Guild Wars 2

^^ This is what traps are, though it’s arguable that they even do that effectively. For the most part they are of little consequence in PVE or anyone that knows what they are doing in PVP.

Dante.1508:

Chaotic.9742:

Learning and overcoming something is part of a fun game experience,

No it is not.

That said my hands shake very badly and i have arthritis, my hand eye coordination will never get better, i’m personally ok with never getting a legendary, they are ugly as sin to me, but forcing such content to pass it is extremely unfair on those in my condition that ever did want them.

What ever happened to the original fun experience GW2 released as..

Oh how far we gamers have fallen. Did I actually read someone disagreeing that gaming is about learning and overcoming things? That’s a sad commentary on the state of gaming if that’s a common view.

cosmicegg.8502:

Obtena.7952:

You shouldn’t be so quick to judge … no where did I say that Anet makes the best decisions or that they haven’t reversed things in the past. frankly, I don’t see them doing that here, not without a major simplification of how Legendaries are developed, which in itself is just another cost to them on top of the other reasons they have to stop development of Legendaries in the first place.

Yet another problem with people that complain … very narrow focus on only the things they think matter. Most of you have little consideration for the business side of this decision when in fact, it’s almost the only thing that matters.

If your happy with getting half of what you paid for, and if you have the expansion, then fine. But I cant comprehend for the life of me why its your job to say me not being happy is any less valid then what you feel. I was cheated plain and simple and there isn’t any remedy offered that doesn’t do further damage. Aside from that I couldn’t care less how you feel about focus.

That would be a GREAT rant if I actually did what you are accusing me of. I mean, I get you feel cheated. It’s too bad you can’t get past that. You’re right damage is done, but you don’t seem to want to let it go, you just want to make it worse. it’s sad really. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen a dev will change gears, whether you paid for access to specific content or not. The reasons they did it appear beyond most of you.

You think your angry because you didn’t get something but really, you’re angry because you don’t get why they made this decision. I don’t blame you. A more objective stance would help you out with that.

I’m so glad all these people have real numbers backing up their claims of it being dead.

Who ever it was, it was someone who didn’t understand that the fundamental concept is not something that really works in this game; random defensive team buffs, protective skills, static location attacks, etc ..

How was there no warning? … you can see from the list of achievements what you need to do. Did you not research before embarking on such a significant task?

Guhracie.3419:

Obtena.7952:

That’s not something they didn’t think about when they made this decision. They made it anyways. It’s almost like the people complaining here don’t understand that Anet already walked through those scenarios. Amazing.

And anet’s decision-making has been so flawless in the past. It really is amazing.

I love the irony of your quote in your signature. Seems you have missed his point completely.

You shouldn’t be so quick to judge … no where did I say that Anet makes the best decisions or that they haven’t reversed things in the past. frankly, I don’t see them doing that here, not without a major simplification of how Legendaries are developed, which in itself is just another cost to them on top of the other reasons they have to stop development of Legendaries in the first place.

Yet another problem with people that complain … very narrow focus on only the things they think matter. Most of you have little consideration for the business side of this decision when in fact, it’s almost the only thing that matters.

That’s not something they didn’t think about when they made this decision. They made it anyways. It’s almost like the people complaining here don’t understand that Anet already walked through those scenarios. Amazing.

billk.3980:

Ashen.2907:

billk.3980:

Aytheist.9476:

Solo players cannot advance in the new content, and any decent publisher would disclose such a fundamental change prior to taking your money.

I agree. No doubt this post will be followed by the obligatory ’you’re just inept along with the ‘i solo’d it easily’ posts but you are correct.The day i started the new content it was like running into a brick wall and i am looking for new games to play.

You may agree but the claim is objectively false. Someone agreeing that the earth is flat doesn’t make it so.

You can say that as many times as you want but it won’t change the fact that in every game i’ve played up till now, when an expansion was released ,the new area was flooded with players and remained that way but in this game the maps i’ve been in are very scarcely populated and when i go back to the non-expansion area it is heavily populated with gliding level 80 players doing quests.
Obviously there are issues.

That’s a bad conclusion to think there are issues. In many other games, old zones become very irrelevant when new expansions are released, so there IS no where for players to go other than the new zones, unless they like to RPG and rack up /timeplayed. GW2 is not designed that way and that’s what you are observing; even with HoT, there is still lots of relevant, end game activity happening all over the place. If you are in a low-populated map, you are in overflow from one of the many maps bursting with players.

Without being more specific, I can’t agree or disagree with that. I think there are elements that should not be soloable in a Map; we have that in GW2.

