Guild Wars 2

Both these suggestions have a CC impact….forcing players to scatter from the afflicted player.

Edit: neither of these suggestions are purely “original” as WOW uses similar mechanics a lot in their higher level dungeons/raids and it is proven as a viable approach.

I think a viable 5th spot could be filled with a “haunt or possess” skill where the the opponent is turned against his own side for x seconds (auto attacking). This fits well with our “dark and scary” heritage and can be easily tuned by the devs by adjusting the time the of the haunting/possession is applicable. I trust they wouldn’t include a stupidly long cooldown though like a lot of our other skills.

Edit: if we are looking for some extra oomph in conditions you could extend the “possession” by one second for each condition on the target.

Boy did people jump on the lag comment. My comment was directed at the response provided not the issue itself.

I personally realise all the issues associated with lag and personal abilities or the lack thereof and it was not my inability that I was focusing on. I was more incensed by the fact that Josh dismissed the lag issue as though they had no responsibility at all for it tainting player experience. Any game design which ignores or overlooks a primary operating environment variable is bound to cause issues. Of course ANet can’t do a lot about net lag itself, BUT they can make it so the content is less sensitive to the negative impact of lag.

It is obvious that this game relies a lot on reaction for movement and avoidance and uses that movement mechanic to assist in the game’s balance. But there is a problem with that as the movement mechanic and requirements rely on timing which unfortunately is not uniform due to lag and possibly other factors. All I am saying is when designing content, please do not assume all timing mechanics are uniform, because the very nature of the game’s operating environment means that this is not necessarily the case. Therefore you can do something to lessen the impact of lag.

As I mentioned above, I feel that privacy is a right of us all to enjoy…..therefore it does not need justifying.

Analyzing why the OP needs privacy is not the issue….it is that his/her privacy has been compromised through game inadequacies that is…regardless of whatever consequences ensued. Focusing on those consequences will not resolve the issue.

The issue of a “stalker” or any of the other consequences of the current setup are largely just symptomatic of the underlying problem….and that is the right to privacy. That the game allows “Nair-do-wells” their opportunity to invade your privacy (in whatever fashion) is purely a consequence.

That said I believe that ANet should address the privacy issues raised by the OP in terms of the right to privacy for us all….regardless.

Lag IS something that can be addressed. STOP MAKING CONTENT AS THOUGH THERE IS NO LAG. Oceanic players have to contend with a minimum of 200ms as there are no local servers. This also applies to evasion mechanics.

Edit: This is a real head-in-the-sand response. Lag is a very real part of the environment that they are trying to market the game in. Making a product that ignores its market environment not real smart. To me the focus of the response above (1&2) is more about “don’t rock the system boat” than player enjoyment. They need to find an alternative for content tuning rather than purely reaction-time mechanics if they want to enhance the play experience for ALL their clients.

The “line of least resistance” comment was picking up on a comment in another thread about it being “too much work” to adjust minion/pet AI for all professions…..too much work there but in this thread not as important???? And I DO think it is of primary consideration given the workload/issues the devs have to address…not good business sense to do otherwise.

Edit: To me, and this is personal opinion, there is too much trying to “win the argument” approaches to these issues rather than a coordinated and coherent strategy for our profession. Puffing out the chest feathers might make us feel important but it is in our own eyes….onlookers and outside interested parties like the devs are put off by the “noise” and posturing. Very strong stances either way ARE seen as outliers in opinion analysis and lose some of their impact (sometimes wrongly) purely because they are seen as either a “fanboi” or a “hater” positions. There are some really valid points both ways here but much is lost in the noise.

Anyway, off for some more chemo….that’ll shut me up for a bit.

Again it is NOT any individual ability but the build effectiveness overall you need to consider as Bhawb eluded to. All of those attributes he mentioned are predicated on a specific build/gear combination to be that effective. And that is the way we are as a profession.

