Guild Wars 2

If you cancel your burst ability, like with stow. You still get the berserkers power buff without using the adrenaline and proper cd.

Caedmon.6798:

haha the rifle/bow…i did that aswell with some duels…How pointless but so fun to still win lol ;d

Haha yeah, it’s super fun, especially when it actually works xD

Hey ho!!

Here’s a warrior dueling compilation montage thingy

Hope so. Cuz shoutbow isn’t warrior…

Oh nice! thanks for clarifying that. Thought it was, every burst ability (different weapons) share cd xD Now I dont’ have to quit warrior \o/

Eyoo

Here’s a pvp match with gs/hammer, not the best performance, at all, just thought the game was quite nice Many fails included

Build in description

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNAR3ejMdUGaXIWhwJagqgC9iHAbt6eoxj9UbAA-TpBHwAFuAAEeAAAOCADOIAl2foZZAA

Happy rekking

What everyone claiming fast hand should not be made baseline implies:

That we all should have 1 weapon, only 1 weapon attack, no utility and no traits. Every class. Cuz I could use vigor on struck and kitten, while playing warrior. So elementalists and guards cannot have it at all, cuz other classes can also use it! Thief mesmer and ranger should not be allowed to have stealth! Why? because other classes would also benefit from having free stealth.
This is the same, when u complain about fast hands, because other classes also benefits from it… OFC THEY DO. So u want us all to be the same? Neutral? Let’s remove all classes and make it one, don’t u think?

Sebrent.3625:

Obindo, my problem with your posts is this … you just say that “everyone will take it” … but don’t provide why. Previously you mentioned do be able to use all that adrenaline, but Burst Skills are on a 10s base cooldown (probably lower given the Specialization changes … see Attunement cooldown reductions, stats removed from traitlines, etc.).

You say that after using all your skills you have to wait 7s before you can use another one unless you have fast hands … but every other class deals with that too so why don’t they need fast hands too?

Now, I understand the concept of making Fast Hands baseline so that people don’t feel like they have to take Discipline to get Fast Hands … but why do people feel like they need that?

I still have no seen any good reason that is “warrior only”. Every point that has been made has been an anecdote, is shared with several other (if not all) classes, or is simply an opinion with nothing backing it up. Not one reason why warrior alone needs fast hands as baseline.

Burst skills have an cooldown of around 8-10 sec, 10 without any reduction from trait. Weapon swapping is 4.5 sec cd withfast hand. 4.5 + 4.5 = 9. It’s not a cd on the adrenaline to be used, but on the actual skill on each weapon.

It’s of course not only burst skills that is good with this. Other skills aswell, like pin down or backbreaker can be used. Warrior play is very combination-like with it’s skills, and used in quick succession, then to swap weapons, to use other skills, while they recharge, and then when those are used u swap back to the mainly recharged cd’s and u can start over basically. For example: If u’re on a gs/hammer build; Earthshaker → #4 → #5 → #2 → weapon swap → arcing slice (→ whirlwind perhaps). So, what I meant with the 7s (wich was perhaps exaggerated in that it’s situational) is that if u do combos in succession, wich warrior does with it’s weapons, u’ll be left running around for many seconds when u can’t weapon swap, autoattacking, being a training dummy, vulnerable and rather useless.
Let’s compare mesmer as example. Their attacks are quit independant, there are ofc some plausible combos, like immob on sword → gs and burst on shatter, but it’s not reliant on it and it can do other thing instead with that immob in this case.
For example, no greatsword skill is dependant, or atleast, far more effective, in conjunction with other abilities, and on swapping to another weapons set. It’s not like the phantasm does more dmg or can only be sure to hit, if you used what? the aoe? Ofc there is the knockback but that’s not the point, and it’s not a combo initiater, like a hammer cc on warr.

Warriors are also very vulnerable, with no stealth, port invuln, mad thief dodges e.t.c, We can’t prolong the action till the point where u can weapon swap. Like stealthing. We’re basically just an opportunity of burst most of the time, a training dummy.
It’s not like every class is the same, everyone is neutral, but warr, only warr has something more, fast hands. They work different ways, and fast hands is a way to compliment to it’s playstyle.

Thus we are reliant on fast hands to be effective, hence having to take discipline

Maybe this is ‘anecdote’ again, but I won’t sit and analyze and explain with 10 pages, to have you understand my thoughts. There is far more to it, but as I said, I won’t spend hours on explaining the whole game.

- Ofc just my opinions, altho I think most warrs would agree with me.

Caedmon.6798:

Obindo.6802:

Caedmon.6798:

Obindo.6802:

Caedmon.6798:

Obindo.6802:

Caedmon.6798:

Lordmoppdog.6341:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GINSDxxc64

Thanks for duels Vaanss although they were really long xD

I’d have to agree,the kiting in there is just stupid to say the least,you’re playing on a small kitten map for god sake,you’re not in wvw.Too much 3 – 5 and passive regen.That’s not a duel,that’s playing cat & mouse while being Really dependant on healsig and adren hp regen.

Play warr, duel another good warr, nuff said

I do for the past 3 years.

Then, no offense, you’ve never dueled a good warr, or u’re still bad at it yourself.

That is an offense,as you know aswell.You can’t make a statement like that,“Sorry no offense but youre a terrible player,just because i disagree with what you said !”while not knowing who you’re talking too,not knowing anything about the player his build or the style he prefers playing,but just saying someone is bad because you disagree with something being said,is a non statement.I don’t like the way they prefer playing,i can be positive about vaans vids,but not about this..I know you need to kite when it comes to 1vx with his build,but doing the same thing vs 1 player. That’s not how i play,or prefer to play,is all.

