All this talk about “dont nerf me bro, correct culling instead” is just ridiculous. Anet trying to deal with culling issue since early BWEs, and progress still miserable. So what, we must waiting another year or two with brave “stab-stab-stealth-lol_u_cant_catch_me-here_we_go_again” boys? Bullkitten. Give us at least damage indication then we hit stealthed target by melee damage.
If your group was competent, organized and cared it would be using superior siege where/when possible. Stop being lazy.
Superior, not normal version. “O hai guys, can you please stop assaulting our keep and just wait here a little? Mr.Siegemaster refuses to sell me good enough blueprints, so i must port to MF, transmute some weak blueprints into good ones and return here asap. KK, brb, ty!”
It sounds like that commander and his followers played it as they should have and your team deserves to loose that tower/keep. You have 0 reasons to complain.
Also to all the people complaining about siege: upgrade it. If you don’t want to invest in upgrading it then stop complaining.
If you have defenders in the tower/keep and you have siege then you should be able to hold out long enough for your server to gather up and pick off the attackers. If you can’t then it’s your fault.
So you just admit that siege equipment in current state is laughably weak against any competent group, right?
Upgrades generally serve only one task – they HELP defend objectives. If you cannot bring sufficient number of defenders, or call reliable help – you generally waste your money. So check map situation and act accordingly. Upgrading towers near your respawn generally worth it (keep worth it aswell, but costs alot and they very demanding to stable supply flow), upgrading nearby supply camps also helps alot (but usually only “supply delivery amount” upgrade are really important). For other map objectives, you better ask map commander or simply donate money to him. Otherwise, you better spend your money on siege blueprints, good placed arrowcart/cata/ballysta often can defend your objective alot better and longer then most upgrades.
I know many people like to pvp solo or with small groups, unfortunately these styles are squashed and are at the mercy of large zergs that mindlessly stumble around the battlefield.
What? Small groups and lone players are perfectly alive and very valuable. You cannot perform supply war, scouting, map cleaning (from hostile roamers and small raiding groups) and watch duty with zerg. Zerg-size groups is optimal only for large assault and defense missions.
Typically 1 arrowcart is required for every 4 people ive found. A few ballista help where theres a narrow area to move. 1 – 2 Catas are good to knockdown on entry.
I have said this before, against an organised siege defence manned by 10 people, almost anything can be defended from a zerg of any size.
This is works only against unorganized crowd. You cannot stand against organized zerg with good commander, if you supply lines are cut and you haven’t enough ppl to perform portalbomb counterattacks. Siege defence at current state just too weak and can be destroyed with ease by competent group.
Now all i’m talking is CET time, and the main point is… if it wasn’t for the Russian zerg in BT you would had never won this match up quite honestly. I know that prime-time for Russians are different then to the rest of the Europe, and that is ok… but trying to argue that BT lead EU prime-time while in-fact they didn’t lead once its quite funny since the main factor that made BT won that match up was the huge morning caps that BT did against central time based servers.
The whole argument was never why we lost and who was better then who. The argument was that we had several Blacktide Central Time guilds telling us they dominated SFR in prime-time, while in prime-time they got destroyed… and then what they told us was:
-Hey, this is a 24h match up!
-Get russians to cover your off-time!
Well, seems SFR did that and now in even grounds apparently Blacktide took a “break”. Quite like when Desolation’s RUIN nation got “bored” once Blacktide reached T1. Funny huh? Seems the only guilds still fighting are RG and Nug so props to them.
First, BT didn’t seek russians for coverage, BT was one on unofficial russian servers since BWE. And in that match with SFR, russian zerg was one of primary (and largest) BT forces in morning, day, and evening. Later transfers from SF only strengthened the distribution. Therefore, the SFR began to lead only when the main force of our server went to sleep, and only a few BT EU guilds were fighting. The guys from the CIR and ThUN themselves just physically could not hold all the maps against the huge zergs.
Second, BT started losing players and whole pieces of guilds (critical pieces, such as a morning zerg, 2/3 of daytime map commanders, and the entire map contol chain from the morning to the evening teams) two weeks before the current match, otherwise we would not be in second place of ladder table at the beginning of the match. In the state in which BT has come in T1, we were definitely the most powerful server in the European ladder. This is not bragging, it’s a fact.
