Guild Wars 2

Other than the ‘different’ factor, why do we need this?

Moyayuki.3619:

STIHL.2489:

Obtena.7952:

Again … it’s clear you haven’t been in one of these daily farming rooms. You don’t get ganked and you don’t need to like PVP to get your daily achievement in one of these rooms, casual or not.

Gonna have to disagree with you, while thankfully not often, sometimes PvP trolls do go to Daily rooms just to gank and make a total nuance of themselves.

The discussion is if dailies are more casual friendly since patch, which they are. There are more options to do on your own timeline = more casual friendly.

I dunno, looking at the list, I think the old dailies were in fact faster and easier. I mean the new ones are not hard by any standard, but you gotta admit, the older ones were easier.

Waaay easier in comparison, yes. We could get Dailies done just by dodging attacks x amount of times, and so forth. But then, the rewards weren’t nearly as good, and now, with Dailies having more angles to them, we get better rewards and there is the Daily chest to boot. I just have issues with some days’ Dailies being incredibly inconvenient, but also miss there being no world bosses anymore (someone pointed that out recently and I never realized ).

Again, I already qualified that the only way dailies could get easier is if they became trivial, which is what dodging X times is. As much as trivial activities appeal because they are easy, it’s not a good image for the game to uphold; not sure if you realize this but games aren’t intended to be trivial in nature. If that’s your gig, MMO’s aren’t for you or at least the non-trivial parts. The current dailies maintain casual friendly activities without insulting it’s player base.

Moyayuki.3619:

Obtena.7952:

Put it this way … if you don’t repeat periodic events, then they are exactly like hearts, so the idea that Events aren’t an option for someone that likes doing hearts or aren’t an option for the people that think hearts is better than events is not sensible.

sigh I never claimed that the dynamic events were “not an option” for people who prefer hearts…

Then why was there ever a clear distinction between the two for this discussion in the first place? Preference or hearts or events … is quite irrelevant w.r.t. looking at if HoT is playable solo or not.

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Invictus.1503:

Djinn.9245:

Invictus.1503:

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Look at it this way. The daily is a reward for completing a set of tasks. It is completely optional in every way. If you want the reward, complete the tasks.

A system designed to reward players for participating daily should be open to all types of players. Not only players who like or don’t mind certain types of content. Anyone familiar with MMOs in general knows that a LARGE percentage of players seriously dislike PvP, and yet GW2 dailies are mainly PvP oriented. This is simply a fact.

It is obvious that ANet wants to reward those players more than PvE players. Wanting to reward one group of players over another is unfair. I’m not saying that ANet shouldn’t do whatever they want – its their game. But there’s nothing wrong with the players on the short end of the stick complaining about it.

This argument is a dangerous one to make.

I’m not making an argument, I’m stating a fact. The Dailies system is weighted for PvP.

Even that fact doesn’t make dailies less casual since the patch. The fact that dailies are weighted for PVP … and PVP achievements are farmed by PVE people in dedicated PVP rooms show the opposite of what you are trying to argue; dailies are very casual friendly.

PvP rooms are not gank-proof. So if you really don’t like PvP, you won’t do that either.

Again … it’s clear you haven’t been in one of these daily farming rooms. You don’t get ganked and you don’t need to like PVP to get your daily achievement in one of these rooms, casual or not.

Of course, that’s all moot anyways. The argument here isn’t if you or others like it. That’s irrelevant. the discussion is if dailies are more casual friendly since patch, which they are. There are more options to do on your own timeline = more casual friendly.

Djinn.9245:

Invictus.1503:

Djinn.9245:

Invictus.1503:

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Look at it this way. The daily is a reward for completing a set of tasks. It is completely optional in every way. If you want the reward, complete the tasks.

A system designed to reward players for participating daily should be open to all types of players. Not only players who like or don’t mind certain types of content. Anyone familiar with MMOs in general knows that a LARGE percentage of players seriously dislike PvP, and yet GW2 dailies are mainly PvP oriented. This is simply a fact.

It is obvious that ANet wants to reward those players more than PvE players. Wanting to reward one group of players over another is unfair. I’m not saying that ANet shouldn’t do whatever they want – its their game. But there’s nothing wrong with the players on the short end of the stick complaining about it.

This argument is a dangerous one to make.

I’m not making an argument, I’m stating a fact. The Dailies system is weighted for PvP.

Even that fact doesn’t make dailies less casual since the patch. The fact that dailies are weighted for PVP … and PVP achievements are farmed by PVE people in dedicated PVP rooms show the opposite of what you are trying to argue; dailies are very casual friendly.

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

So no, you don’t need to be a PVP expert to get your dailies

I never said you had to be a PvP expert to do dailies. I said that some people don’t LIKE PvP.

