Guild Wars 2

Seras.5702:

Another awful thing about Ret with grenades: You have 1 target selected. Target is 1100 range. You see the boons. No Ret. You let loose a barrage of grenades, your toolbelt is unleashed, poison grenades tumble through the sky, fiery pain is imminent….and then your target pops an aoe Ret. You now have nearly a dozen grenades in the air about to crash into an evil grin. They hit. Your target staggers, coughs, heals, looks through the dust….at your corpse.

Long range, slow moving, multi-hit, aoe attacks = death

^^^ This every single darn time LOL

alrite im starting to consider doing this :

Playing as a thief and those saying it is perfectly fine will pvp me 1 vs 1 as anything except mesmer and thief.

GG guys i see what you are doing insulting the OP so the thread gets closed Brilliant .

LoreChief.8391:

OP can’t seem to do much, they can’t even counter stealth mechanic.

Being detected upon hit would only make sense if they buffed stealth in other ways (such as longer durations). Otherwise you’re suggesting that stealth never work again in general. What’s the point in even having close combat as a Thief if every greatsword wielding thug with a single finger on their hand can just press any one of their massive AoE skills and discover the thief immediately? Oh he stealthed? Here let me swing my sword around once because of its huge arch and I’ll find him in .25 seconds!

Sorry OP, your inability to counter stealth doesn’t mean its OP, it means you’re dumb.

When have i EVER said i could not counter stealth nor that it is uncounterable Read before pulling answers out of your behind and insulting others ,dumber dumb person .

EchenSketch.9142:

Having played every class in Gw2, stealth is a non-issue. L2P

^the answer everyone was awaiting for

CONGRATULATIONS YOU ARE THIS THREAD’s COMMON L2P RESPONDER !!!

one thing is playing every class and another is actually leveling it to max level and stocking it in max gear and Excelling it i do not think you ve played even 3 classes beyond level 20

Topher.1684:

Rezzet.3614:

Olba.5376:

Rezzet.3614:

simple

1.Stealthed players take double damage

2.stealthed players lose stealth upon attacking (at least when they hit a “Blocking” or “Invulnerable” or “Evade” player.

3.become unable to instantly restealth afterwards.

4. get focused as target once they lose stealth

5.20-30% movement speed Decrease while stealthed

1. Why? Thieves have medium armor and the lowest base health, plus extremely limited access to Protection. Without stealth, Thieves are forced to go the route of evade spamming.
2. What kind of sense does that make? How about everyone lose health and/or get stunned/dazed/knocked down when they hit someone who’s blocking?
3. There is already a 3 second Revealed that you cannot get around if you attack from stealth. If you do not attack in stealth, you can restealth immediately.
4. Makes no sense. That would just mean that in a group setting, a Thief could be used as an aggro anchor by an organized team. Not to mention that it would make WvW even more of a mess than it already is.
5. Makes no sense, considering that there’s a trait giving +50% movement speed while in stealth.

1.engineers have medium armor as well and they dont have infinite stealth nor initiative system

2.how does it make sense for someone to bash a shield with a dagger or sword or hammer and still remain undetected by the target?

3.precisely the problem the debuff should apply even if the playerdoes not hit a target wich would balance out the d/p perma stealth thiefs nowadays

4.i agree this was a terrible suggestion for group fights

5.precisely wich would make the trait make thiefs move at normal speed during stealth if traited basically this simply adds risk to skill spammers .(disagree with this one to some extent since this is thief’s swiftness basically )

1) Engineers also have more hp and sources of protection. (I think comparing what one class has to another is pointless anyway, otherwise we would just end up with 1 class with different looking armours) Double damage on stealth would pretty much mean a death sentence to going into stealth most of the time (would kill all /d builds that use CnD). Would also make many of our stealth skills useless (SR? Last Refuge?…oh god Last Refuge…)

2) While I don’t think thief should remain undetected when he gets blocked/evaded from stealth, your argument doesn’t work. Turn off the lights and have a friend throw something at you. Can you tell where he is if you block/duck out of the way?

3) The Debuff is there as a penalty to using stealth skills (so the thief can’t spam them). A better balance to the d/p stealth spam would be to put a limit on leap finishers, or prevent leap finishes that grant stealth from stacking. Putting the reveal on after coming out of stealth would also hurt mesmers.

4) I don’t know why this keeps coming up. This (again) would really hurt mesmers.

