Guild Wars 2

I think Bhawb in a round about way with his tongue-in-cheek remark about making the reanimator actually usefull was closer to the mark than it appears.

MANY of our traits do not sit well with the meta of our class and this is one in particular. If you apply the simple test “how does this trait/skill help the necro meet its meta intent” then the answer is sadly lacking in many cases. A simple analysis of all our traits using this elementary analysis will show up our plethora of traits/skills that do not advance our character to meet the meta. And we seem to be getting further from a consistent meta with constant kneejerk changes that seem based on immediate “thought bubbles” without the overall meta being considered.

Agree that the OP is a good post.

Just 2 things which may be related.

Firstly designing with dodge/reaction-time-based-avoidance being of such a critical importance in gameplay is designing in an inherent risk which neither the player nor ANet have control over……and that is network latency……. especially for non-Euro/USA players where mandatory network connections alone add considerable latencies which CANNOT be overcome without local servers.

Secondly, the AOE issues raised and the proposed solutions seems more about personal experiences/inconvenience rather an overall view of the meta game framework. I feel the AOE issue and whewre it fits in the game meta is far more complex than the above suggested improvements. The suggestions would require a LOT of balancing and single target compensations which would require further balancing etc etc for the AOE centric builds to remain viable. Take for example the necro….it would almost mean a total redesign of their meta and implementation strategies to just keep them viable….not top of the tree…just viable…and that process will be expensive in terms of development time and resources. Although I like some of the suggestions I sincerely hope the devs DONT adopt them without seriously looking at the AOE centric classes meta and overall balance.

Decrypter.1785:

Oldbugga.7029:

Again this is a bandaid for a game engine that can’t handle its intended function…multi player content. What we need is the game engine updated to actually do its intended job rather than bodge fixes to hide the shortcomings in the current one. It amazes me that the game was released on an engine that was obviously, even from beta, not up to the job…especially for the touted highlight of the game…freestyle WvW and large PvP.

Sorry but the game runs decent so i disagree if you want to run max get a decent PC , Blaming the game when you prolly running a p4 , 512mb ram and On board graphics is youre problem lol :P

Very very judgemental and totally wrong little man. I build PCs as a hobby and mine is quite up to date (quad core 8 gig ram, AMD 7850 OC with 2g). Please keep your half kitten assumptions to yourself…it just makes you look silly.

Obviously you don’t know a lot about client/server architectures/systems and the sharing of the load between the user and the server. User side is fine..get 40-60fps…but it sits there waiting for the server to respond like a slide show and rubberbanding…it is the server capability where we are having the issues…it just can’t handle the load it is intended to handle..and that is both hardware and software related.

Again this is a bandaid for a game engine that can’t handle its intended function…multi player content. What we need is the game engine updated to actually do its intended job rather than bodge fixes to hide the shortcomings in the current one. It amazes me that the game was released on an engine that was obviously, even from beta, not up to the job…especially for the touted highlight of the game…freestyle WvW and large PvP.

People NEED a self justification to log in and play…some turn to farming as the driver reason…others prefer fractals, others dynamic events, others want better gear, others want achievements etc etc. Now what makes us WANT to play is the driver. ANet are inadvertantly squashing some of the driving reasons people play…whether by design or accident is up for debate but they need to strike a balance at accommodating what drives different people to play the game…not knee jerk react to isolated or very specific aberations or to force people one way or the other without leaving that driver there for those who NEED it.

gurugeorge.9857:

Jeez, what a bunch of pathetic whining. Here you all are, enjoying the miracle of online internet gaming in a beautiful virtual world designed with love and attention, and a fun, frenetic combat system, and all you can do is whinge and whine about how this little thing or that little thing isn’t to your taste.

Servants! I can’t sleep, there’s a pea under my mattress!!!

Fun….yes …..when it works and the abilities don’t bug out…frenetic…not if there is more than a dozen players….the skill lag turns it into a slide show.

Continue with mediocrity if you like but don’t condemn us to it.

L.A.G.

