Guild Wars 2

Oglaf.1074:

That’s the dumbest logic ever.

Should we remove the ability to dodge on every other class that can grant themselves Protection then?

Agreed…that is possibly the dumbest logic I’ve heard on any mmo forums yet…and that’s saying a lot.

RollingBob.8502:

I can’t comment on the others but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the burst, you have a choice of whether to use it all at once or save it up and milk it. You can trait towards saving it or rebuilding it super fast. You can choose a weapon that sucks it dry in one use or one that milks it.

Imagine that, they force you to choose a strategy instead of making you choose one set standard tactic. And each one has gasp drawbacks and advantages depending on the situation!

That is not broken, that is genius. If you can’t run with that maybe a guard is more your style? They don’t have to choose, the class basically has built in training wheels.

I would agree, that in general, warrior burst skills are decent. Most have a secondary effect besides direct damage. The exceptions are eviscerate and kill shot. Kill shot holds its own because it actually does enough damage to not require a secondary effect. Eviscerate is another story however.

Eviscerate has been getting its damage whittled down since beta apparently and the fairly recent nerf to the discipline burst damage bonus has only added to marginalizing of eviscerate. Its at the point now that you are better off just using auto attack instead of so called burst if you are using axe main hand. I think that is a problem. That’s like a guardian not using any virtues because he is better off without them. The burst mechanic is a core mechanic to the warrior class. Its like death shroud for a necro…its meant to be used, not ignored.

They need to give eviscerate a bonus effect too if they want the damage to be trash like it is now. I would prefer a defensive effect like protection after using eviscerate, a heal after using it, or weakness on the target.

The nerf to the discipline bonus needs to be revisited. I don’t think even ANET can disagree that 3% for 30 trait points is ridiculous. If they hate that bonus effect to burst damage so much, they need to change it to a different bonus…one that they are willing to give a decent return for trait point investment in.

I’m having trouble figuring out if the OP was just trolling and some clueless scrubs fell for it or not too. I would agree that in general, the warrior class is pretty balanced. Not perfect, but reasonably balanced.

The only major issues (besides bugs) that need be resolved are:
1. unreasonably weak and situational early defense traits.
2. lack of incentive to actually use burst skills..vs just sitting on full adrenaline.
3. babysitter design philosophy for dungeons…where we are supposed to rely on someone else to keep us alive.
4. need to equalize mobility options between weapon sets
5. passive run speed vs all other professions that just got normalized at passive 25%

Ever since that revised profession design philosophy post, I’ve been watching the defensive boons I’ve been getting in dungeons. I’ve even group with as many as 2 guardians at one time and wasn’t even getting aegis any more than the default 40 second interval. Hardly ever even got protection. Even less defensive boon up time from other professions. I think the whole concept of being dependent on other players/professions to get defensive boons is a failure in design. You can’t force other players to even slot their boon generating utilities..much less expect them to click them. The expectation that a higher hp pool will make the difference is negated by being a primary melee profession..thereby taking more damage due to being in melee range. I think we should be in charge of our own survival…which means we should have at least one reliable defensive boon…that is not dependent on weapon choice.

I still say they should let using a burst skill trigger protection on us…especially since all the melee burst skills land you right in melee range. Melee range is when we are most likely to take heavy damage. Make the discipline bonus be +duration on protection boon. Let using a melee burst grant protection. Problem fixed…not increasing axe or rifle burst…granting much needed survivability for dps traited warriors in melee range. I think we need this more than ever since most guardians I end up grouping with now are not providing aegis/protection anywhere near as often as they should be…probably not traited or not using the right utility skills. This hand holding ANET expected to happen isn’t happening…completely invalidates their revised design philosophy on warriors.

Ensign.2189:

People actually use burst skills? I thought most people just sat at full adrenaline for the +12% damage / +9% crit buffs, which do a whole lot more than most ‘burst’ skills.

It used to depend on the weapon and how fast you could refill your adrenaline bar. Now the only weapons where burst is still worth using may be long bow and hammer….and that’s just for the extra effects of those burst skills (fire combo field and area stun). The damage of our burst skills have been nerfed so much at this point that there is no point in using and actual burst damage skill with no superior special effects. Axe burst was still barely hanging in there as being a decent finisher when your single target was low…but now its damage is trash with the combined nerf to eviscerate plus the burst nerf to discipline. We are better off using auto attack with axe now. I want to use axe burst, so if they compensate by giving a decent heal on using it, protection/weakness upon using it…then yeah…I’d use axe burst. Its a core design component of the warrior profession to use our burst skill…they really need to fix this.

Yaki.9563:

Crossaber.8934:

I would rather see endurance regeneration rate increase by 1% for each trait point, as warrior is a class that rely heavily on dodging, so this will help warrior more without making us OP…

Endurance is not class specific, and this trait line enhances the class mechanic for each class. It needs to be some kind of bonus to burst skills or adrenaline.

We already have signet of stamina and the trait in strength “building momentum” to resolve any endurance issues. I agree that this should be a class specific bonus and endurance is not class specific. I’d rather the heal on burst or boon (protection or area of effect weakness) on burst options.

Braxxus.2904:

Would it be too much to ask for it to provide a heal on burst skill use with the disc bonus increasing the amount it heals for? Perhaps giving warriors the sustainability other classes have with their self healing capabilities and actually promoting the use of adrenaline skills instead of hoarding them for the crit%, dam% and regen.

This would be a great idea…actually rewarding us for using burst skills and blowing our adrenaline stacks. I’d even take a boon like protection after using burst skills. This would be very appropriate as using a melee burst skill puts you right in the middle of danger. I’d honestly prefer protection vs healing, but I’m not picky at this point since we have nothing at the moment (I don’t even consider the current discipline burst bonus to exist as it is ridiculously weak).

They should reverse the nerf to burst/eviscerate and just remove the extra burst from the discipline trait line…as they clearly don’t want us to have the burst from discipline anyway….3% for 30 trait points …really?!?

CharrGirl.7896:

Before you strip down female armors even more I vote for revealing male armors. It doesn’t have to look kittenty but more sexy imo. Having 1 arm or no arm on 1 boob won’t change anything. Why is this so important anyways?

Because the only real progression in this game is aesthetics.

Weindrasi.3805:

The problem with skimpy armor on female characters isn’t that it’s unrealistic.
The problem is that it’s not equal.
While the male gets covering, unsexualized armor, the female gets skimpy sexualized armor. This sends the message that females don’t matter as much, and are only there for sex.
I think it’s fine for females to have skimpy armor, as long as the male counterpart is ALSO skimpy. So in this case, I disagree unless they sex up the male armor too.

