Guild Wars 2

Nerelith.7360:

“Why?”

“Why” has been explained. Just because the reasons do not cater to your argument or whims does not make the any less valid.

Also, “Cool” is a reason. Wardrobe is cool. Trait redesign is (allegedly) cool. Ascended armor is cool (again, allegedly). Siege golems serve no other purpose but to be cool.

But, honestly, human motivations are complex as much as they are simple. “Want” is the beginning of change. Just because change is scary and might nerf someone’s pet class is no reason to blindly nonono at every suggestion. Most of the above is fear or “do not want” for the sake of it, because a feature might be implemented poorly and become annoying.

Also, repeating an vague, interchangeable, and previously-countered argument does not give it more weight. Except in America? But I digress.

Guardians already provide a LOT of boons, they do not want them being the first to arrive at a PvE encounter.

Oh no, not boons! How helpful and on such long cooldowns. Tragic.
To say “It’s game design” is such a circular argument Descarte would be proud of it.
Given the Trait redesign, let’s not say that ANet fully thinks everything through. A bit slanderous, I realize, but that one’s really unpopular ’round here. 40 pages and counting, I think.

But yes, I do disagree with some of their decisions. What do I do about it? I discuss. A speed-normalizing thread would be great, honestly. I want to see what other people think about it.

You want the game developers to reverse themselves on speed-boost as they decided to implement it.

I also want them to reverse a Trait design they released after the other one worked just fine. Why did it change? Because the original Guild Wars set thought Elite skill hunting was cool. (Not to lay blame on our veteran bretheren. A smoother implementation of it would have been pretty cool.)

And to be blatantly clear, I do not care one whit about mounts getting into the game. Dusty’s right. It’s primarily unnecessary. There would be lots of work to do if they decide to move on it. A slapdash estimate of potential profit suggests that it’s a big development risk, financially. Not pro-mount. Not anti-mount.

I’m an Independent voter.

But crying against it and claiming the status quo is all the reason necessary to block something that might be fun for someone else and profit for the company is bad logic. And that just silks my trading post.

We are perfectly happy playing the game Anet is providing when it comes to speed-boost.

I won’t say “perfect”, but I am quite content with GW2. As it is.
…Except for traits. And Defiance. And condition caps. I’ve got other good fights to rally that don’t involve

maha.7902:

You do realise mesmers strip boon on autoattack? That would be completely busted if you could strip it.

Oh, trust me, the thought occurred to me. Sword-Mesmer would probably be broken with a system like that in place.

Nerelith.7360:

biggs.4702:

I don’t feel that I should be made to sacrifice combat effectiveness just so I can run faster.

That is the balance that the game developers have decided we should consider. They have made the game as it is. They have decided that speed boost is one of the elements around which the differing professions need to be balanced.

I can understand you want perma-speed boost without giving up combat effectiveness.

The developers have always expected us, to compromise one need against another.

This is One such case.

If you do not want this to be the case, you are asking that gw2 be changed to another game that you would Like to play, the thing is… we like it as it is.

If you do not wish to sacrifice combat effectiveness, to gain a speed boost, you wish to play a game that is not Gw2.

Wow, slippery slope.

It’s not uncalled for to request that all classes and builds have access to the same out-of-combat travel speed. That doesn’t mean a player doesn’t want to play GW2, merely correct a perceived imbalance.

But, it’s a dev decision for WvW/PvP purposes, probably. There’d be no reason to do such a thing for PvE. Why should my support warrior get to an event before any kind of mesmer? Seeing that horn/Disc gets me the fastest travel, that’s what I built for. And I like the results, but that’s a personal decision I kinda wish I didn’t have to make.

Is it a deal-breaker? Nah. I still like the game.

Ranael.6423:

If I would change one thing to defiance it would only be to make it stripable by boon removal…. it would really make necro shine more in dungeon and make mesmer stronger in that role. Boon stripping is mostly useless in PvE so adding this could make it a bit more useful.

There is that. Having more ways to strip Defiant would make those interrupts more frequent. It’s not like they last long anyway, 2-3 sec at the most. Having a boon-strip also remove one tick of Defiant would help those control characters contribute.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Tybalt and Tonn hit me in the gut a bit. Tybs will always be my bud and telling Tonns wife…that was hard for me. I really didn’t want to.

