Guild Wars 2

Kharr.5746:

What you are seeing in the screenshot is him using B.O.B then using Elixer X to get the doubled attack power from Rampage before it goes off, resulting in a crazy high crit.

We have a winner!

Hilarious when it works, totally unreliable and ridiculously difficult to land in practice.

Great for giggles, not so great for effectively killing people.

Thesilentflute.8761:

The nades them self are not super imbalanced or a terrible idea it is the 25 stacks of might that go along with it. What is it? 250 power and 250 condi dmg for 25 stacks of might that is the stat gain from 50 trait points.

It’s actually 875 power/condi damage. But that’s for your entire set of runes, your heal, 2 utilities, your sigil AND 30 trait points.

It doesn’t even deal the most condi damage out there, it just deals the most overall damage of any engi build out there ATM because power scales well with nades.

The sacrifice in survivability and team support more than make up for it. Lots of top tier engis, including myself, no longer run it for that reason.

Kwll.1468:

dovrak.4376:

No one is using HGH in high level pvp. It offers 0 utility, just boons and grenades. Elixir S nerf is another big reason I believe.
Just my 2 cents.

Balancing around so called “high level” pvp imo is why this game is struggling. Your average player is not running around in highly optimized groups nor do they play as much as the people that do. It is harder then you make it out to be to dodge grenades on a small point. Its stupid game design to have something that can hit multiple people hard and has good range. In just about every other game I have played AoE either has tiny range (generally point blank) if its powerful or gets progressively weaker the greater the range increases until it basically tickles people if it has the range of normal projectiles. You can defend it all you want with l2play arguments but its generally considered bad game design because every game I have played that started out with it the way GW2 has it currently they have changed it.

It’s more about not clumping up into a tight group than anything else. If you do that, an HGH engi is just one of the very many things that will destroy every single player very very quickly.

It’s not a difficult concept, it’s just one that takes practice to really get. A large majority of the strongest abilities in GW2 are AoE. The less people eating said AoE, the better. It’s not super imbalanced and it’s not a terrible idea like a large number of people claim. All it does is give a larger impetus on better positioning.

gesho.9468:

it was not good, burst in wow, but i’m not going to talk about wow.

it’s just, in gw2, i cant see any “burst phase”. all boons are 3-5 sec and so are all stuns.

one of the key skill in wow pvp was to be aware of enemy cooldowns and know when to cc, that’s where the edge of high skill was.

is this mechanics present in gw2?

ps: still trying to learn animations for spell telegraphs

Every class is different and every fight is different. You’ll find that knowledge of classes and deciphering builds via utilities/weapon sets is extremely important. Once you can do that you’ll understand what that person is intending to do and how to beat him.

I’m not too familiar with WoW, but GW2 fights can be anywhere between 1v1s and 5v5 team fights. High level play revolves around strategy, rotations and winning fights. What you mentioned in your original post is probably the most basic of skills required to play well.

Shiyo.3578:

HGH eng does far too much damage, it’s pretty much the only class that constantly puts me at 10% hp every 2 seconds. Even with wall of reflect and shield spirit they’re still annoying as hell. Hopefully their damage gets toned down, probably with a nerf to keeping 25 might up 24/7. Dying to 30k burn damage when I’m constantly removing conditions and always timing my condition removals properly isn’t fun.

They’re actually somewhat easier to kill than a Shatter Mesmer, they simply bring ALOT to the table.

I don’t see how a medium armor class with 18k+ hp and 1600+ toughness with a 3 second invul, a 2 second invul, a self-res, and tons of condition removal is “easy to kill”.

You don’t get a 3 second invuln, a 2 second invuln and a self rez in HGH. It’s either a 3 second invuln in which you cannot do anything else on a 50 second cooldown (as the only stun break) or you get a self rez on a 120 second cooldown that is very easily counterable in anything bigger than a 1v1, ESEPCIALLY in HGH as there’s nothing like big ol’ bomb to counter it.

I don’t play HGH anymore for kitten good reason. It’s hardly as overpowered as you people claim it is. Simply put, dodge grenades, strip the might, kill the engi, don’t run without condi clear. A little bit of knowledge and perspective goes a long way to fighting an engi, something that a lot of people severely lack and would rather QQ about instead of dealing with them the way good players do.

HGH engis are abysmal at chasing people down. if you cannot fight him then run. If you cannot run then don’t engage in the first place.

chungiee.8764:

Grackleflint.4956:

I tested inertial converter in the mists. It has its own cooldown of approximately 90 seconds.

p.s. this was a pain in the kitten to test

Haha thanks for your efforts! Glad someone could clear that up for me as I would have no idea how to go about testing that lol.

Now just to figure out how to make use of this knowledge…would be nice if there was something visual to tell me if Inertial Converter will get used so i can plan whether to Toss that Elixir R for condi heals :p.

Thanks again – your awesome.

With inertial converter against burst classes you’ll often see your elixir R go on CD again because of how the ability will reset during the “cast” time of elixir R.

When in doubt, throw it out. The worst thing that can happen is you throw R down too late and you don’t benefit from the reset. You get plenty of R’s with inertial converter. The best way to be able to tell the cooldown is via the match timer (in tourneys or hotjoins). Another option is your cooldown on supply crate.

Although it’s a bad idea to throw R down for condi cleanses if you’re relatively sure a teammate is going to go down before you. I’ve had that happen before and it’s a facepalm moment I try to avoid.

Uri The Impaler.2956:

How do you deal with this? I play a guardian, running a support/bunker build. And it’s so insanely hard to keep alive against a engineer running up, and spamming grenades. Not only are the particles disorienting, but the damage is just insane. I’m trying to get some friends into the game, and every time we come into a game where a nades engi comes strolling in, sits high somewhere and drops infinite bombs on our face, we just melt. And it discourages my team so much. I need to know how to deal with them quickly once we see the nades start flying. Or else I fear my friends will just quit because of this.

Don’t cluster up together. Use wall of reflection. Use a 0 0 10 30 30 build with pure of voice, soldiers runes and absolute preservation. Dodge the grenades (remarkable how often this is overlooked!)

Most importantly: KILL THE ENGI!!! Almost all engis are extremely susceptible to focus fire and lots of CC by nature of their lack of escape mechanisms and evades.

Also, an engineer spamming grenades from afar in a condition damage build is doing substantially reduced damage to what he could be doing if he was closer to you. Often times, if standing at or near maximum range, you can quite literally walk away from where the grenades are going to land.

I honestly have yet to see another player outside of an engineer player deal with grenades as effectively as they can. The lack of knowledge of how to deal with this powerful kit is staggering.

kostbabis.8791:

Ostricheggs.3742:

uberkingkong.8041:

grenades hard to land? lol. try landing dragon tooth, you tell me which one requires more skill to land.

Thanks to zoose guide, well mainly his ‘combo’ techniques, s/d ele is very enjoyable to play. Most other guides don’t give you combo’s, like with hgh engy, ostrich eggs never gave a combo that he uses a lot. I don’t know of any Mesmer combos, all I know is to land mind rack as often as I can. Thief combo? Caed never told us one, all I know is that you never keep pressing one till there hp is half, so…. what skills do I use then??