For a game which primarily relies on damage avoidance for mitigation through reaction/dodges, any lag is critical in your success or otherwise, especially for those in the Oceanic/Asia zones we have a minimum of 150-180 ms latency purely because of the distance.

The other side of this is the skill lag caused by the game engine not being able to handle its intended workload. I mean for a game which is primarily a multi player genre to have a game engine that cannot cope even with a moderate component of the multi bit is pretty poor.

Despite what is said above about our relative effectiveness etc…and I am sure they can all support what they say…the Necromancer is fun to play…you have to work at it….but it is FUN to play.

I will just add one comment about the last two posts.

Communication is a two way street. If the devs want open, honest, considered communication then it must also flow in reverse. Too often we have seen “deception” and half truths by omission and design from the devs in the past and at times the neglect of player concerns get by them only shows contempt for their paying customers.

What goes round comes round. And i agree it is time for a quantum shift in attitude…both ways.

Thanks Nikkle….I am pleased it was not a stealth exclusion……that’ll teach me to jump to conclusions (well it did fit with form I suppose).

And it looks like poison is also broken by itself as well…….hmmmmm. Acknowledged by devs in the post below. So it is not only the marks/wells it is also the individual components/conditions within them….sheesh.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Poison-doesn-t-work-at-all/page/2

Edit: Looked at the thread again and it looks like it might be fixed.

“Terror: Reduced the damage by 17%. Fixed a bug so this trait now checks for the torment condition as well.”

I don’t know if it has been discussed yet but what exactly does that second sentence actually mean. Checks for torment and then does what???? It looks like another bit of ANet doublespeak/halftruth/obfuscation. We need some clarification on it.

Does it mean that these conditions are now mutually exclusive….in addition to the fear nerf? That really does seem a bit excessive…but in line with the incomprehensible direction this class is now taking with the counterintuitive changes to our survivability…all in the name of ???…..well I can’t work that out….neither can they it seems.

Edit: spelling

Edit2: If the conditions ARE mutually exclusive now due to that check then the fire/fear builds are now also obsolete…they will not work as before. I have a sneaking suspicion this is intended but stealthed through without telling us the implications of the check. We need someone with better skills than me to test this.

Deltana.9082:

The Necromancer really needs a nerf. I think it will be done. But when ? No one can today beat a condition necro.
A.net has maybe now to react about this issue!…

Statements like this will NOT encourage ANet to spend thousands of dollars changing the necro meta. You need more than just personal opinion. I am not having a go at your opinion, BUT I am saying if you want your opinion to carry any weight in swaying the devs then you will need to provide some substantial proof/evidence that is more than just personal opinion.

And keep in mind that they might actually intend to “rotate” profressions around the top damage, play styles. Just because there has been a shift in the relative status of some professions, doesn’t necessarily mean it is not intentional or an error on their behalf. I would tend to believe it may be intentional in this case given our previous state/ranking.

I think too many other profession players have their preset counters to necros that are now obsolete or are not quite as effective as they were (thankfully). It really is a matter of modifying the anti-necro strategies by the other professions and NOT to assign the abilities themselve into the mediocre cauldron we were. As Bhawb said above it is EASILY avoided….do so. Posts like these are more the “noise” that comes with people needing to change preset ways rather than a valid analysis of the change itself.

There is a lot of emotional responses in this thread. I would like to address just one of those to see where it is really coming from. This is not a personal attack on the poster…it is an analysis of his statements.

Ralathar.7236:

The reason they are viewed as OP atm is because they are.

Why? Because you say they are? There are obviously a lot of people here that disagree with you and offer a lot more evidence to support their case.

They got buffed across the board last patch and with the extra free CC, extra condition damage, Spectral Wall change, wells all got lesser CD’s, Death shroud no longer removes spectral effects, Unholy Feast now boon strips, got increased life force gains, had death shroud buffed, etc.

Keep in mind the devs implemented these changes AND the necros didn’t just pluck them out of the air. And why do you think the devs decided to implement these buffs to the necros? I think they have a lot more data up their sleeves concerning profession balance and viabilities than one person’s potentially lopsided experiences. I doubt they put their hands into the buff lucky-dip barrel. I would tend to back the devs judgement here than what appears to be a disgruntled player.

