Guild Wars 2

no please, history has shown that people that went to t1 just complained after every loss when they were on lower tiers. The pve mindset is prevalent in this game, most of the strategists are gone, players need to be hand held till things get back in order.

it’s like bowling, first you need to teach the players to not throw the bowling balls at each other before you start organizing a competition.

a ton of unlearning needs to be done from years of really bad rules.

I may be in a lower tier wvw server, but it’s stress free and you always find a great fight without anyone complaining and there’s always a friendly player to chat with. No white knights or elitists….it’s really nice. I don’t mind giving up a few wins for the sake of good company.

having fun with nice people in a great game is my idea of a win, scoring big is just icing on that cake.

John lennon was singing about my server in “Imagine”

in all fairness, most of the lower tiers are the same – we have many exciting fights down here with people that are more concerned with having a great fight than winning the match – it’s not as bad as you think, – the strategy is different, but it’s just as intense having to go 3 v 1 to get back to your group for a balanced skirmish. winning is subjective. – no ques either, except maybe on reset!

this DOESN’T mean we don’t want to win, it just means we already won and having a fair chance at the top score would just be more fun. – something more to celebrate, break out the quaggan wine!!

a silly notion, that kills a big idea that generates big money, got it.

“lets kill the olympics because different countries should get along” lol

in old school role play, we were called mercs ( mercenaries ) we didn’t exactly have a side, just a lust for battle…so we “roamed” the games looking for action

“A mercenary¹ is a person who takes part in an armed conflict who is not a national or a party to the conflict and is “motivated to take part in the hostilities by the desire for private gain”.²³ In other words, a mercenary is a person who fights for personal gains of money or other recompense instead of fighting for the ideological interests of a country, "

so this means italy is racist because italians live there ?

the olympics is blasphemy then.

we just rename wvw to the pvp olympics!

there is nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage.

I am asuran, and I am quite proud of that!! -wiggles ears-

shall we have a friendly competition ? I’m not saying we are better than you, I’m just saying it will be apparent that we are the elite esporters once we are given a home.

there can only be 1

Asurans Rise!

yall sky-huggers may need to look down to see our pride btw!

it wont for long, a new charr character is only 1 empty character slot away – and maybe encourage anet to ease up on the grind so we can arm them up fast – the matches can change constantly due to organized competitions. – condi engineer charrs ..nuff said.

anet can easily buff up the racial skills to mean something in that setting.

not to mention, i’m sure it will give anet a lot more leverage in balancing matches.

and the server pride can go back to it’s rightful place, Role Playing in lions arch, this is where guilds in the same servers can discuss matches and what races to go into wvw with – so a wvw server will still mean something as well. a simple solution that fixes a ton of issues people have complained about.

i really think dividing wvw into races would work, because people do enjoy their characters and proud of how they customized them. So this approach simply redefines server pride and doesn’t completely eliminate it with a massive megaserver.. it would allow every one to be with whomever they want by being the same race or even compete as opposite races the next match up…. so not only does it fix balance and coverage issues, it works with game story, and creates opportunities for organized competitions. – plus it’s appealing to pvers who want to get serious about pvp.

and lets not forget the army of asurans – that alone is priceless!

i play solo, but i’d rather be called a roamer, because I join up with anyone anywhere so I’m never really solo. But many maps are empty and the show must go on! I’m kind of use to it now , and like everyone else here said, I’d like to visit some dungeons in solo instances – roamer would be better because then I can meet up with other solo guys and the dungeon or whatever scales. – we all kind of become friends / familiar after about 3 res’s….but i don’t know about anyone else, standing around and waiting for interested people to start, isn’t fun for me – especially when people get paranoid and want specific builds. i don’t like running with players that like playing it safe. you rarely if ever see a roamer rage quit, roamers, die, respawn, and run back, and when it’s not fun anymore, we log off and watch a movie or something – my kinda people.

i don’t know about anyone else, but all those announcements of who took what and when are distracting – i’d rather have a ping thing in a mini map option if possible, please. – glittery for spectators, strategy for competitors.

ladders that highlight individual contributions from guilds and players will bring them back.

Everyone wants to be recognized for their efforts. except me, I just like the cracking sound my weapons make when pwning the enemy.

