I always thought wall increased the protection from 6 to 8 seconds, and since wall lasts 9 with this trait, you can get 2 procs of protection. Could be wrong but I always thought it worked this way.
It’s also kinda hilarious the thie’f steal gives him a better fear than what you have as a necromancer.
I think a pre-nerf minion mancer build with axe stood a good chance, a single flesh golem landing his charge could finish the fight for you.
But the issue is a smart thief will just pelt you with shortbow while avoiding most of your attacks to force your heal and cooldowns and then switch to dagger for the burst.
Stolen fear isn’t that great. It has a long cast time with an obvious animation and only works well in melee range. It’s a solid skill that a smart thief can make good plays with, but it doesn’t compare to doom across the board.
No, I’m pretty sure Necromancers whole schtick since D&D is supposed to be summoning spooky skeletons and doing lich stuff.
I do however think they should revert a lot of the shaves they piled on Necro during the Dhuumbfire era since Dhuumfire is effectively removed from play since the functionality change of the trait. Mostly I miss the way Putrid Mark used to work.
I dont suppose you also get a trail of whatever it is youre siphoning (seriously what is that stuff?) from you to their location?
I don’t believe so. But, if you’re using sigil of Fire and it procs while they are in stealth, it will show their exact location at that time. Super useful for hitting them in shadow refuge especially.
I’m not sure but tainted shackles may work too. At least the last pulse with immobilize does. Also just in case, if you start a channeled attack (dagger 2 is great for this) before they stealth, it will also keep hitting them even if they stealth after the channel begins. Dagger 2 excels for this because if the heals suddenly stop, you know that the thief is out of range as well.
My strategy against thief is to catch them as soon as they come out of stealth. I play power necro 60206, and I’m aware of my burst capabilities. Thief comes out of stealth -> dark pact -> well of suffering. If they port out using shadowstep, no big deal, you just made them use one of their best skills. In case they don’t, I go into DS, fear them and then start pounding them down. I generally save my DS 4 for when they go into stealth, so I can keep great pressure on them at all times.
Don’t you have the same risks with a pug group? Playing in a party who can align builds and strategies and communicate is far superior. At very least, people tend to party with other players they think are good, so it cuts out that chance of getting a low skill player on your team.
I still have both FW and SW with FITG. To me the opportunity cost of being in DS is really high, and I’m not going to eat a bunch of damage or not apply pressure so I can maybe break a stun I predict is coming – but I am still getting used to the trait. I personally don’t see FITG allowing you to ditch a stun break as much as I see it just addressing a weakness.
Plus between FITG, SW/FW, and plague, I feel like I have a lot of options for stomps compared to my build from a few months ago. Much harder to lock down in skirmishes as well.
I would like to see some slight buffs to condi builds – namely reversing the dhuumfire buffs – and then reduce wurm cast time, and add stability to the second activation of spectral walk – after you teleport. That and group support is so lacking, that needs bigger changes. But if that happened, just a few little bumps, I think condi Necro is in a great spot.
The only concerning thing to me isn’t that they don’t have things figured out, but that they are intentionally spreading out info because the release date is still a long way out.
This doesn’t concern me, as I would rather they took the time to get it right than rush it and release it with problems. Patience is a virtue, and in good game design its a necessity.
I want the same thing too, but I’d be annoyed that they announced an expansion in January and didn’t release it until November.
The way I see it is the betas don’t have an NDA, and betas will take place roughly 2 months before release. So if the release date is August, they have 2 months from now to give out info on their terms and take credit for all of the work, which I’m sure they want to do. Plus that maintains hype.
Anet is all about not talking about it until it’s ready, but they talked about it months ago. That’s my only point, really.
This is an interesting thread. Anet clearly has internal test servers and builds where these things exist – where else did they get the video footage from months ago? They absolutely have enough information to start sharing some of it.
The only concerning thing to me isn’t that they don’t have things figured out, but that they are intentionally spreading out info because the release date is still a long way out.
Cele meta builds may have a high skill ceiling but they are generally very forgiving and not all that difficult to play effectively. Pretty sure that’s partly why they are meta.
Zerker specs and the non meta classes are the hardest to play right now, IMO.
You know what? you are right.
Anet is not wrong at all, it needs to make these builds for you guys since you guys are really stupid and can only play such classes. Enjoy your broken game.
