting it from the majority of builds.
So you want us to have less access to Fury. That’s your ‘improvement’?
I think you you need to scroll up and re-read what I and others have posted. Take a sedative and chill out. I’m pretty sure no one specifically mentioned pvp…as this game is not entirely about pvp or pve. Your focus on what other players can apply to the guardian, in terms of the burning condition, is not the sum total of the discussion. There is also no mention of limiting the effects of this trait to only triggering when zealot’s flame is active (meaning that just like it currently functions…the actual burning condition from outside sources would still activate fury). Read for comprehension ftw!
I started the discussion and I’m only thinking about PvP.
If you want to talk about PvEasy then make your own discussion on the Torch.
I couldn’t care less if you started the discussion or not. The original topic had no pvp focus and as such, I will continue to discuss this as I see fit…as long as it is a thread on an open forum for all players of this game. You may have created this particular discussion, but you do not own it. Your childishness is completely unwarranted. This is not a venue where you can take your toys and go home when you don’t get your way. Neither your hostility nor childishness changes the validity of any of the above arguments.
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6/8 Professions can actively apply burning to you in a fight.
Guardian, Ranger, Engineer, Warrior, Mesmer and Elementalist.Necromancer’s can possibly apply it by converting boons into conditions.
Or 75% of your fights will lead to you taking burning damage, and gaining you Fury from the trait Inner Fire.
What you propose is to limit this trait to only gain Fury when someone wields a Torch and activates Zealot’s Flame but only leaves it passive.
So instead of having a trait that can be incorporated into many builds and all possible weapon combinations, you would rather it was limited to a single off-hand weapon, restricting it from the majority of builds.
So you want us to have less access to Fury. That’s your ‘improvement’?
I think you you need to scroll up and re-read what I and others have posted. Take a sedative and chill out. I’m pretty sure no one specifically mentioned pvp…as this game is not entirely about pvp or pve. Your focus on what other players can apply to the guardian, in terms of the burning condition, is not the sum total of the discussion. There is also no mention of limiting the effects of this trait to only triggering when zealot’s flame is active (meaning that just like it currently functions…the actual burning condition from outside sources would still activate fury). Read for comprehension ftw!
- Make the skill cleanse 1 condition from yourself and allies at the start of the channel.
Absolutely endorse this change. As it is, I think most new guardians assume that’s what the skill actually does and then are disappointed to eventually learn otherwise.
I am also fairly disappointed on the lack of self cleanse from cleansing flame. The damage output and the channel time are a little lack luster as well, but I still like it for the aoe cone cleanse, the aoe cone damage, and the visual effect. I also expected it to apply burning to foes….considering its about 4 seconds of breathing fire on them.
There’s no need for Inner Fire to be affected by Torch #4.
There are plenty of sources of burning you will encounter when fighting players.
Another Guardian, Elementalist, Engineer, a Ranger with Traps or Torch and the Longbow Warrior.
In team fights you can have permanent Fury from all the burning damage that gets thrown around.In PvE you have access to gear with many more stats and food that all but removes the need for Fury as you can achieve a high crit build with good defenses.
Or gain Fury from the constant buffs your party is putting out.PvP is more limited.
This does just as good a job spelling out why it doesn’t need to work that way as it does emphasize the lack of reason not to have it work that way. So you know. If nothing else it would be more thematically appropriate for the skill to trigger Inner Fire even if the skill actually put the burning condition on you.
Saying that something is does not make it so. You did nothing to justify your point of view.
Activating Zealot’s Flame and having it apply the burning condition to yourself to therefore trigger the Inner Fire trait would be stupid.
It’s a poorly worded trait that could be solved by writing
“When you suffer from burning, you gain fury.”If you want Fury from the trait, go and get burned.
I’m sorry, but I see no logic at all in your stance against having this trait work like the current description implies. Poorly worded or not, the current description does not specifically state that it is triggered by the burning condition alone. It specifically does way, “when you are set on fire, you gain fury”. I don’t know how your guardian looks when zealot’s flame is activated, but mine sure looks like it is on fire..until I activate the second stage of that ability. Its not exactly like guardian’s have an abundance of access to fury already, so what’s your problem here? Your comments have gotten to the point that it seems like you are attacking the other posters about this with your comments above? Do you have some kind of personal stake in making sure to prevent this trait from working as it is currently worded? I’ll never understand people who get on the forums and start acting like they are supposed to be holding the line to prevent positive game tweaks that will have little to no impact on themselves. Its not like guardians are top dps among professions in this game, and that one trait will not change that either way. Worse case scenario…it will work as the tool tip describes?
