Guild Wars 2

Yeah it would help people train /s
Just look how many people can clear 100CM and not raids. None. All people that can clear 100CM clear raids.
And 100CM is just what you asking for. So 5 man raids will not make people better at raids, people that fail at raids will fail at 5 man raids.

Loved bounties, hope to see them as a worthy daily thing to grind gold. Even if its a bit worst then 40 fractal or AB.
Hope to see HP as a worthy daily activity too. Loved mounts. Loved unintified gear mechanic.

I bet that doing T2 is high level fractal for OP lol, or had done a T3 once. Everyone of my friends created a class that they never play at the demo ( just to play with something fresh) and they just steam rolling the instance without even knowing how to play the class. I really hope that this instance show the lowest difficulty we will get in the story. Because easier than this just make the story instance a drag.

Such a cry baby.
Just be happy that you have a strong currency, other country like South America or Central America has to pay a lot more because of the currency exchange.
And do you pay the same for your internet bill as the americans? No?
Do you pay the same for you meal ? No?
Do you pay the same to go to the movies ? No?
So accept that different country have different prices in everything, because wage, living prices are not equal, and if you use the same price in every country then you actually being unfair because you in EU have a lot more money than someone in Japan for example.
I would love to pay your EU price, but have your EU wage too.

How hard is to understand, dungeons are not a white elephant in the room because they are not being ignored without saying a word. They said that they wont make new dungeons, fractals are the new dungeon, and whats the difference between a one path dungeon and a fractal ?

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

xarallei.4279:

TexZero.7910:

Ranger (Soulbeast) Doubtful it can compete with druid without significant nerfs to druid first

It doesn’t have to compete with druid. Druid is good at what druid does, which is support. Soulbeast is not a support spec. Current condi ranger does not even use druid spec, so I’m guessing soulbeast will be the go to spec for condi rangers.

Sure and that’s fair, but the question then becomes about the changes to condi that are upcoming and if that knocks base condi ranger down enough to either Require Soulbeast or even have a spot.

Why not compaire soulbeast to any dps class instead of only compairing it to other ranger builds? Soulbeast might be a power dps on par with condi ranger so ye.. Also dont forget these condi nerfs happened to bring condi classes on the same lvl with power ones.

http://imgur.com/a/yOwJy Its actually a cond elite, look at traits 10% cond duration, poison and bleed on AA. So cond ranger meta will 100% sure use soul beast

Bad time to ask this. With the expansion around the corner and 9 new elite, the raid meta sure will take a hit. So maybe guardian will be part of the meta? We dont know, you should stick with the class you like for now.

You cant play hot content, it means W1-4 of raids, all LS3 maps, and HoT maps. Glide and HoT elites.
You can play with PoF new PoF maps, LS4, new raids that comes after PoF launch ( probably only after LS4 epi 1 the earliest ), Mounts and PoF elites.

Of course there will be new map events. Tell me a map in GW that doesnt have one???
And one of the new things are “Hunts” where you will hunt open world bosses for rewards.

You say in other games you dont need to change your setup. Of course not, tell me what you can change in FFXIV? Basically nothing, every paladin is the same, every white mage is the same. Same for WoW.
Now in GW you actually have build choices so for this reason you need to change it to suit the content you are aiming for.

How its underwhelming, instead of F1, F2,F3 doing something minimal it now give you a tome with 5 new skills. So its add a lot of more gameplay to the class.

Its common to not release new raids as soon as a new expansion hit, we probably will get a new raid at the launch of season 4 episode 1.
Just there is no announcement of new fractal etc..
Now its time for explore a new world. When season 4 hits we will start to see new fractals/raids.

Sublimatio.6981:

zealex.9410:

Theres a diff between action combat and simply never getting hit by anything because aegis blocks evades and distorts and therefor trivialising the encounter.

Compairing it to raids is the funniest because raids suffer from your meaning of “action combat” more than anything with blocks evades and distorts soaking all the dmg to the point where not bringing a healer makes sense.

1. It’s not trivialised encounter if you avoid death by actively playing and paying attention. What is trivialised is relying on passive heals where you don’t need to pay attention.

2. Raids have pulsing dmg you need to outheal and sometimes even other factors like on Matthias (conditions, undodgeable ghosts) so calling raids “action combat” is the funniest. Raids are just golem benchmarks with heal check.

Yes because raids you can stand still and dps you dont need to dodge: Seekers, blue circle, boss cleave, shake, smash, eggs, flaks, hadouken, red orbs…….. /s

Benjamin Arnold.3457:

Sublimatio.6981:

Why did you intend to damage players when they dodge the attack? That’s really unfair. When I dodge I expect to be protected from damage.

The designer who built that skill intended for it to be a guaranteed damage pressure to emphasize condi cleanse or heals.