5) A movement % decrease in stealth would require a hefty buff to stealth duration. It works like this in other games because stealth is not a limited time buff. You toggle it and then move around to get into position. Probably the worst idea of the bunch. A possible solution would be to have the 50% trait apply only for a few seconds (gets refreshed when stealth is REAPPLIED? so stacking stealth would still only result in like 3-5 sec of movement speed)

Oh another note, Can a mod please get rid of this topic (or lock it please)

^boo hoo someone pointed out facts about thieves and i dont want my class fighting evenly with others

1. each of those hp or protection sources is a major trait that dint go to damage or kits or whatever , thiefs also happen to have the ability to steal boons

2.how the heck do you see logic in this argument, turn off the lights step aside and tell your friend to throw somethign where you were guess what nothing happens cuz neither one sees each other , if i blocked something thrown at me it would at least reveal his current or previous location

3.the debuff needs a revamp so that it works even if the thief does NOT damage a target thus preventing perma stealth

4.as i previously said it was a stupid suggestion, so this one should be scratched
5.50% movement speed is too much when you can spam stealth almost indefinetly and have a 25% movement speed signet

Zacchary.6183:

Rezzet.3614:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRcTKt47ixk

based on this how to be skilled thief= sequence 5,2,1,1,1,1,1 or F1,5,2,1,1,1,1,1

it is just too effective cooldownless AoE blind+stealth/damage/gap closer/opener in 2 keys wanna run from said thief? Nope number 3 skill is cooldownless shadowstep gg

Do you think you can replicate that vid?

i canno replicate videos as my video card is old as hell however i can indeed fight as effective as in that vid and i ve only played thiefs for a total of 12 hours

based on this how to be skilled thief= sequence 5,2,1,1,1,1,1 or F1,5,2,1,1,1,1,1

it is just too effective cooldownless AoE blind+stealth/damage/gap closer/opener in 2 keys wanna run from said thief? Nope number 3 skill is cooldownless shadowstep gg

Olba.5376:

Rezzet.3614:

simple

1.Stealthed players take double damage

2.stealthed players lose stealth upon attacking (at least when they hit a “Blocking” or “Invulnerable” or “Evade” player.

3.become unable to instantly restealth afterwards.

4. get focused as target once they lose stealth

5.20-30% movement speed Decrease while stealthed

1. Why? Thieves have medium armor and the lowest base health, plus extremely limited access to Protection. Without stealth, Thieves are forced to go the route of evade spamming.
2. What kind of sense does that make? How about everyone lose health and/or get stunned/dazed/knocked down when they hit someone who’s blocking?
3. There is already a 3 second Revealed that you cannot get around if you attack from stealth. If you do not attack in stealth, you can restealth immediately.
4. Makes no sense. That would just mean that in a group setting, a Thief could be used as an aggro anchor by an organized team. Not to mention that it would make WvW even more of a mess than it already is.
5. Makes no sense, considering that there’s a trait giving +50% movement speed while in stealth.

1.engineers have medium armor as well and they dont have infinite stealth nor initiative system

2.how does it make sense for someone to bash a shield with a dagger or sword or hammer and still remain undetected by the target?

3.precisely the problem the debuff should apply even if the playerdoes not hit a target wich would balance out the d/p perma stealth thiefs nowadays

4.i agree this was a terrible suggestion for group fights

5.precisely wich would make the trait make thiefs move at normal speed during stealth if traited basically this simply adds risk to skill spammers .(disagree with this one to some extent since this is thief’s swiftness basically )

Zacchary.6183:

Player Character.9467:

Black Teagan.9215:

Rezzet.3614:

simple

1.Stealthed players take double damage

2.stealthed players lose stealth upon attacking (at least when they hit a “Blocking” or “Invulnerable” or “Evade” player.

3.become unable to instantly restealth afterwards.

4. get focused as target once they lose stealth

5.20-30% movement speed Decrease while stealthed

OKAY and where is the balance now?

Besides the taking increased damage, all of those except 4 are mechanics that exist in basically every other game that has stealthing in pvp and most of those also have methods of detecting stealthed characters too. 3 already exists, 4 makes perfect sense if you had them targeted before, they didn’t break line of sight, and you didn’t target anything else. 2 is something that shoulda been fixed about revealing yourself from stealth a long time ago, there’s no risk in spamming backstab on somebody until it lands as it has 0 cost and currently you remain stealthed until it ACTUALLY lands. The current mechanic makes it impossible for somebody to take advantage of blinding you, guessing when you’re going to strike, using an aegis or any other block (which are on much higher cooldowns than reveal). Currently as far as I can tell the only real defense against a backstab is endure pain as the hit actually lands but the damage is converted to 0.

Its called moving.

