Guild Wars 2

“Naturally, there are pvp and wvw only players. These players are in a minority, though. Why?”

Fact, because a bulk of them left a loooong time ago.

PVPrs make their minds up quick, they played for a few months, loved the mechanics laughed at the scoring and imbalance of the game and left to another game they could seriously compete with – spvp has been a work in progress since gw2 started, they didn’t like it then and they don’t like it now. and it’s not because spvp or wvw is bad,…..it’s because winning an spvp or wvw match is nothing to brag about.

pvprs are not about loot and shinies, they are about bragging rights. The current wvw scoring system is a placebo for pvers that like to pvp too.

nah, that doesn’t work, it’s wishful thinking. You have to be aggressive with the looking for group panel and taxing people to an active map, and getting people to tag up. It happens, though, it’s just not often, and more often than not i get booted out of maps that are organized in lfg panel because they fill up quick.

when I’m in DS, i’m not always there for meta, sometimes I’m just adventuring and looking for pods and masteries, fact remains that some areas are shut out unless there is an event. I don’t want to have to go through the drama of getting into a big event just to explore.

this may be a good thing, considering gw1 did after all start in Mike Obrien’s apartment with a small team…, and i’m sure running the company took him away from a lot of hands on time with the game itself – especially when you are knee deep in administration stuff.

this may be what gw2 needed to get back on track

ok, since all practical ways of balancing a match by moving bodies around or mega-server are generally disliked as a solution.

Let’s talk about how your efforts, your guild efforts, your team work gets recognized in wvw.

How about instead of a server vs server score, we rank players, guilds, Tag leaders, based on achievements per match. Take the focus off of the score of population, and place it on contribution.

is there any way that the scoring can be addressed where server population becomes irrelevant ?

ok, i can appreciate that actually – because I do feel loyal to my server – my server pride is because my server never quits though, not because they always win…..I’m guaranteed a high impact adventure in wvw – because win or lose, they just don’t quit. I’d have to give that up for a mega server, so it’s not like I’m happy about that option either, more like it seems the only way to balance fights.

we seriously need to discuss solutions for a balanced fight before anet makes their mind up for us. The most reasonable is to have guilds balance out the servers, but that’s obviously not going to happen, and no incentive is large enough to make em budge. We need a different way of scoring that is respectable to a hard core pvp community. That is the heart of the issue, the crux!!!

This score is a joke. and if i say remove it, i’m quite sure people will hate that too.
The fix is needed more in how players perceive wvw than the code or maps and a score we can all respect. The wvw score is not respectable to the hardcore pvp community.

hard core pvprs are all about bragging rights, and a wvw score at the moment is nothing to brag about!!

and why is linkin park starting to sound like the beastie boys, why, WHY!?! first wvw, now this! ugh! -smh-

i’m sure the hardcore players could easily come back if anet set the right stage for them.

keep wvw away from pve – it’s really that simple….make it balanced and anything on those maps should be for fighting or defending vs opponents – anything else is a distraction from player vs player.

Anet does have the advantage of buy it once, it’s yours forever…so if wvw suddenly decided to be all pvp rules – people don’t have to re-buy.

It’s obvious that one person is pushing a personal vision of where they want pve – and I would hope the “hardcore Pvp / developers” would speak up for us vs the person(s) that are forcing an unpopular idea. I refuse to believe that all the developers who claim to be hardcore pvp aren’t aware of the obvious issues….what I believe is that they are trying to make one person happy who doesn’t get it and insists on forcing certain issues for corporate reasons…

we just want wvw maps and their borders to follow the same pvp only rules found in spvp.

give the new borderlands and the edge of the mists to the pve-pvprs. and wvw to the hardcore pvprs. spvp isn’t enough for a hardcore pvp community, and obviously wvw appeals to the hardcore pvp community. You are shooting your esports goal in the foot otherwise. spvp is a very very tiny area of the game….it should funnel down the best fighters wvw has to offer. server pride is a fantasy held by pvers that want a safe fight …-the hand-

i agree, I’d say 19 out of 20 times i enter DS it’s empty, and I get these spam messages about how the dragon is going to shut down the map when I’m exploring an area that I just got to….

I play solo most of the time, and I’m just looking for masteries …..some of the areas are blocked until the meta event is completed ….so that’s as casual unfriendly as it gets, especially with maps that are empty where you simply can’t trigger anything without a minimum number of players.

