I agree with a lot of these suggestions, but there is some harm to all classes with sigil changes, although to a far lesser extent.
I think there are more common attributes among those top classes though. They all have powerful, uninterruptable (or practically so) heals and easy access to burn in addition to what was already mentioned.
So necro offense is fine but sustain and utility need help. Is this 2012?
The few helpful things I could share:
1. Press your advantages. Necros do very well against engineers and can pressure elementalists quite a bit. So make sure to focus the classes who you can really hurt.
2. Most of your offensive tools are tools, not weapons. If you spam your skills they won’t do anything for you compared to timing it right. Save fears for heals or big attacks. Don’t spam corrupt boon when you see a bunch of yellow squares, make them into a big spike that can’t easily be removed. Same really goes for your defensive skills. A superb spectral walk will do so much for you compared to hitting it just for the life force gain.
3. Do everything you can to get life force. Someone dies off point? Hit them with staff 1 until they go down. Engineer turret sitting around on a point you’re decqpping? Staff 1 more. Don’t forgrt scepter 3 when someone has tons of condis.
For the same reason inexperienced players are in ranked; anyone is free to go anywhere.
I am no longer soloing into ranked queue. Having fun again in unranked.
Nobody plays the patriots every game though. There aren’t that many dedicated teams playing GW2 for one thing. And they also aren’t all on at any given time. There has always been tons of bad matches and there always will be because this game has a small population base and they can only tweak the matchmaking so much.
I had situations yesterday that was very similar to being the jets and playing the patriots game after game. I tried spacing out my queues to avoid the groups I was being queued against, but I still played them, and I don’t have much business playing with ESL level groups as a SoloQer. I don’t think playing games at 36-500, 111-500 are fun, and they shouldn’t happen.
As much as I disliked some details about the old system, it didnt result in games this lopsided this often. So of course I’m going to voice that, because if they continue to push some adjustments it would make my experience better, and clearly I’m not alone. I originally thought it was alright, got a really rough game which, whatever, that happens, and continued to play getting matched against the same groups, or with players who are so oblivious that it brings my team down.
So which is it, should I be playing against competitive scene level players, or with people that don’t even bother to execute the most basic actions of guild wars 2 pvp? Because both happened to me in one night. Pretty inconsistent matchmaking.
You all know some of you have to lose…. we can’t all be the New England Patriots k we need some Jets fodder.
The issue is being the Jets and playing the patriots every game.
Having the same experiences as OP. Just lost a game to either a 4 man or 2 2 man groups while with all solos. Lost multiple games last night in similar scenarios. It’s frustrating enough for me to not want to keep giving this many more chances.
You have lost games because of half premades.
I’ve lost games having such a noob premades on my team.
I really would like to have only solo pvpers while i do solo queue.From my experience it seems like half premades are made off amateur pvpers, that’s why they “need to gather up”. Dedicated pvpers do it solo or in full teams.
Still, even amateurs, they have slight advantage being in a party, over these soloq people.
Not sure how you came to the conclusion that real pvpers are either alone or solo.
The groups I faced in the last 24 hours included individuals at the top of the leaderboard, as well as members of some of the top few teams in NA. Then, to the OP’s point, I am matched with players on my team running things like all signet necro, people who were literally lost near the tranq buff in temple (minutes before the buff was there), people triple capping points, and other mistakes I won’t bother to describe but we’re quite bad all in ranked queue.
Every time I see it being “Team Roe” I’m super concerned, especially when I can tell that the other team has groups and mine does not.
Having the same experiences as OP. Just lost a game to either a 4 man or 2 2 man groups while with all solos. Lost multiple games last night in similar scenarios. It’s frustrating enough for me to not want to keep giving this many more chances.
I would advise against trait ing fear duration on a power build over soul marks etc.
Basically this. You’re giving up a lot of really strong power traits for the fear damage, and without condi damage as a stat it’s just not enough damage to make up the loss.
I made some posts earlier about how the matchmaking wasn’t so bad – I take it back.
I had horrid games today. Literally going up against some of the top players in NA, who are teamed up and all of whom are an even match for me at least, while I’m the top player on my team full of people I don’t recognize. Lost 500 to 36 or so, and faced some of those same groups and players for match after match. You can’t afford to have players who don’t know what they are doing in matches like that, but it happened quite a bit. And insult to injury, I lost multiple points on the leaderboard for it. If there is a 100% chance I lose and we are getting spawncamped for minutes at a time, I now have to lose points? Kind of a joke.