With such a massive spike in Necromancer power it’s not surprising that it was overdone in some ways. Especially since necros were already known by the experienced to be way better than the general opinion on them was.

This just does not make sense and is purely annecdotal at best. The evidence is in the representation of the professions in all styles of play….not some fabricated “factoid” created to support a particular opinion with emotive language ("massive???).

In WvW they were already being increasingly used as a core component in groups for example. Now they are a core component of groups you cannot ignore and be competitive without.

And exactly what is wrong with necros having a little sunshine at last? We were second lowest on the population stakes (and only marginally above the lowest….older data but all that is publicly available).You seem to be hinting that other classes are not “entitled” to some “following” because they might actually now prove useful in particular circumstances. All scenarios will prove beneficial for one or more professions at times.

Summary: A lot of personal opinion built on annecdotal assumptions that do not stand scrutiny or are prejudice in their own way against the necro class.

Blood Magic Master trait level…both aimed at survivability thru mobility…a real weakness at the moment
“Get me out of here”
“When you recover/fight back from being downed you gain 33% movement speed increase for 4 secs”.
or

“Where am I?”
When you recover/fight back from being downed you are teleported a distance of 600 in a random direction"

Again some good theory crafting Nemesis with an elegant solution. My only concern is that the complexity/subtleties may be difficult to grasp for the less attuned players (like me)….but I suppose that is the nature of our profession and its roles.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Oldbugga.7029:

I have concerns about the nerfing/gating of base abilities individually to prevent outlier combos….if condition A and condition B are too powerful together then put them on a common/shared cooldown…..do NOT nerf them individually nor make them individually difficult to use.
(posted in another thread by mistake).

So you’re saying to fix the problem by causing both Terror and Dhuumfire to proc Dhuumfire’s internal cooldown? Foes can be either burning or take Terror damage but not both at the same time?

NO. A shared cooldown means if one ability is on cooldown, say fear, then fire can’t proc til the fear duration is over and vice versa. It means you get one or the other at any one time..but you can’t get both at once….like your further post above said.

This may not be the answer but nerfing/restricting the base abilities will just get us back to where we were before….that is the approach that has been used in the past and it left a lot of our abilities very ordinary…(UNLESS you actually used the wierd combos to just get on par with other classes).

The answer lies in addressing the combination itself…not the individual abilities when used standalone.

Edit: lol filter….“proc” followed by “until”..lol

Edit 2: Likewise with making them both GM traits. The answer is not to limit us to one or the other in any one build by making them both GMs but to limit them being USED together. Having both in a build would then not lead to OP outcomes from their combination.

I have concerns about the nerfing/gating of base abilities individually to prevent outlier combos….if condition A and condition B are too powerful together then put them on a common/shared cooldown…..do NOT nerf them individually nor make them individually difficult to use.
(posted in another thread by mistake).

I have concerns about the nerfing/gating of base abilities individually to prevent outlier combos….if condition A and condition B are too powerful together then put them on a common/shared cooldown…..do NOT nerf them individually nor make them individually difficult to use.

Fully agree Bhawb and that is exactly the approach I have been pleading with the devs to take all along…..tone down the unusual combos that are OP…not the base abilities themselves because they are individually NOT OP. And in no way are we OP outside of those very few outlier combinations….like you said we actually need a bit of hand up in several aspects of our gameplay.

Are Necros OP…the answer depends on perspective.

If you run up against a Necro now and try the same old tricks….surprise….you might even think they are OP.

If you run up against a Necro now and have thought about their changes and adapted your play….a much more even contest.

All the whiners about Necros being OP are lazy players who don’t want to adapt and want to continue to own Necros like before. Times have changed a little. It is more about their reluctance to change and adapt than the Necro being absolutely OP.

LFk.1408:

Believe me, I don’t mind the RNG boxes at all. I’ve defended them in the past, and place the blame firmly on the shoulders of the players who can’t control their buying impulses. Many of whom are adults, by the way, so this isn’t even an age thing. Anyway, I digress…

There are very good reasons that gambling is age regulated in every advanced society…as with other choices requiring mature cognitive abilities usually beyond most adolescents in decision making (drinking, voting, credit etc and it is a long list).