Recently I wasn’t so much as sad, but angry and super protective when

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

those inquest started advancing on Taimi after they wrecked Scruffy. Oh man I went full on ape when I got control again during that fight. And seeing all the people just choked out and hanging from the thorn vines has been intense in that “oh its on” kinda way.

Yeah, the Taimi moment got me too. I mean, it was predictable, but the voice actor did a top notch job. Before that moment, I merely wanted to kick Phlunt in the head. After that, I wanted to kick Phlunt in the head in a manner that separated it from his body and fell into the deepest part of Dry Top.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Just my 2 coppers.

I’m not overly horrified like many players here over the changes made to the Trait system. I think the idea of earning the Traits as you go along is a GOOD idea….I just think it was implemented in a poor manner.

Yes. Very much yes. Tasks aren’t balanced for completion time or difficulty, nor for the levels in which traits open. Pushing progression back to levels 30-80 instead of 15-80 just makes leveling a slough.

While I got a few by accident while going for 100% zone completion (ugh), I still had to stumble on them if I didn’t specifically want them. I feel it would be better to have challenge markers much like skill points, and if the player succeeds at the task, he gets the trait.

Dusty Moon.4382:

None of these points are ever addressed or even discussed, objectively, by the pro-mount side. They usually use ‘that is a nonsense argument’ or ‘I will ignore that argument since it negates mine’.

…Well, no, actually, some people actually provide ideas on how it would work, with the understanding that, yes, it would take development time to do so.

But acknowledging that is totally counter to ‘I will ignore that argument since it negates mine’ that I frequently see from most “anti-mount” posts. Like some of the above in this thread and many of the others.

I swear, it’s bordering on partisan levels of ear-plugging, and nothing new is coming from it.

As Dusty pointed out, it’s not a question of need vs not-need or want vs not-want, it’s a highly technical issue requiring balance and lots of high-level decisions. To reduce it to “I want it, even if it might annoy you” versus “I don’t want you to have it, so I say the devs are against you” is an insult to the complexity of the topic. It’s also such an interchangeable ‘argument’ as to be worthless for discussion.

Gawd, if they can’t get Charr armor right, what makes you think Jellyfish will get stuff that doesn’t clip with every tentacle?

/fake-rage

Draknar.5748:

You can…

+100% XP bonus from birthday booster, +50% XP bonus from XP booster, +100% XP from killstreak booster (when stacked to 10 stacks), food, go out and kill yellow mobs, but keep changing your area (bonus XP decreases if the mobs have been killed recently). No joke you will get a bar of XP in roughly 5 kills. Once I completed one full level before I even finished my Daily Kills and all I was doing was killing yellow mobs 2 levels above me.

This is the fastest form of leveling, even compared to EoTM.

That’s pretty impressive! Tempted to see how it would work during an Ulgoth raid, hmm.

Wethospu.6437:

Simple fixes to make control meaningful:

1) Make interrupts cause full cooldowns for PvE enemies

2) Reduce one stack (5 players -> 4 stacks)

3) Encounter design
* Add special attacks to some bosses which temporarily remove defiance.
* Add devastating special attacks to bosses which are hard to deal with blocks and dodges.
* Add strong defensive skills to bosses which have to be interrupted if you want to kill the boss fast.
* No defiance but fight against 3 – 5 (weaker) bosses at the same time
* No defiance but use stability instead
* No defiance but give boss frequent stun breaks

Yes and yes. I’ve mentioned this in similar threads. If encounter design moved away from “monoliths,” we wouldn’t have the problem of needing to prevent hard CC.

The Stability thing is a small issue, as other players have mentioned prior. Stability is a buff, which means it can be removed/stolen/converted. This might have unintended consequences. But it would also add to strategy. Of course, the boss ability would reinstate that Stability every few seconds, so it’s a matter of details.

I do love the idea of having Defiance break-points during times that players should be using CC. It’s a tad hand-holding, which is why I like interrupt armor better, but Defiance gaps don’t need to be balanced by party size.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Rauderi.8706:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Nothing, the story telling in this game is god awful.

That would make it the “saddest” thing you’ve witnessed. =P

Non-sequitur: Bad logic. That makes me sad. Therefore, forums make me sad.