The matchmaking is weak. I’d rather wait for good matches than get pushed in with whatever rabbit rank also happened to push the queue button at the same time as me. I can see why others are upset after that experience.
Didn’t think about this, but it probably is causing a huge problem with people queuing ranked with some alt they never play. I would think hotjoin makes the most sense but I’m not sure that’s where people are going anymore.
My post was directed at that argument more than you, personally. Not trying to criticize you as a poster.
If the forum isn’t enough proof to you, look at the meta. If tanky necro worked it wouldn’t be some niche experimental build. It would have a place on metabattle, which houses every half decent build.
I’m fully aware of the potential of tanky specced power builds, I run full soldiers in wvw and it works nicely and can even handle itself in the rare small scale fight I have with that build. But I don’t see it succeeding in PVP at a decent level because it lacks true sustain and spike damage, as well as mobility and support. In WVW it is functional where ambient creatures are plentiful, I can rock ascended gear, and use food, guard stacks, etc. but not in pvp where deaths are earned more than an environmental fact and you start every match with no life force.
im getting double thieves several times in a row now, and zero thieves on the other team. when I get double thieves I know im going to lose for sure.
LOL . . . . or double mesmer same . . .
I had 3 thieves on my team in one match, with me on necro and a mesmer. We lost. That was the worst this feature has been for me so far.
Maybe he means nemesis? Nemesis suggested something like terror, that worked out for us pretty well. Not sure who else it could be, unless he just means johnathan sharp.
You can still play how you want, dailies aren’t required.
Since the new patch the matches seem to be the same quality as before all the changes, even as a soloQer.
You, and everyone stating the same thing are out of ya’ll’s minds lol. I, and a lot of the people I talk to are getting straight kitten d in both Unranked and Ranked. My games are generally the same. I’m either on the team that has a premade ( -1 or 2 ) and wins, or on a team that is composed of SoloQ’ers like myself. So far, all have been losses/wins by landslides.
Thank you for your sharing your subjective experience while giving your subjective opinion on my subjective experience.
I have 8 ranked matches so far, only 2 have been landslides, which isn’t far off from where it used to be. Like I mentioned, since the 12/16 patch, it seems to be alright so far, but it’s only been a day. Before that I was having a hard time against premades and whatnot too, or getting players that triple capped points on my team, but so far it seems alright.
In my opinion on zerk amulet+spectral walk+wurm+armor even with 6/6/x/x/x can outlive any class in outnumbered scenarios (stealthing every 10 seconds is something else)
Has any of you ever played spectral sustain builds in pvp? We have lots of protection, and the ds regen in these builds is ridiculous. Spectral builds with FitG are very very hard to kill, in fact its easier to survive in 1v2 than 1v1 sometimes. (WoP) and energy sigils take care of endurance.
On topic my 2 cents, what OP stated is absolutely correct, and the balance for hp sustain is pretty annoying, the possible OPness is around the corner.
But I really hope someone is working on it, cause 6k every 25sec with a big chance to interrupt is pretty bad. And as if allowing vampirics in ds would do a hell lot, you would likely only get a max 1,6k heal from transfusion against 5 enemies every 40 seconds.Any spectral sustain build is bad. You might be tanky (arguably no more tanky then engis or eles and with significantly less damage), but your teammates won’t get anything from you because you have no group support. The reason gaurds and eles are taken isn’t because they can live longer than anyone else on point, it is because they can make their team live longer on point. Necros can’t do that.
Furthermore, if you are running zerker amulet with 3 stun breaks and fitg your doing really subpar damage, and at that point you should either switch amulets or bring a thief, ele, mesmer or ranger to actually kill someone quickly. I also don’t believe your claim that the rough build you said will last longer in a 1vs2 than any other build in zerker. If you could do that while still dealing good damage, teams would be taking power necros in there team comps to sit at home.
Nah if you wear zerk amulet your damage isnt subpar, you won’t spike as much but you will be hell tankier compared to any other zerk class. Keep in mind traits are all offensive except FitG(6/2/0/0/6), and you can even skip FitG(6/6/x/x/2). The argument is survival of zerk necro in outnumbered fights compared to other classes (zerk), of which only guard and warrior come close, not who can burst the best.