You don’t need to like PVP … because the people in those rooms aren’t PVPing. they literally stand there for kills and completion. This is why I say you aren’t knowledgeable about how casual the dailies actually are … because clearly you haven’t exposed yourself to them enough to make an objective judgement.

It’s funny you say I’m parroting what you said, but come to a completely opposite conclusion than I did. Of course, I’m not betting that anyone that thinks they are less casual friendly has done the critical thinking that would be necessary to see it’s not.

Put it this way … if you don’t repeat periodic events, then they are exactly like hearts, so the idea that Events aren’t an option for someone that likes doing hearts or aren’t an option for the people that think hearts is better than events is not sensible.

Djinn.9245:

Moyayuki.3619:

Being a casual player who has a full-time job and doesn’t get to play much when I am able to log in, I feel that recent changes to the Dailies have made it more difficult to complete. I don’t understand why they couldn’t have kept the do-able ones for those of us who have less gametime, while also adding the more intense ones for higher-level toons. As it is now, whenever I log in the list of Dailies that automatically show up on my UI are mostly ones that I don’t have the time nor the level of character for. I realize there are a lot more within the Hero window, of course. But it just feels like the choices have dwindled.

Now, I know some people may jump in here and claim that Dailies are meant to push us out of comfort zone and go explore more content, but not all of us have the time to go to the 80-level zones, run dungeons, or play PvP/WvW. Other people may also state that those of us who can’t play often have no right to earn the Daily rewards, that if the devs created more casual-friendly Daily content, it would be “dumbing down” the Daily system and somehow affect die-hard players.

What do the rest of you think about the changes to the Daily system? And has anyone else had issues pursuing the Dailies as a result? Let’s try to have a friendly, constructive, conversation here, and not attack each other.

I agree with the OP that Dailies aren’t geared toward casual players. Many of the replies say “it took me 9 minutes to do my Dailies, how much more casual do you want?” But “easy” is not the same as “casual”. “Easy” is subjective for one. And WvW is not casual, PvP is not casual, World Bosses are not casual, JP are not casual, etc..

That’s a whole lot of stuff coming form someone who obviously hasn’t investigated these things.

Easy doesn’t mean casual … doing things on your own timeline means casual and many of the dailies are exactly that … able to be done when YOU want to do them.

Furthermore, most of those things you list are casual, not only because you can do them when you want to, but because people have set them up to be that way. For instance, PVP dailies are almost faster to do than PVE ones, because people have made specific PVP rooms JUST for people to complete their dailies …

So no, you don’t need to be a PVP expert to get your dailies from PVP as a casual PVE player. Your post shows so much lack of knowledge.

Shiyo.3578:

Harper.4173:

I honestly don’t get how DS is not farmable.
Get into map – people start doing stuff – tab out and wait.
First camps are taken – go to each one and open the 5-7 chests at each camp – tab out again.
Second camps are taken – go to each camp – open the 5-7 chests – tab out again.
Repeat until event is over. Loot all the end-map pods.

You’ve gotten all your pods.
You’ve watched you favorite youtube video/movie.

Where is problem?

Auric basin chests pay for themselves with aurlium lumps you get per opening(grands). You do not get any currency back from opening noxious pods, and machetes are much more expensive.

Noxious pods also give much less loot.

They do not pay for themselves because you do not get enough lumps to buy another key from each chest you loot. It’s not even a relevant point to your argument from what I can see.

Here is the problem with your complaint. it seems to me that you think Anet is not aware that they have created the perfect storm to allow people to buy keys and use them in this chest phase of AB … yet you have to think at some level, THEY designed it that way. They purposefully made keys available for sale with lumps, opening chests gives lumps and loot and there are Grand chests available to open when completing the meta on a given map.

Seems to me that you aren’t giving Anet much credit for being aware of how the game THEY designed actually works. I’m betting this; Anet was at least knowledgeable enough to know people would buy keys and optimize their loot collection from Grand chests, so at a minimum, the ability to log multiple characters to loot Grand chests in a specific map instance isn’t going away.

map hopping … Again, I don’t think Anet is so unaware of how their game works that they didn’t see this coming and in all honesty, it’s not something they can fix without completely screwing over how players work around their broken megaservers … so that’s not going away either.

You not being able to finish the dailies does not mean they are not casual friendly. It’s extremely disingenuous to claim this while purposefully excluding yourself from certain types of daily activities. Anet can not reasonably cater to the player that restricts themselves in this fashion.

I still don’t see why they would do that, assuming that it is a mistake. There isn’t really a purpose for them to run around and make a whole bunch of “we were wrong about this” statements on minor issues, regardless if they intend to fix them or not. We got over 3 years of experience with this dev team to know their behaviours … it’s not something they do and I wouldn’t want to see them start wasting their time on such a thing either … they got things to fix.