I rather claimed that u’ve not dueled a good warr, or, (as I admit I said) you’d probably have to, rather, not be as good. I don’t quite understand what u mean with “I know you need to kite when it comes to 1vx with his build,but doing the same thing vs 1 player”.
Seems to me like u say something like. “When a bread is a bread it is a bread, but when the bread is a bread it’s not a bread”. Anyways, then what is your play style then? In warr vs warr, hammers perhaps? Eat every stun?

Makes no sense when you don’t know who you’re talking too,or who the player did duel in all that time,you never knew him.Besides there’s a difference in avoiding a spike,or simply running your kitten all over the map to constantly let the regen do the work,it’s cheap.Also im not here to proof a thing,i made a comment at the OP,some internetwarrior telling me i’m bad is the least of my concerns.All i had to say is in my previous comment,there’s nothing too add and again,i’m not here to proof anything.

To me u imply that playing the way they are, is lame, skillles and maybe also bad… Wich it really isn’t, theese are great warrs, and playing like this is just proof of it.

Caedmon.6798:

Obindo.6802:

Caedmon.6798:

Obindo.6802:

Caedmon.6798:

Lordmoppdog.6341:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GINSDxxc64

Thanks for duels Vaanss although they were really long xD

I’d have to agree,the kiting in there is just stupid to say the least,you’re playing on a small kitten map for god sake,you’re not in wvw.Too much 3 – 5 and passive regen.That’s not a duel,that’s playing cat & mouse while being Really dependant on healsig and adren hp regen.

Play warr, duel another good warr, nuff said

I do for the past 3 years.

Then, no offense, you’ve never dueled a good warr, or u’re still bad at it yourself.

That is an offense,as you know aswell.You can’t make a statement like that,“Sorry no offense but youre a terrible player,just because i disagree with what you said !”while not knowing who you’re talking too,not knowing anything about the player his build or the style he prefers playing,but just saying someone is bad because you disagree with something being said,is a non statement.I don’t like the way they prefer playing,i can be positive about vaans vids,but not about this..I know you need to kite when it comes to 1vx with his build,but doing the same thing vs 1 player. That’s not how i play,or prefer to play,is all.

I rather claimed that u’ve not dueled a good warr, or, (as I admit I said) you’d probably have to, rather, not be as good. I don’t quite understand what u mean with “I know you need to kite when it comes to 1vx with his build,but doing the same thing vs 1 player”.
Seems to me like u say something like. “When a bread is a bread it is a bread, but when the bread is a bread it’s not a bread”. Anyways, then what is your play style then? In warr vs warr, hammers perhaps? Eat every stun?

Sebrent.3625:

Obindo.6802:

What I mean is rather that warrior weapons are less independent and as I said rely on each other to be successful so even if u still can do skullcrack without fast hands… you will only be able to be effective a short period of time every 10 sec.
I dunno how else to explain if u still aren’t able to understand it

I understand your point just fine. I don’t think it’s sufficient … hence the multiple counterpoints which you aren’t addressing.

Why do you need to be able to do such a combo every 5s instead of every 10s when other classes also have weapon skills they’d like to combo with their class mechanic that do suffer from the 10s weapon swap?

Heck, for a Mesmer to get a 3 illusion shatter they either have to trait Deceptive Evasion or weapon swap unless their opponent (1) loves to attack into blocks like a noob and (2) their opponent doesn’t cleave illusions or (3) they take a utility to provide another illusion … even more so if they want to shatter again soon after the first.

Depending on weapon sets, a Necromancer’s Life Force generation is hindered by waiting for cooldowns on weapon skills that provide Life Force. That weapon swap hinders them too.

F1 skills aside, there are plenty of weapon skill combinations that each class has where they want to swap from one weapon to the other for it. The only class that is doing better than Warrior with Fast Hands is Engineer. Elementalist, whose class mechanic is multiple weapon sets, still suffers a greater than 5s swap even with a full investment in arcana.

Would it be nice to have kitten weapon swap baseline? Heck, yes.

Is it necessary to have kitten weapon swap baseline? I have yet to see a sound argument why it is necessary.

Well, the warrs cd’s are quick and in succession, like the hammer. U will have to use all (ofc u don’t ‘have’ to) and to run around with auto attack for 7 seconds, while warr still is a melee hit dummy (bow is just cancer, has still kitten auto attack anyways), will just make us useless. Apart from other classes.

You want a argument why it should be made baseline:
Removing it = ruins wars.
Having it as a trait will ruin build diversity, why? because EVERYONE will take it, unless they take some troll kitten build, or pve ofc (pvp/wvw perspective). So, as it is now. Everyone will take discipline, making it baseline, only means that there will be potentially 1 more trait that gets in effect, if u think of fast hands as a trait. And think of that everyone is getting a general buff? And if it’s too much (which it isn’t imo), it’s called balancing, it’s not out yet, the baseline, would just be a slight slight buff, and some more build diversity, where Discipline isn’t mandatory. Compared to other classes being made baseline (I have no clue here, only seen others got many), I believe that others got thing being made baseline, where they otherwise, would not have all of those things at once, mesmer especially I think. We’ve gotten no baseline trait. Not meaning to QQ, just that warrior is not the only one getting a buff. Their idea is to make more build diversity as well, and whilst buffing, why not make fast hands baseline at the same time? that’s a win win, and better for the game.

Ofc just my opinion, and no offense, I think any other opinion is stupid.

Caedmon.6798:

Obindo.6802:

Caedmon.6798:

Lordmoppdog.6341:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GINSDxxc64

Thanks for duels Vaanss although they were really long xD

I’d have to agree,the kiting in there is just stupid to say the least,you’re playing on a small kitten map for god sake,you’re not in wvw.Too much 3 – 5 and passive regen.That’s not a duel,that’s playing cat & mouse while being Really dependant on healsig and adren hp regen.

