Guild Wars 2

BUT would be nice to see some achievable upgrades, say you get a legendary (right now all are from 950 – 1100 damage, just like the exotics) and that is BAD!

No that’s not bad, thats a skin choice.
If you want it go get it, because you think its pretty, its not stat based.

Skins are the rewards.
If you want gear grind theres a lot of other gear grinding games, The Secret World comes to mind, the gear grind determinds your level in that game.

GW2 does not need gear grind.

When I grind for gear, I grind it because 1) I need the stats, 2) I think it looks pretty.

once when I was playing vanilla wow even before the first guildwars was released, I killed a random mob and got a purple bow.
I was like… HOLY CRAVIOLI! OO

that never happens in guildwars2

wouw.5837:

Catisa.6507:

Cantha will not happen for gw2.

:’(

The funny things is the devs want to do it, but they can’t from NCSoft West

devs said keep asking for it and maybe the bigwigs will change their minds.

Reack.8795:

Instead of switching the priority on the F Key to Rallying > Other > Loot.

Maybe they should all be seperately bindable, therefore making it a lot easier on what to do before/after rallying or looting.

That way you’ll have to choose, rally your ally and help everyone else, or loot whatever is on the ground and help yourself. That way it’ll make it more of a moral decision than a forced decision.

Just my two pence

Im open to that suggestion

i heard about them talking about this couple of months ago.
I dunno if they’re still gonna make good on this.

Sucks to be you brah.

Vayne.8563:

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

@Rizzy

ESO probably has a lot of potential, but all MMOs launch with bugs and lack of content. Every single one. At around the time that launches, Guild Wars 2 will be getting its act together. You can bet that a lot of people will try it, but I’m not convinced it will retain a lot of people.

It might…but it’s by no means a sure thing. The surest thing about a new MMO is that it will be buggy as hell, and it will not have enough content for the content locusts.

This is true but its been 7 months.

7 month is NOTHING to an MMO. It’s the bottom of the line time wise. Most MMOs today are forced to release six months early. They spend the first half a year catching up. This is what the game should have been on release.

It really does take a year or two before MMOs find themselves. And this is true of almost all of them. There has to be enough there to hold people till that happpens. Rift did it. And theyr’e doing okay.

In another year, this game will rock, but now…it’s just in it’s growing stage. It’s pretty typical.

Its been in development since the release of GW:EN, in 2007
Thats a long time for development.

7 months after release is a long time.
This game needs to start showing more polished features soon before more players start leaving.

JQ’s Malchor leap might as well be Undead territory since no one clears any of the outposts other than those needed to get to the temples, a stark contrast to when the game was new and players controlled all the contested WPs.

randomfightfan.4091:

this post made me laugh, thank you.

Also he has been nerfed. You can no longer lure him to a wp and even if you did, you can no longer res rush him… Oh wait. I guess they nerfed you :P

Not at all, considering nothing in Arah interests me and I’m always the last person standing against him when I’m in a bad pug.

obal.3218:

Thankfully, no he has not.

thankfully nothing in arah interests me

since release?

No other dungeon boss left quite an impression on me as that guy.
When I first did AC Exp, I thought nothing could be worse than Kholer, boy was I wrong.

Giganticus Lupicus just eats up anyone who doesnt know how to dodge faster than Kholer and it comes down to just you being the last one alive, all of a sudden everywhere around you is red circles. :|

I swore off Arah after doing all four paths and the last one the team decided to strip down and lure him to a wp so they can respawn after getting pwned.

So what Id like to know is has he been nerfed to be more forgiving to newbs who don’t know how to dodge?

In other words is he more pug friendly

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Rizzy.8293:

Karizee.8076:

Rizzy.8293:

I couldnt agree more, GW2 has the potential but its being squandered away.
If it doesnt pull up its socks ESO might knock it into the dust as another one of those games that tried to take down WOW but failed.

By looking at it’s ocean of dead servers, WoW is doing a fine job of that all by itself.

TSW doesn’t have this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_7McRTFuA

You sure?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So0p8key1TQ

Let’s not bring up TSW PvP. I chose not to discuss that BECAUSE it’s so much of a joke. There are literally whole servers dominated by one faction (one guild in fact) because noone wants to play that gear-dependent, poorly-designed mess.

and wvwvw zerg fests is better? :|

Vayne.8563:

@Rizzy

ESO probably has a lot of potential, but all MMOs launch with bugs and lack of content. Every single one. At around the time that launches, Guild Wars 2 will be getting its act together. You can bet that a lot of people will try it, but I’m not convinced it will retain a lot of people.