Obviously you don’t know us very well, maybe you didn’t switch map enough …
I was a member of the former Xaoc “morning-day” team, responsible for reception of all 3 borders from morning team and hold them until the evening, and the arrival of primetime guilds and our evening team. Correspondingly, we met the guilds and players who tried to take the land back from full cap state, and saw exactly who it was. HuP were always been the first (and often only) organized force that tried to do something, while the presence of French players do not grow to a sufficiently large numbers.
Hello, yes Same you are right. On Vizunah, with the Grand Cross alliance and the Vizunians, we do everything possible to hold our positions. I think nobody on other servers realize the daily work we put on Vizunah. We have a real soul, what i call the Vizunah Spirit. We NEVER give up, even when the situation is terrible.
This is what we are fighting for.
I do not want to offend anyone, but … Honestly, of all the guilds of VZ, during the dominance of BT we mostly saw only one guild that really never gave up and fought in the most hopeless situations – it’s Hold Up (HuP). We really started to respect the morale of those guys. The rest prefer to sit on the EB, appear closer to primetime or then VZ was in control.
SFR seem to win during EU-prime time 5 out of 7 days. As you can see at around 2-4 am is when BT starts getting a huge amount of points.
Lolwut? Do you even watch at graphic at your link?
Day 1 – BT lead almost all day, SFR lead at night.
Day 2 – BT lead almost all day, near 23h-0h SF takes lead again.
Day 3 – SF lead night and morning, BT lead all time after.
Day 4 – same.
Day 5 – same.
Day 6 – after BT reach 90k leadership and begin play for fun, SFR finally manage to get upper hand at primetime score.
Day 7 – BT doesn’t cap anything seriously, SFR on lead.
So i see SFR dominate only at nightcap field (or then BT was not play seriously at all). If this is their “primetime”, then sure, they beat us in primetime, lol.
P.S. Everyone who wans see real situation from BT POV – set your PC clock at UTC+4 (russian time), then refresh MOS graph. It’s really fun to see all those great SFR forum warriors starting to lead only after majority of BT players leave to sleep.
LOL to VZ claiming they have no 00-06 coverage.
Maybe your strat this week is to call your nightforce to sleep so you win by boring your enemies. Typical blueball EVE strategy.
Should I be impressed?
VZ have decent nighttime coverage. And more important – they have decent 24h coverage, with usual peak at EU primetime. If you manage to keep up with them, you probably win, because overall quality of VZ zergs far from ideal, but if you leave significant hole in your WvW time schedule, they beat you by score and map control. We cant compete with them anymore at morning-daytime, because Xaoc is nearly fall apart atm (we lost 1/2-2/3 of active players, large chunk of command line and morning team), and other BT guilds are more EU primetime and cannot switch schedule to compensate lost time coverage.
Vizunah Square, the only Server that was T1 from the start and now gets to Nr.1 again. This wont be repeatable, not by Blacktide not by any other Server that just got to the top because of WTJ.
I really do not understand what that message trying to say. No one else is able to take the top spot again, or what?
looking at the “scaling” of open world champions in PvE and how they just get destroyed by a zerg I fear you are right :-/
If you need full-sized zerg to kill the commander, and the event will occur often enough – it’s ok, because it forces the defenders to keep sizable force on the border just for this task.
30 people killing one person. Good sport and should definitly be rewarded.
Rewarding Roflstomping is bad, because it promotes stuff like zergs. If it is easier to win a fight, but you still get the same reward, why should you not make your life as easy as possible by grouping up to the biggest zerg ever.
Wrong. If you want to be effective, you must use zerg as main offensive and defensive force (coming on defense by call), and small groups/single players as scouts, watchers, camp raiders and map sanitize teams (find&intercept roamers, capture lake objectives, retake camps, etc.). If you want to do things otherwise and try to do zerg job with small teams, it’s your decision, but don’t complain then your small groups were crashed by normal zerg groups.
Alt-F4 is going to be fixed and yet someone complains about it? Ze kitten? In heavy fights, like assault of full captured and upgraded borderland, you can easily die 10 times in 30 mins, and nobody complains about it, but here, “OMG I WILL BE FORCED TO PAY 1.9s ON ALT+F… ERR, ON RANDOM DISCONNECT, REVERT THIS CHANGE kitten ”. Pathetic.
