Guild Wars 2

It has always works for me. Perhaps they are timing it poorly.

I’ll note this as well. The lack of significant Anet support with regards to tournament promotion is rather disheartening. Some of the tournaments I’ve run haven’t even gotten more than a single tweet a few minute before go-time.

@Korusf: You are wrong, illusionists celerity does stack with the weapon cooldown trait for a maximum of 40% cooldown reduction.

@Zelotes: I have made a pve phantasm build designed to provide both strong support (healing/utility) to a team as well as strong damage. You can find the guide here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-PvE-Supporting-Phantasm-Build/first

The build uses all available weapons with the exception of the torch and scepter. You can choose to stick primarily with sword/x, but always remember that to be fully versatile you need to have a full range of weapons available to use. The traits are 10/10/030/20, but since the patch I’ve been experimenting with 10/10/0/25/25 to take illusionists celerity, but you can modify it so that it feels right for you.

I’ve made threads in the thief and elementalist forums. They are all experiencing the same odd sluggishness in skills. This is not Mesmer specific, it is most definitely a full game problem.

Unlikely to have anything to do with those bugs, this is definitely a cross class issue.

@wads: You mean launch/blowout, not knockdown. Knockdowns can be immediately broken, but with a launch/blowout you have to wait until you stop bouncing to break it.

Yeah, after using it some more, I really do like the new block. It does a lot of damage, actually allows us to do somewhat of a condition burst.

Now if the rest of the scepter didn’t suck donkeyballs, I’d be happy.

I made this post over in the thief forum as well.

I main a Mesmer, and since the patch, a lot of Mesmer skills seem to be oddly sluggish. Things just aren’t activating and responding as quickly as they used to. Apparently thieves have been noticing this too.

Have you guys seem this at all?

I play a Mesmer, and since this latest patch, I and others have noticed that a lot of our skills have seemed oddly sluggish. Response times just seem longer than usual, some skils aren’t activating at the speed they used to.

Are you guys seeing anything like this?

@Vanthian: The stereotypical tank retal Mesmer is my build. It is no longer viable. The trait that applies the retaliation to the phantasms no longer works. Anet nerfed it into non-existence, and broke it while they nerfed it. Retaliation is no longer a thing on phantasms.

Edit: phase retreat actually only moves you about 600 units. The 1200 range is the range at which it will actually produce a clone.

That being said, no good Mesmer will lose to a warrior. You just don’t hav the necessary utility to overcome the tricks of a Mesmer.

And THAT being said, you can get better. Learn to identify the real Mesmer quickly. Learn to distinguish between clones and phantasms, and what that means. Learn the tricks a Mesmer uses to try to overcome them. If you want help learning that, I encourage you to make a post on the Mesmer forum asking for advice.

I have noticed this as well, with multiple skills. Everything just seems to be a little bit not quite right.

@Embolism: check the wiki page for phantasmal haste for the proper numbers.

ViciousVyne.2935:

The changes to Blurred Frenzy are a big joke.
When I’m in PvP, knockbacks and fear still hit me, so it’s even worse than your typical dodge. These changes go far beyond making us take retaliation damage. I’d like to know whether all of this was wanted, or they messed it up. If they messed it up I’m sure we can wait 3 months for a fix.

I’d love to know what knockbacks and fear hit through blurred frenzy

Embolism.8106:

Well, to be fair with the trait iMage’s CD is only 20% longer, attacks about 25% slower, and I don’t think it has less HP.

But yes using iMage to remove conditions doesn’t work.

Just checked my numbers
iMage is on a 50% longer cooldown (1.5x)
The iMage attacks 2x slower, both with and without pHaste
The disenchanter does have more hp than normal phantasms, though not nearly as much as the defender.

The torches works ok in a power build. That being said, while the prestige can so a bit of damage along with the iMage, that’s not why you take it. The damage the torch does is minimal. You take it for the utility of the prestige.

Curunen.8729:

I’m going to stick my neck out and say it – I think iMage is better than iDisenchanter (apart from the cooldown of course)!