The RNG-for-cash boxes are straight gambling without accountability or scrutiny or fairness to the player. It is straight exploitation either of adult peoples’ weaknesses, and don’t say you don’t have any, or some of the most vulnerable in our societies, the young.

Companies DO have responsibilites other than the almighty dollar profit motive, especially in an industry where a lot of their clients are in their formative years. Gaming companies have a responsibility to demonstrate ethics in their dealings with their community and customers….not exploitation just because they are getting away with it at the moment. I believe the cash boxes are an unconscionable exploitation of potentially vulnerable players and an abuse of ANet’s responsibilities.

Get the cheer leaders ready…I don’t think they will like this.

I really do like this game but the issues below yell at me. If we don’t mention issues like this then how will ANet know how we actually feel about their game so they can improve on it.

1. The very thinly disguised exploiting of younger players through the money-for-rng-boxes. RNG for reward for skill/effort is bad enough but these are a lottery, a lucky dip, pure gambling. Although they may technically dodge scrutiny (at the moment) of the various gambling authorities, morally I consider it straight exploitation. There is NO skill involved…just pay and open for a chance…no accountability for the players outcomes….no scrutiny allowed…the exact opposite for other legalised gambling.

2. The way we have been dished out unfinished and largely untested content with multitudes of bugs building on bugs and little effort to fix them…just “temporary” content with more bugs. Now 25 June patch did fix a lot up but if you are cynical you could say that it was only after NCSoft decided to fund an expansion for GW2 so they had better try and sort out the bug mess.
3. Combat boredom. Cheap design and cheap shots to make content more “difficult” (read unpleasant/unenjoyable). One shot mechanics just scream cheap/shortcut design and make for boring content. Likewise for using multiple bazillion add spawns (I have recently seen similar in another MMO that just spawns adds by the squillion to make the content harder…cheap and boring).

Apparently, the Australian Communication and Media Authority may already be looking into this in terms of the Interactive Gaming Act 2001 in Australia…especially as it relates to under 18 players and the game’s approval rating.

I mean it does not matter where it stems from, underage gambling should not be encouraged in any form…especially where there is no public scrutiny or accountability of the “results or outcome” of the gambling process.

In many jurisdictions lotteries have to be licensed by the authorities. If this is indeed a lottery in the ordinary meaning of the term:

Dictionary definition (dictionary.com) of lottery is

lottery
? Use Lottery in a sentence
lot·ter·y
[lot-uh-ree] Show IPA
noun, plural lot·ter·ies.
1.
a gambling game or method of raising money, as for some public charitable purpose, in which a large number of tickets are sold and a drawing is held for certain prizes.
2.
any scheme for the distribution of prizes by chance.
3.
any happening or process that is or appears to be determined by chance:

Makes you wonder doesn’t it?

I must admit I had to laugh at the scene……every waypoint on the island was contested and could not see any other players at all…no wonder. I have been away for a month or so (actually playing Neverwinter) and thought I would try GW again….I suppose it is a welcome of sorts…doesn’t look like AN strategy has changed much.

Just reinstalled the game after the patch and was placed at my old position in Southshore only to be welcomed with this sight. Does that look reasonable?

Well Well….I do eat my words (and I am so happy to do so) and congrats to the devs for finally giving us some much needed love.

Despite the individual changes, and they are not all perfect, this can only add to the diversity of builds which will be more enjoyable to play rather than have to select from a few cookie cutter standards just to compete. Much appreciated.

Now to download the game and reinstall it……………..

Bhawb.7408:

Just remember SotG talks about future changes as well.

Read as laying the groundwork for June 25 patch to be new DS skill plus tooltip fixes….full stop. One day in the future we might get some of the stuff mentioned in the SotG….might….some day but we have seen this month after month with patches.
EDIT: sorry for being so cynical.

Too good….very skeptical….but hopeful. (you know..the head says no way but the heart has its hands wrung together saying please please please)

We haven’t seen any of the crucial variables yet…..damage, range, cooldown, duration. It could be real lame if these are wrongly tuned or grossly OP if it synergised with too many combinations….and we know what the response to that will be.