I apologies anet, your interest was indeed for the player base, I guess.
I can’t believe people are defending power necros…sigh.
The spec is bad. Its more surprising that you’re so upset about it. at least in my opinion.
Plus you’re being a hypocrite about IP on engineers.
I disagree that every class needs to know positioning and rotations as well as zerk specs do. It’s fairly easy to hop on a cele ele or shoutbow and faceroll on point and still be effective. I agree with you about passive play in general but your focus on just a few classes is a mistake. You can’t argue against spinal shivers being a passive proc and dismiss IP as being fine and still have a valid point.
It’s definitely a step in the right direction, but it’s not enough to make us, for example, on par with where dps guards are in the meta. But better, for sure.
We still lack group utility (Putrid Mark is still nerfed, limited blast finishers), and offense takes awhile to ramp up with the nerfs to grasping dead, terror, and Mark of blood, as well as no life force to start a match. But this change was solid.
No. I wreck power necros all the time, I have 0 issues with rangers/necros/turret engis. In fact, I have no problem facing any class as a cele engi except possibly condi rangers. However, don’t overthink this too much. I’ll do some baby step explanation for you sir.
Necro takes no skill. Rangers take no skill. Turret engis take no skill. Yet they are all effective in solo q/team q because again…they take no skill but have very high reward. It is ANNOYING to deal with, Extremley over used by the player base, and extrmley frustrating for anyone who wants to be part of the PvP scene.
Take a minute and think about it. The reason we don’t have a proper leaderboard system isn’t because it is hard to make one but it is because there is a small player base in the PvP community. You can’t blame Anet for tryin to make a leaderboard but you can blame them for giving bad players really easy classes to play and have a very high reward and are extrmley annoying to fight and hence make the community extrmley toxic..as I am right now. I used to play gw2 on a daily basis at least 2-3 hours a day..Now I haven’t even bothered to log on for a good 4 days simply because it is a pain to Solo q, a pain to team q, and even more of a pain to wait in heart of the mists for 8 minutes just to match up against 2 turret engis , 1 power necro, 1 power ranger, and a shout warrior over and over again only to die to random procs or players who are absoultley doin nothin but summoning turrets.
tl;dr: If you are tryin to tell me to learn to play then please don’t coz i already did and I pretty much know how to deal with each of the classes I mentioned. IP is an issue, but it has a counter. Spinal shivers, power ranger + air and fire, turret engi in general…there are counters as well…however…the skill required to play these classes… close to 0.
Anet needs to reward SKILLED gameplay, or this is NOT esports, but a complete and an utterly sad joke.
I find it very hypocritical to complain about passive procs and passive play when engineers have IP, or passive boon procs, or turrets. Don’t cherry pick the classes you rant about, if you’re going to do it, go all the way. Most classes have stuff like this in meta builds – at least these zerk builds require rotation and positioning, unlike some cele builds out there.
Plus, these classes you’re complaining about are still weak classes that allegedly take 0 skill. If you’re such a great player, you should be able to deal with them without some wall of text.
Lastly, QQ about downed state that requires 3 traits is hilarious. It’s very easy to stomp downed state.
The problem i found with Foot in The grave is that their is multiple abilities that can make up for the loss of this trait. Basically you can ignore the FiTG trait and take a damage one and make up for it with a spectral skill or well that will counter any hard cc. If they were to put FiTG under the toughness, power, crit damage / chance tree it would be worth traiting. But as of right now it seems to be useless still for what you can replace it with.
Ehm O.o
FitG is there to relieve yourself from using “multiple abilities” utilities - If anything, Condition Necromancer has been drive to the “Locked Utility Syndrom” for the need of having 2 Stunbreaks and Corrupt Boon for as long as FitG was the way it is…
In this respect, it is completely fine to “lose” a damage trait (such as Greater Marks, Reaper’s Protection or Chill of Death) – since the trade-off is that you are capable of taking a utility of which you can offer pressure in another area
And the last line is perfect for the trait – I got no clue why you would want to replace it
In my opinion i just dont see it being a worthwhile trait. You dont have to use multiple abilities to counter hard cc’s on the necro. You can easily jump into death shroud to avoid damage while being stunned or dazed or use a spectral / well skill if necessary. If you encounter situations where your getting spammed with hard cc’s non stop then the trait would be useful but i have never seen that happen yet in wvw or spvp and i play my necro as a distractor or “tank” for my teams.