Play warr, duel another good warr, nuff said

I do for the past 3 years.

Then, no offense, you’ve never dueled a good warr, or u’re still bad at it yourself.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Active on that warrior healing signet is pretty pathetic. I delay use as long as possible.

It will come in the expansion, Heart of Thorns

Caedmon.6798:

Lordmoppdog.6341:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GINSDxxc64

Thanks for duels Vaanss although they were really long xD

I’d have to agree,the kiting in there is just stupid to say the least,you’re playing on a small kitten map for god sake,you’re not in wvw.Too much 3 – 5 and passive regen.That’s not a duel,that’s playing cat & mouse while being Really dependant on healsig and adren hp regen.

Play warr, duel another good warr, nuff said

ronpierce.2760:

Obindo.6802:

ronpierce.2760:

Shala.8352:

Just saying if fast HANDS was so OP, every class meta would have warrior runes.

5 sec swap versus 8 second swap is incredibly different. 5 second swap allows you to run twice the effective sigils by varying them, where as 8 second swap does very little. One of the most powerful aspects to fast hands is that it gets 2x the Sigil power, having better ability control, better combo control and less cool down wasting are all huge perks as well, no doubt, but doubling sigil usage is a huge perk.

Actually, warr runes give 7.2 sec weapon swap, and fast hands 4.5, if I’m not mistaken.

Either way, that 5 second break point is key in doubling sigil usage, anything above that would actually delay sigil usage if you don’t wait out the ICD on the sigils before swapping.

I’m not saying otherwise, just said. And u can still double sigils, just less value, again, just saying, I’m all for fast hands and it being made baseline

ronpierce.2760:

Shala.8352:

Just saying if fast HANDS was so OP, every class meta would have warrior runes.

5 sec swap versus 8 second swap is incredibly different. 5 second swap allows you to run twice the effective sigils by varying them, where as 8 second swap does very little. One of the most powerful aspects to fast hands is that it gets 2x the Sigil power, having better ability control, better combo control and less cool down wasting are all huge perks as well, no doubt, but doubling sigil usage is a huge perk.

Actually, warr runes give 7.2 sec weapon swap, and fast hands 4.5, if I’m not mistaken.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Did anyone already find a viable warrior build without fast hands?

I dont get this posts that say that fast hands should not be made baseline. Every warrior already takes fast hands in their builds if he wants to be viable, so the only thing that would change is the build warrior takes, and that is really good.
People should not compare classes….

Nope!

I guess u can go something 6 0 6 0 2 with warr runes. Bad tho but I guess it’s ‘viable’

shynu.7081:

Warrior Specialization = Titan

Dual wielding 2 2H weapons…..

Imagine the number of people running around with 2 Twilights or 2 Sunrise or 1 Twilight/ 1 Sunrise…. sounds fun to me!
or 2 Juggernauts! =DD

2 longbows? o.O

King Noob IV.3560:

Wreckdum.8367:

Worrier is hardddddd.

Very complex gameplay loop.

no it’s not all you do is make sure the enemy is targeted than use your abilities as soon as they’re off cd

As u’ve just mentioned, you don’t play warr, so please…

Hvaran.6327:

noice jiob man! add some mlg so NA will be interested in watching EU warriors.

power warriors <3

Thanks a lot! And yeh, maybe soon! I’ve been doing bad (worse) recently, I think cuz I’m bored and as I said unmotivated of gw2, hopefully that will change now. I remember the peak of my ‘skill’ was after a break and came back after playing a whole ‘nother game. Maybe I’ll take a break from gw2

The Baws.5164:

Nice videos and duels – I really enjoyed watching them. Some really good players on there too

Awesome job.

Wow! Thanks alot!

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

I agree with Fast Hands I feel almost every warrior build will have to pick the discipline line just for that trait and cripple build diversity even more when anet wants to create more diversity.

Yay, you are not dumb

Hello there!

Recently I’ve been feeling quite unmotivated to play gw2 with Heart of Thorns coming out. So I decided to do this to keep myself from getting super bored and quit playing.
I don’t expect anything and I don’t imply some fictional perception that I’m a great warr… just for fun :>. Anyways! here they are

#1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-N3LA084ww

#2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0Mvax0ur-w

Sebrent.3625:

You don’t require Fast Hands to do a [Skullcrack] —>[Swap] --> [Hundred Blades]. You just have to be in Mace without swap on cooldown (max 10s). Same for when you have [Leg Specialist] and use [Blade Trail] —> [Swap] --> [Eviscerate].

There is only one swap occurring in your examples.

Now, if there was some example where you [Do Something] —> [Swap] --> [Do Several Somethings that Span >5 seconds but <10 seconds] —> [Swap] --> [Do Something Else] … then great … but that looks more akin to “spamming skills as soon as they’re off cooldown”.

I have never seen a Warrior “be useless” because they had weapon swap on cooldown … especially given that Warriors have some of the highest damage coefficients in the game.

Sure, if you’re wanting to use Weapon Set 2 but are in Weapon Set 1, you’re not happy … but it’s the same for others as well. I’d give up quite a bit to have Fast Hands on my Mesmer. Please, take my stealth and give me Fast Hands.

Also, Mesmer doesn’t reduce their weapon swap time by being in stealth … nothing reduces weapon swap time except Fast Hands (Warrior only) and Warrior Runes.

What I mean is rather that warrior weapons are less independent and as I said rely on each other to be successful so even if u still can do skullcrack without fast hands… you will only be able to be effective a short period of time every 10 sec.
I dunno how else to explain if u still aren’t able to understand it

Warrior axe autoattack

It’s not good, no fast hands, if u still wanna play the build, at least use warrior runes.

