Guild Wars 2

New movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srVjbeb99qc

3-7vN

Skarloc.2569:

We’re outnumbered in almost every single one of those fights, save one. I’m not sure what this video was supposed to prove, Oozo. You guys consistently have as many, if not more, of your own group, plus adds. This is also not all the fights that have occurred between us, many of which were fairly one-sided. I understand you not wanting to show all the footage, but just showing small bits and pieces of what really goes on doesn’t prove a point. In fact, we’re still being outnumbered in the videos, so once again, what are you trying to prove?

I for one am looking forward to a different match-up. BP has always zerged, and that’s fine, but we were hoping we would get good fights from DR. We kill you guys once and the rest of the night it becomes a numbers game, and that’s if you guys even come out. Two nights ago we specifically went looking for you guys and you dodged us to go zerg in EB. Tried to fight EDGE and they refused to fight us because “We’re too bunkery”, despite the fact that none of us are bunker builds. It’s annoying to have to chase down people to get a decent fight in this game. If you don’t want to fight us, just tell us and we’ll stay away. For guys that once prided themselves at roaming fights, you want nothing to do with us unless you have a clear numbers advantage.

I really didn’t want to believe what our friends from NSP were saying. They told us if we beat you guys, we’d never see them with a force our size or smaller again, and it’s played out exactly that way. It’s just disappointing, because I know you guys have some talented players.

Did you read everything I posted there? I acknowledged at the very top that you were typically outnumbered. I stated the video is just to show that at no point were we ever running 8-10 as was stated on the forum. It was also posted to show that you did indeed engage us while we were fighting other people a few times, which you said you didn’t. Correcting the record is not the same thing as flaming or insulting you. I even acknowledge at the bottom that you’ve won the clean fights that we have had. Did you see that part? I’m not understanding the hostility here.

We lost some fights one night and the next night we were fighting you again with 5. The numbers we have with us just depend on who is online. We don’t exclude people.

The decision to run with NoQQ and BSty that one night had nothing to do with you but instead we did it because we happened to run across them and Larks from NoQQ who hasn’t been online in several weeks was there so we ran with them a bit for that reason. After we were done doing that we were back in the BLs with 5 for several hours.

I should have sent you a tell explaining that. But, I really didn’t want to get into internal decisions and having to explain everything we do. If we don’t run with NoQQ and BSty at times then the alliance dies which I would rather not happen since I like a lot of the people in both guilds. That was more important to me at that moment than fighting you. Sorry about that.

Bllade.1029:

You guys are rediculous.

Irony. :P

Azaruil.3406:

Oozo dude, you put way too much effort into that. :p

We had 9 in that camp and you had 7. You can’t expect us to know who is and isn’t on voice comms with you, especially if they were sticking that closely with your group. You guys made us run in circles around the camp after you, and while your reason may have been that skills were on cd or something, to us it simply looked like you were trying to avoid a fight, which is why we aggro’d the npcs as bait.

We went straight to your spawn after hoping for another fight, and if you added 2-3 to your group then it would have been great. We weren’t simply going to stand and watch you at the center island just so that you can kill others because you have an advantage over them while avoiding to fight us because you didn’t have a clear advantage over us.

That is how it appeared to us and while it may not have been the case then, having come across you guys a few times since then it is a fairly safe assumption to make, that you will only fight us if you have a clear advantage. Perhaps this is due to some words traded on the forums or a matter of pride, but it is a shame regardless as we would have enjoyed squaring off against you guys more often. You guys are tougher than the zerglets running around and it would have made good practice.

ps: don’t take this post in an insulting or trollish manner as it isn’t either.

I had to put this much effort into it because of the things that have been stated that are just factually incorrect. No hard feelings. I know that appearances can be deceiving. Like in the camp. We were still fighting BP when you entered the camp. We actually finished off the last two behind those buildings on the plateau as you were coming down the other side. We then rotated to the front to try to put the fight in as much as advantageous position as we could. If we were running away from you we just would have left out of the front of the camp while you were all the way in the back.

A nonbuffed supply camp isn’t going to help us win a 7v9 when the 9 are on voice and only 4 of us are. Hell, we kill twice our number of PuGs sometimes in a camp when they have a buffed supervisor on their side.

And, I’m not sure why you think us 4v5ing PAXA would be a clear advantage for us but whatever. :P

We have tag-a-longs that stick to us quite often for obvious reasons. We can’t do much about that. Some of the tag-a-longs are good and contribute. Others, I just don’t know.

We weren’t simply going to stand and watch you at the center island just so that you can kill others because you have an advantage over them while avoiding to fight us because you didn’t have a clear advantage over us.

I really don’t get that statement. That was right after you added into a 5v10 and turned it into a 5v19 where there were four of us and some guy from TRON that we don’t know. GJ saving the 10 HoD we had a clear advantage over I guess? :P

Here is a more standard movie done for entertainment. It’s a collection of 3vNs to 7vNs against mostly BP. Some of this is against 15-20+ BP.

Oozo.7856:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnQguIDQo1I

- continued.

6. There are 6 of us in voice, but only 5 in the ruins. One is separated. Here you hit us shortly after we were fighting some of the BP from the previous clip. That is why we are spread out and some of my key cooldowns are not available. You also had an extra from your side from GT. I think we had one other DR in the area as well though. You rolled us pretty hard here. There was another fight similar to this one where you hit us almost immediately as we were coming off of a fight with BP and you rolled us hard there as well.

