Guild Wars 2

Crapgame.6519:

Obtena.7952:

Again, it’s simply statistics here so it’s not about ‘asking for it’. Half the classes are going to be below average. You’re just biased towards your more desirable one.

If it is simply statistics as you suggest, then they pretty much have all the data they need. Just depends on what data to use. PvE doesn’t matter, nor does WvW. That leaves sPvP and that is a bigger issue altogether.

I guess you could take the seasons, look at class/group composition and then win/loss ration before finals, then look at the smaller data of finals to victor. But if this is really their gig then there are bigger issues to work around.

Look – this is no different than the two ton heavy thing called WoW and their long tenure of arena’s. Years and years of class balance issues (looking at you who started it Paladins) with every season ending in set class combos always coming out on top. It was so bad that they removed gladiator titles from 2’s and only accessible to 3 and 5 man teams. Again, balance.

Until they actually spend the money to look at the data nothing will get done. It will just be tossing food on the wall and saying what sticks is fixed…

I don’t see your position here. Yes, they have all the data they need and it only confirms what I’m saying. You can’t balance a class for specific ‘position’ in PVP; doing so would require a crystal ball. People assume the fact there are relative rankings between classes as Anet’s failure to balance PVP. That’s an absolutely ignorant point of view for any MMO where different classes exists.

You get the tools you get based on your class concept. The rank is what falls out and the result is that half are below average. There is no process that could be done in reasonable timeframe to satisfy players that would allow for the precision class balancing that would result in reasonably equivalent performances over all classes. If there was, you would see it WAY more often in MMO’s; it would actually be sold as a game feature it would be such an accomplishment.

STIHL.2489:

Obtena.7952:

STIHL.2489:

Obtena.7952:

That shows a large lack of understanding. We already know that for mounts, you need more than a skin to purchase in the gem store for them to work ingame. Anet would have to charge phenomenal amounts just to cover the dev costs for mounts.

Eh? we already have a Broom, a Flying Carpet, and a tunneler, what’s the big deal?

If that’s your definition of mounts, then /thread?

I think you and everyone else are fully aware that those are not the mounts people are after, otherwise these threads would cease to exist.

The thing is, that is what should be done to resolve the entire issue.

In the current form of GW2, everything is mainly cosmetic. Why not Mounts?

Actually, I agree but that’s not what people are asking for that I and others disagree with. Simply decreeing magic carpets and brooms as mounts will not placate them.

Einlanzer.1627:

The simple truth is that the majority of MMO players like mounts, even if the majority of GW2 players do not (which I doubt is true.)

They aren’t going to win many more mount-hating converts, but they have a chance to win a good slice of mount-loving converts.

That’s assuming they don’t die when they see the price to buy one.

I agree with that. In fact, I’ve said so myself a number of times. That doesn’t change realities of how this MMO is developed. Does anyone actually think that the behaviour that Anet devs have exhibited from the last 3 years is all the sudden going to change and they will just make amazing spirit weapons out of the blue? Not a chance! So what’s to get upset about? We have a very predictable behaviour here. No one should be surprised for sure and if it bothers people that much, you got options.

Again, it’s simply statistics here so it’s not about ‘asking for it’. Half the classes are going to be below average. You’re just biased towards your more desirable one.

STIHL.2489:

Obtena.7952:

That shows a large lack of understanding. We already know that for mounts, you need more than a skin to purchase in the gem store for them to work ingame. Anet would have to charge phenomenal amounts just to cover the dev costs for mounts.

Eh? we already have a Broom, a Flying Carpet, and a tunneler, what’s the big deal?

If that’s your definition of mounts, then /thread?

I think you and everyone else are fully aware that those are not the mounts people are after, otherwise these threads would cease to exist.

That is actually asking too much. Five classes in this game will be below average for any game element of your choice at any given time. That’s a greater than 50% chance that it’s your favourite one.

That just a matter of opinion. It’s not really possible to fulfill every player’s desire for their fav class to be top ranked for every game element or their desired skills to get buffs for reasons not aligned to the dev’s grand design. Guardian is no exception. Anyone that thinks otherwise has got to wise up on MMO’s.