“Don’t kitten into someones sandbox.”

I’m someone, and wvw is MY sandbox as well. I’d rather see your “majority” at a -75 percent disadvantage so I can solo you lol.

So please spare “US” the this is “YOUR” game view.

Either it’s good for “ALL” of us, or it’s just not good at all.

let’s not forget that the common “let’s join the biggest server” “Majority” view is what caused the imbalance problem to begin with.

possible blob fix -

when a commander throws up a tag, for every 20 people around him within a 2,000 foot radius, everyone gets -10 percent defense/offense penalty. or something along that line. If he meets an equal sized team – the match is balanced – if he meets a smaller team, the encounter is scaled :p – the penalty should stay for 15 minutes to prevent commanders from trying to get slick and turning off the tag before a kill. And capturing camps would be as hard as a level 50 fractal with high penalties. No more steamrolling.

the excuse would be a larger army costs more to maintain – so soldiers take a hit in armor quality :p

the math should amount to giving the smaller team a chance to kill off the larger zerg by simply being scaled – as more of the excess dies off, the power in the match rebalances itself ….so lets say it’s 20 vs 100, the 100 have -50% defense / offense, by the time the 20 kill off most of the big zerg, the remaining 20 are equally powerful as the opposing team – making it an even match.

would be funny if nothing else – swatting blobs down to size like flies lol

thats where i say that common ground would be ladders, each ladder ruled by criteria relevant to the competing group. wvw being the sandbox source of getting points relevant to your ladder of choice. You don’t just get ranked, you subscribe to the ladders relevant to you. if players were allowed to set that criteria for their ladder of choice, that would be great. Cue the guild sponsored ladders giving away specialized event prizes for special competitions. something about guild sponsored tournaments / ladders add to community spirit. Imagine doing a week long ladder, and 1st prize is a legendary given by top wvw guild, that means something, not only as a prize, but to be recognized by like minds.

“I thought I was The Bally table king
But I just handed my pinball crown to him.

Even on my favorite table
He can beat my best.
His disciples lead him in
And he just does the rest.
He’s got crazy flipper fingers
Never seen him fall…

That deaf, dumb and blind kid
Sure plays a mean pinball. "

ya, it makes the game “mine” in that sense. I was just thinking of the impact those ladders had in the arcade days ……the whole reason kids spent tons of money in pac man was to sign their name on the top players list. A pinball wizard would be meaningless without a top score!

how would you like to sign your achievements in guildwars 2 history ?

do you want to be on the best guild ladder, the best thief ladder, the most karma ladder ?

I personally would like to be on the best party crasher ladder lol – I love roaming and just jumping into random zergs and events – i’ve crashed many a parties and randomly follow good players or 2 – 3 man teams, guild groups, i have no idea what they are about to do, but their skills are evident and I just follow them to wherever , or at least try, some guys are great jumpers and hard to keep up with :p it’s especially fun to do in Dragon Stand – since its mostly empty, many hidden areas to find, and everyone is running around like they are being hunted. made empty ds maps fun for me actually. Try it! , next time you are in an empty ds map, if you see someone, just follow them, some will automatically team up with you, others will try to out run you….and others will teleport when you try to res them, and some will start following you back when you try to leave and it turns into a game of hide and seek lol

if i had to bring anything from that game earthempires to wvw, it would be the ladders. Those ladders kept that game alive and intense for 20 years….the game itself would be meaningless without it, and the ladder would be meaningless without a competitive spirit – the game creates a competitive spirit. wvw creates a competitive spirit, but has no ladders to make it meaningful. a population score is not meaningful unless you are in the biggest server. the "There can only be 1 " prize. Just like there can only be 1 #1 on the ladder – but the same can be said for all 100 slots. With so many ladders that give meaning to being the best guild, or the best fighter, or the best free-for-all player – there can only be 1 alot lol

thus end game is simply being number 1 in your preferred game mode. That’s why, in this paradigm of game flow, guildwars 2 has no meaningful endgame in any mode except maybe spvp.

ie – my guild beat x, – big deal so did everyone else – my guild beat x 50 times in under 3 minutes -shows ladder results – – wow!! – that moment of “wow” is what a pvpr considers shiny.