I think for the trait to actually be viable they need to reduce the amount of points required to take it and either move it down a tier or into a different tree. The tree it rests at now buffs the users crit damage and life force pool. And builds that utilize these 2 aspects benefit better in my opinion from other traits.
I think FiTG should be a trait under vitality or Toughness
You’re playing your necro as a tank? Do tell. I think this may explain your opinion.
Played a couple matches as turrent engi. Pretty funny that I can leave a point with my turrets up, and come back to a half health enemy who still hasn’t taken down my turrets. Half health and I wasn’t even there – this happened more than once and I only played a few matches. Also kiting around is so easy with rifle control and how many knockdowns turrets have.
Helps that they only take damage like structures, pretty sure they can’t be crit or take condi damage. Plus they self repair and give group buffs.
Crate on top of that and the heal resetting at low health is just bananas.
No, I don’t like the playstyle. But it already exists on necromancers, mesmers, engineers, guardians, Rangers, and to some degree, elementalists. It’s super common, and they are historically not useful in PVE or WvW, plus, many of these builds have been very overpowered and unfun to play against in pvp because it’s so passive.
Most classes already have problems that specializations could potentially address, and spending one on more useless/passive AI seems like a waste. The only way it wouldn’t rob players of class changes that they deserve would be if it went to a class that is already very strong in every game mode. Regardless, Anet doesn’t have the best track record with AI so it doesn’t seem like a good use of resources.
Still necro’s have of one of the worst downstates in game.
That is extremely incorrect right now.
Its very correct. It’s one of the easiest down states to stomp, with maybe only engi being even worse. Warrior is bad too but they can at very least get up and banner, red or stomp someone before they die.
it’s still incorrect right now. Downstate necro is a lich. Power necro with cod,ctd,de wrecks. Might be easy to stomp but in the current meta cleave is usually what drops people in big teamfights. If you wanna cleave the necro that’s fine but you better hope he doesn’t get a cod proc. You almost HAVE to safe stomp necros now. this was not the case just a few weeks ago.
Or just have 2 people stomp, can’t do anything about it then. Plus that only applies to power necro.
Still necro’s have of one of the worst downstates in game.
That is extremely incorrect right now.
Its very correct. It’s one of the easiest down states to stomp, with maybe only engi being even worse. Warrior is bad too but they can at very least get up and banner, red or stomp someone before they die.
Define “skill”? Go ahead, let’s see what you come up with. This term has been the most abused excuse from players to date.
I asked this question once and the best answer I saw was playing a high risk high reward build successfully. So arguably the power rangers and necros are actually skilled players despite OPs opinion, and turret engis and more meta classes are lower because they assume less risk to play.
Personally, I (and many others I know) find the map very enjoyable.
Same! It’s a lot of fun, you just can’t go in with a build that is courtyard centric. I hope stronghold is the same way.
As far as it favoring range – that’s just not true. I had a team that didn’t work well together and we were absolutely thrashed by a full melee group. Because they focused targets, they rezzed their downed, they worked as a group. It almost always works the same way, the map rewards the better team.
1. Kite, kite, kite, kite, kite. You’re almost entirely motionless. Thieves will feast on you because you make it so easy to land a backstab.
2. Don’t lay marks at your feet except for Mark of blood. Don’t lay Reapers Mark down like you did – that’s an important cc, use it to seal a kill. It’s useless to just fear them away from the point for another second. Anyone with half a brain will dodge roll through it anyway.
3. You have too much of a rotation. WoP, signet of spite, corrupt boon, then marks – that happened more than once. A decent thief will dodge one or both of those utilities with evades or stealth. Save them for when you’re sure they will land – plus corrupt boon doesn’t do a whole lot against most thieves. You’re better off being aggressive with scepter or death shroud there.