So you know my emotions better than I do? When I say something isn’t sad, it’s not sad in my opinion. Something can be god awful without being sad. So kitten pls.

Bitter forum people make me sad too. ;__; Like, for humanity. Sad, sad.

Back to relevant, I was over my friend’s shoulder when Sieran died. Oddly, I had more of a reaction to that than when Forgal died. Cares given = None.

At least until some Risen chump said “You should have died with Forgal!” I gave that rotted punk the beating of his unlife. /GRR

skullmount.1758:

Rauderi.8706:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Mmm… idk. I go out of my way to massacre moas whenever I get the opportunity >.>

I can’t be alone in this.

They’re not moas.

They’re “poultry nodes.” Farm those nodes.

Oh god, the poor Moas, reduced to being called nodes

/petpet
Don’t fret, I called the critters in Rift “leather nodes” too.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Nothing, the story telling in this game is god awful.

That would make it the “saddest” thing you’ve witnessed. =P

Non-sequitur: Bad logic. That makes me sad. Therefore, forums make me sad.

Manuhell.2759:

Or they can modify those CC skills in PvE as to rebalance them, by giving additional non-CC effects – be it damage, conditions or whatever. What they lose in “control”, they gain in “damage” or “support”.

I’d be happy if I could just trait into something like that.

For example:

Merciless Hammer makes me sad right now. It’s barely useful aside from hammer cooldown, so I no longer use it. I’d actually use it if the “bonus damage” (that you might get one hit of) were replaced with “If a Disable skill (stun, KD, etc) is prevented by Block or Immune, inflict Torment.”

Stuff like that would give a solid direction for control builds to chip in on megaboss fights without giving up their potential for interrupts. It’s got a few WvW/PvP implications I’m less sure of, but it would tilt the meta a bit.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Mmm… idk. I go out of my way to massacre moas whenever I get the opportunity >.>

I can’t be alone in this.

They’re not moas.

They’re “poultry nodes.” Farm those nodes.

I’ll gladly nominate monsters for my elementalist to drop ice on.

NoxInfernus.2361:

And combine the less travelled path with a Birthday booster (if you have one) and/or a regular XP booster and the levels will fly by.
I did that on my second Ranger, combined with a little crafting every time I went to a city and I was 1-80 in no time.

Ayup! Fastest way to get extra mob-grind XP is to go Cook and Huntsman/Artificer/Weaponsmith and build those consumables for an extra 20% XP.

Try Edge of the Mists. I hear it’s a quick way to level, and you get WvW experience.
Though, it never did make sense to me to get into an MMO’s world and, y’know, not want to be in it.
I brought a friend into the game and he was always a raider, high-end stuff. GW2 doesn’t have that, so rushing to endgame isn’t well advised. He was actually mad that he got the best XP from exploring (as in, walking) instead of making digital critters go extinct.

Now that I recall, there’s a centaur event somewhere in Gendarran/Harathi that spawns rather quickly. Eight waves of four-legged lootbags ripe for the XP. Me and a guildie found it, sat around laughing about it the first time be beat it, and then it spawned again. Stomped a second centaur mudhole, took a break to manage loot, …and they spawned again. After the third run, I decided I didn’t want to be there all night, but the loot bags sold for around a gold.

What argument is necessary to compel a company to do something for its customers?
They might, zomg, like it and enjoy it? They might be able to monetize it?
The compulsion is against the development resources, then exemplify with numbers:

I heard an estimate that 3.5 million copies were sold. We’ll assume a very low retention rate, after that whole April 15th Trait debacle.

350,000 people.

Say that [feature] is popular enough to net 25% of them. This is rather generous, considering free games tend to only draw 7-11% of the population.

Around 24500 to 38500 people.

Assuming [feature] can be monetized at $15-$25 per unit:

That is $367,500 to $962,500.

That’s.. not all that encouraging, actually. Paying for development time probably would run several months worth of man hours, from many different departments, costing a hefty sum. To rattle off more estimates, $50k per person, six month development cycle, for a team of 10. ( People with development experience are more than welcome to provide more realistic estimates. )

$250,000 estimate development. That’s profit of $117,500-$712,500

But it’s also a big gamble. While I’m sure ANet could love an extra half-million, it’s all very fuzzy math and supposition. Paying a small team to crank out an outfit that might gross close to $250,000 is a much better strategy, and much easier to execute.