Dragons tooth doesn’t take skill to land because you’re forced to chain hard (or soft, depending on spec) CC into the dragons tooth. Quite literally the only trick to landing dragons tooth is switching to fire quick enough after updraft.

To imply that’s harder than landing a ground targeted AoE on an actively moving target is incredibly asinine

Of course theres skill in landing dt you oblivious engie elitist.. :P
Actually turning it in gtaoe it would effectively make 10 times easier to use it now..So plsss dear engie give us the skill cap of your nades..cause now dt is way easy to use

The noob ele will think its either it hit or miss with dt..but the experienced ele will know that you can use it for zoning,ativate when enemy passes a combo field,use it without target onto a combo field like forstealth etc
Besides you can take elem surge and make arcane builds that are many times harder than your hgh only because now your fire burst is not so “activate and hope to god it hits” like you said..
Imo dps/burst ele is much harder to play than hgh and i think a lot of pople even at top teams would agree with me here.Besides if youd bother to make some calculations about what effecient ele play is you would see that it gets a lot more complicated thatn a simple rotation even on easier builds like d/d..
That of course if we are talking about MAX potential..which means you need to factor specific boons uptime,skill cds and cost of staying in current att,skills availability in next 10 sec if you leave, opening for burst and having the cc and their attunements ready to set them up etc..
In fact logic wise i can tell you i find it a lot harder to calculate the exact perfect play for a situation on ANY ele than your hgh engie..the only difference was and is still to a degree that you DONT need to play at max potential ele to be effective.To that i agree

Lastly is good to notice that engie requires a lot lower skill compared to any class when it comes to predicting or beng proactive.With engie you can pretty much react to situation .Doesnt matter that you miscalculated and are stuck on wrong kit..Just switch back!

It’s very clear that we don’t see eye to eye and any further input would result in derailment.

It took me 10 games to become effective at using dragons tooth on my ele. It took me 5,000 games to become as good at landing nades as I am.

I continually see people claiming that HGH is a faceroll build for scrubs. I would truly like to see those who claim it to join the next big tournament on their HgH engi and show me how it’s done, because I clearly have much more trouble playing the build than you guys.

I agree.

Nerf it

Guardian:

Torch:
Zealot’s fire
Hammer:
Banish
Zealot’s Embrace
Focus:
Shield of Wrath
Ray of Judgement (if you’re a condi class!)
Greatsword:
Whirling Wrath
Binding Blade
Leap of Faith
Utilities:
Hammer of Wisdom

Warrior:
Greatsword:
Hundred Blades
Whirlwind Attack
Blade Trail
Rush
Hammer:
Earth Shaker
Staggering Blow
Back Breaker
Longbow:
Arcing Arrow
Pin Down
RIfle:
Volley
Kill Shot
Axe (mainhand)
Eviscerate
Throw axe (depending on spec)
Mace (mainhand):
Skull Crack
Pommel Bash
Sword (mainhand):
Flurry
Utilities:
Bulls charge
Bolas

Engineer:
Rifle:
Netshot
Overcharged shot
Jump shot
Bomb kit:
Fire bomb
Concussion bomb
Grenade kit:
Shrapnel grenade
Freeze Grenade
Tool kit:
Pry bar
Magnet
Elites:
Supply crate

I’ll do more later, maybe even a description. Lots of things to dodge out there!

Blackhat.4016:

Ostricheggs.3742:

uberkingkong.8041:

grenades hard to land? lol. try landing dragon tooth, you tell me which one requires more skill to land.

Thanks to zoose guide, well mainly his ‘combo’ techniques, s/d ele is very enjoyable to play. Most other guides don’t give you combo’s, like with hgh engy, ostrich eggs never gave a combo that he uses a lot. I don’t know of any Mesmer combos, all I know is to land mind rack as often as I can. Thief combo? Caed never told us one, all I know is that you never keep pressing one till there hp is half, so…. what skills do I use then??

Dragons tooth doesn’t take skill to land because you’re forced to chain hard (or soft, depending on spec) CC into the dragons tooth. Quite literally the only trick to landing dragons tooth is switching to fire quick enough after updraft.

To imply that’s harder than landing a ground targeted AoE on an actively moving target is incredibly asinine

Tbh that’s a pretty bad argument since you could say exactly the same about ground targeted AoEs. Why don’t you CC your opponent before using them?

Imo Dragon’s Tooth is one of the worst abilities in the game when it comes to hitting your oppenent. Ground targeted AoEs give you the option to cast it in the direction your enemy runs (it takes skill but it’s definitely possible) or on a certain part of the map. They are also faster most of the time unless you cast them on max range.

It’s different for Dragon’s Tooth. You either use your long CD CC (40sec Updraft / 45sec Earthquake) and hope your opponent can’t react fast enough or there is no way to deal damage to him with this skill.

Almost every GTAoE in the game has no flight time. Necro marks are substantially easier to use than grenades for a similar effect. They land instantly, all it takes is point and click. The only thing that really comes close to how grenades work is pheonix on the scepter, but that’s a pretty bad comparison because of how pheonix works and is generally used.

Dragons tooth is either hit or miss. There is no skill on the side of the player casting dragons tooth to determine whether or not it hits or misses outside of chaining CC from either immobs, updraft or earthquake (the latter only usable after casting dtooth, not before).

And I rarely CC my opponents into my grenades. Why would I CC into my nades if I don’t need to to land them?

uberkingkong.8041:

grenades hard to land? lol. try landing dragon tooth, you tell me which one requires more skill to land.

Thanks to zoose guide, well mainly his ‘combo’ techniques, s/d ele is very enjoyable to play. Most other guides don’t give you combo’s, like with hgh engy, ostrich eggs never gave a combo that he uses a lot. I don’t know of any Mesmer combos, all I know is to land mind rack as often as I can. Thief combo? Caed never told us one, all I know is that you never keep pressing one till there hp is half, so…. what skills do I use then??

Dragons tooth doesn’t take skill to land because you’re forced to chain hard (or soft, depending on spec) CC into the dragons tooth. Quite literally the only trick to landing dragons tooth is switching to fire quick enough after updraft.

To imply that’s harder than landing a ground targeted AoE on an actively moving target is incredibly asinine

Blimm.5028:

SNIP.

Everyone says HGH is incredibly easy to play. There’s a kitten good reason why there’s under a handful of people who can play the build at a high tourney level. It’s not cuz it’s easy, it’s because it’s an incredibly squishy build that will get your kitten killed if you miss a single grenade.

The build I’ve been playing recently is 30 times easier than HGH ever was. I’ve seen too many noobs miss important grenades to believe a word you say about grenades not being a skill shot.

Yes, IF you land your grenades you’re going to kill someone. Some shots are easier than others. But the build itself is EXTREMELY punishing to those who miss their dodge rolls, position wrong and miss their skill shots. It’s not forgiving in the slightest and to play it at a high level requires far more skill than any engi build I’ve seen just in the sole fact that it’s incredibly invested in dishing out the most damage possible. The trick isn’t killing things, it’s killing things efficiently, 1v1ing things and staying alive.