Bhawb.7408:

Iceflame.5024:

Could you please specify what you mean when saying “Staying in DS for extended periods is dangerous.”?

Dangerous for balance. They had DS tanks that could stay permanently in DS (you know, where you don’t take any damage to your real HP bar, but can still do damage) and stand on point with impunity through things that even a bunker guardian would not do. That build at the time was OP. That isn’t to say extended DS is OP now (Shade, a main problem with that build, is gone), but that it is potentially dangerous. I think they should look at it, I completely agree, I was merely mentioning that it is a potentially dangerous thing.

Thats the very problem…they nerfed the baseline ability (usual approach for them) rather than address the peculiar circumstances. Result: all necro’s suffer for the outlier results of a few. This is NOT the way to balance.

Read the second of JS’s posts. It leaves some questions doesn’t it? Technically the numbers may not have changed but it leaves open the unswered part of his response as to what DID change. It is this type of half-communication approach that leaves doubts in the minds of the players and, accordingly, ANet has only themselves to blame for fueling the “conspiracy” theorists……again.

Looking over this topic you can see again people trying to discount the addition of burning as OP especially in conjunction with fear….and some other combinations that have been pointed out.

This is the root of our malaise now as far as niche builds and lame abilities….they/we are balanced around a multitude of pre-conditionsand combinations rather than the abilities themselves.

There is NOTHING wrong with the necro having burning…and a quite decent implementration of that as well….it is the combinations that need to be addressed….not the raw abilities.

This is how the devs are thinking of our proff now. They are too hesitant because they are trying to balance on improbable/low frequency circumstances and this has resulted in individual abilities being lame (to try and offset low frequency combinations of abilities). This also forcews players into “cookie cutter” builds, which include the abilities to generate those outlier results, because they HAVE TO because that is how the proff has been balanced, to be competitive.

The solution is not to knobble the raw abilities to balance them, they are NOT the issue, it is the combinations of abilities that leads to OP outcomes. It is the combos that have to be addressed thru common cooldowns, or DR on strings of abilities or whatever….not the raw abilities themselves being lame.

This approach would open up the profession for more viable builds that don’t have to be “cookie cutter” to perform competitively….because balance would not be lopsided due to unusual/infrequent combinations.

PS: This is not just the addition of burning…it affects all of our abilities.
Edit: spelling and word order…early morning here

Great bug fix patch…lol.

Tooltips and one fix which is stuffed….way to go.

Game uninstalled (and I know some will be glad to see the back of me). Good luck all.

flow.6043:

@Mana:

I would have eventually commented Oldbugga’s post itself.

Epidemic and Corrupt Boon are not outliers!
Even the example that Oldbugga gave himself (2CB and Epi in a row) are nothing special in WvW. What else do you think is going to happen when 2 necros target a boon heavy guardian in a hostile zerg? And: there’s absolutely nothing super devastating about it that would warrent a nerf. In the heat of the battle people get focused, that’s just how it is. No outliers here…
So nerfing either one would accomplish nothing.

Besides, this and the corresponding thread in the PvP section are for the most part not about the (lack of) damage the necro can do. It’s about what can be improved to make the necro less of an easy target in groupfights, because as it stands the necro’s attrition mechanic (DS + high hp) just doesn’t work as well as the boon stacking of other professions who aren’t branded “the attrition class”.

My example was not chosen as a definitive example of an outlier outcome but merely picked up on a comment by Bas or Bhawb about such a combo melting a zerg…I did not define it as OP.

My basic message (well that I was trying to get across) was directed at the limiting of the base abilities like Epi or CB in themselves (like the nerfs we have seen) rather than unusual OP combinations that occur too frequently for balance. This is what makes the base character abilities lame (as we have seen) and requires the much higher levels of player engagement etc to achieve even comparable outcomes. And there is NO NEED to tone down all outlier results, if they are within accepted frequencies they can be tolerated…but you should NOT gut the base abilities on the basis that some rare combination of circumstances MAY occur….and they should NOT figure prominently in balancing.