Auto-attack off.

Oh, trust me, I’m as cynical as the next chap, especially when it comes to ANet’s track record. But to complain about the feature pack before it’s even fully revealed?
That’s just silly.

So here’s to hoping you get that feature you wanted. …Hiding Engineer toolkits, I assume? Hard to tell the context through all the sarcasm and bitter.

Not true at all. If the combat mounts only exist in one specific zone, I will not see them if I do not go there. The thing is, those wanting cosmetic mounts In Open world, would be imposing mounts On those that do not wish to see them.

I do not wish to see mounts.

And here we have a perfect example of that " slippery slope" argument I knew would result.

Denying the antecedent is also an error. And so generalizing a small sample to a population. Or assuming that lack of effect equals cause. But whatever. It’s all timey wimey wibbly wobbly stuff.

The discussions have not been slippery slope. It’s actually the development process. An overly simplified version is attached. Because I drewed a pikshur.

Right now, mounts are in the little red or blue sections. It might even be in the little yellow section! We’ll never know. Unless they actually show up, I mean. As a kite.

munkiman.3068:

We have duels, it’s called costume brawl :P

Yeah, but some of the classes are mad OP, yo. XD

Nerelith.7360:

The advantage to a new zone with the new mechanics is that as Long as it is not made a part of say … trait skill acquisition… it is completely optional. If you don’t wish to partake, then don’t. But for those that do, it’s there.

The same could be said for the addition of mounts in open world PvE. (And nowhere else, in my opinion.) If you don’t want mounts, and mounts happen, you don’t have to have them. It’s totally opting out of a vanity/convenience item.

It’s bad enough that there are some areas where using the game’s cutesy mechanics is a major irritant, and they are required. I don’t want to take the little zap-gun with excessively long cooldowns. I don’t want to have to use awkward robots/transforms with, again, excessively long cooldowns and a lack of mobility. But the game forces it for map completion and dungeons.

So, no, I would not want a feature like that in a new zone. There is nothing that could be said to make me support that.

Except, y’know, other players thought it would be cool to storm a Flame Legion citadel while piloting a catapult-tank in the final climactic encounter. Of course, after two years, ANet still hasn’t had a Castrum-crushing player-piloted tank, which, by Law of Inertia, means it never should.

And that’s just wrong.

Just because, for the first year or so, Tequatl was just as easy as the other roll-over bosses, momentum should have indicated that it should never have been changed. Players thought challenge would be cool, and so did the devs. Players say “We want harder”, and devs gave it to them, even though the backlash was.. well.. full of whining, but that’s for another thread.

“We want [cool/fancy/interesting]” is actually sufficient reason to spur a development team to work on something. It does not, however, get the actual work done. So the conversation turns out more like this:

“We like mounts! They’re cool!”
“…Yeah, about that, we’re kinda busy, so no, not right now. Thanks for liking our game!”

It’s most likely not:
“We like mounts! They’re cool!”
“That’s a hard no, good buddy. Mounts might upset 5% of our population, so it’s not going to happen.”

I’d even accept:
“We like mounts! They’re cool!”
“We don’t feel that’s part of our vision statement at this time. Please continue to enjoy our game with the current travel options we have provided.”

Because as repetitive as “We like [feature]! [Feature] is cool!” can be, “cool” generates ideas that eventually make it into the game.

IndigoSundown.5419:

After playing the original GW as my first online game, and being able to interrupt bosses, I was shocked when I went on to other games and could not interrupt bosses at all. When I got to GW2 I could interrupt bosses sometime. So, what other games is the OP on about where bosses could be interrupted? I sure haven’t seen one.

That said, I’m with Rauderi in thinking that the Interrupt Armor concept is a better mechanic than Defiance.

Thankee, Indigo

Out of the MMOs I’ve poked my head into, interrupts are a major thing for raiding. They need to be timed just right or the party wipes, and that’s usually a job for the tank. (In WildStar, it’s actually a dps job that requires coordination. o_O) With that in mind, it does surprise me that ANet chose to make bosses absurdly resilient. The later, overpowered versions of defiant were even worse, preventing all CC from working. Boss Blitz in particular made me sad.

