Guild Wars 2

Chaith.8256:

rotten.9753:

The first two of those changes are what brought ele from the bottom tier to the top. If you reverse them and nerf eles more, they will be even worse than before.

Burning Speed evade frames and Frozen Burst blast didn’t affect much..

The introduction of Celestial Stats, and the nerf revert to Cleansing Water, that pretty much launched Ele from garbo tier to SS Tier. It had sweet little to do with Burning Speed or Frozen Burst changes.

That same patch introduced a lot of sigil and rune changes as well, which to me highlights the issue the best: it’s not just 1 thing. It’s not just the cele amulet, IMO. It’s not just might, or just elementalist skills. It’s a lot of things together that push ele over the top, so the hard part is deciding which ones to tone down, because blanket changes to runes, sigils, and amulets hit all classes (which may not be bad in some cases), and elementalist trait changes hit many ele builds.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Axe-Focus-and-related-traits/first#post4807203

This should about cover it.

Then I really hope they remove axe/focus and minions.

Bhawb.7408:

My guess is the new specialization will remove either scepter or axe if it removes a weapon. Its probably scepter, since greatsword doesn’t appear to have any meaningful synergy with that weapon (and you’d probably want staff on a condi build anyway) although I don’t remember them saying we had to lose access to old weapons, just a general idea that we’d lose something from the main profession.

I believe we lose access to some traits, and I would guess some utility skills/elite/heal, because otherwise the specialization will just have so many more options than the core class with new weapons and 6 new utility bar choices.

Pvp is basically boon corruption to put pressure on boon heavy classes, but that’s the only reason to bring a necro specifically. In wvw we have quite a lot of AOE damage and big zergs are places that our support can actually start to show a little bit. Plus we can take more of a punch than an Ele can so wvw zergs make sense for us.

PVE there is no reason that I’m aware of. Mesmers can strip boons more consistently than we can and offer more utility. Perhaps some of the PVE changes in HOT will help make necros more relevant.

I spent 225 gold on a skin, and about 170 for another. I don’t really have much to spend my gold on, so I get skins that make me happy with how my character looks.

I was thinking more about this and didn’t want to create a new thread, but I’m hoping that the new specialization doesn’t lose access to corruption skills and the curses line, but I think if the specialization will lose a set of skills, it’s not likely to be wells, spectrals, or minions, and likely not signets. So that means they’ll lose corruption skills, and corrupt boon. If it loses access to any line, I sure hope it’s blood. Not because I hope the core necro is stuck with blood, but because blood is so bad that it doesn’t deserve a subclass spot, too.

I’m also really wondering if the GS will be a straight forward GS, because for a class that has so few weapon choices, it seems like dagger will already play a similar role, so I wonder how GS will be different.

Kilger.5490:

Roe.3679:

Kilger.5490:

Roe.3679:

With the stability change we could see this trait become useful.

It could also become useless… if it just gives us one stack of stability it will be easy to ignore and go death perception all the way.

If it say applies one stack per second then… maybe. I cant see it getting better than it is however, it seems the intent is to tone down stability overall.

It already is pretty useless. But there’s a chance it has a future with the stability change.

If you dont see its use then thats like teaching a blind man to see but what do you think would improve it with the change?

Ah yes, the cornerstone of any good conversation about relatively meaningless things: insinuating that someone is so oblivious that they can’t see the obvious. Bravo. Did you read the thread?

They could give us one stack of stability and make it a longer duration, which would bring it up. It all depends on how they balance all stability skills, but I would look more into it if they made this change.

Kilger.5490:

Roe.3679:

With the stability change we could see this trait become useful.

It could also become useless… if it just gives us one stack of stability it will be easy to ignore and go death perception all the way.

If it say applies one stack per second then… maybe. I cant see it getting better than it is however, it seems the intent is to tone down stability overall.

It already is pretty useless. But there’s a chance it has a future with the stability change.

I see all the time that people will say X spec/class takes no skill – I think I’ve seen this said about every single build. So what do you define as a class that does take skill?

zapv.8051:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

While I feel your pain, as I main Mes and Necro, I think it is safe to say mesmers have it just as bad as you guys right now

I dunno, you guys actually have utility for your team. The problem with mesmers is often simply that thieves exist (ectoplasm is the stupidest buff ever). Overall though, mesmers, necros, and rangers (not the longbow kind) all could use some buffs.