BTW – a minion necro with viper’s stats is king of the jungle in DS, I was taking on 4-5 npcs at a time with it without breaking a sweat, I was solo roaming like a boss, to a point that it seemed like some npcs would avoid me lol….heck, i wish i could trigger an event solo to open some areas…..Highly recommended if you want to roam without constantly having to hide. – i think i died once because i got a little too brave and took on a fairly large mob lol

focus on a build where minions raise your toughness and each hit heals you for a small amount, the amount of hits you get with a big minion adds up to major healing, major toughness, and lots of distractions to keep the npcs off of you while you do major damage from 1200 feet away – which also helps revive you when you are downed. makes a big difference in ds. = do it as a reaper….the reaper mode alone can take on npcs with ease in ds = you can even solo some ( not all because of the timers ) but you can definitely solo a few champs with the build. my fav pve build of the moment, rev sword/axe/hammer assassin dwarf berserker being my current fav pvp build. (actually good in pve too, but not as deadly as the reaper )

not saying they are the best builds, but they are a ton of fun to play. Made hot worth it for me :p ( make sure you have at least ascended weapons, i’m still using mostly exotics though in necro, leaning more to vipers – black diamonds can get expensive so i have mixed stats – mostly vipers though , the magic in the build is vipers, lots of minions and yassith ascended weapons – zoljas for pvp )

that map fails because it’s more pve than pvp…not because of the megaserver.

this notion of balancing the wvw fights is impossible and unreasonable otherwise.

No body will budge from their servers, and you don’t want anet to balance the numbers…

Then lets go to the next possible solution – scaling stats …..if the odds are 2 to 1 – then my damage should double the power to keep things fair.

Please , part of the solution to wvw is the actual players …….otherwise , you are just wasting our time with this “fix it to my servers advantage” thinking. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

the only thing i get from responses like this are that yall are pvers afraid of a fair match vs real pvprs.

imo, this thread is a good example of why wvw needs to be mega-servered.

the pride should be in how well a guild performs, the elephant in the room on this thread is the matches are imbalanced yet people still take the score serious…to the extent of asking others to avoid playing at certain hours. seriously ? that’s a pve mindset, a pvp mindset would focus on the biggest guilds in opposing servers and take them down 1 by 1 to show them how irrelevant the score is.

I love my server in this scenario, no matter how good or bad the odds are, they fight with everything they have. we always end up higher than our tier can handle, so we are usually outnumbered in our matches, but everyone seems to enjoy that lol!! – if we had the numbers, we’d rule the ladder. Our whole server acts like one large pug guild…amazes me sometimes to watch them at work. these days you don’t see as many tags go up, but there’s always spontaneous action in a very cell structured way. it’s like everyone is a solo roamer, then suddenly they become a zerg at random, then go roamers again…never a dull moment in darkhaven – land of the casual yet fiercely hardcore mercenaries!

does a ton of spike damage, healing can be a challenge with a power spike / zerker build. Timing is essential with it, else you will find yourself low on heals waiting for next power spike skill to recharge – it’s kind of like pulses of burst damage, you have to know when to back off and jump in. it’s a bit more technical than most classes because the skills are so tightly knit ..and each skill has it’s purpose and proper time of use….so using skills in their proper sequence matters …. It can also play a strong team supportive role as a herald . like any class, it needs a certain play style to make the most of it. – powerful in the right hands.

ya it would lol…..a hard core pvpr’s paradise, big brownie points bragging rights for being the last man standing! that’s the stuff you tell your grandkids about lol!! – but in a populated server, you need allies because last man standing ain’t gonna fly vs 3k people – leave that thought on netflix! lol

on the planning and scope, it’s not that hard if the guilds organized their own competitions and made it a gvg thing…..each guild would adopt a server so to speak, call it their own, and compete – keeping a record of their wins / losses for a ladder….

that point is moot now though because the best wvw guilds left years ago. They were actually doing it at one point, as I remember random servers dominating the ladder …then suddenly when they left the server ….it dropped to like below tier 3. – but there were only like one or 2 that did it.

and yeah, the ffa idea wouldn’t work in gw – wvw for reasons I haven’t even mentioned. But none the less i thought it a good way to see what the community perception of ffa pvp in wvw would be. – the general concensus seems to be more a pve approach to pvp – which is a predictable / controllable outcome for a win, …….a more hard core pvp approach is a need for a bigger challenge. The bigger the challenge the more the bragging rights.

Eve works like that too right ? gw has some of the Eve community, my guess is they’d be the first to go for the godfathers of wvw spot, being that eve is pretty much that ffa -rule by politics style.

it’s just a thought experiment – mainly to see where everyones head is at when they think pvp…. I’m quite sure there are plenty of technical reasons why it can’t happen….but what fascinates me is that the community can easily fix the imbalance but that just wont happen…they simply won’t work together to balance the servers …..how would that mindset translate in a ffa environment lol

like an all out pvp’r would love a chance at building political relations and organizing with other guilds – maybe even creating transactions with gold to control farming in certain areas of the map….and a pver would hate the idea because there is no clear cut mechanical path to success!