Of course, something has to be done to prevent stun-spamming. Or at least put it into a context that 50 people can stun-slap 15 elites and actually feel like they’ve done something, instead of 50 people chipping away pointlessly at 1 boss with 50 stacks. Adding elites to mob encounters certainly helped, but it doesn’t solve bosses.

Interrupt armor works out more cleanly, because it refreshes over time, and I think rather quickly for a boss. To translate it to GW2, if a zerg just mashes stuns whenever they come off cooldown, they’ll never break a boss, because it would take 20-50 people doing it at just the right moment for it to matter. So instead of one person messing it up for everyone (being a “bad pug” or whatever), knowledgeable and coordinated players are rewarded by being able to execute stun properly.

qbalrog.8017:

It is a vanity item but so were the wardrobe changes. Vanity is a large part of MMO play for a significant number of players (and as you noted, a great platinum sink).

Mounts are one of the things I miss in GW2. That said, nothing is free. Having built the game up without mounts, and realizing developers have fixed resources and therefore what effort is not spent on mounts is spent on other content, I can live without the mounts… even if I do pine for them from time to time.

Yup.
I’m happy with GW2 when I say I don’t need mounts. And I don’t spend 10 minutes waiting for a blimp or flying across a continent. (Not an exaggeration -_-)

But then there’s that time that, no matter how much I huff and puff, I miss an event. :\ “It would’ve been nice,” I tell myself. But then I go farm the junkyard, if I need an event credit that badly.

Considering death isn’t much of a penalty anymore, it’s not so bad to have hard fights.
Not that I fell over soloing it, but still.

RealBGB.9132:

So we all agree there is no reason to not have guild halls then right?

I dunno, it’s been two years. If they haven’t been put in yet, there must not be a compelling reason for it.

…sike, just playin’.

I’d totally love to have a customizable home instance and/or guild hall of my own, because that’d be cool. I keep wanting a new frontier zone with a new home instance that we can build up. Or, y’know, custom guild halls. For my guild of 3 people. XD

moiraine.2753:

Ok let me ask then this.Why ONLY gw2 has such buff as defiance and no other MMO?

Because other games just make them flat immune, unless it is part of the boss design.
Most games have instances that take into account the number of people and stun cooldowns.
Because another game has interrupt armor, which is like Defiance, but more fluid and based on unified player timing instead of lingering walls of immunity.

I’m disappointed by the impatience of the forum-goers. :\
It’s WEEK 1 of THREE.
Cool yon jets, folks, more’s coming.

Nerelith.7360:

Don’t forget:

Some way-points might have to be removed. Which basically nerfs any player that decides to not buy a mount.

Why would waypoints have to be removed? There’s no logic in it.
It would provide a way for a player trying to get to an event to get there faster, especially when the waypoint is contested.
That is a quality of life improvement. Not overly necessary, but I know I would appreciate it.

Some runes, sigils and traits might have to be re-designed to allow for the fact of a perma-speed boost mount. Which again nerfs players choose to not get mounts.

I’d put some thought into that, actually. While the optimal (from a speed perspective) design would be to give Swiftness+25%, some classes and builds would love to have any speed boost at all. Even an out-of-combat swiftness buff would be sufficient for most. Even a 10% boost would be seen as a boon for players that don’t want the hassle of rebuilding themselves into and out of a traveling build. Again, a quality of life improvement.
But yes, as stated above, many times, rebalancing the game to account for mounts would be an issue. It might very well be that a “basic, boring” mount is available for gold, with aesthetic options available for gems.
IF devs even go with the idea that tools/mounts for speed boost are even appropriate.
Which they have, because kite. It’s not useful to those who spec for it, but it’s handy for players who choose to use it. So, maybe that’s the “balancing point.” Make it useful for those who want it, but not useful enough to overtake someone who goes Discipline/Warhorn.

And…the above then make mounts mandatory, even for players not wanting mounts.

Concerned about getting left out of the gem market? Earn some gold. Or go without.
I hate to be capitalistic about it. Then again, the comment above about making a basic mount available from a vendor (for 100 gold?) can handle potential hurt feelings and sustain balance in that regard.

I don’t care one whit about giving an “argument” anymore. Because arguing with my attachment does nothing to advance the conversation. I’m offering proposals and solutions to stated issues. And I’m not a dev, so I can’t even assume this is a priority right now. Or will ever be. But rather than fuss and moan about it, I’m giving my opinion on how I feel it should be if it gains momentum.