Necros can put a lot of pressure on boon heavy classes though. We have a niche reason to be brought as well.

The thing thing that always sticks out to me the most about Necro and mesmer is that both classes have super easy to interrupt heals. The classes most in the meta right now all have heals with no cast, or protected heals, or heals so fast you couldn’t interrupt them on purpose in any reliable way. Personally I wish that would change.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Gaile Gray.6029:

leman, I feel sure you’ll find that the concern you’ve expressed has been and will continue to be a focus of the entire dev team during the process of development, testing, polish, beta testing, balance, more polish, and so forth. The last thing an expansion pack would be intended to do is to put one profession at the top of the pyramid, where all others are “inferior” in some sense.

I have every confidence that all the other professions will do just fine playing in with, and against, a Revenant.

I don’t think the concern is about power creep so much as it is that the Revenant’s choices (that we’ve seen so far) are all good. For the stuff we’ve seen, everything Revenants have is useful and is interesting. For all existing professions, this isn’t the case. Useless traits and skills (or even weapons) dot all eight current professions, and it’s disheartening to hear that things like Slow and Resistance will show up “in specializations” but not hear anything about updates to existing stuff in order to make existing professions more interesting or rounded.

Basically, it’s bringing up the question of “when the specializations and Revenant are better designed and cooler, what reason is there to play a core profession?”

Yup, this.

Vortok.6975:

What’s bother me is if i want to play rev either i’ll need 2 sets of armor, play hybrid or celestial, it’s not very attractive on this point look very limited.

What we saw wasn’t the whole class. I believe they have at least 1 more set of weapons and 2 more legendary summons.

^ I really doubt fear is changed. I could see blinds being changed, but that’s about it.

Well this is why everyone says Necros are good “If they watch their positioning.” Necros are still strong in the right situations, but those situations are not always super common, and it’s not as if we can really escape a bad one.

I find that playing necro well almost depends on the team being strong. I can bring a lot of damage and control and annoyance to an enemy team, but if everyone isn’t pulling their weight, if there is more skill on the other team, it won’t matter at all because Necro is focused so much. I know that this statement applies to almost any class, but it feels especially so with necromancer, as if smaller differences are more pronounced.

It can definitely be frustrating. But necro seems really strong in Deathmatch, and I’m confident that Stronghold will be good for us too.

Why can’t you block people based off emotes? I think thats a valid question. I can’t select someone emoting and block them. Why not? Especially when they do it so much that you can’t even read chat.

Lightsbane.9012:

Holl.3109:

I’m jealous already :>

Anet, PLZ don’t forget us poor necro’s

with the change in stability my build is pretty much destroyed. i’d say with the exception of greatsword that neglect has already happened.

We don’t know how stability will be changed on skills. For all we know, your build may end up even stronger.

ronpierce.2760:

Roe.3679:

ronpierce.2760:

I just wanted to say. One time; I suggested a trait for necromancer that said “Break stuns when entering Death Shroud”. And everyone jumped ALL over me with how broken OP it’d be. But I don’t see how it’s any more OP than stun breaking with legend swap. O.o

Well I only saw one stun break out of all their bar skills and it was their elite. So it still stands at this point. Plus they can’t just flash their legends like we can flash DS. If they use it to stunbreak it is a more significant choice.

They’re preemptive in that way. Stability on dodge roll. Cc break on swap/elite. And I’m pretty sure they will have other cc breaks we haven’t seen yet. We haven’t seen any offensive/squishy power legends which is likely where those will be. They have traits based around breaking ccs.

Sure, but it’s still op for us. To be determined for revenants.

With the stability change we could see this trait become useful.

ronpierce.2760:

I just wanted to say. One time; I suggested a trait for necromancer that said “Break stuns when entering Death Shroud”. And everyone jumped ALL over me with how broken OP it’d be. But I don’t see how it’s any more OP than stun breaking with legend swap. O.o

Well I only saw one stun break out of all their bar skills and it was their elite. So it still stands at this point. Plus they can’t just flash their legends like we can flash DS. If they use it to stunbreak it is a more significant choice.

Bellamy.9860:

Also is it confirmed/denied that revenant can’t choose utility skills? Arrows are there but they could be for changing skill location only.

Apparently it’s something they are still exploring.

I am hopeful that this will actually improve us overall. Maybe FITG will be more useful, and it will still be corrupt able to fear. So less stability overall (hopefully) will only help classes that lack it.