7. Here we had 6 with three other DR in the area. Before the HUGE DR zerg comes in and ruins the fight there were also 2 PHZE, 2AR, and one other HoD involved in the fight. I had to edit out some of my comments after the DR zerg added as it’s NSFW or for small children to hear. I even used the “f” word. :x

8. This was a 6v5 for us. It was a good fight with downed on both sides until the DR adds came in. Very frustrating.

9. Here is where we split off and go AD only. There were five of us with one other DR in the area. In the middle of fighting you we actually had to go down and kill two BP that were harassing us from behind. We also had the HoD camp guards on us. It’s kind of insulting for some of you to say you never saw us running less than 8. You make it seem like you were always fighting us while outnumbered and at a disadvantage. :/

10. Here we have 5 with 3 other DR and the PAXA group has 4 with 3 other HoD. This was portrayed as 4 PAXA versus 8 AD? You are counting DR adds into our numbers but not counting HoD adds into yours. I don’t think it’s intentional, because as I said before, I typically don’t know what really happened until after I review the footage.

On a side note, our DR adds were MUCH better than your HoD adds in that fight. Adds can have a huge outcome on how the fight turns out obviously. Sometimes they have zero impact on the outcome, but when you have competent players there they can have a huge impact on the fight.

11. Collateral damage. Sorry about that KoM engineer dude!

Now with all of that said and done, of the fights that I consider “clean fights” against PAXA they have won. A couple of them were really good fights and they are stronger than us 5v5. However, we don’t run a preset group. People play whatever they feel like playing that night.

I do plan to post a vid with two of those fights, but time might be an issue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnQguIDQo1I

Wasn’t going to post it because it didn’t seem necessary after the dust settled but I said I would so I kind of have to now Again, this isn’t to call anyone out for anything because, as I mentioned before, when I go back and look at the footage the reality of what happened quite often doesn’t match up with what I thought was happening when it happened. And, I certainly don’t want to kick a hornet’s nest. Very seldom are there true “clean fights” in WvW. There is often a numbers difference. Sometimes you hit people as they are coming off of another fight and key cooldowns are down. This goes both ways, but you were typically outnumbered due to DR adds.

The movie is sped up because all I’m doing is showing the numbers we ran with and how it evolved throughout the evening and why Stylii made the post he did. I think I said before that we had no more than 6 running (and by that I mean – on VOIP with us). I was wrong about that, we had 7 shortly before Saguzar and myself split off to join friends from AD who had just logged on.

1. We had four on voice but only three of us were there at the start of the fight. There were 3-4 other DR there and we were fighting 10+ GOAT and BP. We were wearing them down slowly and winning when PAXA hit the BP. By the time PAXA hit there were about 8 DR but only 4 of us. We didn’t hit you as you were fighting GOAT, we had already been fighting them for sometime.

2. KoM had 10 chasing us in the supply camp. We had 4 on VOIP and three other DR around. We saw them come in and moved to the back and then rotated around. We were still fighting BP when they entered the camp and we had to clear the BP that were still alive back there before engaging you. We rotated to the front of the camp while they were at the back of the camp looking for us. We could have just left. We knew they had numbers on us.

Implying that we were cowards running away from the fight and the only reason we engaged you is because you pulled the camp is kind of insulting. There was no buff on the camp. We engaged a 10 man guild group with 4 people and 3 other DR outside of the group knowing we would lose. Again, we could have just left and not given you a fight at all.

3. Here we had 4 and one DR tag-a-long. We were fighting around 10 HoD when the same 10 KoM hit us while fighting. Now, this is WvW and that’s fine but you were the guys that were complaining about BP doing this to you on a larger scale just a few days earlier. :/

Shortly after this, 4 of us were returning to ruins and noticed the PAXA group on the bridge to the south camp. Just as we were moving in to engage them in a 4v5 we noticed the 10 man KoM group coming up behind us. They were headed straight to our respawn to hunt down 4 of us with 10? Anyway, we had to pull out and we left the map. Sorry PAXA, we weren’t running away from a fight with you there.

4. There are 4 of us. We were behind you watching you fight 15+ BP at the bridge to hills. We could have hit you from behind but it would have been a kitten move, IMO. I do have a code, but I don’t expect other people to follow it. I don’t like piling on and I certainly wouldn’t have liked it if a group hit me from behind while I was fighting 15+ people so I didn’t do it to you. BSty and NoQQ are more of the “red is dead” philosophy (which is actually the way WvW is intended to be played). My frustration at the end is that only a few minutes after we did not interfere with you, you hit us while we were fighting others at the tower and low health while taking arrow carts to the face.

BTW, I very much did notice that you didn’t hit us while fighting others when you had the opportunity to do so the following days.

5. We are running with 6 but one was seperated. We engaged 8ish PHZE. You add in to the fight. Now, I know it’s awkward standing around while your teammates are fighting and losing. You run the risk of them getting very upset at you for not helping. Understood there.

.

Noodica.5428:

I felt quite bad for DR and HoD.. Failing that double team on our SM and keep must have been pretty kitten embarrassing.

I feel quite bad for BP in that, for the most part, they are absolutely horrible in the open field. You guys still lose 5-7v20+ in the open field because you let yourself get kited and your overextenders get killed until you no longer have enough people to win by numbers alone and that is when you get turned on and killed by groups a third your size.

Gahzirra.8639:

osif.8673:

I think I’ve watched his vids. Good Mesmer. I don’t think I recall him killing 10 people all by his lonesome, though.

Never said kills em all in 1 go but he does 1v10 and in one video he jumps a group at the supply camp granted he had others with him but he was first one in by a good amount and most were killed in his intial burst.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_kuGnAYDK8

Then you didnt watch all his Vids, watch ^^^ where he is mad cause he got killed by a large group and they spammed laughing at him, he takes revenge 30+ kills to his 1-2 deaths. yes he does take on a huge amount they even try to portal bomb him.

So, he jumps into ten people by himself and kills most of them in his opening burst? Guess the AoE cap doesn’t apply to this guy then.

He also appears to be getting his revenge with a group of people with him.

Gahzirra.8639:

Npac.3476:

Zel-To begin,when a small man complains about the Zerg mentality that permeates this game, they are not in fact “whining” about dying. Instead, they are calling out a “tactic” that focuses on overwhelming force of numbers in order to replace actual skill.