Sad to see the number of WvW participants decreases every week, for example, the number of players on our side was almost halved, and the French servers is clearly experiencing the same problems (we almost do not see a noticeable number of AS players this week). Developers should really pay attention to the state of WvW.
I suggest this:
- Invader kills
- Complete X offensive events (destroying weather nodes and capture temple of storms counts, in case of heavy server imbalance)
- Complete Y defensive events (building weather nodes and “kill <mobname> veteran” counts, in case of heavy server imbalance)
100 pieces of siege. Even assuming they are all Trebs(because they are most expensive besides golems) that is 24 gold worth of siege a day. Split among 20 people in the guild that is only 1.2 gold a day which can easily be made in a at most 2 hours of WvW unless you truly just sit in a tower and never see a sole. In which case you aren’t using siege anyways.
My guild spending near 100g in siege equivalent per DAY, just to keep up pressure and ensure stable point flow (i dont count cost of structure upgrades and superior siege), and we can compensate it only because our guild are huge. If your guildmates are ok with giving 1g+ to your GM every day, fine, but not all guilds can recruit so much such generous members.
WwW really could use some kind of reward and progression system. Currently, if you participate in the WvW battles, you get absolutely miserable rewards compared to those who are involved in PvE or make dungeon/fractal runs all day every day. Stay on watch duty to ensure map control, observation and fast calling your commanders for help, spending your money on upgrades, siege and repairs, when someone get easy money and exotics from PvE? So much equality. Heck, i even dont see in any foreseeable future at least title reward, although I are participating in the fighting since the start of the game and am a member of the guild, which took a solid part in bringing our server into first place of EU ladder.
I don’t care about reputation. Just wanted to say something objective because of the amount of crap we can read there. If i had been disrespectfull, that wasn’t what i wanted but it’s a fact that you’re hands are free because we (As) fight the Vz and we don’t care about you (Vz do the same). If it wasn’t, you wouldn’t win that easily. If you were hurt because i said Xaoc was doing PvDoors, Be happy i could have been a real troll saying that you were zerging all day long, i could make a video too were we could see the High gaming level that you provide… being crushed by ten PU of As sometimes less when you are about fifty in your zerg without counting the Pu that follows you…
Right! Thank you for allow us take 1st place, mighty one, we are really appreciate it. You and your guild are doing all the hard work to ensure our pitiful leadership.
P.S. Maybe you listen to the previous request and go troll somewhere else?
5 pages of grongrats between MOS and RG… Talking about impact and strategy.
Most of AS players could say that MOS is one of the worst team of the server. They are totally un-efficient if we look at the number they are + the PUG that followed them…
I agree when i read VZ zerg is weak but in my opinion, our (As), is also as weak and your’s to…
RG isn’t that powerfull, they are just a little more organised than the others… Two weeks ago most of the french guilds didn’t even know that they could combine skills from different characters to make something else than mass speed…
If you guys on BT had a hard time fighting us while we are outnumbered most part of the time. You should start praying that the ego-war between the french server won’t stop cause the day it would be a real 3W you’ll have only night capping to save you. And it won’t work for a long time… Some day Xaoc might be tired of PvDoors…
Troma Guild Master Never Hide.
1/10 for make me reply. We respect AS community, but people like you do not contribute to a good reputation. Go troll somewhere else plz.
If you spread out and don’t turtle, removing the AoE limit will not crush an entire zerg since there is a radius limit on all AoE attacks. It will crush the dozens of people who huddle together using the % to their advantage (hoping they are not one of the 5).
You cannot stay spread all time. If AOE cap will be removed, then 5 ele + 5 necro will easily be able to completely lock any breached gate/wall with aoe, making impossible to pass by.
2.There is a limit of seige on a map I think it’s like 200
This. Without despawn, someone can simply build 200 arrowcarts inside SM and bam, no more rams, trebs, catas or golems on map, enjoy assaulting full upgraded towers and keeps with bare hands.
Funny how BT players really claim they got to Nr.1 without the help of external guilds… Why are you so afraid of the truth? NO Server will ever get to Nr.1 without external guilds and players joining them, Vizunah was an exception as they were the Server with the biggest nightcoverage from the start. I know of ATLEAST 5 good organized guilds that left the server i play on to join Blacktide when it was on the rise. Blacktide IS the best EU Server rightnow and this is not only because of the massive immigration they had. Ofc a solid basic is crucial to even attract other guilds and im sure Blacktide has this kind of basic. But saying you did that all on your own is just ignorant and everyone knows this is not possible the way ANet has made WvW.