:p

Yeah, the iMage is pretty similar. They both remove conditions.

…if you trait 20 points and a major trait
…with a 2x longer cooldown
…removing half as many conditions
…not removing boons
…attacking 3x slower
…with less hp

The immortal build is significantly different after this patch, yes. The retaliation was my offense, and now that is gone. The survivability of the build has not been impacted though.

@decease: It is very evident to me that you have done very little pvp on a mesmer, or at least very little in any build that utilizes phantasms.

1. With smart play, you can control where your phantasms spawn and how they move.
2. With smart play, you can force people to cleave your phantasms if they want to attack you, providing retaliation
3. Phantasmal defender takes damage from you and all your phantasms. If they hit any of those targets, they receive retaliation from the defender
4. Not sure what the point of this clause is.
5. What about it?
6. PvP is all about positioning. If you ignore it, you will lose.

decease.3215:

Pyroatheist.9031:

decease.3215:

5 sec of buff or nothing at all.. they are about the same.. both worthlesss.. sigh.. i hope anet do plan to tweak this back to what it were..

p.s. this is a completely a pve nerf.. i wonder why.. as if mesmer aren’t weak enough in pve..

This is mainly a PvP nerf actually. My problem with it is that it makes the trait worthless. They should have removed the trait and replaced it with something else. The current situation is just 5 wasted trait points.

not even a bit.. in pvp no one attack phantasm. they always aim for mesmer. if they do attack phantasm it is usually mindless aoe. like in wvwvw.. where phatasm will die within first 5 second.

plus in spvp clone and phantasmal have much less health now.. they will likely get one or two shot anywayz.

while in pve phantasm have more health where this feat become useful..

You fail to understand the proper usage of the trait. You force people to attack the phantasms with positioning or use the phantasmal defender to force them to hit it no matter what. Proper positioning means any aoes or cleaves will hit the phantasms as well.

Castervania.3560:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Castervania.3560:

Same thing different ways of expression. Did you notice how op are other classes compared to us now?

Strangely enough, I didn’t. I still seem to be facerolling everyone I come across. I wonder why…

Please tell me what server you are on and what do you play wvw, spvp or tpvp? i would like to get to know you more personal.

I am on dragonbrand, and I play wvw and occasionally tpvp.

decease.3215:

5 sec of buff or nothing at all.. they are about the same.. both worthlesss.. sigh.. i hope anet do plan to tweak this back to what it were..

p.s. this is a completely a pve nerf.. i wonder why.. as if mesmer aren’t weak enough in pve..

This is mainly a PvP nerf actually. My problem with it is that it makes the trait worthless. They should have removed the trait and replaced it with something else. The current situation is just 5 wasted trait points.

Castervania.3560:

Same thing different ways of expression. Did you notice how op are other classes compared to us now?

Strangely enough, I didn’t. I still seem to be facerolling everyone I come across. I wonder why…

Castervania.3560:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Castervania.3560:

Pyroatheist.9031:

I think everyone else has covered this pretty extensively, but FWIW:

Shatter mesmers were the least touched of all the builds. Not only do you retain IC, you also generally will trait sword, reducing the cd increase to only 1.6 seconds as opposed to 2 seconds. The fact that you seem to be unable to get high scores in sPvP hotjoin is a reflection only of your lack of skill, not the fact that shatter builds got nerfed.

The picture was not about the score, its about the amount of players that now bandwagon to necros and warriors. and i’m still killing in spvp. I just think its unfair that sword got such a big nerf, okey remove distortion but why make it such a long cd?

Why on earth do you care about the amount of players that bandwagon to necros and warriors? That makes 0 sense.

What i intended to say is that they aimed for build diversity instead they put 2 to 3 classes on the game. All other classes are no longer a good option, in order to do anything u need to feel like u have to invest so much.

Not over reacting, just saying that the nerf on sword was a little too much.

I agree, the cooldown nerf on blurred frenzy was too much at the time. They should have changed it to evade and waited for the next balance patch to nerf the cooldown if it was still felt necessary.