A fight with a truly good thief is probably in favor of the thief. Equal skill: it will come down to who can land their bigger skills, and who can interrupt, etc. after they steal, be ready to dodge the skull fear, and otherwise try not to let them go into stealth using black powder and heart seeker – a lot of thieves remove conditions in stealth, so this is not only interrupting their rotations but an offensive move for you too. If they decide to pressure with shortbow, try to counter by using scepter since it has the same range.
and it was a duel. I won 3 times in a row initially before he traited and thrashed me D=
You didn’t really have a chance. I mean in pvp a carrion necro can break through the threshold, and if you do it quick enough you can turn the tides with a fear and Some other condis. But if they were full dire, I don’t know how you could deal enough damage.
But, power Necros can deal with their condis easily enough and tear them up, because diamond skin isn’t super useful except for beating up on unexpecting condi builds.
Yes, it’s always active when their health is above 90%.
The ele traited to counter you. Your best bet if it’s a dire ele is to switch to power and negate his diamond skin. You can trait pretty easily as a necro to handle a condi ele. (Dagger/dagger, staff, well of power, plague signet, etc).
You might not see this as helpful but as a condi necro you are going to have a really hard time getting their health down enough to actually start hitting them with conditions. If it were me I would just counter their counter.
They could release 1 specialization every 2 weeks and it would last 4 months. I’m not sure what they are holding onto it for. If they dump them all at once that seems worse than spreading them out.
I vote that the damage stays the same but Life Force gain is increased per condition on the target. 3% LF per condition, target has 5 conditions = 15% LF.
Also, Feast Of Corruption can hit pretty kitten hard with full berserker. Scepter isn’t a good power weapon but I like to use it anyway because of the poison on AA, relatively fast AA and FOC can crit some pretty nice numbers especially with an Intelligence sigil.
It does give 3% per condition – it works how you described. That’s an impressive screenshot but I wonder if food, stacks, and might played a role there? I can’t get it to even crack 4k in PvP. I’ve been close but never reached it.
8% per condi would be really high, but it’s currently at 3%, I believe. I think if it went to 4% or it could be a reasonable buff, but anymore and you could see huge gains all in one shot.
Nerfing to balance is the answer. Power creeping like this is just bad. That’s all there is, I just don’t understand why ANET hasn’t learned at all.
Like why screw over balancing one more time? When the game is already close to being balanced. I guess history is just fated to repeat itself with ANET.
Here’s why you’re wrong and this is probably the worst example of power creep in the game:
Necros have taken some noticeable nerfs in the last few months. You can no longer run out death shroud, gain some quick life force and hop back in – the cooldown now starts when running out of life force. You can no longer sacrifice minions at the start of the match for life force, either. And just recently, Foot in the Grave took a big nerf into uselessness when the stability changes came through and left FitG with a single stack. So Anet came to their senses and used this as an opportunity to address a big weakness with the class with a trait that will reward some skill based reactive play.
Essentially what you’re doing here is looking at a Necro power timeline that has steadily decreased over time and suddenly increased, and you’ve focused on the increase and ignored the larger picture.
Not to mention that power necros won’t use this trait. Not to mention that 6 seconds requires 2 important trait slots. Not to mention that taking FitG means giving up another powerful trait like Greater Marks. Not to mention that no necro will ever break a stun every 6 seconds because that means that they only ever hit DS when they are stunned, and never to soak damage or deal it.
The right way to use it is to not use it. Sorry, it’s true; they’re bad right now in all formats. The only life stealing skill really worth being used is Dagger 2 for the added sustain on power builds.
Blacktruth, why are Necros and warriors being compared here? Last I checked warriors have a strong meta build, and Necros aren’t close.
All I see from you is a rampage about hypothetical, unrealistic numbers that are benefitting a weak class. Oh no guys! Necros got a buff! Commence the QQ so they can be an easier kill!
Discuss the effects on PvP?
Will Necro now become a dominant force?
Your title should have an asterisk that explains that this is a theoretical cooldown if the necro simply flashes DS off every cooldown and never actually uses death shroud, and that a necro already has offensive and defensive reasons to enter death shroud on top of this.
Not to mention that Necro is already a weaker class and still lacks some sustain and mobility that will mean they are still a strong target for being focused.
I don’t think you want to put pear skins on your staff. They would eventually rot and get gross and sticky. If you must have a fruit skin, perhaps a pomegranate.
How about a coconut instead? Probably a little bit better for weaponizing anyway.
Coconuts would be a solid option, I don’t think we’re limited to fruit. Maybe the nutritional value of pear skins was a consideration though?