Can you show a quotation, in which we argue that the first place – only our merit? All we have argued – is that we have taken on the responsibility for covering the most problematic for Europe time zones as find outside help for this task is very difficult. We tried to show you the problem, as well as the way in which we solved it, but for that you just started to accuse us of trolling. Apparently this is the way the discussion that you find the best. We wish you good luck.
It’s not about “hey BT is soo cool look at us”. It’s just about really big problems with recruitment night guilds, atm its only ruin, and afaik they decide to come on EU by themselves, not by some kind of invitation company. Homemade crew is much more simple and realistic solution then endless waiting for some US guild. Even if you make daytime crew it can help reduce nightcap impact alot and give your primetime guilds good base to fight.
@Rednik:3809
BTW the strongest part of BT at the moment are this “External” guilds so U cant say to others servers something like that:
- “Dont seek external help to cover nightshift, rise your own night/morning team instead, it will be alot more stable and reliable.”
This “External” guilds are EU primetime. They are all do excellent work and have very strong ppl, but we dont demand from them “go and capture those maps at morning, and hold them until others come”. We try to do this part by ourselves, to maximize benefit for all server.
And do please tell me, oh mighty. How do you do that when there is barely no Russians/Americans/Oceanic people in your server?
If you could make people to wake up at 6am Moscow time, congratulations although they should probably be waking up for work/study but if they can spare the free time, then good for them. But in our case we can’t. If you check FUBAR website all major guilds have work times/shifts so its just not possible – therefore people seek “external” help…
We are specifically looking for these people in our ranks. Before, we are also actively seeking help to cover the morning and night, but in the end we realized that to find something like this is very difficult and its easier to organize ourselves, and allow guilds who came from other servers comfortably fight for us at EU primetime.
Reach external help? Like guilds such as CIR, Unnamed, RG, GF, Ruin, shall i go on just to mention a few from Blacktide?
And yes, they are your (Xaoc’s) off-time people, since your time zone is different from theirs…
When we were in the middle of the ladder, and needed help, we begin to organize better time cover and create morningshift out of native BT resources. All guilds named by you transfer AFTER that, and after we are defeat they servers on battlefield, proving that our server is worthy to fight for it. Our first morning team wake up on CTA every day near 6:00 Moscow time, then come another team, another and another, who takes, upgrades and defends objectives and keep them for guilds playing in EU primetime. So, what’s wrong in organize your own server forces for critical timezones instead of summon some external PvD guys who does not feel any obligations to your server community and can leave you at any moment?
P.S. Lots of BT guilds (like Nugos, GF, DZ and more) are russians too and play in EU primetime. We just separate our CTA timers for better coverage, because no one can keep people on the battlefield all day.
P.P.S. I not intended bashing on someone, just try to say that your own ppl is much more valuable if you manage to organize them.
So Deso destiny wont teach you anything? Dont seek external help to cover nightshift, rise your own night/morning team instead, it will be alot more stable and reliable.
Return of doly escort rewards is good thing. But removing AOE cap isn’t, because it turns every class with good AOE into walking arrowcart (as minimum). It will have far worse impact on WvW then any turtle.
I loved the leaderboards in daoc. No you don’t get shiny ranks for defending or running supplies. Is that really an issue? If it is you should be up in arms because your reward is nothing compared to kills/objectives. Otherwise you’re just trying to troll and should take it elsewhere.
An issue is system that will be encouraging mindless “gogo take frags/capture objectives” instead of actual fight for server point leadership.
Sooo… if you going with zerg/roam party and constantly score kills/take objectives, you get new shiny ranks, and if you defend, run supply lines and basically grant your server points, you get almost nothing? Such nice idea here…
Here is a thought, remove Repair costs on stomp for WvW, add in an Attackers event system like you guys have for Defense. Spent about an hour tonight fighting 12 – 1 odds trying to take a keep. I realized they are being rewarded DEFENSE CREDIT and making Money / Exp / Karma, while my team of only 5 people, who were fighting this zerg and trying to take the keep was being awarded NOTHING. That seems a bit harsh, where is my ATTACKERS CREDIT?
So someone can just run around all map, deal some damage to npc guards here and where, and then after end of all attack events get multiple rewards? Not best idea, imho.
