Guild Wars 2

silvermember.8941:

Get rid of the point system and just make it related to the bonuses and randomly pick matches based players population.

Been saying this since the head start (didn’t play in beta). Stop treating WvWvW as a mini-game/match to be “won” or “lost”. The only reason to have a reset after some period of time (1 week not, planned to be 2 weeks at some point in the future) is to prevent permanent dominance of one server. Other than that, it should be about the buffs/bonuses that a server can win/gain for itself by dominating in WvWvW (and they should be substantial enough that people really really want them, making them the goal/reason for WvWvW).

Selo.1250:

Cant remember really but wasent it also that you could only “equip” a couple of realmabilites, so even if you had enough points, you couldnt use them all?

No, all RAs were able to be used. Don’t forget that many were passives.

Wolvards.6973:

So what is the problem here? You are atacking a keep, and next thing you know there is a mesmer portal… But nothing comes out of it….

You’re right, there is a problem, but it isn’t what you think it is…

Wolvards.6973:

Not a “I got outsmarted i’m going to cry on the forums” post, or “Mesmer Portals are OP and should be nerfed!” post, but rather, “Mesmer portals and zergs are able to take advantage of the server rendering problem and it is a major problem” post.

Actually, it is. The humorous part is that you do not have a clue why. Perhaps you should stick to games with simpler concepts (though, this one is pretty simple) so you don’t have to struggle so much.

Mayama.1854:

Vexus.5423:

Waaaiiiittt aaa seeecconnnddd..

So, you’re telling me, the enemy zerg was more organized, and portaled into your zerg before you thought of portaling into their zerg, and you’re complaining about it? And you’re a mesmer? It’s like a mind trip trying to figure out how bad you have to be to blame others for your lack of skill and coordination.

If they can do it to you, you can do it to them, so get better.

If you dont understand why I made this thread than dont post, especially if its only random assumptions and flames.

Phaedryn.3698:

Is there anything you people will not cry about…you got hot dropped, deal with it.

flame flame flame not understanding the problem etc. etc. etc.

I understand it just fine. I understand that the mesmer in question is taking advantage of culling. I also understand that if your zerg is actually getting wiped by this, it is your own fault, as there are a number of ways to deal with it that are not dependant upon players being rendered. I also understand that you probably do not understand this last point, which is why the crying.

Is there anything you people will not cry about…you got hot dropped, deal with it.

Swift.3812:

didn’t screen shot. if you believe me, cool. If u don’t believe me, go ahead.

It’s not a matter of belief, it’s a matter of wondering why it’s worth a post. It should be an expected occurance.

Swift.3812:

you will see “don’t attack ET” every 10 mins.

And the issue is?

Hald Degli Strock.1304:

I played in Fissure of Woe for a While. Then I swtiched sides in order to see how’s the game from a 3-orbs point of view. Then I waited until 2:00 AM the reset, trying to improve my server status. Opposing team zerged all 3 orbs in 10 minutes, then built all upgrades in each keep, there was nothing we could do. Orbs should start in garrison or should be movable by you own team. This would fix a lot.

This I can agree on. The initial placement of the Orbs makes it far too easy for a server to aqcuire all the within the first hour of a reset. Subsequent attempts to take the orbs face much higher natural defenses. If anything, this should be flipped.

Or, you know, get organized?

Orbs are fine as they are, if you are getting steamrolled now you will still be getting steamrolled if they are removed. It is happening, not because orbs exist, but because you cannot organize and communicate effectively. Orbs are just a rationalization, if they get removed you all will just find something else to claim is causing your poor performance (and, obviously, will need removing also).

Creslin.1758:

Basically, no one has an issue with a skill, until it’s actually useful. And then all of a sudden, OMG OP.

FTFY

Small group roaming/skirmishing – Short Bow + Axe/Horn
Sieging or open field zerg on zerg – Long Bow + Axe/Horn

Essentially, short bow is for mobility and long bow is for stand off.