ooh, wait, do i hear Queen Jenna Calling ? use that as an excuse next time you run away from us like Logan Thackery does in battle.

sounds like wisdom from a human that constantly runs from battle! ^.^

yes, but it seems to work against them ….no matter what there will be one person with each hype train that will feel let down. So while it’s not completely true, the fact that there will always be a group complaining about something, is what confirms that picture of constantly dropping the ball. Something for the anet marketing guy to consider. You can’t really say that everyone will be happy in a world where some hate pve and some hate pvp. someone will always feel rejected, but now it’s having a massive effect because several communities feel rejected at the same time, and the bitterness from the most rejected has more influence over the mildly rejected..if that makes sense. suddenly your complaining doesn’t bother me as much because now I’m upset too.

i don’t dislike anet, i’m just trying to show what i see may be hurting them. if you have 100 friends and you insist you will spend a 1 on 1 day with each of them the next week….you are shooting yourself in the foot. It’s not possible to spend a full day with 100 people in a week 1 at a time. – the developers will never live up to the marketing hype.

that too!! lol

LA is home to the role players – that aspect of the game died with megaservers.

I’m thinking a place where people can have fun socializing would greatly help. Hence the disco, a modern twist on environment and roleplaying – people can have fun and socialize without having to talk much and just dance. Plus the music would be a nice twist for people who just want to stand around and chat – the GW music is awesome, but it’s still a loop of one or 2 songs.

Heck, find out if you can stream with an api from soundcloud, being there wont be any royalties attached to it. or even stream music videos from youtube. – or even a jukebox where people can buy something with gems and a portion of those gem purchases turn into money for licensing costs. Further the music licenses aren’t very expensive, especially since millions of people wont be in the disco at one time.

btw, the apparent loophole on youtube royalties would simply be that you aren’t charging admission to this “Disco” – so you technically aren’t making any revenues, and artists are being paid through youtube ads – just providing a different kind of webpage to view it on- no differen’t than a blog or facebook… – anyone who downloads the free game and enters the disco justifies this claim. – effectively making the gw lions arch disco just another free web browser that people can watch youtube on. – this way you can sell shop items the way a browser can sell plugins.

ouch, I love wp’s reviews – I have to say ….though I know he didn’t intend to focus on it…..the one thing that stands out is that anet keeps dropping the ball on their promises – almost anything that was hype “didn’t turn out that way” or “Changed their focus” “this was said 2 years ago” and unfortunately it seems to be branded on Anet now to the point that anything they announce now is considered a lie. I’m not saying thats the case, but as wp puts it, “hindsight is 20/20” and just about every form of hype put out by anet is now considered more smoke and mirrors than a dependable promise. simply put, the trust is gone and marketing will backfire with the wave of comments that point out these failed promises. It’s as if you can depend on anet to not live up to the hype now :x That’s not a good thing to trust

Tough spot to be in when the trust is gone from most of the community. that lack of trust will end gw faster than any bug or bad update because it becomes personal to any player whose preferred mode of playing was ignored.

I usually try to take a very zen casual approach – this is what i have where I am and when it’s not fun, i just don’t play. else i would have left long ago from everything i hoped for that never came to be.

a place where you stream lists of music from spotify
and the players skill bars turn into dance moves. – flashing disco-y lights n stuff – a slide – a bubble party, disco ball, blinking dance floor, strobe lights, lazers, smoke machine, ….confetti, a swimming pool in the courtyard, you can buy party horns and party favors

and a bar to buy drinks, with a dartboard and maybe a pool table.

a fun spot to have a 2nd life n stuff

and yes, of course a “Death at the Disco mission” and you get glow stick weapon skins as an achievement reward. maybe even a guitar hero / just dance meta event – where an npc does moves, and the players have to mimic him to win. last man dancing wins! ^.^

then you can sell all sorts of pineapple hats, and grass skirts / super high heel disco shoes, elton john sized glow in the dark glasses, new skill bar dance moves, and all kinds of disco wear at the shop.

if cartman from southpark were here, he’d say “That Kitten!!”

i’d even take this a step further, some guild missions should be able to be done solo so there can be guild ladders allowing guild members to have friendly competitions. (with fellow guild members )

smurfs, asurans do you hear that ? we give the sky huggers zolja’s beserker weapons and we get labeled smurfs. – i dunno, i think it’s time we cut the bigfoot down to size.

with all i said, I’ll share this one with the anet developers….