Rangers had 3 pets to swap between in beta and whatnot, if my memory is not betraying me. And they changed it, of a good reason i think. I think it will impair freedom and how effective the swapping will be. Let’s say u got weapon set x,y and then z. Warriors use combos between weapons. What if I do something in X, and wanna combo it with a weapon on Z, or maybe I’m on X again, and wanna swap to Z for a block? Y will be in-between, either we can’t swap to X without a cool down being stuck in Y. Or, we will have 0 cd on weapon swap, which would actually work. Maybe a grandmaster trait that has super fast hands and the third weapon set? If we don’t have that 0 weapon swap time, it’s just an impairing mechanic. You can of course add separate keybindings for warr, 3 separate keybindings for each weapon set… seems unlikely tho to me.

Sebrent.3625:

Juba.8406:

Because Warriors are masters of weaponry ?

So you’re going with lore? Please see the multiple places where other classes’ gameplay doesn’t match the lore. Also, where in the definition for “weapon master” does it say “swaps weapons constantly”.

I do believe the other classes in the game are the masters of their respective weapons as well … why can’t a Ranger swap Longbow to Shortbow and back every 5s?

Why can’t Elementalist swap attunements every 5s? They are the masters of elements.

… or maybe everyone should have Fast Hands if we’re going to use this logic …

Juba.8406:

Because Warriors are 80% melee class ?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weapon#Weapon_usability_by_professions
Mind showing how you calculated that 80%?

Guardian has less range than Warrior (until their new Longbow comes out … unless Warriors get a new Ranged weapon too).

• Compare Scepter (1,200) + Staff (600 AA, 1,200 #2/#3) versus Rifle (1,200) and Longbow (1,000 / 1,200 traited).

Thief has less range than Warrior

• Compare Shortbow (900) and Pistol (900 / 1,050 traited) versus Rifle (1,200) and Longbow (1,000 / 1,200 traited).

Since you’re using this as an argument for having baseline Fast Hands … why don’t Thief and Guardian warrant Fast Hands as a baseline as well?

Juba.8406:

Because Warriors got no AI ?

Because the AI in GW2 is so awesome and the classes that leverage it (forced or voluntarily) don’t complain about the bad AI at all, right? :-p

I’m sure plenty of classes with AI would gladly give it to you in exchange for Fast Hands as a trait.

Juba.8406:

Because Warriors got no stealth, teleports, instant cast attacks, protection, regeneration, aegis, perma evades or combo fields ?

And we could go to each class in turn and list the things they don’t have … though your Warrior does have Regeneration, Combo Fields, built-in evades, etc.

Does a class not having access to several things other classes have warrant it needing Fast Hands? … because then we should likely just give Fast Hands to everyone.

Juba.8406:

Because leaving Fast Hands as its now means every warrior will have to trait Discipline ?

Please explain why they “have to trait Discipline” ? Why can a warrior not be stuck in a given weapon set for 5 more seconds like everyone else?

Juba.8406:

Because Warriors got 00000000.00 ZERO Baseline traits ?

Is warrior having trouble being part of PvE Meta? Nope, solidly part of it.
Is warrior having trouble being part of sPvP Meta? Nope, solidly part of it.
Is warrior having trouble being part of WvW Meta? Nope, solidly part of it.

So why exactly do you feel like you needed something baseline?
Perhaps you should focus more on what you did get instead of acting petulantly about the fact that classes that are barely part of a single meta (if any meta at all) received something baseline.

Heck, we’ll ignore the fact that given the decoupling of stats from specializations, you can take whatever +% damage traits you want for any weapon and not sacrifice Power, Precision, Ferocity, etc..

We’ll also ignore the +20% crit chance that Sword is getting from its traits again bleeding targets … or the numerous other traits that were largely improved for Warrior and opened the doors for some very nice things.

Oh poor Warrior … we are solid in every mode in the game but obviously still need more love … because … well, we’ll get to that later … but we need it … trust us …

This is the same crap that was spewed all over the forums when adrenaline was nerfed to decay out of combat … so many people claiming that it was going to ruin warriors … here we are a considerable amount of time after with that change still in place … Warriors are still solid everywhere … still awesome … still kicking in teeth.

Completely disagree. We more or less reliant on our weapons abilities and combinations between them, to swap between them, for example skullcrack —> 100b. Or blade trail with leg specialist --> swap —> evis. Without the weapon swap we are useless, and with longer cd, we’ll do nothing but being target dummies auto attacking and can’t do those combos. We suffer from not having, and need fast hands more than any other class… We can’t reduce the weapon swap time, by being non-engaged, like a shatter mesmer can reduce the swap time by going in stealth e.t.c… we are always there, available to be attacked… U can say shield block fills same role, but no… it’s to neglect dmg, not disengage.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

It’s called balancing. When a class is as good as Warrior, it didn’t need any baseline traits added, because its already in a good place, more so with the HoT trait updates. All those baseline traits that were added were balances to bring those classes UP to where Warrior already is.

Mesmer really needed a speed buff, they are slower than Guards, nothing is as mobile as Warrior.

You don’t have to take Discipline. Fast Hands is such a good trait that you automatically want it and the other traits in the line are good too, so you choose that line. What is the problem? You have to actually make a choice between really good traits? What is the reason you have to have it? It is THAT good. Which is also the reason it shouldn’t be baseline.