From a personal necro point of view (or any other class that struggles to at least achieve some parity with the powerhouses) I find it really frustrating that we are neglected in terms of achieving that balance and although I know Bas/Bhawb have stated that ANet will be toning down other professions to be more in line with our own, I do not see it…and apparently nor do many others as our relative population is at the bottom (shared with engis on 11%). I don’t like using hypothetical or annecdotal reasoning but I think ANet need to look closely at the real reasons for this….and it cannot be sheeted away by glib reference to forum attitude and that the forums are not representative of the playerbase in general because those are merely self serving excuses for other failures.

Personal opinion.

As an ex-systems analyst/auditor (among many other things) I have learned that you should not try to design the basis of any system around outlier low probability results.Outliers need to be accepted as low frequency and seen as such and the circumstances that caused them should be addressed specifically…not only through restricting the activity itself (eg is 2 CBs and 2 epidemics produce an outlier you potentially place a DR on them WHEN USED CLOSELY TOGETHER….NOT generally or in different circumstances). It is almost impossible to incorporate system balance to equitably deal with those improbable outliers and the run-of-the mill results that will overwhelmingly be more likely outcomes.

In many of the arguments here, and as seen by the hesitancy by the devs to even contemplate the occasional outliers in out abilities, reasonable suggestions for the bulk of the potential gameplay suggestions are being too readily dismissed by the slight probability that once in a while the planets will line up and some exceptional outcome is possible…occasionally and NOT consistantly.

I think for balancing and skills development the devs should not be focussing just on the outlier results as reasons to limit abilities but should also consider the likelihood of such aberrations and address that as the balancing factor.

Also, Necro players are not some unique breed of game player. I don’t think “blaming the players” for adopting the “cookie cutter” builds because they work is helping anyone’s cause. Other professions are doing exactly the same and it is the comparitive results that are causing players to be gun shy in trying newer builds which usually have proven to be less effective. I trust more the fact that the competively focussed players will chose the most effective builds rather than hypothesizing that the reason for that choice is that they are lazy or stubborn or reluctant to change. I don’t think the players are at fault for expressing their disatisfaction at the poorer necro performance when adopting the same build strategies as any other profession and achieving inferior results.

Warning: Scrub opinion

It might be my age but I had (have) a lot of trouble mucking around with the traits to extend durations especially with all the cleansing going on. BUT what I have done with my carrion condi wells build is opt for the 20% reduction in cooldowns on corruption, wells and staff skills….that means they are available 20% quicker therefore 20% more damage….it also means a lot more pressure with 12 sec epidemics etc on top of faster avaliabilities. That leaves a bit of leeway for other boosts and foods. It is a bit of a hyperactive build with very little time for auto attacking but I enjoy it.

TLDR: I use the cooldown reduction traits to give more damage due to m ore up-time rather than try and lengthen durations (usually cleansed anyway).

I think it is well recognised that we lack, among other things, mobility, stability and vigor but all the "what-ifs’ and “what-abouts” will get nowhere as the devs will just say “but you have DS” (whether relevant or not to the case in hand)….and we have NO answer to that even though we know it DOES NOT compensate for our shortcomings.

With such a fragmented sniping on individual issues we will always be subject to the “DS” comment/dismissal/out from the devs until we can PROVE that it does not make up for our shortcomings…how we do that I have no idea…that needs to be tackled by players much more skilled than me.

And I don’t know how we can overcome this as the devs themselves cetainly do not appear inclined to take a holistic view of the Necro….they just seem too focused on individual issues to see the forest so to speak.

I doubt complicated chain-type conditions will be favoured as they can be difficult to implement, maintain and balance.

A simple condition, that could be extended to others as well, could be something as simple as “for 3 seconds the target suffers 50% of the direct damage they inflict”….call it the “collateral consequences” or “gung ho” or “sacrifice” or something. Its damage is already tuned as per the damage they inflict normally…it is simple in concept….it can be adapted for other professions….it would be easy to tune/maintain by adjusting the %….and it is boring like all conditions. It is reasonably elegant in its application though…it means that the condition has a cost if the target keeps attacking (self harm) and if they chose to stop attacking (loss of damage output). It should be unblockable and un-dodgeable and unremoveable.