Well if what Bas is saying IS correct, what evidence is there that ANet are trimming the other profs down to our level? NONE (in fact the opposite..epidemc nerf anyone). This is just the old MMO argument “so-and-so class is OP…devs pls nerf it” and we all know where that goes.

The alternative then is to seek an increase in necro abilities to match because that argument above will get us nowhere.

EDIT: and the line of least resistance (effort) for the devs is to buff one or two of our abilities rather than nerf one or two abilities for 3 or 4 professions. So if buffing us is improbable I would say nerfing the others is even more of an improbability purely on the effort required.

Like all of our viable builds they come at a cost of other utility/damage. It is a matter of playstyle as to which build you prefer and what is important to you in selecting the “specialty”. I don’t think many would argue with Bas that there ARE work-arounds for the MM builds/AI and indeed for most of our “bugs/design foibles” but it is that the way the game should be implemented and left? I think that is the issue.

Saying that this is fine and that is fine is reinforcing poor implementation and neglect of valid gameplay issues….in considering issues to be addressed the devs will naturally gravitate to those views that offer the least requirements for them…. but this in itself is no excuse not to do something (like minion/pet AI) if we are to get a game that is working as it should be. I think some of the “incidental” and “accidental” changes that have occurred shows that this is not the case at the moment.

TLDR: No near enough is not good enough.

I wonder if the Epidemic change could be a start to the AoE nerfs by stealth (unannounced). It will certainly hurt my condition manager necro (12 sec epidemics)….and what is “Life Siphon skill: Updated skill facts” other than a filler to make the list look bigger????.

Well the necro has, in my opinion, the most engaging type of playstyle once you develop a desired build theme. eg my necro is a condition manager and all my traits/abilities/gear is selected to meet that….at the expense of other abilities/skills.

It does mean it is better that you pick a particular role/build to be effective, but when you do it is very rewarding….and we have quite a few viable builds once the realisation set in that specialisation is the key. I think many others are starting to realise that now too.

Also I think some of the robust yet informative discussions on these forums, especially the build posts, are helping…especially those based less on mere opinion and more on facts. (and would be improved greatly if only people would be more explicit in what they expect their posted builds to achieve.) /off the soapbox

Kiriakulos.1690:

Bhawb.7408:

Stop using a singular build as the example for why another class is “better” at attrition. Thieves have a single build (P/D) that is strong at attrition, every other build you will see them with is burst damage.

Attrition is, simply speaking, how well you can drag out a fight.

All of Thieves’ attrition is based in stealth, and using dodge rolls to stay alive between stealths. Every time they are outside of stealth, they don’t have access to the things that make them “attrition”-y. PD thieves work well because while in stealth, they lose conditions, gain HP, and can deal damage pretty safely, and out of stealth they have dodge rolls to prevent getting locked down.

Necromancers get fear, chill, weakness, poison, life siphoning, DS, regen, retaliation, condition removal/transfer, blinds, cripples, immobilizes, and boon stripping/corruption. All of our CC keeps us out of range when we need to be, and in range when we want to be. Our Chill/weakness/retaliation/blind/DS slow down incoming damage, punish it when it does hit, or in the case of DS, completely nullify entire bursts. Poison and boon stripping/corruption keeps the enemy from being able to heal, mitigate damage, or deal more damage. Condition removals/transfers keep us safe from conditions, and even turn enemy condition builds into a liability. And finally, constant ticks of life siphoning, while seemingly insignificant, really add up over time. If you have minions+your own life siphoning+regen+dolyak runes (easily accomplished via staff+minions+runes), you are getting 200-300 HP per second on your own, with another 100+ HP every time a minion hits. That is a very significant amount of things to drag fights out, they are very effective (ever corrupt boon a guardian/ele?), and they are accessible.

Most of the things you state we can do? We can’t actually do all of them at once or can’t do it frequently enough for it to be a big enough factor, guess who can? P/D thieves.
I don’t think the game actually has any attrition builds for any profession besides P/D thieves, that’s why we keep bringing that one up.