Zenyatoo.4059:

Because of the karma and diminishing returns you probably wont see them for a short while.
But rest assured, as soon as one is made you know that person is gonna be showing it off in LA, and we’ll all know about it.

Eh, I get FAR more karma doing WvW than I ever would doing DEs. Sitting on close to 250k karma and I only really play on the weekends.

Since WvWvW is the closest thing to DAoC’s RvR since DAoC, and that is it’s appeal, no it isn’t. Now, if the folks crying to make WvWvW dumbed down succeed, then it will.

So why is it that I, as a Ranger, can be at the top of a cliff and see a fight below, but if I attempt to shoot anyone I get an out of range message? Does gravity not work on arrows in GW2? I could DROP and arrow and be guaranteed it will hit the ground, so how can anything be “out of range” straight down.

HellsMachine.4083:

The devs stated from the start that Guild Wars 2 was supposed to be about everyone being able to play on a level playing field.

When I go up against someone that has 15% more HP and 150 more than all stats, this is not level. If I wanted to play game that was all about stats, I wouldn’t be playing GW2.

Take these performance enhancing orb buffs away and replace it with something else.

You have a citation for the claim that the devs have stated that? Because every aspect of WvWvW proves that false.

Next you will demand that everyone have exactly the same stats, right? After all, you have already stated that “When I go up against someone that has 15% more HP and 150 more than all stats, this is not level.” Oh, and I guess there should be only one class, with just a single build.

For the record, I play on a server that is currently fighting against a server with all 3 orbs. I will let you in on a secret, the orbs are fine. I can promise you, if they change the orbs you will just find something else to blame on your losing (and no doubt come to the forums demanding it too is changed).

Cavalorn.8057:

What puzzles me most about orbs is that an attacker who grabs one is much more able to keep hold of them than the initial defender. The defender’s orb spawns in the cradle, which isn’t exactly the most defensible spot on the map, but once an attacker gets their hands on it they can take it to a keep.

Unless I’m much mistaken, the only way the side who owns an orb can take it to a keep is by intercepting it once it’s been stolen and then taking it to an altar. That seems completely backward to me. The only reason I can see why we can’t just grab our own orbs from the cradle and take them straight to our garrison is to prevent griefing, i.e. joe kitten grabs orb and takes it straight to the enemy. But surely we could use some sort of a waypoint system and choose to teleport our orb from the cradle to one of our keeps?

The current system is also another ‘snowball effect’ in so far as it favours a strong attacking side; if they can grab the orb fast, they can defend it far more easily than could the side where it spawned. So an initial, situational advantage becomes a more permanent advantage.

Now this is a valid concern.

Soba.3041:

Phaedryn

I play to compete. I don’t do PvE or crafting. Nor do I care that my server is in third although my goal is to change that through my competing. I don’t care that maps all green when I jump on although I will do everything I can to change that too. I would WvW if there were no points! I’m a journey over destination guy thus winning isn’t really that important to me either. I could die 30 times and win once but as long as the fights I am in are not whitewashes but competitive tactical fights then I am one happy camper.

I can’t stand the Orbs because they automatically give one side an advantage for no good reason( in my person opinion of course) thus tilting the competition when I come across other players either solo or in groups into one sides favor. I really don’t care if the Orbs were taken after 10 hour long sieges or 15 minute nightcaps. I really just want them gone. I wouldn’t care one lick if they enhanced PvE or crafting but when it impacts the competition when players face off against other players then I think it is detrimental to the game.

First, I don’t PvE or craft either. Hitting 80 meant I no longer needed to. If you posted that to respond to my calling for Orbs to affect PvE, you don’t understand my reasoning at all. I want to bonus given by the Orbs to be so influential that everyone and their brother will drop what ever they are doing to get, or defend them. I want the bonus so big that it cannot be ignored.

“I could die 30 times and win once but as long as the fights I am in are not whitewashes but competitive tactical fights then I am one happy camper.”

I think this is part of the problem frankly. You make this about fights, and tactics. That is what sPvP is for. WvWvW is about leadership, coordination, communication, and strategy (not tactics). Individual effort means absolutely nothing. You individual build means absolutely nothing. there are no individuals in WvWvW, only your side and the enemy. You want personal competition, that isn’t WvWvW.