Thieves fall in the same category. Their burst is incredibly easy and tell-tale, but IMO it’s one of the highest skill cap classes in the game next to engis because of the fact that if a ranger pet sneezes on them they’ll go down.

True skill in this game is about eeking out the extra 20-50% a build can provide by reacting correctly to what your opponent is doing. Truly difficult builds provide substantial benefit from reaction rather than proactively going through a rote rotation (see: Eles). “Simple” builds usually have a deceptively high skill cap when played at a high level. When speaking about hard-to-play builds you should take into consideration the skill cap rather than the skill floor for any particular build. The difference between those players who are at or near the skill cap and those who just picked the class up is substantial enough to justify calling a build difficult. Most of the stellar players have almost no rivals for their particular class or build by a very long shot. To ignore that is to completely render your entire post invalid. f you haven’t reached said skill cap or don’t understand the build well enough to have reached it, you really shouldn’t talk about how easy it is.

Shatter mesmers, HGH engis and backstab thieves are some of the hardest builds to play in the entire game at a high level.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Ostricheggs.3742:

It’s arguably the best 1v1 elite in the entire game. Its effect becomes substantially reduced when used in larger fights or in fights with large amounts of AoE. Cleave down the turrets in small scale. If you can’t cleave down the turrets, run.

To nitpick a bit, the best 1v1 elite is Moa Morph.

Still, I do have to reflect the sentiment that everyone else has about the Supply Crate, but in list form. Cuz I’m weird like that.

*It’s a quick AoE stun and has good healing and control. In condition builds the burn is pretty good, too.
*It’s effect diminishes quickly if it is not a 1v1 scenario.
*They are vulnerable to AoEs.
*They don’t have the best AI. Mesmers and minion necros will mess you up.
*The supply crate gets a whole lot better with turret increasing traits.
*It is best in sPVP. In WvW people just run away, in PVE enemies are either too weak or they’re strong enough to bowl them over effortlessly.

So it has its place. In PVE and WvW on the engi I mostly use the Hounds of Balthazar as my elite. It’s similar in that it does burning damage, but the hounds chase people down and do more direct damage.

In sPVP I love it, though. I run a turret build, and for me the supply crate is useful as either a backup set when they’re all on cooldown, or if I’m fighting someone really good they’re basically round two for my opponents.

I’m not too sure the best 1v1 elite is moa. In a 1v1 it’s very easy to dodge and it’s difficult to chain a shatter combo into. At best it might win a fight for a mesmer, at worst it makes the person run away.

I’d personally rather have supply crate than moa in 1v1s, but I guess all this is aside the point eh?

It’s arguably the best 1v1 elite in the entire game. Its effect becomes substantially reduced when used in larger fights or in fights with large amounts of AoE. Cleave down the turrets in small scale. If you can’t cleave down the turrets, run.

The bandages, when used selfishly, are what makes supply crate so good. Their effect isn’t nearly as pronounced in a teamfight because it’s only one person getting healed.

Dealing with supply crate is pretty easy IMO. If you get stunned, break the stun, dodge immediatly to avoid getting immobed by the net turret, kit out of range of the turrets, cleave them down, especially the net turret. Flame turret should be second priority cuz burnign hurts like a kitten.

It’s not very OP IMO. It’s strong as kitten when its used like it should be, but often times it’s used more for the emergency CC in a team fight than it is where it should.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Paradoxine.8192:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted you guys to know that we’re watching this thread here in the office. The results are a great way for us to see (even if it’s a very small sample size) how some of the players are feeling about what they’d like to see improved.

Could you watch my ‘The Dream sPvP Patch’ thread? Much of the stuff in there will require months to implement or is idealistic (e.g “Bring all classes to the same level of overall effectiveness”) but it is also true that some of the stuff in there should be easy to implement (quality of life stuff). I’ll be updating it regularly and will bump periodically to add to it.

Yep, I’ve been watching that one too. I totally agree on bringing all classes to the same level, just want to make sure we do it correctly/over time and not do wild improvements/reductions everywhere and then have to revert them.

Quality of life stuff is always going on, it just also takes time.

the largest quality of life improvement I could possibly think of would be to make salvaging easier in any way. The easiest solution would be to make all PvP rewards lower than the minimum quality that brings up the “are you sure?” screen when salvaging.

Sadly, until somethings done about this I’m saving my wrists the trouble.

And I guess as far as the list goes:

1. Better reward system
2. Solo queues
3. Better leaderboards (they’re a joke at the moment, sadly)

Dante.1508:

And because of these one trick pony builds and tiny group overpowered in a minority Aspect of the game (spvp) is why Engi cannot have nice things….

Sorry that HGH, a build specifically designed for TPvP, ruined your PvE gameplay. It’s hardly as easy as you think when it’s used where it’s meant to be.

chungiee.8764:

As it is HGH, i obviously use a similar build but i notice you have some interesting variations which i’d like to ask about.

1) Is Shrapnel worth it over Short Fuse (or even Enhanced Performance).

With Short Fuse, the benefits from reducing Shrapnel Grenade would mean you get off more Bleeding and reduces the consequences for missing with Freeze/Blind/Poison Grenades. Is the 15% bleed (which equates to around 1 bleed stack every 2-3 hits with 3 grenades) worth it?

2) It seems an awful lot of Condition Damage to give away for extra bit of burning with Lyssa runes. I haven’t really tested it so it is interesting – would love some theorycrafting behind that.

Apart from that, your clearly a very decent Engie

Nay shrapnel is not worth it IMO. In such a squishy build with few damage dealing sources you give up too much for the RNG. And lyssa runes used to be better before they fixed a bug and nerfed incendiary powder. The condi duration added up just right for the (almost) 100% burn uptime.

UPDATE:

Most of the builds listed are outdated, here are the three main ones I’ve been using recently

HGH Power Rifle
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlspSXHxShF17IyoCdmoHPGlNZfewWtFEC-TkAg0CnIyRFkLITOSds6MEB

I’ve mainly been using this build on battle for khylo. The ability to stop trebs and use jump shot to get around is just too good to pass up. Its strengths in comparison to condis is that it’s extremely strong for keeping downed people downed and AoEing on point from afar. The major problem with it is that it can be very difficult to 1v1 a lot of the more popular classes like eles and rangers. Aside from that it’s godmode with mobility and ranged damage potential, but again I still prefer condis on almost every other map.

You can swap out might duration runes for ogre runes against mesmers and s/d thieves to alleviate their boon rip potential.

Standard HGH condis
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalspSXHxShF17ICoC5loHPGlNZfewWpFEC-ToAAzCpICSpjTHTQycs5MWYKC

This is the tried and true HGH build that we all know and love. The main difference from before being that I’ve switched out elixir S for R and lyssa runes for 2 additional might runes.

You can swap out the might runes for undead/nightmare and short fuse for enhance performance if going against serious boon cleave comps.

New bomb/nade build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6ZHxShF1LJy4DdG4DAmoC53nHsVaBhA-ToAAzCpI+S9l7LzXyvsfNWYKC

After the changes to healing turret, roaming bombs became a lot more viable than before. This build is excellent in team fights and excels at doing the job HGH is supposed to do which is roaming DPS. With elixir R on reset it’s very easy to rez people and roam into a losin fight and still win. Bombs can be difficult to use as being on point usually means death, but careful use can make them work. This build is very weak to condis. Elixir R alleviates this a bit, but being forced to blow your thrown R for condi cleanses is never a good situation.