I’ve been in an environment like that – i ended up being a mercenary – loyal to only a very small elite team. i was friendly with every one though, but when it came to competition ..i only ran with a select few.

in wvw that would translate to my guild doing the capping, but then working politically with other guilds to get them to protect the places we cap so they can farm the areas for rare mats. Of course we’d have to torment non guild members the first few games for them to appreciate the opportunity to guard our lands. ^.^ yes, a gray area lol.

I’m contemplating how easy it is to fix the “Imbalance” of wvw by people simply moving to different servers and balancing the game out manually…..
it made me wonder how the general wvw public would react if wvw went free for all …
basically the only people you can’t shoot would be people in your squad.

my gut instinct is everyone would hate the idea, because the risk factor just got immense, and there really isn’t a sure way to win….

But on the same hand, I don’t want to stereotype a “Typical Gw1/2 PVPrs” response, i’d rather hear it from you why this is or is not a good idea.

Is it just an invitation to get trolled and pk’d , or is it an opportunity to let the strongest survive, you and your guild would be wvw’s biggest threat and will run things with an iron fist and only a handful of people get to be real godfathers in wvw ? lol

I find the thought of guilds trying to maintain a peace treaty in such an environment amusing tbh.

the most ironic part of the thing that needs most fixing in wvw, is that it can be instantly addressed by players with simply moving to servers and balancing them out / spreading out the population……but nooOOoo, the “Top” pros went to the most populated servers and blamed the imbalance on anet. lol

Humans! -smh-

“No Fair, They Let me Cheat!!!”

u guys may want to stay away from a deck of cards, to avoid paper cuts, trump loves you though. :p

want to see wvw become super popular again ?

real simple , just make a “legendary Paparazzi skin” based on wvw / pvp achievements.

each thousand kills adds a new quaggan to your fan club that follow you around town.
the first 1k – you get a fan that follows you around saying “Hercules Hercules!”
next 3k – girl quaggans start following you around
at 5k – cameras start randomly flashing
at 100k – you get a film crew and at random times while you play, you can see some fan from behind a tree or on a mountain taking photos of you.

and so on….

well to be fair, fun is subjective

to some fun is beating the dragon and getting items for it….
to others who’ve been there, done that and have the t-shirt, it’s playing against other players who have beat the dragon too.

this is why the sum of pve feedback will always be “Been there, done that, whats next”, and their torment is grind, their pleasure is flaunting a new skin around town.

and the sum of pvp feedback will be – “Hey no fair, he has more _ than me!!” and their torment is getting beaten up in a pvp match, their pleasure is having all the quaggans ask for autographs.

no different than real life i suppose, some get the attention with money, other get the attention with muscle. same kittens different mode, they both want the quaggans to look at them in awe lol

then i shouldn’t talk about how i was soloing champs with my yassith’s spire ? but then it wouldn’t be fair because my build was brilliant. so I digress, point taken.

which i found btw, that the necro is a most excellent pve character – i hear it’s great for pvp too now, i haven’t tried that part yet. my pve build wouldn’t fly in pvp though so…

got it, I have nothing for or against the place as I’ve never really visited it, i just noticed it on random searches i’ve done looking for strategy info.

it only seems proper that for the sake of peace – which in a pvp world translates to respect, it should be a completely new site run by a neutral party. Just like wvw, the forum has to be balanced in that it favors no side, yet favors both sides getting a fair chance to talk.

which btw, this is the concept i’m always talking about good vs evil in alignment, that place sounds like a fun evil forum to be honest!!! but i digress…….it should be a neutral forum that is neither about forcing everyone to get along via tos, nor having an army of white (or Dark) knights pouncing over anyone that doesn’t agree with them. either extreme is just evil under a different name, thus the natural need for something neutral, Someone that enjoys partying on both sides of that fence and non judgemental, they just want to focus on the facts and arrange the fights between those who need a fight to settle their disputes. ( note the rpg element of settling disputes ) and I’m not trying to imply me, no thank you, I enjoy being an irrelevant in the crowd…but i also have been a part of what works great..so i’m just sharing what i’ve seen.

It needs to be a grey area :p

now ..example of an evil forum… no one shares jack, full of accusations, everyone’s full of jokes, conspiracies, troll talk

example of a goodie forum, encouraging, sharing builds and tactics, planning practice events.

example of a neutral forum, take the best of all sides and arrange a fight. less talk, more action, i got gems to make!

organized chaos…letting it be while channeling it to high profile matches.

the end of that story is evil always loses, even when they win they always lose something that meant a lot to them.

every pvp type forum will have a ghetto….