Muchacho.2390:

Roe.3679:

I also don’t like the lack of customization. You can swap those skills but you can’t really change them. Plus, the dwarf legendary wasn’t very impressive to me. Mallyx seems like it has some potential, but condi Necro will wreck it from the way it looks now, and as fun as that seems, necros have sooo many condi tools, and they rarely get used because in practice it just doesn’t work out.

Intersting, i found the dwarf legendary stronger then the mallyx one. Though as a necro the demon one seems more interesting…

I mean a 3 second taunt (which can be used more often) or a aoe that gives stability (even if it is weaker), weakness to the enemy and a lightning field.

The taunt used half of their energy pool though. The elite seemed pretty weak too, but maybe it reduces damage by a whole lot.

It sort of seemed to me like it may compliment the DPS legend. I’m guessing there will probably also be a support legend? Either way, it didn’t look like it would be a main utility set. I did like the hammer though.

The Mallyx jump-well that shadow steps people out of the well seemed really really cool. I Also really liked the mace/axe weapons, although I didn’t notice much soft cc there. But mallyx seems very weak to boon removal.

Lucentfir.7430:

Lol most of the necros that are saying they’re going to jump ship for Revenant, only say that because its new. What these people fail to realize is that there’s hardly any cleanse, and long durations of whatever conditions you apply will definitely outlast the boon. Not only that but if they sit in Mallyx the entire time they they don’t have any stunbreaks aside from Legends swap, so Fear/Terror them when Resistance is down and you’ll eat them up easily. Necro will have much better condition handling just based off of what I saw in stream video for Revenant. Transfers and consume condition with any sort of boon corrupts will make Revs hate you.

Great post. People should be reading it.

I also don’t like the lack of customization. You can swap those skills but you can’t really change them. Plus, the dwarf legendary wasn’t very impressive to me. Mallyx seems like it has some potential, but condi Necro will wreck it from the way it looks now, and as fun as that seems, necros have sooo many condi tools, and they rarely get used because in practice it just doesn’t work out.

The revs any doesn’t seem good to me. But it looks a lot more fun to play and that’s what I’m jealous of for now.

Well Rev does definitely seem to be getting mechanics that Necro should be getting, IMO. I mean just calling it condition manipulation like they’ve never done is a little…. curious.

That being said, I don’t think the class will necessarily displace necros from what I’ve seen already. I do think that they’ll need to work hard to balance energy and the legend swapping. Also it seems like some things could really use cast times/animations.

I’m mostly unhappy that it seems that every Rev skill seems to have new technology or mechanics, and if they dont update current classes, it’s just going to be so much more interesting. Compare those revenant weapon skills to axe/focus. Plus, they bragged about updated UI, so I sure hope that they can update DS UI as well.

I’ve had a huge amount of lag over the last 24 hours or so. If I relog it seems to go away, but it’s happening every time I log in.

Well I’ll definitely be exploring revenant when it comes, but looking at this from a Necro perspective, I am more concerned about the new boon than the revenant’s abilities.

Why? We’ll already be getting GS.

The siphon traits really don’t mesh with condition builds, it would end up being a poor use of traits. You’re better off taking 2 defensive utilities and improving your positioning than actually traiting for defense.

Keian.9216:

Eidolon: an eidolon is said to be a spirit image of a person living or dead. it could also be a shade or a shadow look alike of someone else.

[edit] i honestly hope that we have more than one profession specialization cuz i dont really want to have a greatsword on my necro -_- and having only one specialization makes it seem like were forced to take it to get stronger even if we dont want it
unless its just as strong as the current builds?

It’s only one for now. May be more in the future.

It takes me about 35 seconds to change builds too. The worst is when I get courtyard a couple times in a short period of time and I’m always switching back to my regular build, than to courtyard.

Actually the worst is when you make a mistake and have the wrong weapon or traits.

I like necros because of how I can be effective from range and have an impact on 1v1 fights as well as group fights, so I find engineer to be the next most relatable class, and warrior as well. But I always end up back with necromancer because being my main, I’m used to having a large amount of control over conditions and engineer just doesn’t match up there, and warrior is a little more melee-centric than I’d prefer.

Across all MMOs I tend to choose classes that aren’t strictly melee and arent strictly ranged, and I almost always take a debuffing sort of class as well.

Xillllix.3485:

This is Anet balance for you, Deathly Claws doing 6-7k damage on auto attack every second in comparison the Glymph of Elemental elite skill doing maximum 2k every 15 seconds if it can ever hit the right target.