This text only based game is the child of a first generation game earth 2025 ,

“Earth: 2025 was one of the first Massively Multiplayer Online Browser Games (MMOBG’s) on the web. Built by Mehul Patel in 1996, it was closed down in December of 2009. Earth Empires is a project built by ex-Earth:2025 players to continue its legacy. Most players and alliances from Earth: 2025 migrated to Earth Empires when it opened less than a week after Earth: 2025 was officially closed. "

The original game was HUUUGE with 1st generation pvprs….apparently big enough to have kids, a functioning ladder, active forums and alliances today .

If you can understand what makes this game so intense, you understand what we want in wvw with graphics! – no…not the same mechanics or idea, nothing, just the ‘spirit’ that game creates ( created ? back then ) is immense – the game would continue when you logged off, and you can go from being a huge empire, to a parking lot while you sleep! lol ( a lot like wvw i suppose, since you can log into having no land at all heh )

http://www.earthempires.com/

this is one game i’m tempted to play again, except, I’m afraid of how much it might have changed over the years, and the fact that it can make you lose a lot of sleep lol. nothing but love for the original game, and I think i had to stop playing because my career was taking over.

maybe the anet developers should start a quick team and see how far they get up the ladder!! O.o

Post a score after you play to let us know if yall are really pvprs. :p

for extra credit – sign up as anet and rank #1 in the clan division!

and be warned, no shinies in there! and you can be sure that if you sign up as anet, some of the gw players will follow to make sure you don’t get to number 1, let alone the 1st gen pvp vets still in that game after we tell them what happened to wvw ^.^ so……the struggle is real in this scenario! Pvers will not like this at all, hard core strategists only

es what ? – ain’t nobody got time for that, besides, asurans are the most beautiful creatures to step into the mmo world. Fact. -struts ears-

seriously, look at me, I’m gorgeous – brad pitt looks like brad skritt next to me!!

lol….:D

I can envision all players repping their own races with much pride big time far more than what people are calling server pride now!! 100 charr fighting 100 norn fighting 100 asurans would surely be a sight to remember!!

I’m getting all emo now reminiscing my mmo history from another post… rofl :x

ps – don’t listen to the charr, they obviously don’t know what they are talking about

u know, i was just thinking, I can’t remember any mmo that i’ve left and wanted to go back to. usually when I leave, it’s for a reason I don’t easily forget. Except UO, not sure why i left, but somehow as much as I even liked the game, I never looked back. dunno how anyone else feels about it, but it makes me wonder that no matter what happens, many are not coming back and probably started new lives / new progressions elsewhere. It’s like moving away from your old neighborhood….once you move, that’s pretty much “old” stomping grounds.

oh wait, now i remember why i left uo, my wizards tower vanished when i couldn’t log on for a while and i just stopped playing completely. I left blizzard after they deleted my maxxed amazon and assassin. I was so upset at them, that wow couldn’t wow me if they sent me a million dollars. this was when they made that rule that if you didn’t log on for x amount of time your account got deleted. They were the icing on the cake in a harsh situation I was going through at that time. I remember being happy Mike O’brien left them and it was no doubt a big reason I latched on to gw.. I remember Mike being involved in some of my fav games, after my original stomping grounds closed down. – i remember him being accredited in the birth of esports actually- when it started with warcraft 1 – i really had high hopes being that i came from one of the first mmos that started pvp competitively – i thought pvp was just over, then came warcraft ( before world of warcraft turned it into bugs bunny lol )

not revealing name of first game, but i will say, it was so huuuuuge, that like 3 companies tried to recreate it and failed miserably, they understood the coding and rules but failed at understanding the spirit of the game they were trying to imitate. GW1 was the closest to getting it right at the time.

if anyone can make wvw work, Mike is without a doubt your man, BUT / PROVIDING, he goes back to his roots….before marketplaces and metrics. That factor has obviously made things……..different. I was there when things were amazing…no one can tell me different.