Post patch:

Tier S
nada

Tier A
BM Ranger = Engi = Ele = Guard = Thief

Tier B
Necro

Tier C
Warrior

Honestly all classes have a place in tourneys at the moment depending on comp and playstyle. I haven’t seen the game more balanced and diverse in builds (for most classes) as it is at the moment.

I really couldn’t be happier with where the game is going

My biggest problem with our downed state is our auto attack. RNG downed fights are the worst. The game mocks me and gives a billion kittening chills when we all know they aren’t doing jack kitten to the other guy throwing his rocks

Motoko.2875:

Vandal.8029:

Motoko.2875:

Please don’t try and make GW2 PvP look complicated. The gamemode itself is terrible. The downed state is terrible. You trying to make it exciting is just sad at this point.

Please don’t try and make your opinions of GW2 look like facts. I’m sorry that you think everything is terrible but that doesn’t do anything to support your argument.

I’m not saying that GW2 is a complicated game, but the down state does add an opportunity for teamwork and quick decision making. Why try to make it even less complicated?

I don’t have to make them look like facts – The fact that GW2 PvP is dead within 9 months of the release of the game due to the mass majority opinion that it is “terrible” does the job for me.

Why try to keep a mechanic in a game mode that the majority of players dislike in the first place?

Correlation does not imply causation. There are plenty of reasons as to why GW2 PVP is not as popular as it should be, the downed state is not one of them. I could say that the reason why the game is dead right now is because of dagger offhands, but we all know that’s simply not true.

What you’re asking for is a reversal of years of work on the game. The downed state works as it stands and is (almost) perfectly balanced. A sudden removal of the downed state would literally kill the game without massive changes to both classes and game type. To have such a huge overhaul when the game is so close to achieving something resembling what it should be would be incredibly stupid.

if I look at an engi and see his utilities, cooldowns, health, boons and watch him play for 15 minutes I can give you a build with 95% accuracy.

Spectator mode isn’t going to unveil some super secret uber leet build no one knew about. I hate to say it, but most good players can dissect your build in a single fight against you, let alone actually watching you play. Why not make it easier for nubs? It’s only a game and it helps new players.

jportell.2197:

Marginal condition damage? Correct me if I am wrong but don’t YOU brag about how much damage it does because of the might stacks. And didn’t YOU admit that this build was OP? OP=NEEDS A NERF… Plain and simple.

I never said marginal condition damage. I said that might stacking runes do the most damage by a very slim margin and they don’t do the most condition damage.

I think that a-net made the exact changes that they needed to make to HGH and while it remains a very strong build, it’s not kittenedly over the top anymore as it was before. I admitted that it was OP because it did so much damage, yes, but now it does substantially less damage in a lot of scenarios and requires much more attention to stacking condis than before. If the skillcap wasn’t high enough before it’s near insane to play properly now.

Both the incendiary powder and elixir S changes were huge hits to HGH. I’ve seen more engis running random builds than might stacking HGH engis in the last two weeks, a HUGE change from the last patch.

No, it’s not overpowered anymore. It’s balanced as is and fits its very niche role well. It has literally zero support and substantially reduced 1v1 potential outside of supply crate. The damage is very, very high if the engi roams free, but it’s not over the top anymore because we can’t faceroll burning like we could before

Again, it’s strong, not overpowered. Just like thieves, eles, guards and mesmers.

jportell.2197:

Ostricheggs.3742:

jportell.2197:

WALL OF TEXT

Wall of text again

Okay sorry about the difference on Power… IDK why I got the different number… In any case the large majority of what I said in this build HOLDS TRUE! And nerfing might stacking runes will solve a big amount of the problem here as it will no longer allow you to keep full uptime on an obscene amount of might stacks Once again no other class can spec this way and maintain this survivability INCLUDING MESMERS if we run full zerker and take the standard tourney Portal/IOL+(insert skill) WE ALSO HAVE ONE STUN BREAKER. I am not counting the sword because rarely do you actually have that when you need it and staff isn’t a stun breaker it just moves. If mesmers were to run the normal shatter build with no toughness what so ever and stack might runes the way this build does we would go down very fast… It simply will not work.
Most classes only keep one stun breaker so your point there is irrelevant. There is nothing you can say that will convince those like me that this build is not over the top. No other class in this game can do what this build does and survive.

Mesmers have one stun break, 3 invulns, a daze, perma vigor, USUALLY energy sigils and a large variety of CCs and utility. The movement on staff is more than enough to be considered a seriously strong defensive mechanism as well

HGH engis have one stun break and unreliable access to protection/vigor with the only hard CC being a 2 second stun on a 180s CD elite.

Yet again you continue to insinuate that the large number of might stacks are the problem, but I’m telling you AGAIN that’s simply not the case. It’ the best optimization of stats possible. It doesn’t mean it does the most damage, it doesn’t even mean it does the most CONDITION damage, it just has the most damage by a very slim margin. Your continued crusade, even if it’s successful as the devs listening to every word you say, will amount to nothing if you don’t understand the class and why it’s strong as is.

When you continually misguide, alter hard numbers and demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge about the build it’s very hard to take you serious when you emphatically beg for nerfs. For reals.

jportell.2197:

WALL OF TEXT

Again, a large majority of your knowledge about engis is flawed. Fast acting elixirs does not work on thrown elixirs.

Engis in rabid ammys max out at 2k power with 25 stacks of might.

The procced elixir B has something like a 90 second CD

Our condi cleanses are single, as in we can only remove one at a time. This is worse than a large majority of other classes cleanses and requires substantial knowledge of how condis stack and which ones are a serious threat. Furthermore, if we blow our thrown elixirs for might stacks we will get insta-gibbed by condi classes.

Our survivability lies in positioning, kiting and situational awareness. We are the primary targets in any team fight for the sole fact that we have one stunbreak and very little mechanisms to escape focus

The raw damage on grenades is substantially reduced because we have Z E R O crit damage. Nothing. No crit damage whatsoever. On the squishiest targets (zerkers mesmers/thieves) my hardest hitting nade will crit for about 600-800 MAX with a full 25 stacks of might (which takes about 40s-1m of being in combat). As far as condi classes go that’s a decent bit, but it’s definitely not 3k power with 100% crit damage like you’re implying

In your previous posts you said that incendiary powder is an AoE burn, which couldn’t be farther from how it actually works. If I throw a grenade at a ranger and it hits his pet as well his pet can receive the proc leaving me without it for a full 10 seconds;.

Finally, nerfing might duration runes won’t be that big of a hit to HGH builds. There are plenty of other rune sets out there that substitute it almost as well. It’s just that the optimal rune set for the build is might runes.

Honestly man, please learn the class and its strengths and weaknesses before you post anymore. I’m begging you.

Khenzy.9348:

Arganthium.5638:

Top 3 methods to countering might stacking:

1.Run a thief with your team.
2.Run a thief with your team.
3.Run a thief with your team.