STIHL.2489:

Obtena.7952:

The opposition is pretty easy to see actually. You have a developer that can’t deliver on Legendary weapons. You must see how pushing for mounts is less sensible.

Two Words: Gem Store

That shows a large lack of understanding. We already know that for mounts, you need more than a skin to purchase in the gem store for them to work ingame. Anet would have to charge phenomenal amounts just to cover the dev costs for mounts.

The opposition is pretty easy to see actually. You have a developer that can’t deliver on Legendary weapons. You must see how pushing for mounts is less sensible.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Obtena and Nike you’re both kinda talking out your kitten. Obtena I’ve been over how you don’t seem to get it in an older thread. Guards aren’t in a sweet spot unless you consider stale, slightly mouldy bread sweet.

What we have is stagnant AND a sweet spot. That’s a shame because people like playing with new things but in no way is the changes I see here awful, nor are they anything that’s going to drastically change how the profession plays. As normal, people are being sensational to make the changes seem way more extreme and bad than they really are while downplaying the buffs. That’s very typical behaviour for people that don’t get what they want.

It doesn’t fool Anet into reversing their changes, it doesn’t fool me into thinking I’m on some sort of minority, losing side for being outside the mob mentality and it shouldn’t fool any other reasonable player that understands how this whole MMO thing actually works.

Nike.2631:

Quozex.9430:

I feel as a class we’ve just been neglected for the past 3 years.

Eh, its not so much neglect as its the ONLY profession in the game that consistently works right and turns in use/success numbers that hover around the midrange. They nerfed one over-performing skill hard and handed out a huge number of small buffs that make you more involved (more buttons off cooldown more often, more willingness to punch the big buttons early). That’s the profile of a class that’s mostly on track. Beyond that we’re on the exact same page about reviewing our forgotten underperformers.

Mikau.6920:

Guys, GIVE UP. There is no reason to even try any more.

Would you? Would you PLEASE? If you don’t have the wherewithal to operate a Guardian/Dragonhunter under these terms then yes, absolutely: GET OUT. GET OUT NOW. because nothing will do a better job of getting some other profession nerfed than a mass exodus to the flavor of the month ((looking at you, Herald)) and I’m sure all the people over in the class you migrate to will be so happy to have a pack of turn-coats stinking up their boards.

And maybe if a few of our more cheese-reliant brethren for whom having to use the whole tool bar is just too hard step out, then maybe the Dev’s will bump the Guardian up the que to look at our diversity (and the lack there of…) issues because there won’t be this cloud of no-talent trap-monkeys skewing our numbers.

Going to bump this, only because so much truth:

1. People can mock Anet all they want but this is yet another patch that confirms that Anet makes changes to keep Guardians in the sweet spot where they want them.
2. If the position of the profession you play in the meta is dissatisfying to you, exercise your options. We know what those are.

Despite the crying, chill damage did not EVER make or break Necro condi builds.

Tim.6450:

Obtena.7952:

Roxhemar.6039:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t why people are so offended by this change. The damage from Chill was NOT that good to begin with. That’s not to say what they changed it to was better though …

The whole rotation feels so less natural now, unless you main Necromancer you would not understand this in a PvE setting. Deathly Chill was nice because you could swing it with Dagger 4 swarm for a beautiful combo and get some damage out of doing so. Now? it’s like you apply a blind and a short duration of chill only to lose time you could have been damaging, it’s like when Blizzard removed Rend from warriors in World of Warcraft – it breaks the flow.

I play a Necro very often in PVE but I don’t understand your reasoning. You are going to get damage from Dagger 4 and Deathly chill through a long duration bleed instead of directly from the short duration chill (resulting in more damage over time that stacks with other bleeds as opposed to over time like chills). To me, that ability to get upfront stacks of bleeds is significant for PVE play because the main weakness of condi builds is the buildup you need to get the good damage from them.

Furthermore, Deathly Swarm got a reduced CD this patch, so you can apply it more often. There is literally no effect on the flow … other than the ‘problem’ of spamming Deathly Swarm MORE often.