I also agree that they massively failed if they were trying to provide build diversity, and I’ve been over this many times.

That being said, the classes showing up in hotjoin are not representative of anything other than the current flavor of the month. Trying to use that as an example of anything other than what the current flavor of the month is, is absolutely illegitimate.

BlackDevil.9268:

Pyroatheist.9031:

BlackDevil.9268:

WOHO! Another bug!

Shattered conditions, #XI of the inspiration trait line, is bugged/doesn’t work in combination with Illusionary persona, #XI of the illusions trait line.
Having illusionary persona, makes it able to cast shatter skills while not having any clones up, which should remove conditions from yourself and your allies with the trait ‘’shattered conditions’’, while it only removes 1 condition from yourself around 25% of the time.

This may be intended. IP also does not work with shattered strength.

Shattered strength:
Shattering illusions grants you 1 stack of might per illusion (10 seconds).

Shattered Conditions:
Using a shatter skill removes a condition from you and allies around you.

See the difference?

You should know better than to trust that the skill descriptions have any semblance of relevance when it comes to what the skills actually do :-/

Helios.3598:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Helios.3598:

“Bountiful Interruption: Gain might for 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe, then gain another boon randomly.”

5 seconds, not 5 stacks…

You are wrong, it works as the OP stated.

Really??! Here is my reference . If I’m wrong then I apologize. The spell description wording is very poor.

If it actually adds 5 stack per intterupt then that’s incredible. I’m definitely traiting it for WvW. I’m thinking of going perhaps with a GS/Staff, 20(II,X)/20(II,X)/30(IV,VIII,X or XI)/0/0, hybrid build. I’ll prolly stick with Runes of the Centaur and perhaps some boon duration food.

The wiki is poorly labeled, it gives 5 stacks of might on interrupt + another random boon. That being said, it’s still a very poor trait due to the very nature of interrupts. The only possible use it has is randomly firing interrupts into a zerg in wvw.

BlackDevil.9268:

WOHO! Another bug!

Shattered conditions, #XI of the inspiration trait line, is bugged/doesn’t work in combination with Illusionary persona, #XI of the illusions trait line.
Having illusionary persona, makes it able to cast shatter skills while not having any clones up, which should remove conditions from yourself and your allies with the trait ‘’shattered conditions’’, while it only removes 1 condition from yourself around 25% of the time.

This may be intended. IP also does not work with shattered strength.

Castervania.3560:

I am still killing, at a lower rate but still there. The only diference is that sword is not worthy on a group situation anymore.

This patch did not affect the ability of a shatter mesmer to kill things. If you are killing at a lower rate, it is from your end, not the build.

Castervania.3560:

Pyroatheist.9031:

I think everyone else has covered this pretty extensively, but FWIW:

Shatter mesmers were the least touched of all the builds. Not only do you retain IC, you also generally will trait sword, reducing the cd increase to only 1.6 seconds as opposed to 2 seconds. The fact that you seem to be unable to get high scores in sPvP hotjoin is a reflection only of your lack of skill, not the fact that shatter builds got nerfed.

The picture was not about the score, its about the amount of players that now bandwagon to necros and warriors. and i’m still killing in spvp. I just think its unfair that sword got such a big nerf, okey remove distortion but why make it such a long cd?

Why on earth do you care about the amount of players that bandwagon to necros and warriors? That makes 0 sense.

I think everyone else has covered this pretty extensively, but FWIW:

Shatter mesmers were the least touched of all the builds. Not only do you retain IC, you also generally will trait sword, reducing the cd increase to only 1.6 seconds as opposed to 2 seconds. The fact that you seem to be unable to get high scores in sPvP hotjoin is a reflection only of your lack of skill, not the fact that shatter builds got nerfed.

Helios.3598:

“Bountiful Interruption: Gain might for 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe, then gain another boon randomly.”

5 seconds, not 5 stacks…

You are wrong, it works as the OP stated.