It might…but it’s by no means a sure thing. The surest thing about a new MMO is that it will be buggy as hell, and it will not have enough content for the content locusts.

This is true but its been 7 months.

Karizee.8076:

Rizzy.8293:

I couldnt agree more, GW2 has the potential but its being squandered away.
If it doesnt pull up its socks ESO might knock it into the dust as another one of those games that tried to take down WOW but failed.

By looking at it’s ocean of dead servers, WoW is doing a fine job of that all by itself.

TSW doesn’t have this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_7McRTFuA

You sure?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So0p8key1TQ

Swagg.9236:

Rizzy.8293:

because a cloth armour shouldnt look like its made out plate metal
and vice versa

I don’t even know what you’re trying to argue here, and in any case it’s incredibly subjective.

Is it now?
So you’re telling me, something like the heavy karma armour in Arah can pass off as a light armour, despite it being sooooo shiny i can see my face in and having all those spikes and such.

Not even silk is that reflective or sturdy enough to make spikes, friend. :|

Ultimatums are not answers.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

I liked a lot of what I saw in TSW. I thought it was a good game. In fact, if it weren’t for Guild Wars 2, it would probably be my MMO of choice.

The OP makes some very good points about what Guild Wars 2 can learn from TSW, but there are also issues that TSW had which put a monkey wrench into things.

For one thing, though the voice acting is very good and the writing is superb in TSW, the fact that they chose not to voice your character meant most things in the game were monologues. This was a deal breaker for me. It really bothered me that my character was completely mute. I didn’t have conversations, I just listened to people.

It also pays to remember that TSW is written for adults not teens and the dialogue can be a lot grittier. There’s plenty of cursing, there’s references to sex, all sorts of things that writers in Guild Wars 2 can’t refer too. That kind of limitation does make it harder to make the world feel "real’. At least for me. I sorta wish GW 2 wasn’t a teen game so I could feel like I was in an actual world. There’s too much goody two shoes in my character for my taste.

But one thing that I disliked most about TSW was the skill system. I’ve already played Guild Wars 1 which had a very cool skill system, and the last thing I want to see in Guild Wars 2 is build wars. I really don’t want a game that I have to spend all my time figuring out a build, rather than playing. Or go onto a site and get the build of the month. There’s already a bit of that in Guild Wars 2, but that’s the trade off.

IN Guild Wars 1, there were a whole lot of people who insisted you use the build of the month. Sabway or whatever it was that month. And if you didn’t, well good luck finding a group for the Underworld.

I’m not saying complexity is inherently bad, but the idea of complex builds is a tricky one. I’d rather have less elitism and more the ability to play the way I wanted to.

The mute thing didnt bother as much, I thought well, atleast I dont have to level up, just gotta unlock my abilities and be more awesome.

WRONG

Bloody outright lies they were.

We dont have levels you can play as you want.

B.S what they shoulda said was, we dont use the conventional leveling methods, our leveling system is based on your gear’s quality level.

So say you have items that are of quality level 4, that means you’re QL4, in some dungeons its best to be QL5 before you can go into those, so its best you farm for a bit for QL5 gear.

Really? their idea of leveling up is gear grinding, I detest gear grinding.

It’s one thing TSW should learn from GW2 is to do away with QL and have gear become standardized qualities from Normal, Magical, Exotic each providing a marginal increase to stats so you’re not over powered just because your gear is better.

I get that. The purpose of this thread was to pull good ideas from a competitor to shape the already better game. Guild Wars 2 requires far less improvement than TSW (or any competitor) does to reach its potential, IMO.

The Secret World’s problem is that, despite its claims and goals, it’s so traditional and has some of the worst gear grinding, travelling, bugs, animations, and enemy design I’ve ever seen (such as the Ak’ab, which are an obnoxious pain in the kitten to deal with). Despite this, I my experience with the game has been solid because of the things it does very well – the story, despite your mute Link wannabe of a character… the build variety, even if player elitism and the desire to min/max places an unintended but inevitable limit on it … dungeon bosses that don’t kill you through boredom.

It is because Guild Wars 2 is already so good and because it has so much potential that I would love to see it take an example from its competitors – AND GUILD WARS 1, FOR THAT MATTER – in the areas that they happened to perform exceptionally well in.