Some servers are bigger than others, what a small server may consider a Zerg may be a skirmish squad against a t1 server. You cannot say people are hiding behind Zerg and have no skill its stupid. What are they supposed to do say “alright guys we are facing a smaller force I want half of you to either not Q or when we do get in an engagement please draw straws to see who will be sitting out”? /facepalm

Why were there 20-30 BP guarding a single supply camp from 7 people in a zone that was completely their’s with no significant enemy forces in it?

Npac.3476:

Lets take a closer look: [snip]

I actually agree with the sentiment in that post. There is a big difference in killing someone 5v1 just because you happen to cross paths or killing some people 10v5 that you just happen to run across and intentionally hunting down one person with 5 and killing them repeatedly or intentionally hunting down a group of 4 or 5 with 10+.

We’ve had this done to us. We never do that to anyone else.

Skarloc.2569:

After a certain point you do have to count them though. If it’s just one or two random people who are terrible, then absolutely. If it’s 3-4 people who have somewhat of a clue, it becomes a clear edge, and it’s not even close. Having extra people throwing out random attacks, rezzing people, tossing out AoE’s, etc. is a lot to handle when it’s only 4-5 people against an already larger organized group.

I’m not saying it’s been 5v15, but it’s become a numbers game in several fights. Again, I know you don’t control what the adds can do, and it’s frustrating for us when adds jump in as well. However, it’s one thing to have one of our guys jump in mid fight compared to knowing full well that you’re gonna have adds who are going to jump in from the start. We have been avoiding the latter.

Oh, I agree. Obviously, in many cases, the extra people are a benefit. But, sometimes they are just a rally magnet for the other team. Another thing I’ve noticed is that the friendly tag color of teal can be really hard to notice when in a fight. Red is always easier to notice.

;)

On this topic, how should the last fight we had at ruins tonight be interpreted?

For DR: 5 AD, 2 RegA, 1 DDLG
For HoD: 3 PAXA, 1 KoM, 1 CATZ, 2 FSB

We were not running with RegA or DDLG (they just happened to be there), but Subcrazy (who was there) is saying that we (AD) had 8. Can I say that you had 7 then?

There seems to be a double-standard being applied to us. ;(

Skarloc.2569:

Oozo, I have no beef with you and never have. I agree with a lot of what you say on a lot of different topics, but I’ve got no reason to lie when it comes to this.

I don’t think anyone is lying. When I go back and look at footage, sometimes I’m amazed about how much my perception of the fight as it was happening does not match up with the reality of what really happened.

I’ll post some footage. Not to call anyone out or something like that but just so you can see our numbers from our side.

Skarloc.2569:

Oozo.7856:

subcrazy.1098:

Zizanzi.4678:

Snow Ghost.6817:

Jscull.2514:

It is beyond mildly embarrassing that we have fought ONE guild under 10 players this week. Graduate from zerg school already, challenge yourselves past relying on 15+ people to stay alive.

We did attempt to engage you tonight but we pulled a lot of others with us.

We aslo did try to stay out of your fights with the AD and NOQQ guys but some of the people following jumped in.

I am sorry for this but sadly, this is the way of things. If they aren’t in the guild and on on TS, it’s hard to stop them.

/salute

I wouldn’t be sorry nor apologize for it Lorek, nor stop them. Pretty much all night my little group only had 4 (1 BSTY/2 NoQQ/1 AD) and at one point got up to 6. Numerous times we would be fighting small unit stuff or against a zerg only to be added in on by KOM and/or PAXA when fighting enemies. They didn’t hesitate to add in so you shouldn’t either. They continue the advocation for small man but no honor of honoring those that are fighting small man on their part so why should anyone honor leaving their small man fights alone on our side when they add in themselves all the time no matter the circumstances.

Zizanzi (Stylii)
(NoQQ) Leader
ADNoQQBsty Alliance

Sorry but we never seen any AD or noqq with less then 8 tonight.

You can’t be serious. :/

We ran into groups of 5-6 early in the night, but those numbers grew to 8+ for the rest of the night.

I typically don’t count tag-a-longs as part of an organized group’s numbers since they have no control over that and since they aren’t on voice they can actually be more of a hindrance than a help (as you already know).

While I was running with the mixed group we never had more than 6. When I switched to run with AD we had 5. I did take about a 30 min break in between that switch, though.

subcrazy.1098:

Zizanzi.4678:

Snow Ghost.6817:

Jscull.2514:

It is beyond mildly embarrassing that we have fought ONE guild under 10 players this week. Graduate from zerg school already, challenge yourselves past relying on 15+ people to stay alive.

We did attempt to engage you tonight but we pulled a lot of others with us.

We aslo did try to stay out of your fights with the AD and NOQQ guys but some of the people following jumped in.

I am sorry for this but sadly, this is the way of things. If they aren’t in the guild and on on TS, it’s hard to stop them.

/salute

I wouldn’t be sorry nor apologize for it Lorek, nor stop them. Pretty much all night my little group only had 4 (1 BSTY/2 NoQQ/1 AD) and at one point got up to 6. Numerous times we would be fighting small unit stuff or against a zerg only to be added in on by KOM and/or PAXA when fighting enemies. They didn’t hesitate to add in so you shouldn’t either. They continue the advocation for small man but no honor of honoring those that are fighting small man on their part so why should anyone honor leaving their small man fights alone on our side when they add in themselves all the time no matter the circumstances.

Zizanzi (Stylii)
(NoQQ) Leader
ADNoQQBsty Alliance

Sorry but we never seen any AD or noqq with less then 8 tonight.

You can’t be serious. :/

Katz.5143:

Do you think they noticed its down?

Nah, nobody at Anet plays WvW.

The NSA has hacked into the WvW servers so they can record all map chat and store it in a top secret data collection center in the name of national security.