Bhawb just please, stop this. You’re just being a mindless fanboy by this point. A P/D is a better attrition build than anything a Necromancer can do, everyone else can accept the truth.

Agreed wholeheartedly the we need to stop with the old metadata list of skills again. It really does look “cheer-squad-ish” and is actually misleading on profession builds. Like I said before, these need to be put into a viable build context so that you can actually see what is capable of being actually built.

And to the antagonists on both sides….people are allowed to have differing opinions and should be allowed to express them without being “howled” down. People who support their opinions with facts and figures rather than mere opinion usually make much more sense.

Two elementary observations from the segment with the “3 wise men” on the DS weapon swap “accidental change”.

Firstly, the hesitation and double takes they made around actually telling the truth about the change….and for them I hope they realise the world didn’t actually end when they told us the truth that the change was “coincidental”.

Secondly, although they were able to ex-post justify the change as being consistent with “transforms”, just how “accidental” that was and just how “seat-of-the-pants” the abilities implementations are…there does NOT seem to be any overall strategy guiding meaningful and INTENDED directions….just sheer coincidence….I really hope that is not the case.

Have I had my $60 worth…most definitely and the first time through to max level was really enjoyable despite the bugs. They are tolerable once and for a short time but…..

Unfortunately, despite their best ideological intentions, I think the bean counters got the best of the devs forcing releases before they are actually ready in an attempt to maximise the sale potential of the game.

At the moment I have the feeling that they are so overwhelmed with bugs and network issues they are having trouble seeing the “forest” so to speak and this is evidenced by their total silence on so many critical issues…especially game breaking ones like the lag and culling issues.

I have just put regular playing on hold to see how/if they can emerge from the depths they are currently in…..and I don’t know that that is a guaranteed outcome.

Personal opinion only.

I found it interesting just from the different perspectives that emerged. And I might say each was valid in terms of the individual play-styles etc.

One thing that I find unsettling, and it is probably more in general on these forums than specific to this podcast (but it was evident at times), is the constant use of absolutes and superlatives in support of views/arguments/builds. I think for the intended “education and learning” aspects of the podcast, opinions etc should be qualified where possible and put into context. For example (and this is just plucked out of the air but you will all recognise what I am talking about), statements like players being able to “spam fear” should really be qualified with context details like the duration, frequency, cooldown and any obvious opportunity costs involved. I did notice that Symbolic approached this on several occasions…sort of. It would add balance to the information and allow people to make up their own minds based on that information rather than just say-so. What I have found most valuable is that the information I have gleaned has allowed me to experiment without it being a haphazard random stab in the dark….and I personally really enjoy that.
Just personal opinion….and a big thanks to those involved in the podcasting

As a request could someone on the run please video it and post on here? It would help some of us less experienced necros get a good understanding of the instances themselves and the necro approaches needed. Like I said, just a request.

Please spare a thought for us in the Antipodes (Oceania)…we have a latency of 150ms as a minimum (laws of physics) to the shores of the continent then the normal network latency on top of it….best I have ever had is 210ms…normally around 280ms.

For a game designed around reaction and avoidance it makes it difficult for remote players.

What… No sarcasm here like give us a wet noodle?

Seriously I would like to see a mace-type weapon (say a skeletal fist) with “hell” like skills like fire, haunting/paralysis, physical damage as well as a skull-like off-hand that interrupts/slows enemy cast times and provides some movement type skill. I haven’t played other professions much so I don’t know if this mix is duplicating any of them.

Edit: to clarify, the haunting could turn the opponent on his team mates for a brief period with AoE type damage.

While I also am not keen on long cast times, not everyone has a sub 60ms latency connection. For remote players (Oceanic etc) there is a inherent network infrastructure overhead sometimes as much as 180ms resulting in overall pings between 250ms and 400ms. Cast times at least give these players a fair shake….although when you add in culling we can have a kitten hard time with the reflex based fights…our dodges are “post mortem”. I don’t know what the answer is though.

