One of the worst ideas you could implement on GW.
You basically are trying to remove one of the big aspects of it that is you need to choose 5 skills and go with it. Just like GW1 where you need to choose 8 skills out of hundreds.
In other games you can use any skill at anytime which i think its not fun as you just remove the aspect of building
Raids are impossible without meta, we need easy mode!
That 10 turret eng pug clear was clearly hackz!!!!
And this witchcraft now :
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6aje9v/vg_only_kitten_off_meta_build_pls/
How is this possible?!?! We all know that raiding is only for meta elitist non-life hardcore pizza gamers!!!
/s
True, yet you are already quantifying your respons which shows that you are well aware that the solution of adding multiple difficulties has not gone over well in other MMOs.
Which in turn means the effort to implement it in a proper way is more than just some easy number changes here and there running against the argument it can be done easily.
My guess is they will stick to having challenge motes and just keep the fights tuned down slightly. How well this works out and how the addition of more raid wings affects longevity only time will tell. I’m just happy the entire disscussion has died down a bit with some people deciding that they dislike the legendary armor look (and thus not caring), and others giving raids a try. In both cases it’s less people theorycrafting in circles on the forum.
The conversation has slowed because there is currently no new raid – and legendary armor has turned into a bit of a logistical and perception nightmare for them – but I do feel confident the issue of accessibility to the content and story remains as big an issue for people as ever.
I qualified my statement because some people like to point at multiple modes in other games as a bad thing – something that corrupted them, when I believe it is primarily because they feel raids should be the sole domain of the hardcore player. An undeniable fact is that many games continue to use the model because it does appeal to wide portions of their playerbase.
It is also worth noting that even before multiple modes were implemented, pretty much all of these games had a built in means to provide greater access to the content that GW2 will never have – specifically level and gear treadmills. Those treadmills allowed developers to balance raids for the extreme hardcore player at first, with the understanding they would become more and more accessible as time went on – to the point where pretty much every player would be able to experience them.
So it was always a consideration in the design of raids in those games.
I think most agree that these treadmills do not – and NEVER SHOULD – exist in GW2. That means that gradually increasing accessibility doesn’t exist here in any real form. As a result, raids are being designed with a broader swath of players in mind from day one. That means two things – one, they will always be watered down more than they should be for hardcore players and two, they will always feel inaccessible to less serious players.
The result of that is what we have now – raids that arent really challenging at all for one group but still feel overly inaccessible to those whose playstyles dont fit a specific mold. In trying to force fit a single difficulty into them, they will end up with something less than it should be.
Multiple modes – especially if implemented through a story mote of some kind – fix many of these issues in my opinion (not saying it is perfect solution – just the best one we probably have).
The best solution we probably have is letting raids as they are now. A lot of people love the raids and dont want it easier or harder, because its not boring and at same time you can do things like the 10 turret enginer pug raid that showed on reddit.
And i’m pretty sure a-net will stick with this solution as its dont involve risk of actually making things a lot of worse.
No one is talking about dumbing down anything. People are proposing the creation of an alternative way to experience the content – one that not only wouldn’t affect the harder mode, but would give the developers free licence to make the actual challenging raids even more challenging.
And, again, I think that could be accomplished with little impact on developmental resources by transitioning from challenge to story motes (and then making the main experience the considerably harder one).
And they could have used those challenge mote resources, to provide better polished encounters. Better polished encounters is better for the game mode as a singular challenge level.
Except, as long as they have to be worried about balancing encounters to account for a greater range of skill levels in a single mode (which was obviously their intent in wing 4), the same issue exists as in your example.
Using those resources on story motes (or a straight up story mode) gives them greater leeway in providing challenging content throughout a raid – meaning greater purity of purpose and a true challenging and polished raiding experience for those wanting it. Imo, they cannot provide a proper raid with the model they have now – and their answer in wing 4 (challenge motes) didn’t really work.
Why not use those resources on something people are actually asking for?
How much dummbed down, boring should the content be to be considered easy?
As its stands it can be completed by 10 pugs using turrets enginer:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/69hjyp/10_turret_engineer_cairn_kill_with_pugs/
There is never easy enough so you would create a content that is boring, dont have any epic feeling, that would still be hard for some people, and damaged the best current content of GW2. Congratulations you wasted resource to damage the game instead of focusing resources on places that need it.
Hate this argument because i know a lot of players like me that have a job, a wife AND kids, and still can raid normally.
If you have time to play the game you have time to raid, stop blamming your job/family as the reason you cant raid.Those kids and wife (or husband) deserve better then.
I agree! Well said.
Yes because if you spend 2 hours farming SW you are not forsaking your family, but god forbid you raid for 30 mins you are a terrible human being and should be ashamed /s
Playing open world content is using ones own time, doing raiding is using other peoples time. Its not the same.
Playing for 1 hour is playing for 1 hour no matter what you doing, If you can play one hour in SW you can raid, if you dont is your choice not because your family dont allow it.