DPS meters might also give us enough data to be able to quantify the lack of balance between professions….maybe a tool that ANet do not want us to have access to so easily.

Well stated Bhawb.

But I don’t think a lot of these issues are a debating exercise/challenge/competition.

Many posters are merely expressing themselves as best as they know how, probably without considering the ins and outs of debating protocol.

I try to inwardly assess the position put forward and see if that fits with my own experiences. If not, there are two alternatives. 1. the proposition has a (some) weakness or 2. my experiences do not match the proponents. More than likely its the second one (for me anyway as I dont know everything). This being the case it is worth it to me to listen to the proponent to expand my own knowledge rather than win the debate and stifle exchange of info. In the end I do not have to accept the proposition but I have probably learned a little along the way. And this is a two-way street…the poster will also learn some too,

(I really think this free flow of info has been largely responsible for the huge improvement in forum etiqette of late).

Exactly…..why is it an issue here? Why was it even raised if not to diminish or cloud the arguement? It has nothing to do with the post about the downed state health. As I mentioned above we DO NOT need to give the devs ready made excuses to ignore issues or cloud those issues with extraneous “noise”. Similarly with issues about unkown priorities. WE are not privy to those priorities so we have to bring issues to notice when we can…we have no alternative as we have not the information to prioritise them ourselves.

I can understand the need to make posts meaningful yet respectful and I really do appreciate the effort made to “clean up” the “noise” but care is needed that in doing so we don’t fall foul of the very same characteristics we are seeking to mollify.

And exactly what is wrong with remembering the bad things? It is how we develop survival skills.

The fact that people bring up faults rather than things going well is because we expect things to go well…we paid for it after all.

That we talk about the things going wrong is not an issue and it shouldn’t detract from the issues themselves. This is just a red herring and the issues remain. To dismiss issues on the basis of some anecdotal generalisation about human nature only fuels the continued neglect of our issues by the devs.

Just as an onlooker it looked like you were really trying to shut him up. Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick. By the way I have really appreciated the change in the forum demeanour. It is a much more pleasant place to be…as long as we can all express ourselves openly because there are many differing opinions on many things…all equally valid.

C’mon Bas…people are allowed to express themselves and I certainly don’t think any other poster should be trying to censor that expression….whether it ruffles the feathers or not.

The devs have to know how their player base is really feeling…not some filtered “we mustn’t upset their sensibilities” version. It is just this sort of cow-towing to devs that gives them the “approval” to keep treating player’s views as an “irritation”.

AND we should not be “punished” by the devs by keeping us out in the cold just for expressing disappointments in their implementation of the game.

I do agree that the necro forum has calmed down of late and that those you mentioned have significantly contributed to that BUT I don’t see any change in THEIR (devs) forum behaviour of late (how many posts compared to the other professions) nor any indication that player views are even significantly registering with them.

Personal opinion…I have always been a strong advocate for expressing genuine views.

Again we get “fillers” to make the list look bigger…..tooltip fixes……..really….it just gives an indication of their appreciation of their player base again…..I thought next month was about this sort of stuff?? I can’t see these as any sort of balance adjustment…just fillers. I am really getting the feeling that they do not know “which way is up” with the necros.

My concern is that the meta game is designed around multiplayer engagements yet Anet have admitted that events like the karka event in Nov far exceeded the game engine’s capacity. I fear that optimizations may be a lot more complex than just a few tweaks and this seems to be born out by the slow progress so far. I wouldn’t hold the breath for quick improvements.

To those players who are becoming disenchanted, not with the game but being continually ignored by ANet, the lack of any input from the devs to most of our issues smacks of either one of two things or more likely a combination of both. They are a: contempt for the players obvious concerns as paying customers and/or b: they do not have the skills/manpower necessary to maintain/understand the class. I hope this is not the case but in the void of their total silence on important issues players will form their own opinions. A little communication goes a LONG way to forestalling decaying player perceptions.