I look at my character and see a huge lack of options, when I fondly remembered being able to do almost anything in Guild Wars 1. I look at the story and think of a million and a half ways that it could be better. I spend 5-10 minutes wailing on the same boss that does the same bland strategy the entire time and think to myself “God, this might actually be fun if the boss had 75% less health.”

It’s like the game is just a few common sense steps from being the best game ever made, and that just irks me more than anything.

I couldnt agree more, GW2 has the potential but its being squandered away.
If it doesnt pull up its socks ESO might knock it into the dust as another one of those games that tried to take down WOW but failed.

So yeah cantha was awesome

Medium Armour Options for female: Trench coat or Skimpy
Medium Armour Options for male: Trench coat or asymmetrical couture piece.

because a cloth armour shouldnt look like its made out plate metal
and vice versa

Vayne.8563:

I liked a lot of what I saw in TSW. I thought it was a good game. In fact, if it weren’t for Guild Wars 2, it would probably be my MMO of choice.

The OP makes some very good points about what Guild Wars 2 can learn from TSW, but there are also issues that TSW had which put a monkey wrench into things.

For one thing, though the voice acting is very good and the writing is superb in TSW, the fact that they chose not to voice your character meant most things in the game were monologues. This was a deal breaker for me. It really bothered me that my character was completely mute. I didn’t have conversations, I just listened to people.

It also pays to remember that TSW is written for adults not teens and the dialogue can be a lot grittier. There’s plenty of cursing, there’s references to sex, all sorts of things that writers in Guild Wars 2 can’t refer too. That kind of limitation does make it harder to make the world feel "real’. At least for me. I sorta wish GW 2 wasn’t a teen game so I could feel like I was in an actual world. There’s too much goody two shoes in my character for my taste.

But one thing that I disliked most about TSW was the skill system. I’ve already played Guild Wars 1 which had a very cool skill system, and the last thing I want to see in Guild Wars 2 is build wars. I really don’t want a game that I have to spend all my time figuring out a build, rather than playing. Or go onto a site and get the build of the month. There’s already a bit of that in Guild Wars 2, but that’s the trade off.

IN Guild Wars 1, there were a whole lot of people who insisted you use the build of the month. Sabway or whatever it was that month. And if you didn’t, well good luck finding a group for the Underworld.

I’m not saying complexity is inherently bad, but the idea of complex builds is a tricky one. I’d rather have less elitism and more the ability to play the way I wanted to.

The mute thing didnt bother as much, I thought well, atleast I dont have to level up, just gotta unlock my abilities and be more awesome.

WRONG

Bloody outright lies they were.

We dont have levels you can play as you want.

B.S what they shoulda said was, we dont use the conventional leveling methods, our leveling system is based on your gear’s quality level.

So say you have items that are of quality level 4, that means you’re QL4, in some dungeons its best to be QL5 before you can go into those, so its best you farm for a bit for QL5 gear.

Really? their idea of leveling up is gear grinding, I detest gear grinding.

It’s one thing TSW should learn from GW2 is to do away with QL and have gear become standardized qualities from Normal, Magical, Exotic each providing a marginal increase to stats so you’re not over powered just because your gear is better.

I just want to see more medium armour that does away with being a freaking trench coat.

killcannon.2576:

In other words “please make it easier for me and people like me to farm the world events”

Farm?
You only get the chest from them once a day now.

Katreyn.4218:

I honestly really enjoyed the questing system and general experience of TSW. The whole looking up clues and things was pretty neat, though you can look up guides to like everything now.

Sadly the combat left a lot to be desired. Like…a lot (the dodge system and movement during combat was just not that fluid and felt terribly awkward). The “class” system was interesting, if a little confusing for me at first. I will agree there is a ton of variety here, but there is also a ton of room to screw up a build.

I found that even attempting to be a pure on “mage” as solo was way too hard for its own good. If you were soloing, going melee/ranged was pretty much mandatory. Or if you go “mage” was like blood/assault rifle. I can’t say I know much but the 3 months I tried it (and I enjoyed it might I add) it kind of felt I was being pigeon-holed to cookie cutter builds regardless of all the choices.

Personally I kind of prefer GW2 system because there is less room for mistakes. The game shouldn’t really punish you for wanting to wield a certain weapon or play a certain way. Granted for most classes something is always going to be better/preferred.