If you look at it that way then you fail to understand my point. The hour isn’t the same because one is your time and the other hour is other peoples time. In other words a hour of my own time I can stop what I’m doing in the game to do other important things or I might have to stop all together abruptly. It doesn’t infringe upon anyone else. Were as with other peoples time you cant do this. You can’t just tell a group of people who expect you to be there and depend on you, that you are going afk for a extended period of time. Its disrespectful and selfish.
You dont go afk, you just say " Hey guys something happened, i got to go, thx for the run" and then you leave the group and do the stuff you need to do. There, problem solved. See thats how every adult raid, they go raid when they find a group and if something happens irl they just leave the group.
Hate this argument because i know a lot of players like me that have a job, a wife AND kids, and still can raid normally.
If you have time to play the game you have time to raid, stop blamming your job/family as the reason you cant raid.Those kids and wife (or husband) deserve better then.
I agree! Well said.
Yes because if you spend 2 hours farming SW you are not forsaking your family, but god forbid you raid for 30 mins you are a terrible human being and should be ashamed /s
Playing open world content is using ones own time, doing raiding is using other peoples time. Its not the same.
Playing for 1 hour is playing for 1 hour no matter what you doing, If you can play one hour in SW you can raid, if you dont is your choice not because your family dont allow it.
Hate this argument because i know a lot of players like me that have a job, a wife AND kids, and still can raid normally.
If you have time to play the game you have time to raid, stop blamming your job/family as the reason you cant raid.Those kids and wife (or husband) deserve better then.
I agree! Well said.
Yes because if you spend 2 hours farming SW you are not forsaking your family, but god forbid you raid for 30 mins you are a terrible human being and should be ashamed /s
If you have time to play the game you have time to raid, stop blaming your job/family as the reason you cant raid.
I feel sorry for those neglected children then…
But seriously, it takes an hour just to get a functional raid group together, after all the job-jockeying, gear checking, LI-confirming, raid strat breakdowns, bio breaks…
And then there’s actually doing the raid.Sorry not sorry, but time limitations are a thing. Stop being rude about it.
You dont need to wait 1 hour, you log you look at lfg see if some group fits you, you join, you raid. There done. Yes not everyday at everytime you find a group that suits you so you move on to other things. I find funny that if you look at these people time played that say they dont have time you would see a lot of time.
If you can play you can raid period.
people keep glossing over and forgetting that there is another subset of players, who with responsibilities like children and the like, would love to able to raid and get the rewards but due to said circumstances cannot do the raids. these are the folks that would like to get the armor and do the content but cannot. sorting out your “personal issues” takes 18 years in that regard. but that said even another method of acquisition through 30 or so additional collection acheivements will take a heck of a long time but with planning could still be done by them, but currently the system is kinda exclusionary, all other legendary items, yes take long but are still attainable, even the pvp back piece can be done like that. but the armor is a no go. it’s the one reward that one and only one group of players can get and that sucks.
so if by chance the devs are do somehow read this post please, reconsider the stance on raids only, some of us would love to do the content but due to other commitments can’t so please allow us a chance, even if it costs more and takes a heck of a lot longer the chance to get legendary armor because a lot of us love the skins, not all but a lot.
Hate this argument because i know a lot of players like me that have a job, a wife AND kids, and still can raid normally.
If you have time to play the game you have time to raid, stop blamming your job/family as the reason you cant raid.
Talking about the map:
Really loved the aestus and ignis fight, the mechanics on the vulcan , destroying floors, differente kind of fire attacks, the fact that you can do the pre events alone. I’m more a instanced content player but you really did a great job on this, hope to see more open world events/boss like the Aestus and Ignis.
If they do this i will finally go after one legendary weapon, just to use sigil of slaying X/ sigil of night/ sigil of force depending on which fractal i will be doing instead of sigil of force all the time.
If you have a ping that spike often then there is nothing you can do.
But if you have a stable and high ping like me, always 180 or 200. Then i would suggest you to go for nightmare normal 25 to train your position alone.
I thought it was impossible with my ping but now is commom for me complete two circles at 33% on 100cm.
At 180 I need to follow the orbs almost touching it. With 300 if its stable you probably need to be exatcly where the orb is.
Itss a margonite. Abaddon is coming.
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Margonite
Look at the purple aura at the trailer match the purple from margonites, and abadon is the god of secrets.
If you want to dps as a mesmer there are some bosses that you can play as Cond mesmer as matthias or MO or Cairn.
Now as a chrono you dont need to be the tank you can be the second job but your role will not be tanking or dpsing, your goal is to provide 100% uptime of quickness and alacry.
You can check de build and discriptions here http://qtfy.eu/build/mesmer .
Why it matter for open world? Its so easy that it dont change a thing.
Meteor shower nerf, how it affects open world, banner change, revenant F1….
It was not balanced around open world, because balance doesnt matter for open world. So they never buffed things for open world before raids, and not nerfed either.
Because it doesnt matter.
The only reason some core specs are better then cond ( cond eng, cond ranger ) its because their elite have a different porpuse ( druid is support focus ) the moment both get a cond elite then you will not see the core classes anymore.