There are people in my guild doing fractals… FRACTALS! For the love of GOD make the pain stop!

KyoHanakaze.8145:

NSP more skilled in open field fights…roflmao. The only good guilds they had for open field were XOXO and SPCA, which HoD counters with PAXA and KoM alone.

I’m not saying that any of those are better than the others. But Splt and tM and a few others also have some very good players. I’m just saying they have more strong small groups across the board than the other servers we have faced. I’m not saying that they are better. And, I wasn’t comparing them to HoD since this is the first time we’ve fought HoD.

And even though Os runs with 20+ quite often, they are actually a pretty tough fight when compared to similar guilds across the servers we’ve faced. NSP, in general, run some pretty sturdy builds. Their PUGs don’t melt as easily as many other server’s PUGs do.

Deamhan.9538:

Sil.4560:

Ken.9018:

Since most of the skillful players are in Heart of the Mists

Lost credibility there. tPvP is an entirely different game mode. I can’t begin to count how many “Champion [Title]” players I’ve stomped in battle and one on one. Let them think they’re the best though. It’ll crush their morale that much more when I flag them.

I was under the impression that the OP was being sarcastic…

Probably. Nobody would say something so stupid and actually believe it.

This is one of the better troll posts made in the GW2 forum. Kudos to you, Mr. OP.

The movies cover a wide variety of content. There is everything from solo, duo, and small groups to squads (10-15). There is a good bit of GvZ but also a lot of GvG as well.

Condition Necromancer Playlist
Power Necromancer Playlist

Newest movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMhEAXwSaJc

Evilzara.6378:

Oozo.7856:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Evilzara.6378:

Oozo.7856:

DtC.4806:

Elementalist Owner.7802:

Evilzara.6378:

We were in your position 13 weeks in a row. What we did is improve.

I wasn’t at DR garrison in this instance so I can’t really say anything (although I highly doubt BP could cap anything without 5:1 numbers), but I find this statement hilarious. If by improve you mean “get more numbers” this statement would be correct.

Whether you like it or not, BP is a zerg server. With your numbers you should easily be in tier 4, if not tier 3, but you are left in tier 5 due to your lack of skill and tactics. Just another IoJ here everybody, nothing more to see.

we have a lot more numbers then you yes, but i dont think you realize what tier 3-4 is like, try 2 qued maps 90% of the day, tier 1-2 is 4 qued maps 100% of the day. During the week we struggle to que a map (we que 1 map during 5-10 server time on average)

Ehmry had easily 30-40% more numbers around the clock then we did, we held on pretty good to keep them in our tier, some of the servers in tier 4 we were probably on par with, but ehmry was the ones stuck in our tier for 13 weeks, not us. Ehmry is a tier 3-4 server, were tier 4-5.

you cant say we dont have skill when all u see is a zerg of numbers, and first off yes it takes skill and coordination to hit NW garri, a tower, and then hit water gate once ur distracted – try to get pugs to do that, you wont do so well.

All i can say is, get a public teamspeak that everyone on the server uses.

On a side note: IMO, NSP is the most “skilled” server we’ve played when it comes to their overall general population being tough to fight in the open field with relatively even numbers. Sorry, EB and Maguuma (you are tied for second though).

This has got to be the funniest thing I’ve ever read.

It kind of is true though.

In the context of running solo to 15 people, it is. NSP has more strong players that run in that range than any server we have fought. Keep in mind that the more people you run the less individual skill is required from each player.

The requirement for individual skill goes down, the requirement for smart leadership goes up.

Now, what old-schoolers consider skill are things like using your abilities and cooldowns efficiently and recognizing what skill your opponent is using and countering it with your own in a timely fashion. When you get in the 20v20 range it’s more about coordination and positioning which requires a good leader and good listeners. It’s a different type of skillset that can be appreciated in its own right, but its not what “old-school elitists” ( ;P ) consider to be individual skill.

That is why it rubs some people the wrong way when some BP talk about skill since they are working from a different definition of the word.

Thanks for the nice response. I was expecting something like “omg bp sucks you guys dont know any skill…”.

When we were vsing NSP like 3 months ago, I don’t particularly remember that much skill. Maybe it was shadowed by the presence of [Sekz]…

I would have scoffed at my statement too based on NSP from 3 months ago. It really is a different server now with respect to smaller scale groups. Lots of tough fights there now.

Stone.6751:

Raestloz.7134:

Stone.6751:

I’m not able to play this week, so I’ve not experienced the lopsided play and what it feels like. However, HoD and DR should keep their heads high and battle on. As it stands right now you both have gained server points, and BP has dropped.

Its a lot like college football. Its not whether you win or lose that matter, but what your rank is, what your opponents rank is, and by how much you win/lose.

Last I checked, BP has 60k, DR 19k, HoD 16k, but it’s 2 days ago. Considering that BP is T5 and DR HoD are T7/8 (I don’t even know if tiers still exist anymore in this system?), the numbers do sound legit, and so outrageous the programmers need to be choked with bland KFCs

On a side note, you guys are right that numbers matter a lot. We experienced that each and every week against Ebay and there just isn’t much you can do when your opponent can cover more of the maps than you for longer periods of time.

Eh, we faced SB, BP, DH, etc etc etc, all of which outnumber us every single time. The whole “come on, guys, we know how being outnumbered feels” doesn’t seem to be appropriate, considering being outnumbered is the entire reason why DR / HoD are in their tier. IF you are facing someone of higher tier, that sympathy holds water, but for the current match up, it doesn’t. So, for the love of GW2, please BP people, drop the whole act already we (DR and HoD) knows exactly how it feels to be outnumbered.