It works like this, a person talks a ton of kitten to a pro, the pro beats the living daylights out of him in a match – being that the trash talk was big news …. the trash talker couldn’t back his talk up and has to calm down because he lost credibility and now the whole community is telling him to shut up because he lost lol. That’s how the dust settles, especially if the top fighter is the nicest person in the world…and they usually are.

then there are the hackers, who have been a part of the mmo gaming culture since mmo came online. That’s where Anet becomes like the feds and watches quietly trying to catch them….. The hackers game is “Prove it” ….but it is a ladder all its own of who got away with the most, unfortunately. You have to embrace that aspect of it as an underground ladder because you simply can’t fight it head on. You wouldn’t want to be a part of a society that could stop them dead in their tracks anyways – but that’s another discussion. :p

awesome, it should be promoted more then. I’ve heard of it before, but i’ve never known any place as an official pvp meet up. it should be clear enough that if some gaming news magazine comes here for the first time, they know where to go. In that sense it should be official and not mistaken for just another gw2 fan site covering pvp.

and it shouldn’t, the pvprs think different than pvers…..

when a pvpr fights, it’s related to a match….when a pver fights, its related to the game. it’s just a different headset that doesn’t mix.

It should be kept away from the main gw2 site, but kept semi-official for pvp related stuff. I understand both sides, some of my best friends I’ve met online, i met through fighting lol

it should be official enough to know this is the place to go to for the latest pvp info, but unofficial enough to not be governed by standard gw2 tos held on the main site.

a good pvp forum, is crucial to a good pvp game / environment. It’s in the forum, that all that banter increases the value of a prize fight. Its the infamous “Stare down” moment before any top shelf fight. its in those forums that pcgamer, forbes, and cnn will get the latest news to the biggest fights. Basically a hype machine.

ps – in the future, you may want an off site forum dedicated to wvwrs …..this forum is way too strict to let that aspect grow. Ever since i can remember, trash talk and flame posts have been a part of competitive guild pvp – when the dust settles, it turns into some serious rpg – stronger than the pve areas. Anet pretty much squelched that part with the tos on the main site, which is understandable….as a rowdy pvp crew scares pvers away…which is not good for business..

But stopping pvprs from fighting – in game or on forum….is counter productive …we fight ..that’s what we do …and we do eventually work it out…I’ve seen it happen time and time again…..some of the strongest communities I’ve been a part of, had the most intense fights I’ve ever seen on the net lol…..it’s just part of the culture and you shouldn’t stop it, just keep it out of your backyard lol. :p

the staffers in the more popular games of yester year I was with, would simply only jump in on things like personal threats, and hacking…..they kept out of the trash talk fights….in fact some of them made alts so they could join in the bantering lol!!

There was a time where being accused of being a hacker was an honor , especially if you weren’t hacking…legend has it that good trash talk adds +5 power to your weapons :p

i hope they aren’t over thinking it. While i’m sure some of the solution require a lot of behind the scenes technical wizardy. It would seem that most of what made wvw great, is still there because people are in fact holding on. I’m in a low pop server, but every reset there is that moment of que.

I’m sticking to my guns to say that a majority of the issues that rub players wrong has to do with pve rules being used in a pvp area.

I really believe that if they took a perspective of wvw being a training ground that progresses to competitive 1v1 – 5v5 – gvg – matches, it would go a long way.

but this is just wvw – the new borderlands, the mists and the pvp jumping puzzle, should be left for people who want pvp-lite or pve flavored pvp…

but when it crosses over to wvw, it should be more spvp – where the rules become pvp-pro ( considering this is now entering a stage where you train for paid competitions )

The underlying appeal I find that connect spvp and wvw is simply the ability to test builds and strategies on an all pvp game board.

the levels / grades of pvp seem to be more in a gray area in gw2, than it was in gw1….where it was pretty black and white. Back then it was clear cut with a straight up pvp only character…which i use to dub my playclothes!! lol

I also remember how difficult pve was for me in gw1 – in that my account progression was based on 1 main character…my warrior ….that actually burned me out …so much that the warrior in gw2 is my least favorite character – not that the warrior is bad, but the play style was written in stone if i wanted to progress any achievements. I find that aspect of the game crossing over in gw2 wvw ….because I can only afford to make one character all ascended…and even then, I had to slow that down to spend game resources on getting ascended trinkets and weapons for my other characters, so i wouldn’t pigeon hole myself into only using my main character for wvw / pvp.

