Guild Wars 2

The granddaughter was trying to make a character and the names she came up with were always taken. Anyway she got the shirts and just typed in Name Invalid and it accepted…lol.

Lets have another look at the example above.
“Weakness spam, which is very crucial against bunkers and low crit chance builds(makes all regular hits deal 50% less damage) and makes their endurance come back 50% slower”

We already have our utility slots taken with Spectral walk, plague signet and one of the wells (doesn’t matter which for this argument). The only way we can add weakness to that is through the utilities again, Signet of Spite and Corrosive Cloud but that means dropping the well (so no protection at all now) or our plague signet (hmmm condition transfer gone) or spectral walk (well we lose our spectrals entering DS anyway). We could use dagger5 but the build is using war horn so no go there or we can use Plague 3 on a 180 sec cooldown. So “spamming weakness” if it can even be done at all comes at a terrible utility cost or awful cooldown. Needless to say these changes to “spam” weakness would mean a respec of traits as you now have no wells so the two wells traits would need changing as well.

Again it looks good on the list but try and make it work in a viable build. The list above is very deceptive in this regard.

All I am trying to say is we need to take any list of our max abilities as just that…a list of the possibles. People keep assuming the list can be turned into a viable build with a plethora of the listed abilities. It usually cannot. As I said the abilities are usually EITHER this one /OR that one….not a string of them.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Oldbugga.7029:

Now how many of those “excellent” abilities can you fit into any one build? I would be surprised if it is more than 2 or 3. This is the same old problem….looking at the raw metadata on the descriptions of abilities (and it looks great BUT most are either/or choices…not and) instead of viable builds, cooldowns and durations. I started a thread pleading, yes pleading with the devs to show us a viable build that matches their vision of the profession…sound of crickets was the dev response.

All but 1. You have to choose between Spectral Wall and one of the wells.

I have run a full support build and it is very effective.

I also have a good support necro..wells/conditions build…but that is it…….if I try and add another ability I lose a lot of the facility in the build….and when you trait for a max ability it is either an elite on a ridiculous cooldown or you sacrifice much more from a viable build than you gain.

From the example above, the 9 sec protection (which has used up a trait and assumes the wells protection bit will not be concurrent at any time and all 3 utility slots are wells) also comes down 3 secs because you lost a well…..but you also have the plague signet…so there goes another 3 seconds and another well…that means you are down to a 3 sec protection for a cost of a trait and a well cooldown of 40 secs…..but that’s not all…you have lost the abilities on 2 of the wells …and you still do not have Epidemic nor any other utility slots……LISTS DO NOT MAKE BUILDS….it starts to fall apart when you actually try and build a character with all these wonderful abilities….it can’t be done….well at least the devs won’t show us how to do it to match their stated vision of the necro.

The same can be done with many professions…just list all the goodies and there…..it doesn’t work and I wish people (especially the devs) would stop doing it because it shows a bit about what is the understanding of character building and trait synergy.

And with the structure of our abilities and trait trees it seems it is meant not to work…many abilities are mutually exclusive to many others and/or scattered over conflicting/unrelated trait lines.

That is our (well mine at any rate) main beef….the synergy of our abilities and the trait trees is woeful and seems almost intentionally broken.

Now how many of those “excellent” abilities can you fit into any one build? I would be surprised if it is more than 2 or 3. This is the same old problem….looking at the raw metadata on the descriptions of abilities (and it looks great BUT most are either/or choices…not and) instead of viable builds, cooldowns and durations. I started a thread pleading, yes pleading with the devs to show us a viable build that matches their vision of the profession…sound of crickets was the dev response.

The problem with the necro is synergy….that the way the trait trees are structured, a lot of those abilities listed are mutually exclusive…..ie you can have one OR the other, not both or a meaningful combination.

We have been trying to get the devs to focus on actual builds so they will stop doing just this and only looking at the misleading overall metadata list of abilities which CANNOT be joined in any meaningful way into viable builds other than a couple of very situational narrow roles.

Yes a very merry Christmas to all….especially the ANet staff who have worked so hard. Cheers.

I may have a solution to the devs dilemma with this challenge. We can change the vision simply by adding the word MAY or OR at strategic places in that vision with very occasional others…..

Lets have a go:

“Necro

The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher.

While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they MAY have a ways to win attrition fights.

They MAY access to poison on multiple weapons, OR
they MAY BE able to combine condition damage with raw damage, OR
they MAY CHOSE have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. OR
Necomancers MAY have multiple movement disabling abilities, WHICH MIGHT allow them to chase down enemies who are low on health."

There…that looks more like thew necro I CAN BUILD. Bit lame isn’t it. Notice most are mutually exclusive because of the deliberate trait tree hotch potch.