I agree every class needs a cool thing, I don’t think it should be nerfed, but instead they should improve all the useless skills and create more counters, specially reduce the cooldown on reflects and stun-break/stability skills.

How sad that power necros have elementalists beat so badly in that regard. I mean, it’s not as if eles are a top class right now, they absolutely need better elites and even shorter cooldowns on stunbreaks.

kitten.1685:

Roe.3679:

As someone who plays pvp and WvW, the whining about perma stealth thief builds is hilarious. Pvpers afraid of pvp? This is QQ straight from the WvW forums.

And no, I don’t play thief.

perma stealth thief builds will be op in this gamemode and you will probably need at least 2 of them per team at the start. that’s a fact. and its also stupid.

Then prove it. Facts are supported by evidence. I’m certainly open minded to hearing how you’ve arrived at this conclusion without this game mode even being in open beta.

Only thing I find very interesting is some sort of trade life force for mobility situation. Other than that we’re just copying mesmer shatters, essentially.

Dawdler.8521:

Roe.3679:

Dawdler.8521:

For a pure tank that doesnt use ferocity or direct damage damage at all, definetly worth it.

For everyone else I cant see how you cant have it since its one of the most OP traits in the game, augmenting an already powerful ds. There is an option of fury+stability rather than just critrate though if you want to balance it out somewhat.

Yes, it’s so OP that almost no one uses it.

It’s theoretically powerful, because of its uptime if you build around it and never use life force in any way other than to flash DS. But that doesn’t happen in practice.

OP covered it pretty well. But it will never be buffed because it’s strong “on paper” and needs to be outright removed, and stability given to necros in some other fashion. This trait holds necros back, IMO.

I was actually talking about the +50% crit. Really poor wording on my behalf, lol. In fact completely wrong. I really should stop using my phone

Oh that makes a lot more sense. Still not really OP, but it is build defining.

As someone who plays pvp and WvW, the whining about perma stealth thief builds is hilarious. Pvpers afraid of pvp? This is QQ straight from the WvW forums.

And no, I don’t play thief.

Solid post. Agreed on all points.

Dawdler.8521:

For a pure tank that doesnt use ferocity or direct damage damage at all, definetly worth it.

For everyone else I cant see how you cant have it since its one of the most OP traits in the game, augmenting an already powerful ds. There is an option of fury+stability rather than just critrate though if you want to balance it out somewhat.

Yes, it’s so OP that almost no one uses it.

It’s theoretically powerful, because of its uptime if you build around it and never use life force in any way other than to flash DS. But that doesn’t happen in practice.

OP covered it pretty well. But it will never be buffed because it’s strong “on paper” and needs to be outright removed, and stability given to necros in some other fashion. This trait holds necros back, IMO.

I’m with flow on the healing in DS debate. There may be a need to have different values for PVE/WvW and pvp, but there’s not way healing in death shroud would be op. It would solve a lot of sustain issues, for sure.

Rym.1469:

Power Necro is hard countered by focus from medi guards and other instant burst professions at the start of the match.

But…

If I start pooling up my Life Force, I can quickly trash half of premades, without Lich or #1 spamming. I find those 2 rather ineffective and I use Lich for downed cleaving in teamfights.

Power Necro can take down Mesmers in teamfights in a matter of seconds, can rip Thieves in parts within two seconds, obliterate S/F eles (who are not that rare now) once they use their earth cooldowns, make quick work of other Necromancers, have rather favorable matchup with any Engi that isn’t turret and puts hell lot of pressure at celestials.

I would say it’s perfectly viable. But I haven’t seen many good Power Necros yet.

This whole post needs an * that says: “against uncoordinated players.”

Shieldbash.5304:

Tom Gore.4035:

Nice to see the OP kept his own language so clean and mature.

Right? Guy posts a pic complaining he’s offended yet pot calling the kettle black!

There was other inappropriate language but not from the OP. Check the names. That being said he shouldn’t have come here posting images with names.

SYPHA.9283:

Pretty sure Lopez has no clue WTF shes talking about. Hell when asked if pet rezzed the ranger, her response was….SHE HAD NO SPIRITS.

Id bet my left kitten that the ranger was pet rezzed.

First, Lopez has been around long enough that you should at least give him (her?) the benefit of the doubt.