I’ve found myself really enjoying greater marks, I think it is a pretty good trait. I mostly think it’s great for cutting down on misses or failures of putrid mark. But that being said, new foot in the grave is way worth giving up greater marks for. Even if it breaks one stun a minute, that’s a huge improvement. Plus all the stability it can give.
I don’t think you want to put pear skins on your staff. They would eventually rot and get gross and sticky. If you must have a fruit skin, perhaps a pomegranate.
You shouldn’t be choosing your trait line by what stats they give. And it’s an easy choice over master of terror, that trait won’t do anything against most good players since they’re far more likely to break the stuns before the extra duration takes place. Plus it doesn’t always give another tick on every fear as far as I know.
You’re right that it isn’t going to break a stun every 10 seconds, but it will break a few and grant some short stability. In a few games tonight I didn’t notice a big improvement in any large fights but in 1 and 2 enemy encounters it did seem to make a difference. I do miss greater marks but I can learn not to spam marks when people are blocking again.
Agreed about power builds, I don’t think they can sacrifice the damage to still function.
You may not care about the stats in the traits line, but don’t think everyone else gimps themselves that way. The stats actually impact you 100% of the time, so ignore them at your own peril.
Again, go record an hour of playtime in ranked PvP with the new trait and count how many times it makes a tangible difference. Think about the extra 100 stats in TWO other more applicable trait lines you are missing. Think about the other Grandmaster or Master trait you are losing.
BTW, if you actually watch yourself play for an hour, Master of Terror will make a big difference a lot of times. You should be using fear as your weapon as a condi necro, so it’s not just helping you with longer cc, but also more dmg from terror.
I know it’s nice theoretically to have a stun break every 9 seconds, but look at reality.
How are you building enough life force every 9 seconds? What is the opportunity cost of going in to DS where you can’t heal and many of your abilities/utilities are useless? You probably won’t have Dhumfire and your fear won’t last long, so look at all the damage you are giving up…it’s not that much less than what a power necromancer has to sacrifice to get just the occasional stun break/1 stack stability.
If you guys think it’s a big deal for what you sacrifice in stats and other traits, so be it. Frankly, I can’t believe a stunbreak/1 sec stability is a Grandmaster trait for a line giving Ferocity and LF pool stats.
I’m open to it being as exciting as some of you think, but I’m very skeptical until I test it thoroughly.
I already said it’s not going to proc all the time, I don’t understand the diatribe. You also tried to explain a lot of super simple necro things that I already understand, so thanks I guess? But I got it.
Before you guys go crazy, make sure you test it out in ranked PvP. I think you’re somewhat over-reacting.
First, no power build will give up that much damage. Go ahead and record 1 hour of gameplay in ranked PvP and see how many times the stun break REALLY makes a difference versus all the damage you lost.
Second, with condi builds, you are seriously gimping yourself with so much in a trait line for life force pool and ferocity. You could actually argue that with 6 points in that trait line…you should get both master of terror AND soul marks. A Necro’s biggest weakness is zero life force at the start, so Soul Marks is necessary and Master of Terror might be better than a stun break on DS.
All this is debatable still, so you need to try it out before going crazy over a 6pt stun break.
You shouldn’t be choosing your trait line by what stats they give. And it’s an easy choice over master of terror, that trait won’t do anything against most good players since they’re far more likely to break the stuns before the extra duration takes place. Plus it doesn’t always give another tick on every fear as far as I know.
You’re right that it isn’t going to break a stun every 10 seconds, but it will break a few and grant some short stability. In a few games tonight I didn’t notice a big improvement in any large fights but in 1 and 2 enemy encounters it did seem to make a difference. I do miss greater marks but I can learn not to spam marks when people are blocking again.
Agreed about power builds, I don’t think they can sacrifice the damage to still function.
Oh dear… Soul Reaping is becoming one of my favorite traitlines now >__>
So much good stuff to choose from!
This trait will make fighting other Necros a lot easier now… it breaks fears too
Earthshaker to the face? Not anymore.
Basilisk Venomed or Sleigh of Hand-dazed? Nuh huh.
Guardian hammer ring? No more.
This will definitely open up a lot more variety,
Ty Anet <3
Well we could still get Earthshaker’d in the face, but now we have more options on reacting to it