^this is called not having a reasonable explanation nor excuse for a broken mechanic

Sardonia.8196:

The question I have is, what will be the cost of one piece of ascended gear? First you must level to 500? I have a feeling that is going to be quite costly. Secondly then you must make the T7 mats which probably will not be cheap.
I would love to know the cost. My guess 50-100 gold a piece. who knows.

all i can say is it better be like Legendary armor with all sorts of glowy and sparkly effects Twilight anyone?

Aegael.6938:

Wish list: Anet fixes the numerous bugs and makes both power-based builds and turrets viable in actual mid to high level PvP.

Reality:

-Fixed an issue where Engineers could achieve large uptime on Swiftness.
Speedy Kits now has a 15 second internal cooldown and only activates in combat.

-Fixed an issue where Engineers could achieve large uptime on Vigor.
Invigorating Speed now has a 15 second internal cooldown and only activates in combat.

-Fixed an issue where Engineers could achieve large uptime on Protection.
Protection Injection’s Protection buff reduced to 1 second. Increased cooldown to 20 seconds.

-Improved Fumigate’s scaling coefficient from 0.05 per tick to 0.06.

^ something like this is what i foresee happening

simple

1.Stealthed players take double damage

2.stealthed players lose stealth upon attacking (at least when they hit a “Blocking” or “Invulnerable” or “Evade” player.

3.become unable to instantly restealth afterwards.

4. get focused as target once they lose stealth

5.20-30% movement speed Decrease while stealthed

dunno about you guys but i’d hope to have multiple characters with multiple viable builds before i turn 90 years old .

get pve out of your heads for once those saying time gated content is fine all seem to play only pve wich is why they dont see a problem so yeah go to wvw with Blue gear and face a player with ascended and fully exotic gear and hit each other with auto attack tell me how its the same then .

again the problem is the fact that everything is time gated wich pretty much forces players to not make and use alts at all

pretty much takes about 2-4 months (gg casual players) to get ONE set of ascended gear for one character wich means you gotta spend 2-4 more months if you want to get another set for another build and 2-4 months per set per alt you’d basically have to spend 2 years to get 2 sets for about 3-4 characters (unless you grind fractals and are so extremely lucky you get the ascended items you wanted)

AsmallChicken.9634:

The runes are even more blatantly op on a warr who can get 9 stacks of confusion with each interrupt (and they have alot of them).

this so much i dunno why engineers are the ones getting all the hate to begin with

Chaba.5410:

NERF has at least two engineers with this rune. One is an FT engi and the other specializes in popping Elixir X, the build really being defined by the rune. We are waiting for the nerfhammer…

yup im the elixir x engi and pretty much use and pray for tornado(wink wink eles) to wreck zergs however i dont really have a build specified for the runes my build is pretty much bunker grenadier

if Anything all this runes have done is highlight how broken confusion as a condition really is .

you guys must be bad as i had a mesmer outrun my engineer wich had perma swiftness build and i even crippled and froze her some times as well

Asomal.6453:

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

This is l2p. Thieves are still and always will be wildly overpowered. Engineers are Anet’s kitten child swept under the rug and forgotten. They’ve got zero viability and have to play predictable roles that you can easily counter if you know how they work.

The things we have to read in this forum…

sad but true to some extent

the answer to OP’s question is simply that thief’s skill ceiling is too small wich means even unskilled players can dominate other classes without putting much work wich is why they end up being a disaster when they face skilled players that know how to counter thiefs

heres the thing yesterday i had 4870 achievement points did some achievement and got 10 points bringing the total to 4880 afterwards did some invations and got up to 10 achievements completed wich should have given me a total of 45 points(if not more)
yet today when i check my score it was at 4880 , 4899 currently is this some known bug

edit: i ll just assume i missread my score or something and had less than the first score i posted and dint remember.

Lux.7169:

Cruuks build is definitely unique and not an exploit. He focuses on a highly intensive stealth build which is extremely easy to counter.

He wants to pull 2 people to far while he dances around trying to prep his might-stacked BS. The problem being that without his 10-20 might stacks and stealth he is extremely weak.

Easy solution to never die to cruuk as a home-point bunker: whenever you see a black powder on the ground then stand in it. Eat a heart seeker to reveal him. His HS is EXTREMELY weak since he has very weak power and no might stacks on. He does SO much prep and it can all be ruined just by standing on his BP since HS has about a 400 hit radius. Easiest thing to counter in the game sine he never fights to keep the point contested.

thing is heartseeker doesnt have a cast time of 5 seconds so unless you are at melee range with the enemy thief intercepting to do what you said is near impossible

well here ya go

i ll go make a mesmer right now (4th one i make lol)

Lokki.1092:

Rezzet.3614:

so short sumary make this

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Compounding_Celerity

give 25% movement speed out of combat then canceled when mesmer engages combat and give it the 10% speed per clone buff