I’d be perfectly fine with more revealing male armor sets. In fact, one of the reasons I never pick male characters in games is because of the boring full body tin cans they have to wear. At least the female characters get some somewhat sexy armor designs….even though they devs in most games end up caving to the potato sack whiners. I’d love to see male sets with half chest pieces or some skin revealed on legs or mid sections. I’ll have to admit that I’m not ready to see male characters running around in g-strings or enlarged crotch pieces though lol.

Neandramathal.9536:

ODB.6891:

Combine that with weak escape options that don’t involve your favorite weapon (GS)

You couldn’t be more wrong. I roll a hammer, I find the greatsword boring and frankly overshadows our other weapons far too much in every aspect but CC. I am also not a bunker player, I have high armor but I am not a bunker, nor am I a shout warrior. You are making an incredibly large amount of assumptions.

I agree, heavy armor does not change much. But it is still there, and specced for DPS a warrior can still push numbers higher than the majority of classes. Hating on ‘deeps’? not really, but I am not blind to the damage we can output.

Sigh, all this simply because I said I don’t believe something described as “glass” should have access to one of the best defensive boons available.

The favorite weapon remark was about your focus on 100b and it was a bit of sarcasm as you had already said you were just using it as an example…so not an assumption.

Nearly everything you have said so far has been focused on buffing bunker warriors…so anyone reading that would have made that assumption.

One is not a lot of assumptions.

One of a grand total of 3 defensive boons in the entire game…if you count stability as a defensive boon. I will never agree with you that any melee class should be without stability and at least one high uptime damage reducer…those are just logical prerequisites for melee combat in this game design. Guardians currently have everything except stealth and weakness. Thieves have stealth and blind. Warriors have weakness….if they use a warhorn. I’d even be satisfied if they just added weakness to one of our shouts…instead of attaching it to a specific offhand weapon….and let it have decent uptime.

I would be singing a completely different tune if heavy armor type actually made a significant impact on our survival, but we both know that will not be the case because it would further buff guardians.

Neandramathal.9536:

The reason I mentioned 100b is because it is the typical ability that players tend to rate damage with, it is also one of our best burst abilities and as such an example of how hard we can hit when we land it. I don’t think that hitting that hard should come with the level of defense that Protection+Heavy armor+High HP can provide.

At that stage we may as well be a guardian with more hp (Joke of course.. although they do hit waaay too hard for their survival >.>)

You seem to put a lot of stock into the whole “heavy armor” thing, but I’m sure anyone who has played multiple professions in this game can tell you that that is not a survival factor at end game play. This is especially true when you take some points that you mentioned yourself about “front line” players on a battle field. Being on the front lines/in melee range means that you are going to take extra damage just be having to navigate/run through red circles…just to be able to do your damage. To my knowledge, armor does not mitigate condition damage. Combine that with weak escape options that don’t involve your favorite weapon (GS) and Heavy armor + high HP advantage just got erased. You should already be familiar with this mechanic as it is the same thing you have to deal with as your bunker build…just imagine that without the extra hp, toughness, and shout healing/regeneration you get. Stop hating on deeps btw…seems to be some issue there lol…reoccurring theme about what you don’t think other players should have.

One buff in common does not equal a guardian btw. I’m fairly positive guardians aren’t the only class that gets the protection boon. Not asking to heal like a guardian, block like a guardian, buff like a guardian….just want to not be squishier than a light armor wearing class.

Recently.1043:

no offense but wvw is pvp for dummies. No one really complains about anything in wvw balance wise (aside from stealth/culling and portal). Any build is viable in wvw cause people there are just plain bad for the most part.

go play some spvp, get to at least rank10 minimum (doesn’t take that long) playing only warrior. Play free tourneys at least also, and watch what happens to a warrior in those fights. You don’t understand until you try it yourself sorry.

Not sure who this response was aimed at, but pvp in any of its forms, is not something I was commenting on. The only thing I talk about is pve. I don’t log on to duel…no matter how many there are to do that with. I’m just talking about the basic design of the warrior class itself. Poor scaling of things like toughness and armor make the absence of protection stand out like a sore thumb imo.

What you just said makes no sense. The damage output of one unbalanced ability, tied to one specific weapon, does not somehow make a core flaw of the entire class not exist. I’m sorry you got gibbed by some 100b warrior, but your argument makes no sense if that is what you are basing it on.

The term “glass cannon” is something that has been applied to any warrior spec that is not a bunker spec…specifically because of the problem we have with survivability. It’s ironic that you want to use that as a justification to leave 1/2 of the specs in the profession broken…just because of one ability using one weapon. That just does not follow any kind of logic. If you hate 100b so much…that is a different issue altogether. And no….our survival as a dps warrior is not where it should be….that’s something that is widely known even by the developers themselves.

Neandramathal.9536:

I agree with Schwar that we need tweaks, not some sort of mega-buff. How is the question. We lack the damage prevention tools outside of dodging (available to all), endure pain (CD is insane and doesnt stop condi’s) or Shield Stance. This I think is the core issue for it, however it would have to be very careful that such things weren’t available to the glass warriors…. and that’s where another problem occurs, because the glass part is stats not traits. If they for instance gave us protection via a trait, a glass warrior could still pick it up and gain a huge boost (33% is a lot after all) to survival.

…….

As such, that’s why I think the warrior needs more tools to mitigate damage (but the issue is no way to seperate it from glass cannons unless its a trait/ability based on toughness somehow) so it can do its job in WvW, but this may inbalance it in sPvP. A blowout or proper punt asides from stomp would be nice in either though.

I’m scratching my head wondering why you think (and go out of your way specifically to pinpoint) that any warrior not traited as a bunker warrior, should not have a fix for a problem that plagues all warrior builds? Do glass warrior builds not die even quicker than bunker warriors? Do glass warriors not already have a significant hp deficit from being glass…compared to bunker warriors? Do glass warriors not already have a huge toughness deficit from being glass…compared to bunker warriors? Both glass and bunker warriors need to be in melee to be at maximum effectiveness…and glass warriors suffer more from the lack of the protection boon than bunker warriors. If anything, glass traited warriors should be the first considered to get the protection buff and put it out of range of the bunker warriors…as they already have superior survivability among warriors. Honestly..that probably why they haven’t given protection to warriors…because the bunker build exists.