And the jumping. Holy crap can you get more default with the jumping animation :|

easiest class to master honestly.
I had a harder time on thief managing my Initiative and on my ranger swapping out pets than my elementalist.

Oh fire grab still down, its cool brah, burning speed ring of fire, earth attunement, magnetic leap, get fire shield, earth #2 earth skill #5, switch to air whack a couple of times with lightning whip, get static shield, attune to fire, breath of fire, burning speed, ring of fire, fire grab

Sounds like a Norn name, the first part anyways.
8/10

Ritzu Ikkimaru – Obviously of canthan descent.

I like mine :>
It’s nice coz its not a pair of tights or a robe so I dont feel like robin hood or wearing a skirt

Storm of the Ages.9076:

Rizzy.8293:

Storm of the Ages.9076:

I think Loot should remain number 1 on the list. When you are in a huge party like WvW or when playing with massive NPCs you could easily lose out on loot because there are too many dead bodies everywhere. I turn mine to auto and make sure I pick up everything really fast before the mass rez.

You are aware in WVWVW loot bag spawns at your feet and pressing F when that happens SINCE THERE IS NOTHING ELSE that F would do will Loot.

If there is a person trying to RALLY again pressing F would immediately RALLY them, allowing another member to get back in the fight and produce more enemy corpses AKA loot bags at your feet

You sir, must have never been hit by a zerg xD In Tier 2 the zergs are strong and when people start dropping, it means their zerg is stronger. So you quickly loot your bags while kiting the zerg and hope you avoid enough CC and AoE to survive it. Rezing is a luxury of the numbers.

And you know why they’re stronger than you?
Because people like you dont pull your part and rally those who fell.

OOH PRETTY SHINY BAG, Screw you dying comrade go rez yourself

And as long as the lessons learnt from TSW remain the positive things, yeah no biggie.

But if their biggest lesson was to take what TSW does with “level progression” into GEAR GRINDING, then hell no.

you never speak in TSW
NEVER

Substance E.4852:

I really hope not. The last thing we need is them wasting time trying to make every single armor set make sense on something that is 50% horse.

Every single set of pants, boots, and more than a few chest pieces would need complete redesigns.

Oh yes and modding the boots to fit charr feet is so easy.

Who are you anyways
Why do you think you’re so important that you get to decide what the devs work on based on what you feel is more important.

Catisa.6507:

Loot > rezzing … the dead can respawn, my loot bags are lost if my side gets wiped.

Rezzing =/= Rally

NinjaEd.3946:

In all honesty assuming a lfg tool was really needed, I’d agree. But there are more important things to be worked on, and even if a 3rd party source taking over someone elses responsibilities looks poor on their end, it is up and running so not that big of a deal. If there was absolutly no lfg tool anywhere then yeah, I’d say thats pretty kitten important to be working on but some people are willing to go out of their way to help others and I salute them. An official GW2 dungeon finder isn’t necessary at this point.

Oh really?!
More important things are needed?
Sorry, but do you work at Anet?
Are you an official from Anet?
Do you decide whats more important for the devs to do?

If the answer to any of the above is NO. your opinion on what’s important doesnt count.

Sun Tzu says war is about deception not honour.

If you’re fighting in a war for honour, you’re dead.

Everything hes done is legit in warfare, there is no “fairness”

NinjaEd.3946:

Who says I do cof runs? And I’ve never ran a party with more than 2 warriors or 2 mesmers at any point in time. Maybe you just run with people who enjoy speed runs, I actually try to do dungeons the right way. And yeah, you can set up a post and go do “other stuff” because you post your name in gw2lfg.com. Really see nothing wrong with the site, it made things much more conveinient.

Theres nothing wrong with the site.
You’re the one who brought up the site as though this is was a reason for Anet to not bother with implementing a proper dungeon finder.

And I’m telling you NO.

Anet made Gw2, It should be up to Anet to implement a dungeon finder, not a third party source.

SHM.7628:

Rizzy.8293:

Ever had this happen, someone falls down next to a corpse you have not looted.
Your inventory is full, you press F it keeps popping up to loot.
You press esc to close the loot window and press F again only to have it offer you loot from another corpse.

Annoying?

Very.

Can we please have it this way
1) Rally Ally
2) Other function
3) Loot

FYI: WVWVW loot bags appear at your feet, away from any corpses, picking up those loot is easy, when you’re in the middle of a big fight and an ally falls in a pile of corpses, really your top priority is looting stuff and not keeping your numbers up?