Actually, if you are talking about the new Larcenous strike, that doesnt work at all on practice against Engineers. Lacenous Strike prioritizes Regeneration and Protection first and Might last. Between Fury, Vigor, Retaliation, etc. you wont be stripping those Might stacks any time soon, it’s even worse if you take into account the constant reaplication of said boons. You can’t spam FS>LS over and over again until you reach 0 initiative, it doesn’t work against an Engineer mindlessly spamming elixirs and granades, actually, granade Engies are a very hard counter to thieves currently due to the AoE nature of their damage. From a Thief, Warrior and Ele point of view I think their AoE damage is very overpowered right now, but that would be from any other class pow as well.

Larcenous Strike Might stripping works much better on Eles and Warriors becouse they gain might stacks through popping CDs, ramping up mid combat or performing more complex rotations, so you actually hinder them greatly if you take those might stacks off of them.

It also works very well on bunker eles becouse they tend to stay very little on water, just to do burst healing at the expense of prolongued sustain (which guardians excel at).

Surprisingly, I’ve found out to be pretty useless against guardians (DPS and bunker alike) due to their incombat and out of combat sustain, their play style which consists on pacing their knockbacks, immobilizers, etc. and just like Engies, the constant reaplication of boons they have.

With that said, Larcenous Strike is not nearly as good as everyone is claming it up to be, at least for boon stripping.

Well, this post ended up being more of a Larcenous Strike feedback one, but related to the topic just in part.

If a thief with larcenous strike touches my might stacks, I’m dead and my whole team is probably gonna die soon after.

It’s easier than you think to spam flanking strike and larcenous. With sword 2 you can bounce around the map at will. Flanking strike is an evade as well making it very difficult to deal with because of the fact that you have to dodge larcenous strike or you’re screwed

I don’t know what world you live on, but larcenous strike thieves give HGH engis a pretty good run for their money. Is it a hard counter? Probably not. But a hard hitting, mobile boon steal build against a boon stacking class with 2 dodge roles with no reliable access to vigor is pretty kitten strong.

jportell.2197:

google.3709:

5k 5s burn would mean is a 1k burn ? :P also this burn is single target on a 10s cd

also, Idk how well you play guardian, but just because you lose a 1v1, does it make the class/build too strong? if so we should take a look phantasm mesmers

That’s actually an AOE burn if you look at grenades which the HGH engi uses… So once again?

J, for the love of god will you please stop making posts about classes you don’t understand? It’s very clear that you don’t know even the most basic of concepts regarding engis. Furthermore you think it’s unfair that mesmers got their might stacking removed despite the fact that it was on a minor trait on an already extremely powerful and almost ubiquitous trait line. No mesmers ever ran battle sigils and might duration runes. HGH is a very very squishy build with nill team support outside of supply crate. It sacrifices everything to get and maintain might stacks, worst of all being utilities.

HGH has an extremely high skillcap, made even higher last patch with the changes to incendiary powder. I don’t think it’s overpowered anymore, not since the nerfs last patch.

Phineas Poe.3018:

hydeaut.1758:

This change both hits the Elixir and the auto-elixir trait where I could go into med-kit, which gave me heal-packs, speed, 1 condition remove, vigor if traited – no big deal, of course . . .

I don’t really see how you think a traited Elixir S having a stunbreaker, curing a condition, granting 2 stacks of Might, and giving 3-second immunity isn’t powerful enough on its own … on top of adding another stack of Might, curing another condition, and giving Stability/Stealth all in one utility slot.

This is QQ. Plain and simple.

Elixir S was changed alongside Mist Form because they do not want these skills to work like that. Not sure why people are so up in arms about this change.

Honestly it’s a huge change from what it was before. I would argue that before elixir S was THE BEST stun break in the game. Now it’s up in the air.

This is the biggest reason why HGH was “nerfed”. The number condis you could dish out even WHILE invuln was just ridonculous. Now that our only bit of survivability was damaged at the cost of both survivability AND damage I can justifiably say it’s a more balanced build than what it was before.

TL;DR I can see why people QQ about it, but it was needed.

Nirvana.8659:

Incediary powder , hard to call it a buff with all condition dispells every class can use.
I was able to proc it every time my enemy dispelled it.
Now,if they dispell it right after it proc,i must wait 9 seconds.Nice one.I don’t know if take it as a balance , or take it as a dps denial.But not a buff for sure!

Healing turret looks nice i must admit it.On the other hand elixier H is still unbeatble,is just a single click , while healing turret requires the time for deploy,overcharge,explosion(from a WvW prospective).

Confusion nerf….was prevedible . Still if an engineer is running only with P/P cond dmg set without an useless kit equipped , the #3 pistol skill lost his offensive/defensive potential (no all engeneer were running bombs or tool kit + pistol just to stack confusion like mad).

I’ll just take a break from engineer till my pessimism is gone , playing my easy mode thief or mesmer in the while , just to avoid useless headhache on what set should i invent now.

Sorry for my english.

There’s only a .5 second cast time on healing turret and both the overcharge and the detonate have no cast time allowing a very rapid heal. One button doesn’t make H better.

Terrahero.9358:

Chaith.8256:

I am extremely ashamed of this thread, guys. And I think all of you guys should wake up and smell the napalm. Here are the real facts:

• I can actually run Kit Based condi builds now, since healing turret can remove up to 8 conditions per minute, in chunks of 2 every 15s. This is a time to celebrate. Turret & gadget builds are indirectly less terrible now, too, from this huge healing turret buff.

• Bunker/support builds are amazing now, too. The healing turret, in addition to the base 2520 self healing, is like a 2520-3820 AoE base heal & condition clear for allies every 15-20 seconds, respectively. Clerics/shaman amulet healing is monstrous.

• Incendiary powder change, I dig. I am ok with loading someone up with 6 seconds of burning on my very first opener, since it’s 100% proc chance.

Engineer is one of the Strongest classes with more options than HGH.

old effect of Cleansing Burst: (from the wiki which hasnt updated to the new effect)

Overcharge your healing turret, supplying a burst of healing that cures all conditions.

Healing: 1,302 (0.2)?
Radius: 360

Thats also a 15sec cooldown.

So, lets recap.

-We went from all conditions removed, to 2.
-We went from most healing upfront, to a potential 3sec delay on half of your healing. (Screw your “i can spam buttan!”, join wvw, enjoy skill delay!)
-We got the full heal before, and 1.3k on overcharge. Now we get 50% upfront and the same on overcharge… so, where did the 1.3k overcharge we had before go?

I really dont see the buff here…

We went from 2 condis removed every minute to 2 condis removed every 15 seconds. We went from healing up front to 50% healing up front, 50% AoE healing immediately after with 2 condi clears and 5 s of regen (this is better than evasive arcana in water attunement, this is ridiculously strong as both support and self-heals) AND a near permanent water field interactable with the turret itself for detonation as well as other party members.

As far as skill delay goes, I can’t help that. No clue why it wouldn’t have effected the new healing turret more than the old one though. Seems like it doesn’t really have any bearing on the new turret really.

Honestly, how can you guys not be happy? This alone is a huge buff that opens up so many possible builds. I’m excited to finally have something to look forward to outside HGH.