I’m willing to bet you have not played DAoC or (to a leser extent) Eve Online, correct? Most of your PvP has probably been in battlegrounds or arenas that is the most prevalent form of PvP in MMOs? This is not that, at all, never was meant to be that. This is a paradigm shift for you (and, apparently, many others) and what annoys me is that rather than adapt to that you want ANet to change it…make it more familiar. There are a lot of out here who do not. We see that form of game play as 1) inferior and 2) already existing in GW2 in the form of sPvP and we would rather not have our WvWvW dragged down to that level.

Eli Stormstrike.8637:

Could someone tell me why these forums are filled to the brim with people who constantly whine about how others complain or make suggestions?

In this thread alone, there’s perhaps 5 people who have said “Well, you know, in DAOC, relics didn’t reset and we would spend 15 hours per day digging a hole with a spoon under the enemy camping our spawn so we could get out the other side; those were the good old days, so stop complaining and be happy!”

The fact is that these so-called oldschool MMO’s are all dead or dying because of those mechanics, and GW2 will go right down the gutter aswell unless adjustments and changes are made to compensate for e.g maldistribution of server populations, which in turn leads to massive queues on some servers and no queues on others, and this will inevitably lead to people quitting because they are tired of getting steamrolled or tired of being in queue for 2+ hours, leading to server merges and consolidation in a downward spiral until all that’s left are the nostalgic hardliners who complain about people making suggestions on forums.

In other words, you won’t try to choke of debate, discussion and legitimate grievances that people put forward if you like this game, the reason people don’t just quit and go to another game is because they like this one.

Actually, those mechanics are why DAoC is still alive and going on 12 years. It’s decline is due a number of other factors, but the RvR isn’t one of them.

It’s the newer generation of MMO folks, mostly brought in by wow, that are the death of the genre. Those who need everything as dumbed down as possible, or need their hands held through everything. You see it all over this forum, people who look a WvWvW and cannot fathom finding a solution to win other than come to the forums and cry, insisting that ANet make it all better for them. Of course, it wont end with this issue, if they get there way there will be another, and another, and another. It’s the mindset that is at fault, the players why need to be pandered to, not the game.

Slamz.5376:

They just need to start displaying WvW populations. My drop-down list should say:

Eternal (100% full)
Green border (85% full)
Red border (15% full)
Blue border (33% full)

From this I can gauge that Eternal probably has a queue, green has no queue and enough players to fight with and red and blue are probably a waste of time.

Lack of information makes the population issues worse.

Our alliance has divided the responsibilities for the various borderlands to different guilds. This means that where most of us go is based on need (given the situation on the map) not the population. I would rather just have access to the maps for each zone.

This is definately a large contributor to the issues in WvWvW right now. The lack of tools to facilitate coordinating the large numbers of people that WvWvW is supposed to be about is a fairly major oversight.

No, forced ballance is a horrid idea.

Why have points at all? All that does is lead to a win/lose mentality and make the (eventually) two week match-ups nothing more than extended “games”.

Soba.3041:

Tarnin

I was using hyperbole. I realize the bonuses are not as dramatic as my analogy but they are nothing to sneeze at either. 15% more hit points+ gains from 150 more in Vitality probably means a guys stays up long enough to get 1-2 shots off that someone on the other side wouldn’t get off plus he is hitting harder. Now multiply that affect over 50 players confronting an equal number of unbuffed opponents. They’re pumping out a lot more damage over the course of an engagement because they last longer and hit harder.

Pheadryn: Never played DAoC. If there was no Orb would you not bother to do WvW?