I’m ok with undodge or unblockable skills. But I think would make the gameplay better if we got visual clues of a skill that is undodgeble, like instead of the red visual marker we get a light orange one ? (Or anything like that) So we know before hand that we cant dodge said skills.

LinhZeri.6412:

Only thing putting me off raids is not the difficulty but the lameness of the Puzzle like encounters (im sure better term for how they are.. I guess mechanic heavy as hell and require pinpoint practice which is a huge stresser if you mess up a lot simply due to latency of a pc) which are not my cup of tea.. They should of just made raids more of larger dungeons (not gw2s version of dungeons.. which is basically extreme stupid ai)which had more fodder and then a cool boss encounter. Guess my opinion but this game lacks actual non visual less stress encounters as if you screw up you get blamed (even if they don’t.. u know they thinking to themselves as they tend to talk a bit diff of frustration as THE NEW GUY IS HERE. just promotes toxic behavior). Now im not saying make it like dungeons as dungeons the AI are stupid as hell but it should be a good mix. Id like to kill some fodder (and prevent jumping by them by some obstructions perhaps but that I don’t know)

Maybe im the only one who feels the boss encounters are overly investing and after doing any of the raids you feel drained to hell. But I know people do like it as I got a friend who does. Basically im just here stating why I dislike raids (I wouldn’t care as much if it was wasn’t the predominate way ANet is releasing difficult content) but well this what they turned to…….. which is basically putting me off to PVE sadly. Fractals I dislike myself as the content is bland as hell and its the traditional dungeons we got here of a sitting mark and you just DPS it to death its very boring. I know my opinions wont change things but Im just saying how it would bring me to the raid scene. (A good example of what id like to see it he larger dungeons in guild wars 1 which were long, interesting… but you had fodder to kill to perhaps get some decent stuff on the way while doing interesting encounters.

But I do gotta love the comments to people with issues with the Raids and get stomped out defending it lol. God forbid others have opinions that don’t fit. If that many people are upset something is wrong.

So basically you dont like dungeons because its too easy, you dont like fractals because it just dps, and you dont like raids because it have mechanics. So you dont like easy things and you dont like hard things, you like nothing about the pve, maybe this is not the game for you them.

Solitude.2097:

The same argument existed in Dungeons + Fractals , where all the LFG lists had the same comment : ‘’only 80 , berseker , 8k achiv , food’’ and on the forums ppl where saying ‘’you know you can make your own casual lfg and take your time ’’
or ‘’the community uses Bersekers , because they want to clear it as fast as pisible , rather than wasting 2 hours’’

But what happend when they reduced the gold from dungeons and made Raids most rewarding content , compared to Fractals ?
In a magical way , without those L33T players the ’’Istanced’’ community became more friendly from the gear you wear , or how many times your head face the ground .
While the Raid community …. well …. lets say its summer atm and we dont know how may are playing it ….

Simply by reducing the gold rewards+Errage from HoT and keeping the same ammount+mechanic for the next expanion Raid , will do the trick .
Casuals will infest the HoT , and its their job to learn the mechanics without to worry is some1 L33T players is trigger happy to /kick them .
Or they reduce their shyness , from joining any Raids in the future expanion (dont believe so – now its 5% :P)

Yes reducing the reward will make more casual play the raid content /s
How you could think that giving people less reward would make more people play raids?? Or make veteran whilling to carry others? 0 logic

I want to say first that i loved the new fractal, full of mechanics and the new 100 CM is more challenging that wing 4.
But there is one thing that feel out of place, and this is the thing i want to talk about:
Agony debuff.
Yes the fights are harder with the agony debuff, but it is the same of give everyone a 50% dmg output reduction debuff. It make the fight harder by a non interactive non fun way.

In the past it made sense to have it so people not stacked and made everything a cake walk, but now with Nightmare and Shattered Observatory having a lot of fight mechanics there is no need to resort for this kind of things.

So GW fight design evolved, is now way better then before, and therefore should remove this old tool that is not needed anymore.

Raids are challenging and dont require this. Nightmare and Shattered have enough mechanics to be challenging without it.

Its way better this way a player that can do 100 fractal is much better prepare to raid. It make the transition way smoother.
And if you think its to ‘raidy’ just because it have interesting mechanics instead of a hp sponge boss, well i say we need more ‘raidy’ fractals then.