I wish they would just look at the class from a players perspective.

I wouldn’t hold your breath for any response at all…they are stonewalling hoping it will all go away.

We compile a list of bugs as asked to and we get nothing from Anet.
We offer fixes and suggestions to fix issues and we get nothing Anet.
We whine and complain and we get (obviously) nothing from Anet.
We actually plead for help (this thread) and we get nothing from Anet.

The silence on this issue is as I expected because there is no such viable build. I was trying to get them to focus on an actual build rather than a metadata list of abilities which cannot be synchronised or achieved. The tools they have given us to meet the vision of the necro fall far short of what is needed. Lists of abilities they keep trotting out are not a build and they don’t realize (or intentionally chose to ignore) that. We cannot achieve anything like their vision with the current trait structures and skill sets.

I absolutely fail to see how they can just ignore this and ignore us as players who only want the best possible outcome for the game.

I have shelved my necro and the game until something changes. I could continue to play in the same mini-viable narrow support role but that is just plain boring and not consistent with their stated vision of allowing us freedom to chose…we can chose but only for inferior outcomes.

My reason for shelving the game is more the arrogant neglect of us as paying customers…typical of the “god syndrome” usually evident in closed shop IT provider environments. And as an ex-systems analyst and systems auditor I have seen it many times.

I won’t now be buying the 4 or 5 copies of this game as gifts for my teenage grandkids purely because of this sort of treatment…I do not want to be responsible for exposing them to such blatant abuse of the provider/customer pact that is entered into when you buy this game. And I will not hesitate to relate this treatment to anyone who asks me about Anet products. (sheesh now I have to find another gift for them…and that’s hard to do for teenagers)

I sincerely hope that Anet get their act together on this…..it may be internally seen as being tough and in control but it is misguided. All it is doing is alienating their paying customers. And it is a downward spiral unless they change it.

The thing that gets me is not the bugs etc, they are a symptom of the underlying issue which does get me. That is the total lack of concern for their paying necro customers. It can only be from contempt because you would not in all honesty treat valued clients like they treat necros. Even if they actually stated that all is as intended it would be better than the total silence about our profession and its issues. Indifference to any group has the greatest impact on morale and player commitment.

Seeing many other professions have had responses to issues arising from the patch and all we hear is the sound of “crickets chirping” I have my concerns about getting a meaningful response to this plea…and that is what it is…an honest plea for their guidance to meet their vision.

Glad you enjoy it….it is the neglect and contempt that is pushing me away. I could “get by” with the hotch potch necro as it is but ANet’s treatment of the necro community is intolerable.

Agreed with 2 for exactly the same reason as yourself. I will keep an eye on changes they make but I doubt they will ever recover the “magic” we all wanted the necro to be. We have been ignored and treated with contempt for too long.

Hmmmm…auditor’s nose twitching now…..baited a hostile response from staunch necro supporters (in the past anyway)…..derailed what was a good thread about our abilities……leaves in a huff with the what seems like some sort of “official” sign off (“better luck next time necro community”) as though……no surely not….couldn’t be……who is he?

Dropped the game entirely till something changes…not interested in any other profession (the granddaughter had a run as a warrior…only to level 15…but what a faceroll…100 blades or whatever…the “I win” button).

I still can’t reconcile what ANet say they want the necro to be and the stuff they are dishing up in patches. Not that I am in the same league as the above players but I am just as passionate about the profession. I too have shelved the game till something changes to make the rhetoric fit the actuality of the necro. I actually have a thread going pleading, yes pleading for help from ANet to show me how to meet their vision of the necro.

@Fazzi I don’t think that the issue you raised fits with this thread…please don’t raise peripheral issues here…there are plenty of other threads or make another one.

I am trying to keep this thread as plain and simple as it can be without “noise”. We NEED help from ANet to show us how to achieve their vision of the necro.

I really don’t want this thread to degenerate into a bashing exercise, as frustrated and disappointed as we may be.

It is a genuine appeal for help in meeting their vision for the profession.

Please don’t derail the thread. It is about asking ANet for assistance in matching the vision they have for the profession with(a) viable build(s).

I too use staff scepter/dagger and wells which is based around conditions and casting. Good for a very limited roles but surpassed by other classes in what we can do. I enjoy the playstyle but the limitations of viable builds do place us in a very limited range of roles which can make it a bit boring after a while. We have a lot of potential but need some work on our traits and abilities to achieve them. Many of our traits for particular builds are scattered over non-synergistic trait lines and some of the compulsory traits (reanimator I am looking at you) are lame at best compared to the other professions. Although the ANet vision for the necro looks impressive it is not achievable (IMO) at the moment….and I have asked the devs for help in doing that….time will see if we get any assistance in matching their vision with viable builds.