Jana.6831:

I know it’s very hard to take Ricky seriously.

why, because the size of my ears ? Don’t hate! i laid out a comprehensive plan to not only save your bookah games, but greatly improves it with GVG and a plethora of different ways to compete in a meaningful way so it wouldn’t get boring. But then what is a genius to expect from the lesser furry races that had over 3 years to move to different servers and fix the imbalance but would rather complain and shoot down brilliant solutions ? this is what i get for trying to reason with furballs!

hrmpf, yeah, i can see the asurans being an instant dominant force, the charr wouldn’t stand a chance, the rest of the races wouldn’t even matter :x which is why i originally suggested just an asuran server, so the rest of the races can team up and at the very least, almost win. it truly is lonely at the top. -sigh-

ps – your argument is flawed because GW isn’t just any other game, and it worked perfectly with fort aspenwood for many years, but then I’m an asuran, and I have to agree we’d be the dominant force giving credence to your argument.

“what if”

Hypothetically – wvw was broken up into races – I’m thinking this would open up doors for gvg in wvw – because different guilds can agree to a variety of matchups by simply logging on to different races. Something that can’t easily be done now without an all out guild transfer to a different server.

a special competitive mode can be made where all 3 guilds join up for competition – like old gw1 gvg challenge – and when they go into wvw, they enter the same map, a criteria could be set, such as – who captures sm first and puts their guild banner on it! – AND they come into the game with a special marker letting the whole map know they are doing competitive gvg…- further only competing guilds can throw up tags in those matches and when they enter a match, sm grays out – other players can partake in the competition and make things even more interesting! It wouldn’t be unfair either, because as races the matches would default to full or at least relatively balanced maps. – except maybe the last map with 50 asurans 1 norn, and 5 humans lol this would also highlight the guilds prowess to direct a whole server to victory, not just their own guild…this would also count in the score – guild wvw influence. A rockstar guild would control the blob du jour! Cue the top commander ladder and top wvw guilds ladder. there could be a variety of criteria as well, such as highest score, or who turns the entire map one color, or who ran the most karma for the event, you can even have clandestine events, where all 3 guilds are roaming thieve specialists and their competition is based on how many kills they get as roamers, no tag and none even know of a competition…. if you look at wvw as a pvp sandbox, then the possibilities are endless. The non competing players become part of the environment!

think about it for a moment, there would be a never ending story related to lore of what race holds the highest score, so the actual race scores would mean something, and since players can change races, they can arrange competitions. Plus it would encourage game related role play. – plus it would make the war more aesthetically entertaining as well as encourage server wide race strategies – asurans with their golems, humans with their healings, char with their flamethrowers, sylvari with their root/trapping specialties, it could be interesting strategies. I’m guessing this would also empower anet to balance the server numbers more effectively – since server pride is now about race, and not general population. Not exactly a mega-server, because you can organize competitions with it. Cheating / trolling wouldn’t be easy because unless you are in a match, or with a squad, you can’t control being in your gvg map. you can watch it though, wvw could now be watched in spectator mode depending on what matches are happening! Anet Official Mods can come in and referee important title matches ( basically to remove trolls ) – And is probably the best fitting resolution as the next level of gw1 HA and GVG. – fort aspenwood fights was all about lore, and it was fun! This would be a hybrid of HA, GVG, Fort Aspenwood and of course wvw.

and it would probably encourage a new race for the next expac so we can have 6 races in rotations of 1v1v1 – frog people maybe ? you get that tongue lash thing as a racial skill to make up for being ugly :x

-puts up tomato shield just in case-

maybe there should be a ladder system that people can elect to subscribe their character to the ladder of choice ? from there wvw would become a source of how they climb the ladder ?

this way you could even make a ladder of who made the most karma per match, or who killed the most people as a roamer, or even a duel 1v1 – or who capped the most camps, a ladder for every flavor of pvp and each person makes a choice of their favorite ladders. – at least those scores would have more meaning than server vs server.

and if none of the other suggestions work, can we at least have an asuran only server so we can look like this ? https://youtu.be/kkPfdh-XhWg?t=3m2s nothing would make me smile more than a blob of midgets.

ok, so we all agree that i’m thinking alot about this, and i’m posting excessively because gw2 is important to me, i don’t watch nor like television and faux news, i’d rather talk about mr drumpf and how it relates to tequatl’s walls with gamers

SO….