Moyayuki.3619:

Obtena.7952:

So what are you implying? Something needs to hurting players in other areas because you think it hurts PVE players? I don’t get your point there. You have the right to voice your frustration, just like me and others have the right to voice how unreasonable your frustrations are.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Anet has made dailies more casual friendly since last patch. I mean, unless you want daily rewards to be absolutely trivial, based on exactly what you are willing to do, then I don’t think very many people understand what your frustrations are here. The barrier to getting your daily EVERY day is very low and they certainly aren’t less casual friendly because there are certain elements that you might not like doing.

I am sorry, I will clarify: A lot of the time, when people seem to make a big deal about Dailies being “casual-friendly” or PvE-“friendly”, it comes off as a grievance, since everything else that is not “casual”/PvE, is therefore the more competitive aspects of the game, namely PvP and WvW (based on the amount of threads on this site and all the different patches to the game, PvP and WvW are just as big and important as PvE to many.). Honestly, I would wish that any changes ANet makes to the game would not hurt/favor one game mode over another.

I don’t think I am being “unreasonable”, especially since I am not “whining” nor am I demanding ANet cater to my every little whim. That’s the last thing I want to do. I actually rarely ever post in these forums, so that is saying something, I suppose. Not looking for a fight – not to attack or be attacked for differences.

You’re inexperience in these forums is evident; no one is attacking you for differences. It’s simply that no one really understands what your real issue, how to have a reasonable discussion about it and what is being suggested Anet should do. If I understand your purpose for making the thread, it’s to request that changes Anet makes to dailies are equal over all three aspects of the game? I mean, I still don’t get how there is a problem there .. There are casual’s in all three of these aspects of the game and the daily conditions between the three aspects of the game aren’t even related to each other; that means that any change in one aspect has zero impact on the other two.

So what are you implying? Something needs to hurting players in other areas because you think it hurts PVE players? I don’t get your point there. You have the right to voice your frustration, just like me and others have the right to voice how unreasonable your frustrations are.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Anet has made dailies more casual friendly since last patch. I mean, unless you want daily rewards to be absolutely trivial, based on exactly what you are willing to do, then I don’t think very many people understand what your frustrations are here. The barrier to getting your daily EVERY day is very low and they certainly aren’t less casual friendly because there are certain elements that you might not like doing or feel you don’t have time for.

I can’t stress how ridiculous that sounds to me … getting a vista, gathering or doing a JP are not things that should challenge ANYONE with time-restricted play.

No, but you are complaining they are less casual-friendly when in fact, they have recently been made MORE casual friendly.

Actually … the gems to gold exchange is awesome if your a new player … your money NEVER bought so much gold as it does now.

just saying

Why would there be an official response from Anet? What do you think they are going to tell you if they did?

Shiyo.3578:

I would really like Anet to be aware of this. Please.

HAHA, Anet isn’t aware … I had a good chuckle.

Seriously, I don’t think this is realistic … they have ADDED JP’s as a reward and kept all the other ones they had. That’s MORE casual friendly.

Moyayuki.3619:

Obtena.7952:

Moyayuki.3619:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

TexZero.7910:

battledrone.8315:

Dlarnkk.1068:

Inc a famous slogan,

‘Please nerf Tequalt. Apparently I need friends to beat him, and I don’t wants friends! I wanna look cool, and beat the crap out of him with my mesmer!’

[ People still forget this is a MMO, and not singleplayer game.]

if i live in a city, do i have to shake hands with every person on the street?
this is the same

No but your property tax will be relative to the area you reside in….

(Read: even though you may not do anything with your neighbors they still have an impact on your daily life)

And your city isn’t the question. I’m 100% sure in a war zone that wouldn’t be the case. We’re not in our city but in enemy territory with makeshift camps. We didn’t settle or explore this area. In such cases, people do depend on each other to stay alive.

well they have have to do without me , i just uninstalled
better to stop now, before the frustration ruins the rest of the experience
core tyria was one of the best mmos ive ever played, too bad they couldnt make more of that

Core Tyria was awesome but the game had kitten. That is core Tyria, everywhere pretty much, was braindead easy. I mean really easy. The idea that harder content was lacking is what was provided.

If you can’t do that content, then sure, you made the right choice. But if they just added more like core Tyria they’d have wasted an opportunity to expand the game, which is what an expansion should do.

My suspicion is the next expansion will be very different.

it prolly will, but too little, too late
3 years , and they only made 2 new hearts
i could prolly do it, if i really had to
if i wanted to put in the hours of work and frustrations
id rather do that in a game, where i get some actual progress for my commitment

Anet even said before launch, hearts were never meant to be main content. They didn’t even exist till the third beta. The purpose of hearts is to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawn. They had to add them, because they noticed people just running by stuff and not stopping because they didn’t have a star on their map.