The only benefit to having a warrior in a dungeon party vs a different profession is consistent raw damage output. There is no true tanking in this game, and even if there were….a guardian would still be better at it. A thief is likely to have higher single target burst damage. Ranged classes provide boons and dps with the survivability of being at range..more so than we do with a rifle or long bow. That leaves warriors with one simple task….get in there and kill stuff fast. With that being said, pvp bunker builds do not accomplish that task. If you’ve ever been in a dungeon run where the boss was regenerating health nearly as fast as your party’s dps could whittle it down…then you know what I mean. Yes, you’ll live longer in dungeons with a bunker build, but you’ll also be slowing the group down and not providing the benefit a warrior should to the group. Even the warrior-provided boons are all damage increasers…ANET is, in a not so subtle way, telling you what your group contribution should be.

I agree with “Recently.1043” that it would be wise to start out with a defensive build and then transition to a glassy build as you learn the encounters. I know my first dungeons in this game involved a lot of deaths. This was due to the significant difference in damage done by dungeon mobs vs open world mobs and the expected gear levels for running dungeons. If I recall correctly, I was surprised by the frequency and volume of conditions applied in dungeons like TA. That’s when I finally realized how terrible healing signet was compared to mending.

You probably don’t want to roll into a dungeon with a large amount of toughness as I understand that mobs do tend to focus on players with high toughness. That might be a recipe for repeated deaths in your first few dungeon runs.

Gregorius.1024:

How do you guys do it? My mains are a level 80 Guardian and Necro and doomsday, the gods, and the Elder Dragons cannot kill me. But once I touch the warrior, its as if my armor is made of tissue paper. I cannot for the life of me figure it out. How do you stay alive as a warrior? Also, how do you get the most out of using vengeance? I’m level 43 doing the story mode for now

Despite the “sturdy body” thing ANET said in the recently revised warrior design philosophy, we do die very easily due to the complete absence of any survival boons.

Anticipation and dodging are the primary things that keep us alive…and both of those require some measure of skill….especially since you have to do them at point blank range as a melee character. Everything I say is to be taken from a pve perspective.

We do have Shield Stance (3 second duration, 30 second cd) and Endure Pain (5 second duration, 90 second cd). Both of those are highly unreliable in my opinion due to low duration and high cool down…as well as the fact that they are not complete damage mitigation. We do also have war horn skill “call to arms”, which is extremely nice if you don’t mind giving up off hand weapon attack skills. Call to Arms gives area of effect weakness to enemies for 6 seconds on a 20 second cool down. It also gives 10 seconds of 100% endurance regeneration…which is huge considering how important dodging is to a warrior.

What I said so far is completely ignoring traits. If you plan on doing any decent amount of damage, then the only other things you can do are to pick up utilities/traits that remove conditions. I personally use mending for my self heal + it removes 2 conditions. I pair that with shake it off to break a stun/get up from a knock down/remove a snare or any other single condition. I prefer the utility “shake it off” over the trait “shrug it off” or “last stand” because I get to choose when I use it. Not sure if having both the utility and similar trait still put each other on cool down or not.

I’m assuming if you are having trouble staying alive, that you are not traited as a paper weight (defense/tactics). You aren’t really going to kill anything tough in a meaningful time frame that way, but you’ll have as much survivability as you can possibly get as a warrior. If you find your self in dungeon groups unable to out damage a boss’ regeneration rate..then you may want to re-trait. I tried going 15 points into defense to pick up adrenal health, but the survival gains from half of that trait line were so minimal that I’ll take my chances with a full glass build…I’m better off just dodging.

I’d say a warrior is more gear dependent than any other class, so you might have to update your gear more frequently than on your other classes. Its like one of the previous posters said…it often comes down to killing the enemy before it kills you…which makes glass builds hugely better for leveling than defense/tactics.

As far as your vengeance question….I’m probably crazy…but I do use it occasionally. If i’m downed, i’m not going to be able to recover due to something continuing to attack me, I don’t have a chance at rallying from throwing rocks…then yeah…I’ll pop vengeance. I do it with the premise that I’m going to die anyway…may as well try to take something with me. I have been pleasantly surprised on occasion to kill my target and not actually die to the vengeance timer.

Neandramathal.9536:

I think mobility on a GS warrior isn’t an issue but the rest it’s not that great, especially as leaps are affected by cripple/chill.

I can’t see them giving us a passive condition removal because of the class philosophy, as much as I’d like it.

The class philosophy is as fail as i’ve ever seen. It goes in the opposite direction of what this game’s class design is supposed to be about (no trinity). When you design a class to be dependent on another to keep it alive…you may as well throw in tanks and healers at that point. The primary appeal of the class design in this game was supposed to be self-reliance. Hence the emphasis on the dodge system. They just need to own up to the fail and correct this…instead of hiding behind a really crappy, revised class description. I’m pretty sure that was not the class description when I created my warrior or the class description when I bought this game.

style.6173:

Steely Phil.3952:

So, yeah. Not very encouraging. I really wish I hadn’t picked the class that was designed to be bad.

LOL. Let’s recap…

1. Amazing at 1 on 1 against most classes
2. One of the best dungeon classes and especially good at FotM at higher levels
3. Great utility in WvW both in melee as well as at range.

If you disagree with any of those points, maybe you need to work on your spec or game play style.

lol nice straw man

I do agree with you on point one…but 1 vs 1 is not a legitimate balance issue in any game.

I definitely do not agree with you on point two. That is entirely a biased and possibly troll-like statement. How on earth is the profession, that is most dependent on other professions to survive, supposed to be “one of the best” at any dungeon? If the professions, that are designed to hold our hands, are not there or are not traited to baby sit us…then we become a liability. Either having to revert to gimp ranged offense, having to resort to gimp dps via a tanky trait/gear set up, or spending an excessive amount of time downed or running away/dodging.

I do agree with your point three about our utility. We have nice dps support in regards to OMM and FGJ. Hammer, mace, and long bow are also pretty nice as weapon choices in pvp.

I agree that it is a fail design to set a profession up to fail intentionally, when we don’t have a pocket guardian to hold our hands. The baseline hp from being a warrior is effectively negated by the combination of needing to be in melee range to be effective…plus the poor condition removal options we have. Our self healing options are weak and armor has no effect on conditions. We are pretty much forced to pick mending as our self heal due to our weakness to condition damage. Its a given that we should also take shake it off for the same reason. We could end up having to focus our entire build and weapon choice around fighting off conditions, just because of this intentional gimp in our design. No other profession in the game is this restricted by a core game mechanic.