I definitely think that the parts that should be soloable in GW2 are; very little prevents a player from progressing right to DS and choosing whatever map they want to be in; most HP’s are achievable solo so elite specs are not out of grasp and needed masteries are also very reasonable to complete.

Again, whether the standard of soloing maps in MMO’s has changed since ‘way back in the day’ or not is irrelevant because there are options to clearing any content in this game, using the various strategies available to players. It’s the player’s fault of they decide to restrict their options if they can’t complete content.

I don’t think it’s a question of why you want to solo a map. I think it’s a question of why anyone should expect to be able to … in an MMO. Some people can solo, some can’t. I don’t see why that’s a problem. If are looking for that MMO feel, solo game, you got lots of choice for games, even within GW2 itself. It’s not that most of HoT isn’t able to be soloed, it’s that some people can’t do it and those people need to accept that’s not the limitation of the game or it’s design, it’s THEM.

If you can’t solo HoT, you have options, lots of them, including not playing the game as an extreme solution to your not-able-to-solo-in-an-MMO problem.

Silhouette.5631:

Also I never touch my F1 as a condi guard. Ironic right?

Depends completely on what your condi build is. I don’t see that as ironic, I see that as making a choice.

PW is broken because it doesn’t benefit choice.

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Banchou.5628:

Rinn.2375:

Vayne.8563:

Anyone who said this hasn’t changed too much, simply isn’t paying attention.

It’s true. I am a casual player. Casual of the casuals as a matter of fact. I lost interest quickly in HoT because I died so many times. Now, I can manage in HoT with my guardian and easily finished Verdant Brinks map. Achievements and all. Even unlocking the masteries is a lot easier now (from 22 to 33 within a day with casual, not HC play), so I don’t know what is the problem with the difficulty level of the HoT content.
I think it’s good now. A bit harder than the “Prophecies” and a lot easier than the old HoT

In terms of dificult barely changed, the damage is pretty much the same aside the mushrooms, the hostile npcs continues with the same attack patterns.

The whole diference is that now you can unlock faster the HoT masteries and is worth stay playing on HoT maps reward wise…

Aside having new unlocked masteries that really make travel around the jungle easier, you simple adapted to the HoT gameplay style lol

This isn’t actually true. Many of the random champ events around the map have turned into veteran events, like the champ troll that used to spawn in VB. There are changes to adventures which give you more time/make them easier. There are changes to the way certain events scale. In addition, there are some areas along the main pathways where the amount of mobs have been reduced.

I have an older woman in my guild, who couldn’t get through the zones before and now she can. She told me it was much easier for her to survive. She used to be frustrated and now she’s not.

It IS easier.

No they really haven’t, i’ve had to stand around asking in chat for help on champions as much now as i ever did before the patch..

Very little changed on difficulty in hot, what looks great in patch notes doesn’t equate to the actual game play value..

The other thing is the huge imbalance between classes that while some classes can face roll HoT the others cannot.. All classes should be able to face roll hot, the whole map not just some.

I can play HoT on all 9 professions. Some ARE harder than others. That’s how MMOs should be. The should provide options for people who want to play faceroll and people who want an actual skill ceiling. That’s part of good MMO design.

no, that is horrible design
the options should be in the variety of the content , not in unbalanced classes

That’s not horrible design … that’s standard design. That’s how it works for every MMO I’ve ever played.

It’s balanced by exactly the two points you posted but it does need a fix, just not for the things you think is wrong.

The main issue is that it does nothing for active VoJ. That’s a travesty as a GM trait. Even the mid level trait does something for passive and active VoJ.

Always a hoot when people complain about options on things. If you don’t think the 1 slot is worth it, don’t buy it.

I feel the opposite. The weapon choices for DPS aren’t limited at all. You can make good DPS builds with GS, hammer and mace for solo PVE. You can even decide direct damage vs. conditions with GS and Mace as well. Maybe even sword, though I haven’t looked at that for a while.

In otherwords … how well your class performs has less impact as the size of the group you are roaming with increases in WvW.

Therefore, the only people in WvW that are most significantly by individual class changes are the weirdos that run around by themselves.

I’m not sure if you aware of the history but for Anet, that one little change is a pretty big deal to make, so if it’s going to happen, it better be a good one. I’m all for improvements but when you literally get a few weapon skill changes in a year, mace wouldn’t be where I think it should be, especially to chase a meta you can’t catch.

Chasing meta shifts is a questionable reason to revisit skills.

That’s a noble intention but the mace has concept and when it gets modified to try to fill other concepts at the expense of it’s current one; it becomes good for neither.