Hearts, for the most part, are the most boring, mind-numbing content you can put in an MMO. Kill these guys, water these plants, collect these things. A couple of them, very few, had a bit of depth but if that’s the kind of thing you’re looking for, I’m okay with you not liking the game.

Because more hearts would only make me groan…unless they did them completely differently than the first hearts.

If hearts is your idea of content, good luck finding any MMO that appeals to you after you hit level cap.

I was always under the impression that the “hearts” were GW2’s version of quests that you find in other MMOs (WoW, ESO, etc.), which essentially act as a way to level up your character and keep you busy. What would GW2 be like without hearts, then? Just group events, dungeons, and personal story/Living World? That would be awfully boring. If hearts were added in later, then it was obviously meant to stand in as “quests” and to give more options for gamers.

That might indeed be your impression. To say that’s aligned to the intend is a different story. I don’t think it’s realistic to say GW2 would be boring if hearts didn’t exist because as Vayne already outlined, you can do most of them by not even consciously trying to do them. he already also outlined why hearts were added … to keep players in the zones while timed events occurred.

For me, I would be bored if there were no hearts, because that would only leave the endlessly repeating events and world bosses. I like having the choice of leveling via “quests” that are done-once-and-done (which Personal Story and Living World are as well), as it’s something to keep me busy and give XP without having to repeat the same event over and over. It would get stale, honestly.

But, of course, to each their own. If someone loves to do the map/world events, while at the same time completing the hearts that they don’t care as much about, that choice is theirs. I’d argue that the rewards for completing a map are not amazing enough to really penalize people who don’t care for it (unless they want the 100% world completion rewards, that is). Many better items can be obtained in other game modes (dungeons, PvP, WvW, etc.). So there is an element of choice.

Except you wouldn’t be repeating events over and over again … you level, you go to different maps appropriate for your level, you do different quests in each one. You make it sound like the ONLY thing to do is super-fun, one-timer hearts and boring, repeatable quests. That’s a very shallow and misunderstood view of what the game offers.

The REAL difference between Events and Hearts is that Hearts you can only do once on your timetable; Events happen periodically. From a conceptual point of view, it’s the same kinds of activities so neither can be less boring than the other if you do each one once. I will give you this: hearts are a BIG upgrade from the typical quests you get in other MMOs that make you run around, do something, then go back for reward. That is definitely lekittenous, but I’m not certain it changes the boring level compared to Events.

Moyayuki.3619:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

TexZero.7910:

battledrone.8315:

Dlarnkk.1068:

Inc a famous slogan,

‘Please nerf Tequalt. Apparently I need friends to beat him, and I don’t wants friends! I wanna look cool, and beat the crap out of him with my mesmer!’

[ People still forget this is a MMO, and not singleplayer game.]

if i live in a city, do i have to shake hands with every person on the street?
this is the same

No but your property tax will be relative to the area you reside in….

(Read: even though you may not do anything with your neighbors they still have an impact on your daily life)

And your city isn’t the question. I’m 100% sure in a war zone that wouldn’t be the case. We’re not in our city but in enemy territory with makeshift camps. We didn’t settle or explore this area. In such cases, people do depend on each other to stay alive.

well they have have to do without me , i just uninstalled
better to stop now, before the frustration ruins the rest of the experience
core tyria was one of the best mmos ive ever played, too bad they couldnt make more of that

Core Tyria was awesome but the game had kitten. That is core Tyria, everywhere pretty much, was braindead easy. I mean really easy. The idea that harder content was lacking is what was provided.

If you can’t do that content, then sure, you made the right choice. But if they just added more like core Tyria they’d have wasted an opportunity to expand the game, which is what an expansion should do.

My suspicion is the next expansion will be very different.

it prolly will, but too little, too late
3 years , and they only made 2 new hearts
i could prolly do it, if i really had to
if i wanted to put in the hours of work and frustrations
id rather do that in a game, where i get some actual progress for my commitment

Anet even said before launch, hearts were never meant to be main content. They didn’t even exist till the third beta. The purpose of hearts is to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawn. They had to add them, because they noticed people just running by stuff and not stopping because they didn’t have a star on their map.

Hearts, for the most part, are the most boring, mind-numbing content you can put in an MMO. Kill these guys, water these plants, collect these things. A couple of them, very few, had a bit of depth but if that’s the kind of thing you’re looking for, I’m okay with you not liking the game.

Because more hearts would only make me groan…unless they did them completely differently than the first hearts.

If hearts is your idea of content, good luck finding any MMO that appeals to you after you hit level cap.

I was always under the impression that the “hearts” were GW2’s version of quests that you find in other MMOs (WoW, ESO, etc.), which essentially act as a way to level up your character and keep you busy. What would GW2 be like without hearts, then? Just group events, dungeons, and personal story/Living World? That would be awfully boring. If hearts were added in later, then it was obviously meant to stand in as “quests” and to give more options for gamers.