Personally, I don’t want to focus my build around trying to tank in a game that claims to not revolve around the trinity..so I don’t even try for the defense/tactics build. That defeats the purpose of the warrior profession in this game in my opinion…which is to provide dps output and dps support by way of increasing damage output for ourselves and teammates. A tanky warrior with gimp dps is pretty much a waste of space in a dungeon group. You’d be much better off with a guardian than a tanky warrior. I can’t help but groan when I get a dungeon group without a guardian as it is…I know from the start its going to be much more difficult without one.

I don’t think it would be over powered at all to either to buff shake it off a little to either remove multiple conditions or provide protection. As it is..shake it off only removes one status effect and we have no control over which one gets removed. If it were not for the prohibitive cool down on signet of stamina..i’d take that instead as it is our only “remove all conditions” option.

Even our defensive cool downs, that do not help with conditions, are on too long of a cool down. I don’t see any 90+ second cool down being useful in any environment in this game. In fact, any cool down greater than 20 seconds is problematic with the pace of melee combat in this game. It’s not like there is a 20 second shared cool down on having new conditions applied to us by enemies/players.

Anet needs to re-read their description they just gave warriors with unbiased eyes.

evolverzilla.2359:

If you put the LFG in a auto form groups system lots of people will never use them because it´s not our freedom of choice, just something forced on us. And when you take the freedom of choice people will be very angry.

Simple answer..if you don’t like it…don’t use it? How is it forced on you if you don’t have to use it? I didn’t see any mention of them removing map chat or the /invite function.

Auvic.5679:

I wouldn’t like to see a LFG tool, myself. The disadvantages to it that I’ve seen far outweigh its benefits, especially when joining a guild to find people to consistently run dungeons(Including Fractals) with is one of the simplest things in GW2.

What possible disadvantages could you be referring to? You don’t even know how they will go about implementing a group finder. The current system already matches you up with randoms…just by spamming map chat for anyone willing to do the same dungeon you want to do. The presence of a group finder does not stop you from doing what you are currently doing. You can still only group with your guild mates or friends. You don’t have to click on any group finder if you don’t want to. You can’t possibly be finding any sense of “community” by reading “LFG X” 1 million times a day in map chat. I don’t see the disadvantages you are referring to?!? Are you referring to people actually getting to do the dungeons as a disadvantage? Do you want dungeons to be something that only guild mates or friends can do on a consistent basis?

4. Difficult dungeon paths

I think some dungeon paths could actually use a revision or two. Someone earlier posted about dungeon paths that were not fun because they required players to die repeatedly to achieve success. One in particular is path 2 (magg) in Citadel of Flame. I don’t find any enjoyment in dying repeatedly to accomplish that and as such, I choose not to do that path anymore. It would be different if it was not necessary to die to get that done. The mobs in that room are just over tuned. The various traps/obstacles in dungeons like the laser grid in CoE and the fire boulder tunnel in CoF should not cause equipment durability. It just wastes time having to unequip your items to not end up with a repair bill from an obstacle course.

5. Melee combat in dungeons

Dungeons are overly punitive to melee players. I find myself letting out an audible groan every time I realize I am in a party without at least one guardian. I’d even take a dagger off hand necromancer. If you can’t tell, I play a dps warrior (better known as a glass cannon). Your current dungeon design is 100% easier on a warrior if there is another player there to hold my hand (give me defensive buffs). It would be amazing if we had either protection or weakness as one of our utilities…instead of it being tied to a specific weapon. I have no knowledge of how it feels to play a thief in dungeons, but I do know how it feels to be focused by a champion mob or a boss as a dps warrior. Just being in parties and feeling the effects of aegis, I have an idea of how it feels to be a guardian in dungeons. If spike damage is going to stay as it is, please spread the love with reasonable cool down defensive utilities (not tied to some specific weapon choice). I have tried going up to half way through the defense trait line and there was not even a noticeable survival difference.

1. Dungeon Finder:

My desire to play this game wanes every day that I have to spend hours spamming map chat, while waiting around in Lion’s Arch, to get a group. The worst part about spending this much time spamming map chat for a group is not the time spent…its the fact that after all this time…I still don’t get a group for the dungeon I want to do. Add the fact that I have to keep logging off and back on to compensate for getting suppressed, due to actually asking for group.

You can listen to this vocal minority that keeps saying a dungeon finder is somehow going to ruin this game…but all that is going to do is cause you to lose players. I feel there are significantly more players who are tired of having to spam map chat for a group that never happens, than there are players who will be upset because other players are able to find groups more efficiently or at all. There is no sense of community achieved by having players log off in disgust for not being able to get a group for their desired dungeon(s) during their available play time. Those who prefer or can get a guild or friend group, will continue to be able to do so, whether there is a dungeon finder or not. Please implement a dungeon finder. Please make it filter out players wearing excessive magic find gear.

2. Fractals

Please implement a tier grouping system for fractals like one of the above posters mentioned. It is extremely frustrating to not be able to get a group/progress due to lack of available grouping options due to everyone being scattered across so many different fractal levels. Tiers of 10 levels grouping together would be perfect. I think you guys did a great job on the fractal dungeon design, but grouping is killing this dungeon. The successes of this fractal design should be carried over to the previous dungeons in their overhaul (reasonable trash mobs, interesting mechanics, more open environments, drastically better rewards). The RNG is overly painful however…mainly referring to the chances of actually getting a useful ascended item or any ascended item at all. I’m at fractal level 8 and all I’ve gotten so far is one ascended crafting material item. I’m nearly at the point where I’ll be needing some agony resistance and I have none at this point. It would be fantastic if you would implement ascended rewards as a higher cost token reward for the previous dungeons…maybe even a new path in previous dungeons to give comparable rewards to the fractal dungeons.

3. Trash mobs

I agree completely with above posters about the problems with trash mobs in regular explorable dungeons. There is never a good reason, with the current set up, to engage the more difficult trash mobs. One example in my favorite dungeon (Crucible of Eternity) is the champion frost wolf near the entrance. That one trash mob seems to down players nearly instantly…much more difficult than any boss in the entire instance. This same mob very rarely gives up anything other than a blue or green item. Rather than punish players for doing what only makes sense, rushing past that mob, why not reduce its difficulty to reasonable levels or provide some real incentive to killing it?

Agyaggalamb.4796:

So… Now we’re talking about morals? That’s… astonishing. Btw thanks for the heads up that from now on I should never ever try to get into a dungeon group because I’m (and many others in their MF gear) clearly a useless leecher contributing nothing to the group.