And this is just like elite skills on GW1, you arent suppose to not use 1.
And core classes will never provide something elite cant, because you can still equip two traits from the core classes to get something the elite cant provide.
The only real solution if they want the core classes to still be on the same foot is take one trait from each class and make it an elite.
I do would like to see a raid implemented in the next expansion as part of the story. And now, before you jump your guns, yes, it should have a story mode, and a solo mode.
That, or story mode and raid mode, where in raid mode all the dialogue and cutscenes are left out.Frozen Citadel W1: Halls of the Patient
Frost Goliath (A giant beast)
Shaman of Frost, Hail and Snow (The three shamans fighting in conjunction)
Spirit of Boar (Corrupted spirit of the wild)Frozen Citadel W2: The Claim of the Forgotten
Behemoth (A norn who, during the LS, recollected the Fang of the Serpent, and merged with it)
Yassith the Tainted (from the item set)
Event Boss: Rescue Braham (someone needs to change his diaper)
Voice of the Cold Mourning (kodan)Frozen Citadel W3: The Great Span
(second) Claw of Jormag (like a mini dragon)
Borje Sunstrider (Braham’s papa)
Jormag, The Dwarf of the North (a homunculus body jormag made so he could interact with the spirits of the wild)
Jormag, The Elder Dragon (the big baddy)
Whats the difference between what you are suggestion and “Heart And Mind” Hot last chapter?
None, the moment you make it “solo” or easy story, its not a raid anymore, its a story content, or solo content.
Raid is group challenge content.
You want more story and solo content, you dont want raid.
So stop asking for “solo raid” because that is the same of asking for “PvP that you only fight npcs” its dont make sense.
What GW2 need is not to change, but add more options to its system.
The most obvious one, elite especializations, it was created so you choose one elite at time, but we still only have 1, so we dont have a choice. They need to add at least two more on the next exp.
Add more PvP and BattleGround modes for people that love PvP.
Add more fractals and challenge mode…
We just need more options for the current content, not wasting time changing core gameplay while not adding new content to use it, and making it even hard to balance.
One suggestion that i really like was: Allow to change T6 material for another T6 material on a 4:3 ratio.
Like you could take 100 T6 metal material and exchange for 75 T6 leather material.
This way all the prices would find a balance, not being too cheap, not too price.
As a-net showed in the april fool patch note they know that the complaints and even for then having a infatile raid mode where you just reduce the hp and damage is a joke.
Please don’t tell me you’re making an argument based on an April Fools Day joke. That is tunnel vision at its most extreme.
At this point, I have to believe that Anet sees they have a problem with raids and accessibility, and that they need to do something to fix it before it has a detrimental impact on the game.
And of course the answer isn’t simply to reduce everything by half. That would be arbitrary, poorly thought out and worthy of a little April 1 humor.
And you made arguments based in what you believe without any data to back it up. Claiming that something need to be fixed, something that are working better then intended, as anet stated when they got the first raid data.
So you are the one that make doom calls based only in your beliefe and claim that as hard truth, which clearly isnt.
As a-net showed in the april fool patch note they know that the complaints and even for then having a infatile raid mode where you just reduce the hp and damage is a joke.
There is a reason all other games only have some skin and things like xp bonus for events. Finally anet realised that having new maps . Fractals. Raid are better then new events and im really happy with this decision.
Every reward should be available as long as you put in enough dedication into your chosen gameplay. That gameplay should not be gated behind a social challenge like in raids. On the other hand, a purely technical challenge, like in Dark Souls which stays true to the casual philosophy? That in my mind is fair to ask.
On a side note, if raids had heroes that I can personally control and take responsibility over. Then the accessibility of raids will become available to everyone with enough dedication to succeed.
You are complaining that GW2 has content that you need people to complete it?
Of course it has , its a MMO after all, if you want Challenge without getting anyone involved then you play Dark Souls, Demon Souls, Bloodborn as you said. ( i love those games too )
I’m a casual too, and I raid. Its actually easy to get a group together if you make a network of friends.
Everytime i got a nice pug group, i would add the commander, and say to him that he feels free to invite me again anytime he wants. Now its very commom for me to just be playing and get a pm “Hey wanna join a Xera kill” then i just go and get a fast kill.
So raids are really acessibly if you want to play little time, but for this to happen you need to get the social aspect of a MMO and socialize.
You can play a MMO solo, but complaining that something cant be dono solo, then go play single player games.
Gee, there are many cool skins locked behind content I’m not interested in.
They are not the legendary armor skin. The only one.
By saying “you’re not worthy of that armor set”, you are sending a message telling all those people “you’re second-class citizens”.
Who is saying someone “is not worthy”? Not being “worthy” is a judgement, which I have not seen anywhere in game or by Anet. It doesn’t make any more sense than saying that if you don’t have a ticket, you are “not worthy” to see Hamilton…..
What is actually happening is that you have to successfully do raid content in order to get the armor.