Now, you might think 1 bleed is a little weak for a GM … but no ICD … if you apply 3 chills in the same instant, you get three bleeds and they do damage over a longer period. With the right build, you spam chills a ridiculous amount. I’m going to give it a go but just testing now, I was getting my 3 bleeds very easy on trash mobs. Can’t wait to see what I can do when I’m actually trying to apply chills.

first deathly swar did pre patch 2400 damage (unless you overstack chill which you shouldn’t) now it does 1800. So we lost 600 dps there. Also no cooldown reduction we instead got a cast time increase -> lower dps. Finally in this patch getting 4 bleeds every 16 seconds is kinda because it is only optimal to do this when your cast time multiplied to the amount of chills you place is lower then the cast time for the scepter auto and no of yourcondi skills are off cooldown. So yeah this patch is pve disaster.

Deathly Swarm: The missile velocity of this skill has been increased by 100%. The casting time of the projectile has increased by 0.2 seconds.

There is no mention of damage change so where are you getting your facts about the drop in damage?

Furthermore, claiming an increase of 0.2 cast time has a significant enough impact on damage to claim PVE disaster is laughable. Yes, i was wrong about reduced CD … There are too many changes floating around in my head ATM.

The fact is that this was changed because of damage conflicts between other chill applications; Anet should have known better in the first place because they had the same problem with burning before it was changed to stack. This is not a PVE disaster if you want your damage to matter for all situations.

It’s not that big an incentive when you can get more gold in a shorter time farming something.

Of course, I don’t really get the motivation, unless they are starting to think about making content locked behind achievement points or something like that.

I can’t wait to test this DPS tester to see if it has any relevance to how you actually play the game.

Elric Of Melnibone.4781:

Given the change to Deathly Chill:

“Deathly Chill: This trait no longer causes chill to inflict damage but instead applies 8 seconds of bleeding each time you apply chill to an enemy.”

I am first assuming that 8 seconds is subject to condition duration so could theoretically be extended to 16 seconds.

I also know that chill does not stack. The question is what counts as applying chill? If a target is already chilled and you cast another chill skill on it, is the duration increased (probably not) or more importantly is another 8 second stack of bleeding added?

I just tested it myself … I applied 3 chills at once … I got 3 bleeds at once. The bleeds extend in duration like the normal rules.

No, those skills you point out don’t need changes because the class is not dependent on those skills being any good. In fact, some of those skills are SOO crap that Anet could remove them and it would have no impact on the class whatsoever.

The real problem that there is less build diversity because of skills that aren’t up to par with others. That doesn’t mean they need buffing over other skills because diversity is not necessary for the class to be good. It’s simply nice to have more diversity. That’s why Anet can continue to choose to buff things that THEY want without big negative impacts on the class.

Roxhemar.6039:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t why people are so offended by this change. The damage from Chill was NOT that good to begin with. That’s not to say what they changed it to was better though …

The whole rotation feels so less natural now, unless you main Necromancer you would not understand this in a PvE setting. Deathly Chill was nice because you could swing it with Dagger 4 swarm for a beautiful combo and get some damage out of doing so. Now? it’s like you apply a blind and a short duration of chill only to lose time you could have been damaging, it’s like when Blizzard removed Rend from warriors in World of Warcraft – it breaks the flow.

I play a Necro very often in PVE but I don’t understand your reasoning. You are going to get damage from Dagger 4 and Deathly chill through a long duration bleed instead of directly from the short duration chill (resulting in more damage over time that stacks with other bleeds as opposed to over time like chills). To me, that ability to get upfront stacks of bleeds is significant for PVE play because the main weakness of condi builds is the buildup you need to get the good damage from them.

Furthermore, Deathly Swarm got a reduced CD this patch, so you can apply it more often. There is literally no effect on the flow … other than the ‘problem’ of spamming Deathly Swarm MORE often.