On a side note, this is an open forum for all players of this game, so no one has to justify their opinions to anyone else. Only the developers actually get to decide if a change gets made or not. I don’t see any arena net credentials beside your posting name, so….
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While gear is a significant factor in survival in dungeons, it is entirely possible to run even semi tough dungeons like coe with masterwork gear. You don’t even need to trait away all your dps by maxing out honor or valor trait lines to be successful. You do need to adjust your utilities from time to time for specific encounters (Wall of reflection, stand your ground, etc) and swap to a different weapon occasionally. This game is about 80% based on knowing your encounters (when to dodge or use the right utility). I’d say the other 20% is probably gear.
Also don’t let others dictate how you play your character…it is yours after all…that’s why you are controlling it and not them. If you listen to some people, they will have you running around in dungeons holding their hands, so that they can completely avoid all of their own survival traits and utilities. ANET avoided the trinity in this game for a reason. What you choose to bring to the table as class “x” should be a bonus to the group, not your mandatory role. What would they do if there was no guardian in the group…just give up and disband the group? That being said, do what is smart (adjust your utilities/weapon/traits) as best fits the encounter’s needs…makes for a smoother run/less deaths.
I play my guardian as mostly dps. 10/30/0/10/20. sword+torch/scepter+focus. I run equal parts signets/shouts and tome of courage as my elite. My HP is on the dangerously low side currently, but I still clear all 3 paths of coe quickly in pugs..often with only a couple deaths…and that’s usually due to group wipes on alpha with people trying to kite him and ignoring instructions to stack and dodge. Its all about timely dodges, trait synergies, utility usage. My gear is currently all berserker..a mix of masterwork, ascended, and exotic. If I were to mix it up a little and throw in a few pieces of vitality gear…i’d probably avoid all deaths…but I like the challenge of surviving in zerker gear.
All that being said, you don’t have to run the cookie cutter 30 honor, 30 valor build to be effective. In fact, I question the effectiveness of that kind of build as it can slow down a run due to low dps….especially if there are others in the group running similar bunker builds. The most effective way to run dungeons is balls to the wall dps with effective dodging and utilities. The faster stuff dies, the smoother the run…just so long as you aren’t dying as well.
I’m fairly new to guardian, but I’ve taken a liking to the play style of the one handed sword+torch. So far, I’ve noticed some rather glaring deficiencies with the 1h sword:
1. Zero combo finishers (completely unable to take advantage of a combo field)
We have flashing blade, but it does not work as a leap finisher (it should).
We have zealot’s defense, but it does not work as a projectile finisher
2. The range on flashing blade’s teleport/leap is very short and does not snare
3. No symbol generated by any sword skill (inconsistent with the guardian profession)
The lack of a symbol generated by sword skills also means no boons generated
4. Zealot’s defense: short range, cancels on movement, only blocks ranged attacks, etc
Please replace this with a skill that generates a symbol
Having flashing blade drop a symbol at its destination would be pretty awesome…especially since this weapon does not currently have a symbol. Flashing blade also needs to be a leap finisher since we have zero finishers, to take advantage of a combo field, on the 1h sword.
Flashing blade and zealot’s defense both need tweaks in my opinion.
Flashing blade:
1. Needs to be a leap finisher…as 1h sword has zero ability to take advantage of a combo field.
2. Needs some reasonable damage…at least as much as an auto attack.
Zealot’s defense:
1. Needs to be usable while moving.
2. Needs to be a projectile finisher.
I think guardian’s have evolved past the point where everything offensively needs to be kitten because of our survivability…especially after this last patch with boon hate and attacks going through aegis.
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I like the idea someone else posted about longbow for guardians. I’d take that gladly as a 2h weapon. Essentially, anything except scepter. ANET could definitely stand to take another look at including some alternate weapon sets for many classes. Pistol main hand for mesmers, longbow for guardians, etc. Scepter seems to be a low quality weapon for multiple classes at this point. I’d actually like to see 1h sword get a symbol for guardians.
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With the significant decrease in survivability for guardians (SOTG 4/26), where are the damage output increases? I’m listening to them talk about nerfing retaliation, adding boon hate (taking extra % damage just for having our core class mechanic active…boons…per boon at that), effects and damage just bypassing our boons and utilities. With all of that, not one word about any increase to our very low damage output or increases to our uptime on swiftness. I was under the impression that guardian damage output was low to compensate for high survivability via boons? If one is changing…so should the other?
