@Bishop thats funny when i read your first post i was like Bishop from Iseult…..
i tried to have alot of toons so i didnt make it out in RVR till after a while, but i do remember fighting bedlam, echoic had moved onto his savage Sushi. I ran with terror squad with briaan, and Audigy. then Toa came out and i moved to the stealth game. anyways i think its cool that i always run into people that i played a game with 10 years ago lol
I run 30/20/20/0/0 on my D/D thief with alot of stealth for survivability. i rarely die and can still do the high damage backstabs. play a hit and run thief, but because of 15 in deadly arts my target is always weakened so i can go toe to toe with alot of people if i want to.
im 20 in teh stealth line for Steal stealth and i use mug, immobolize poison goes off from mug so now i have a free backstab
well if your D/D it gets alot easier once you get good at landing backstabs, also try to get down teh strategy of attacking for 3 seconds then dodging away as this makes alot of damage on you miss.
At first i thought you were talking about DAOC Paladin, and i was really interested, then i opened it and it said WoW and it made me sad
does this spell heal you aswell or just allies?
Guardian is the only class i have trouble with on my thief, there are some other classes that people play well and i will lose or have trouble with in close fights but it seems like most fights withs guardians i die or have to stealth away.
Yesterday i actually made a guardian to start leveling and playing. also so i can figure out how to beat them with my thief :P
Alot of people here came to GW2 for the WvW endgame, basically anyone who played MMos bfore WoW.
WoW turned endgame into PVE raiding and honestly i dont see how raiding could be considered endgame because the point of raiding is to get better gear, getting better gear is still building your character for an endgame. While WvW didnt turn out exactly how alot of us that came from DAOC wanted it to be. it still gives you purpose and a reason to build your character, so you can go and fight for your server
Thief is fine the only problem is a few abilitys that cause powerful abilities to do insane damage. (assasin signet 150% damage on next attack) and (quickness, you put out double damage basically)
take away assasin signet and those 15k damage crit backstabs are 10k damage. with no crit it would have been only 4.5k damage.
also other classes have the ability to do extreme damage. most just dont spec or gear for it.
put poison cloud at 1200 so i can do that with cluster bomb and i will be happy.
In keep sieges poison cloud is very effective, especially if you are 15 in deadly arts for lotus poison.
poison cloud + cluster bomb with bouncing arrows between will kill the people on the ram /door. you just have to time it so teh enemys are all targetting somone else on the wall away from you.
@Mayama, well i guess its how you look at it. But it makes sense to me and alot of people because it has requirements that cause it to be unsuccesful alot of the times. those being Stealthed, which is something that is not always rdy for you and you have to be behind your target. mainly a suprise opener as the name suggests. if the target knows your there or is already attacking you it is very hard to land teh attack from behind.
But the biggest factor would be is that it is a melee attack that puts you right in the fight with high danger(thieves are very squishy and die fast aswell) (more risk more reward)as opposed to other class abilities that are ranged where you are safer.
The way things are going and how people just seem to complain about lots of damage I feel there will be a Backstab nerf.
The problem isnt backstab tho it what it does with other abilities / traites. These massive hits are coming from glass canon builds using Backstab + 150% damage signet along with a trait that gives 5 stacks of might for using that signet.
example, a 15k crit backstab would have only been around 9k damage without the signet and might. the actual backstab without a crit would have been around 4.5 k damage.
the majority of dagger / dagger thiefs do not use this. but if you nerf backstab you are going to hurt all the thiefs that arent causing these massive damage backstabs.
Backstab should be the most damaging ability in the game but not what it is currently doing. My suggestion would be to adjust the 150% damage signet, remove it or adjust how it works with might and crit damage.
I think the only way to fix the backtsab complaints would be adjust the 150% damage signet, that button right there is adding 4k to 5k damage on those crits.
If they just lower the damage of backstab it will only hurt the players that arent using it with signet and 100% crit chance builds. (like me) that arent the ones causing crazy damage complaints to begin with.
And yes you have to factor in the ability needs you to be stealthed and behind the target. that right there causes much less backstab attemps and successful back damage. also look at what the ability damage dwelves for compared to heartseeker’s full damage dwelve, its not very much more.
Wait…………. so your group chased ONE person off a cliff in an unfair numbers match where he used clever tricks and timing to kill you all at the bottom? sounds like karma and gods justice to me! you guys deserved to die
and You didnt have to follow him!!!!
4 days give no sense of accomplishemnt and people wont try because the reset is too soon
the free server transfer are temporary. for the beggining of the game, it will end soon
If melee is useless in WvW why do so many people complain about thieves killing them in 4 seconds…….
Even in standoffs my thief can shodowstep into the enemy group, down my target and still USUALLY get away without dieing.
Here is another idea, if your melee built, dont stick around a stand off that is a ranged battle.