The reason I’m worried about the future of the mesmer is that the dev team has conclusively demonstrated that they have no idea how to appropriately approach balance.

While they might eventually reach balance with all the finesse of a blind quadriplegic, the interim stages could be extremely painful. I’d just as soon not spend the next 8 months of this class trying to make it work because the devs nerfed us down to the level of rangers, necros, and warriors.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Phantasms specs got absurd buffs and are one of the strongest specs in the entire game.

Anyone who says otherwise is seriously just talking out their kitten and crying about an incredibly minor change in comparison to the buffs that they just got.

Yes, phantasm builds still work roughly the same as they did before. They are still one of (the?) strongest 1v1 spec in the entire game.

Phantasm builds are still near worthless in team fights. Additionally, the nerf hit all other non-shatter builds. Interrupt builds are still completely worthless. The vengeful images nerf means that now putting points into inspiration gains you 5 wasted trait points and completely neutered most mesmer tank builds. The torment is on a useless weapon, and iMage still is completely useless.

Shatter builds are still nearly untouched.

Terok.7315:

AndrewSX.3794:

New target aquired.

Spvp QQers crossfire starting in 3…2…1…

Gl with that Necs.

/Mes

It’s frustrating but part of me is enjoying it. We’re taken seriously now. As long as anet doesn’t give in to the shenanigans I’ll be happy to accept (the undeserved and hilarious) title of OP. I just hope they still haven’t remembered that we have zero mobility and severely limited access to DS as a condition necro.

Anet has a pretty strong track record of giving in to the shenanigans, so your hope might be somewhat misplaced.

Crossplay.2067:

I’m on the fence about this. One one hand, I prefer the shatter effect as it is far more artistic and even elegant. It truly fits the mesmer MO. However, the traited explosions have a visceral feel. When they go boom and something next to them dies, it just feels more satisfying.

Yeah, I have to agree with that. I really do love the butterflies, but the over-write explosions are just really nice and solid.

Just as an fyi, bountiful interruption now occupies the master slot, and chaotic interruption now occupies the grandmaster slot.

There is no basic problem with the condition itself, or the mode of application. The problem is that it’s on the scepter. You have the worthless autoattack, and you have confusing images, which is slow, clunky, and applies a worthless condition. As much as the block is now fantastic for condition specs, the scepter is still so bad that it’s painful to use.

Carighan.6758:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Again, there’s nothing wrong with the damage torment provides. The issue is that from the mechanics, it appears to be designed to provide a meaningful choice between not moving or taking higher damage. However, the damage increase is not significant enough for anyone to even consider not moving to decrease the damage taken.

I don’t understand it as such.
It’s not meant to be like Confusion or Retaliation where the design goal was to “not” attack.

I understand it as a counterbalance to how in general, standing still incurs you more damage than running around like mad. This is because you stand in more AEs and fields, incurring more conditions and damage.

Torment sort-of does a mini-counterbalance here. Here’s one situation which deals more damage when moving. It’s still better to move in 99% of cases, but the damage difference is slightly reduced when Torment comes into play.

That’s definitely possible. It all depends on what the devs intended it as, and I can’t answer that question.

osif.8673:

You obviously can’t see the other side of the argument with this one. I don’t know if it’s anger in the change, if you’re just stubborn, or just want mesmers to be above the rest. I’ll just leave it at us disagreeing, as we have both expressed our opinions and the argument is exhausted.

Here’s the thing. Moving IC simply is a broad spectrum nerf to any build that can’t run 25 points into illusions. That is not how balance is done. Additionally, the existence of IC makes that sort of thing impossible to balance.

Instead, IC should have been absorbed into the base cooldowns and the trait removed. Once that is accomplished, then another pass can be done on each individual cooldown affected by the skill in order to properly balance them.

osif.8673:

• These were steps moving in the right direction for balance, even though things can always be done better.
• Making IC globally inherited by the abilities it effects and replacing the trait with something new would be a step in the wrong direction for balance.

Protip: A space is needed between the * or the # in order to make bulleted lists or numbered lists.