This is exactly the same as a Legendary back item. At one time there was only 1 available through only 1 mode of game play. Now there are 2 but each is still only available through 1 mode of game play.
I don’t see a problem with this. Many MMOs have similar exclusive rewards for modes of game play.
As I said before if it were “just a skin” I’d have no real issue with it, but legendary armor animates when in combat. No other armor in the game can.
When I bought this game, if I wanted a legendary weapon I could slowly work toward it. I could buy it off the trading post by slowly working accumulating gold. There were options in ways to get ascended armor.
Now, the game has in fact changed. New legendary weapons require participation in certain content (at least the old new ones lol) and legendary armor requires you to beat the hardest content in the game.
If we’re talking about changing identity, which is what the thread is about, I’m not sure that it can be denied in this context.
Why you cant slowly work toward legenadry armor?
Because you dont like raids?
Guess what i dont like the boring open world pve, so i dont get cool legendaries like Astralia, nothing changed. You just liked the content where the reward you wanted was.
Really? Just make your own group. 40 Farm is not for fun. Almost nobody find fun running molten boss back to back. So you want to make it the most profitable possible. I dont have a tempest, but i dont see a problem with a group wanting to make the most of gold per minute.
Nobody wants to make like half the gold per hour because you want to join as a cond build for 40 farm.
I raided for years in another game when I was younger and had the time and energy for it. It got old…
Then I found GW2, which sadly became infected with raids after HoT.
I get it, it’s fun to be part of the exclusive club. But the rest of the community who doesn’t join it because they aren’t good enough, don’t have the time or just plain don’t want to, that part of the community feel left out.
No matter which way they try to spin it, they are using dev resources on these raids that could be spent in other areas of the game that a larger percentage of the game population can experience and enjoy. It’s wasted resources in our eyes.
I can let this slide and try to ignore raids as they currently stand, because they don’t really provide anything provocatively rewarding. But legendary armor is where I draw the line. That is flat out spitting in the face of every person who doesn’t enjoy raiding, I consider it being a personal insult to the non raiding community “haha, this is the fanciest armor in the game, and you will never have it!”.
The moment when I am standing in a city and see a player fully clad in the most intricately crafted, fantastic armor the devs have ever created and knowing it is gated behind RAIDS, this is probably where I’ll uninstall the game.
And what about WvW and sPvP players that absolutly hate open world? You are also part of an exclusive club with all legendary weapons with and after HoT.
But those things only matter if you are excluded from something, the rest doesn’t matter…
Exactly this, there was always exclusive stuff. But seems the moment some people want something and cant get it the way they want to get it , its a game problem. Talk about entitlement.
Cantha! Cantha! Cantha!
And we’ve come back full circle.
Essentially what I am getting at is that probably the hardest thing Arenanet can figure out is how many players who aren’t raiding are genuinely interested in the story, compared to those wanting an easy-mode to have a better track at getting rewards. It’s not hard for the devs to figure out how many are raiding, but they need to value their time with such a development.
The worst case would be that they create this story-mode that serves a purpose of delivering Story to the more general audience, and there’s maybe a thread or two from players who really liked the story instance and saw it as a positive…while the following shows up on this sub-forum and maybe General Discussion for weeks:
- “Story-Mode is still too hard!”
- “WTF Story Mode doesn’t give real loot?”
- “Now that you gave us story mode, give us Legendary Armor!”
- “Another broken promise, Raids no longer the most difficult content.”Just as a flow, Devs get backlash not just from players who expected to be rewarded something akin to what the current raids reward, but current raiders who feel like the identity of raids is scarred permanently.
Does that make sense?
I agree. A lot of players already pointed it out. Creating an easy mode will not solve a problem, will damage the content that is in a really good place, and open a can of worms with a lot of new problems, as when its easy enough? There a lot of players that cant even complete Hearts and Minds solo or T3 Fractals.
There will be topics like :
“Why casuals get scraps of rewards and hardcore players get full rewards? Isnt the challenge enought for them?”
“Can we get shard of LI rewards from story mode that you mystic forge to full LI?”
“Where is the epic raid story i was told about? Its boring”
“GW2 is just a raid centric game now, stop raids!”
For those that forgot about/didn’t know about the Dungeon nerf
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-economy/
Dungeon Rewards
Over the last couple of years, dungeons have been a major part of the game’s economy; between unique armor and liquid rewards, they’re often farmed. In the expansion, we’ll move away from this paradigm. As the game progressed, we shifted focus from dungeons to fractals and raids, and we firmly believe that fractals and raids are the content that we want to continue to support. As a part of that process, we’ll shift some rewards away from dungeons and into other pieces of content. While dungeons will remain cool experiences that’ll reward players with unique items, their liquid rewards will be reduced and other content will become more rewarding. The shift in rewards is a direct representation of our focus on raids and fractals and our commitment to make them the best they can be.
Everyone know about these nerfs. And they buffed dungeons reward after the nerf. What a lot of people dont know, you included, that dungeons are profitable again after the buffs.