Solitude.2097:

I didnt say they should introduce an easy format Raid , nor nerfing the damage/patterns of the boss .
I am saying that transfering the l33t players to the next expansion , will leave a fragment of them in HoT .
And because they will too few , they will succumb to ’’relax’’ abit and dont request much ‘’high expectations’’ like the old Dungeons and Fractals (looking for 80 bersek + 8k achivment + food buff)

Also by removing the Enrage mechanic , that will leave the ’’future’’ small generation to not get l33t as fast as posible .
Well … until they will do the next expanion Raids that will have the Enrage mechianic…

And again the majority of the casuals , will strive for a more relaxed open world content in the next expanion . So they dont ’’pressured’’ about what the other will think or say to them if they fail .
Or the name ’’Raid’’ creates such a ‘’overhelming feeling’’ that you dont belong there , or you will get yelled

(ofc the highly chance that future elites specs will help you to rolfstomp the HoT raids if they are a focus of high telegraphed attacks ….. but they must give a ’’hint’’ this time in the pressentation …..
they must ’’devalue’’ them to be more approchable to the average joe… while leaving the Newly expanion prestigious ….
I dont know how they will do it , but i will enjoy their strugle /popcorn :P)

Worst idea i have ever heard.
Just because the population of raiders would be lower for older wings doesnt mean player would still want to play with the nomad bear bow ranger that misses every mechanic. They would prefer to low men it then carry a dead weight.

Roxanne.6140:

Vinceman.4572:

Astralporing.1957:

In general, if you are new to raiding, you either need a static group, or a lot of luck. Most new players won’t get either.

I disagree strongly, you just need to invest time and effort. Luck is on top of that and you can influence it with being nice & gentle to other people, well-prepared (guides, gear etc. pp.) and open-minded.
The most important thing: Be pro-active.

did you just assume I am not pro-active? did u also assume that the people who find it hard to find raids are not pro-active as well?

No, its actually 100% truth, a lot of players including me started when wing 3 was released, some even after wing 4, and it was not that hard to find group. You may be pro active in other areas of the game or your life, but if you think starting raiding you need a static or 100% lucky them i’m sure you are not pro active in the raiding part of the game.

Roxanne.6140:

The only thing challenging about raids is finding a raid. After that, the next challenge is providing for expensive foods. You see u know y? this is because you have to kill vale guardian 150 times before you are qualified to kill him 1 more time. it’s the same as passing the PhD exams 150 times before you can be a professor or passing the driving test 150 times before you are allowed at the wheels.

the absence of a good system to allocate for players interested to start raids is also another challenge. i can observe a ton of players who want to raid but are unable to because of how “challenging” it is.

I find this funny because its an exaggeration.
yes there are groups that want to play with exp people, but there is a lot of training runs and guild runs. And after very few kills on a boss if you are good you can easily join any group. But yeah people prefer to claim that you need 10000 kills thats why they cant raid.
While other people that start raiding and put some effort ( its not even that much , ), instead of complaining, are getting kills and reaching that pile of LI really easily.

Jockum.1385:

OnizukaBR.8537:

But why players dont get the same feeling from fractals? Because fractals is tiered content, and dungeons are not. And by not being tiered content they feel a lot more organic.

There are more reasons.
For example the rewards are identical. Why should I bother and play nightmare or chaos when I can also do snowblind, vulcano or jade?
Fractals are 2012 content. Most players have also stopped to play GW1. Fractals are as old as some GW1 content. Some new levels might improve the experience, but its still “the same”.
Fractals are also ~10-15 minute content. That’s a very limited amount. An 2 hour fractal doesn’t belong into this system.

But honestly I don’t think the whole debate makes any sense. Anet has shown that they don’t like casual groups. Players should either play solo open world or raids. There is no in between. If you are more casual and hope for teamcontent I’d recommend to buy another MMO and leave GW2 behind. Anet won’t change. It was the same with dungeons in 2012 which were also a bit more on the difficult side and left a lot of former GW1 players behind because there was nothing else to play together.
Since then Anet has made very clear that GW2 is mostly open world solo content and maybe a bit raids for the hardcore-teamcontent crowd. They give a kitten about casual guilds.

How there is no mid ground? Fractals are the mid ground, they have updates. And they are guild friendly.
I was not saying fractals are bad, they are not, but they are not organic like raids because they have tiered levels. If we only had one level of each fractals it would be much more organic, instead of having an easy nightmare at 25 and a hard at 100CM, we would have someting like urban batleground being an easy fractal and nightmare a hard one without tiers, they would have a much better feeling to it, like they make part of GW2 world

I can relate, i like most of ranger kit (especially GS and Axe) but never liked pet in any game. All we can hope is for an elite petless maybe next exp.

Blaeys.3102:

OnizukaBR.8537:

With “mathematical barriers to success” you mean the enrage? There is only two bosses that you cant fight then for 10 hours, Sabetha and Gorseval, both on wing 1, so besides this two encounters out of 13 encounters you cant go on with full nomads, all the other 11 encounters you can. (But even sab and gors are really lenient in what builds you can bring ). So no build limiting as you point.