I believe the only improvements that make sense to me for Mace are those that are already similar to what it does, not ones that try to make it good for what it doesn’t do. Trying to make Mace more appealing for PVP isn’t going to result in people using it more for PVP; It just doesn’t deliver enough to that game mode in the first place.

I don’t care what they sell in the GS … as long as I don’t have to pay a monthly sub.

It’s not mere coincidence, it just escapes you that perhaps your theory isn’t worth addressing.

Guhracie.3419:

58 pages, and the last response was on page 9. I suppose this really is just a thread for people to vent and then forget.

It’s simply an FYI from Anet. The vent and forget is what players do when they get information.

That’s true, that’s the AoE heal. I don’t regard that an an inconsistency in the weapon though as it fits the class concept.

I will be honest, I don’t think slow and clunky are compelling reason to change weapons. While it does heal, I don’t think it’s intended as a healing weapon since we don’t have trinity. Adjusting the heal would be a wasted exercise IMO and wouldn’t make up for the slow, clunky feeling.

Frankly, I don’t think there is much to change on Mace.

Mace #1 is a little slow because it hits multiple targets; Mace IS a AoE weapon. Like any AoE weapon, it will be lackluster against single targets.

Mace #2 is the symbol bomber; even though it’s longer CD than Hammer symbol, it’s not locked up on the third level of a chained attack.

Mace #3 is better than people give it credit for though it has some situational awareness requirements to make it useful.

Seems to me that all these things target the very concept of what it means to be a Guardian; team support, defensive buffing, Melee AoE effects.

I don’t feel the problems with Guardian are related to any specific weapon or skills though there are improvements, the concept itself doesn’t really fit with the way the game promotes high damage and teamplay, unless maybe at the highest fractal levels.

If there was one improvement I would like to see with Mace, it would be to change protectors strike so it’s not taking you out of the action for almost 4 seconds. Maybe add a 2nd stage, allowing player to discharge it for a lesser benefit.

Dante.1508:

The game needs to appeal to the Casual players or it dies a slow painful death.

Don’t associate ‘casual’ with ‘unskilled’; doing so indicates there is some kind of practice involved that a casual player simply can’t invest the time to do to be successful. That is NOT the case. I’m certain as casual as the next guy, but had none of the issues you speak of.

I’m not sure how someone can perform so poorly as you indicate you do. I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that you aren’t being sensational, though your post indicates it. I’m sure it’s been covered but games have elements meant to be solved, if you can’t ‘solve’ HoT, it’s not the game for you.

Yellow mobs are leather nodes.

Ryou.2398:

Aeolus.3615:

Ryou.2398:

Aeolus.3615:

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

Aeolus.3615:

Anet in response for all guardians offered a free lvl 80 tome….lol.

Theres your guardian fix, as Anet hates that class so they try to ignore.

People joke about this alot but you know, that’s EXACTLY why we have access to multiple characters, leveling items, etc… Anet wants you to play the game. If that means making it easier for you to choose a profession you like, then it makes sense for them to allow it. Why? Because they KNOW they can’t deliver a class concept with the performance that all players want in that class. It’s not just Anet either … As far back as I can remember, most games allowed you to have multiple characters when there are classes involved; it’s an industry-wide approach.

I just want to understand how people want to play guardians? Im still leveling mind but I really like how unique and fast paced they feel compared to a typical tank class with heals and buffs.

Guardians are boon bots, if u stack other classes they have better performance.
Spirit weapons dont exist.
Mace shield builds dont work due low performance, and awfull traits.
Guardian stat envestiment it is another broken world (proved by the awfull quality of Anet at balance, as if they dont want the class to perform well).
Only viable option to fight is using traps, theres way to many bad players so they still work.

I hear different, if that was even true I doubt there would be dps specced guardians like using the fire stuff and etc.

I only play WvW in this game, who cares about this kitten pve?

@Zantmar.5406, heralds, tempests, and all future gimmick elite specs of other classes that relly on boons.

Funny how no one specifies the game modes.

The funny part is when people don’t care about game modes that are just as relevant to the balance of the class as the one they care about. No wait, that’s the sad part. Pardon me.

Ironically, I think WvW is the least influential game mode for class balance, unless someone is one of those solo roaming weirdos.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Obtena.7952:

There isn’t anything more or less right about "haven’t done anything for years” and “straight nerf with no compensation”.

I GET it … people don’t like the changes, maybe never like them, see things they want fixed that Anet has never even looked at but those kinds of statements are flat out lies. They have no place in a reasonable discussion and I can assure you, no dev takes them seriously. In fact, those are the kinds of things that would make me simply continue doing what I felt was the right thing to do as a dev. Think about it.