EVERYONE HAPPY
Black sheep wall
Operation cwal

Everyone happy? Not anyone who already has an impossible time catching a mesmer… which is just about everyone. And not the poor guardian who is left in the dust along side the mesmer now.

the real problem with mesmer mechanics is the clones with combination of other mechanics wich isnt a part of this thread’s discussion

but yeh clones besides having their own effects and shatters can be traited and do stuff like:

permanent retaliation on each clone- this is the reason why people dont defend gates in wvw other than wvw i find it perfectly fine tho. as for why wouldnt i consider it fine in wvw well i ve seen even mesmer only guild zergs and theres not much you can do against those without siege.

applies confusion when killed -This is somewhat unfair

applies confusion on shatter (wich might stack with the above trait)

applies random conditions when killed

so short sumary make this

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Compounding_Celerity

give 25% movement speed out of combat then canceled when mesmer engages combat and give it the 10% speed per clone buff

EVERYONE HAPPY
Black sheep wall
Operation cwal

also another thing that dint help is the OP used the below lines to justify his wants wich is what started the war people probably wouldnt mind a speed buff but when you go and tell someone else they deserve better because of something everyone can get then it goes wrong as it sounds you are infact blaming other classes.

Now that “everyone” has access to portals

Whats the excuse for not giving mesmers a much needed 25% movement speed increase signet utility option?

selan.8354:

Rezzet.3614:

CrossedHorse.4261:

Rezzet.3614:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feigned_Surge
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Leap
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy

this is what mesmer would lose if they where to have permanent speed increase

aka stealth and blink/teleports

mesmer doesnt need 100% uptime speed buff because of all the control they have during combat

mesmers would simply be uncatchable during combat with all the clones teleporting and stealth and 25% movement speed it would be like a ranged version of thiefs

I agree. It seems that Mes users want an extra slot for this speed buff, rather than having to give up any of the skills they currently have and love.

I am all for them having a signet if they want it, but some people fail to realise that the other professions don’t just have a buff built-in. To equip the buff, we need to make another sacrifice somewhere else.

mesmer does have a speed buff trait like eveyrone else :

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Compounding_Celerity

dude just looking up wiki aint gonna help u uunderstand the mesmer ok!

we have a problem to go from point a to point b, because we are so slow. the Compounding Celerity works with illusions. how many illusions do i run with when i try to get to a keep?
NONE, because it requires a TARGET!omg u dont know ANYTHING about mesmers so please stop quoting wiki and trying to prove a point that u dont have! and btw wtf does ral and confusion have to to do with any of that?

Kid

if you want something to be changed look at how it would affect all parts of the game

just because something would affect somewhere positively doesnt mean it would not affect negatively

now read up and you ll see i agreed mesmers could use a speed buff OUT of combat

selan.8354:

Rezzet.3614:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feigned_Surge
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Leap
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy

this is what mesmer would lose if they where to have permanent speed increase

aka stealth and blink/teleports

mesmer doesnt need 100% uptime speed buff because of all the control they have during combat

mesmers would simply be uncatchable during combat with all the clones teleporting and stealth and 25% movement speed it would be like a ranged version of thiefs

dude u have never played a mesmer have u?

ok blink yes moves u forward to catch up a little. u might wanna check the range and cooldown on that yeah

feigned search is only under water

decoy?!?! wtf 3 sec stealth and long cooldown

phase retreat?!?!?! i ports u backwards and to random spots behind u

ileap? fails 90 percent of the time, can be dodged and clone dies way to quick in wvw for it to even work.

wtf has that to do with swiftness increase? uncatchable? because we actually get a chance to retreat if we see a zerg? have u actually ever tried to get out of combat?
we would never be as mobile as a thiev or an ele., but i’d like to be able to reach a keep in time or be there for the cap, but my current swiftness prevents me from all that and if just one stupid pve drake hits me once, it takes even longer.

i do agree mesmer could use a speed signet or out of combat speed buff

however i disagree with all the people claiming mesmers are useless because they dont have it or that other classes are godlike because they have swiftness.

in combat mesmers have no problem catching up to me

Zerg- applies to every class (except thief cuz of perma stealth and high mobility)

if you are touch even by a mosquito you are most likely gonna die if a zerg is incoming and theres no tower/keep around and/or you choose Not to use a Waypoint.
(if you dint have time to kill or escape from the npc odds are zerg was already so close you couldnt have outrunned it even with swiftness)

CrossedHorse.4261:

Rezzet.3614:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feigned_Surge
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Leap
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy

this is what mesmer would lose if they where to have permanent speed increase

aka stealth and blink/teleports

mesmer doesnt need 100% uptime speed buff because of all the control they have during combat

mesmers would simply be uncatchable during combat with all the clones teleporting and stealth and 25% movement speed it would be like a ranged version of thiefs

I agree. It seems that Mes users want an extra slot for this speed buff, rather than having to give up any of the skills they currently have and love.