If there were no server/realm rewards for doing so? I would, but not for very long. I do not care if there are no idividual rewards for WvW, they could remove them all and it wouldn’t matter to me. I fight (play) in WvW for my team, my faction, my server and for fun. My bigest complain with most forms of MMO PvP is that it is meaningless. People fight (play) for some set period of time then everything simply resets. Nothing changes, there is no effect on your faction/server for success or failure. I see it as pointless. I want something to fight over, something WORTH fighting over. To be quite honest, I think the buff from orbs needs to be buffed and it needs to affect PvE as well. Make it big enough that people log in and get ready to do a dungeon and the first thing they do is check to see if they have orbs, if not the go do WvWvW to get orbs so they have that buff for their dungeon run. I want the buff big enough that everyone on the server WANTS it, badly. I want the orbs (and their buff) to be THE focus/reason for WvWvW.

Why do you assume world map completion is PvE? I think is quite obvious from your very question that it is not.

notebene.3190:

Thanks for the information.

It’s cost prohibitive to me, especially when I keep falling and dying trying to get to vistas, which after dying 10 times, got me thinking I should ask if there was an easier way besides “not being bad”, which is not something I can correct.

Falling damage deaths do no incur armor damage. Use this information wisely

(meaning, fight near a fatal fall whenever possible to “avoid” paying repair costs)

I am only here for one reason, WvWvW. Couldn’t care less about any other aspect and (assuming ANet doesn’t cave in to the crying an trivialize the whole thing) it is what will keep me here for some time. If they actually manage to make it as good as DAoC’s RvR, I will be here for years. Expansions will not be necessary to keep me playing, and will actually detract from the fun (especially if they ever increase the level cap).

Ruith.5861:

tarnin.1690:

You just need to go play another game. You have a very dystopian view of this one.

So real life is utopia? You miss my point.

While I think about it, there are far too many comments I read in game and on the forums where people say things like “well, you should just quit the game then if you don’t like it!”

It’s the kind of comment made by someone who is probably happy with what they have (i.e. probably a winning server) and doesn’t want to admit that success in GW2 actually CAN be bought for real world money (please give me the reasoned argument explaining why it cannot and I will reply).

Of course, he may just be on one of the many losing servers and have quit WvW some time ago and has merely been oblivious to how awful the situation is getting.

I won’t be going to play another game, contrary to his advice. The rest of GW2 is awesome, and the fact that I need Badges of Honor for my Legendary means I simply must get into WvW. I am allowed to voice my opinion on how I feel about the product I have paid for, and I think I speak for a lot of other players out there.

:)

And yet you continue to completely misunderstand the issue at hand…what a surprise.

Soba.3041:

Every time I think about the orbs I just shake my head at the game designer who thought this was a good idea. Here’s my baseball analogy:

Team1 has the lead after the first inning so they get 4 outs now instead of 3. Team 1 has the lead after 2 innings so they now get 5 outs instead of 3. Team 1 has the lead after 3 innings so they now get 6 outs instead of 3.

At this point said game designer decided that given any more benefit to Team 1 ,who was not just already winning but pulling away even for some strange reason, that any more buffs to them would imbalance the game to the point that Team 2 & 3 just wouldn’t be able to compete. You think?

I’ve been in some back and forth battles with a server that had all 3 orbs and all I could think was how bad would we be mopping the floor with them in this battle if their guys were dropping that much quicker.

You mean way back in 2001? Or the GW2 designer that looked at 11 years of awesome that is DAoC and use the relics as a model?

Wait…you make a GUARDIAN and then compain you have too much survivability?

Spawn.7014:

The patch from 2 days ago goes down in history as one of the worst patches in MMO history. *

what do you think they will nerf next?
PVE in a nut shell has already been Nerfed.

my guess is gems will be used to repair items and use waypoints or even better you must use 1 gem for every trading post auction created or bought.

New to MMOs are you?

Does anyone else find this feature causes them to intentionally insert words they know will be filtered (in creative places of course)? It’s almost become it’s own game with me. I start thinking, “not enough kittens” when writting a post…

Gavello.2813:

I’ll let you guys into a little secret on how they got up there…..
.
Psss… yes hush hush
.
.
Look down a little further, this is classified information you know.
.
.
.
.
They swarmed into your spawn and b-lined for it until they got a mesmer up there who could teleport the rest, many bothans (and Ruin) died obtaining this information so remember their sacrifice.