Let me clearify, i was not saying a thief is better than a ranger at anything, i was just saying a thief is effective with a shortbow at defending a keep
WoW i wasnt expecting any of that…… most people look at the thief as just a 1v1 class or your taditional assasin that doest do much other than kill people who are alone or not paying attention. I was just letting people they are good in other situations as i have found the more i WvW.
As for compared to my ranger, he is a good sniper and can take 1 target down fast, barrage is very effective but my thiefs shortbow, being able to do a cluster bomb every 3 seconds with some insane crits seems to hurt the attacking force alot more, it may not get finishing off kills but that combined with them being poisoned for 30seconds, seems to make groups of people back off out of action and wait for their heal.
I was not saying a thief is better than a ranger, i was just listing some ways that a thief is effective where people woulnt expect your assasin type class to be effective. in no way do i see how this could be looked at as trolling………. not everyone has mastered the thief class, just giving people ideas and thing they can try while playing a thief.
if you luv your shortbow ranger that much that cools but you dont have to get all worked up because someone says another class is also effective at things similar
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thiefs are defently the most fun
So when i made my thief i figured id be really good 1v1 and catching enemies off guard. I figured i would really only be meant for roaming around and picking people off and be kinda useless in stand off and siege / defense.
Well I’m more than happy with my ability to kill in the situation i mentioned above.
I"m D/D and short bow, mostly damage spec with stealth traites.
Now for those other situations, I actually feel more effective than my ranger in keep defense, cluster bombs and poison clouds can really hinder an attack at the front door. even when they are inside i can attack with bow from above and if an enemy does come up after me i tear them apart in melee.
Now in standoffs i can be effctive with bow but i luv waiting for an enemy to get too close then i use imobolize venon, Shadowstep steal, (mug) (stealth) backstab, dancing dagger, at this point the target is down or will be from others attacking from my side so i retreat back,(many tools get back safely) and let my side finish him off.
Another amazing tool that alot of thiefs dont utolize is short bow shadow shot. very good for traveling as well as getting to safety when enemys have you crippled or are just on top you.
this is actually a really good system, it rewards you for fighting for your server and there you are stronger to make your server stronger.
If you want a fair fight go do SPVP.
A reward system like this is no different than advantages that are ALREADY there like player levels and gear this just gives you something thing to improve on for years and keep you going.
@mcl
dont get me wrong i really like GW2 and its WvW, i just see the issue that alot of people cant handle and thats that people feel like they hit a wall and there character is done and cant improve. i just refer to DAOC’s system because its the only one ive seen that worked and kept people playing that SAME charcter instead of 10 alts
why not slight power over another player? its no different than a level 70 vs a level 80 or a level 80 with exotic gear vs a level 80 with rare gear. Getting to level 80 and the best gear doesnt take along long time in this game. the reward system would add another layer on top but would take years to achieve very high in it.
We SPVP for fair, equal fights. why cant WvW have a reward for those devoted and fighting for their server every day and goal to get your character better. it really isnt any different than basic levels or gear advantages that are already there it just adding a reason to keep playing your character for a very long time to improve
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same could be said about level 1 threw 80……. think of this system as 80 to 90 but where most people never play enough to even get to (85)
This has been brought up alot and i see alot of people who didnt play DAOC just say well the WvW is the reward. And yes it is and i can live with it.
But the system people are asking for is what kept people playing the same character in DAOC for 10 years. people want this system because it always feel like your working towards making your character better and you never hit a wall where your done.
you kill so many enemy players you get a point, have to kill alot more to get your next and so on and so on where it takes alot more kills each time to get a point. it gets where it takes weeks or even months to get points, but you still feel like all the time played was working towards making your character better. 99.999% people never even came close to point cap. that was the beauty of it.
now yes the DAOC system made people become way too strong after years so it would really need to be toned down in GW2. but even if i spent a month playing in WvW to get just 1 point and by 10 more power id be happy and feel like i was alway making my character better. i think this is the endgame alot of people want
WvW is the endgame to most. This is what brought most DOAC people here. you can look at it as leveling up and building your character for a purpose, to go and fight for your server in WvW
Ive never understood how people can think of raiding as an endgame. to me raiding for gear would still be still building your character. but your just making this powerful character to have nothing to do or purpose.
ive been roaming pve camps in WvW alot more lately and ill find people farming, some are bots, some arent.
If this is what you want you might as well ply Warhammer. The biggest problem there was why try to take anything back? it will just reset the next day.
If the matches are only a day long there will be no sense of accomplishment. People like what they did to matter. if you spent all day fighting for an orb and get it, you want to have it for weeks.