Warrior is arguably the weakest class in the game atm, often, vs good players, we’d just be target dummies

Here it comes again, maybe u can understand for once but seems you are unable to understand, so u probably won’t. That’s okay, more laughter 4 me

It’s the same principle that minor traits should no longer be weaker, they should play the role for traits that are essential for that trait line, where choice is redundant or neutralizes the purpose of the trait line. So ppl complaining about minors being too powerful, cuz they’re minors, is just stupid, they should be the strong ones imo.
One step further, fast hands which is essential for WARRIORS should be made baseline, or they make the choice redundant as well, everyone will go discipline. If fast hands is made baseline, there will be far more build diversity (in pvp/wvw mainly). 6 6 6 0 0 ?.
So yeah, fast hands should be made baseline, it opens up far more build diversity. You can say that a “minor” is too strong to be made baseline, but since everyone will go in discipline anyways to get fast hands, so the only thing that we’ll “gain” in buff is 1 minor trait (to be replaced in fast hand’s place). Wich also can be worked around, that’s why it’s called balancing. Or not, cuz remember that everyone’s getting buffed, not just warr…
It’s not nessecarily a “buff” in that manner, u get 1 more trait (balancing! – or not, that might actually be part of the balancing), which also opens up far more build diversity.
But it’s not overpowered as a “minor” in the games current pre-buff state

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Just explain why it is essential to Warrior. Any reason you come up with can as easily be applied to any other class. It is an incredibly powerful trait and should not be baseline. You have a trait that makes your weapon swaps recharge in HALF the time, its amazing, be grateful it exists at all!

Warrior doesn’t need stealth, or teleports or clones. Instead of those things, you have the most health, heavy armor, awesome mobility, Cleaning Ire/Brawlers Recovery and things like Endure/Defy Pain, Last Stand, Berserkers/Defiant Stance etc.

Stances sucks, we have no good utility generally… high hp and armor is far inferior to stealth, port invuln, if u disagree I rofl hard at you…

Warrior needs fast hands because of our weapon skills, they’re short physical abilities that let combos with other weapons, best example would be skullcrack…

It’s the same principle that minor traits should no longer be weaker, they should play the role for traits that are essential for that trait line, where choice is redundant or neutralizes the purpose of the trait line. So ppl complaining about minors being too powerful, cuz they’re minors, is just stupid, they should be the strong ones imo.
One step further, fast hands which is essential for WARRIORS should be made baseline, or they make the choice redundant as well, everyone will go discipline. If fast hands is made baseline, there will be far more build diversity (in pvp/wvw mainly). 6 6 6 0 0 ?.
So yeah, fast hands should be made baseline, it opens up far more build diversity. You can say that a “minor” is too strong to be made baseline, but since everyone will go in discipline anyways to get fast hands, so the only thing that we’ll “gain” in buff is 1 minor trait (to be replaced in fast hand’s place). Wich also can be worked around, that’s why it’s called balancing. Or not, cuz remember that everyone’s getting buffed, not just warr…
It’s not nessecarily a “buff” in that manner, u get 1 more trait (balancing! – or not, that might actually be part of the balancing), which also opens up far more build diversity.
But it’s not overpowered as a “minor” in the games current pre-buff state

Maybe u wanna get this one more time Or u might be mentally disabled.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I wrote in the bold:

PistolWhip.2697:

1. What is a good spot right now doesn’t matter with the huge revamps to every class. The meta will shift all over the place, all people can do is be pre-emptive irrespective of profession.
War will still be in the top 3

2. Spiked armor isn’t incredibly powerful which is why rarely any warrior takes it.

• It IS incredibly powerful in a minor slot. It doesn’t get taken now because it is competing with Defy, as you said. To give it out as a minor is fantastically OP.*

3. So as you can see none of these classes are objectively outcast all over the place.
You obviously didnt read that I stated they are good at roaming. None have a position in ANY meta outside of that.

As a Ranger main, I can say the changes we got are very good, but I would give those changes just to get a GM trait the same as Fast Hands, its incredible. Anyone asking for it to be made baseline literally cares nothing about balance.

I’ll just copy this to anyone who’s stupid enough to claim warr should not have fast hands made baseline:

It’s the same principle that minor traits should no longer be weaker, they should play the role for traits that are essential for that trait line, where choice is redundant or neutralizes the purpose of the trait line. So ppl complaining about minors being too powerful, cuz they’re minors, is just stupid, they should be the strong ones imo.
One step further, fast hands which is essential for WARRIORS should be made baseline, or they make the choice redundant as well, everyone will go discipline. If fast hands is made baseline, there will be far more build diversity (in pvp/wvw mainly). 6 6 6 0 0 ?.
So yeah, fast hands should be made baseline, it opens up far more build diversity. You can say that a “minor” is too strong to be made baseline, but since everyone will go in discipline anyways to get fast hands, so the only thing that we’ll “gain” in buff is 1 minor trait (to be replaced in fast hand’s place). Wich also can be worked around, that’s why it’s called balancing. Or not, cuz remember that everyone’s getting buffed, not just warr…
It’s not nessecarily a “buff” in that manner, u get 1 more trait (balancing! – or not, that might actually be part of the balancing), which also opens up far more build diversity.
But it’s not overpowered as a “minor” in the games current pre-buff state

ronpierce.2760:

Juba.8406:

ronpierce.2760:

Juba.8406:

ronpierce.2760:

Wolfe.3097:

so what i gather, is we shouldnt have viable alternative choices in builds?

But that doesn’t mean it’s impossible to be successful without.

Yes its impossible.

i dont think you play warrior, i think you just want warriors locked down in Discipline just like what we have currently.

I can prove otherwise…

still waiting for that prove.

There, second most played (By FAR) is Warrior, Champ Legionnaire, PVE main.