I’m thinking of wvw now as a pvp sandbox for this next post / blog/ rant

since players can’t agree on end game, naturally they go by pve rules and pick the safest plan for a win. this seems natural since most mmorpgs broke away from traditional mmorpg 1st generation and capitalized on the ‘loot’ factor and marketplace. in 1st generation mmorpg there were maybe 100 items you can find, maybe 3 were held by staff for competition wins – but loot wasn’t a focus. Having an adventure using different combinations of loot was. the birth of pve vs pvp builds and midget fights.

the next logical path is for anet to set up some examples of different ways to compete, so people can come up with better ways of making wvw interesting and competitive. So far some people love to pvdoor – but there isn’t a way of measuring which server can score higher at fighting doors… so this is disrespected by people who think they are the best solo roamers who know deep in their hearts they could just go kill anyone trying to pvd at will…so he’s the best in his preferred game mode, but that wouldn’t work against a 5 man team that isn’t bothering with him, because they are going to the other side of the map where no one is protecting to claim another property, and that wouldn’t work against a team that can blob the map at will.. and so on and so on, this wvw pvp sandbox is filled with so many ideas of what fun competitive pvp is …that it’s chaos. it’s everyone playing by their own rules and being proud their server did it.

anet needs to teach us a few ways to use it competitively and show a few examples of competitive rules. We need them to be teachers, and not just give us a deck of cards and say play…have fun, have a potato!!

School them anet, you were doing so great with gvg, hero’s ascent, fort aspenwood and pvp in gw1, we loved those rules!!……then you gave us a pvp / wvw sandbox in gw2 and we forgot the rules!

There can be only 1!

end game.

here’s another example i just came up with -

how do you make tequatl competitive – rules

you take 2 maps, tell them that anyone who dies, stays dead. at the end of the match you agree to count how many stayed alive vs tequatl and the damage he took, then compare, the team with the least deaths and most damage wins.

how do you make tequatl pve – rules

when you die, just res and come back. we arent keeping score, we just want to kill tequatl and get the loot.

on the wargaming, it’s all about the rules – we don’t have to follow rules from the civil war, just rules that establish ‘fair’ competition.

The rule of joining the most popular server is not fair competition. This rule was discovered by the players because it was not governed by gw2.

" nobody told me I couldn’t bring a few extra aces from another deck of cards to a poker competition, so it’s fair, Sever Pride!!!! " – no..just no.

yes, i can’t argue with that.

But then if we sat down at a table with a deck of cards, and I gave 15 people a random set of cards and told them , do whatever you want, that would not be poker. It could be classified as playing cards though.

the idea of this thread – is to discuss the esports factor of pvp – not just open world pvp – the hardcore players left because they want esports structure , and anet wants esports.

to harp on ‘breaking away from traditional design’ is not addressing this point.
Rules are rules. you want competition, you need competitive rules. Pve is not competitive rules. If anything pve rules are designed to keep things fun. Fun is not necessarily competitive. Pillow fights are fun, not putting rocks in the pillow case is a rule designed to keep pillow fighting fun, pillow fighting is not a competitive sport. now if you allowed each person to put exactly 5lbs of rocks in their pillow cases, it will become competitive and last man standing wins.

yes, agreed, i know many of them, but this is also why most mmorpgs are not esport worthy, it’s not because they can’t , but they arent applying the correct rules for strategic war gaming.

Dota and lol are following strategic rules. Random is how you use the share of assets given you for that game, thus the need for balancing, so each team can have unique assets that amount to the same damage capacity aloted per team.

honestly, i don’t think anet would delete an intelligent argument, there’s a difference between discussing a topic intelligently and passionately….and just being loud. – same difference as strategic wargaming vs whack a mole – whack a mole posts get deleted lol

ouch, so many incorrect perceptions to your post…@skyshroud

it’s one thing to defy traditional design, it’s quite another trying to make a square wheel.

open world pvp – is simply an open world where people can fight each other. That does not make a game competitive, structure does.

when people complain about mobs, is because there is no systematic way for a smaller server to counter them. There are no rules to balancing the fight, such as a homefield advantage. Bragging rights would be using those rules to have a smaller server conquer a bigger one. But there is no brain over brawn strategy to win wvw.

and if pve fire creates a scoring imbalance on the field, it will just be a visual prop to fulfill the rpg aspect of digital gaming. So that comment is incorrect. it’s known in wargaming that some things have to be fictitiously adapted – because it’s still a game. That’s why we don’t drown in GW after spending hours underwater without an air tank. In real life, People don’t shoot lazers out of greatswords like a mesmer, you won’t get cut and in need of stitches if you run into a tree – so things will get adapted, and your character doesn’t risk being fried by a torch hanging on the wall in a tower.