That might indeed be your impression. To say that’s aligned to the intend is a different story. I don’t think it’s realistic to say GW2 would be boring if hearts didn’t exist because as Vayne already outlined, you can do most of them by not even consciously trying to do them. he already also outlined why hearts were added … to keep players in the zones while timed events occurred.

You’re not describing something that’s uniquely limited to PVP changes … you might not like Shield on your Mesmer for PVE changes as well … or WvW for that matter. If you aren’t willing to rethink you’re builds when the game changes, you shouldn’t even be playing MMO’s … they change ALL the time.

I mean, what would you do if they did a PVP change and it affected your PVP build and skins choice? These things are INEVITABLE in MMO’s. They aren’t the exception, they are the regular occurrence. If you can’t accept the risk of crafting a legendary that you think you might not be using in the future because of game changes … you have a choice.

If anything, any gold you put into ‘protection’ should cost you a small chunk of your gold.

You might feel that way … but you’ve been getting your WvW gear from PVE for the last 3.5 years … you think that’s going to change somehow? I think that’s a little unrealistic.

Seems to me a reasonable solution is for Anet to make Taxi’ing easier for players. It’s actually a pretty good approach I think.

He’s not saying to be happy about it, but he’s not saying you should pout and act out every time either. Basically, I think the underlying message here is to be a little more mature about it. I know some people are convinced that doing this gets them what they want … I can assure you that devs do not respond to that well.

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

TexZero.7910:

battledrone.8315:

Dlarnkk.1068:

Inc a famous slogan,

‘Please nerf Tequalt. Apparently I need friends to beat him, and I don’t wants friends! I wanna look cool, and beat the crap out of him with my mesmer!’

[ People still forget this is a MMO, and not singleplayer game.]

if i live in a city, do i have to shake hands with every person on the street?
this is the same

No but your property tax will be relative to the area you reside in….

(Read: even though you may not do anything with your neighbors they still have an impact on your daily life)

And your city isn’t the question. I’m 100% sure in a war zone that wouldn’t be the case. We’re not in our city but in enemy territory with makeshift camps. We didn’t settle or explore this area. In such cases, people do depend on each other to stay alive.

well they have have to do without me , i just uninstalled
better to stop now, before the frustration ruins the rest of the experience
core tyria was one of the best mmos ive ever played, too bad they couldnt make more of that

Core Tyria was awesome but the game had kitten. That is core Tyria, everywhere pretty much, was braindead easy. I mean really easy. The idea that harder content was lacking is what was provided.

If you can’t do that content, then sure, you made the right choice. But if they just added more like core Tyria they’d have wasted an opportunity to expand the game, which is what an expansion should do.

My suspicion is the next expansion will be very different.

it prolly will, but too little, too late
3 years , and they only made 2 new hearts
i could prolly do it, if i really had to
if i wanted to put in the hours of work and frustrations
id rather do that in a game, where i get some actual progress for my commitment

Anet even said before launch, hearts were never meant to be main content. They didn’t even exist till the third beta. The purpose of hearts is to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawn. They had to add them, because they noticed people just running by stuff and not stopping because they didn’t have a star on their map.

Hearts, for the most part, are the most boring, mind-numbing content you can put in an MMO. Kill these guys, water these plants, collect these things. A couple of them, very few, had a bit of depth but if that’s the kind of thing you’re looking for, I’m okay with you not liking the game.

Because more hearts would only make me groan…unless they did them completely differently than the first hearts.

If hearts is your idea of content, good luck finding any MMO that appeals to you after you hit level cap.

you hate 95% of this game, but still claim, that i was in the wrong place?
good luck with that..youre gonna need it
yep , i drop most mmos way before end game..or rather end grind
i dont wanna dig through a ton of unwanted pixels, just to get the few, that i actually want

There is some interesting truth … You drop most MMO’s, yet you’re complaining about how this one works? Obviously you shouldn’t be playing them … or imposing your ideas of how they should work on the regulars if you admittedly aren’t someone that enjoys them in the first place. Not sure why anyone should take anything you say seriously if you can’t even hold on long enough to experience most of what MMO’s offer.

when a game stops being fun, i stop playing it

That’s clear … but your own self-admitted history history suggests you don’t enjoy what MMO’s have to offer in the first place. Kind of begs the question on how relevant your views are for how MMO’s should work.

I really like the Power GS build in open world. You close fast, interrupt when needed and #2 can one shot in most zones and has a low recharge. Being stunned, interrupted isn’t as big an issue either because pets keep on hitting … or your pet takes the attack for you. My only issue with Ranger is cleansing but you rarely need it so the CD on the signet that cleanses is very reasonable.

Admittedly, haven’t tried sword since the last patch. I still stick with LB on swap for access to barbreaking knockback but if you don’t like that option, there are a few other ranged you can choose from. Very useful in HoT.