Again, it is not a black or white, yes or no situation. It is about realistic degrees. And it isnt limited to enrage timers. It may come in the form of burst damage phases (short periods where much higher damage is needed to avoid a wipe or extreme negative situation) or other similar mechanics. As it stands, the fight is WAY more forgiving with groups that bring the “right” professions (and again, that is how it should be at the highest difficulty levels), and exponentially more frustrating for groups that do not (again, not absolutes – degrees).

Im just looking for a way for the “other” players to realistically (very important word) enjoy the content.

They wont enjoy the content by adding easy mode.
You know that topics about dungeons were really good and we dont get the same feeling from fractals? Wondered why?

Fractal are instanced content where you fight mobs, then fight bosses, with some mechanic between then ( like the snow torch run in Chaos ). Just like dungeons.
But why players dont get the same feeling from fractals? Because fractals is tiered content, and dungeons are not. And by not being tiered content they feel a lot more organic.
Raids are the same without tiered content they feel more organic and epic, they feel like they are part of the world of GW. If you make it tiered you just remove it and then it become 10 man fractals.

Blaeys.3102:

OnizukaBR.8537:

Blaeys.3102:

Up until the introduction of raids, this is something Anet clearly understood very well – and something they could fix with tiered levels of difficulty inside raids.

So lets discuss this statement.
You say that A-Net understood that you need tiered difficult until raids were introduced, Right?
So just explain to me, because i missed it, where is the Hard Mode of ascalon catacombs ?
Where is the hard mode shadow of behemoth ?
And where is the easy mode of Arah p4 and TA Aetherpath ?
So outside of fractals everything in the game always had only 1 mode. And should stay that way.
And before you say we have story dungeon and explorable mode.
Well we have scort on w4 and mathias in w2. The same comparison ( because story and explorable dont offer the same encounters, dont offer the same rewards so its not tiered difficuly dungeons).

It is about degrees and mathematic-based skill walls. None of the examples you cite above utilize any kind of mathematical barriers to success – with the possible exception of Simin during the brief period where that fight was overtuned (but even that was adjusted). As a result, there are no builds that cannot realistically overcome any of those fights, even in unskilled hands. It just makes the fights longer.

Regardless of how many videos you show of skilled players using off meta classes to beat the fights, the same isnt true in raids. Yes, the enrage timers and burst damage phases in the raids are not as strict as they could be, but they still exist – and help define the difficulty of the fights. And, for the record, I think that is fine in the more difficult modes.

The most difficult modes should be there for those looking for the challenge. That has never been in question as far as I am concerned. The inclusion of lesser difficulty modes would be there for those players who just want to experience the content without the dedication or with the professions they enjoy (and, of course, the rewards should be considerably less than what is given in harder modes).

With “mathematical barriers to success” you mean the enrage? There is only two bosses that you cant fight then for 10 hours, Sabetha and Gorseval, both on wing 1, so besides this two encounters out of 13 encounters you cant go on with full nomads, all the other 11 encounters you can. (But even sab and gors are really lenient in what builds you can bring ). So no build limiting as you point.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Being honest I like the current model. Bosses like Xera, Matthias, Deimos, and Sabetha are among my favorites because they require more strict coordination than the others, but I like having easier bosses with diverse mechanics, and then CMs for harder encounters when you want to push yourself. If very cool and prestigious rewards continue to be tied to CMs, much like Demon’s Demise, then they’ll still be great entries to the game going forward.

The only thing I wish they’d do is make the raid CMs have repeatable rewards like fractal CM100 so that more groups would run it regularly. It’s hard to convince my statics to run CMs all over again when they don’t offer anything special.

I like the current model too. But CM being repeatable would just segment raids, its the same that adding an easy mode, it does more harm then good. I think they should keep the one mode only, with CM being a one time thing.

Blaeys.3102:

Up until the introduction of raids, this is something Anet clearly understood very well – and something they could fix with tiered levels of difficulty inside raids.

So lets discuss this statement.
You say that A-Net understood that you need tiered difficult until raids were introduced, Right?
So just explain to me, because i missed it, where is the Hard Mode of ascalon catacombs ?
Where is the hard mode shadow of behemoth ?
And where is the easy mode of Arah p4 and TA Aetherpath ?
So outside of fractals everything in the game always had only 1 mode. And should stay that way.
And before you say we have story dungeon and explorable mode.
Well we have scort on w4 and mathias in w2. The same comparison ( because story and explorable dont offer the same encounters, dont offer the same rewards so its not tiered difficuly dungeons).