I’d still like to see actual figures of this less contribution due to gear. So guys in MF gear are a setback (but I bet you’d be glad if someone in full MF actually showed up when you already wasted 30 mins finding the last guy for a dungeon run…), but to what extent? Tell me the numbers, but not statistical BS and percentages. Videos of 3 dungeon runs. Same party members, same dungeon. 1st run – 5 dungeon gear. 2nd run – 4 dungeon gear, 1 MF gear, 3rd run – 5 MF gear. If the difference between completion times (aka effectivness) is greater than 10 minutes between the first and second run, and 30-40 mintues of the first and third run, then I hereby promise to get a second dungeon set, and never go to a dungeon again in MF.

If the numbers are like that or worse it would be useful as a “why not to go magic find frenzy in dungeons” tutorial.

I think its amazing that you need someone else to present math to explain common sense. Try taking off one or two of your gear pieces and fight one veteran or champion mob. You don’t even have to be in a dungeon to do that. Try that again with all of your gear on. See if that makes a difference vs a mob that would normally nearly kill you in full gear. Magnify that difference based on how much more difficult a boss or otherwise difficult mob would be in a dungeon if you were the last person in the party standing while your teammates were rushing back from a WP in a dungeon. You are now the difference between that boss resetting and going back to full health…which means your party has to repeat that entire boss fight. Say its not even a possible wipe…say you just get one shotted by a boss in a dungeon due to low vitality or toughness. The difficulty of a tough mob or boss increases dramatically when there is 1/5 or greater less dps or less targets for it to switch between (meaning it may focus on the remaining players more often..giving them less time to get that heal off of cooldown). These are all logical things that do not require some from of proof to understand. Yes, the same difficulty increase can occur because someone just fails to dodge or has low vitality due to a glass build…but why allow extra, intentional handicaps as well as the inevitable player errors.

OK, now relax, read one more time what I have wrote, think and then write me back. I haven’t said guild members are better in anyway. In fact I was guild-less till yday but despite that fact I have on my friend list some ppl I met online while I was puging. I thought:Hey he/she is a good player. I wonder if he/she would like to do more dungeon with me. I should ask him/her if I can put him/her on my friend list “for latter useage”. I have also few blocked players that were so kittening smart in dungeons that I couldn’t stand reading them.
I’m not saying stay in closed guild/friend group. I’m saying make a new ingame friend that you know you can count for.

And if you want a change in mechanics why not add some boon/condition inside dungeons that prevents an increased magic find.

I don’t want to nit pick, but you specifically opened that previous post by saying to “stop pugging”. That means only group with guild mates or friends. My issue with that is that should not be required, especially not because of a flawed design issue that can easily be rectified. Your idea in the above quote would eventually accomplish the goal of discouraging MF in dungeons. It would probably take a little while before people realized that that MF wasn’t working in dungeons and then they would swap to a real set for the dungeons.

Nox Aeterna.2965:

ODB.6891:

Nothing about what I said was an opinion. You want evidence…look at Diablo 3 or any other recent game that tried to implement magic find. They implemented magic find on gear and sure enough….tons of leeches in dungeons loaded up with with nothing but magic find…ignoring all other stats. Endless wipefests, players kicking each other from parties, etc. Just the single fact that blizzard then made it useless to have magic find on gear by implementing paragon levels. They made it so that once you reached max paragon level…the magic find on your gear did absolutely nothing but limit your potential. It was enough of an issue that they implemented two major game patches over this issue. There’s your proof. That is not an opinion..it is fact. The same arguments you are making now…are the one the leeches tried to make in that game…you see where that got them. The net result was magic find no longer on gear…which is the only thing that makes sense as it is taking up space where functional stats should be.

You should also read for comprehension, that I never said which group was in the minority definitively because no one can determine that accurately. What I did say was that the majority of people and subsequently players will likely go for magic find. The reasoning is because it is the easy route that allows them to leech off of the effort of others. People naturally gravitate towards the path of least resistance. Right now the game mechanics are allowing this path of least resistance to be magic find as it has the highest rewards gained from the effort of others. That is not saying you are not putting in effort too, but saying that the effort you are putting in is less effective on average due to less optimum stats.

If you are going to go as far as to quote someone…at least pay attention to what you quoted.

Ok lets by saying that , because one game , Diablo 3 did it , does not mean much to other games , because if you remember , Diablo 2 , had MF implemented, and i think it is still there , till today with 0 modifications. And by what you said (you mean that thing we would kill a special mob and stack up to 5?) , they did not remove it? They simple added a bonus outside it? That only means people can still use it anyway.

People go insane to get the highest possible. That means , even if Anet took Blizzard path for D3 it would still be tons of people running with MF. Why? cause it gives a minor add. And people dont care for the math , they care they could get +0.001%.

And while true i think D3 is not a bad game , like many other seems to think , i would say D2 was still better (But this is an opinion so there is little value to it on our argument).

If you read the details of the paragon level system, they capped MF at like 300 and the only way to exceed that 300 was by the stacks you get from killing champs/rares. That put the maximum at 375 i believe. Therefore, if you are at maximum paragon level, then you already have 300 MF. You then kill 5 champs/rares and you are at 375. Any MF you have on your gear at that point does absolutely nothing…which makes it wasted potential stats. Up until you reached max paragon level, yes…MF still had a diminishing benefit. That was a pretty elegant way of weeding MF off of gear as you continued to play. It allowed players to still improve their gear over time while still allowing them to have their precious MF.

Nox Aeterna.2965:

Clerigo.9475:

Well, it is not that hard to make proof. Im gonna try.

- With magic find: forked option, allowing players to opt for a MF as 3rd stat in detriment of one that would allow them to better play the game, just because the design is available in the game and other players are using it, thus making the player feel if he doesnt also do it he will be slow pacing his progression.

- With no magic find: everyone at same level.

Now with moving objects

- With MF: the balance is uneven, pending to one side or the other
- Without MF: the balance rests at the middle.

That is not exactly the kind of proof i was asking for hehe.

I wont argue with you that IF we had the same player ,on the exact same time and exact same situation , a “normal” set would be more beneficial in fights than the MF one. MF is designed to increase drops , not really perform greatly in combat.

But i believe the player got the right to chose , it is their choice to decide if they want to use MF or not , simple like that.

Do note that , for some reason people on this thread seem to think i would ever run a dungeon using MF gear , i would not. End of story. I actually began by getting a MF set to farm to only after get the “normal” set.