If everyone knows about the nerf then there wouldn’t be a post above me asking about the nerf. The post right above me said they were later buffed so I didn’t see the point in repeating it.
He was being sarcastic asking how all those things were nerfed, because just like me, he knows that all those things the other person claimed was nerfed ( dungeons, fractals, pvp rewards) are not nerfed, but buffed.
For those that forgot about/didn’t know about the Dungeon nerf
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-economy/
Dungeon Rewards
Over the last couple of years, dungeons have been a major part of the game’s economy; between unique armor and liquid rewards, they’re often farmed. In the expansion, we’ll move away from this paradigm. As the game progressed, we shifted focus from dungeons to fractals and raids, and we firmly believe that fractals and raids are the content that we want to continue to support. As a part of that process, we’ll shift some rewards away from dungeons and into other pieces of content. While dungeons will remain cool experiences that’ll reward players with unique items, their liquid rewards will be reduced and other content will become more rewarding. The shift in rewards is a direct representation of our focus on raids and fractals and our commitment to make them the best they can be.
Everyone know about these nerfs. And they buffed dungeons reward after the nerf. What a lot of people dont know, you included, that dungeons are profitable again after the buffs.
no body is forcing you to do raids stop complaining the game has to appeal to a lot of types of people
Dungeon, Pvp, and Fractal rewards were all nerfed I’d mention WVW but they didn’t have anything to nerf.
Dungeons were indeed to push people into raids and raids were exempt from the so called changes to normalizing gear aquisition.
It’s not that people are forced to do raids but the things people like to do are getting nerfed in an attempt to shovel those people into a mode they have no interest.
Raids are the teachers pet never getting into trouble and getting free passes in life while the others are in a corner with those cone hats. So of course people will be resentful in regards to raids. Probably could have used a better example but meh..
Tell me how fractals rewards are nerfed? T4 fractals daily give the best reward fractals ever had add the 3 daily T4+the daily 100 CM and you get rewards better then raids.
In 1 week, raids give you 150 MS, and a chance of ascended from each boss ( its not rare to get 0 ascended after all the bosses ).
In 1 week, fractals give 21 Master Chest and 21 of other chests, that have a good chance of ascended, and liquid gold, and infusions. More relics that you can get 20 slot bags, some skins, stat infusions….
Dungeon were nerfed, but then they buffed it back, its profitable to run for the achiev of 5 gold.
So yeah, Fractals and Dungeons, are rewarding, even more then raids by the effort you need to do them.
And pvp got the ascended weapons/armor on top of the already good track rewards.
So stop lying about rewards.
Again, box sales are lacking; Gem Store sales are relatively even.
I’ve no idea how ‘loyal’ vets are; do they spend more money in the Gem Store than newer players? Do vets still need the items newer players might find convenient, after all this time?
I don’t think we have the answers to those questions, not being privy to the sales breakdowns….or any other kind of metrics.
Again, everyone has their own opinions. It would be great if we had actual facts. Maybe, some day. =)
You want some facts? It’s a fact that at least some people feel the game’s identity has changed. That’s an absolute fact. It’s a fact that at least some people claim to have stopped playing because of it.
There’s no way to tell how big that population is but to deny it exists is senseless.
No one has ever accused me of being overly hard on this game, but I can see how people I know have been affected by some of the changes.
And there is people that came back just because of HoT and raids.
Me and my friends played GW1 since prophecies until the launch of GW2, then we quit GW2 in the first year. Why? Because there wasnt challenge content, you didnt need to adapt your build for the content, builds felt meaningless ( All the things that we loved about GW1). I went back to GW1.
Now GW2 is back to the track like GW1, offering meaning build choices ( what give meaning to a build is the encounter ) and challenging fun content without gear trendmill. So we all came back when hot was announced, and we sticked to it, and dont plain to leave. If gw2 had challenge content we would never have left.
I dont agree with the “kitten ed if you do, kitten ed if you don’t” its way more like “mediocre if you do, mediocre if you dont” as only the torment while moving is still way less damage that every other cond class, and the burning+torment if the target dont move is way less damage than even cond guardian ( and cond guardian isnt competitive).
And about the ranged option, if you play well you dont need to range, so this will not solve the problem of lack of damage. (but having a ranged option is still nice ).
But remember i’m talking about PvE, because PvP rev is fine.
The biggest problem with Cond Rev is:
He is melee and have a pulsing fire field, so what this tell you: He wants the enemy to not move so he can dps as melee and pulse the firefield.
His main condition is torment, so what this tell you: He wants the enemy to move so the torment actually do good damage.
See the problem that this has no sinergy together.
But there is a way to fix it without making it a ranged weapon. They could change the trait:
Maniacal Persistence- Increase your critical-hit chance every few seconds. This bonus is reset when you land a critical hit.
This is a pretty bad master trait for cond rev. So i suggest the change:
New Maniacal Persistence - While Embrace the darkness is active your torment deals the damage of a moving target even if the target is not moving.
This way the kit has sinergy while not making it broken ( as you cant have embrance the darkness active all the time ).