Someone posted that we should have learned that splitting forces and taking more camps/tower/keeps rather than zergballing just to take one thing at a time is a better PPT strategy. I agree with you that this is an area we can improve greatly upon. We don’t always do as good as we could using our manpower wisely, both on offense and on defense. How many times I’ve seen this scenario – A 30 man zerg takes tower, all 30 then move to camp (none left to defend/siege) and then on to another camp to fill zerg’s supply…meanwhile a small group from enemy follows behind and retakes the tower and camp before the PPT is up, netting us almost no points for all our time/effort/manpower.

This strategy certainly is true. It’s simply a matter of not enough man to fill in the positions, either because they are simply not there or because they don’t like having to sit around (they’d rather watch Doctor Who)

I’m feeling like maybe you missed the point I was making with the score. DR and HoD are WINNING against BP this match. While the score may lead people to believe otherwise, and the commanders on here may feel good stomping a lower population server after a prolonged battle against a much larger WvW server in eBay, the truth is we aren’t doing as good as we should.

Notice in the red box the server evolution points. This shows if we are moving up or down in points. As you can clearly see, BP is losing.

No. All this clearly shows is how stupid the rating system is. I mean, it was always stupid but now it is incredibly stupid with the randomization thrown in.

Gab Superstar.4059:

Evilzara.6378:

Oozo.7856:

DtC.4806:

Elementalist Owner.7802:

Evilzara.6378:

We were in your position 13 weeks in a row. What we did is improve.

I wasn’t at DR garrison in this instance so I can’t really say anything (although I highly doubt BP could cap anything without 5:1 numbers), but I find this statement hilarious. If by improve you mean “get more numbers” this statement would be correct.

Whether you like it or not, BP is a zerg server. With your numbers you should easily be in tier 4, if not tier 3, but you are left in tier 5 due to your lack of skill and tactics. Just another IoJ here everybody, nothing more to see.

we have a lot more numbers then you yes, but i dont think you realize what tier 3-4 is like, try 2 qued maps 90% of the day, tier 1-2 is 4 qued maps 100% of the day. During the week we struggle to que a map (we que 1 map during 5-10 server time on average)

Ehmry had easily 30-40% more numbers around the clock then we did, we held on pretty good to keep them in our tier, some of the servers in tier 4 we were probably on par with, but ehmry was the ones stuck in our tier for 13 weeks, not us. Ehmry is a tier 3-4 server, were tier 4-5.

you cant say we dont have skill when all u see is a zerg of numbers, and first off yes it takes skill and coordination to hit NW garri, a tower, and then hit water gate once ur distracted – try to get pugs to do that, you wont do so well.

All i can say is, get a public teamspeak that everyone on the server uses.

On a side note: IMO, NSP is the most “skilled” server we’ve played when it comes to their overall general population being tough to fight in the open field with relatively even numbers. Sorry, EB and Maguuma (you are tied for second though).

This has got to be the funniest thing I’ve ever read.

It kind of is true though.

In the context of running solo to 15 people, it is. NSP has more strong players that run in that range than any server we have fought. Keep in mind that the more people you run the less individual skill is required from each player.

The requirement for individual skill goes down, the requirement for smart leadership goes up.

Now, what old-schoolers consider skill are things like using your abilities and cooldowns efficiently and recognizing what skill your opponent is using and countering it with your own in a timely fashion. When you get in the 20v20 range it’s more about coordination and positioning which requires a good leader and good listeners. It’s a different type of skillset that can be appreciated in its own right, but its not what “old-school elitists” ( ;P ) consider to be individual skill.

That is why it rubs some people the wrong way when some BP talk about skill since they are working from a different definition of the word.

DtC.4806:

Elementalist Owner.7802:

Evilzara.6378:

We were in your position 13 weeks in a row. What we did is improve.

I wasn’t at DR garrison in this instance so I can’t really say anything (although I highly doubt BP could cap anything without 5:1 numbers), but I find this statement hilarious. If by improve you mean “get more numbers” this statement would be correct.

Whether you like it or not, BP is a zerg server. With your numbers you should easily be in tier 4, if not tier 3, but you are left in tier 5 due to your lack of skill and tactics. Just another IoJ here everybody, nothing more to see.

we have a lot more numbers then you yes, but i dont think you realize what tier 3-4 is like, try 2 qued maps 90% of the day, tier 1-2 is 4 qued maps 100% of the day. During the week we struggle to que a map (we que 1 map during 5-10 server time on average)

Ehmry had easily 30-40% more numbers around the clock then we did, we held on pretty good to keep them in our tier, some of the servers in tier 4 we were probably on par with, but ehmry was the ones stuck in our tier for 13 weeks, not us. Ehmry is a tier 3-4 server, were tier 4-5.

you cant say we dont have skill when all u see is a zerg of numbers, and first off yes it takes skill and coordination to hit NW garri, a tower, and then hit water gate once ur distracted – try to get pugs to do that, you wont do so well.

All i can say is, get a public teamspeak that everyone on the server uses.

EB was a tweener server (of which there have been many). It dominated your tier but would get dominated in the tier above it. DR fought EB in six matchups, including two that were DR/EB/BP.

Most DR will tell you that EB was (generally speaking) better in the open field than BP. We make these judgments on how EB did in relatively equal number fights compared to how BP did in relatively equal number fights.

On a side note: IMO, NSP is the most “skilled” server we’ve played when it comes to their overall population being tough to fight in the open field with relatively even numbers. Sorry, EB and Maguuma (you are tied for second though).

PartyInMyPants.9813:

Great GvG tonight. Sat on the side lines, took a video of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D21ylHCMqNI

That portal juke on the third fight was perfectly executed. Grats on that.

Colbey.4258:

I just wanted to say I enjoyed seeing NoQQ and AD out in BP borderlands tonight. I remember you guys from when you were in Tier 5 and you are still hell to fight. Hopefully my guildies will log on before the week is up so we can have have some fun. /Salute

You are the guardian that got chain pulled back from the tower three times but still got away? Good stuff. We had a pretty good laugh at our fail there.