This is the actual spectral build i’ve personally used(can be tweaked for more damage), try it and see for yourself. Works with celestial and battle sigils or zerk.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHRhG2IHN12WcjvN83oYXQkaAUBiczHqXvNLA-TJxHwACOJAn3fYZZAAPBAA
Also about what teams do, people discover new things all the time, for example condi ranger was recently used effectively by a top pvp player not too far back, while everyone said how condi ranger is useless in teamfights, loses to other condi classes, the general ranger sucks cryout. Engi has other ways of defending home node rather than facetanking, which in my opinion we can do better (dont get me wrong, engi is more effective at keeping/decap). Also there is a dhuumfire spectral condi variation, which isnt too effective, so spectral doesnt always mean 100% powah build:P.
What this seems to be doing to me is comparing a hypothetical necro build taking full defensive utilities and some defensive traits, compared to regular meta builds and asking which is tankier. I’m sure you can make a shout heal warrior and throw a zerk ammy on it, too, or some weird guardian build. It’s apples to oranges, in my opinion.
As has already been pointed out, we can’t bunker. That is all the proof you need that our sustain is lacking, not comparing zerker builds.
Thanks for the support. I’ve submitted my application. Now to see who ANet chooses.
Good. I can think of a few others who would be good choices but it’s good to know that we have some solid options out there for us.
Since the new patch the matches seem to be the same quality as before all the changes, even as a soloQer.
Nope. We used to be able to weapon swap while in DS though.
What class can use a zerk amulet and survive outnumbered fights for longer than a necro? How can one be Glassier than a necro ever be?
The two classes that come to mind are mesmer and theif, but I’m not sure running away counts as lasting.
The only classes that strike me as being incapable of lasting as long as a necro when all are wearing zerk amulets are engineer and elementalist. But every other class with zerk stats can be at least as survivable as a necro is, I would think. Given equal circumstances and skill, obviously.
And yet another useless thread full of people who don’t read other threads first. ALL “crap” (old Solo Q) maps will be removed on the 16th. We are in between seasons and nothing you do right now matters anyway. Matchmaking is turned off right now until the 16th as well. If you can’t handle a couple weeks of crap, then wait it out 1 more day for all the changes to take place. 100’s of threads made on the same subjects that don’t even matter; because these things you hate are only in place for 2 weeks.
Just trying to figure out if this is ironic or not?
If you had read the other threads perhaps you would understand the problem.
The problem is not that matchmaking is turned off and suddenly on the 16th all will be well in the GW world.
The problem is competing agendas. Balanced games and wait times.
Once you have read the other threads and have a more meaningful contribution please come back and share some more wisdom.
Besides the fact that you have NO IDEA what it will be like; fine or broken, all these posts are a waste. Once the changes ACTUALLY go into effect, then you can test and complain/ congratulate. They said it has all was turned off and therefore broken on “purpose” until launch. You have no idea what the wait times will be or if it will be balanced BECASUE IT WASN’T LAUNCHED YET. That’s like saying the Cake tastes horrible while you are mixing the ingredients into the bowl still. Wait for it to be finished, then make your remarks, good or bad. Your point is invalid.
They increased the average queue time goal, so I would say all of these posts served a valid purpose.
I’ve been on plenty of pugs that have beaten decent premades, had a pug the other day and we took out Teef Teef Teef Teefs team pretty handedly. I really don’t think the matchmaking is as bad as everyone says.
I’ve had some good matches but I’ve had some pretty terribly bad matches too. Definitely getting matched in ranked play with people who don’t PvP, matched against premades, etc. I’ve had some really great matches to your point, but I also had some downright awful ones. Hopefully the new matchmaking makes the difference.
Except doing profession-wide nerfs(amulets/sigils) is most certainly not the way to do it. Again, only 2/3 professions really abuse this. Why screw over other classes who don’t?
Aren’t those the same professions who are recognized as being top tier right now? If 5/6 professions don’t use these based off your own post, would changing those things even effect them?
/snip/
I think this accurately summarises what needs to happen to eles. They weren’t a problem prior to runes and amulet change, so the root of the problem should be there.