“Now with culling turned off it really IS on their end. I have a system that is being constantly upgraded since about 3 years ago when I decided that doing a full rig upgrade every 5 years, like I had been doing, wasn’t worth it anymore. Games and technology that I use has changed that much that I really do need to upgrade stuff on a piecemeal basis. However the one thing I can’t upgrade (based on my location) is my internet connection. Most Oceanic’s are in the same boat. A lot of them can be on 24mb connections (ADSL2+) but out in the sticks our connection is 8mb, which should still be very good… but with an average ping of 350-450ms (for all, regardless of internet speed) outside of group events, things don’t bode so well for us.”

This is especially difficult for us when the primary avoidance mechanism is the “dodge” mechanic. As “Oceanics” (and some others too) we start that 250-400ms behind due to unavoidable network overheads. And as a “senior” player (agewise) the reflexes have difficulty making up for the inherent latency. Add culling to that and at times we are dead before the characters rend for us to see.

Edit: sorry about the quote but I had issues using the quote mechanism….probably just me.

Everytime I log into the forums I get this as shown in the attachment. All I have to then do is click on “login” and all is good. BUT what is that error all about?

It is an 80% jump if you based the % on the new base figure (926). It is a 500% jump if you base the % on the original base figure (185). I am not sure that they really intended a 500% jump over the old base and I think someone in ANet may have mixed up the base figures. What’s the odds on an “adjustment”?

Personal opinion only. Very nice appraisal. A good summary for anyone looking at the necro…especially players new to the profession. When read in conjunction with some of the posts on specialty builds it gives a great foundation to experimenting a little.

You know we have been complaining of limited availability of viable builds….I think this patch is a good start to make some of the previously less attractive builds more viable…

BUT…..

is it a prelude, just so we have at least some viability, to diminishing the condition/AoE builds in their toning down of AoE in the future?

I don’t know, and it is maybe the skeptical auditor in me, but I am always wary of “free” gifts. I hope I am wrong.

It comes down to communication again…these little “surprises” make it seem like Christmas each month, but where are we actually going? especially on the AoE front.

Mine starts up occasionally with D/L speeds anywhere between 1.5Mb/s and zero or the connection error pops up again for a bit. Patience looks like the medicine.

me too (10 chars)

Necro to his Flesh Golem…Joe kittener’s “You are so beautiful”.

Edit filter lolololol

A necro gearing up … one of the best bits of rock n roll ever

Yeah a big fan of Joe kittener…….lololol filter again

To me it is support for the rest of the team through condition management and survivability. I am not too worried about my own absolute damage but I am focused on supporting the group through weakening the mobs/enemy and applying constant condition pressure. Weakness wise as mentioned above…being tunneled and opening burst as we have few escapes…some “oh kitten” abilities but limited.

Edit: weaknesses.

Sorry..overlooked the mention of crystals. The other was just an example…my focus is not damage but utility using condition management. I was not criticizing in any way as I think your guide is exactly the type of “documentation” needed to help the likes of me along.

Don’t overlook Quality Tuning Crystals…they add 5% of your toughness and 3% oif your vitality as condition damage. And they are cheap too (around 45c each on my server so 100 will only cost about 45 silver…thats 50hrs of buffs)

Also the cooldown reduction traits (all a 20% reduction) effectively mean a 20% kick to whatever relevant conditions you apply because they are available 20% more of the time. For example the 20% reduction in corruption skills gives you BiP every 24 secs AND EPIDEMIC every 12 secs. This is awesome for a condition build especially if you synergise your epidemics with team application of conditions as well. If your group has a heap of conds up on a boss, epidemic will literally melt any adds that appear.

Good point Pirhana…
Pizza and
QualityTuning Crystals. (Gain condition damage = 5% toughness AND gain condition damage = 3% vitality) and these are really cheap too.

I have NOT min/maxed the condition aspects as much as concentrate on the attrition (survivability AND constant pressure and a lot of fun to play).