The point being, it’s the rules that are a bit muddy, that is making building one main character for wvw a focus ….and ultimately causing a burn out ..for me at least ..considering that making one character all ascended costs so much time and resources. I basically lost my past time of testing builds….I don’t like playing in spvp to test builds – i simply don’t enjoy those maps and it feels more like twitch gaming than strategic pvp.

ie – in the old spvp arena, one of my favorite builds was not a power build, but one where I would lure warriors to my spite necro and wear them down with confusion type spells with condition drains …was funny to watch warrior type builds attack me till they died from self inflicted damage. That simply doesn’t exist in gw2 spvp – the elements are there, but not as entertaining as it was in gw1.

the point is …don’t over produce wvw …many elements are there but the logistics prevent us from experimenting with different play styles simply because of the cost of testing builds and the unbalanced matches.

i had a nightmare last night, i was dreaming that pewdiepie and his fans were given their own wvw server called resurgence :x -breaks out into a cold sweat and shudders-

they were scaling towers with zergs like in the movie world war z – all in blue quality gear. -.-

but that would amount to grinding for stats, imo good pvp starts with evenly matched players , and it’s the players skill and strategies that compete and win, not their gear.

i’d rather we get all our gear with blank stats that we set for wvw, and the chests have skins or something, and if anything, rewards should reflect your achievements in wvw so it means something in non wvw areas. like if i kill 1k players, my character gets a tear tatoo lol

i really would rather spend more time testing builds and strategies, than grinding for best stats. If anything grinding for stats, makes testing a variety of builds a burden, in storage cost and grind. it would also be a nice plus to win pve stuff for our pve characters, i’m not against that …but not ‘winning’ stats for pvp. thats something that gw1 had and was great, that gw2 shouldn’t have dumped. the gw1 pvp armor system was awesome.

the revenant is pretty awesome for pvp though, so are the new specializations. so that aspect is def a +1

imo it depends how you look at it -

after all the bad reviews, and the announcement of gliding coming to tyria, i set my expectations low, and was pleasantly surprised with all the new elements – such as new viper stats which are great for making new pvp type builds, creating new characters and gliding them across tyria is fun, it gives a new feel to the old areas, the multi-level style in hot is intuitive and fun to explore…can get annoying though in areas that getting from point a to point b a multi level maze – like when you are looking for mastery insights and have to travel 4 levels of back and forth in what looks like 2 feet away in an overhead map. that map will test your patience when doing it solo lol.

BUT if you buy it with expectations – it’s disappointing, for example, the new area npcs are insanely deadly, plus lots of mini-events, and this would be fun if there were more people, but since there maps are mostly empty – it leaves you soloing some really hard content, and the new items require a ton of grind, further if you make it a point to get the new specializations on all your characters – it get’s redundant fast and the maps start to feel smaller

so i’ve experienced both sides of this coin, loved the new additions, but got that feeling of been there done that pretty quick, and the maps are pretty empty to do new harder metas like dragon stand. plus they adopted a new policy of “you have to do this this and this, even if you don’t like playing that stuff to get something we know you need and want” – so that can burn you out quick.

Overall, i wont complain because first i came with low expectations, and i am enjoying the revenant and new specializations – definitely opens new possibilities for pvp / wvw / team play

but it brings me back to ….oh wait, wvw is kinda empty and the fights are still unbalanced.

if you love the art, exploring new areas and building your character, you will love it more than dislike it, but beyond that you might dislike it more than you like it lol

hrmm, hows this? a wvw only mini based on rank. ^.^

if you see someone in wvw or lions arch with a 5 star general’s mini, you want to be in their guild if you are into wvw or pvp.

and if you want everyone to drool over it, just make it taller than players lol

imo, the best item any pvpr / wvwr can have is a necklace made of ears of all the people he took out in battle.

I’d rather walk through town with a necklace that has 500 names on it than a legendary,
that would mean more to me than something shiny i can buy from the market lol

i agree.

Gw 2 needs to run like a government, the pvers are civilians, and pvprs are military!
church is to pve rules as state is to pvp rules ….it needs separation.
Military grade items do not belong in civilian areas.

the pvers can keep the pvp jumping puzzle – it’s good for training cadets :p

Grim West.3194:

ANET is dying. They aren’t the same company that use to honor the player, now they are all about selling outfits, wings and other useless junk for gems.

WvW will never be good again because ANET has lost their soul. You can thank Mike O’Brien for that.

Honestly, i have to believe in Anet, the foundation of this game is just too immense to suddenly lose faith in them. The question is do they believe in me.

I do believe they followed bad advice, and although i may sound harsh sometimes on the forum, i do care about their work and efforts to entertain us.