A necro montage before reset.

Caring too much about things that you have no control over is almost as stupid as insulting people for things that they have no control over.

This thread is like watching someone trying to teach multi-variable calculus to someone who hasn’t passed basic algebra.

Crimson Magdelana.9024:

Well, that was unexpected. We’ve lost some people, but more out of burnout playing the game than anything else. Most of us actually prefer running 10 and under but it can be really hard to find enemy groups that run those numbers as well. That’s why we engaged you a few times when you had us outnumbered. Not because we thought we’d win but just to break up the boredom of looking for some good and challenging fights. Unfortunately, it’s usually the case of not being enough enemies to be a challenge or too many enemies that are just way too much to handle. There is not a lot of fun to be had in either case.

Tots and myself said it earlier in the thread, but [HARD] has improved since we fought awhile back ago. Your open field movement and, particularly, the discipline of those following your leader are very good now. The only real way to win when outnumbered is to divide and conquer by stretching and turning to create some separation. But, you guys were having none of that. Good job there, it’s amazing how many groups still fall for it (including organized guilds).

In terms of how DR does on the scoreboard, we really don’t have a huge impact on that. There are a lot of guilds that do the thankless, dirty, and (IMO) boring work there.

Congrats for the win. On a side note, I personally don’t consider the server coming in second “beating” the server that comes in third. The server on top has way too much influence on that outcome.

JamboHammer.4397:

Funny DH run into that keep more bro

You are in a group of five thieves. I’m pretty sure you have forfeited the right to call any one else a “kitten”.

Creepy Silent.9801:

Attic.1562:

Oozo.7856:

Faux Sheaux.6179:

Zizanzi.4678:

Faux Sheaux.6179:

Zizanzi.4678:

Faux Sheaux.6179:

Speaking of [NoQQ], I bet they are regretting naming themselves after a bandwagon server now that it’s dying. Should be “Glad We Didnt Roll Kaineng”.

No I dont regret it because people dont understand “my” meaning. I made NoQQ (Shoulda Rolled Kaineng) on Kaineng as a joke when Kaineng was the lowest of the low with a population that was nonexistant in WvW. Was more of a joke to those that we killed that they “Shoulda Rolled Kaineng” otherwise they wouldn’t have died in WvW to a Kaineng group roaming around. This was on Kaineng WAY before the bandwagon ride up that Kaineng did. I moved my guild off of Kaineng weeks before they started their rise up the ranks.

Stylii Elementalist (Leader)
(NoQQ)

It was a joke, bud. I heard the story multiple times while we played you guys. Loosen up a bit

OMG, that was a joke. WoW had no idea it was. Dang I wish I had known before I commented since I had no clue it was. (Rolls eyes) BTW you aren’t the only one that reads the forums. Stop hating.

Stylii
NoQQ

What’s up with the hostility, and where did you get the hating? I had nothing but good experiences with you guys when we played, so I’m not sure why you’re trying to pick a fight in a matchup thread that isn’t even yours.

Calm thy teets. If I knew I would have to read your life story (again), I wouldn’t have said anything. The only hating going on here is yours of corny situational humor.

The problem with the joke is that not everyone who reads the forums knows the backstory on NoQQ and why the guild is named the way it is, so Stylii has no choice but to correct the record for those people.

He probably regrets the guild name for that reason but not for the one in your joke. :P

The other problem is that Stylii posts like a 12 year old girl does; between the ballistic approach to punctuation and capitalization plus the love of emotes and OMGs I always have trouble reading his posts in anything but a shrill, hysterical voice that always ends sentences with !?.

It makes me feel like I’m trolling on deviantart/gaia again. Like I wouldn’t be shocked to see him spouting off stuff about Naruto, bishies, and yaoi in 16 pt glittery pink comic sans.

Basically, it’s really hard to understand exactly what he’s saying if you don’t have experience talking with him in vent to filter the post through.

Personally, I loved wearing my [NoQQ] tag back when we fought against Kaineng. Especially when we ran over War Machine and SoS groups.

I miss the glory days of Oct & Nov. The game will never be that much fun again.

I miss our smack talking sessions(“real sessions”) with Viveus, Grompe and of course yourself lol.

With friends like these….

Faux Sheaux.6179:

Zizanzi.4678:

Faux Sheaux.6179:

Zizanzi.4678:

Faux Sheaux.6179:

Speaking of [NoQQ], I bet they are regretting naming themselves after a bandwagon server now that it’s dying. Should be “Glad We Didnt Roll Kaineng”.

No I dont regret it because people dont understand “my” meaning. I made NoQQ (Shoulda Rolled Kaineng) on Kaineng as a joke when Kaineng was the lowest of the low with a population that was nonexistant in WvW. Was more of a joke to those that we killed that they “Shoulda Rolled Kaineng” otherwise they wouldn’t have died in WvW to a Kaineng group roaming around. This was on Kaineng WAY before the bandwagon ride up that Kaineng did. I moved my guild off of Kaineng weeks before they started their rise up the ranks.

Stylii Elementalist (Leader)
(NoQQ)

It was a joke, bud. I heard the story multiple times while we played you guys. Loosen up a bit

OMG, that was a joke. WoW had no idea it was. Dang I wish I had known before I commented since I had no clue it was. (Rolls eyes) BTW you aren’t the only one that reads the forums. Stop hating.

Stylii
NoQQ

What’s up with the hostility, and where did you get the hating? I had nothing but good experiences with you guys when we played, so I’m not sure why you’re trying to pick a fight in a matchup thread that isn’t even yours.

Calm thy teets. If I knew I would have to read your life story (again), I wouldn’t have said anything. The only hating going on here is yours of corny situational humor.

The problem with the joke is that not everyone who reads the forums knows the backstory on NoQQ and why the guild is named the way it is, so Stylii has no choice but to correct the record for those people.