What I would want:
Fair balance in execution
Convenience
Cool
Aesthetics

What I would not want:
Annoying visuals/sounds
Blocking NPCs
Feeling “required” by new designs that make use of it
(A new zone with required mount mechanics? UGH. Transformations are known to suck kitten already. Do not want. I picked my skills for a reason, and every rep quest and dungeon that made me not use them ticked me off.)
A steep cost of entry (time/gems)

Nelict.7589:

I think it’s time for us, the community, to ask for more. It’s a gem store outfit. This is unacceptable. My problem is that designers knew about the horrific clips if you don’t wear a helmet and yet, they decided to go on and put it up for real money (for some players) instead of holding up a few weeks to fix the issues. I am really sad for this. I am sad not about the outfit, or any outfit, but with the whole idea of putting unfinished and badly designed things on gem store/game. I want to support them, but I will never support lazy and unfinished projects.

PS: Images are from http://dulfy.net/ and from dulfy video – GW2 Ceremonial Plated Outfit and Belinda’s Greatsword Skin : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owVa_uekeEo

YIKES. I was going to pick this one up, since it’d be nice to have a Heavy armor set, but looking at those issues…

Again, after Traits and now this, I have to wonder if ANet bothers testing anything before they release it. :\

I only rerolled twice. Once to change a name from a pun to something lore appropriate.
Second because the group I made him for fell apart.

The rest I have a long-term plan for in a Google doc. XD
Spec, weapons, race, storyline I haven’t seen yet. All planned out.

Trial accounts are usually limited in their interaction with full members. Often times, they can’t trade/mail, as a way to hedge out their influence on the economy.

Problem is, goldspammers can use free accounts to whisper/map chat against TOS with very little consequence.

Clerigo.9475:

-snip-
Anything wrong with that?

Not a kitten thing wrong with that. Well said.
I see a lot of opinions that range from No to Hell No, when they should be asking the question “How can I make this work in a way that I would like or would bother me the least?”

Features bring and retain players. Saying “No” to them leads to stagnation, boredom, and to be melodramatic, death of a game. Better to say “Yes, but with the following stipulations:” than deny what other players might want.

I’ve been having the same issue!
Sometimes, I’ll be just fine, then suddenly, a huge lag spike for just a few seconds. Everything goes back to normal, but sometimes it’s consistent lag spikes. I just had 4 or 5 today.

I’d thought about this too. I’d love to have something in the home instance that serves as a garden. “Plant” 250 of a food item, and it comes back in small amounts day after day. Or something. Devil’s in the details.

Glad that worked for you!

I’d pondered doing the same for my tablet (approx. Surface Pro 2 era stats), but it can’t handle Flash games that well, much less GW2 :P

Them ninja shoulders, yo. Bad. =P

I take the outfits for what they are, a way to keep my alts stylish when I don’t want the fuss of armor sets.

I did the latest LS party plot in a big red pimp suit (aka, the winter outfit). Totally a Blood Legion thing to do.

RealBGB.9132:

This game is not set up for mounts, plain and simple.

The game is barely set up for walking. =P
How many times have players slipped off a ‘walkable’ ledge or banged their chin on a jumping puzzle floor, when those surfaces were supposed to be stable? That situation would only get worse with mounts. And they really can’t support retexturing entire maps just to accommodate it.

Maybe, maaaybe after they fix some of the ledge interactions (totally have LOS but “obstructed”? wtf? Blink back on to a slight ledge and stopped short of that melee attack you were dodging? lolno), they could consider working in larger hit-box creatures, but yeah, there’s a huge technical hurdle to jump, on top of everything else.

So, yeah, the list of major changes to the game just to accommodate traditional “mounts”?
Skill redesign
Art assets
World map

I think we’re more likely to see kites/toys/skills over actual rideable anything.

Again with the confirmation bias. -_-" It’s so hard for civility to exist, it seems.

Reasons have been given. Debates and negotiations on execution have been provided.
Whether or not you like them doesn’t matter, in the context of debate.