I’m just experimenting with Axe condi builds … a little slower in open world for sure. It DOES build bleeds extremely fast though, with covering conditions as well.

Fluffball.8307:

I think I read somewhere that the breakpoint for when condi beats power is if the fight lasts 30 seconds or more. That’s probably not the right number, but the general idea is sound.

Now that’s new to me and interesting. Do you know where you might have read that? I would like to dig further.

Aeolus.3615:

Obtena must belong to the balance team, how much broke design you wish to enforce here?

Could not resit to joke about it, sorry.

>:}

That’s OK … I’m not enforcing any broken designs. I’m not talking about whether they are broken or not.

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

TexZero.7910:

battledrone.8315:

Dlarnkk.1068:

Inc a famous slogan,

‘Please nerf Tequalt. Apparently I need friends to beat him, and I don’t wants friends! I wanna look cool, and beat the crap out of him with my mesmer!’

[ People still forget this is a MMO, and not singleplayer game.]

if i live in a city, do i have to shake hands with every person on the street?
this is the same

No but your property tax will be relative to the area you reside in….

(Read: even though you may not do anything with your neighbors they still have an impact on your daily life)

And your city isn’t the question. I’m 100% sure in a war zone that wouldn’t be the case. We’re not in our city but in enemy territory with makeshift camps. We didn’t settle or explore this area. In such cases, people do depend on each other to stay alive.

well they have have to do without me , i just uninstalled
better to stop now, before the frustration ruins the rest of the experience
core tyria was one of the best mmos ive ever played, too bad they couldnt make more of that

Core Tyria was awesome but the game had kitten. That is core Tyria, everywhere pretty much, was braindead easy. I mean really easy. The idea that harder content was lacking is what was provided.

If you can’t do that content, then sure, you made the right choice. But if they just added more like core Tyria they’d have wasted an opportunity to expand the game, which is what an expansion should do.

My suspicion is the next expansion will be very different.

it prolly will, but too little, too late
3 years , and they only made 2 new hearts
i could prolly do it, if i really had to
if i wanted to put in the hours of work and frustrations
id rather do that in a game, where i get some actual progress for my commitment

Anet even said before launch, hearts were never meant to be main content. They didn’t even exist till the third beta. The purpose of hearts is to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawn. They had to add them, because they noticed people just running by stuff and not stopping because they didn’t have a star on their map.

Hearts, for the most part, are the most boring, mind-numbing content you can put in an MMO. Kill these guys, water these plants, collect these things. A couple of them, very few, had a bit of depth but if that’s the kind of thing you’re looking for, I’m okay with you not liking the game.

Because more hearts would only make me groan…unless they did them completely differently than the first hearts.

If hearts is your idea of content, good luck finding any MMO that appeals to you after you hit level cap.

you hate 95% of this game, but still claim, that i was in the wrong place?
good luck with that..youre gonna need it
yep , i drop most mmos way before end game..or rather end grind
i dont wanna dig through a ton of unwanted pixels, just to get the few, that i actually want

There is some interesting truth … You drop most MMO’s, yet you’re complaining about how this one works? Obviously you shouldn’t be playing them … or imposing your ideas of how they should work on the regulars if you admittedly aren’t someone that enjoys them in the first place. Not sure why anyone should take anything you say seriously if you can’t even hold on long enough to experience most of what MMO’s offer.

Ragnarox.9601:

Don’t argue with Obtena, just ignore him, hes flaming you.

Guardian is now in the end of food chain but hoping some buffs may come in 2 months.

Hardly .. if he didn’t want to have a discussion with me, he wouldn’t have replied to my comments in the first place.

Fay.2357:

Obtena.7952:

People play this game competitively for money and Anet wants it to work for them. Call it whatever makes you happy. my point changes none.

Imagine how dull league of legends would be if it only had 10 champions and one single optimal way to build each one. There would be little to no variety in each match, just variations and repetitions of the same tired strategies, the same rotations; nothing interesting, new, or entertaining. That’s GW2 pvp right now.

Hell will freeze over before they successfully make an eSport out of this game as long as the diversity and complexity of pvp builds and fights stays at the bare minimum level. I appreciate the difficulty involved with balancing for multiple viable builds, but if they want their precious esports to succeed, they need to step up their balancing game enormously.

Yeah … glad I’m not playing it. I don’t dispute what you are saying here.

It’s an easy refutation to make; none of those statements say “We are totally nerfing/buffing class A because class B is this.” In fact, I’ve seen it in no MMO ever. It’s simply not done.

In addition, as long as you can’t provide any statements that show it’s the devs intentions to balance classes according to what other classes do, I can’t really dispute that. It speaks for itself.