While you’re having you’re pitty party, I’m not saying Fasthands isn’t great or even in some cases completely necessary. I’m saying that’d be the case for ANY class with this trait and it’s incredibly OP as a minor trait, you should consider yourself lucky rather than crying to make everything baseline. If everything went baseline that people felt was a staple they’d have to make Sleight of Hands, Elemental Attunements, Vital Persistence (+Foot in the Grave), and so on, baseline. These traits in PVP essentially end up feeling mandatory (minus foot in the grave only because the DPS loss with DP is way too high and without it, necro wouldn’t be a threat).

I just find it sad that people have one of the best gifts in the game and still manage to find a reason to complain about it. Warrior has a #1 use in PVE, WvW, and sPVP, the class is freaking great. And even if FH went baseline many of these builds would still go into Discipline because of Burst Mastery or otherwise.

You’re asking for a buff and covering it up with a buzzword “diversity” just because it increases your odds of getting your buff. Sometimes things are just too good to let go, but that doesn’t mean the base-line needs a huge buff… EVERYONE wants fast hands, you’d think you’d take some enjoyment in having it… You’re acting like the kids who complain when they get only 1 of the 2 $1,000 dollar presents they wanted for Christmas…

It’s the same principle that minor traits should no longer be weaker, they should play the role for traits that are essential for that trait line, where choice is redundant or neutralizes the purpose of the trait line. So ppl complaining about minors being too powerful, cuz they’re minors, is just stupid, they should be the strong ones imo.
One step further, fast hands which is essential for WARRIORS should be made baseline, or they make the choice redundant as well, everyone will go discipline. If fast hands is made baseline, there will be far more build diversity (in pvp/wvw mainly). 6 6 6 0 0 ?.
So yeah, fast hands should be made baseline, it opens up far more build diversity. You can say that a “minor” is too strong to be made baseline, but since everyone will go in discipline anyways to get fast hands, so the only thing that we’ll “gain” in buff is 1 minor trait (to be replaced in fast hand’s place). Wich also can be worked around, that’s why it’s called balancing. Or not, cuz remember that everyone’s getting buffed, not just warr…
It’s not nessecarily a “buff” in that manner, u get 1 more trait (balancing! – or not, that might actually be part of the balancing), which also opens up far more build diversity.
But it’s not overpowered as a “minor” in the games current pre-buff state

In my opinion the trait leg specialist should be moved into the adept selection in the strength line?

Currently I don’t see a scenario where a build, that benefits from leg specialist would go into tactics. And the adept traits in strength arent that attractive for the most parts, the fall dmg is pretty much worthless for combat, and the other two only benefit when u have physical abilities (restorative strength is sorta redundant if u get resistance. People will be forced to use physical abilities, or feel like they loose out on a trait like this, in my opinion. And as I said, leg specialist fits far better here, in strength line, and builds that benefit from leg specialist will likely go into strength anyways.

Note: This is just my opinion of course, I might be completely wrong and it would be bad, but I really want this to happen.

Cygnus.6903:

Obindo.6802:

It’s no problem running without defense at all… in pvp/wvw. And it’s not “ineffective” you know, not running defense, doesn’t mean you can’t run anything else.
Watch Vaanss for example (youtube). He’s good example
Why is it bad to run without defense? tell me!

If we are talking viability, then Vaanss would probably agree that what he does is not as viable as it could be. It is just a lot of fun and very challenging. By no means ‘effective’ though. Any half decent condi player will rip him a new one.

1. - I don’t find it suboptimal at all whilst playing it.
2. - I don’t imply that it is optimal either, I just commented how he seemingly implied that you can’t run without defense or it’s impossible to win an 1v1.

nicknamenick.2437:

Obindo.6802:

You don’t have to run Defense line at all.

pvp/pve/wvw?

In pve no you dont, you can go full offensive yolo..

Pvp? sure you can walk without it…. if you like to run away all the time.
Without defensive traitline you must build FULL offensive and hope you can nuke your opponent before he does.

It’s no problem running without defense at all… in pvp/wvw. And it’s not “ineffective” you know, not running defense, doesn’t mean you can’t run anything else.
Watch Vaanss for example (youtube). He’s good example
Why is it bad to run without defense? tell me!

You don’t have to run Defense line at all.

Juba.8406:

oh my.

The Chronomancer (mesmer specialization) is getting a minor trait called:
Time Marches On – You move 25% faster. The duration of incoming movement-impairing conditions is reduced by 25%. (Cripple. Chilled, Immobilize).

^^^
(Warrior Sprint + weaker version of Dogged March) in one trait, A MINOR TRAIT

Not trying to defend mesmer or anything. But because it’s minor, doesn’t mean it should be weaker, it just indicates something that is not choice, where u don’t get to pick whether to have it or not, something perhaps defining to that trait line, it’s like 1 smaller step from making something baseline.

This is just my opinion, given the new system, since u will get everything in a line anyways, no reason for them to be “weaker”

FalconBeta.9185:

Eiland.1405:

FalconBeta.9185:

Having the adrenaline on hit be baseline would make any other adrenaline gaining trait/skill useless in PvP

They are useless anyhow, please tell which one of them do u currently use? axe extra gain? the passive 2lines everry 3sec? those triats suck big time and no one is using them for a reason. Sorry but bad argument.

FalconBeta.9185:

There’s no doubting that most warrior builds use fast hands; however, making it baseline would be completely broken and not make any sense. Warriors weapon swapping uses the same mechanic as other professions. Making it faster ‘just cause’ wouldn’t make sense.

Wrong again. every warrior build ever uses fast hand, otherwise just play a guard or ranger, it IS Class defining. I promise you still won’t see builds without it, so this just kitten our build diversity.