Also this gives the losing sides a chance to actually come back on a different day, things can drastically change on the weekend, People work, 1 day a pvp guild might not be together but another day they might be playing together and having a huge effect on that map.
look at Darkage of Camelot, in the 3way battle there nothing ever resets, but many times a week a different realm is winning on the battle map.
once free server transfers are gone, things will work alot better without the people always going to the winning side
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I understand what he is wanting. I have a feeling he played eigther a White Lion or a Squig Herder in Warhammer and both classes let you go petless and gain a 25% damage boost.
I dont see them doing that in GW2 and the pet makes the ranger seperate from the rest the range classes like engineer.
I too didnt want a pet as first but once i started realzing what they could do they work into my stagety. for open field i use a Snow Leapord, the command is a 5second chill (66%snare) and the pet also does alot bleed damage and even makes teh target vulnerable for me.
For standoffs i like a spider, he does ranged attacks with me, he does ranged aoe poison and also imobolizes with web shots.
But yah in alot cases i wish i could trade the pet in for more sniper damage.
So for the last month ive just been having fun playing a few different classe so ive never asked the ovious questions that probably came out right at launch.
(1) shortbow, ive seen a few videos where they just target the enemy and it fires at them without having to take the time to ground target. How do you do that?
(2) when i use LDB im stuck for a second facing my screen and the target, this also causes me to miss some attacks if i try to rotate the camera. is there a setting where the camera always follows behind me?
Thanks for the help
i think you guys are missing the bigger picture here.
you get much better loot drops in wvw. take away the dieing repair cost and every PVE’er and there mom will come there to farm. even bots will show up and expect a much longer que to get into WvW. the repair cost is the risk and what keeps pve farmers away.
People have different play styles so if your style is melee or you just really like throwing axes thats cool. But alot of people argue between long bow and short bow. If using a bow is your playstyle I found that using both is the most effective.
Standoffs and sieges longbow has its ovious stregnths. Long range shots will catch alot of people offguard and not paying attention and drop them. barrage is one of the most powerful abilities in WvW at killing and stopping an enemy charge.
Now for roaming around and close range fights i found this works extremely well. Run with longbow in your hands, you have knockback rdy incase a thief pops on you just get jumped on out of nowhere. the main focus tho is you can open with vulnerablilty shot, then swap to shortbow, (weapon swap buffs are up)cripple shot and unload damage.
during skirmishes when you abilities are all down and the enemy is still on you can alway swap to longbow, pushback and aim a quick barrage between you and then use rapidfire. by this time you can swap back to shortbow and abities will be back.
Im full damage spec and gear but i use frost trap and spike trap and they work very well at keeping me alive in open field. along with the elite vine skill.
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Im very happy with longbow, very hard hitting long range crits and i can pick alot of people off in standoffs, barrage is one the deadlyiest abilities in WvW and good at stopping a enemy push.
when the target comes after me , pushback is nice then i switch to shortbow.
Also in skirmish situations i run with longbow out so i can knockback if needed (thief) but when i start the fight i open with vulnerability shot then switch to shortbow for snare and close range damage
i tried the axe/torch combo and it wasnt as efefctive as it sounds, the bonfire was nice in some situations, i also tried sword /dagger and actualyy engaging in melee, was kinda a fun change, but i went back to shortbow and longbow combo and found that it really is unmatched, you have abilities for every situation, standoff and skirmish. switching between the 2 during fights is very effective. you also get teh weapon swap buffs if your traited.
in most skirmishes i weild longbow incase i need to open with knockback, if not i start the fight with vulnerability shot then switch to shortbow. in standoffs longbow is death from a distance
For the love of god NOOO. You might as well go play in WoW or Rift Bgs then where everything you do doesnt matter because it just resets right away. Look at what that did to Warhammer,…why try to take anything back? it will just reset in hours….
Having a long duration match gives you the sense of accomplishment and what you did matters. It also gives the losing side time to make a comback. certainpwerful wvw guilds maynot being playing one day becase fo work, but another day they can get on and turn the match.
Look at DAOC the matches dont reset there and never have yet the war map and whos winning changes constantly
the only problem is server transfers, once these are turned off it shouldnt be an issue
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well right now with alot of unbalanced matches 1 side with 3x number just runs over everyone else and takes everything. once the matches are balanced and there are teh same numbers i think it will be alot harder to take a orb because the defenders port in is right there.
also if an enemy does take an orb it should be stored somewhere where its harder to hold onto,
i would like to see the home orbs in a more protected keep tho, like daoc oldfrontiers which had 3 gates you had to go threw.
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the orbs do the same things relics did in daoc. and the system will be fine once the server matches are balanced (which is starting to happen) i did like teh darkness falls idea. maybe who ever owns the most towers has access to something similiar in gw2
Most matches are determined in 24 hrs so a week is too long.