Now, you might think 1 bleed is a little weak for a GM … but no ICD … if you apply 3 chills in the same instant, you get three bleeds and they do damage over a longer period. With the right build, you spam chills a ridiculous amount. I’m going to give it a go but just testing now, I was getting my 3 bleeds very easy on trash mobs. Can’t wait to see what I can do when I’m actually trying to apply chills.

Finally, it’s worth noting that this shared the same problem as Guaridan burns before those were fixed … overwriting other people’s damage. Damage on chill was just a bad idea.

That settles it .. you just want to get your world explore to 100%, Thief is best. If you want to carry on to HoT from there … then i recommend Necro instead.

If you are interested in healing, there is only one real place to fill that role; Raids and for that, you would go with the Druid based on your post.

Mikau.6920:

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

Sorry im new to guardians myself but wasnt the main complaint that dragonhunter out specced everything else guardian had to offer? Doesnt this help the guardians build diversity?

Yes, and it’s still going to be. I don’t consider the nerf of 1 skill to be all that dramatic actually, but you can count on the typical sensational MMO player to make it into something huge.

The problem isn’t just that. The real problem is: Where are the needed buffs? I listed a lot of things that need buffs and none of them even got touched.

You can invent all the ‘needed’ buffs you want. There isn’t any such thing actually, because obviously, after observing this game and others, what is needed and what get’s changed are rarely in alignment.

The most relevant question is “What were the changes Anet wanted to make”.

I don’t why people are so offended by this change. The damage from Chill was NOT that good to begin with. That’s not to say what they changed it to was better though …

The only joke is that people expect a RS buff when there was no reasonable expectation for it in the first place.

Ryou.2398:

Sorry im new to guardians myself but wasnt the main complaint that dragonhunter out specced everything else guardian had to offer? Doesnt this help the guardians build diversity?

Yes, and it’s still going to be. I don’t consider the nerf of 1 skill to be all that dramatic actually, but you can count on the typical sensational MMO player to make it into something huge.

Dojo.1867:

Honestly people are overrating the importance of the “gap closing” element of the leap. Often this could actually make you jump in a wrong direction. If enemies want to create distance they just use their own teleports/leaps/stealths anyway.

The skill already cripples. I am really curious what the new version does. Before we know the exact details threads like this one are pointless. I get that a small minority liked the old chain and you kept this change from happening years earlier. This is your win. Now accept Arenanets decision to finally change it.

There is some truth here. The leap that occurs on the 3rd stage of a chain on a melee weapon has highly questionable utility and takes control away from the player.

I hope the leap is removed, or better yet rethought as a teleport with limited range? That seems to be a much more reasonable realization of the skill IMO.

We get it, there are things about GW2 you don’t like, think are stupid, etc… That’s not actually unique. There are things I don’t like and think are stupid, and the next guy and probably almost every player. Maybe being a university lecturer would be an appropriate profession since the discussion in this thread is purely academic.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Obtena.7952:

I understand your points … and they aren’t actually relevant to anything BUT an explanation of what you don’t like about the game. In otherwords, there are things about the game you don’t like and … so what? Are you looking for converts to agree with you? Want Anet to completely change the game to make it GW1 part 2?

Frankly, I don’t see how anyone can actually complain about some of the things you do unless they don’t understand the business model the game has … which isn’t an attempt to be GW1 part 2.

What makes you say that my points aren’t relevant to anything except an explanation of why I don’t like the game? I’m making my points to state my opinion.

Because you’re not stating them for any reason but to let them be known … I don’t see suggestions to fix or anything. Just a list of things you don’t like. I don’t see a purpose. I’m not really sure what you want to discuss, unless your intention was to give people the opportunity to convince you otherwise, which I doubt.

Sorry I don’t buy it. If someone says it MIGHT be conceived as something and they were against it in the first place, they are thinking it as well. There is an agenda there; they want something.

I understand your points … and they aren’t actually relevant to anything BUT an explanation of what you don’t like about the game. In otherwords, there are things about the game you don’t like and … so what? Are you looking for converts to agree with you? Want Anet to completely change the game to make it GW1 part 2?