He probably regrets the guild name for that reason but not for the one in your joke. :P

Lot’s of work put into this. I’ll enjoy going through it. I hope you don’t mind if I make some suggestions for corrections. There will always be some errors with a guide of this size. There will also be some thing that I learn that I didn’t already know myself.

1. “Ranger’s roots are especially harmful because conditions cannot damage the roots and condition transfer doesn’t remove them.”

The binding root pulses immobilize. You can transfer the immobilize and dodge roll out of the binding root before it pulses again to escape it. You can see that done a couple of times at the beginning of the movie below.

Transfering binding root immobilize and rolling out

2. “Necros must commit to every fight because they cannot leap, stealth, or blink to get away.”

Well, we have the DS port but it kind of sucks since it requires a target and has a travel time. But, it can still save you sometimes.

Using a NPC to escape
Using a player to escape

Tots.3056:

IoJ has been proving tough to string out, they stay together well and when one comes they all seem to come. They’re dedication to staying together is extremely high

Yep, it’s been generally pretty hard to extend and string out IoJ’s numbers to thin them out. That’s good leadership and discipline.

Crimson Magdelana.9024:

The underlining point here is simply this; DR has trolled/farmed/belittled IoJ long enough with excuses, videos (Remember when Noqq/AD/Bsty posted all the silly video intro posts to a video of you farming half empty servers that have now ceased?), and berated IoJ for long enough that the bros have been blessed with the matchup of our dreams.

AND DR IS LOSING! Where’s the videos?

Didn’t realize you were such a big fan.

Helping DR defend IoJ’s Hill Keep on 6/2
ADQQSty vs IoJ/FC Montage

The first half of the second movie is our old matchup, the second half is the new matchup.

KinkyGiraffe.4123:

Lol you guys,
We’re not WINNING because of our Oceanics, we simply have a 45k lead on you because of them.
It takes both NA and Oceanic to keep the PPT up and stay in the lead.

Like i said above, yes in that graph it seems like DR would barely win during NA only, now if you guys had oceanic presence aswell, and it was the same/we were winning oceanic, our tactics will be completely different and it will be a totally different matchup.

Saying we’re winning because of our oceanics is wrong, do not take it away from our NA’s, theyre the ones that are doing the hard yards trying to fight off the prime.
Ive constantly seen people say ‘Naw i always miss out on the fun" meaning our stomping during Oceanic.
Dont just find excuses to put down part of our server when we’re all here fighting the same cause

Kinky,

Can’t you see that we are saying if the coverage was like primetime for 24 hours then this would be a relatively close three way matchup?

KinkyGiraffe.4123:

Oozo.7856:

Pentzski.4620:

Crimson Magdelana.9024:

DR can’t say that IoJ has more points because of a 6 hour time span when oceanics roll what they want and DR sleeps

LOLwat. That’s exactly why you’re winning.

Unbelievable, isn’t it?

Click below to enlarge the image. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see what’s going on in this matchup.

i would LOVE for DR to get some oceanic guys.

Before you guys couldnt stomp us and said we were hiding behind/leeching off the zerg server, now that we’re dominating its all of a sudden only because our oceanics?
Our NA guys still hold up well against your peak times, we’re still able to 5 man your keeps when you have a good 25+ people on.

Whatever helps you guys sleep at night, keep coming up with the excuses.

At least us on IoJ know who in the end is the better server <3

I wish all the servers had similar coverage, but Anet in their infinite wisdom set things up to be totally fubar. I’ve already said that the primetime hours have been pretty competitive (you can see that in the graphic I attached above). But also notice that during those hours DR (green) is often on top or trending on top. Nobody is getting “dominated” during primetime hours.

Now, as this match progresses and people see it’s futile to compete with IoJ’s off-hour coverage fair-weather players will stop coming out for FC and DR and I expect that IoJ will start doing better during primetime hours.

This is a very common pattern.

I can understand being upset with some trash-talkers from previous threads, but thumping your chest here and trying to say that you don’t have a lead because of your off-hour presence just looks bad for you.

Again, in case you missed it.

Crimson Magdelana.9024:

Dude, the attachment below does not lie. Do you understand the implications of the graphic below? If not, I can try to explain it to you.

Pentzski.4620:

Crimson Magdelana.9024:

DR can’t say that IoJ has more points because of a 6 hour time span when oceanics roll what they want and DR sleeps

LOLwat. That’s exactly why you’re winning.

Unbelievable, isn’t it?

Click below to enlarge the image. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see what’s going on in this matchup.

SiLENT.2346:

Oozo.7856:

SiLENT.2346:

Oozo.7856:

KinkyGiraffe.4123:

Oozo.7856:

when there is a dominant server (which seems to be the case more often than not) the other two servers really have no choice but to play for second.

Oh so now you guys are playing for second
I swear i saw a DR guy say you lot never play for second
You guys get confusing!

When there is a server with superior off-hour coverage the other two servers are going to be playing for second. The winner of this matchup is a foregone conclusion.

Furthermore, it’s really not intelligent to assume that I speak for all of DR or that anyone else does. I personally don’t blame IoJ or any other server for playing for second when there is a dominant server in the matchup.

Then don’t speak at all, problem solved.

Yeah, so if someone doesn’t claim to be speaking for the entire server then they just shouldn’t speak at all. Brilliant.

Nearly all the stuff i see from DR includes words like “we” and “us” which includes some of your posts. At this point you’re just making up excuses. I still stand by my previous statement.

What exactly am I making excuses for?

When I say “we” or “us” I’m referring to the people I play with and even then I would never presume to speak for all of them on something which is a matter of opinion and not a matter of fact.

SiLENT.2346:

Oozo.7856:

KinkyGiraffe.4123:

Oozo.7856:

when there is a dominant server (which seems to be the case more often than not) the other two servers really have no choice but to play for second.