Like I said, the whole ground system is messed up. I actually have the opposite problem you do. I’m trying to get the loot quickly and bypass ressing an NPC. There’s a ton of loot onm the floor and I have to get what I can quickly in the throws of battle. Its already difficult enough.

I get what your saying though. In the heat of battle when there isn’t much time to screw around, you are being sidetracked by the mess on the floor.

A priority system coupled with a full auto loot option would solve this nicely. what do you think?

seems legit, or let us set the priority.

Tolmos.8395:

Forget centaurs, I wanna be a giant. That would be AWESOME.

Of course, I can’t really see an MMO doing that >_>

they’re called Norns

NinjaEd.3946:

Because it works? and people shouting in LA for dungeon groups was annyoing and futile. Now you can “shout” across all servers in your region without having to retype anything out. It is the same thing, just not as official as anet releasing their own. Both accomplish what you’re looking for.

really it does?
So your idea of a COF run is all Mesmers LF 4 Zerker wars or something along those lines.

No.

My idea of a Dungeon finder is Queue for it and go do other stuff, get notified for dungeon, click enter to start.

but anyways bump

Storm of the Ages.9076:

I think Loot should remain number 1 on the list. When you are in a huge party like WvW or when playing with massive NPCs you could easily lose out on loot because there are too many dead bodies everywhere. I turn mine to auto and make sure I pick up everything really fast before the mass rez.

You are aware in WVWVW loot bag spawns at your feet and pressing F when that happens SINCE THERE IS NOTHING ELSE that F would do will Loot.

If there is a person trying to RALLY again pressing F would immediately RALLY them, allowing another member to get back in the fight and produce more enemy corpses AKA loot bags at your feet

Dasorine.1964:

yes well any issues with the initiative system its not because its “overpowered” as 99% of people and this thread seem to think.

these people seem to be under the impression that initiative is an infinite resource.

Arekai.5698:

Rizzy.8293:

Arekai.5698:

The whole stealth mechanic in this game is broken as kitten.
The only one defending it are thief players, obviously. It has been kitten from the start.

Elementalist here

My advice to you, go reroll a thief and experience their “OP” first hand

The fact that your class can aoe the kitten out of them doesn’t mean the stealth mechanic isnt broken.
You go into stealth for 90% of the time without ANY drawbacks. If you look at other games, with competent developers, you notice that stealth comes with drawbacks like slow movement speed, reveal on hit and so on so you actually have to have a brain when to use it and not just spam stealth and then 222222 for 1337 frags.

LMAO

Has nothing to do with AOE.

Sure it helps, but its the fact that I MOVE AROUND and continue to spam 1 is what makes it hard for a THIEF to backstab.

Really you can go into stealth for 90 percent of the time WITHOUT ANY DRAWBACK?

Can you do damage in Stealth?
Just curious.

Seriously, go reroll and thief

Ever had this happen, someone falls down next to a corpse you have not looted.
Your inventory is full, you press F it keeps popping up to loot.
You press esc to close the loot window and press F again only to have it offer you loot from another corpse.

Annoying?

Very.

Can we please have it this way
1) Rally Ally
2) Other function
3) Loot

FYI: WVWVW loot bags appear at your feet, away from any corpses, picking up those loot is easy, when you’re in the middle of a big fight and an ally falls in a pile of corpses, really your top priority is looting stuff and not keeping your numbers up?

Apollo.7389:

I of all people understand everything that you guys are saying yet it does not matter. The fact that they can spam a more 5ish times is BS and not skillful. The thing that frustrates me is that they can do 20k damage in 5 hits or less. I have been hit by a 10k heartseeker a couple time and 6-8ks all the time. They do not need heartseeker spam do be good so get rid of the ability to spam it.

Also in team fights you have a lot to deal with and its not realistic to be able to withstand a thief spamming heartseeker and if not that the homing and bouncing shortbow 1. These are not skillful moves.

I played thief a LOT and I hate when I catch myself spamming 2 because it is just as easy to kill someone with it as anything else. Same thing with shortbow 1. I just stand up on a ledge and afk while the arrows home in on people and bouncing 3 times able to hit the same person twice.

You guys didnt even touch on the short bow so I assume you feel the same way as I.