Frankly, I don’t see how anyone can actually complain about some of the things you do unless they don’t understand the business model the game has … which isn’t an attempt to be GW1 part 2.

reikken.4961:

Obtena.7952:

You’re talking about chaining dodges but you don’t dodge killing trash mobs in OW PVE.

Ok bro, I’ll keep it short and to the point.

• Chaining dodges is for getting from place to place, not killing.* Vault is for killing.
• If you don’t want to put in any effort and don’t mind being slower, 1 dodge every ~25 seconds = same run speed as taking the signet.
• If you don’t mind spamming skills and want to get there literally 2 or 3 times as fast, you can spam mobility skills to do so.

---

.* You do sometimes dodge in combat even in easymode land. If you do, it’s for one of 3 things, from most common to least:
1. closing the gap to your target without using initiative, since your dodge is also a dash.
2. removing cripple/immob/chill.
3. dodging a knockdown

yes, so it’s simply a question of effectiveness vs. efficiency. From my perspective, I can get the same effectiveness more efficiently with a thief. You’re not really going to convince me that dodging all over the place on Daredevil to get the same level of effectiveness without dodging on thief makes Daredevil better than a thief.

Again, the build I presented does 2 of 3 things you state you need dodge for … without dodging. The first point is nice; Not using initiative is a nice thing … except you still need dust strike and a dodge/dash to open the fight for 4 initiative to match what I can do with Shadow Strike for the same cost. That’s important … you don’t want to be burdened with lingering effects after you’ve killed a trash mob.

It’s simply an added layer of mechanics you can avoid as a base thief while maintaining the same level of effectiveness. The only place I can see Daredevil being more value is when you are overwhelmed by trash mobs or in the most special case, groups of Ettins, since they can chain stun you.

I actually think the OP could have been more specific as well but I don’t think it’s so vague we can’t anticipate what he’s looking for:

1. Solo PVE
2. World Exploration (that’s probably map completion)
3. The Necro and Ranger he talks about also hints at what he’s after

Aggrostemma.1703:

Guardian is the slowest prof now (and ever been) without any good reason… I don’t think even the devs know why anymore.

There is a good reason and it’s actually documented in a Ready Up episode (13?) from before; it’s related to having known, managed deficiencies on the class.

And no, I don’t think they have forgotten it because they are the ones that come up with the concept of the class.

What’s more likely is that players never knew about it or have forgotten it (on purpose) because they want RS buffs.

OH this is rich: People were upset that Anet was advertising a feature they didn’t fully deliver one so when they fix that advertising, people accuse them of sweeping it under the rug.

This is really part of the reason Anet shouldn’t take the calls in this thread of compensation, reimbursement and appeasement all that seriously; it wouldn’t change the fact that people act in this manner.

reikken.4961:

You don’t swap to shortbow unless you need to cover a lot of distance or are already out of combat. If the next place you want to be is less than 10 seconds away, you just dash dash vault/shadowstep/steal, and maybe swap and shoot an arrow or two if you leave combat before you arrive.

Obtena.7952:

You’re posted build will not compete with the one I posted in Core OW content. Sustain, defense are not necessary and it actually lacks mobility without a constant runspeed buff. How it performs in HoT, I can’t say, but probably much better, though still very slow to move around without a speed buff.

I guess you haven’t played daredevil
…and didn’t look at the traits

Take a look at the third trait in the daredevil line, Unhindered Combatant. Here’s what it does:
grants 10 seconds of swiftness on dodge
travels 50% farther than a normal dodge, over the same time frame
removes immob/chill/cripple on dodge
(and grants 10% damage reduction for 4 seconds, but that’s not releveant for easy stuff)

While chaining dodges, not only am I stacking more swiftness than I could ever possibly need, but also I am moving 50% faster than someone running with swiftness. And this is just as fast in combat as out, so it amps up to more than twice as fast as someone with swiftness while in combat.

The build has just short of the absolute most mobility you can get in the game. And for getting from place to place, you are never not teleporting or dashing, so you ignore the in combat speed reduction too, in case you get hit by something.