I refuse to join any dungeon while i lacked the normal gear because i knew i would be a problem to my group. But that was my choice. nobody forced me to not join and many of the groups did not even care even when i told them i only had MF set.

My point is that a player has to pick what he/she wants to do. Not that is morally right to use MF in a dungeon.

I have no problems with people if they actually wear functional gear in dungeons. Of course there is no way to know the difference in this game since there is no inspect feature. Honestly the person dying repeatedly could just be bad at dodging. The person with low damage output wouldn’t really stand out as you have no way of knowing who isn’t producing results. The only issue is that those who do abuse it make it a problem. I said in an earlier post that MF outside of dungeons has no negative effect…the only issue I have with MF outside of dungeons is as to why MF exists anyway? Why is the game designed to make you have to modify your loot chances versus just rewarding you appropriately to begin with for your efffort. That was one of the premises of the OP’s post.

Sovta.4719:

Actualy it was meant for ODB.6891, didn’t quote it right sory
I don’t play much and i don’t grind for gold so i can buy some stupied skin for weapons (that’s what legendary is)
But i like that this game requires skills, spent some time learning it and now i want to do some chalenging dungeons, for fun believe it or not, i don’t care even if i lose gold.

How could that have possibly been for me? I don’t wear magic find gear or spend time farming. I log on and do a couple of dungeons and then log off. My character has about 7 gold right now. What source of income am I supposed to lose? My real life job? I also don’t understand how any of that relates to experiencing a challenge?

Your suggestion to only group with guild mates is ridiculous. Your suggestion is anti social in a game genre that is all about socialization. Your suggestion implies that it is better to leave a flawed mechanic in place than to fix it. I group with guild and non guild whenever it suits me. I don’t wait for any ridiculous amounts of time hoping enough or the right people log on in my guild before forming a group to do what I want to do right now..and not later on. The whole premise of your suggestion makes no logical sense. Why not fix the problem…not find ways to get around the problem? Why not use a built in mechanic in the game…that is supposed to work? The only option to invite another player to a party is not in the guild interface…it is in the game interface. Who says that players in your guild are somehow smarter than players in another guild? Who says that an unguilded player is not as smart as the next? Your assumptions and suggestions are faulty. This is not an issue with solo play. This is an issue with dungeon runs. You can run around naked in solo play and no one would really care…except that crowd that hops from game to game complaining that they can see some skin on your character and that all gear should look like full body coffins. You assume that I don’t already have quality people on my friend’s list that I do group with for some dungeons….that is also a faulty assumption. The assumption that I don’t have multiple gear sets is also a faulty assumption…both are actually for dungeon runs (one power/precision/critical damage, one power/toughness/vitality). Even if I were only grouping with guild mates or friended individuals, that does not make it so that I cannot see a clear problem that needs to be addressed. There is no QQ in this thread by anyone who has posted so far. The worst there has been so far is selfish bias and a bit of underhanded name calling.

Nenthil.4312:

Ok, ok. So wait. Let me get it straight. You want anet to remove +magic find from gear because people with +mf don’t do as much dmg/don’t survive as long as ppl with toughness/vitality.? Or you just simply want them remove that stat because you’re to tight-arsed to invest some gold into a gear that will bring you more gold?
Well sure that makes perfect sense -.-’

So now you are upset to the point of name calling and insults because someone is pointing out how you are leeching? Maybe that means maturity level is a factor in who uses magic find at the expense of the other people they play with? Makes perfect sense! If you were to read what was actually being said, you would already know the answer to your question….The output of the player being diminished by being replaced by a stat that only affect their personal loot drops is the issue. The only people concerned with gold in this topic are the magic find leeches. I already have a second set by the way…and its not a magic find set because I’m not that self centered. I have a glass set and a tank set. If the group has a couple guardians with near perma aegis, then I’ll run glass…otherwise I mix in tanky gear.

Nox Aeterna.2965:

ODB.6891:

Of course you don’t see the problem….because you are the problem. I’d even agree that it is possible that a large number of gamers do like magic find…..the say way the majority of people in real life would like the opportunity to get rich quick at somebody else’ expense. The majority of people in this world would shoot you or kill you to get what you have in a heartbeat if it was allowed and had no negative consequences. People are just like that. That’s what rules and laws are for…and in this case..game design. I’m sorry that you apparently fall into the lowest common denominator category, thinking that there is nothing wrong with carrying your ton of magic find while everyone else does the heavy lifting, but I don’t think its okay…and a lot of others do not think its okay. There are plenty of other games that have also proven that it is not okay. Logic and common sense prove that it is not okay. It has nothing to do with not wanting to spend the time to get a second set for magic find. It has everything to do with not creating a handicap situation for the rest of the party…that has not agreed to carry you to victory.

The problem to each side is the other. Therefore to me , you are the problem. See how things turn so easily when we base this on simple opinion not formed by anything that proves … well anything at all?

You say it was proven right? So be my guest , show the proof.

Saying something like im in the minority server no purpose , can you prove im? Cause i could say you are the minority also. And now? Who is right?

Till you bring proof , saying you are right is a subjective thing , you cant confirm.

Nothing about what I said was an opinion. You want evidence…look at Diablo 3 or any other recent game that tried to implement magic find. They implemented magic find on gear and sure enough….tons of leeches in dungeons loaded up with with nothing but magic find…ignoring all other stats. Endless wipefests, players kicking each other from parties, etc. Just the single fact that blizzard then made it useless to have magic find on gear by implementing paragon levels. They made it so that once you reached max paragon level…the magic find on your gear did absolutely nothing but limit your potential. It was enough of an issue that they implemented two major game patches over this issue. There’s your proof. That is not an opinion..it is fact. The same arguments you are making now…are the one the leeches tried to make in that game…you see where that got them. The net result was magic find no longer on gear…which is the only thing that makes sense as it is taking up space where functional stats should be.

You should also read for comprehension, that I never said which group was in the minority definitively because no one can determine that accurately. What I did say was that the majority of people and subsequently players will likely go for magic find. The reasoning is because it is the easy route that allows them to leech off of the effort of others. People naturally gravitate towards the path of least resistance. Right now the game mechanics are allowing this path of least resistance to be magic find as it has the highest rewards gained from the effort of others. That is not saying you are not putting in effort too, but saying that the effort you are putting in is less effective on average due to less optimum stats.

If you are going to go as far as to quote someone…at least pay attention to what you quoted.