If they dont do it because of technical issues to track the torment it could be like this:
New Maniacal Persistence - While Embrace the darkness is active when you apply torment you apply despair instead.
New cond despair - Its the same as torment ( use the same cond duration etc ) but have the damage of moving torment.
Another change, remove the animation lock from Echoing Eruption, make it like Tremor from warrior mace 5.
And Venom Enhancement should have a 5 sec internal cooldown in PvE.
you only have fun if you wn/beat a boss?
if you were in a raid with 9 strangers and 1 friend and your friend was under performing – would you kick him, knowing he wants to stay and learn?
I’m not a child neither are my friends. We are all grown adults, so i can explain to him the mechanics, then if he keep failing, i can explain to him that we are not a training run, and we will need to replace him, and we will try again next time.
Him like an adult understand and dont cry “you are not my friend anymore snif snif”.
Don’t believe when people say that lake doric farm is bad.
Just look at LFG you will see groups of leather farming on laking doric, join one, then you will see by yourself if its bad or not ( which is not ).
indeed, you value beating a boss (a bunch of pixels) more important than a group having fun together or screwing someone over.
No, i value fun a lot, but what is fun that knowing that you never beat the boss because of this single person?
And most people would say that is way more fun to beat the boss than just getting wiped over and over again because of the same person.
lol this kind of attitude demonstrates exactly what im talking about – Kicking people is a good thing, tunnel vision is a good thing, think affecting people negatively for the sake of a niche mod is ‘irrelevant’.
Kicking people based on their performance instead of a prejudice is a good thing, tunnel vision is not a dps meter related problem, people getting offended by a .dll file is not a dps meter problem.
As i said its a well know problem – ‘dps kitten’ is a recognized behavior. incidentally kicking someone based on performance is actually not a good thing in a game, its nasty. just the same as it would be nasty if you kicked a guildy out of a raid due to bad performance which ofc people do not do (its about respecting strangers as well as friends)
Really? Kicking someone for really bad performace is not ok but being unable to beat a boss is ok. So now because you can’t kick someone all the other 9 people need to pay the price that is wasting their time and not getting the kill because of 1 person?
Since when 1 person is more important than 9 other persons?
Well you can’t do a lot about the way people feel. Change is necessary to keep things alive and also to keep people interested.
That’s exactly why raids ought to be ‘changed’ to offer options that would make them more inclusive.
:D
Being hard doesnt make it less inclusive.
Inclusive its just the time you need to get the minimun gear to participate in Raids, which is extremely inclusive.
Easier options is not making it more inclusive, is dumbing down a challenge content, and changing it in a way that make no sense, because they didnt want raids as new easy content.
Every time they think about new easy content, they think about a new Open world map they create.
It’s hard to have a topic about raids without it becoming the same discussion, hope this one stays on topic.
@Topic: I really would like a raid about the nightmare court. We only had human raid bosses, so i hope we see raid with Char, Sylvari, Norn and Asura as raid bosses too.
I’ve been keeping an eye on this post, and I’ve seen several comments asking for the removal of the penalty box. Unfortunately, that mechanic is intricately involved in the design of the entire instance and removing it is simply not feasible.
Great to hear it, its the last fight of an expansion, we are fighting an elder dragon. It should at least be on a difficulty above the rest of the story ( but the truth is that its not even that hard ).
If was not for the many bugs this fight would had been received much better as a last battle.
One funny thing about this post.
The people that are saying that GW2 lost its identity are asking for things like LFR from WoW, which means they want GW2 to copy another game, such Hypocrisy.
If you played Guild Wars 1 since the its launch until now you know what is unique to GW frenchise and its identity:
- The skill bar with only 8 skills that you can change. Both GW1 and GW2 have it.
- You can change traits any time there is no such thing as skill reset npc. In GW1 the traits are the attribute points.
- No Gear Trendmill, once you get the best gear you got it forever even if you come back after 2 expansions.
- All kind of content, easy and very hard content, but not all content have different difficulty options.
So yeah GW2 is keeping true to the frenchise ideology. But the moment they implement such things like LFR is the moment GW gave up to its core philosophy.
You never say that this easy mode raids are what you want, you say that it what everyone wants.
An easy mode raid should be what everyone wants, except for those not wanting raids period.
Do you like raids? You should want to see an easy mode as it’ll greatly increase the participation and thus justify further development. There probably would have been a lot more dungeons today if they scaled for 1+.
See WoW. Raiding was originally less than 1% back in the hardcore days prior to WotLK. With LFR, raiding is now completed by the majority, where normal raiding is around 20% and hard mode progression raiding a fraction of that. The simple truth is, most people play for fun, solo and don’t want to waste their time. LFR is just that, where you simply queue up and win. If GW2 offered that, where you could earn the same rewards and just take 10x longer to earn them, it’d certainly be far more popular. To differentiate, actual raids could simply offer different cosmetics, like how SAB TM has colored weapons.
Stop bringing WoW LFR argument. WoW is a Raid Centric game. GW2 is nto a Raid Centric game.