Spawn on map. Decide where I want to be, and then dash shortbow shadowstep shortbow dash dash signet dash dash heal dash shortbow dash. That’s about 3700 distance in 3 seconds, and 8000 in 10 seconds. For comparison, running with permaswiftness is 400 per second. ie 1200 in 3 seconds and 4000 in 10. (266 per second in combat)

You aren’t seeing past the difference between good skills and useful ones for the requested role. You’re talking about chaining dodges but you don’t dodge killing trash mobs in OW PVE; so basically, I need to dodge a whole bunch when I don’t need to for trigger good effects … or I could just stick with thief and get similar effects without the added burden. I agree that those traits are good, they just aren’t useful in OW PVE when 99% of the encounters you have are with trash mobs that you should be killing in 2-3 seconds, not dodging from.

Same with mobility; is the dashing around and shadowstepping really fast? Yup. But that’s not something that makes Daredevil a better class than thief … I can use SB as a thief as well, I just don’t recommend it because it’s just a tradeoff between effectiveness and efficiency.

My two biggest issue with Daredevil is 1) the traits in the line are too active and conditional to access as similar traits in base thief lines and 2) they trigger on not-friendly actions for OW content.

Bottomline:

Core GW2: Thief
HoT: Necro
Both: Necro

reikken.4961:

Obtena.7952:

Furthermore, Infiltrators arrow does not give you speed, it just mimics Dagger #3, with a higher cost AND requires you to swap weapons to get it

oh please, you don’t use shortbow to attack things (usually). It’s for getting to where you need to go.

You won’t have a choice … you can’t swap fast enough between trash kills where you won’t be attacking with SB. Even if you can, that’s simply way more cumbersome.

reikken.4961:

also most of the mobs that you can’t facetank are also immune to blind. especially in HoT, where nearly everything has a break bar.

Fair enough, but I DID differentiate HoT as a separate level of play and a different class recommendation altogether. Perhaps that wasn’t something you saw. I would have to say that if considering BOTH for Core and HoT, I’m not sure where Daredevil would rank with the rest of the classes, but I don’t think it’s realistic to evaluate a class over those two very different content to begin with. I do know Daredevil is not as good as Thief in Core but there are classes very good in both HoT and Core and therefore would rank higher.

reikken.4961:

Really, you’re just going to have to post an actual build

This is my preferred build for open world:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAWVn8lClOhNOBGOBkmiFqiau67+yvLCCgDYLHHsqD-TxCBQBA4CAkHNBB4BAoPdAYRpnAV/pI7PcGlgS4QAoRlBQ4IAAA-e
maximizes mobility, with lots of sustain and defense, and high damage

You’re posted build will not compete with the one I posted in Core OW content. Sustain, defense are not necessary and it actually lacks mobility without a constant runspeed buff. How it performs in HoT, I can’t say, but probably much better, though still very slow to move around without a speed buff.

I’m not talking about druid, that’s an entirely different class as far as I’m concerned for OW content.

Being immune to conditions is not the only requirement that makes a profession optimal for OW content. I’m aware of SoR and I believe the reason I haven’t added it to the OW farming build is simply because a 10 second passive condition removal in OW is pretty useless; its too random when the condition is removed. An active cleanse on a longer CD is better in OW, and preventing the condition in the first place is even better than that.

I’m not questioning if Ranger is high ranking or not, but it’s not better than Thief. Thief has more damage, a better opening move and active cleanses. To be clear though, I was focused on Core when I said Ranger doesn’t make the top of my list. To be fair, I would agree that as you state, Ranger is a hihg-ranking profession in HoT for the reasons you stated. I consider hoT a completely different level of play and in my first post, did recommend the MM Necro as the best way to solo through it.

Ranger doesn’t make the top of my list: it doesn’t have easy access to cleanse and the damage from LB isn’t that spectacular. It does perform well in HoT due to pet tanking and strong ranged performance though.

There are differences in classes and they do make a difference in world exploration. Those differences are not just trivial. Just because OW is easy, doesn’t mean you can’t make optimized builds for it.