I run 6/6 Undead runes. I also have traited for 20% reductions in wells cd’s, staff skills cd’s and corruption skills cd’s (effectively a 20% increase in their damage/effects as they are available 20% more plus epidemic is available every 12 secs with BiP every 24…a good synergy). On the jewelery I use Crest of the Rabid. Gear is mainly Carrion stuff. Unbuffed I have 27K health, 2700armour, 1600 toughness, 1100 cond damage, 2600 attack and in/out of DS a lot.

Like I said not the max but a great support build and a lot of fun to play…not much time for auto attack.

I have tried to get to a really robust attrition support mode.

I run Carrion gear mostly (6/6 Superior Rune of the Undead) with soldier’s jewelery (crest of the rabid)….27K HP. Its a bit of a “hyperactive” type build with staff sceptre/dagger (yeah silly for a sick old fella)….hardly ever get to auto attack at all.

I have traited for 20% reduction in staff cd’s, a 20% reduction in corruption skills CDs and 20% reduction in wells CDs. That means every 12 secs I can spread the love with epidemic, every 24 secs have BiP and wells at 36 secs. Staff skills regenerate really quickly (4.75, 16, 20, 32) so I don’t blow all CDs at once…half then epidemic then the other half then epidemic. Add a couple of consumables to boost conditions/duration. Jump in and out of DS often and use plague when I can.

It may not fit a “classic” role like the Nemesis great tank build but I can tell you I keep them busy having to dispell while at the same time weakening them for the others. I am not too worried about my own level of damage as long as I can enhance the team as a whole.

Long way of saying Nemesis build is more for the team than individual damage bragging rights. That being said, the rest of the team look that much better for the support given. And that is a choice. I don’t think any one build can be all things especially as I don’t think we have been designed to be able to fill all roles. Its a matter of choosing your role and fitting it out as best you can.

I am not too worried about the “pure” theory crafting for myself as I enjoy the role I have created for myself…and that’s important for us all…enjoy what we do.

Bhawb.7408:

We have already done one all necro run, we’ll be doing more.

How did it go? Did anyone get a vid? …. would love to see it.

I am probably going to earn an infraction here….well i have had them for much less I can tell you.

In the past I have been highly critical of the Blizz devs (WoW and D3) in their forums about communication inadequacies similar to what the ANet devs are demonstrating not only on this topic but on many others including bugs. Lately, (WoW especially), I have been greatly impressed with their openness and straight talking about developments for characters and in game adjustments. I invite the GW2 devs to have a look at the Blizz forums/blogs/tweets and see for themselves how it really does work.

Most players in GW2 (I think the overwhelming majority), want the best for the game in the same vein as the devs. The devs should be confident enough to be honest in their communications with players. Of course there will be times where the players disagree with what the devs are doing, but the game’s design is not a democracy and the devs can tilt it whichever way they like. What I am saying is, by adopting a similar approach with honest, open communication, they will take many more players with them as the players a) understand the devs direction; b) can trust the devs statements thru proven delivery of what is promised; c) avoid the ‘x-files" syndrome (that really was insulting and shows a culture of disrespect for the players’ opinions) which has actually been created by ANet’s communication issues; and d) most will cooperate with the implementation of changes.

I also fail to see why communications seem to avoid mentioning the elephants in the room, like their desire that we use the TP more proactively but appropriately…….for goodness sake “out it”…we are not “phobic” to honesty…we do understand business principles..they are not “dirty words”.

It is essential though that communications be honest…no deception through ambiguities, deception through omission or half truths. With 2+ million players, spin and rhetoric will be quickly exposed as exactly that ( as is currently the case). It might seem clever in the devs meeting room BUT it will be quickly exposed in the “wild” and will only alienate the client base.

/stating the obvious off…but it seems it has to be said
/crusade off

There is a huge gap between player perception through actual experiences and the dev statements. I am not saying which, if either, is right but that gap must close otherwise this game will hemorrhage players while the devs remain (publicly) in denial. Either way the gap must close. Edit: It will take a lot more than rhetoric and spin to achieve that. Most players are becoming very astute in discerning spin and rhetoric for them to sneak by instead of real changes.