Wargaming, is exactly that ….making a game out of war. Nothing more, nothing less.

the problem is open world pvp without rules is the equivalent of a riot, and I don’t mean an lol riot, I mean senseless fighting, anything goes, and you don’t score it. Nothing intelligent about destroying everything in your path.

to say wargaming has no part of esports is to wonder why I’m even debating ? lol

I’ve not only lived this and watched it evolve first hand, I’ve played in some of the first player organized online tournaments…those tournies would have never happened without rules, because the game didn’t have any structured rules…it was pure open world pvp. but there are game design articles on the topic that specifically discuss this as well. It’s not a new concept.

it’s the design specifically for strategic game play. intelligent pvp, not just whack a mole.

what can i say, i love gw2 that much that i’m willing to go out on a limb :p

I came, I saw, I posted!

i know a pvpr when i see one! lol

my point in all this, is not to change the game, but if anet understood what I’m saying, they will know how to keep everyone happy in whatever game mode. The circle of life.
were born, we level, we die …thanks to computers, we are born again – repeat. there is no end game, there’s just a starting point.

nooo, there can only be 1. that spot is not for “everybody”

everyone deserves to have fun how they want. but in end game….there can only be 1

the guy thats mastered every mode, including a death match(es)

being that extreme is absolutely not for everyone, else there can be hundreds…no…there can be only 1. That’s what makes end game legendary. but there really is no end game because if you die, you start from square one, and these days you get an expac to go with it.

or everyone is thinking too little, because wvw is still in bad shape 4 years after release :p

yes, but that style of game is fun for you, some people like pvd – it’s still a game and people should have fun

so it sounds like you take your game mode serious, i’d love to see a match between you and a like mind …

I play any mode, hard core……I decided to give fractals a try today just to see what all the hub bub was about and i went for it, i beat level 1 …solo. I wasn’t sure what to do so i was winging it. lol

being great at pve, the faster you level and get your gear, the faster you can pvp! – and that plays a big part in that final death match, you don’t want to lose your character then take months to make a new one…that’s like salt on the wound embarassing after a death match… i’ll admit, i never walked into one. I was actually doing what you like doing, team play lol – the next step after team play is 1v1 – that’s grand masters levels in title fights.

this is the true end game to mmorpgs.

whether you like it or not, that’s how it is.

respectfully speaking, i know a girl that can knit a sweater better than you…and that means something to her.

So when you say “better” thats subjective to your preferred game mode.

The fact is, in true end game, there can only be 1.

kittens are in the eye of the beholder!

well no, wvw should be when it first crosses over to full pvp – then spvp would be the natural progression of funneling down the best from wvw to play competitively for title matches. for reference sake, lets label eotm – boot camp. lol

eotm should not be connected to all out pvp – it should be a nice place for people to get use to fighting other people, yet in a familiar zone that has pve elements they are use to.

remember, I’m looking at this as a progression to what “I” call end game.

In my historically based paradigm of game flow –
The absolute end-game in mmorpgs, is a death match. thats when the loser becomes born again, has to do pve to get new gear for a new character and does the full circle of gaming.

this is the fight where the final 2 absolute best pvprs play for keeps, loser character literally dies, it loses everything and becomes born again, winner lives to fight future death matches and become a demi-god legend – feared, respected and well known to the entire pvp community. Not just another joe. A player of this calibre, is well known in the industry because they have so many fans by then. It’s like the player becomes a brand at that point – at least by today’s standards. he gets youtube views, possibly endorsements, so it is worth money to a pro that takes it serious. – thats when you start to see those corny kitten hollywood movies talking about the life of the greatest pvpr that ever lived. all hype, all of it…thats what made it esports, the hype among friends that like to talk kittens. the fans it generates though, is real money.

well no, it’s ok to have some middle ground for pvers to get familiar with pvp

as I mentioned many posts ago, technically pve is a training ground for pvp – pvp is end game …end game as in no more monsters to fight because you’ve beat them all.