Raids and easy are two oposite things. If you want easy things you look for other things, anyone who like raids dont like easy mode.
And you can see how implementing it is a really bad move just look at wing 4. They introduced two of the easiest bosses you could have. And still the easy mode crowed dont like / dont do it, and almost all the raiders dont like how boring the two first bosses are.
See trying to please everybody ending pleasing nobody. Its a universal truth, people like different things.
So let me rephrase that for you:
“An easy mode raid should be what no one wants, except for those not wanting to raid in the first place period.”
You need to accept that this is what raids are.
Open world is the easiest content.
Fractals are instanced content on 4 levels ( kitten,T3,T4).
Meta Events are open world easy group content.
Raids are instance hard content.
There is nothing that its not the identity of the game, you people pull this argument off thin air.
You want to change a content to fit what you like, which is selfish.The forums are here – in part – to discuss what we feel should be – or we would like to see – changed. That is the whole point of threads like these. And I think enough people see an issue here to warrant ongoing discussion (at the very least)
And please stop with the insulting “selfish” and “you people”-style comments. It would be just as easy to say that raiders not wanting this are being just as selfish – not wanting to see their private club opened to the unwashed public (IM NOT SAYING THIS – it is just to prove a point). The truth is the “selfish” argument – from either side, is ridiculous.
This isnt about entitlement or selfishness. It is about changes people would personally like to (or, not like to) see implemented. Leave the veiled insults out of it. They add nothing to the conversation.
You never say that this easy mode raids are what you want, you say that it what everyone wants.
You say a lot of things like:
“Its to the better of the game”
“Raids are hurting the game”
“Raids need to catter to everyone”
You are not bringing arguments, you claiming things like truth without prove to sustain it.
So with lies like that you cant have a discussion, if you want to have a discussion about something bring prove to backup your words.
Everytime I asked for prove, like when you say that raids are not acessible because of meta, then i ask you, what builds? then you say “I dont know what build my group were using”.
You like to claim a lot of things, but you never bring data to backup it up.
So they dont want to put effort even when they want to use non meta builds, so its only natural that they dont get rewards for no effort. Period.
Now the second bold part:
No it wont hurt the game, but trying to make every part of the game to every kind of player would hurt the game. Because its never work, things will not be for everyone. Open world is not for everyone. There are a lot of players that hate it because its boring.So trying to achieve this impossible goal ( making every game mode for everyone ) will only hurt the game, as it will still be not for everyone, and now its not even for the people it was created at first.
It isnt about putting zero effort in. With dungeons and fractals, they did it right. A good mix of mechanics without limiting factors like we see in raids. It is about degrees. And while you may feel raids are in a good place in that regard, many do not.
It isnt about people being lazy. It isnt about people wanting reward for nothing. These are ridiculous arguments. Of course more challenging content (and more challenging versions) should have better rewards. Almost no one is debating that AT ALL (but it is easier to argue against the idea of tiers when you assume they have, so it keeps coming up).
It is about a wider range of options and experiences within the content mode – options and experiences that fit better with the identify of the game for the first 3.5 years (the topic of this thread).
And, again, it isnt about denying challenging content. I want that as much as anyone.
You need to accept that this is what raids are.
Open world is the easiest content.
Fractals are instanced content on 4 levels ( kitten,T3,T4).
Meta Events are open world easy group content.
Raids are instance hard content.
There is nothing that its not the identity of the game, you people pull this argument off thin air.
You want to change a content to fit what you like, which is selfish.
As i said in other post, show me this comp that you tried and didnt work, and only pros would make it work.
Because its not true, if its come and show the comp or stop telling lies just because people want rewards for no effort.
I’m really far away of being a pro and i play with 180-200 ping still manage to clear raids with many kinds of builds.
The only boss that you have a lot of options but not every single build is viable ( like 10 healing tempest ) are Sabetha and Gors because Gors insta kill everyone, and Sabetha will eventually destroy the platform.I have no clue what builds all of these people were bringing – and it doesn’t really matter.
The problem exists in game – whether you believe it to be a perception issue or not. Maybe it’s something that players could fix, but we all know how unlikely that is – even if it were possible. There are a lot of people who just don’t want to put the work into it (and, that is okay – again, its just a different way of playing the game).
As long as the perception persists, the issue will persist – and it will hurt the game (whether you think that is justified or fair or whatever – the perception will create the reality).
The answer is greater accessibility, even if you – or even the raid team – have issues with that answer. Changing gears this drastically 4 years into the game – which is what the raid model has done (even if you dont agree – perceptually, it has) - is only going to alienate players and hurt the game.
So they dont want to put effort even when they want to use non meta builds, so its only natural that they dont get rewards for no effort. Period.
Now the second bold part:
No it wont hurt the game, but trying to make every part of the game to every kind of player would hurt the game. Because its never work, things will not be for everyone. Open world is not for everyone. There are a lot of players that hate it because its boring.
So trying to achieve this impossible goal ( making every game mode for everyone ) will only hurt the game, as it will still be not for everyone, and now its not even for the people it was created at first.