Chaith.8256:

I am extremely ashamed of this thread, guys. And I think all of you guys should wake up and smell the napalm. Here are the real facts:

• I can actually run Kit Based condi builds now, since healing turret can remove up to 8 conditions per minute, in chunks of 2 every 15s. This is a time to celebrate. Turret & gadget builds are indirectly less terrible now, too, from this huge healing turret buff.

• Bunker/support builds are amazing now, too. The healing turret, in addition to the base 2520 self healing, is like a 2520-3820 AoE base heal & condition clear for allies every 15-20 seconds, respectively. Clerics/shaman amulet healing is monstrous.

• Incendiary powder change, I dig. I am ok with loading someone up with 6 seconds of burning on my very first opener, since it’s 100% proc chance.

Engineer is one of the Strongest classes with more options than HGH.

THIS. So many builds became viable with the change to healing turret. I’m a very happy engi.

Furthermore, the only thing “nerfed” about hgh is the new incendiary powder and elixir S. Both are big hits to HGH but it’s still viable. It’s just not monstrously OP anymore.

Nord.5360:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Mif.3471:

Grackleflint.4956:

Chaba.5410:

What was up with that talk about prybar as a counter for something? I don’t use toolkit in my wvw support build (except underwater).

Grouch was talking about how we are strictly a ranged class and Guardians can shut down our damage completely by popping their defensive bubble, to which Jon Sharp flippantly replied “Yeah, so.” Then Karl said something about going into it and using melee.

So apparently Guardians should fear our Wrench #1 dps!

He said we should use Tool Kit.

So basically they expect every Engineer to give up a utility slot and bring tool kit because they can’t be bothered to design the game with any intelligence.

Many guardians drop a utility slot JUST to grab the spirit shield if they so choose it. Most guardians don’t even run it anymore since anything without projectiles can breath on it and it’ll die. Its AI is also metrically kitten Any guardian would pick that up ONLY so that they can hard counter an engi. A better choice would be wall of reflection.

I don’t think grouch’s ire is well placed. A larger problem is the guardian’s minor trait that creates a shield of absorbtion around the downed player when they start to revive. It’s extra long and literally prevents any damage on body from a large majority of classes, especially engis.

I mostly brought it up in regards to the expanded spirit weapon health pools, not because I think it’s a problem on live. I don’t think it will be a problem post-patch either, just because it is so niche.

Sometimes my mouth just moves and words come out.

HE SPEAKS!
BOW BEFORE HIM PLEBS!

Mif.3471:

Grackleflint.4956:

Chaba.5410:

What was up with that talk about prybar as a counter for something? I don’t use toolkit in my wvw support build (except underwater).

Grouch was talking about how we are strictly a ranged class and Guardians can shut down our damage completely by popping their defensive bubble, to which Jon Sharp flippantly replied “Yeah, so.” Then Karl said something about going into it and using melee.

So apparently Guardians should fear our Wrench #1 dps!

He said we should use Tool Kit.

So basically they expect every Engineer to give up a utility slot and bring tool kit because they can’t be bothered to design the game with any intelligence.

Many guardians drop a utility slot JUST to grab the spirit shield if they so choose it. Most guardians don’t even run it anymore since anything without projectiles can breath on it and it’ll die. Its AI is also metrically kitten Any guardian would pick that up ONLY so that they can hard counter an engi. A better choice would be wall of reflection.

I don’t think grouch’s ire is well placed. A larger problem is the guardian’s minor trait that creates a shield of absorbtion around the downed player when they start to revive. It’s extra long and literally prevents any damage on body from a large majority of classes, especially engis.

Kalan.9705:

I think a few people might overlook that Engineer having no weapon swap, our abysmally tiny weapon selection (p/p, p/sh, rifle that is it), and also no ability to choose different / better sigils and stat setup on our other weapon swap are all very strong counters to the few upsides like swapping for battle procs.

Engineer can’t hchoose appropriate sigils for the toolkit versus the rifle, we don’t have that capability.

I used to think that too until I realized precisely how strong the nature of attunement swaps and kit swapping is as far as on swap sigils go for their comparative efficacy to other classes. Most other sigils have a relatively minor effect in comparison. Strength VS battle, for instance.

And plus, at any given moment any class can have 2 sigils active MAX. The same rings true for engis except that engis get a large bonus from being able to swap on demand.

And as far as diversification goes, I don’t think that happens very often at all on other classes since most just stack the same sigil twice over. The only one I can genuinely think of would be a ranger with earth on shortbow and geomancy on sword/torch.

I’m sorry guys, but a lot of these nerfs in the grand scheme of things are pretty justified and I saw most of them coming a mile away. I just hope they aren’t TOO harsh and I hope the buffs that come with them open up more possibilities for new builds.

I came out of SOTG pretty happy all in all, it seems like the devs know their stuff more than I thought.

Calae.1738:

The heavy armored warrior vs the cloth wearing Elementalist. Who would win in a race? Lets find out.

Warrior: One hand sword + Greatsword
Elementalist: Dagger + Dagger

Elementlist:
Ride the Lightning 1200 range 40 second cooldown.
Burning Speed 600 range 15 second cooldown.

Warrior:
Savage Leap 600 range 8 second cooldown
Whirlwind 450 range 10 second cooldown

10 seconds:
Elementalist covered 1800 range.
Warrior covered 2100 range.

20 seconds
Elementalist covered 2400 range.
Warrior covered 3150 range.

30 seconds
Elementlist covered 3000 range.
Warrior covered 4200 range.

Why would a Warrior with 8000 more base health and 200 more base armor have better mobility than the Elementalist?

I don’t understand.

It gets far more complicated when considering the issues that each class does or does not face, the efficacy of said classes in combat and the designated roles that each class plays.

Mobility in and of itself is not good when you can’t do kitten all in combat. It’s only one piece of the puzzle.

CriSPeH.8512:

Battle is so strong because we can swap our kits whenever we want?

What about the fact that we have no secondary and need to give up a utility slot for tht weapon swap.

When are we gonna stop getting penalties for having Kits as an OPTION?

(also just judging by the tone and lack of enthusiasim when they got to the Engie topic, not to mention calling Elixir S Elixir U, I have a feeling the devs spend more time fighting against Engies then fighting with them. They don’t seem to know how to balance or improve the profession at all.)

As far as the first part goes, having the opportunity to swap in and out of kits at ease while rotating in between important cooldowns on weapon sets/kits while still getting the added benefit of on swap sigils is what warrants the nerf IMO. Sorry to my fellow engis, but right now battle is just too kitten strong.

It’s different than having 2 weapon sets because being forced into a select set of weapons might not be smart in a particular situation and therefore won’t see the same efficacy as having battle on a kit. It’s like a necro swapping out of staff into s/d despite having marks up. We can switch to p/p and back to nades for the might at any given moment.

As far as the second part goes, that’s the exact exaggeration I was talking about earlier. Just chill people, let the patch come and THEN let the tears flow. Until then, who knows what’s gonna happen. Nothing is set in stone. They were just talking about quickness and elixir U like 3 minutes before they made the slip of the tongue confusing S and U. Come on.