I’m talking old school rules here, back when expansions didn’t happen often, but then back then pvp was awesome because exactly that, the regular pve game got boring and we had to improvise to keep things interesting – and they did ….

But today, with expansions, there is no real end of pve game since monsters get more diverse and harder – so this bends the perception some.

In its roots though, the natural order is – train your character so you can learn the game, get your gear, by then you know all the moves for pvp – after that , it’s a matter of doing personal style fighting …and that never gets old.

but again, since expansions to mmos became common place, obviously that paradigm of game flow has changed. – but unfortunately it seems to have dampened the progression of pvp – because now esports are mostly games dedicated to pvp – and instead of a pve mode, they use a tutorial.

There is no user motivation to be creative with pvp / ladders/ rules / guild created events / tournaments. either the gaming company gets it right, or there are choices of other games that got it right, no need to “make your own rules” to make it right. Back then there weren’t many choices, either you improvised or stopped playing. MMO’s were still new back then so the big deal was being online with friends…period. We made it happen. Now people being online to play a game together is not magical anymore, it’s expected. Cuba is in that magical phase now, because they just got wifi, they are just starting to learn to ignore each other for their smart phones lol

not only that but now you have companies saying “no, don’t make your own rules, your killing ‘my’ game mode” so that doesn’t help. – not mentioning names.

arenanet has an amazing game here, I just think they need to go back to the roots of mmorpgs, and update it the right way to continue what made online gaming a sensation – without losing what motivated people to make the game great …the game doesn’t make the people great, it’s the people that make the game great. think about cards. there’s nothing great about a deck of cards, the magic is in the players imagination. you spark it, we play it.

the more i think about it, the less i like the mega server idea – ( despite how much i suggested it at first )

It’s still not a good solution because the wvw score would still be meaningless.
It would mean more to beat the servers that host your biggest adversary guilds.

A megaserver is just a placebo to a greater problem in wvw – the score is meaningless, it will still be just as meaningless if random people were slapped together to fight. fun, but meaningless, it does nothing for the bigger picture of being appealing to the hardcore pvp community. it will balance the numbers, but not in a meaningful way.

hows this, handball is pvp – the wall is pve – if you hit the ball against the wall alone for practice, this is pve ……if you play vs someone else, the wall is part of a pvp environment – they can use the wall against you, as much as you can use the wall against them.

You don’t stop a competition and force both guys to hit the ball against the wall alone, as part of the match. that’s what the pve in wvw is doing. even worse, its making one person play against 4 people and scoring it!! it was funny when it was first done, but it’s not funny anymore and now we can’t hold a real competition because of it.

and no the solution is not handing out free water, or building an amusement park on the handball court.

if you want to try something innovative in wvw that pvprs would enjoy, try something like making a new property that has to be fought 1 v 1 for it. 1 player enters the ring to claim the area, another player from another server fights him for it. Not all the properties, just 1 – this will be an answer to the random duels you see in wvw – and make a bigger statement about which server has the best pvprs than a server vs server score.

you can even make another property like the old gvg maps or even the old hero’s ascension maps, where this property is full when 5 – 10 people join per side to fight for rights to that property. – this also would render population size moot because only 10 people per server can fight at a time – but for just that property. – those property claims now become matches that are better fit to create a server score worth respecting. You can have as big a server as you want, but only 10v10v10 or 5v5v5, or 1v1 people at a time can fight a match to claim the assigned property. the regular wvw can remain the same because it’s just good old fashioned mud slinging – it’s more for laughs now though – which is a good thing in pvp – everyone loves a good bar fight!

another property fight can mimick the fort aspenwood fights – those were a hoot, a simple fight that starts when the que is full. suddenly a small server might be fort aspenwood specialists – and what use to be a tier 1 population server can lose because none of the other fights they are good at are active….no property claim!

tbh, this is what i originally expected when we jumped from gw1 to gw2 wayyyy before hot.