With dungeons, there was always much more wiggle room. Any build and playstyle was reasonably (very important word) viable, no matter how far from the meta. Players that chose not to min-max could still enjoy the content while retaining some unique character identity.
Rose-tinted glasses, anyone?
Except it isnt about rose-tinted glasses – AT ALL. In the early game days, my guild had “dungeon days” every week in which we did them in guild groups (I remember this clearly because I was the one that set them up). We never once even stopped to consider what professions or builds people were bringing. At most, in EXTREMELY rare cases, we might have someone swap in a guardian on lupicus if the group was struggling, but, again that was very rare. We cared more about the attitude (eg friendly) of the player more than anything else.
Were they the fastest dungeon runs ever? Of course not – but we didnt care. We were having fun doing the content with people we chose to run with based on friendships.
Raids change that dynamic – and not in a good way. This leads to the situation I and many others outline above in this thread.
And, again for a disclaimer – challenging content is a good thing. Almost no one is asking for that to go away. The answer is tiered difficulty – to bring back the OPTION of running the content based on friendships as well as the factors we see in raids now.
There we go, the nice/good dungeon group you are talking about, its the nice/good group that you created and leaded with guild members.
So how its different of you making your nice/good raid group???
Before you had meta PUG dungeon group. Now you have meta PUG raid groups.
Before you had your own any build dungeon group. Now you can still make your own any build raid group ( I do, and get kills with my healer revenant)I run successful raids every week. And we tried the above with others in the guild. For a couple of months, we were getting 50+ people together once or twice weekly and creating as many groups as we could.
It didn’t work for reasons pretty much everyone understands (but some want to ignore).
It didn’t work because most raid bosses have at least a soft “fast kill” mechanic as well as a number of other mechanics tuned around semi meta builds in full ascended armor sets being played by people who fully understand their professions. Yes, most enrages can be dealt with with a pro group in any gear, but that doesnt stand true for more casual groups (and Im pretty sure you know this).
There are a great number of builds/playstyles/etc that are simply not realistically viable in raids in casual groups. Are they viable in the hands of pro players with hours of experience – of course – but, again, that is not what we are talking about here.
Different people play the game for different reasons. Some play for the pure challenge (which again, is not something that we want to see go away). Some play for the friendships. Some play for the story experience. There is no way a single raid version can meet the needs of these diverse groups. The only answer is tiered difficulties.
And, to the argument of “so what – raids dont need to” – I would point people back to the whole point of this thread – and the myriad of reasons I, as well as people like Vayne, have explained pretty well, imo.
As i said in other post, show me this comp that you tried and didnt work, and only pros would make it work.
Because its not true, if its come and show the comp or stop telling lies just because people want rewards for no effort.
I’m really far away of being a pro and i play with 180-200 ping still manage to clear raids with many kinds of builds.
The only boss that you have a lot of options but not every single build is viable ( like 10 healing tempest ) are Sabetha and Gors because Gors insta kill everyone, and Sabetha will eventually destroy the platform.
With dungeons, there was always much more wiggle room. Any build and playstyle was reasonably (very important word) viable, no matter how far from the meta. Players that chose not to min-max could still enjoy the content while retaining some unique character identity.
Rose-tinted glasses, anyone?
Except it isnt about rose-tinted glasses – AT ALL. In the early game days, my guild had “dungeon days” every week in which we did them in guild groups (I remember this clearly because I was the one that set them up). We never once even stopped to consider what professions or builds people were bringing. At most, in EXTREMELY rare cases, we might have someone swap in a guardian on lupicus if the group was struggling, but, again that was very rare. We cared more about the attitude (eg friendly) of the player more than anything else.
Were they the fastest dungeon runs ever? Of course not – but we didnt care. We were having fun doing the content with people we chose to run with based on friendships.
Raids change that dynamic – and not in a good way. This leads to the situation I and many others outline above in this thread.
And, again for a disclaimer – challenging content is a good thing. Almost no one is asking for that to go away. The answer is tiered difficulty – to bring back the OPTION of running the content based on friendships as well as the factors we see in raids now.
There we go, the nice/good dungeon group you are talking about, its the nice/good group that you created and leaded with guild members.
So how its different of you making your nice/good raid group???
Before you had meta PUG dungeon group. Now you have meta PUG raid groups.
Before you had your own any build dungeon group. Now you can still make your own any build raid group ( I do, and get kills with my healer revenant)
I have to wonder how a judge would rule if you argued this was an invasion of privacy either under the Data rights protection act or the telecomunications act 2013 or even human rights act article 8 i.e my right to privacy in my conumications
not that im planing legal action but i do feel these dps meters skirt close to the edge in a grey area
Of course because someone knowing your virtual character data is invasion of privacy.
If someone start following your char in tyria you will call the cops because he is a stalker ?
Come one calling invasion of privacy because of dps meter is beyond ridiculous.
Next time you will want to arrest someone for PKing or for KSing
(edited by OnizukaBR.8537)