@Blaeys.3102
Just because some new player to raiding open a topic every few weeks doesnt mean it is relevant, without metrics.
Because a player that joins the game and dont care about raids wont post. A player who joins the game and enjoy raids the way they are wont post either.
So only people that want to change raids will open topics about a raid change, so this is why its not a relevant metric to use.
So “Oh look this topic again by a player so this proves that raid need easy mode!”, no its prove nothing.
And seeing how A-Net is handling other contents ( pvp and wvw ) and changing it in a way that you cant get it without actually investing in the gamemode ( looking at pvp dailies and wvw armor/weapons/backpack). I am pretty confident that there will not be an easy mode raids ever.

Kill shot you really should be able to move. And Gunflame could see a buff too, i would love if it removed boons on hit. It wouldnt affect PvE, and in PvP it would be a great team tool.

Huskyboy.1053:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Its not unbeatable, I faced some of them and eventually people figure out that they can’t really sustain focus fire after blowing through defense CDs like UA, ward rift and crystal hibernation.

It is however a very solid decap comp in 1v1 situation since you get 450 range knockback (240 range AoE) every 3-5s. This number is not just in theory, most bunker rev running ventari in 1v1 will actually attempt knockbacks at that frequency unless they’re using aforementioned CDs against your burst. You also don’t have much ways to kill them unless blowing your CDs as the amount of fragments generated from that explosion is able to heal up to 5k hp or more. Ultimately these mean that the rev can force 1v2 at far etc to relieve teamfight pressure.

Guard or mes can probably prevent decap from them, but other meta builds don’t have enough blocks/evade/stab to avoid being knock out. Other way to counter would be to have thief capping their home if the rev decides to stay that node, though that rev probably have terrible map awareness if it comes to that.

Like I said, 2 revs. Meaning they can control 2 nodes pretty consistently outside of 4-5 man zergs crushing them.

But if they got 2 ventari rev, all you need to do is hold home and mid, dont need to get far. And with a Necro is easy to 2v1 the rev as they can get stab off so you can CC them and burst him down.
Ventari got a really good healing and the CC is annoying but they got the worst damage by far. So its basically a 5v3 as both ventari cant kill anyone.

ButterPeanut.9746:

And the players who actually play to win are the toxic ones…smh

Yeah just like with raids, the toxic ones are the people trying to get the kills, not the ones joining without a care about the other 9 people and wanting to be carried no questions asked.
This mentally of “we want everything handled to us, everybody who doesnt aggre is toxic and i will do anything to make their game time worse!”

I think a good fix would be:
- When duo queing if one player has a 1000 rating and the other have 1500, make the queue consider both player as 1500 rating, so it doesnt matter how low the other is, it will always be matched with people with skill of the higher rating.
- Second if a duo dc make the duo that still in the match take a heavy loss too ( not the others of the team ), yeah i know sometime your mate may really dc by accident, but if he dc all the time you shouldnt be duo with him.

runeblade.7514:

If I can’t join a raid without being kicked, then it isn’t really forgiving.

If you join a group with certain demands that you dont have of course you will be kicked, and its not a raid problem. If I doing fractal 100 cm run exp / pots/ food and you join without the title and pots and food of course i will kick you the same with raids.
You wanting to force yourself in other people groups without take in consideration what people are asking for is the problem not the raids.

runeblade.7514:

Draco.9480:

maybe learn how the game works?

I would love to learn how the raid bosses work if the groups let me join them.

Well join a learning group aka training run group. Exp group is not for learning is just to get the boss down with exp people.

Solstace.2514:

Feanor.2358:

Joxer.6024:

@ fearnor..
“Get it already – it’s the people who are toxic, not the tools, not the game modes, the people. I fail to understand why so many are having problems grasping such a simple concept.”
yea, with that I do agree.
“So the tool doesn’t serve me to call others – I’ve never done that, not on a single occasion – but to help me and my group get smoother and more enjoyable experience.”
And yea, I wish everyone used them as such. I mean in WOW you got kicked for low dps, period. You go improve and try again. Its just a shame many others cant be like you in that respect.

Well… what can I say, it’s the people problem again. You just shrug and find others to play with. I get easily triggered by the “dps meters are evil” notion because I’ve seen all the toxicity they are supposed to create before they became a thing.

I’ve found them to be a double edged sword. They are great for personal improvement but are often used out of context. Take vale guardian. Some players have roles besides damage – green circles, etc. – that take them away from dishing out constant dps or away from group boons.