The fact that you dont seem to understand that initiative is a depletable resource is your own fault.

You have skills the channel multiple hits, D/D thieves dont, Leaping death blossom is used an evasion or AOE.

Arekai.5698:

The whole stealth mechanic in this game is broken as kitten.
The only one defending it are thief players, obviously. It has been kitten from the start.

Elementalist here

My advice to you, go reroll a thief and experience their “OP” first hand

I got a better idea, why dont you roll a thief and learn to play one before q.q ing about how OP that weak class is?

Centaurs are not bad guys :|

Centaurs are misunderstood.

If you played the first guildwars you would understand this.

Look up Zhed Shadowhoof.

I still cant stand how they pronounce Quay as Kuway.
It’s pronounced KEY.

First Expansion
The Canthan Chronicles
Playable Race – Tengu

Plot: After a long council it was decided by the races to reunite the humans of Tyria with their Canthan counter parts and the reestablish the Tengu back to Cantha after they were forced out by the emperor.

The players will discover what really happened in Cantha and what forced the emperor to take such drastic measures as to force off all non humans out of Cantha.

The players will then help establish a new leadership on Cantha, liberating her peoples from the tyrannical rule.

Second Expansion
The Elonian Exodus
Playable Race: Centaur

Plot: After the Canthans and Tengu joined forces with the alliance of Tyria, our heroes set forth to new frontiers in Elona, a land desecrated by the dragon Kralkratorik and the Lich Palawa Joko.

There our heroes meet up with a small rebellion of Humans and Centaurs fighting off the undead scourge lead by Palawa Joko, holding to the last bastion of life, after the first menace has been defeated, our heroes seek out Kralkratorik and slay him.

With their victory, they return towards Tyria, where the humans and centaurs of kryta try to reconcile their differences in a peace effort motivated by the Elonians and remember such heroes as Zhed Shadowhoof and Ventari who believed in peace.

Third Expansion
Jormag’s Last Stand
Playable Race: Kodan

Plot: with our heroes on a victory streak, they head out to defeat Jormag joined with the Kodan, they break the Sons of Svanir’s hold on the north.

More Possible Expansions
Isle of Janthir – return of the Mursaat

lern2dodge
If you’re dying to heart seeker spam its your game play that stinks not theirs.

A thief traited for max int can only spam it 6 times before being completely vunerable for 5 seconds, more than enough time to kill them.

talk about thick eyebrows 7/10

@Rater.
Yes I do have canthan ancestry.

Rizzy.8293:

Obsidian.1328:

You’re right, they occupied most of the area that came to be known as Ascalon. Owning it is a different ball of wax, and implies a sense of permanence. Saying humans pushed out the Charr from one of their major hunting grounds has a different meaning than saying they pushed them out of Charr land. It’s a subtle difference, but important because it makes the Charr claim to the land less legit.

Did humans encroach within Charr borders? If you were a Charr, definitely…they considered everything within sight to be theirs. If you were human, yes too…but I doubt they ran into much moral quandry about pushing north some nomads to settle a previously unsettled land.

You’re implying the charr never used ascalon?
It meant nothing to them?

So then why would they fight so much to bring down that wall?

Clearly Ascalon was of some significant value to the charr for them to fight tooth and claw for.

Ascalon was charr land, it laid within charr borders.
Humans stole the land from the charr when they were having internal leadership squabbles and could not organize a proper defense, especially not after the humans sent in an assassin to kill the head shaman at the time.

Obsidian.1328:

You’re right, they occupied most of the area that came to be known as Ascalon. Owning it is a different ball of wax, and implies a sense of permanence. Saying humans pushed out the Charr from one of their major hunting grounds has a different meaning than saying they pushed them out of Charr land. It’s a subtle difference, but important because it makes the Charr claim to the land less legit.

Did humans encroach within Charr borders? If you were a Charr, definitely…they considered everything within sight to be theirs. If you were human, yes too…but I doubt they ran into much moral quandry about pushing north some nomads to settle a previously unsettled land.

You’re implying the charr never used ascalon?
It meant nothing to them?

So then why would they fight so much to bring down that wall?

Clearly Ascalon was of some significant value to the charr for them to fight tooth and claw for.

Ascalon was charr land, it laid within charr borders.
Humans stole the land from the charr when they were having internal leadership squabbles and could not organize a proper defense, especially not after the humans sent in an assassin to kill the head shaman at the time.