I mean, if you truly believe that, then we actually have a happy equilibrium; players don’t think Anet can do anything right, so Anet might as well do what they want because no matter what they do, players don’t like it. See how that works?

Its not so much that they didn’t give compensation.
They tried to they really did, but the compensation is negligible at best.

And while its not exactly true that they haven’t added anything in years, there is tons of stuff they have just neglected that was meh at launch and aged very very badly.

That’s perhaps true and more reasonable, which brings me back to everything I observe leading me to think that devs don’t balance classes according to a performance target relative to other classes.

… or if they do, they aren’t very good at it, should probably stop trying and concentrate on delivering top of the line skills that fit the class concept.

There isn’t anything more or less right about "haven’t done anything for years” and “straight nerf with no compensation”.

I GET it … people don’t like the changes, maybe never like them, see things they want fixed that Anet has never even looked at but those kinds of statements are flat out lies. They have no place in a reasonable discussion and I can assure you, no dev takes them seriously. In fact, those are the kinds of things that would make me simply continue doing what I felt was the right thing to do as a dev. Think about it.

I mean, if you truly believe that, then we actually have a happy equilibrium; players don’t think Anet can do anything right, so Anet might as well do what they want because no matter what they do, players don’t like it. See how that works?

Manimarco Devil.1790:

They haven’t done anything for many years and anyone who has been here for a while knows they probably will not so any outrage is justified by the fact it is going to be a straight nerf with no compensation.

I can see where some people are coming from, but when people post things that aren’t true, then it makes it simple to respond. I skipped right to the end of your post to see if you had a summary. It’s a good thing I did because I figured your post was unreasonable … and I was right. I don’t see truth there. There isn’t anything to really discuss with you if you’re just going to make up things.

Just because you dislike how the class has evolved doesn’t mean you need to invent “haven’t done anything for years” and “straight nerf with no compensation”. Good day.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Sartharina.3542:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Crossaber.8934:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Crossaber.8934:

Agemnon.4608:

Their claws and weapons didn’t magically become less lethal.

They do if you become sufficiently durable. In Dragon Ball for example Goku becomes stronger by the season. If Super Saiyan Blue Goku went back to the first episode Raditz would be so far outclassed that he’d endanger himself by hitting him.

Levels in RPGs are the equivalent of DBZ power levels. Sure you don’t gain enough stats to become a moon buster but a base toughness of 5 may correlate to an average person whereas a base toughness of 20 means you’re bulletproof to regular bullets, but still as fragile as a wet paper bag compared to endgame level dragons.

But how to justify levels from a lore standpoint in Guild Wars 2? Maybe we can justify it as we’re back in time and each level represents a different place in our timeline whereas level 80 represents us in the present at our strongest. The polar bears of low level zones are no longer dangerous to our present selves, but they’re dangerous to our past level 10 selves and whenever we visit that map we’re effectively going back in time canonically.

It is the reason i stop reading dragonball combat right after the first super saiyan mode is out. The story us getting stupid, the number of the energy level is overdone. I love the 7 dragonball series where fighting tactics is important, instead of unlimited powerceep in the story.

The level scaling is perfectly fine, reason?

A traditional mmo a maxed lv player is limited to have meaningful combat in endgame zone only, while GW2 a maxed lv player, the whole game any map can have meaning combat. GW2 have some flaws, but this is a feature that make GW2 GREAT.

I can see your point, if you are someone who has big needs, but as a level 80 character you should be focusing on playing ‘meaningful’ content in zones for your area, not low-level zones. Why would anyone want to do that? The map is huge. How much more space do you need?

The arguments players have presented in this thread (most in repetition) just do not justify leaving out the traditional leveling/combat system which true players enjoy.

It’s all about… “I prefer this….”, “…but it’s better this way because..”… NO it isn’t!

Making every zone into a complete access-for-all monopoly is WRONG WRONG WRONG imo.

It also sets a very bad example for the up and coming novice gamer about how to tackle no-win situations in a gaming community.

What % is your map completion when reaching lv80?

None of my character reached 45% when they hit lv80. Are you telling me all my lv80 should only stationed in Orr, dungeon, fractial or raid upon hitting lv80? Maybe you are fine with the the higher lv the less contents to play with kind of style.

Well i am not, i enjoy revisiting some low level map, or some place i never visited. I enjoy party with low level travel around the world helping them on their jounery without killing their joys. I understand that i will be extremely boring if some high level one shot everything cross my path when i am leveling.