I would definitely play longbow as my alt weapon on a guardian. Currently scepter is our only viable range weapon, so I’d welcome a 2h alternative.
we’d be ok if they actually started play testing instead of forum balancing.
I would rather have a main hand pistol
I would also much rather have main hand pistol. We currently have only one ranged option for a 1h set up (scepter) and I’m sure I’m not alone in really hating that weapon. The slow wind up on attacks, the weak damage, and the auto clone generation. We already have pistol in our tool kit of weapons, so if they are going to add a new weapon for mesmers…it should be main hand pistol. I’d like this to have an alternative to the scepter (which auto generates normal clones with its basic attack). Having main hand pistol would still allow us to have a focus equipped and have a ranged weapon they could attach both a decent aoe effect to as well as a tactical clone generator ability…much like mh sword’s iLeap. I think great sword and staff already cover anything they could implement with a bow.
If it gives you any hope, I used to hate focus but came to love it eventually.
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I run a very balanced build, 15/10/20/20/5. Sword/Sword as my main set and Scepter/Focus as my off set. I’m pretty tanky in this set up with high uptime on distortion and the block from sword #4. I do decent damage, but I rarely ever shatter illusions. I prefer to keep my illusions alive if possible for 9% reduced damage and the regen/protection from phantasms. I only have one trait boosting illusions’ damage…empowered illusions in domination. I have mender’s purity and warden’s feed back in inspiration. I have illusionary defense and master of manipulation in chaos. I have blade training for reduced cd on all my sword abilities in dueling. I run zerker gear in combination with my semi tankish traits. I don’t focus on conditions at all…just direct damage. If i could ditch the scepter from my off set and use a main hand pistol, I would do so gladly. The scepter is my only real gripe about my current set up.
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And you don’t seem to understand that your harmless little OOC speed boost would be abused in combat. If Mesmers had a constant speed boost, they would be the masters of escaping, even better than Elementalists. Throw up clones, stealth and be long gone before anyone even knows where you are.
You do know that you stay in combat for as long as your clones keep damaging something, right?
Also, the recent stealth nerf stops stealth from getting you out of combat. Also, being in combat automatically reduces run speed..regardless of swiftness. Also, we already have the option to get swiftness….just forced to either pick a crap rune set to get it while wasting our heal at an inopportune time, or pick an offhand weapon that many do not want to use. The “nay” sayers here all seem to selectively forget these details conveniently.
I’d also like to remind that centaur runes are available for all classes. Its pretty obvious they are sub par considering no other class even uses those. That is proof enough of how crappy of an option that is for ooc movement speed. Would you burn your only real heal ability on any class…just to run faster…and possibly get caught with your heal on cool down when you need it? I think we all know the answer to that question.
I feel the same in regards to lack of viable pve options other than the over nerfed time warp. Something like the warrior signet of rage would be great. Wouldn’t have the excuse to nerf it into the ground as it would be a self buff and not a group buff. Would also give them an excuse to fix our horrible ooc swiftness. This would also finally provide an elite that could benefit from traits, since we do have a signet cd reduction trait. Just don’t make it have a ridiculous cool down like all our other elite choices.
I think an elite signet would be a great idea. That being said, your ideas are unbelievably weak.
I’m a bit too tired to come up with anything better right now, but the passive shouldn’t be a random effect on crit like that, and the active needs to actually have significant effects other than a weak swiftness buff that we can already approximate with temporal curtain.
Well I originally had fury as a boon on the active for a significant duration, but you know how everyone gets when you even suggest something good for a mesmer…OP! …Nerf! So I figured I’d leave it open and just suggest something minimal.
I don’t know about everyone else, but I’d like a signet elite as an option for mesmers. Considering the time warp changes, I wouldn’t mind at least one decent alternative to TW.
I think a signet would be a good choice. Something on a short cool down…may around the 40-45 second mark. I personally despise taking abilities on anything on a longer cool down than 1 minute. I like to be able to actually use my skills on a frequent basis and not be caught on an unreasonable cool down.
My ideas for a signet elite for mesmers could be any combination of the following:
1. Active click: swiftness (33%)
2. Passive proc: Chaos armor for party on low (ish) crit chance of the mesmer
I think making an elite signet would promote more build diverity and make good use of the signet cd trait
I rolled a warrior… Not because of any nerf to mesmers. I see one nerf and its across the board for all classes. Why is everyone overreacting to this.