Second, I have been in situations like this where enemies have rallied with multiple downed and I have no idea how. This is worth exploring.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Roe.3679:

If they procced on entry and exit, you could make them proc twice in an instant by flashing death shroud. That’s probably why it isn’t both.

9 second cooldown says otherwise.

Good call. Not sure then.

If they procced on entry and exit, you could make them proc twice in an instant by flashing death shroud. That’s probably why it isn’t both.

lil devils x.6071:

Roe.3679:

lil devils x.6071:

oneply.9586:

put up or shut up

and you are the first person ever in 20+ years of gaming that i have ever heard say that pk and pvp are the same thing.

DID you bother to read the links above? They said it too. You must not have gotten out much. FYI DARKFALL called pvp pking. I played that as well, if you didn’t hear it called that, what were you doing thew whole time?

So if I have our youtuber record our matches you will pay us 100g each for winning without killing anyone? They can kill us.. we just cannot kill them.

I think the added stipulation of ranked or unranked queue should also be added.

He said we were fighting pugs, so would that not be unranked? LOL

Could easily be hotjoin.

lil devils x.6071:

oneply.9586:

put up or shut up

and you are the first person ever in 20+ years of gaming that i have ever heard say that pk and pvp are the same thing.

DID you bother to read the links above? They said it too. You must not have gotten out much. FYI DARKFALL called pvp pking. I played that as well, if you didn’t hear it called that, what were you doing thew whole time?

So if I have our youtuber record our matches you will pay us 100g each for winning without killing anyone? They can kill us.. we just cannot kill them.

I think the added stipulation of ranked or unranked queue should also be added.

oneply.9586:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

lil devils x.6071:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

lil devils x.6071:

SobeSoul.6910:

lil devils x.6071:

SobeSoul.6910:

Considering Forest and Foefire are the only maps with PvE elements lol

No, they just have more pve elements, Courtyard is the only one without them. IF one team is focused on fighting and not capping, the other team can win easily by not fighting. YOU can stun/ bind/ knock back to win as well, and not even kill a single player.

Khylo has no PvE elements. Neither does Temple.

There’s a difference between objectives in a map and PvE.

If the objectives are environmental, it is still player vs environment.
You still have to cap rings to win though, so I see those rings as environmental factors.

And the fact you fight other players over rings doesn’t matter?
It’s PvE because it’s Conquest…

I won’t bother you anymore, but please don’t be surprised if players disagree with you on that.

Even the gamedesigners disagree on you with that

You don’t have to fight players over rings is the issue, not everyone plays that way. I had them run away the whole game.. IF that can happen and they still get points, that is PVE, not PVP. You should not be able to score without killing for it to be considered full pvp. It is PVE with pvp elements when scoring is based on environmental factors rather than killing players.
That isn’t to say it isn’t competitive play, it just isn’t full out player killing.

I agree, but PvP isn’t the definition of players Killing other players.

Wiki quote:
“Player(s) versus player(s), or PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants”

It states conflict, not the act of killing the other players.

So you might not enjoy it, the facts state it’s PvP wether the enemy has to be killed or not. So in conquest the conflict resolves about who’s controlling the rings.

Like WvW, which has a conflict over rings aka Towers/Keeps

talking to a brick wall isnt really worth it.
he has his own personal definition of what pvp is and therefore no matter what the REAL definition is he wont accept it.

plus what i find funny is by his concept of pve then everything is pve and pvp doesnt exist in any game anywhere. cause every game takes place in an environment that is not player controlled. /headmeetwall

Their stance is just that only deathmatch is pvp, even though it’s just a mode among pvp, whether it is MMOs or first person shooters or whatever.

lil devils x.6071:

oneply.9586:

last night i started getting really annoyed with the map selector, 4-5 games in a row on this dang map. it only ever happens when i play ranked q. so boring to do the same map over and over again.

@lil devils
Player vs Player
Whats not pvp about conquest maps?

Player vs Player is KILLING other players, Player vs Environment is interacting with the environment. When the environmental elements are the primary focus it is a PVE centered game with PVP elements, you can kill players to win, but it is not necessary to win. That isn’t full PVP. The only full PVP map they have is courtyard, the rest are PVE maps with PVP elements.

In courtyard you can get one kill and perma stealth the team as time runs out. Is that pvp? Objectives to fight over don’t make things automatically PVE.

Wraith is a good one too. Wraith and reaver make the most sense to me.