Anecdotally, DR will not stop bots … it may thin out a few of the less committed bots but not all … it does is chase real (but maybe more casual) players away leaving a higher concentration of more resilient bots. Just a personal opinion.

I don’t know how CJ’s comment 3 hrs ago
“We’ve completed verifying every update from the november release, and there were zero changes to anything what so ever that would have negatively affected loot in any way/shape/form.”
reconciles to the latest patch notes from MK 3 days ago
“General
Adjusted Orr Undead loot drops”

I read from CJ’s post that the loot drops are “working as intended”.

It makes you wonder why he limited it to the November patch onwards when many posters contend that it was that patch that pushed the drop rates over the precipice.

Any analysis undertaken by ANet will be using those drop rates/loot tables etc as the baseline and it may well be true that the poltergeists have not got into the drop rates since that baseline was set…easy conclusion. The hard thing to look at is the baseline probably set in November.

Like I said “working as intended”.

In the longer term honesty and openness in communication and game design avoids the “X-Files syndrome”.

Rhysati.4932:

Basically, almost everyone I’ve seen that says they liked how Orr was before is a Guardian or Warrior with the usual overpowered builds who just faceroll through everything the game has.

The rest of us are playing the other classes in the game who have a hard enough time as it is and were struggling with massive amounts of frustration in Orr. Personally, I’m actually enjoying the zones now, whereas before I simply refused to go in them. I had resigned myself to waiting to complete those maps until I absolutely had to(and could get a group of guildies to go with). Now, I’m enjoying myself.

+1

I wonder if we did poll here of the comments vs the profession would it show up any real trends. I think (totally anecdotal opinion) that those commenting that Orr is now too easy fit into one or two “blessed” professions in terms of current combat effectiveness….ie it is a class balance issue rather than a scenario design issue.

My issues have been the randomness of the procs of the sigil of geomancy on actual mobs….especially in Orr.

I am quite enjoying it now….they did a good job on the changes in my view. Just hope the rest of the bugs/changes get the same attention.

To me the game is improving slowly.

That in itself is not the issue for me. It is the honesty, integrity and openness of the communication from the devs and ANet generally that has overhyped various aspects of the game and led/misled to player disappointment. They seem to be improving and I will hold back any decision on getting any expansion to see just how far they reform their communication culture.

I have also noticed this with the sigils that are supposed to proc on weapon swap in combat….seems very random.

@Elthurien
At my age the reflexes are maybe not quite as sharp as yours so you may be right that it is me as a player that is a significant part of the problem. That said, my problems are only magnified by game design requiring swift avoidance actions and low latencies. Obviously your faster reflexes are offsetting your latency (mine is about the same) and even as a caffeine junky I can’t get the reflexes to compensate enough. So while the latency is not enough in itself, it is something that is changeable (via game design)…my reflexes are not.

As the title says…Champ Abom event at Shadowfein Waypoint on the Maguuma server. Last 4 times with many hours between fights (even an overnight break) he just dies (after a LONG fight) and no loot at all (not even one of those highly prized perforated bones) even though every time I have gold medal award for fight.

Edit: spelling
Edit: 5 times

As I mentioned in another thread it is awfully hard to dodge incoming stuff fast enough when you have a high ping connection (Oceanic players can’t avoid high pings). I just wish they would consider ALL their player base when designing stuff…especially when they WON’T give us an Oceanic server with reasonable latencies.

Hard to dodge red circles to avoid damage with high ping connection (yes Oceanic player…we can’t avoid high pings).

Ahhh…thanks for that. It is good to see good avoidance play being “rewarded” with proper damage reduction.

Did they just apply DR to many abilities for other professions?

For example the ones that have “The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.”

In my ignorance I am not quite sure what that means. To me it looks like the beginning of AoE adjustments but starting the focus on encouraging avoidance rather than only the damage????