I believe this video is more about just mocking the server for constantly stating that this was legitimate siege placement so they agreed, alright, your right, lets go up there ourselves if that’s the case.

Hahaha….that is kittening awesome!

Gordunk.7289:

Phaedryn.3698:

Sigh…this again.

No. Orbs are fine. ANet should not be making changes to WvWvW to compensate for the players poor attitudes or inability to organize. I cannot believe the attitudes of MMO players these days, it is really depressing to see what the player base has been reduced to.

I’m not saying they have to. What I’m saying is that Orbs provide a snowball mechanic that make the people who are already good, better, and make it harder for the worse servers to do even remotely well. This does not encourage better organization or better play, it encourages people to sit out WvW when they have very little chance of winning. It would be one thing if the matches only lasted 24 hours, but now that they’re up to a week and soon 2 weeks, it’s simply watching one server dominate for 2 weeks, when, realistically, WITHOUT orbs, they would still dominate, just slightly less so.

PLEASE tell me what orbs ADD to WvW, because right now I just am not seeing it.

You know this isn’t new, or unique right? DAoC had relics, owning all three of the same type gave an entire realm (in our case the entire server) a 30% bonus to damage (this included the little level 1 alt just made and grinding out mobs in the starter area, it wasn’t confined to the RvR zones). Relics also never reset on their own, nor was there any sort of population cap in place. We didn’t have the luxury of waiting out a timer and having everything go nuetral. If the other factions had the relics, our ONLY recourse was to go get them. Guess what, we managed just fine for years. We didn’t cry that another realm had all three then roll over and play dead. Relics were THE focus of RvR, the reason to be out there fighting (well, that and ownership of Darkness Falls).

So yes, they add to WvWvW…from my perspective they ARE WvWvW.

Bloodtau.4672:

WVW is pve with players. Nothing more.

Hrmm…

One of us is doing WvWvW wrong…

Hali.9381:

That would be 4pm PST then… are we sure it isn’t midnight PST for change up? What was it when this match started?

It’s always been 4 pm PST (4:08 actually). It was this same time when it was only 24 hrs as well.

Ruith.5861:

Phaedryn.3698:

The problem you (and many others on this forum) seem to be having is one of expectations.

You are correct in saying that the problem is one of expectations. Most of us expect an enjoyable experience that is competitive. Most of the great team activities on this planet are based on good competition. The ones that are not have been lost by the wayside, the rejects in the evolution of games.

Competition is what this post is about. It’s not about what WvW was “intended” to be. It is clear that it was intended to be imbalanced. I am in complete agreement. But it just isn’t good competition. That’s my point. It is a point that I read about in game, on here, and elsewhere on the internet about this format that is increasingly irritating people.

You cannot ignore the fact that there are thousands upon thousands of players who are unhappy at what they had expected to be an enjoyable competition when they first bought the game to turn out to be just another server dash that results in bizarre, other-worldly matchups that have no reflection whatsoever on real human interactions that can trigger enjoyable experiences in customers.

From a business point of view, it is illogical to have one server happy and the other two unhappy if you also intend there to be an equal distribution of players across the three servers under consideration. Therefore, the intentions of the creators of WvW must have been for the vast majority of people who want to engage in WvW to move to the winning team server by purchasing tokens. The longer the matches, the more entrenched the winning team gets, the more people on the losing teams decide to hop servers for the while. Maybe whole guilds will move. Just you wait and see, it’s very clever in design, and it will make money.

If you still think it’s a decent competitive activity, then you are a mug.

As I said above, you might be happier sticking to a style of game play that meets your expectations rather than insisting one that was not designed for that be changed to placate your. sPvP is there for this very reason.

MrPicklez.6473:

Igolbug.7295:

Why did relics in DAoC give the team holding them buffs?

Wait, the same relics that also made guards weaker? The guards that are completely ineffective in WvW so that can’t be implemented?

People serioulsy need to stop comparing WvW to DAoC. If you want to make these unfounded comparisons, you need to look at the advantages that GW2 already gives to the team with numbers that were not provided to the DAoC zergs.