Just because Fast hands is a good trait does not make it “class defining”. Add a -5 second weapon swap to any other profession that can swap weapons and tell me it won’t become “defining”. Giving warrior a baseline buff on weapon swapping, a mechanic shared by most other professions in the game, simply because the trait is good is not a good enough reason.
How would you feel if all thieves received a permanent 3 initiative increase, or elementalist gaining boons on attunement swapping as baseline functions? Those are very build defining traits for those professions and I’m sure you wouldn’t be happy with those changes. Heck, Elementalist even got hit hard by now having to choose between Elemental attunement and evasive arcana, Two traits that the best elementalist builds currently use at the same time.
This is the exact reason why I suggested giving warrior an actual mechanic that plays around making weapon swaps faster. a Mechanic that uses warrior’s Class defining mechanic adrenaline. An idea that I got a while back when some other people suggested thieves being able to weapon swap early in exchange for Initiative (since none of their weapon skills have cooldowns), something like this, but using adrenaline, would work well with warrior. Giving warrior passive buffs (that don’t affect specific skills/weapons), like increased movement speed/weapon swapping without it being played around adrenaline is a ridiculous idea.

as for the adrenaline on hit. No, I don’t use any of those other traits. They’re completely useless and are outclasses by Cleansing Ire’s passive (which is why I said having adrenaline on hit would make them even more useless) .
Adrenaline on hit is almost good enough (maybe not in the new system) to be a trait by itself. If it were baseline, then any trait that granted extra adrenaline would forever be pointless in a PvP scenario.

The idea is that making fast hands baseline, is adding 1 more minor, because every warr build (that does not suck and is not pve) will run discipline for fast hands, so making it baseline, will make more build diversity. Sure, you can argue that “1 more trait” (btw it’s not supposed to be worse cuz it’s minor, it just means no option – now with this system) can be worked around, and it’s not this little factor that makes warrior “broken” and blablalba, it can be worked around, IF THAT WOULD BE THE CASE ( which it probably won’t ). That’s why it’s called balancing.

Just my opinion, but sorry if u disagree, but I don’t see how this is not how it should be.

Juba.8406:

MidoriMarch.8067:

warrior’s sprint trait needs to be removed.

I totally Agree.

It must get removed and be a Baseline trait.

Rekt

dszteina.8507:

I agree fast hands should be baseline. Not adrenal health though. To much free heal for baseline

Completely agree. It’s the same principle that minor traits should no longer be weaker, they should play the role for traits that are essential for that trait line, where choice is redundant or neutralizes the purpose of the trait line. So ppl complaining about minors being too powerful, cuz they’re minors, is just stupid, they should be the strong ones imo.
One step further, fast hands which is essential for WARRIORS should be made baseline, or they make the choice redundant as well, everyone will go discipline. if fast hands is made baseline, there will be far more build diversity (in pvp/wvw mainly). 6 6 6 0 0 ?.
So yeah, fast hands should be made baseline, whilst adrenal health remains, actually in my opinion an trait choice, maybe buffed. Because it’s not essential for that role ( with defense ).

Edit:
The same way, grandmaster traits should not necessarily be stronger than adepts, because u will anyways get 3 trait choices now. They should rather be structured well so you can make interesting builds that synergizes well. ( With this new trait system )

nicknamenick.2437:

Lol..

Guardian 1200 range default..

-AA Guardian is stronger

-True Shot VS Arcing Arrow
True shot does same dmg on a 4 sec CD!

-Deflecting shot VS Smoldering Arrow
Both blind your enemy
Deflecting shot 10 sec CD Dmg is very nice! 615 AND reflect arrows
Smoldering Arrow 15 sec CD Dmg is very low.. around 150

And then you have “Symbol of Energy” not bad if you think about it > its a Symbol!! (trait that gives 20% more dmg on symbols)

And then OFC

-Hunter’s Ward VS Pin down
Not really sure how this skill works but kitten its a 6 sec ring around 5 targets! sounds very nice in pvp if you setup traps before!! not only that!
But holding people in place + Traps + symbols + the traits that gives INSANE dmg on symbols etc etc.. = insane

Its like they have been looking at Warrior longbow but just made it better

I don’t think that we can compare them like this, they’re balanced differently. I completely understand your point, and this is just my opinion, it’s the same as whirling wrath vs 100b. Whirling wrath wins in dmg by quit a bunch ( I believe ) – for the time for the time being ofc. And u can move. Warrior has higher base health of a reason.
- You will probably not agree, that’s fine, I just think that it’s not unbalanced because of numbers and cd’s on some abilities, and besides, bow makes big fire field for blasts and whatnot.

Larynx.2453:

Torqiseknite.1380:

Our longbow is fine, there’s a reason everyone runs it in pvp

Literally because of Combustive Shot. That’s why. Not the weapon skills.

Pin Down is quite nice as well.

lighter.2708:

Obindo.6802:

runeblade.7514:

Obindo.6802:

runeblade.7514:

Ghotistyx.6942:

You realize metabattle isn’t the end all of builds. Burst precision has a distinct and build defining use as does burst mastery.

Metabattle is at least much more convincing than taking your word. When I tried creating different builds with it, I was sorely disappointed with that trait. It is clearly a trash trait.

I will not be listening to any typed up arguments based on speculation because I prefer evidence. You could also submit the build here and I could try it. But then you would think I would be biased if it turned out to be a terrible build.

Also, if you want my evidence:

Trash build 1
Trash build 2
The fact that there is no good builds that have Burst precision.

Now, I’ll be waiting for evidence that back up your claim that burst precision is good.

I truly feel sorry for you. And I hope you realize that metabattle is kitten.