Of course you don’t see the problem….because you are the problem. I’d even agree that it is possible that a large number of gamers do like magic find…..the say way the majority of people in real life would like the opportunity to get rich quick at somebody else’ expense. The majority of people in this world would shoot you or kill you to get what you have in a heartbeat if it was allowed and had no negative consequences. People are just like that. That’s what rules and laws are for…and in this case..game design. I’m sorry that you apparently fall into the lowest common denominator category, thinking that there is nothing wrong with carrying your ton of magic find while everyone else does the heavy lifting, but I don’t think its okay…and a lot of others do not think its okay. There are plenty of other games that have also proven that it is not okay. Logic and common sense prove that it is not okay. It has nothing to do with not wanting to spend the time to get a second set for magic find. It has everything to do with not creating a handicap situation for the rest of the party…that has not agreed to carry you to victory.

Not everyone wants their armor to look androgynous. They have a wide variety of armor sets in this game and I’m sure you can find some or even transmute the one you are wearing to look more like a burlap sack. Please stop going from game to game trying to have everyone wearing burlap sacks or full body tin cans because of some personal issue.

I don’t even see a problem with people appearing to run around naked since you can’t take off the default underwear anyway. Even then, it would be a simple matter to limit which things you can dye to a clear color. I just think clear dye would open up a whole new level of customization to gear appearances and I think I’m aligned with many others in loving the ability to customize my character.

I support the OP 100% on this topic. Its absolutely ridiculous that anyone would even try to say they can’t see the truth in what he pointed out.

It is impossible to not be less effective when you are sacrificing a huge chunk of your stats in favor of getting more loot…at your group’s expense. You can’t hit as hard, you can’t take as many hits, you don’t heal your party for as much, etc…when you are loaded down with magic find instead of stats that actually make you valuable to your party.

Different stat combinations are fine (power/vit/toughness, power/precision/crit, etc) so long as they do something productive to help the group succeed (kill mobs faster, survive longer to eventually kill mobs). On a side note, I don’t agree with the limitation to 3 primary stats on gear…all gear should have some degree of toughness/vitality by default. What is not fine is fighting without your gear on….which is essentially what you are doing by wearing magic find instead of productive stats. All that magic find you are loaded up with ultimately equals the stats on several gear pieces…meaning you are the same as someone who decided to take off several of their gear pieces and still claim they are putting in equal work towards clearing the dungeon, etc. Yeah, you just might be the king of dodging and never take any hits while still killing mobs. You might also be the king of fail and die repeatedly due to no vit/toughness/healing…whatever stat you are sacrificing for magic find. You might also be that guy that stands in the corner or runs away when others are fighting. In any of those scenarios, you are still doing less damage output than someone properly geared for group content because you are either having to spend more effort dodging, more time running away, or more time dead…and the result is less damage done. Yes, there are fail players who do these things anyway and are properly geared, but this issue is about intentional and completely avoidable instances of this due to intentionally gearing in a way to cause this. You can’t avoid fail players as easily as you can just stop allowing gear options that specifically cause this negative effect.

I just quit another game that didn’t factor this problem in initially, Diablo 3. It was much more obvious in that game due to the ability to inspect other players and the real money auction house. Even blizzard was eventually smart enough to realize how bad of a screw up having magic find on gear was…and that’s saying a lot for blizzard to actually correct a design mistake. They eventually came up with a system to gradually shift magic find from gear to being an intrinsic reward from continued play. That was one of the smartest decisions they made in that game..but of course it was still a fail game due to the rigged loot drops and real money auction house scam they were running. This game will suffer from useless players in groups so long as they keep magic find on gear just like Diablo 3 did.

Anet has a clear opportunity now, with the introduction of ascended gear, to not put magic find on future gear. I don’t really think there is a place for magic find in this or any game like it. I agree with the OP that it is a flawed design to even offer magic find as a stat. It means that either the loot drops are not as good as they should be for all players, or that the extra stats on the non magic find gear is superfluous. I didn’t want to carry other players on my back to the loot train in D3 and I don’t want to do it in GW2.

Just to be clear, yes reduced contribution CAN increase the time it takes to complete a dungeon. IF players are dying repeatedly due to reduced stats PRODUCTIVE stats, that does delay dungeon completion. Of course the amount of the delay is extremely variable due to variable player skill. The issue is why allow one or two magic find mules to drag the other productive players down unwillingly? That metric ton of magic find you are running around with has no benefit to the rest of the group, that is providing a direct benefit to you as they carry you and your ton of personal loot to victory….that is the definition of leeching in a game like this.

Please consider adding a clear color dye. I’d like this as an option to hide certain parts of existing armor pieces. Examples would be the tunic/skirt thing that is attached to various armors. I also just acquired an exotic chest piece that has a rather ugly backing to the actual metallic part of the chest piece. I would love it if I could just make that part clear/invisible.

I can’t agree with the OP at all about this topic. There is only one profession that I hope to be in every dungeon party I join, and that is at least one guardian…preferably two guardians. Those are the smoothest runs for me every time. The group healing output, damage absorption, condition cleansing, etc is just amazing. I actually just rolled a guardian because I was so jealous of guardian’s survivability over my warrior. The difference in traits alone is huge in terms of survivability. The amount of group support from traits is huge, and they don’t have to worry about awkward mechanics like banners. Granted, I trait primarily for dps on my warrior, and a similarly traited guardian has less in terms of dps. I cannot see the “underpowered in dungeons” issue that you are talking about at all.

Just because some people are going crazy with with real money gem purchases exchanging for gold, does not mean the majority are not struggling for sufficient gold to buy cultural armor. I left Diablo 3 for good reason. Yeah..if you spend your time in game trying to speculate on item prices and constantly monitoring the TP prices…instead of actually experiencing the content…then yeah..you can probably make gold doing that too. I prefer to actually play the game instead of trying to win at economics. That being said, I do believe there should be an option to purchase via karma instead of gold. Gold is very slow to acquire in this game and I think the majority of players would agree with that.

Justify the lack of need to provide players an expedient way to find adequate grouping for pve content outside of friends/guild lists. How about make a single statement that isn’t already preloaded with bias towards your own personal hate issues towards other players btw? Prove that adding a functional group finder would actually kill anything in GW2. You did not give any option to bring anything to GW2, you simply found a way to hate on anyone that wanted it added by suggesting that they be punished/penalized for wanting to have it. Stop comparing other games to WoW btw. This is not wow and if you want to play wow so bad…go play it. Yes, there are a lot of things GW2 can do, but I’m pretty sure taking a kitten on their players isn’t one of them.