Those are the two points that I strongly disagree with. As I explained, due to the position and power of the trait, it was not so much a trait choice as it was a permanent, basic boost to mesmer builds. Because of that situation, the move is a de facto nerf to all non-shatter builds, not a step towards balance.

@osif: If that trait only affected a few utilities, then you might be correct. The fact of the matter is, however, it affects a massive number of skills across all builds. Leap, phase retreat, mirror blade, all phantasms, all of these are utility/damaging/w.e skills that have no inherent ties to shatter builds. I see the point you are trying to make, but the premise you use is unfortunately factually inaccurate.

The doom and gloom preaching isn’t about phantasm builds, it’s about everything else. This is the most ironic part of the whole thing. The nerf seemed to be targeted at phantasm builds, and yet phantasm builds are the least affected by the nerf, because it nerfed the WRONG part of the builds.

osif.8673:

Pyroatheist.9031:

It’s not the end of the world, but the analysis is spot on. The movement of IC is a de facto nerf to any non-shatter build. This is caused by the fact that it was a baseline requirement for almost any mesmer build to be properly effective.

The trait is too strong to be an adept minor. It’s also too strong to be a grandmaster minor. It shouldn’t exist. When a trait like that becomes so necessary that every build takes it, it is now a baseline part of the class and not actually a build option. Being a baseline part of the class and not actually a build option, moving it simply is a nerf to that entire class. A proper solution would be to remove the trait entirely, change the cooldowns to absorb that baseline effect, and put something else that is balanced in its place.

I respectfully disagree. Shatter builds, which are clearly one of the focuses of the trait line, benefit most from IC. Faster clone output = higher rate of shatters. It is clearly in a good place now such that the majority of people picking it up are most likely shatter builds – which I think was probably ANet’s intention. Adding an innate IC across the board and replacing the minor trait with something new (I think that’s what you meant by “change the cooldowns to absorb that baseline effect?”) would be ridiculously over the top strong. The short CDs we had were verging on OP for only 5 trait points, how would shortening the CDs on all illusion spawning abilities and adding a new minor trait be fair?

Shatter builds most certainly don’t benefit the most from IC. They benefit just about the same as any other build mesmers have. Pure clone generation is only part of what IC does. It also affects phantasm cooldowns, and then all of the skills that generate clones have strong utility. IC is anything but a shatter build trait, it is a mesmer trait.

The reason behind removing IC and adding it innately into CDs across the board is because that is how it was. At the 5 point minor position it is, for all intents and purposes, an innate cooldown bonus. All mesmer builds took it because without it most builds are significantly slower and clunkier. Since it was an innate bonus, removing that bonus is a straight nerf to all non-shatter builds. Being an innate bonus, to actually promote build diversity the trait should have been made truly innate, the trait removed, and something else put there.

If, then, after the cooldown bonus had been absorbed into the skills, it was determined that this was overpowered or needed adjustments in some way, then the skills or builds that specifically needed those adjustments could get them. That way only the problems could be addressed without doing a broad spectrum nerf.

If, on the other hand, you feel that all non-shatter builds needed a 25% cooldown increase on roughly half of their toolkit, then that is an entirely different argument, and not one the devs or anyone else seems inclined to make, and wisely.

osif.8673:

thatmaskedman.4508:

Get off that horse dude, seriously. There’s more people around these forums with design or development experience than just you.

Don’t you think this is a little ironic as ANet employees most likely have much more design and dev experience than you, (and most people on the forums) yet you question and tell them they are wrong? Carighan is right in the quote you have there… I think it’s you who might have to step off the horse and realize that mesmers are far from dead and are still extremely strong. IC being moved to GM is hardly the end of the world.

It’s not the end of the world, but the analysis is spot on. The movement of IC is a de facto nerf to any non-shatter build. This is caused by the fact that it was a baseline requirement for almost any mesmer build to be properly effective.