I believe in you anet, you made a great game.

The rules are very debateable, and so is the metrics approach. we are alive, living, and here to talk to you and help you, don’t be that person that texts other people while walking with us and ignoring us! lol :p

Let’s work this out, mano a mano and make this game legendary.

well i sure hope you are not one of the developers, because if so, it would explain why the game isn’t doing as well as it use to.

you obviously don’t know your own game, but you are entitled to believe so.

yep, i agree with all the above, but even beyond that, wvw is a great lab type environment for testing new builds in a fun way. wvw should be the precursor to spvp, this can also shown by all the people that like to 1v1 in wvw – it’s the same crowd but spvp is just a boxing ring, and wvw is a training camp.

and this is on topic, because in a sense wvw is casual pvp. hot join any big strategic fight. that is casual, no timers, no events , just a hot join when i get home from a long day of work or school or whatever… and have only 1 hr to play.

hardcore to me means lots of planning, waiting, organizing, casual to me means i have 1 hour to play and i want to play hard. It doesn’t necessarily mean easy content, just nothing that requires me to spend an hour assembling a team or weeks of grinding to get the appropriate gear.

it’s more related to spvp than it is to pve – or at least should be.

changing specs in a pvp area should be easy to test new builds – to call wvw not ‘real’ pvp is simply wrong and discredits a part of the game that is actually way more populated than spvp.

Grinding for stats for pvp is a burden, not a challenge nor is it a joy to stop playing the mode you like just to fight someone in all ascended gear and an over populated server.

Wvw is a joke because of pve rules.

you do realize that wvw is actually pvp …and the armor system is different in spvp.
just fyi – Real pvp is = player vs player

please don’t obfuscate the discussion.

So where can i sing born free, wvw or spvp ?

and just for reference, my point is extreme pve rules should not be imposed in Player vs Player areas because it makes things confusing as you so wonderfully just displayed.

wait wait wait ….

you mean all along i can go to wvw totally naked and there would be no significant difference – that would actually be awesome if true! pvp in my birthday suit with ascended earrings, rings, amulet and weapon, in just my boxers! – Born Freeeee! -sings-

no, i’m sure you are wrong because I have fun with builds…but i find the discussion amusing.

ya, it is funny, for pve ….in fact, just for fun, i may run naked in dragon stand with just a yassith’s spire / great sword and ascended trinkets and the rest kitten naked for laughs!!

Not for pvp – not when you are both in a downed state looking for that extra damage to win a fight. ^.^

further, based the pver logic, i only need 1 ascended armor to be the equivalent of a full set of gear – i’m sorry, that sounds not only illogical, but quite the scam considering how much it costs to make an all ascended armor set.

SO
Either you concede that anet is playing us with the costs of ascended gear – which the skins aren’t special at all….OR that the stats are much much more significant than you care to admit.

yes, i understand your point of a paper analysis.

I tested this in game, my necro is a reaper with level 72 gear that solos dragon stand ( killing stuff along the way ) …what made the difference ? the 1 ascended yassith’s spire.

so theorize all you want, I know for a FACT it makes a HUGE difference. Provided you know what you are doing of course.

hit hard, dodge fast …it’s a pvp thing. test it in game with the right build, put away the calculator and theoretical math formulas, it’s not translating in game as much as you think. My math is more accurate to what i “EXPERIENCED” in game.

once I get my reaper into all ascended gear, it will be a force of nature, that’s if my revenant doesn’t zerk anyone before hand.

spike your ascended stat of choice, then get back to me, none of these fluffy pve builds will show how powerful ascended gear is, but a spike build will make it clear, painfully clear.

i tried a non zerker set on my engineer, i hardly felt a difference. So for defensive pve builds, I’ll agree that it isn’t much difference, ie – if a dragon is hitting you for 30k damage in one shot, you are going down…no matter how much health and toughness, and if you have enough health and toughness to withstand that 1 shot deathblow – you don’t have enough power to kill a fly.

With full zerker gear, it’s night and day.

In fact, what is the ascended trinket equivalent of yassith’s stats ?
I’m dying to make a combo condition spike build, and the vipers may have given me that chance! would be a nice change in strategy from pure physical dps.

Don’t waste ascended on non damage gear, that’s when ascended gear becomes less significant……..but on full spike gear …it’s very significant.

So i will say it is subjective from a pvers view and a pvprs view.