The scaling system provide lv80 the replayability to every single corner in Tyria, this is what matters to many of us. We all see that the Traditional MMO style is a classic yet outdated mechanics which seems to make the early maps into desert.

Classic, yes. Outdated, no

You can’t re-design a classic game mechanic in the hope to achieve a better game, when in reality the original design is what drew players in. What you’re asking for is a safety-net for your level 80.

… sorry, but the classic leveling design that Anet rejected is NOT what ’Drew players in". What drew players into the genre in the first place was the ability to play a single game with countless other new and experienced players in a persistent world to explore through. And WTF are you rambling on about a “safety net” for? The only person in this thread asking for a ’safety net for their level 80" is the guy who thinks his level 80 should be invincible.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

EragamerLG.2390:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I have the best armour and stats at the moment, and i’m happy with everything. But I just sat back in horror as I watched a level 15 icebrood elemental in a low-level region remove half my health in a few seconds.

If they ever decide to make a gw3 I hope they get rid of that stupid scaling system, because it really makes the game look like child’s play.

Even if my health suddenly drops from 20k to 1.5k, I would expect a low level enemy to struggle against a level 80. My suspicion is that levels are actually meaningless in this game.

I’ve posted on this topic before, and I’m posting again because this is something that is still bugging me.

ADDENDUM: some of these mobs are actually killing me quicker than level 80 mobs.

You miss the whole point of GW2. Off you go now, generic MMO is that way.
Nothing to see here folks.

Gw2 misses the point I am trying to put forward.

That’s not a point, though. It’s not even a double-eraser. It’s… hell, there are spheres that put out better points than you.

Hey, I want a real leveling experience. Note the keyword here, “real”. That doesn’t include a ‘manipulated’ one, or one that is serving a purpose. A safety-net is for high level players who want the reward of enjoying themselves at will in low-level regions.

GW2 delivers that as well … if you’re so inclined, you can attempt to level up in whatever zone of your choice.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Crossaber.8934:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Crossaber.8934:

Agemnon.4608:

Their claws and weapons didn’t magically become less lethal.

They do if you become sufficiently durable. In Dragon Ball for example Goku becomes stronger by the season. If Super Saiyan Blue Goku went back to the first episode Raditz would be so far outclassed that he’d endanger himself by hitting him.

Levels in RPGs are the equivalent of DBZ power levels. Sure you don’t gain enough stats to become a moon buster but a base toughness of 5 may correlate to an average person whereas a base toughness of 20 means you’re bulletproof to regular bullets, but still as fragile as a wet paper bag compared to endgame level dragons.

But how to justify levels from a lore standpoint in Guild Wars 2? Maybe we can justify it as we’re back in time and each level represents a different place in our timeline whereas level 80 represents us in the present at our strongest. The polar bears of low level zones are no longer dangerous to our present selves, but they’re dangerous to our past level 10 selves and whenever we visit that map we’re effectively going back in time canonically.

It is the reason i stop reading dragonball combat right after the first super saiyan mode is out. The story us getting stupid, the number of the energy level is overdone. I love the 7 dragonball series where fighting tactics is important, instead of unlimited powerceep in the story.

The level scaling is perfectly fine, reason?

A traditional mmo a maxed lv player is limited to have meaningful combat in endgame zone only, while GW2 a maxed lv player, the whole game any map can have meaning combat. GW2 have some flaws, but this is a feature that make GW2 GREAT.

I can see your point, if you are someone who has big needs, but as a level 80 character you should be focusing on playing ‘meaningful’ content in zones for your area, not low-level zones. Why would anyone want to do that? The map is huge. How much more space do you need?

The arguments players have presented in this thread (most in repetition) just do not justify leaving out the traditional leveling/combat system which true players enjoy.

It’s all about… “I prefer this….”, “…but it’s better this way because..”… NO it isn’t!

Making every zone into a complete access-for-all monopoly is WRONG WRONG WRONG imo.

It also sets a very bad example for the up and coming novice gamer about how to tackle no-win situations in a gaming community.

What % is your map completion when reaching lv80?

None of my character reached 45% when they hit lv80. Are you telling me all my lv80 should only stationed in Orr, dungeon, fractial or raid upon hitting lv80? Maybe you are fine with the the higher lv the less contents to play with kind of style.

Well i am not, i enjoy revisiting some low level map, or some place i never visited. I enjoy party with low level travel around the world helping them on their jounery without killing their joys. I understand that i will be extremely boring if some high level one shot everything cross my path when i am leveling.