Openworld PVE is the last place you need to dodge, especially if you have on demand blinds with the build I presented. So to me, the dodge mechanics are wasted on a profession like Daredevil. Furthermore, Infiltrators arrow does not give you speed, it just mimics Dagger #3, with a higher cost AND requires you to swap weapons to get it; this lowers your damage and can put you in a situation where you are stuck with a weapon that is not optimal for damage on trash mobs. That’s not OW friendly at all.

Furthermore, thief is one of the most effortless professions you can use in openworld. You’re killing trash … it’s #3 then #1. If you got a group of mobs, then it’s #5 then #1. That’s as tricky as you get and the damage is frankly, OPed.

Really, you’re just going to have to post an actual build so I can see how what I’ve optimized for OW PVE on thief compares to whatever build you’re comparing it too. Just randomly comparing skills is a little pointless.

Why? do you think Anet cares how many thieves are running around? Pretty sure they don’t have a quota they have to fill or anything.

True, you can play any class … but that’s not the point of the thread. Obvious OP wants to know what is best from his list. Thief is better for many more reasons than stealth at communes. That’s actually a weak reason; thief wrecks anything in the way of commune HPs. Stealth is a last resort.

Thief excels for four reasons:

1. Fast: Runspeed signet
2. Damage: LOTS of damage multipliers in traits
3. Good opener: nothing in this game beats Dagger #3 in D/P to open the fight
4. Good closing: Cleanses and some interrupts on steal and skills to clear remnants of fight or prevent lasting conditions.

These are the factors that make a profession good for OW exploring and map completion. Thief has them all.

I see little that makes Daredevil excel over base thief but I do know there is a much longer road to make a daredevil for the task that the OP asks than a thief.

Of the three you list, I would rank Rogue (you mean thief I believe), then ranger, then Rev.

In fact, of the classes available so far, I believe thief is #1 for doing open world roaming and map completions in the core game.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAoa6YlsMhenYjTwzJw+EHwE1OQ/gB1nGxRboTgAIDA-ThRBABA8EAwT/Alq/ExJBUCe1+jyPEMBBA-e

HoT is a different story though: solo, I would recommend Necro Minion and conditions build

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRArY4djM0QTN2VDu1A7NOCGq5MsDrbMBCgIQeCpQJA-ThTAABVr+T0nAQ/QP7PMjGEoNDghSwX0QQxREgJlGKcwAew0gYKxA4BActyAA-e

ShaNA.9018:

The problem is not that he left,why he left….

People leave all the time to all kinds of different reasons. It’s not really a problem.

Curunen.8729:

I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.

What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.

This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.

“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "

You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.

Indure.5410:

Obtena.7952:

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

So, rangers, thieves and elementalists have signets for increase runspeed, warriors have trait to increase speed with melee weapons, does guardians have anything?

Sorry for my english.

You do, but they aren’t class specific like signets or traits. You might wonder why they don’t. It’s because it’s a deficiency for the class that Anet admitted that is intended. That also answers your next question:

Will Guardians ever get a speed buff? It’s not likely unless the dev thinking changes quite a bit.

They said explicitly that Guardians shouldn’t have a decent range weapon for years … now we have one of the stronger range weapons in the game. I’m of course talking about the Scepter with its new an improved Zealous Scepter trait. It’s pretty OP.

No, actually ‘they’ didn’t because we had 2 to begin with. If this is indeed true, then ‘they’ spoke out of context or just out their rear end. The ready up where runspeed denial was explained was a planned, scripted statement. No question of the validity of what they were saying, no contradictions.

I don’t see why the answers are actually important … other than to prove you’re wrong over an academic argument. You’re lack of understanding that something has a technical limitation should not lead you to the conclusion that you are correct that it does not have that limitation … nor abuse people on the forum when they knock you down a level for being arrogant.

If this approach didn’t work in the Guardian forum, why does the OP think it’s going to work here?

So basically … dungeons were never good for casual players … Before they were abused by meta-pushers and kicked from teams, now they just can’t get teams. Either way, sounds like the significant kind in the butt was for people farming dungeons specifically for gold.