Seems to me you haven’t objectively thought about how balance can happen within a class and it’s own skills to align with how the devs want the class to play and the parameters of the game. I can’t really help you with that, other than to say every MMO works this way. Just have to look.

You provided nothing what I’ve asked you to show me. None of what you have posted there contains balance-related statements that demonstrate between-class balancing efforts that originates from a Dev. There is no weaseling here .. I’m asserting that devs don’t balance a class based on what others classes do because of what I see happening in the game, namely the large disparity between class performance. I’m also asserting this isn’t due to incompetence or lack of will to try, but the massive complexity of attempting to do so and accomplishing little.

Despite this strong evidence, you decided to challenge that assertion with random statements about how devs are assessing individual class performances … which, if anything, supports my own hypothesis there is no between-class balancing going on. Only in the most indirect fashion can anyone claim there is between-class balancing because there are overall ranges for damage or healing, etc… but that’s never been a concentrated efforts by devs to make SPECIFIC between-class balance efforts.

Anything else?

King Cephalopod.7942:

Obtena.7952:

Neither have I. I’ve never read a balance thread where a dev said “Oh, we are changing this because this other class does this” or “This class is the worst performing so here you go”.

Thaladred.1406:

Guardian
In keeping with the general theme of improving less used options, we’ve been updating both traits and abilities to be more useful and to have a meaningful impact when you equip them. The dragonhunter elite specialization has proven to have a very solid impact in many areas of the game, but they’ve been a tad too effective in the areas of burst and disruption, and we’ll be looking to make slight adjustments in those areas.

RIP Guardians? Taking away what little they had left.

From “Profession Balance Goals Released-Guardian” from a few months ago. Read the “too effective” part and tell me what it means or refers to.
Riddle me this Socrates: if they don’t balance by performance, why do devs change anything at all? Why don’t they just plop things down and leave them from the moment of creation?

I don’t see any references there to balance W.R.T. other classes … unless of course ‘burst’ and ‘disruption’ are code names for classes that I’m not familiar with.

If you’re going to threaten me with quotes from Devs to prove me wrong about the existence of between-class balancing goals, efforts, statements, you might want to find ones that are relevant.

You’ve retooled you PVE gear because of PVP changes? I’m calling you out on that one. They don’t use the same gear, so why would anything BUT gear changed due to PVP affect the gear you use in PVE? PVE gear needs are determined by getting as much offense as you can with a little defense as you need. I’ve yet to see such a dramatic change due to PVP changes that would make anyone rethink that.

Besides, even if it did … it’s not really a reason to cry about it … games evolve, meta changes … to think you won’t want to adjust your gear because of game changes that happen in an MMO is nonsensical in the first place, regardless of where they happen. Any MMO veteran almost expects game changes to affect how they play, gear they use, etc…

Anet does not want players playing specific classes, builds, etc… That whole mindset and any arguments or thinking it’s based on makes no sense. Honestly, there is no motivation for Anet to boost or reduce the number of players using any particular class in this game; there is no trinity.

I don’t see why people don’t get it. The fact that classes are not equivalent to each other in performance is either:

1. Anet doesn’t try to do it
2. It’s so hard to do, they can’t

Either way, it’s not going to happen. Not because Anet is terrible or anything like that … because it’s actually no point in doing so based on decades of seeing of MMO’s not have it for the same two reasons above. it’s simply an expectation imposed by players that don’t want to play below-performance classes. Problem with this is that there is ALWAYS below-performance classes and SOMEONE plays them. It’s just the nature of multiclass MMO.

Class balance, as you guys are thinking it should be, simply does not exist in MMO gaming.

What is fun is subjective. I have the MOST fun trying to figure out how much of HoT I COULD solo … I was pleasantly surprised. I think it’s a fallacy to claim contemporary MMO is catering more to the solo player AND that GW2 or even HoT doesn’t do that.

Zenith.7301:

Some day you’ll actually bother to split balancing for the kitten formats.

Actaully, some day they won’t because balance is so inconsequential to PVE in this game that it can be ignored with no consequence, other than players that complain about PVE balance regardless of what happens anyways.

I’m not against splitting but the reality is that if splitting was going to happen, it would have happened already.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Obtena.7952:

You see, that’s what actually makes it not a problem. You’re assuming that devs in GW2 and other games are scrambling hard to try to balance all the classes against each other so they are all ‘equivalent’ and they fail at doing so. It’s more like … they don’t and recognize it’s a fools errand to do so. Again … have yet to play, see or hear any MMO accomplish this or make it some penultimate goal. Between class balance is simply not a goal.

I’ve never met someone so aggressively against learning. Go back to the older balance threads I talked to you in and re-read them, or I’ll be forced to start quoting them here. Alternatively, read any of the PvP-based patch notes about how they nerf/buff classes in accordance with perceived PvP performance, which is a direct translation of between class balance. If they aren’t balancing against other classes they aren’t balancing. If that were the case they might as well make Guardian staff autos do 2k base damage +1.5x every stat we have.