Then contribute to it. If your builds are better than the ones in metabattle or decent enough to be stand against great builds, the site would appreciate your contribution.

So far, I’ve tested and played many pvp builds in metabattle and many of them, if not all, aren’t downright trash except the “testing” builds. That alone is enough for me to trust metabattle than some dude on the internet. A single good viable build in metabattle that has burst precision is enough for me to change my opinion. That is all it takes. If you can get bearbow in the meta/great sPvP section and the moderator allows it, then it enough for me to lose my trust in metabattle. That is all it takes.

I don’t know why you are uncomfortable with metabattle, but if you have evidence that is better than metabattle have to offer? I am all open to that. Now here is why I don’t take words of internet strangers or youtube videos.

/billnyemodeoff

Cba spending hours on that.

I don’t play to sit for a long time analyzing some weird editor writing thing that I don’t understand, would take longer to understand, or I will take days. No ty

Spending hours on what? Metabattle is actually very helpful with simple text for people to understand the builds basic function, if you can’t understand these simple phrases then it’s probably because your understanding of warrior or any other classes is very low.

I’m not talking about spending hours on reading the warrior “guides”. Talking about which, I don’t know “little” about war, quite the opposite, and I find those “guides” redundant if anything, given how obvious those “tips” are.
Anyways, I was talking about making a guide, a build, whatever, which he prompted me to do. I checked the creator/editor, whatever u wanna call it, where u make the guide. And I meant that I don’t understand it very well by my first look, I don’t “program” or whatever. So I meant, either it will take long, doing it not understanding, or it will take long time understanding it and then some time making it. You can call me lazy or whatever, I don’t care. I just won’t bother.

runeblade.7514:

Obindo.6802:

runeblade.7514:

Ghotistyx.6942:

You realize metabattle isn’t the end all of builds. Burst precision has a distinct and build defining use as does burst mastery.

Metabattle is at least much more convincing than taking your word. When I tried creating different builds with it, I was sorely disappointed with that trait. It is clearly a trash trait.

I will not be listening to any typed up arguments based on speculation because I prefer evidence. You could also submit the build here and I could try it. But then you would think I would be biased if it turned out to be a terrible build.

Also, if you want my evidence:

Trash build 1
Trash build 2
The fact that there is no good builds that have Burst precision.

Now, I’ll be waiting for evidence that back up your claim that burst precision is good.

I truly feel sorry for you. And I hope you realize that metabattle is kitten.

Then contribute to it. If your builds are better than the ones in metabattle or decent enough to be stand against great builds, the site would appreciate your contribution.

So far, I’ve tested and played many pvp builds in metabattle and many of them, if not all, aren’t downright trash except the “testing” builds. That alone is enough for me to trust metabattle than some dude on the internet. A single good viable build in metabattle that has burst precision is enough for me to change my opinion. That is all it takes. If you can get bearbow in the meta/great sPvP section and the moderator allows it, then it enough for me to lose my trust in metabattle. That is all it takes.

I don’t know why you are uncomfortable with metabattle, but if you have evidence that is better than metabattle have to offer? I am all open to that. Now here is why I don’t take words of internet strangers or youtube videos.

/billnyemodeoff

Cba spending hours on that.

I don’t play to sit for a long time analyzing some weird editor writing thing that I don’t understand, would take longer to understand, or I will take days. No ty

Larynx.2453:

Obindo.6802:

Are you implying skullcrack with 6 0 6 0 6 will be better than 6 6 0 0 6? If so I lol at you.
If not, I’m sorry. Don’t know what it is you are referring to

“as viable as skullcracker is right now”

I see identifying operative words and phrases is not your strongest area. Regardless of your reading comprehension, the point is that there will never be a viable warrior build for PvP without Defense. You have about as much sustain as a thief, and don’t have the defensive mechanics or on-demand burst to back it up. It’s simple opportunity-cost. There’s no reason to go 6 in Arms, especially for a non-condition build, ever.

Unless you want to argue Axe/Mace is suddenly gonna become a thing with the xpac, but I’d prefer my crazy after 4 am.

How is my “reading comprehension” subpar?
You replied to when I said that bursts builds could be 6/6/0/0/6 saying that it would be as viable as a build without any points in defense. Wich in itself is just idiotic. And then you also imply that 6 6 0 0 6 is worse than 6 0 6 0 6 and that you can never go without points in defense. Yes, I lol at you very hard. For skullcrack, using defense at all, will be suboptimal.

Ofc, you can try and throw idiotic assumptions once again and start an irrelevant argument. Or you can just try to understand and we could go on.

Larynx.2453:

Obindo.6802:

Larynx.2453:

Obindo.6802:

nicknamenick.2437:

Without a question GS/LB or like ALL burst melee builds also are going to be:

6/0/6/0/6

Condi is going to be:

0/6/6/6/0 or 0/6/6/0/6

And ofc shoutbow is going to be
0/0/6/6/6

And hambow:
hmmmmm well dunno because its kittened now

And thats it! we all run the same :-P

Burst builds: 6/6/0/0/6*

You’ll be about as viable as skullcracker is right now without any points in Defense.

Better*

Horrible*

Glad we settled that intelligently and maturely.

Are you implying skullcrack with 6 0 6 0 6 will be better than 6 6 0 0 6? If so I lol at you.
If not, I’m sorry. Don’t know what it is you are referring to

Hmmmm…

I don’t like the weapon swap, seems like you will only be able to apply pressure and dmg if your foe stands still and lets you.

6 0 6 0 6, dont’ use berserkers power on axe and gs. Use the sharpened axes thing, adrenaline on crit and 150 more fero (don’t use axe offhand). The insane adrenaline will have u constant burst for major dmg, pressure and cond clear