DPS meters are great, let me give you my last week example:
I was pugging Gors, on the lfg it was “Gors exp – No updraft” i joined it as a cond reaper, there was another cond reaper on the group.
Ok we go in fail to phase gors at 67, then we fail again at 37, this go on for 5 tries. People get upset, someone is really lying about being exp.
Without meters what would happened? Me and the other reaper would get kicked, because you know, necros are the bottom of dps. (The other reaper on subgroup 1 was top dps by a good margin).
But them i looked at the meter and see my dps is not that great, its lower then my usual and i was doing my rotation nice without going down. So I use another tab of the dps meter that a lot of people forget, the boons duration, and i see that the PS warrior on my subgroup had 8k dps while giving only 10 might, and my chrono had only 30% quickness and 20% alacry uptime in a fight we stick together while doing 1k dps and not distorting last Gors pool.
I dont know if both of them are exp or not, or not doing the rotation right or not having the right gear; It doesnt matter because its an exp run they should know their role, if they had good boon duration and ok DPS it wouldnt matter the build or rotation that their are running.
I point it to the raid leader, he kick both, another PS and Chrono join, and we one shot Gors.
Without DPS meter the reapers would be kicked, and the group would still fail and disband without knowing why. DPS meters are so good for raiding that it should be a in game tool for raids.

Astralporing.1957:

Feanor.2358:

Raid rewards need to be exclusive to create a drive for players to play them again and again. The content is great, but even the greatest content gets exhausted if you have no reason to go back to it. See dungeons for instance.

Dungeons were totally fine without that exclusive content. It definitely wasn’t for dungeon exclusive skins that people were running them. It’s not for fractal skins that people are running fractals now (even the legendary backpack likely has only minimal impact fractal popularity).

So, why exactly raids need to have the drive that so surpasses the same for dungeons and fractals? It’s not like they are (again, supposedly) any more important of a content, right?

Dungeon and fractals dont have exclusivity but they have a lot of gold per time spent. If they remove the exclusivity of armor from raids they would need to increase the gold by miles.
And not all content need to give gold for rewards. Having exclusive rewards is healthy because if all content only gives gold people would choose the one that give more and ignore the other. See why dungeons are most dead now and fractals are very alive.

HP you mean Hero Points? The ones with champion mobs are the most fun ones, if they need to change are the ones that you do nothing and just get to the point to get it.
And as said a million of times there are very very few that you need a group, 90% of them are easily soloable.

Astralporing.1957:

Sly.9518:

Hmm yet I was in a group with 9 new players that completed the raid in 5 attempts, yeah such a long time, so many attempts

Well, lucky you. Your experience is not really representative of the community however.

If it was, noone would bother with LFG restrictions. They wouldn’t have been necessary.

TexZero.7910:

LS1 was temporary event based story driven content that had unique rewards most of which is either able to be purchased via the BLTC, or for laurels.

Yes. There are also text, video and cinematic sources describing it. And yet requests for it to be brought back return on a regular basis. And story is the main reason cited.

If your assumptions were true, no such requests would appear. And yet they do.

You are compairing content that people say they cant acess because they dont want to invest time with content that people cant acess because its not in the game.
That invalidates all your argument and if you cant see how failed is your comparison then there is nothing more to discuss.

Essence Snow.3194:

I don’t think you read the post b4 responding.

Who say raiders want a nightmare mode? Raider dont want difficulty slider.
Dont want easy mode, dont want nightmare mode. So no it wont benefit the two end of the spectrum.

Astralporing.1957:

Feanor.2358:

I’m pretty confident the vast majority of the players can handle them – remembering and executing – if they made the effort.

Oh, i agree. It’s the time necessary for it that’s up for the question. Vast majority of players won’t be able to do learn VG in 5 attempts, 45 minutes, like in the example Sly gave. Not even close. Any group capable of that is way, way above the average.

Sly claiming that this is the average skill level of the GW2 community does not make it true.

That is what i was arguing against.

Why its way above average??
You say he cant claim the average skill level of GW2, while you do the same?
So its only valid if its support your side

Let me say this, Dark soul series, the new zelda are all way harder then GW2 raids, and they sold million of copies, so maybe the average skill level of the gamers are not bad as you say.
Or maybe they are? We dont know, so stop using this argument.

But without this argument you dont have an argument at all to support why raids should move their original goal right?

Absurdo.8309:

Blaeys.3102:

Absurdo.8309:

Blaeys.3102:

Absurdo.8309:

On the flip side, I don’t feel like a hero in the living story, because it’s too easy. Where’s the hard mode draconis mons?

There’s plenty of content to go around. It sounds selfish when you request that every single piece of lore cater to every player.

Plus, this is some side lore, not even the main story of guild wars 2.

First, it most definitely isnt selfish. Your example is faulty. The difference between Draconis Mons and the raids is that the Draconis Mons experience is not exclusionary in any sense. The same cannot be said of of the raid experience where off builds or playstyles result in extreme levels of frustration. And, if there were a way to include harder content in open world in a way that made sense, I would be all for it.