The scaling system provide lv80 the replayability to every single corner in Tyria, this is what matters to many of us. We all see that the Traditional MMO style is a classic yet outdated mechanics which seems to make the early maps into desert.

Classic, yes. Outdated, no

You can’t re-design a classic game mechanic in the hope to achieve a better game, when in reality the original design is what drew players in. What you’re asking for is a safety-net for your level 80.

You can’t? Anet did, and it works and generally accepted by the people that play it; the proof is simply the success of the game. And make no mistake, downscaling IS part of the original game design, intended to do exactly the things people have point out. You’re points don’t really work for you here.

You know who else is looking into this? Blizzard with a little game called WoW. The biggest MMO there was and currently is looking exactly into the thing you say can’t be done. If that doesn’t speak to how badly your position is out of line with the industry, nothing does. Better stick to more tired, old MMO’s if one shotting mobs in low level zones is how you want to be entertained.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Obtena.7952:

My statistics are wrong? So half the classes aren’t performing less than average? You know what average means right? Let’s skip the academics because it’s clearly not understood. This is very simple:

If you stick with your class despite changes to it you don’t like, then you’re main motivation to play that class isn’t performance. If you don’t stick with it, then performance is your thing. You have options. You can’t be unreasonable and expect BOTH the concept you want to play and the performance you think it should have. When it happens, it’s nice but it’s not something Anet can target. What doesn’t make sense there to you? Maybe you think it’s easy to get performance and concept to the level players want for every class? I’m not sure why anyone would think that, unless they have almost no experience playing MMO’s.

Your statistics are wrong because the implementation is wrong. Performing less than average is fine as long as the deviation from mean isn’t too big. But it is.

Do you have selective memory loss or something? I told you that other time how strength and class concept work. Don’t play dumb. The concept SHOULD have performance TO FIT the concept AROUND other classes. That’s the point of adjusting balance, and when things only get further from concept the job’s been done wrong.

You’re telling me I’m wrong but somehow, it doesn’t work the way you’re telling me it should … :/

If you are right, we would see people being able to choose their favoured profession and getting relatively equivalent performance between classes happening all the time. It doesn’t. In fact, almost never, unless you get lucky.

BTW, being too far from the mean? That’s just a matter of opinion. On the other hand, 50% of professions below average is always correct. You can wish things you think should be all you want. That doesn’t make them so. Anet, or any other dev team I’ve played their games, do not balance according to some ranking to the other classes to achieve equal performance levels. If they do, they all fail hard at it.

Zenith.7301:

You have an axe mainhand that has some horrible case of mistaken identity just as with the shortbow.

You have a crappy hybrid weapon with a power based, low coefficient autoattack on a weapon whose other skills are condition based.

You could give Ricochet 10 might per hit and it would still suck, because the weapon has no sustained DPS whatsoever due to its miserable autoattack damage, and short of shotgun melee range splitblade you are not doing anything with that weapon in a group setting.

Same goes for shortbow, bunch of hybrid physical and condition skills.

You don’t seem to understand that hybrid builds in PvE SUCK because players stack one stat or the other.

Power builds want to stack ferocity and precision. Condi build will take condi damage, power, and precision.

Because both ricochet and the shortbow skills all have miserly power coefficients, they’re essentially wasted skills on a weapon with 3-4 other skills that deal with conditions.

There is something about GW2 and Axes … much of what you said here applies to Necro Axe as well. Perhaps their is a unified concept for Axes that requires some new thinking and re-applied to classes that have them for main hand weapons. Personally, i think the ‘hybrid’ approach doesn’t make sense in a game where you can swap between weapons specialized for melee and long range as the situation requires.

Aeolus.3615:

Anet in response for all guardians offered a free lvl 80 tome….lol.

Theres your guardian fix, as Anet hates that class so they try to ignore.

People joke about this alot but you know, that’s EXACTLY why we have access to multiple characters, leveling items, etc… Anet wants you to play the game. If that means making it easier for you to choose a profession you like, then it makes sense for them to allow it. Why? Because they KNOW they can’t deliver a class concept with the performance that all players want in that class. It’s not just Anet either … As far back as I can remember, most games allowed you to have multiple characters when there are classes involved; it’s an industry-wide approach.

Any company that doesn’t do it is devaluing a huge part of their assets. The other thing I like about it is that Anet can put new content into those lower zones and keep it interesting instead of developing a whole new area. It’s a very smart way to recycle old content.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Obtena.7952:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Obtena.7952:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

RoseofGilead.8907:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I can easily kill those npcs, but it’s the fact that I saw my health bar draining to somewhere mid-way which shocked me. It just shouldn’t be allowed.