The devs must have builds they use for testing and if they have formed the opinion that we are fine (capable of fulfilling that vision) and should just learn how to use DS then I fail to understand why we haven’t found that same character construction. To meet their expectations of what we are capable of we need some guidance so we are not just pigeon-holed into roles better filled by other professions in the first place.

Please don’t turn this thread into another whinefest. I really would like to see how the devs envisage a necro working in practice rather than just relying on the PR blurbs. If we all are missing the mark by so much then we NEED to be shown how it should be done because nothing I can conceivably build looks anything like their vision.

More like they actually believe their own PR spin (ability metadata only and not how to implement it)….Blizz often falls for this too. Spin =/= implementation…..snowball fights =/= bug fixes…….balloons =/= reasonable build options…..wintersday…lol …summer here 38c.

Here is the ANet view of the necro:

“Necro

The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health."

Looks impressive doesn’t it?

IN THE SPIRIT OF EDUCATING THE PLAYERS (not unreasonable thing to ask for any software package) in what is a complex profession, could the devs please show us a build that incorporates at least a good part of that vision an a meaningful way. I keep running in to the either/or choices that leave me only one, at most two, of those aspirations being fulfilled and leaving me with a very narrow pidgeon-holed outcome.
Please avoid using broken traits and abilities like we have to.

The ANet quote about the necro abilities is misleading as it has fallen for the “list all abilities” approach rather than what is possible in viable builds. While we can possibly achieve some of those abilities individually we can only ever have two or three available to any one viable build (indeed many are contained in our elites so only one per build there). This is largely because of the buggered trait line structures and
mandatory useless traits like reanimator.

edit: Actually I am starting to think that the devs are only looking at the abilities list and not how we can actually use those abilities realistically. To me they are either “in denial” about the necro issues, relying on the list itself as some form of justification of “profession fineness”, or they just plain do not understand how the necro builds work in reality. Probably a combination of both.

+1 just move it so it is not a compulsory trait…we have few enough traits we want to use without being forced to use a useless one.

Love the free style of Open World and DE’s (including DE chains) where I can opt in and out at will.

Hate dungeons and linear play.

That we are in the minority is an assumption that is sometimes used to discount valid arguments. Whether we are or not is largely immaterial as we usually are relatively representative of the populous as a whole. Whenever I see someone using that philosophy to put down an issue or idea I immediately consider they have lost the argument…you know the old schoolyard debating tactic of discrediting or demeaning the messenger rather than addressing the issue.

GW2 is very CPU intensive rather than GPU intensive. A 920 is more than OK and when they optimise the game more to rely more on GPU hardware your GPU will get more of a workout. My O/C 7850 exhibits the same performance cycle as your 7950. My CPU is a C2Q9550s and is about 70-75% utilised the whole time.

RESOLVED…it was a DNS issue. Changed the DNS from the ISP’s to an open DNS server. Thanx

This is the first time I have enough feedback to even try and isolate it. Thnx….will approach DNS mob to see.

permanently allowed through NOSCRIPT and it happens in IE as well. And I am running Firefox 18 beta at the moment but it makes no difference which version. I have tried all the “usual” things and am starting to think it is a DNS issue especially after the DNS debacle with D3 at the moment. By the way I am an Oceanic player and we seem to get the hairy network issues with most game stuff.

Could be a DNS issue as none of the “GUILDWARS2.NCSOFT.COM/” links work at all for me. The only way I get to them is through this site GUILDWARS2.COM/EN…….anything with NCSOFT just gets the server not found error.

Firefox 16/17 and IE 9/10 whether just clicking on the link or manually pasting the url into the address line.

Well where would you put it? especially that this is the umteenth time.

All of the above and forgive me if it has already been mentioed but my Flesh Golem’s charge sometimes seems rediculous in the distance he overshoots the target. He generally then takes an age (with all the terrain/pathingf issues mentioned) to return to the fight…well that’s if he isn’t set upon by some other mob he has agro’d in that overshoot.

Good news for us…well at least it is a start…ty anet.

Ever since the game released every email that comes from NCSoft has broken links in it…server not found errors. I have reported it numerous times and even got a mail asking for details which I happily provided. The latest one is the Wintersday email….every link in it comes up with error coded 404.

Besides our “soloability” and stuff and besides our bugs it is truly an engaging profession that really does reward good play rather than just be a “mob-faceroll” or “whach-a-mole” button presser. I am just a scrub but I really love the play style of the necro…if I go badly it is usually my own fault but if I do well I can feel the reward for good play.