I am all for them having a signet if they want it, but some people fail to realise that the other professions don’t just have a buff built-in. To equip the buff, we need to make another sacrifice somewhere else.

mesmer does have a speed buff trait like eveyrone else :

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Compounding_Celerity

well sure give them 25% heck 50% but take away these:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Retribution

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Confusing_Combatants

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vengeful_Images

oh and No One mentioned this:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Compounding_Celerity – why do you need a speed signet again?

stop using engineers to try justify your wants

sure engineer can get perma swift and vigor however everytime engineer changes kits several things happen

1)changing kits count as active skills wich means if fighting a mesmer each kit swap will do confusion damage

2)kits have their own skill sets wich stops the engineer from using skills

and those 20 trait points change the whole build of the engineer as each trait line is branched to diferent tools kits or weapons

Explosives=Explosion damage/grenade kit/bomb kit/condi duration
Firearms=direct damage/crit rate/rifle/pistol/elixir gun/flamethrower/condition damage
inventions=toughness/healing/Turrets/damage reduction passives
Alchemy=Boons/Vitality/potions/condition management/flamethrower
Tools=gadgets/tool belt/crit damage/kits

mesmer pretty much sticks to same skills and utilities at all times

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feigned_Surge
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Leap
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy

this is what mesmer would lose if they where to have permanent speed increase

aka stealth and blink/teleports

mesmer doesnt need 100% uptime speed buff because of all the control they have during combat

mesmers would simply be uncatchable during combat with all the clones teleporting and stealth and 25% movement speed it would be like a ranged version of thiefs

not to mention minis go poof when you click the bank collectibles button

his attacks do less damage the closer you are and no im not making it up so you get killed if you read the description under his name you ll see its true

the real problem is when he glitches and starts spamming teleport/killshot so many times so fast you cant catch up at all

or makes his 3 shot skill a 3 shot kill shot

other than that go Full zerker the whole event was designed around zerkers

its simply not possible for all classes to beat it

without berserker and stuns wich not all classes have easy access to

so how many of you actually beat it without using berserker gear again?

also why the imobilize imunity on the kitten npcs some classes like engineer rely alot on cc as for stun theres only net turrt wich is 2s stun and on whatever the hell it feels like targetting.

Holy Kitten did they even try this with Engineers and NON BERSERKER builds?

here i ll cap it so its easy to spot

Remove the Gaunlet TIMER

Not Everyone Wants to play BERSERKER

not just 1 hit mechanics but also timed its flat out cheap lazy mechanics

im starting to think devs dont test their junk before throwing it at people

innocent ouarior.1954:

It took me some tries on Elem (actually not much after I understood I have to take foods).
Did it in D/D with mucho stability, movement and healing (0/0/20/20/30).

CCing the dog is hardly an option, you have to be faster and survive long enough to have food buffs.

wich is the problem not everyone has viable stuns engineer needs immobilize but nope cant immobilize in the arena

also why cant we cc any of the npcs other than knogkdowns

Milennin.4825:

Sometimes some of the mines are invisible too until you literally stand on them.

this is true as well

or sometimes the game decides to Spawn you ontop of a mine

so i ve noticed this guy’s Ai is not only broken but his skills as well

sometimes he spams Teleport/Killshot over 4 times in a row

or his 3 round burst becomes a 3 killshot burst

or his killshot flat out “interrupted” player’s Evasion and kills em anyways

so far this is the cheapest npc i ve fought are the mines really necesary when he spams teleport ?

hell why not give him stealth too

how bout anet stops making everything 1 shot people

massive damage or condition stacks= acceptable

instant death = cheapness, why you may ask , simple when you have instant loss mechanics implemented they will not only punish players but also will have the chance of oh i dunno bugging and then giving unfair advantages to the npcs

i pretty much quit after facing this guy nd had him glitch on me or something i only have TWO dodges he shot 6 kill shots in a row how the hell does one dodge that

Junkpile.7439:

But, but, but i wanna use full berserker. It would be so unfair if thief would need toughness and vitality like other professions.

this guy/girl summarized thief mentality in a sentence and why they keep trying to justify their broken mechanics.

the game’s main issue so far is that the Time+effort vs reward is terribly bad

everything is unrewarding and most of the time punishing .