I’m level 80, the monster is level 15!

You’ve played this game long enough to get at least one character to 80, and so I assume you must know how to dodge. Or how to use your class to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from the hit. If you’re an 80 in exotics, you won’t have any trouble against a level 15 mob (assuming you’re in a zone that downlevels you to within a level of 15) as long as you actively participate in the combat.

As for “it shouldn’t be allowed”, it’s Anet’s game. It should be allowed in their game because they want it to be allowed. And that choice of Anet’s appeals to many of us.

No GW2 customer should be expected to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from an enemy npc if they are nearly 4 times above their level.

Why not? No, seriously … why would I want to WASTE my time in a zone doing something where there is no value playing there? Does one-shotting mobs with your auto attack challenge you?

So what exactly do you get from killing an enemy npc in a low level region?

Almost the exact same challenge and loot I get when I play in a level 80 region.

That sounds like a conflict.

Maybe, but it’s a widely accepted one that works and there are no rules that Anet needs to adhere to when making their game. The fact is that it exists, it’s intended and based on the success of the game, it’s not a major negative factor to the people that play it.

Again, if that conflict is so significant to you, don’t go in those zones or perhaps leave the game. Remember, you’re complaining about a core feature of the game that veterans of this game like or at a minimum, are neutral to. You aren’t going to find much consensus for your problem.

Furthermore, this is the second time you’ve posted about this or a similar issue IIRC and I have to wonder what your purpose is here because this is not going to be removed. If anything, it would be ideal to have better downscaling because a number of things are not taken into account when it happens. What’s impressive if that you indicate a level of difficulty in these zones with your level 80 character. That shouldn’t be the case since downscaling is only partial. Someone jokingly mentioned it’s a L2P issue. I can’t help that was only partially intended as a joke.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Obtena.7952:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

RoseofGilead.8907:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I can easily kill those npcs, but it’s the fact that I saw my health bar draining to somewhere mid-way which shocked me. It just shouldn’t be allowed.

I’m level 80, the monster is level 15!

You’ve played this game long enough to get at least one character to 80, and so I assume you must know how to dodge. Or how to use your class to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from the hit. If you’re an 80 in exotics, you won’t have any trouble against a level 15 mob (assuming you’re in a zone that downlevels you to within a level of 15) as long as you actively participate in the combat.

As for “it shouldn’t be allowed”, it’s Anet’s game. It should be allowed in their game because they want it to be allowed. And that choice of Anet’s appeals to many of us.

No GW2 customer should be expected to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from an enemy npc if they are nearly 4 times above their level.

Why not? No, seriously … why would I want to WASTE my time in a zone doing something where there is no value playing there? Does one-shotting mobs with your auto attack challenge you?

So what exactly do you get from killing an enemy npc in a low level region?

(Almost) the exact same challenge and loot I get when I play in a level 80 region. Anet hasn’t got the balance equalized properly, but it’s better than token resistance. Honest question:

Do you get value for your money steamrolling mobs in low level zones? I know I don’t.

This isn’t a question of ‘true’ MMO’s, if GW2 isn’t ‘true’, then I’m all for playing false MMO’s from now on. If people don’t like the game, they don’t have to play it and don’t worry, I don’t think those players will be missed either. Anet’s goal isn’t to keep you as a player if you aren’t satisfied with the fundamental features of the game. They offer a service; that core service is not tailored to every player just to keep them happy.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

RoseofGilead.8907:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I can easily kill those npcs, but it’s the fact that I saw my health bar draining to somewhere mid-way which shocked me. It just shouldn’t be allowed.

I’m level 80, the monster is level 15!

You’ve played this game long enough to get at least one character to 80, and so I assume you must know how to dodge. Or how to use your class to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from the hit. If you’re an 80 in exotics, you won’t have any trouble against a level 15 mob (assuming you’re in a zone that downlevels you to within a level of 15) as long as you actively participate in the combat.

As for “it shouldn’t be allowed”, it’s Anet’s game. It should be allowed in their game because they want it to be allowed. And that choice of Anet’s appeals to many of us.

No GW2 customer should be expected to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from an enemy npc if they are nearly 4 times above their level.

Why not? No, seriously … why would I want to WASTE my time in a zone doing something where there is no value playing there? Does one-shotting mobs with your auto attack challenge you?

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I have the best armour and stats at the moment, and i’m happy with everything. But I just sat back in horror as I watched a level 15 icebrood elemental in a low-level region remove half my health in a few seconds.

If they ever decide to make a gw3 I hope they get rid of that stupid scaling system, because it really makes the game look like child’s play.