People like you are funny. You spend so much time and effort trying to keep anyone else from having anything when it has nothing to do with you. One would think you would get tired of spending your efforts trying to limit the options of others for no clear reason. Feel free to spam away in map chat until you reach the chat suppression limit. In fact, I have an idea. How about they charge you gems to look for groups in map chat. I think that would be an excellent idea since you think its up to you to decide how others should spend their gems.

Grok Krog.9581:

I wouldn’t mind this. No one is really over 90% health long. However, it is only a 5 point trait skill so we shouldn’t be expecting too much from it.

Maybe a toughness increase while Endurance is not full? But it shouldn’t be an amazing amount of toughness. Changed or not, it’s ok

The second trait slot in defense offers something that should be giving us toughness (turtle’s defense), but it only works in the short duration when we don’t remove conditions off of ourselves…which we do frequently anway.

Regardless of all the “its fine” trolls that all these games seem to attract, I think this definitely needs to be changed to something that is useful beyond the first time you take damage.

Even if this is the first trait in the defense tree, its 5 trait points to get this and the next 5 trait points in defense is almost as bad as this one. I prefer to not try and face tank stuff on my warrior, so I trait more for offense than defense. That being said, I’ve gone 15 trait points into defense to get adrenal health. I’m not traiting to be a glass cannon on purpose, but the lack luster nature of the first 10 trait points is leaving me as a glass cannon anyway. Its not like I haven’t made a significant investment (half of the defense trait line) in defense, so I think I should get some bang for my trait bucks.

I think the decrease in condition duration would be a great idea, but not the only possible change for Thick Skin. Another idea would be for Thick Skin to not change the duration of conditions, but reduce the damage of conditions. This second option would not affect CC on warriors, but would only affect the damage dealing conditions. This would help a lot considering how much trouble warriors specifically have with condition damage. Currently the defense tree offers nothing in the way of removing or preventing condition damage…would be a nice change to have that available in the defense tree.

I just think the first 10 traits in defense are entirely too situational. Extra armor when you don’t really need it, not when you actually need it (thick skin). Toughness only when CCed, when you are going to remove those CCs as quickly as possible anyway (turtle’s defense). Stance duration increase by 25%…if you have any stances on your slot skills…nothing if you don’t (sure footed). Rally with a little more health than normal…only works when you just got downed and managed not to die completely (vigorous return). Reflect missiles when you are blocking…only good if you are using a shield and only when using the block ability (missile deflection). How about something that we get some actual high mileage from for 10 trait point investment? Something that isn’t dependent on an alignment of all the planets in the solar system?

I’d even be happier if our last stand, not available until the 4th defensive trait slot, actually prevented the statuses it deals with..instead of only activating after we have suffered the ill effects.

I’d like to know why there has to be a choice between dps stats and survival stats on gear? I see no reason why all the necessary stats for being a melee damage dealer are not on the gear pieces. I can see them having varying degrees of how much of toughness/vitality you get on primary dps gear versus how much power/precision you get on more tank oriented gear, but why is there literally no toughness/vitality on so much of the dps gear? The current formula apparently limits the gear to 3 primary stats, but this seems a bit off for melee…since you are guaranteed to be taking more damage in melee range.

Lutharr.1035:

They can still be used as skins which is what Im asking for. Not bothered about their current stats.

yeah..I was so bothered about the fact that they were all heal items, that I forgot about using them for skins.

Its an easy choice for me unfortunately….every one of the items has zero power on it…only healing power. That means my token will not be spent.

Even with this being the first bit of love they have given..there is still this huge list of warrior issues that have not been addressed.

Well currently thieves seem to be more reliable in melee combat…than warriors due to high dps and survivability (from avoidance apparently). The same can be said for guardian’s survivability…not sure how their dps ranks. Both of these professions are getting a pass on the constant death’s that any dps traited warrior is currently experiencing. I can deal with not having heavy armor actually be heavy armor for us, but I think warriors do need some survival love without making us go kitten dps mode.

I’m not traiting glass cannon on purpose….I’ve gone 15 points into defense. It would be nice if we could get that survival from reliable slot skills and early traits…especially since it seems to be the general consensus that our armor type should not provide extra survivability.

I’m looking at traits like last stand, that lets all of those negative effects actually happen and only activates after the negative thing has already occurred. Thick skin, that only provides any benefit when we don’t really need it…when health is above 90%. Adrenal health is decent, but it sure could stand to be more effective…either increase the regeneration or add in some periodic condition removal/immunity.

Slot skills like endure pain that only block physical damage and not condition damage…which is our main concern as a dps spec.

It would be really nice to just have shouts heal by default instead of having to go all the way in on tactics to get that.

I’m still trying to understand why melee abilities have a cast time in the first place. Does my character needs to think about it to swing an axe? Melee combat is fast paced and inherently more dangerous than ranged combat. I can see having minimal cast times as a ranged caster, but as a melee combatant?!? They already go out of their way to make sure not to make warriors durable enough for sustained melee fighting…the least they can do is to let our abilities work when we click them..not seconds later.

Most of the delays I’ve been experiencing have been cast time delays and some lag. I’m ok with the animation delays on abilities…that should be there for interruption purposes.

Its not like putting delays on melee abilities will stop botting…any coder worth being a coder will know how to insert pause delays. Please take off the cast times on melee abilities Anet. It irritates me to no end to have a cast time on signet of rage. I mean really….you want me to stop doing everything else to wait for my buff to be applied..in the middle of melee combat?!?

Obvious troll is obvious? Profession X looses a pvp match up and comes immediately to the forums claiming to be the class he lost to…claiming profession Y needs to be nerfed. We’ve never seen that before.

What exactly do you want warriors to do….slap the enemy with wet noodles? Eviscerate is already a one trick pony that isn’t even doing the damage it should. No secondary effects like the other burst abilities for different weapons. Whirlwind axe is already clearly sub par in damage output vs the GS hundred blades aoe. Your argument for being able to weapon swap is a moot point as everyone has that ability.

I mean really, stop exaggerating damage numbers because you lost to a warrior in pvp.

I run the same weapon set up as you do. I aim for power/precision/critical damage for my gear, but the optimal set up would probably be power/precision…then a mix with toughness and vitality. As I understand it, toughness does not mitigate condition damage at all..only vitality helps with that. I just adjusted my build recently to http://www.gw2db.com/skill-builds/1925-dual-axe-deeps . I still die a lot in dungeons as my gear is not up to par yet and as a result my vitality and toughness are low.