Second, there is no such thing as side lore. That is a semantic distinction one developer tried to float to justify exclusionary design – nothing more. These are stories that take place in the world of Tyria and involve characters/settings/etc in that world. And, they are stories players are interested in experiencing – that is what really matters. You could just as easily call all of the stories in the game side stories since there are several story arcs that have started or played out since the game started.

It’s 100% exclusionary. I don’t get the hero vibe from that content, so I’m excluded from being a hero.

Sure, I could get the lore from pressing 1 through the content, but that’s not the same as experiencing a heroic adventure.

… or, maybe it’s ok that guild wars 2 has a lot of content across all experience levels. Different strokes for different folks.

When you’re kicked from the map for playing a toon you enjoy, then you can call it exclusionary.

You are trying to make this a this or that/black and white argument (with failed sarcasm) when it really isn’t.

An MMO isnt a linear storyline where we follow the hero down a preset path. Instead, it is a living world and environment built around two things – the individual player and the community. It is ArenaNet’s task to make the player and the community feel like the main focus of that world – the heroes of Tyria.

Raids have taken that away from a segment of the population. That build and playstyle that Sarah put hours of love and attention into making uniquely hers felt like that hero. Now, with the addition of restrictively designed raids, that character is a second class hero – able to take on and defeat all of the terrors of the world – except for the worst of the worst.

I know there are a lot of people that don’t play that way – that take min-maxing and being the highest performing character possibly very seriously. And there is nothing wrong with that. There should be content that pushes their limits.

But for the others – for players like Sarah – the current game environment is shattering that sense of epic heroism. And that is both disheartening and un-fun.

So, yes, you can be the best of the best in the game. Have fun min maxing and pushing the math of the game to the limits. But, please realize that there are other kinds of players out there as well – an entire community of players that need that immersive heroic feel (even if you don’t). It is about realizing the world doesnt revolve around a single kind of player – that, ESPECIALLY at end game and ESPECIALLY in the are designed to provide the most epic experience – varying levels of accessibility are critical to the game’s success.

You are, again, ignoring the other side.

Content can be too easy. Raids and fractals keep me in the game, not the living story or the new maps. Because that content is too easy and boring. 100% serious here, I am absolutely excluded from some of the easy content, because it’s so boring I can’t bring myself to play it.

But I don’t demand that every piece of content have a hard mode variant. I recognize there are players who like this content. I say good on them.

But your position is selfish. All content must be easy.

I’m actually fine with easy mode raids, with no rewards. But only if: (1) the living world team works on it, or (2) the raid team gets more members to offset the work involved.

But I don’t think your hypothetical players want that.

Finally, no one is excluding people from the content. You can go in right now. Nothing is stopping you.

You have the same feelings as me, content being exclusive for being to hard so some people cant bring themselves to “get better” the opposite is true as well, content being too easy so people like you and me cant bring themselves to bear with the boredom of said content so we cant play it either.

So the people saying that all content should be easy are being selfish, they want all the content for themselves.

Having 15 tears and complaining its the same that stepping on the black goo and complaining that you cant kill deimos because of it.
Your group is ignoring one of the fight mechanic, the deimos tears, you need to pick it up so you dont have 15 tears.

Vinceman.4572:

jheryn.8390:

That is just in no way true. Anet built raids to be the most difficult content in the game. It isn’t guessing or speculating about it, that is literally why they were built to give elite players a platform.

And as far as players “not wanting to learn”, that is rubbish. Maybe not 100%. There are several people I know that can pull off dungeons. They have been taught and have tried, ad nauseum, to participate in raids. They have been through dozens of tries in the raids and they simply cannot pull it off. They want it bad, but by their own admission, cannot do it. Calling people ‘lazy and ’unwilling’ is not really understanding players who are not as skilled as you.

In what way they can pull of dungeons? Pressing key numero uno and getting carried by the rest of the 5-man-group?
Because I call it rubbish that a player who can run Arah without any problems will struggle at Escort, or Mursaat Overseer, Samarog, VG, Trio and Cairn.
Yesterday night we carried 4 ppl through Cairn and MO and they had 0 clue of those bosses before. Earlier we killed VG 3 new players with a short explanation only.

Of course raids are hard at the beginning but after a few weeks 8 out of 13 bosses are solid kills.

Yes his explanation make 0 sense, i mean the player can dodge attacks and do mechanics on arah like the boss that does an green attack that snares you and grow a poisons tree ( the one with the gorillas ) , but for some reason cant dodge a blue circle on VG? its literally the same thing press dodge button, dodge the green/purple/rainbown color attack, boon you are done.