I don’t feel Anet was never going to have a ‘win’ with dungeon content in this game. I still don’t think they can. Any instanced content with limited player numbers will not favour the kinds of players this game appealed to when it was released.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I’ll stick with the facts over the red posts, thanks though.

Yeah makes sense … players interpreting facts over red post folks telling you why.

The pros and shout casters think Mesmer is arguably the strongest class in the game? Must be nice for them to wallow in their own ignorance while living in that bubble. Good think we have such a small percentage of people with such an irrelevant opinion for the majority of the remaining non-pros and non-shoutcasters. I would be worried if more regular types were thinking this, it might actually be believable.

I didn’t say it wasn’t content. There is no justification to introduce trinity at this point for the game in general, so whatever argument you have related to Legendary armor being content, a gate or gates to a content or contents to a gate, doesn’t matter.

Frankly, I don’t see how you have decided that trinity is going to fix the things you’re talking about in your post either. DH is better than ranger? OK, adding universal trinity roles in the game doesn’t change that. Balance changes do though.

^^ I wasn’t going to suggest such a thing but now it’s in the open, yes, making dungeons undesirable as gold faucets does indeed silence the players that insisted people play a certain way. It’s a controversial topic and it’s hard to ID the cause and effect but, dungeon nerfs, aggressive meta-pushing players and easy gold all made for a bad game experience in dungeons.

DGraves.3720:

Shylock.4653:

DGraves.3720:

This is not true anymore. If you take all your friends in Nomad’s armor you cannot raid and do you know why? Timers.

If you take all your friends in Exotics to Level 100 Fractal you cannot win and do you know why? Agony.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

This is actually player-side. There are two things that make something “player-side”:

1. The player must know the rules of the game and they must be open, obvious, and easy to understand.

2. The player must be provided all necessarily elements for success in the game.

Fractals meets these requirements. You receive ascended items as well as a way to purchase ascended items as you play the mode. You receive agony infusions. The choice to disregard the rules is not developer-side so if you chose to do Fractal 20 in Exotics and died to agony that’s as much your fault as fractal 100. You could also do fractal 100 with only one ascended item provided you wanted to craft the infusion, so there’s no direct interference so long as you meet the minimum requirements. Furthermore Nomad’s can be ascended armor therefore player choice is not infringed upon if choosing the nomenclature which is not the same as developer-side behavior.

Now if you had to have a Legendary weapon, which obviously doesn’t just get pooped out of Fractals, to survive this would be accurately developer-side.

If you want to take your Exotics party to raids, go ahead

This is where it becomes different. Ironically you brought up one of the oldest dev-side elements in gaming, gear tier. When we as players choose our nomenclature we decide where the points go but we never decide how many points we get. To be clear if put on an exotic tri-stat glove I will get 45 in my major stat, if I put on an ascended tri-stat I will get 47. Whether it’s Vitality or Power the result is exactly the same. To further expand on this you also don’t have an option as to what stats are where; there are no Ferocity major items even though Ferocity major is the literal best damage you can get. Why is that? Because it’s dev-side; you are given an array of options to choose from but cannot actually design your own.

So gear tier is not actually player-side at all. You could technically do Raids in whites if you wanted to, so long as you beat the timer, which is also not player-side because it isn’t player-set, player-adjusted, and there obviously is nothing that allows for manipulation by the player.

Going into a Raid in Nomad’s and dying to a timer going off is not equivalent to going into Fractals and refusing to wear Agony Resistance.

(It does in certain modes; do not play them).

Content Gate. You don’t do Raids? No Legendary Armor.

This thread actually wasn’t about Raids. Weird. It was genuinely about the fact that Elementalists are amazing, Warriors heal better than Healing Power Engineers, and Rangers are “meh” with traps compared to their Dragon Hunter overlords.

Hold on … that’s not a content ‘gate’ because you don’t need Legendary armor to unlock or progress anywhere, nor do you need more trinity professions to complete raids to unlock whatever gate you perceive exists. That implied argument holds no water.