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no., things change everyday, some days people work some days they dont, thing change drastically on the weekends. Certain pvp guilds might have certain days where they cant play together.
oviously you didnt play daoc, the 3 way matches there are perminate for a server with all 3 sides within and things would change constantly every week.
once the servers settle down from transfers and more pvp guilds are established with more level 80s you start to the 2 losing sides attacking the winning side more and changing teh scores
If the match is too short you get no sense of accomplishment, or stuff you did all day doesnt matter. this also killed Warhammer why try when everything just resets……
i think 2 weeks is the minimum.
would also like to see more upgrade abilities added, but much longer to obtain, like maybe a 4th upgrade that took 24 hours
Ever since joining a WvW focus guild and taking a tower every night and trying to protect it, WvW has become alot more fun for me as im starting to feel like i have a purpose.
My concern tho is the upgrading cost uses money, alot of people are put off by this because they oviously need $ for gear, repairs, crafting and so on. I have 2 suggestions
1 change upgrades to use your guild points that are used on guild upgrades and stuff.
2 create a pvp karma that is used for keep /tower upgrades and siege.
i think the number 2 system would work better in WvW and have a better sense of reward by allowing you to have stronger keeps and towers only from doing WvW more and abtaining more pvp karma
the only thing i wish they would change is the upgrades on keeps/towers cost money. Alot people dont want to use their $ because they needed it for gear, crafting and other stuff. a pvp karma system for guilds would work alot better imo
So I was worried that the WvW wouldnt give me that amazing endgame that Darkage of Camelot had. I had been in WvW many times, following the zerg and roaming on my own. I never felt like anything i did mattered. But i was also in a guild where everyone kinda did their own thing.
Well i joined a WvW guild and after playing the last few nights the whole feeling and fun factor completely changed.
We went to the enemies borderlands, as usually there was massive fights everywhere. About 15 of us went after one of the towers close to the enemies port in. We took it and held it all night (our sides zerg saved us a few times.)
I guess it was once YOUR guild claimes a tower and you see your emblems hanging all around it, it kinda felt like this was ours, almost like it was our home (for the night) trying to upgrade it and repair it, trying to get supply caravans to it and just roaming around it and protecting it gave me that feeling of accomplishment and purpose and i had ALOT of fun all night. no game has done that for me since DAOC 8 years ago.
Anyways id really suggest that everyone finds a good WvW guild because that can change the feeling and fun factor of the WvW endgame alot and make you feel like your building a character for a purpose… to go and fight for your server and your guild
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i find that WvW is a good goal, it basically building your character so you can go and fight for your server. Once i got in a good WvW guild i had alot more fun. Every night they would take a tower close to the enemies port in. Owning the tower and seeing your guild emblem gives the sense that its yours so you feel like you HAVE to defend it. Trying to upgrade it, getting supply caravans and defending from constant attacks was unending fun and felt like you had a huge PURPOSE there
it wont show the weapon swap unless there is a 2nd weapon equiped
lol someone died to a ranger so that means SOMETING is making the ranger OPd
Like the last person said Both work very well together.
Alot of people will say short bow is better but that is only true in a skirmish or up close fight.
For stand offs and keep defense longbow with traited range is unmatched imo. ’IF" you can catch someone with those long range shots they they will drop and alot of people dont pay attention when they are in a zerg. Barrage is very good at stopping a group push and getting kills.
Now for roaming and skirmish fights, this is what i do: I run with longbow in my hands, the pushback attack is nice incase you get jumped. but the main reason is i open with the debuff shot, then swap to shortbow, and cripple shot. (i also have swiftness and fury because of the swap)
IF the target runs stick with shortbow and he will mostlikely die.
If the target comes after me i use the shortbow attacks accordingly along with traps.
In a rare case they are still on me and all abilities are down, swap to longbow pushback, rollback, barrage, rapidfire. if needed shortbow swap and abilities would be ready again.
between the 2 bow you pretty much always have an abiliy to use for the situation
Rangers are one of the best classes in standoffs and keep defense, they are also very good at roaming if your set up for it. but i guess this only applies to WvW
We all know that Warhorn is hard to match for the speed in WvW.
Im a damage spec longbow ranger, mainly for standoffs and keep defense. While I dont really want to be caught in open field i wanted to try some melee to see if i could finish people off after i opened with longbow.
I could just switch to a shortbow but i wanted to actually try melee. Sword and Dagger was actually alot better than i thought and put out decent damage and made me very evasive. the dagger attack made my target always poisoned and evaded attacks and their heal abilities were much less effective. the throw cripple was very nice as 6sec cripple, (7.8sec traited) would allow me to get distance and use bow again.
another trick i found was fighting in frosttrap (10sec traited chill) + hornet leap for frost armor really shut done the abilitys of melee attackers.
while i didnt win every fight, i actually had alot of fun with the bow + melee play style.
In most fight i was able to get targets to 50% life with bow and finish them off in melee when they got to me. Still had problems with thiefs but i did very well against everyone else i faced and i know i suprised some warriors.
was using spider for ranged fighting and lynx once i went into melee