To be honest, I had my warrior and necro in hot surfing for hp sites with level 65-72 gear lol – got pretty far with it too!! my necro is a reaper with level 72 gear haha! ( and a yassiths spire :p ) – great for positioning practice. but that won’t fly in pvp! The enemies in pvp areas are not as predictable as npcs ( thats the fun of going to that level difficulty – players upgrade the game by getting better :p )

there’s a challenge for a pver, do hot in level 65-72 gear!! it’s a rush! ( i leveled the chars with tomes, so i just used the gear i got from missions to get em into hot areas. )

the point I keep trying to make, specifically for anet…..is you can’t use pve rules on pvp / wvw. please, those little details matter to us. but in pve i have more fun going in with lesser gear :p

edit : thinking about it, spiking a healers build might be an option for a team player. ie – a spiked ascended heal stat on a dedicated healing druid. ascended items shine when you spike a particular stat and follow it up with a play-style for that build. with zerker you give up defense, so your play style revolves around dodging and lighting fast high damage attacks. – rock …. counter this with a mesmer, that stacks confusion creates exploding phanthoms and goes invis. – paper……..counter the mesmer with a condition engineer – scissors.

I’m really not looking to debate with anyone, as much as I’m trying to share what i love about the game and the way i like to play it. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I do enjoy the shinies too….but that’s something to do between coming up with pvp strategies for me.

i disagree. it’s significant, and you absolutely feel the difference. it’s night and day.

further, readers don’t have to take my word for it, do the math and test it.

please allow me to explain why ascended armor is not “sooo optional” to even a casual player that loves playing exclusively in wvw. WvW is a casual mode of the game because you can jump in at any time and play hard.

I took a quick sample of ascended leggings – it is an average of 4.5% stronger than exotic wear. each part – including trinkets, weapons and backpack vary….but for arguments sake, I will stick to the 4.5% avg I calculated.

What does this mean ? – it means that the armor defense is – 4.6% stronger, in a berserker sample, the power is 4.4% stronger the precision is 4.6% stronger and the ferocity is 4.6% stronger. – all these stats average to 4.5 – So i will use this as a base for the rest of my comments being that some items yield a higher % and others lower.
Also consider that as my precision and ferocity goes up, so does my chance to land a critical hit of greater damage. so not only does my base damage and defense stat goes up, my chances of landing major damage blows goes up as well.

now to say a blanket statement that ascended armor is only 4.6% stronger is obfuscating.

why ? – because if i just changed my leggings on my character…not everything, just 1 item. My character would be 4.6% stronger.

With this in mind lets consider all the items you can use at one time
1 amulet, 2 rings, 2 earrings, 1 backpack, 1 weapon ( 2 weapons would avg the same % increase as 1 2 handed weapon, as the stats are scaled ), helm, shoulder pads, coat, wrist guards, leggings, boots ( 6 clothing items. )

ok…so i change my pants…..i’m 4.6% stronger. Next week, I change my boots I’m AN ADDITIONAL 4.6% stronger, after I change all 13 items on my character, the sum total at an average of 4.6% is 59.8% stronger.

In the game, this means that a person who is all pve, that did all the grinding for every article of ascended gear is 59.8% stronger, than a person who has devoted all his time into becoming a master pvpr. wvw is in fact, pvp.

59.8% is significant in any mode. and i do believe it’s higher because some parts jump a little higher in difference than the leggings.

this is why, you can’t impose extreme pve rules in a pvp environment.

jumping puzzles could be the middle pve – pvp area – because this is an item more favored by pvers than pvprs ……pvprs consider that a distraction from strategic warfare.
No, I don’t want to compete while hopping on one foot chewing bubble gum while some guy that never pvpd before in his life has a 59.8% advantage over me.

now lets consider how extreme this difference becomes when you have a high population server fight a low one.

Thats a bad joke, not a competitive environment.

“And attempting to say the teams that work on PvE work on WvW is dishonest.”

Actually pretending PVE doesn’t impose Extreme PVE Rules on PVPrs in WVW is insanely dishonest. Ted cruz would obviously be a pver……no time for that, we need wvw to be great again!

Until anet removes the pver point of view from wvw , it will continue to fail. Debate the story all you want, the results are official and obvious. ALL of Tyria and Maguuma, pve and pvp is suffering because of bad pve advice. PVPrs are far better suited as guides for both pvp and pve – PvPrs are after all master pvers that wanted a bigger challenge.

Please focus on fixing Dragon Stand, you can’t sit here and tell wvwrs how to play when you can’t even fix your own pve areas, and this is addressing the players…not anet, anet has done a fabulous job with hot ….I solo Dragon Stand all the time while the pvers run to safer areas in tyria. I can’t solo a meta event, at least not within 2 hours!

and yes, wvw needs a system that will allow us to test a variety of builds in wvw to use in spvp. And please spare me the typical pver response of “but you can test builds in spvp now” – it’s about the maps and ability to watch many others play / respond to our current builds of choice. It will also help anet get better more accurate information on how to further enhance spvp. I have all the right reasons.