And yes, the boon hate thing is worrying. BUT considering that thieves will be forced to take a sword mainhand, it’s likely to not have a huge effect. It’s also a chained skill, so it’ll be relatively easy to dodge. The limits to DPS put on s/d is why you never see it anywhere. Warriors getting 3% more damage per boon is almost laughable too.

Really the worst things that have already been confirmed are the incendiary ammo nerfs and elixir S nerfs. That’s gonna hurt, but if nothing else is drastically changed (I.E. HGH itself or battle or nade kit) you’ll still see plenty of HGH condi engis around for a while

Silentsins.3726:

Ostricheggs.3742:

The healing turret change is going to open up a LOT of builds for engis in tourneys. The lack of condi cleanses forces us 20 up alchemy, 15 up tools (with R) or 15 up inventions (with healing turret).

It’s a good change.

I don’t mean to sound hostile, I just know that people naturally react like idorts when faced with nerfs.

Healing turret changes sound confusing. The overcharge condition cleanse isn’t viable for pvp because the effect is delayed until the next regen pulse, not because of the cooldown. Also, what’s the point of the overcharge providing a water field if the pulses already do so? These changes sound like a net nerf if they don’t change the mechanics, but a net buff if they do. The changes also take what is basically our best burst heal and make it… something different. That’s certainly something to be wary about, even if it’s not necessarily alarming.

We’ll see…

---

After more than a decade of MMOs, one experience has always been a constant: people react badly to nerfs. This is even more true after people have devoted time and money to gear up for a build, and all that effort is rendered pointless. Why would things be different now? The only thing different about this game is instead of treating nerfs as a last resort, A-Net uses it as a primary balancing tool and seems oblivious to the negativity it causes.

Even worse sometimes A-Nets nerfs are reaaaalllyyy poorly though out…

But it was extremely difficult to justify the healing turret to begin with outside of a very very few select builds that seriously suffered from condi clear.

The overcharge acts instantly if you lay it and use it instantly.

I dunno, we’ll see. All in all I’m happy they’re changing it because it was one of the biggest impedements to build diversity on engis and it makes it so we’re not forced to grab elixirs anymore. It just depends on if it opens up good enough opportunities to justify the nerfs to our strongest builds (which were too strong IMO)

Penguin.5197:

Ostricheggs.3742:

EVERYONE CHILL THE kitten OUT!

Don’t start with the hyperbole again, please.

We have no idea outside, of what they’ve already said they’ll change, what’s going to happen.

They’re just my initial impressions but so far nothing really good from what they have said.

The healing turret change is going to open up a LOT of builds for engis in tourneys. The lack of condi cleanses forces us 20 up alchemy, 15 up tools (with R) or 15 up inventions (with healing turret).

It’s a good change.

I don’t mean to sound hostile, I just know that people naturally react like idorts when faced with nerfs.

EVERYONE CHILL THE kitten OUT!

Don’t start with the hyperbole again, please.

We have no idea outside, of what they’ve already said they’ll change, what’s going to happen.

Errant Venture.9371:

Q: What’re you planning on doing about the HGH Engi. you can’t look at this screen and deny that this stuff is OP. No class should be able to permanently maintain 20 stacks of might on itself.

Many other classes can with far more efficiency and less opportunity cost. The build becomes viable when you understand how stats scale with one another and how condition damage needs no other stat to be effective. It also doesn’t hurt that engis have been the best condi class in the game for a while now.

Let me try to explain this once and for all. This is your standard HGH build, the one I usually run:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalspSXHxSfF17ICoC5loHPGlNZfewWpFEC-ToAAzCpIyRFkLITOSds6MWYKC

With this build I can maintain 25 stacks of might in combat after about 40 seconds. The ENTIRETY of the build is devoted around might stacking while using our only viable source of stunbreaks/cleanses in elixirs.

So what many people don’t understand is that the build actually sacrifices a LOT to get these might stacks. As you can see, all runes, sigils, utilities, traits and amulet selection are dedicated to maximizing condition damage via might stacks. AKA we are not a normal class walking around in undead runes with 25 stacks of might with an earth sigil.

I have been hit by a thief thief in a normal backstab 25 30 0 0 15 spec for 15k before. That’s with about 15 stacks of might. Mind you, I have 2700 toughness. What he gains for having normal runes, sigils and a pure DPS spec via might from other sources is far greater than someone making might a direct aspect of their build and making the sacrifices needed to get it.

I’m not disputing that it’s not a very strong and pretty OP build. However, the implication that we’re just a walking might machine without making sacrifices to get and maintain that might is simply ridiculous.

Steroids in game, as well as IRL, have their side effects too :P

Who’s that guy with the sexy voice?

mmmmm

Zeke Minus.5720:

Grimwolf.7163:

You realize you’re perfectly capable of playing in free tournaments still. The only issue is that a loss affects your ranking, and they have a queue to get into.

Okay, that’s better.

My concern is mostly centered around the idea that the matches you can simply jump into are going to disappear. tPvP is not something you can normally jump into, it’s more of a team thing which is awesome.

It’s presumptuous to state what will and will not happen with cPvP and whether or not it’s going to take off with the majority of the population, but I hope it does well. It would be wonderful to see what kinds of match types players create, but the monetary barrier is going to be hard to overcome for those who only PvP and do not have a lot of gold.

I agree 100%.

I genuinely hope that custom arenas do not replace hotjoins. It would be worse for the community.

At least have a few dozen servers available that a-net still runs so players aren’t left to the hands of other players. That’s especially true if you can blacklist/whitelist/password servers.

Otherwise this is gonna do more harm than good. I understand it’s the best way to make a quick buck off all your hard work, but in the long run it’ll strangle for lack of casual and new players thrown into the brutal world of tourneys cuz they got banned for sucking for the 30th time.

jcbroe.4329:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Kaon.7192:

jcbroe.4329:

Grenix.1576:

Prior Stuff.

More Prior Stuff.

Prior Stuff.

This might just be true. Honestly the crux of the entire build is the absurd amounts of damage from burning. Burning has an EXTREMELY high base damage (8x the base damage of bleeds) and scales very well with condi damage (25 per 100 condi damage)

At 25 stacks of corruption it’s not rare to see 800 burn ticks in this build.

But the oddest part of it all is that it’s not the entirety of the build and we have less access to burning than rangers with a torch offhand and flame trap.

I agree and disagree at the same time. I agree about it not being the entirety of the build, but I disagree about having less access than rangers to burning.

I don’t fully disagree, rangers definitely have access to the lowest cooldown burning sources and some of the longest duration burns. But it is more so just a different type of burning application, because rangers do have to take those specific tools with long(ish) cooldowns (long in this case meaning if it were to be cleansed, the burn can’t just be reapplied).

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not disagreeing that rangers have powerful access to burning. But I feel the burning they can apply is a bit more predictable than the on crit proc which makes the on crit proc so strong. Rangers throw torch can be dodged, and nobody is forcing anybody to stand in a flame trap.

But with an engineer, even if you dodge the Blow Torch, there is still the constant threat of burning being applied through a trait, which in a condition build is A LOT of pressure that engis are able to apply, because the ICD on the trait is so low. Probably just a little too low.