-Most AOE’s have a 5 target limit. No more rolling around in 8 man squads like you could in DAoC and wrecking unorganized zergs.

-Downed state. Nothing to say here, really. If you can’t see how this scales well with numbers and makes it hard to fight outnumbered, you probably shouldn’t be commenting on the issues at hand. At the very least rallying to NPC’s should probably be removed.

-Playerbase. I’m sorry, but in DAoC most people actually enjoyed the PvP and the competition. At least on the server I played on. Alb was a zerg and Mid and Hib were complete underdogs, but you never really saw Alb gate camping for days on end like you’re seeing the ET players doing. People actually wanted a good fight, maybe because there wasn’t a points system. (Note: I’m not playing against ET, just commenting on the screenshots). In DAoC you couldn’t really “win”, unless you cared about controlling a farm zone. There were no points, there was jut PvP for the sake of PvP, and relics.

-Timed matches. It’s much harder to organize a multi-server organization in one or two week matches. In DAoC your realm tended to be the underdog—permanently. In this game, not so much. When do you choose to break off an alliance? How do you get every guild to agree to one? What happens when servers get mixed up and you’re now the top dog?

Basically, they aren’t the same game. My server is currently winning WvW (Dragonbrand), but I still feel that the orb buffs should be removed. Orb buffs are not only a huge bonus, but you also get another bonus for having the most points (?!?!?!). Why get a 15% HP bonus and 150 stat bonus for the orbs, on top of the 10%ish robust bonus when you’re winning. I just… don’t understand.

First, let me go ahead and get this out of the way. You and I have had this discussion in the past and for the most part agree that there are mechanics in place in GW2 to affect the comparison between it and DAoC.

I agree with the AoE difference, and it needs to be changed in GW2, at least in WvWvW.

I agree with the Downed state issue, and it needs to be changed in GW2, at least in WvWvW.

I both agree and disagree with the player base issue. However, I saw plenty of PK and MG camps in DAoC. This was especially true during a relic attempt. It was advantageous to bottle up the home realm when you were making a relic attempt. This leads us to GW2, where due to the supply mechanic it is advantageous to bottle up an enemy for as long as possible.

I agree with the timed matches being an issues, and while I personally would rather have permanent matching I understand why ANet chose to do it this way. When the matches go to two weeks it should alleviate this issue somewhat.

However, unless something changed in the past few years (after I left the game) relics did not make RK guards weaker. You have a fixed number of guards, and if you split you relic types (tried to keep both Strength and Power relics) then your guards were split between both RKs. However if you focused on one type only it made no difference if you had 1, 2, or 3 (from the stand point of guard strength).

Having said all this, I will repeat what I have said in other threads I have replied to you in, these are not reasons to dumb down the mechanics of GW2 (removing/altering Orbs of Power in this case), but rather reasons to alter the mechanics listed above to facilitate a stronger/better WvWvW experience.

Igolbug.7295:

Why did relics in DAoC give the team holding them buffs?

Shhh…apparently we are supposed to forget that game existed! Didn’t you kow, all these issues are new and unique to GW2 so, obviously, the developers MUST address these issues!

Since I cannot watch from work, anyone want to give me the clif notes version?

whiran.1473:

You can server transfer to other servers.

The problem is human mindset: Very few people want to join a losing team. Most people want to join a winning team.

Since you can transfer -to- a winning (and long queue time) server that’s what most people do.

I would like to see server transfers closed to higher population servers. That would start the cycle of stabilization of populations. Plus, we cannot forget that a number of players will simply stop playing GW2 soon from having played their fill of it.

Or, in many cases, we are on a server with many friends who we have played with for years and have a well developed relationship with other like minded people on the server. Not to mention our guilds have a lot of upgrades that we lose access to by transfering.

Bloodtau.4672:

WVW isn’t PVP, simple.
It’s a way to earn fast xp and karma and nothing more.

You seem to have an odd definition of PvP. That, or you are doing WvWvW wrong.