Neither have I. I’ve never read a balance thread where a dev said “Oh, we are changing this because this other class does this” or “This class is the worst performing so here you go”.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Obtena.7952:

K, you hate what they do to the class … let’s not cloud our objective judgement with emotions here. A few skills that were OP’ed were acknowledged and fixed. Yup, it took a few years … again, that’s not unique to GW2. I’ve played lots of MMO’s where specific broken skills were allowed to persist for years.

Oh that’s funny. And just because other MMO’s share a problem doesn’t excuse or justify the failings of this game.

You see, that’s what actually makes it not a problem. You’re assuming that devs in GW2 and other games are scrambling hard to try to balance all the classes against each other so they are all ‘equivalent’ and they fail at doing so. It’s more like … they don’t and recognize it’s a fools errand to do so. Again … have yet to play, see or hear any MMO accomplish this or make it some penultimate goal. Between class balance is simply not a goal.

K, you hate what they do to the class … let’s not cloud our objective judgement with emotions here. A few skills that were OP’ed were acknowledged and fixed. Yup, it took a few years … again, that’s not unique to GW2. I’ve played lots of MMO’s where specific broken skills were allowed to persist for years.

I think that’s just a matter of experience. Absolutely dreadful? how do you even measure that? Compared to what? Other MMO’s with class unbalance in PVP? It doesn’t even makes sense to do so. I’m not here to convince you Guardians are great in PVP or anything but let’s have a realistic baseline. No one who has the authority to change any of this is going to respond to sensational statements like that.

cranos.5913:

Obtena.7952:

This game has as much FOTM as any other. We had shifting meta’s for years before the first Xpac was released.

Let’s face it, that only happened in sPvP. WvW was GWEN for life and pve… well was pve I guess.

OK, but that doesn’t change the fact that GW2 isn’t unique somehow for class balance in MMO’s. In fact, if there is ANY place where an MMO has the most class balance complaints, it’s PVP anyways, so your just confirming my point.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Elstar.7864:

Stopped playing when that jumping puzzle pre-expansion zone was introduced. Came here to forums checking what’s new in the expansion. So, more jumping puzzles and group-only open world content? Not worth buying, I guess.

..or worth buying if you’re into that.

But that’s beside the point, since it’s not group-only content. Plenty you can do solo with only exotics. I know there is because I’m anti-social and I’m enjoying the jungle on my lonesome very much.

If everyone just looked at the things they didn’t like in games to decide to buy … no one would ever buy any.

This game has as much FOTM as any other. We had shifting meta’s for years before the first Xpac was released.

I’ve yet to play a game with multiple classes that gets balance right … what you see here isn’t exceptional, it’s standard.

Sylent.3165:

Obtena.7952:

Sylent.3165:

DeanBB.4268:

Belinda’s GS was available recently, like last month.

It was at the end of February while I was on vacation and missed it.

So now apparently I may need to wait another year for this skin which is annoying

So wait … Anet doesn’t want your money because you went on a vacation when they planned to sell limited time items? I guess you forgot to send them your schedule!

No, anet does not want my money because right now I am trying to give it to them and they refuse to sell goods that are wanted

Those goods aren’t available. Maybe if you give them your schedule, they will work around it for you.

Sylent.3165:

DeanBB.4268:

Belinda’s GS was available recently, like last month.

It was at the end of February while I was on vacation and missed it.

So now apparently I may need to wait another year for this skin which is annoying

So wait … Anet doesn’t want your money because you went on a vacation when they planned to sell limited time items? I guess you forgot to send them your schedule!

Farzo.8410:

Obtena.7952:

This is exactly as I suspected; nothing that will make anyone rethink how they play the class; yet another affirmation that Guardians ARE the target balance class Anet wants it to be. If that bothers you, seriously find another class now. How many patches do you need before you come to appreciate this point?

Until they fix close to useless weapon attacks, utilities that never see the use of them because it does so little on the CD they have, and traits that doesn’t make any sense being in the lines they are or doesn’t synergies with anything else at all.

That has actually zero to do with balance so my question still stands. Those things don’t work but that doesn’t mean Gaurdians don’t perform like Anet wants them to.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Obtena.7952:

This is exactly as I suspected; nothing that will make anyone rethink how they play the class; yet another affirmation that Guardians ARE the target balance class Anet wants it to be. If that bothers you, seriously find another class now. How many patches do you need before you come to appreciate this point?

If guardian were really “in a good spot” and at the target balance position like you claim they would be nerfing the utter crap out of elementalists, revs engineers & possibly others.

No not really. That assumes they are comparing classes to each other for balance. That’s not how they balance things. It’s obvious it’s not the way you say or you would be right.