Like you said, it isn’t really the crux of the build, but it sure isn’t a weak trait either. If there were more meta/viable builds for engineer, I’m sure this wouldn’t be the only time I would feel the trait needs to be examined and the ICD increased ever so slightly (like, 5s max). That’s only because I’m predicting that in the future, with other rabid amulet setups, it is still going to be a preferred trait, and as somebody mentioned earlier (that I agree with), having a cookie cutter build is the definition of something being imbalanced.

Yea, you’re probably right on the ranger burning thing. Incendiary powder IS very strong and allows engis to apply other condis at the same time which is far more powerful than just applying only burning.

What I meant was that throw torch and flame trap are both very strong and much easier to use than blowtorch is which is our only access to burning outside of incendiary powder.

But as far as cookie cutter builds being imba, I wouldn’t quite say so. The logic in that is flawed. A GS axe/shield warrior is cookie cutter, but it isn’t imbalanced by any measure.

Ostricheggs.3742:

1. Ele
2. Ranger/Guardian/Engineer
5. Mesmer/Teef
7. Necro/Warrior

Engis are good, guys. I swear to god.

saw that kitten a mile away. People didn’t wanna listen

JohnDied.3476:

Zenguy.6421:

waka.9826:

I talked to Hammon in game who is a dev and he said HGH is getting nerfed. Gadgets are not being worked on at the moment and basically nothing else lol.

If it does get nerfed there’d be no one else to blame but the engineer community. I’ve been asking guildies throughout this month (in a guild of about ~150) and no one thinks engineers are overpowered. Most (nearly all) haven’t even heard of HgH. There’s actually only three engineers in our guild (myself included) and we all just run whatever we feel like playing around with. No cookie cutter builds.

I literally saw 5 HGH engis in a tourney today. It’s the new FOTM. There’s almost always at least one aside from me in there.

aydenunited.5729:

Ostricheggs.3742:

timidobserver.7925:

I disagree with HGH being difficult. Well it can be difficult in PVE, but in any form of PVP you should do fine.

Wait, what? Can you explain this to me?

Two dodges, one stun break, lots of damage. HGH in a nutshell.

Every fight is a complex set of reactions. It’s a SOLELY reactionary class. You don’t determine the course of a fight, the other player(s) do. To imply that it’s easier in PvP is kinda insane.

You have, easily, the worst “great player” to “terrible and unhelpful forum poster” ratio I’ve ever seen.

I’m just confused at what he said. Not sure why he would say that it’s a difficult build in PvE where you’re throwing grenades at predictable/stationary targets with very little initiative to actually kill you outside of specific abilities. The stress involved in PvP makes throwing nades 3x harder.

Not sure how that’s terrible or unhelpful. I’m just sayin that it seems kinda odd unless I missed something.

jportell.2197:

google.3709:

might stacking makes the condition stronger but the build would still wok without it. the problem with people QQ and crying about build ( jport) is that they refuse to adjust build to the meta. and instead come o the forum and cry nerf so they can continue the same glass cannon shatter build.

and supply doesn’t go unnoticed vs 1 player, but on a zergs that’s all it is. a 2 second stun as our elite on a 180CD which can be blocked, dodged etc, and on tPvP that means nothing cause everyone has stun breakers. Supply is a killer only when you use the stun at the right time.

You act as if a 2 second AOE stun isn’t a big deal? on most maps the size of that AOE is the size of the node… And I have tried this build and I can see how crazy good it is when compared to others in this game… A 2 second AOE stun right now is more gold than timewarp in a team fight… And people may have stun breakers but the turrets make the fight a targeting night mare (kind of like minion necros) and give some decent advantages to your team… All while you are maxed out on might stacks lobbing condition after condition into the circle keeping in mind that few if any builds have as many different flavors of conditions as this build… It honestly only lacks fear and weakness… Everything else its got…. And to blindly defend something as OP as this while refusing to acknowledge that it has been said it’s getting nerfed is what really boggles my mind.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun

Kaon.7192:

jcbroe.4329:

Grenix.1576:

HGH is a strong trait. Its also our ONLY strong trait. The rest of Engineer is pure crap, and a lot of stuff is bugged. (snipe, deployable turret for example) Also our elixer U has been broken with new changes. Now 1/3 of time those skills do just nothing at all because they removed invisiblity barier from the RNG.. If you think Engineer is OP then seriously look at some thiefs/mesmer/elementalist.. They are gods that you cant even touch sometimes.

And turrets just dont work well in pvp OR pve.. maybe in a 1vs1? I dont want my engi for just 1vs1 with turret builds.

I wouldn’t say its the only strong trait. It is a very strong trait, yes. But Incendiary Powder is also strong, as proccing the strongest damaging condition in a condition build definitely is useful.

Not all of the classes have access to burning in the game, or are considered viable when building for that as opposed to building for something the metagame considers them strong at.

Not that it is an issue with the class either, but it isn’t like this particular trait is making condi engineers any weaker either.

I definitely share this viewpoint.

Incendiary Powder is much too strong for a 10 point trait. 33% 2s burn on a 3s internal cooldown is over 50% burn uptime with rabid amulet and grenade’s multi hit attacks. Compare this to many classes that don’t even have access to burning, or Ele’s Burning Precision that gives 1s burn on the same IC, or even Guardian’s virtue burn that gives 1s burn on every 5 attacks, and you can see how completely out of line it is.

Grenade kit doesn’t have access to burn naturally, and this would have kept things somewhat in balance if it wasn’t for this trait (i.e. there would be a need to switch to pistol and get in range for blowtorch to stack long burns, and confusion, grenade for every other condition).

In my opinion this trait is the biggest problem with the build, and is the only thing that needs to be toned down. Instead of nerfing anything else on the engy, we should try to bring other classes on par with the Engy’s access to the 4 major damaging conditions, and possibly, their access to might.

Here’s a list of what conditions other classes are missing at the moment:

Ele – Poison, Confusion
Guard – Bleed, Poison, Confusion
Warr – Poison, Confusion
Necro – Burn, Confusion
Thief – Burn, Confusion
Mesmer – Poison
Ranger – Confusion

Guardians and Thieves are in the worst condition (lol pun) right now when it comes to condi builds because Guardian only has access to burn, while Thieves have poison and bleed but cannot stack bleeds effectively enough to compensate for the lack of burn and its higher base damage.

This might just be true. Honestly the crux of the entire build is the absurd amounts of damage from burning. Burning has an EXTREMELY high base damage (8x the base damage of bleeds) and scales very well with condi damage (25 per 100 condi damage)

At 25 stacks of corruption it’s not rare to see 800 burn ticks in this build.

But the oddest part of it all is that it’s not the entirety of the build and we have less access to burning than rangers with a torch offhand and flame trap.

timidobserver.7925:

I disagree with HGH being difficult. Well it can be difficult in PVE, but in any form of PVP you should do fine.

Wait, what? Can you explain this to me?

Two dodges, one stun break, lots of damage. HGH in a nutshell.

Every fight is a complex set of reactions. It’s a SOLELY reactionary class. You don’t determine the course of a fight, the other player(s) do. To imply that it’s easier in PvP is kinda insane.