They, spvp and wvw, are connected, only a pver wouldn’t see that connection.

dear anet – the pvp community, are literally professionals as endorsed by your major prizes. Treat us as the professionals you want us to be in your tournaments and don’t put us in the same category as the *Pre-k- pvers. Don’t give professionals, pre-k rules. it will go a long way in establishing a long lasting professional relationship. Thank You.

• - Pre-K = Pre-Kill – the time before a player has his/her first real player vs player encounter.

the current wvw scoring system is a pve rule, get rid of it.

ANY pvp’r worth their weight in salt knows that to win that fight you just join the biggest server.

pvp guys don’t demand as much as the pve guys, the problem all along has been the wvw guys taking advice from the pve community.

wvw should be one huge spvp practice arena – where guilds can train their teams on the battlefield.

pvp wants balanced fights, not to be forced off our preferred way to play. please stop imposing your extreme pve rules on us. Please stop giving anet bad advice. You are IN FACT giving anet bad advice.

Yes, wvw changed, it got worse, and it’s emptier than ever. we are much much easier to please than your pvers that basically want anet to write a brand new game every 3 months, it’s night and day vs wvw ..where we are asking for OLD maps back!! I get it…..come on, time for anet to have fun with the pvp community – the ones that already destroyed pve and moved on.

In fact, these “pve” guru’s advice are 2 losses and 0 – ZERO wins…. Not only is wvw empty, but so is dragon stand. They have Their own areas to worry about than to tell wvwrs how to play.

Now, if you don’t mind, Arenanet wants to make pvp money, and I’d like to help them.

Just add the spvp locker to wvw and it will do wonders, let them have some of their pve skins – that should be the extent of pve stuff in wvw ….for argument sake, spvp and wvw should have the same rules…… spvp doesn’t have to grind …neither should wvw. Think of wvw as one large spvp practice arena.

what WE need is practice, not grind.

btw, I think hot is great, i wish the pvers would stop complaining. Looooooove love love the revenant …for pvp reasons of course

as of this post i’m not blaming anet anymore, it’s become painfully obvious they’ve had too many distractions with bad advice from their pve community. Anet does amazing work, else no one would have anything to complain about.

if ascended armor only affected pve – I’d agree….

But considering a person that only plays wvw, has to stop playing his favorite area, max his craftsmen ( which takes a lot of money and time, I maxed all of them ) – lots of gold, lots of farming for mats ….I’d have to say you are inconsiderate of how others want to play.

So the only thing that is getting old is the bad advice people are giving to anet. They are losing people because of it.

Please stop giving bad advice to anet, I don’t play like you and your misinformed comments are affecting my game too.

Thanks.

the requests from the wvw community are not to change pve – it’s to ask your “Mode” of extreme pve to stop imposing “Your” rules on us.

To argue this point, is to say you don’t want the wvw community to grow. That’s very not good.

We don’t want to grind for gear to play vs other players, we want balanced matches.

We WILL outgrow the pve community if you honor these simple requests, we don’t need an overhaul, we need fairness and to not be forced to roll with a community that doesn’t want our community to grow and have fun our wvw way.

most of these pve is more popular and better than pvp is false and unwarranted, they are just the same “we want the shiniest” attention, and bad advice that’s keeping anet from the multi billion dollar pvp industry.

trump would not approve of unbalanced wvw matches, would be fun to start a change.org petition for fairness and equality in wvw lol

use the spvp locker system for wvw, that will fix the ‘shiniest’ weapon pve rule imposed on pvprs. This will allow me to feel more casual in my pve only builds, and not stressed that i’m not all ascended with yassith’s yet. That is a horrible burden to place on someone that only wants to play wvw. Make pve a ‘fun’ choice for us again.

and in all fairness, pvp shouldn’t be a mandatory mission for rewards that affect pve players either. The rules should change when you opt to attack another player. For arguments sake, pvers are civilians, and pvprs are the military. Different rules!

#freewvw2016

exactly, and that’s the reason e-sports is not coming easy. Since pve is being treated as end game, pvprs are being pulled out of pvp to pve to get things they need for pvp. getting ascended armor and hot only stats is a pure pve grind. major turn off for pvprs.
Unbalanced matches are fine with tequatl and the shatterer, but not in a player vs player environment.

so you see pvers, we don’t want to take anything away from you and your goals, we just don’t want you to impose your rules on us. Your end game is not our end game, we’ve moved on to bigger game.