Mesmer is still my main and I destroy warriors in WvW
Maybe because it is our only viable dps elite. It would be different if there was another option…even a selfish one (a self buff elite like warrior signet of rage). I already have a nearly fully geared 80 warrior. I’m only missing ascended 3 ascended accessories. I got bored with my warrior and bounced around from guard, necro, ele, and finally to mesmer. I haven’t been bored with the mesmer yet, but I am getting irritated with the constant nerf train on mesmers. The nerfs to stealth almost made me stop using decoy. The quickness nerf really makes me want to choose a different elite..but guess what…there is no other elite to chose for dps….stuck with the glass half empty now. I’d love a dps signet that maybe gave decent duration on a self fury boon and some passive swiftness.
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Time Warp was nerfed, but so was every similar skill. It’s still plenty potent and worth bringing. If you only play the profession for one skill then it’s inevitable you’ll be disappointed.
Honestly, if they had a self-buff dps elite…I’d take that instead. With a 3.5 minute cool down…I’d much rather dump the group utility for something that consistently benefits me in dps or functionality. This is especially true now that it does effectively half of what it used to. It was definitely OP in its effectiveness, but I think it was reasonably balanced by its long cool down. Now its just a long cool down meh ability.
Threads like this is why I don’t listen to most people talking about mesmers. So many cannot appreciate how strong Time Warp is even after a 50% nerf.
Every profession argues that they are underpowered and every nerf is uncalled for. Mesmers are more complicated than most professions and less overtly powerful. So the quotient of that is slightly higher.
Take your medicine and expect a few more key nerfs to specific areas of mesmer power so they can shore up the entire rest of your profession without you being insanely overpowered.
I don’t mind nerfs to things that are actually overpowered, and honestly the effect of TW was probably a bit over the top in effectiveness….but -50% and leaving the cooldown at almost 4 minutes with no way to reduce? All this for an ability that pretty much requires you to just stand in it to get gibbed? I can understand them wanting to tone down the burst, but then the frequency needs to be increased at the same time.
While nerfs may be appropriate at times, they are never fun or enjoyable. There is also the issue of things that are in need of improvement. So while you are busy nerfing, make a little more effort to improve things as well. Someone was saying they could have put 25% passive ooc movement speed on TW while they were beating it down with the nerf bat. I would have also appreciated the introduction of main hand pistol to our weapon choices.
As far as mesmers being “insanely overpowered”, that is just utility envy. ANET needs to stop forum balancing and realize that just because some of our utilities are better designed than other classes utilities..that does not make us OP. At the same time, some of the utilities of other classes seem better than ours. Portal is not exactly the best ability in GW2, despite it being useful in specific situations. Other classes have been given the equivalent of it already…so that is getting to be less and less of a QQ point for other classes. Honestly my warrior seems like it does 2-3 times as much damage as my mesmer, with much more in and out of combat mobility. I have to say though..that I still enjoy the mesmer more because the abilities are more interesting. I can’t see this whole OP thing people keep crying about when I’ve played Ele, Warr, Necro, and Guard prior to this mesmer. Maybe its something specific to pvp they all cry about, since that is the one thing in the game I really have no interest in so far.
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Quickness needed a nerf in PvP. Too easy to burst somebody down in less than 3 seconds.
While this is likely true, pvp is not the sum and total of this game. If the goal was to reduce the likelihood of players getting bursted within a few seconds, then that does not require them to keep the cool down on time warp so ridiculously long. The effect has been halved….the cool down should have been halved as well, in my opinion. Drastically reducing the cool down, in combination with reducing the effects, would still prevent players from getting bursted too quickly and therefore still achieve the desired effect. Having the cool down around 1.5 to 2 minutes is still a lifetime in pvp and a significant downtime in pve.
I’m starting to see what people are are saying about ANET and patching mesmers….has there actually been a patch where mesmers were not actually nerfed in some way? I’ve only been playing one for about 2-3 months and I’m hard pressed to recall anything but nerfs to my set up. Its getting pretty tiresome to see every nerf patch based on pvp whining. Even the “state of the game” videos they do are all about pvp….and the resultant pvp nerfs directly affect pve. Don’t get me wrong, I think TW probably deserved a nerf in the quickness department too, but the cool down needs to come down drastically if it is now half of what it used be in effectiveness.