Ruith.5861:

So why is WvW nothing like real team sports?

Because that was never the intent? For your team sport analogy, look to sPvP as that is exactly why it exists. There is a reason why GW2 offers both. WvWvW is a 3 server free for all. It was never meant to be about ‘fair’ fights, it is all about mass (virtual) combat where strategy is more important than tactics. The problem you (and many others on this forum) seem to be having is one of expectations. You expect WvWvW to simply be a larger “battleground” type of game when in fact it’s roots are based more in DAoC’s style of RvR (with concessions made to things like time limits on matchups).

Honestly, I find the differences between WvWvW and RvR to be the largest problem. The limited duration of the matches, the scoring system, the population limits (and corresponding queues), and the very watered down bonuses all create a much less dynamic (and enjoyable) experience.

tarnin.1690:

Phaedryn.3698:

Sigh…this again.

No. Orbs are fine. ANet should not be making changes to WvWvW to compensate for the players poor attitudes or inability to organize. I cannot believe the attitudes of MMO players these days, it is really depressing to see what the player base has been reduced to.

Have you seen the WoW forums? A lot of those players are here. I actually expected it to be worse. Man, I miss the DAoC forums of players complaining about other PLAYERS and not how the game wasnt ezmode for them. Sigh.

Yeah, that’s actually the problem. Before wow, the MMO player base was much smaller and had completely different expectations (remember taking months to hit the level cap, and real death penalties?). Then wow comes along and greatly inflates that player base with a huge number of players that have an entirely different mindset. Worse, wow reinforced that mindset until it become “standard”. It has been one of the primary causes of the decline of the genre.

Can you imagine if a game with mechanics like DAoC had was released today? Hell, just try releasing a game with real support classes that have nearly zero offensive capabilities.

The armor color is something I really don’t like. It makes quickly identifying enemies entirely too easy.

SoPP.7034:

‘WvW is designed to accommodate players that would not normally participate in PvP’, according to Anet. I don’t see how that statement supports being 100% dominated?

I never udnerstood the thought process that went into that quote. History should have told them that it was entirely wrong.

Bloodtau.4672:

Lol, people thinking WVW is actually something….

You mean besides the primary reason many of us are here and one of the largest aspects of end-game in GW2?

As to the OP’s challenge. Would love to, but since our entire alliance is here, and it is the organization of that alliance that is actually the important factor, it would be meaningless. Also, as long as we lose access to all of our upgrades I would not even consider it.

Sigh…this again.

No. Orbs are fine. ANet should not be making changes to WvWvW to compensate for the players poor attitudes or inability to organize. I cannot believe the attitudes of MMO players these days, it is really depressing to see what the player base has been reduced to.

Bloodtau.4672:

Way to exploit. You are a shining example to the games players…

Exploit? Not seeing the exploit here.

tarnin.1690:

These are the same arguments that DAoC had but instead of aussies it was mandarins playing and capping at night. Guess what, that got fixed when they merged the servers into clusters (and now i guess its one big cluster) and relics could be taken right back. The only real issue we had in DAoC was low population, at this time there really isn’t much of a population issue as the game is so new. The issue here is people looking at the WvW score and just not even queueing up. They are beaten before they even start. This isn’t a game issue, its a player mentality issue. So many players coming from games that hand them everything on a silver platter that when they actually have to work for something against non scripted encounters, they wont.

Before the current clustering on Yak’s Bend, we were getting our butts handed to us on every 24hr roll over. So many people just did not queue. Now that we are top dogs in this pairing, all the people sitting around LA spamming /map saying how it sucks are now out there. Most people just want the ezmode win and thats it. Look at DAoC, albs were top for so long because of the ezmode classes originally and massive population. Anet tried to do away with that with all the classes being the same, just server v server and STILL people complain that its “unbalanced”.

This. They really need to just remove the scoreboard from the game. It serves no useful purpose.

Too long? It’s far too short. The very fact it is timed makes some people just quit the moment they are the underdog because they know it will reset. Make longer and remove the scoring entirely.