Attended/Looted

Love the game….the fact that many are posting with probs to me indicates most actually care and want issues addressed because they want to continue playing.

People are entitled to voice their opinion about the limited viability of the class and it is noticeable that there is a “cheer squad” seemingly trying to stop that happening.

It is true that everything IS NOT BROKEN but it is equally true that everything IS NOT RIGHT. We are pigeonholed into a narrow selection of builds and roles at the moment. These seem fine but outside of them we are pretty ordinary. While we have access to some great abilities, and that list makes us look fine, it is misleading because we can not meld more than 2 or 3 into any one viable build.

Stop with the all or nothing postures either way and we may actually get somewhere with the devs.

I sold all my chests…for a pittance…..refuse to buy keys as I have had none drop since about a month into the game.

I love the Lettucemode list. People do this all the time and it does look impressive. BUT how many of those can you fit into any one build? Generally we have to adopt many “meh” traits just to get to one of the better ones. I doubt any ONE viable build could get two or even three of those listed abilities. Like I said the list IS impressive but is misleading when you look at what is actually doable at the moment…and that lack of synergy is what many have been complaining about.

It is a long interview but worth the time I reckon. AoE stuff is around 12.35min into interview.

What Softspoken said. You will need to swap weapons frequently as cooldowns tic to maintain condition application and use death shroud often (not till it expires).

I am a bit of scrub but I run a support necro based on conditions and use epidemic as a pseudo interrupt forcing enemies to dispel conditions or be melted. Keep in mind epidemic cooldown is about half of the enemy condition removal cd’s so it will bite them hard – including those close enough but avoiding your marks (I reckon it may be further nerfed maybe with a longer cooldown…hope not).

My build is 0/20/30/20/0 with staff scepter/dagger (sigil of geomancy for bleeds) and full carrion gear (6/6 superior rune of the undead). Trait choices are {curses – weakened shroud and focused rituals}, {Death Magic – greater marks, ritual of protection and with a minion, flesh of the master or without a minion, death shiver} and {blood magic – bloodthirst and ritual mastery}. Utility slots are 6- consume conditions, 7 – epidemic (or spectral walk for single fights), 8- Well of Corruption, 9 – Well of Suffering, elite – flesh golem if soloing stuff or plague.

Lay down your marks with the staff, swap weapons to scepter/dagger, scepter 1,2,3, dagger 4,5, epidemic, swap weapons to staff, staff2,1 ,1, well of corruption, well of suffering, epidemic…then Death shroud and DS4,1,1 exit DS….rinse and repeat. Use the elite (charge or plague when opportune).

If you like the support role you may like this sort of approach. Not for everyone and my build may not be the best but I like how it plays at the moment and its playstyle can be a bit hectic at times…it is not a lazy build.

Edit: This is also a solid build with all stats between 1450 and 1550 and a health pool of 24.5K….would be better if I got all exotic stuff but at the moment most is still rare (except weapons).

Time will tell….and I did say I could well be wrong…I really hope I am. If you look around these forums you can see where the devs have departed from stated paths/goals on other issues (I don’t need to call them out), and they may well have been justified too. My concern is the attractiveness of a quick fix without the work needed to balance it…that is all.

Edit: As an ex-systems auditor and auditor I probably have a pretty skeptical view (developed over quite a few years) of dev aspirational proclamations vs delivered outcomes in the “heat-of-battle” environments.

I watched it a couple of times on that bit and I just get the feeling it is a bit more expansive than just the “PvP rez bit”…..could be entirely wrong but the antennae are twitching.

In looking to address the issue quickly….nerfing AoE’s is the quick and dirty, easy way. And that is my concern…that they might just take that path as the least line of resistance and leave us without corresponding balance/build buffs and options.

I just watched the “interview” with the ANet’s PvP man (sorry forgot his name…am getting older) and he was discussing with some high level players issues around PvP and some PVE.

He clearly stated that they (devs) were concerned at the current levels/impacts of AoE which would indicate incoming nerfs to AoE abilities sooner rather than later.

Given AoE forms the basis of most of our very few viable builds, and the fact that they have already nerfed Epidemic, I am concerned that they will further gut one of our pitifully few potent tools in the already limited builds we can make.

If our AoE is nerfed then it would seem reasonable that there would have to be balancing, corresponding buffs to make up for it. I can’t imagine the issues around build viability that this could trigger……..I hope they don’t tinker with it too much.

Thnx…..glad I didn’t jump the gun.

As the title says what is the max duration stack on Aegis? I have seen many players running around Cursed Shore with Aegis “blocking next incoming attack” with durations ranging up to 24 hrs. I haven’t reported them simply because I was unsure of the max duration…but this seems really extreme.