Please attack the Champion Prowe Mhount boss with something other than 1111111-autoattack. I’m cryin’ here. /cry

By alternate logic, WvW never needed to exist. Ever. I don’t like PvP, as it has no place in a scenario where massive threats exist and the nations band need to band together. The Mists are a weak justification for mass-army kitten comparison that just leads to more zergy gameplay. And binding map completion to WvW? OMG, I don’t want to see that. It’s annoying. Who cares if other people find it challenging or enjoyable or fun?
No to WvW.

Okay, I don’t actually feel that way, mostly. =) Map completion bit is totally true though. Bad, bad stuff, for another commonly posted thread.

So, to break it down, ANet did a cool thing, because someone thought it would be cool and thought other people would have, omigawd, fun with it.
Was game balance considered? I hope so, because the next third-rank team that gets rofl-stomped by a battery of siege golem is gonna kitten like a kittening kitten.
With more kitten.
Kittens~ They’re fluffy.

kta.6502:

Here’s the positive way to look at this game’s situation: If people really hated this game, they would of left by now.

I wish this were more true. =P

But there’s this emotive flaw of “escalation of commitment” that promotes bad decision-making.
“I put two years into this game, therefore I love it! Anyone who wants to make this game something I don’t want is a [kitten], including ANet!”
That kind of thing.

I am, in some respects, running into that flaw myself. I’ve debating giving it up for a while, but I’m waiting patiently to see what ANet will tell us. Especially since the Feature Pack is eking out. Mm, yummy patience~

chemiclord.3978:

The issue is that those people who will twist everything said into a promise, start lynch mobs over every perceived slight, etc… will ALWAYS exist. They WILL seek to be as combative and disruptive as possible.

Running away from the table only makes those trolls STRONGER. It allows them to dictate the environment and create toxicity like we have here.

It’s not fair. It’s not right. But that’s how it is, and game developers need to understand that and interact ANYWAY. You IGNORE the trolls, you don’t walk away from the table.

Exactly.

Also, recall how well the thread in BLTC went with John Smith answering questions. He got a little sassy in the middle, but the reaction was overwhelmingly positive. He was professional and informative without giving away NDA material, and he said when he couldn’t.

Where is the PR manager for GW2, anyway? :\ This is some basic kitten, right here.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Actually, no one but A.Net really knows how much work it is. BUT, based on some of the computer modeling I have done, I can say it is probably easier to cook a toad than add mounts. First you have the drawings. Then you model the drawings. Then you add in new models of each of the professions with the various armor skins (as well as size of the professions) – also adding in the races too. Then balancing the skills. Making sure the mobs have a way to stop riders, etc. Get the picture? It is NOT as simple as people make it out to be.

Ayup.

Done poorly, you’ll have people kittening about clipping animations and shoddy aesthetics, or even how things are completely lore-inappropriate. Minor gripes, but important to the feel of the game. It’s already been hit with the odd-ball Zodiac armors or the flame-kissed stuff. And whyTF a witch’s broom? Not faulting the design decisions, but it does make the game sillier and more disjointed than it should be.

And then there’s balancing.
Oy.
While I would love to liberate some of my skills or signets for other things, some builds are created around the extra convenience of “run faster”. Rune sets have run faster to free up some other build decisions. ..etcetera. I could go on at length, but as it stands, the classes are not balanced with PvE run speed in mind.
But those stills are there and would have to be removed or redesigned. It’s a chore at best and a 6-month drag to the next feature pack or more at worst.

And then there’s deciding how much speed bonus to give, if mounts extend beyond being toys. 10%? 15%? A full 25%+Swiftness? Is it just an item, or is a new travel skill in order? If it’s a skill, what slot does it take? Cooldowns, point cost…

It’s no small amount of work.

Azhure.1857:

The strongest arguments against Mounts are:

• Outside of the Wurms in Nightfall, there is no history of mounts in the Guild Wars universe.
• With the current waypoint system and relatively small size of maps, there is no present need for mounts.
• Mounts w/buffs will likely create even further balance issues.
• Mounts w/o buffs, meaning cosmetic only, may create lag issues and flood player’s vision with even more than we already have to deal with.

These are all valid reasons against Mounts. Does that mean they will never be implemented? No. However those that want mounts MUST justify them against these reasons. If you can not – then you likely have little hope of getting ArenaNet to add them. I could very well be wrong in that because ArenaNet could just see it as another way to make money.