Even if my health suddenly drops from 20k to 1.5k, I would expect a low level enemy to struggle against a level 80. My suspicion is that levels are actually meaningless in this game.

I’ve posted on this topic before, and I’m posting again because this is something that is still bugging me.

ADDENDUM: some of these mobs are actually killing me quicker than level 80 mobs.

So wait a minute; the down scaling of your character in low level zones is childs play, but some mobs are killing you faster than a level 80 zone would? I think that says more about the player than the game. I have no issues, even WITH downscaling. Frankly, I don’t think we are downscaled enough if the intention is to make our level of play competitive with a character of the intended level for the zone.

Levels are simply a measure of progression and the fact that Anet finally separated progression from power says quite a bit about how Anet is testing new waters with this game. As you have experienced, the down scaling is there for a reason; to retain the relevance of those zones for ALL players, regardless of level. You might like only having a few zones relevant to you at level 80 because that’s the MMO’s we were all brought up on; I always felt it was stupid. Lots of MMO’s have much to learn from GW2 in some areas and this is one of them.

I’m not going to argue your feelings are right or wrong. I’m just going to tell you that this is how the game is designed, complaining about it is pointless and if it bothers you THAT much, don’t go in those zones or go back to the antiquated MMO’s you’re used to.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Obtena.7952:

Not everyone plays to win, or has a different idea about winning than you do. Some of those ‘wins’ don’t depend on how your class performs.

Even when they do, go back to the statistics lesson I handed out a few posts back. It’s completely unreasonable to expect ‘win’ with underperforming professions and there is no way to avoid having underperforming professions in the game. You have options.

Like I said, if class performance doesn’t matter then you could just do similar with a book or movie. In which case whatever happens to class balance doesn’t matter to you, and you should ignore it.

Your statistics are like so many basic biological models: too simple, therefore wrong. If builds didn’t exist and nothing was customizable you’d be right. But different builds exist and so different builds on different classes should have niche strength.

My statistics are wrong? So half the classes aren’t performing less than average? You know what average means right? Let’s skip the academics because it’s clearly not understood. This is very simple:

If you stick with your class despite changes to it you don’t like, then you’re main motivation to play that class isn’t performance. If you don’t stick with it, then performance is your thing. You have options. You can’t be unreasonable and expect BOTH the concept you want to play and the performance you think it should have. When it happens, it’s nice but it’s not something Anet can target. What doesn’t make sense there to you? Maybe you think it’s easy to get performance and concept to the level players want for every class? I’m not sure why anyone would think that, unless they have almost no experience playing MMO’s.

This is has such a small severity and occurrence, I don’t think it’s worth the time to address it.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Obtena.7952:

I also encourage that because the kind of player that only wants to play to win shouldn’t care what class they are playing anyways and this game actually accommodates them with fast (even INSTANT) leveling and easy character swapping.

This is a game. You play to win the game. If I just wanted flavor, I could read a book. Or watch a movie. But I want to win with flavor. And that I can’t (moreso that people better than me can’t) is where the problem lies.

Not everyone plays to win, or has a different idea about winning than you do. Some of those ‘wins’ don’t depend on how your class performs.

Even when they do, go back to the statistics lesson I handed out a few posts back. It’s completely unreasonable to expect ‘win’ with underperforming professions and there is no way to avoid having underperforming professions in the game. You have options.

You know how much True shot does? Exactly 80% of what it did before patch. Let’s compare apples to apples here people.

I don’t get it … if they want a pure DPS add on chill effect, the solution isn’t a bleed, it’s simply:

“When you apply chill, chill does X damage”.

Boring? Yes. Does anyone really care? Not likely.

Lesson here folks:

Ambiguous arguments are easy to defend.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Obtena.7952:

I agree with that. In fact, I’ve said so myself a number of times. That doesn’t change realities of how this MMO is developed. Does anyone actually think that the behaviour that Anet devs have exhibited from the last 3 years is all the sudden going to change and they will just make amazing spirit weapons out of the blue? Not a chance! So what’s to get upset about? We have a very predictable behaviour here. No one should be surprised for sure and if it bothers people that much, you got options.

Which is why I encourage everyone to just quit playing guardian.

Everything the class does can be done better by engineer, ele & rev while having more flexibility and options.

Until people quit playing guardian in mass they will never acknowledge they have royally F$%^# up the vast majority of the class.

I also encourage that because the kind of player that only wants to play to win shouldn’t care what class they are playing anyways and this game actually accommodates them with fast (even INSTANT) leveling and easy character swapping.