The trait is too strong to be an adept minor. It’s also too strong to be a grandmaster minor. It shouldn’t exist. When a trait like that becomes so necessary that every build takes it, it is now a baseline part of the class and not actually a build option. Being a baseline part of the class and not actually a build option, moving it simply is a nerf to that entire class. A proper solution would be to remove the trait entirely, change the cooldowns to absorb that baseline effect, and put something else that is balanced in its place.

juno.1840:

Pyroatheist.9031:

My question is why bother with power at all? The only capacity for power damage you have is in the iWarlock, and that’s not enough to sacrifice condition damage in a primarily condition based build for.

All direct damage attacks still benefit from power. Even the staff auto-attack can hit hard at close range with crits and good power.

This is why I called the build “Hybrid” — all your DPS eggs are not in one basket. All it takes is a player with an extreme anti-condition build to make your life hard. This includes condition-removal builds as well as players running Melandru’s runes with Lemongrass soup.

All damage attacks do benefit to some extent from power, that is true. Some are considerably more benefited though. Of the skills you have in your build, only 1 will benefit in any noticeable way. Staff autoattacks even in a full power setup barely tickle glass cannon builds.

My question is why bother with power at all? The only capacity for power damage you have is in the iWarlock, and that’s not enough to sacrifice condition damage in a primarily condition based build for.

Qosin.2078:

Then it sounds like I was doing stuff horribly wrong in trying to use skills to be an evasion tank rather than just getting out of the way.

I’m going to give it a shot with GS/Staff combo, because right now I just want these enemies to stay the hell away from me.

Thanks for the tips.

A very strong combo for fighting multiple enemies is gs+ sword/focus. The focus temporal curtain pull allows you to group enemies tightly. Try placing it on a wall or in a corner, and pulling all the enemies into one compact group. You can then drop a warden on them, do leap+swap+blurred frenzy into them, and then if any are still alive, back up and use the phantasmal zerker on the remainder. It’s a very efficient method of cleaning up a big group.

Krispera.5087:

They need to bring back the casting bar. Also, I feel it’s a learn to play mechanic. We will probably get better at interrupting the more we pratice.

I was doing the Obsidian Sanctum yesterday. My interrupt build is with Counter Blade, Power Lock, Signet of Domination (Traited mantras and signets) and instant killed many people before they know what happened (Sigil of Fire damage + Halting 1-3k damage). Quickness on interrupt is awesome.

I can see people being daze/stun locked in PvP.

Like many of you said already, it’s a unreliable playstyle and it gets me angry sometimes.

This is exactly the problem though. Daze/stun locking doesn’t proc interrupts. Yes, it’s a stunlock, but you don’t get interrupts from that.

@Sinaya: You are being purposefully misleading with your numbers. Changing 20 dueling traits to domination will provide a 20% boost in condition duration. That is completely separate from the runeset and food. The 20% boost is nowhere near being worth losing nearly 50% of your bleeding output and more or less unlimited clones.

EnRohbi.2187:

decease.3215:

you ever kill anything with interrupt? in wvw can you really tell how many people are around you 90% of the time? serious… in my experience wvw is just spam all i got while running around trying to survive..

That’s the playstyle you take advantage of as an interrupt mesmer in WvW.
Everyone you fight in a large battle is just spamming skills, all you really have to do is unload a few dazes and you’re going to proc plenty of interrupts.

Also, one of my mesmer friends has been trying an interrupt build since the patch.
He’s barely above “useless” in roaming, but it’s quite deadly when paired with other control builds and some DPS.

Problem is that most ‘spammed’ skills are not interruptable. Autoattacks can’t get interrupted, any skill with a cast time of under .75 seconds won’t get interrupted, and obviously in wvw anyone with stability will not get interrupted. It’s a total crapshoot in wvw, sometimes you’ll get lucky and get a ton of interrupts, and sometimes you’ll get nothing. It’s just an extremely unreliable playstyle.

Again, there’s nothing wrong with the damage torment provides. The issue is that from the mechanics, it appears to be designed to provide a meaningful choice between not moving or taking higher damage. However, the damage increase is not significant enough for anyone to even consider not moving to decrease the damage taken.