Thanks for summarizing the issues clearly and concisely, Azhure. It’s been stated in prior posts that the implementation would require a lot to address them. I don’t see ANet wasting time on it for all those reasons above, unless they see a cost benefit that justifies spending extensive development investment.

Rukh.9287:

Yeah, I have to admit, I can’t comprehend the “No it’s not in the game because its not in the game” argument. It seems so obviously flawed. I guess some people are just too basic to waste time with.

To be fair, her argument is thus: It’s not in the game, so there needs to be a good reason or good method to provoke action.

Which is true.

Where the execution falls apart like an April 15th Trait redesign is that reasons have been presented in other threads, conversations and dialogue have taken place, and a lot of considerations and solutions have been presented.

Without change there is no innovation, creativity, or incentive for improvement. Those who initiate change will have a better opportunity to manage the change that is inevitable.
William Pollard

Vayne.8563:

I know from stuff said by devs that Anet puts a lot of stock into metrics. They’re always watching what people play. They have stats that track everything. They know exactly how many characters were killed by a Risen Thralls during the first year.

I suppose it’s possible to put too much faith into metrics too, but I’m not sure if that’s the case.

I think if Anet would release some of the metrics, people would be very very surprised.

Metrics are good, but there are few, if any, metrics for things that don’t exist. They can’t tell how many people are in a guild hall or how many times a kitten gets ridden, because null isn’t a number.

OP’s point is more relevant to new features and systems, which get their start either in dev rooms or player suggestion forums. Granted, once the idea hits the dev level, the players’ opinion doesn’t matter for squat until release, and after that, there’s metrics.

Though, yeah, you’re right, I think another infographic or something might give the players some interesting GW2 trivia on what exactly people are doing.

Achievement Unlocked – Path 1 run 100 times.
I wasn’t even talking about mounts~ I’m tricky that way.

Also, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
[Insert feature here] is not in the game yet, because it has not been developed.

[insert feature here] might very well be an aesthetic or quality of life improvement. It might also be in development right now. [Insert feature here] might very well bring convenience and fun to the players and money to GW2. Fun and money, win-win for a development project.
But, we’re not hearing about it because of NDA, early development stages, or technical issues. Because of that silence, we won’t know if [insert feature here] will be here until it actually happens.

Of course, by the existing anti-[insert feature here], the status quo is sufficient cause to never advance, never change, and always pitch a fit when it’s mentioned. That faction can never be appeased, and will never listen to reason, because confirmation bias runs strong in the face of evidence.

So what does [insert feature here] actually stand for?

Guild halls
Guild v Guild battles
First person camera view
Super Adventure Box
New PvP maps
Removing WvW from map completion
Specific class balances
Cantha
A heavy armor class
Playable Tengu
Precursor crafting
Silk price balances
A better Trait system

None of those are in the game, so, by logic of their nonexistence, they should never be.
“The only argument I need is I don’t want [a better Trait system].” It’s so utterly interchangeable that is has no weight.
“Why waste time on [playable Quaggan]? I don’t want [playable Quaggan].” …Which is true, I don’t, but I won’t fault players would might actually have fun with it. By the Six, there would be a huge squee if [playable Quaggan] actually got announced.

Additional reference: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-and-mathematics-The-Equilibrium-theory/first#post4305106

During beta testing. Charr Warrior with a hammer. That first leaping boomquake… Instant love.

Which is odd, because I’m normally a ranged/pet dps kinda guy, and I hated Ranger when I started.

There is no compelling reason to not add them.
We do not need compelling reasons to not add them.

Compelling to whom?

ANet.

The devs are the ones to take action. If ANet wants the players to have “cool”, they give cool. Cool gives them profits.
If they don’t, resources go elsewhere, no-[insert feature here] status quo is maintained.

Who does not need to be compelled?
Players. They are not devs, each one is a solitary opinion.

If the content is provided, players will take it or not. Or, to say again, should the devs decide against the status quo on anything (Traits, anyone?) what’s to be done about it?

1) Cry nonono the entire time. This gives no compromise, and therefore, no solutions.
2) Make recommendations and adapt. Instead of kittening about the premise, find a way it would work for you.
3) Quit. Yup, some people actually quit. Quit the game. Quit the conversation. Quit their old argument and ascend in philosophy.