Blaeys.3102:

OnizukaBR.8537:

I think i will post this video anytime anyone complain about enrage and build diversity on raids:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/140375798

If 10 man PUGS! turrent enginer can raid, anyone with anybuild can, if you cant i bet the problem isnt your build, but you failing to do mechanics, and if you cant even fail mechanics after doing mistake after mistake where is the fun in the game? You cant always win no matter what you do, if you could that would be the dullest game ever

You’re talking about a single raid encounter (that doesn’t utilize a true enrage) that admittedly was tuned as an intro fight (and that doesnt use an enrage resembling the rest of the raids in any real way) – using gimmick builds that are a known issue – to exemplify the raid scene in GW2.

To explain what you’re actually watching in that video – turret builds allow for continual damage output in low AOE damage (from the enemy) scenarios where the actual player needs to move in and out of range a lot. In other words, the mechanics of this particular fight allow players to exploit features in ways that generate more damage output than balance intended. It was a smart move by whoever set it up, but it isn’t indicative of anything other than a strong understanding of the fight mechanics combined with how turrets work.

Groups will always come up with creative ways to do things like this – and then people who dont understand what is actually going on will try to use those as justifications for debating against accessibility features. It’s a good thing, but it doesnt equal build diversity. You can post it all you want to try and prove a point, but it is a faulty representation.

That said, I will say that how they designed Cairn is a step in the right direction as it pertains to a lower difficulty encounter – a direction they should probably take even further with every future raid boss if they continue to resist the idea of a story mode.

All i read are excuses trying to justify only turret eng ( they were only using turret nothing else ) as a valid strategy, when it is clearly a joke build.
Any build can clear raids, but sure turret enginer is actually a good build and therefore they killed cairn lol.
So yeah raids have a clear build barrier /s

It would be an easier solution just add agony infusion for every level 80 exotic item, then agony still have value and is easier to gear alts.
But i actually like the current system because we dont have many things to go for gear wise, so having somethings not super easy is good in my vision.

I think i will post this video anytime anyone complain about enrage and build diversity on raids:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/140375798

If 10 man PUGS! turrent enginer can raid, anyone with anybuild can, if you cant i bet the problem isnt your build, but you failing to do mechanics, and if you cant even fail mechanics after doing mistake after mistake where is the fun in the game? You cant always win no matter what you do, if you could that would be the dullest game ever

jheryn.8390:

Feanor.2358:

jheryn.8390:

What is unfair about that is that many PvE players that are casual, role players, and play for the lore/content they will never be able to experience the lore/content in raids because they will never be at the play skill level required.

That specific argument seems pretty moot. There’s a lot of lore/story in explorable dungeons. I highly doubt said players will make it through Arah or TA Aetherblade either. And these have been around for years.

Not true. Arah and TA are both cakewalks compared to any raid area. I’m a raider and I like dungeons. Some of my guildmates are those people that will never be at the level to handle raids. On both Arah and TA I have grouped up with these people and we mostly breeze through. Even the hardest dungeon content is easy compared to raids.

Some of these people have also tried to raid with my group and they just don’t have the skill level to contribute to the group and no amount of healing is able to keep them alive. Many would probably be capable players, but they have lives and families that don’t allow them to spend large amounts of time in game.

Most of them, however, are players from the start of GW1 and love the story, history, and lore of the game. And my previous comments are due to my knowledge that these people are disappointed in not having any access to that lore.

I really doubt a group of people can breeze thorught arah p4 and TA and at same time find raid way to difficult.
But if its true i know probably the reason, they runned a lot of dungeons, failed a couple of times, until they got used to it and breeze thought.
Guess what??? After failing a couple of times in raids you will breeze thought it just like TA and arah p4. Who would knew that you get better if you try, instead of giving up without trying :O

Actually i was thinking about toughness/vitality i think the only way to make it interesting is if they tie some kind of scalling to these status as damage bonus. Like lets say a skill that have a 1.2 power scalling, we could get a skill that have 0.4 toughness as bonus damage or a skill that sacrifice your hp and deal 10x the hp sacrified as bonus dmg.
Just like some mobas have with different kind of scalling damage.

But as passive damage reduction, there is nothing they can do about it without making something trivial and non interactive, which is very boring.

Because raids are so difficult and strictly in their design:
So this is clearly a video edit and not true:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/140375798
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM5UHfnCDNM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gABRTxhXwiY&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9CKhI_g7ng

So how can you defend that raids are a dps checking really hard game mode after all these proof?
I doubt anyone have a prof thats raids are too hard, but there are plenty that they are actually easy and you can play whatever you want.

How you were a raid leader if you think raids in GW2 are difficult? Everyweek you see post of something like 10 man turret eng, 10 man naked ( So how you need to be highly equiped again ? ) , 10 man guardians, 9 man only healers… all kind of funny comps for fun that clear the bosses.
So i can conclude two things with your post:
1 – You are lying about being a raid leader on another game
or
2 – You are not lying about your exp but you created this thread before even giving a serious attempt on raiding on GW2.