Oh so now you guys are playing for second
I swear i saw a DR guy say you lot never play for second
You guys get confusing!

When there is a server with superior off-hour coverage the other two servers are going to be playing for second. The winner of this matchup is a foregone conclusion.

Furthermore, it’s really not intelligent to assume that I speak for all of DR or that anyone else does. I personally don’t blame IoJ or any other server for playing for second when there is a dominant server in the matchup.

Then don’t speak at all, problem solved.

Yeah, so if someone doesn’t claim to be speaking for the entire server then they just shouldn’t speak at all. Brilliant.

KinkyGiraffe.4123:

Oozo.7856:

when there is a dominant server (which seems to be the case more often than not) the other two servers really have no choice but to play for second.

Oh so now you guys are playing for second
I swear i saw a DR guy say you lot never play for second
You guys get confusing!

When there is a server with superior off-hour coverage the other two servers are going to be playing for second. The winner of this matchup is a foregone conclusion.

Furthermore, it’s really not intelligent to assume that I speak for all of DR or that anyone else does. I personally don’t blame IoJ or any other server for playing for second when there is a dominant (via coverage) server in the matchup.

It’s a flaw in the game, but when there is a dominant server (which seems to be the case more often than not) the other two servers really have no choice but to play for second. People complaining about getting 2v1d bother me almost as much as people who post 600+ PPT screenshots taken in the early morning or during work hours.

The WvW scoring/ladder system is pretty much broken and people just seem take it out on each other. The only thing that really matters are the times when all three servers have a healthy population and things have seemed pretty competitive during those times.

Dude, the only reason IoJ was in third place was because the green servers had enough off-hour coverage to negate your off-hour coverage and your NA presence was not as strong as the other two servers. The server with the best off-hour coverage wins all of the match-ups up and down the ladder. If a server has a significant off-hour coverage advantage then the matchup is typically a blowout.

The score is about coverage. Period. The side with a significant coverage advantage not only gets to take undefended towers and keeps but gets to upgrade them and siege them up while most of the population is asleep or at work. The off-hour window is much longer than the primetime window, so the huge PPT advantage gained during off-hours rolls in many more points than leading the PPT during primetime.

The above is so freaking obvious and true, I honestly don’t understand why people even give a kitten about the scoreboard.

urbanevil.7145:

Oozo.7856:

urbanevil.7145:

Last post in this thread lol…

DR complain’s about zergs?

Hmmmm… what’s this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Lr1coSMD-w

You really shouldn’t call this “zerg-busting” when you have at least the same numbers if not more. I suggest covering up the minimap next time so we can’t see all the green dots.

Le sigh… This is why i try not to post in this thread, but it keep’s ripping me back! There were roughly 20 [HARD] member’s last night actually coordinating on vent, now as with any group your gonna have pug’s tag along (safety in numbers), we even tryed to have someone else command so we could move in relative silence. My point is the start of this thread was “LOL IOJ ZERG blah blah blah”, followed by “lol where’s this footage, post it then!”, which i have. I blatantly showed DR’S zerg in NA PRIMETIME (EST for the record, baltimore STAND UP) getting whacked, that FC happened to show up was more of a random occurence. At one point we had a decent size FC force (15-20 maybe? FC can prolly confirm) at our back’s while dealing with a 40+ DR zerg in our front. We post footage to back-up our claim (i have another 2 gig’s easy), and then it’s “omg u were smashing small group’s”, i call BS. At the fight otuside of bay there was easily 50+, and when we capped bay prior, we had a 50+ dr zerg and a FC zerg of how many i have no clue (the holy lag part), but it was enough to bring my machine to a crawl.

TL:DR

DR has a zerg

FC is Cool

Everyone has #’s to an extent

p.s.

Whoever the FC guy was who came on IOJ vent on reset night, i did’nt catch your name but classy move man!

I have no problem with the movie since it looked like relatively even number fights but if you are going to call DR a zerg in that movie then you would have to call IoJ a zerg as well in that movie. It was a zerg versus zerg movie.

urbanevil.7145:

Last post in this thread lol…

DR complain’s about zergs?

Hmmmm… what’s this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Lr1coSMD-w

You really shouldn’t call this “zerg-busting” when you have at least the same numbers if not more. I suggest covering up the minimap next time so we can’t see all the green dots.

KinkyGiraffe.4123:

Darek.1836:

God Im so kitten ed at the fact that NO IoJ solo roam. Like maybe .001% (aka 2 people on the server). Even the half wit almost decent players all roam in groups of 4 at least, so you know, they can kill those solo roaming pests without having to worry about losing! Unfortunately they still lose a lot.

If you want to 1v1 people, go do SPvP, why would people even want to solo? I personally love rolling around in a party of pugs, or even a guild group, we never expect to survive very long, its always fun though!

SmoothChaos.5397:

so when you get into a matchup with a server that equals your coverage (cough darkhaven cough) you don’t get absolutely laughed at, doesn’t concern me.

HA. Darkhaven….same coverage….HA. We had 1 window of opportunity against Darkhaven and that was 1-2 hours before our oceanics log off and even the we couldnt capitalise

EDIT: If SF had more run the clock coverage, DH wouldnt have won by such a large margin all the time, we proved that when IoJ held 1st place til Tuesday night!

This is what i missed most about you DR, every other forum matchup are BORING without your forum warriors i LOVE you, you lot are always a good laugh.

“We dont care about points” Personal favourite.
“No roamers”
“You have spies”
“20 people wipe your 50” (I honestly cant remember the last time we had a zerg of 50…)

Keep up the good work guys, im just said my internet is capped until the 7th so no commanding for me sad panda

You do realize that the guy you quoted at the top is from FC, right?

Lukian Darkblade.8012:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epUZxANY5nc

How we do things on Fergs.

No veil or mass invis on approach? Not sure you’d get away with that on the higher level ore in EB.