I think Taino’s post also accurately describes why you don’t want to just nerf elementalists by referring to dhuumfire. Condi necro’s lost a lot of utility and other bleeds because of dhuumfire, and after it was nerfed too, the class is worse off for it. Let’s avoid these roller coaster nerf sessions and try to address the root cause.
I would rather see a nerf to might stacking and buffs to boon hate before taking a strong class and making it inferior. Shave the might and buff other specs. The meta could use a shakedown anyway.
this is the exact thing all celestial ele’s are saying.
phantaram and many other ele players (ones that aren’t too blinded by their profession bias) have made it painfully obvious that the issue here isn’t celestial/might stacking (although they play their part in the equation) because if it was, every build that was designed to stack might would be dominating like celestial ele is.
it’s been made clear that the issue is primarily that of ele as a profession, with celestial/mightstacking only playing a minor role, if it was any different the same gear combination of celestial + hoelbrak + battle sigils would make every profession using it overpowered, which obviously isn’t the case. suggesting otherwise is simply ignorance.
ele is 75% of the issue. celestial/mightstacking is only 25% of it. ele as a profession needs to be nerfed.
I don’t play cele ele.
I think it’s more clear that the issue is celestial amulet and might stacking when you have a high percent of players (and all eles) in top teams running these set ups. I do think there are some ways that d/d eles could be toned down, especially in their sustain, and they generally have a lot of tools in their tool belt.
But that being said, I enjoy fighting d/d eles and if they get nerfed to oblivion I’ll be sad about it. Changes need to be strategic to not ruin the class, you can’t just say it’s mostly the ele class so Anet should drop the nerfhammer on them, because as far as I can tell there isn’t much evidence that such a statement is true.
I was having a pretty decent time soloQing until I consistently ran into premades groups over the weekend. And really it wasn’t so bad except that it seems I’m still being grouped with players who don’t get the game mode, and in that situation having 1 or 2 people who cant really contribute is all the difference. I had 6 games vs full premades teams just yesterday, and only 1 game with a 3 man team on my side as a solo player.
I really think full teams need to wait longer and play each other, and some change to rewards for facing a premades should be considered. It’s definitely has the capacity to be less fun even than it used to be. This was why I mostly played SoloQ instead of soloing into teamQ.
I’ve seen the suggestion before, I think I heard it on one of the podcasts? Either way it’s a great idea and makes a lot of sense. There is so much synergy just waiting to be made useful with some common sense changes.
I really don’t think necromancers need a rework, which is good, because I don’t think we’ll ever see a rework on the scale that some in this thread may want.
I think if you reduce some cooldowns across the board, add some finishers on skills, buff dark fields, and buff some other skills like signet of undeath and corrupt boon, we’d be in a better place. Otherwise the more “reworking” types of things we could use are healing in death shroud, and some sort of unique group buffs, like shared siphons, for example.
I would love to see all of those things done; I think it could be really fun to have a siphoning wellomancer that is healing their whole group and blasting dark fields for a dark aura that siphons with attacks and upon being attacked, all the while working through DS. If they made a new blood trait that shared siphons, and merged the well siphon trait with well cooldowns, you could have a ton of group support with 8 trait points (thinking protection on wells and well of blood, at least).
(edited by Roe.3679)
I would rather see a nerf to might stacking and buffs to boon hate before taking a strong class and making it inferior. Shave the might and buff other specs. The meta could use a shakedown anyway.
^ agreed. May also want to add #4: Well of Blood. And even #5, blood fiend. Really right now consume conditions is the only heal with the slightest of synergy with death shroud since you can’t remove any conditions in DS.
Personally I think you are just being selfish and stubborn if you always use balance as an excuse to argue against changes. You can always balance around changes if necessary after all.
Hear, hear.
And let’s also not pretend we didn’t get healing in DS. We do. It’s not great we know but it’s a start.
Unholy Sanctuary is not a start, it’s an insult.
In all my posts i havent said they shouldn’t give us ANY healing in DS I just think alot of people are getting out of hand with it.
It’s the opposite actually. As of now, necro healing is basically non existent. Allowing any source of healing (and I mean all of it) to go through DS is but a minor step towards bringing us to the level of all other classes.
Beyond that we should actually get additional healing sources and/or buffs to our current sources of healing.And I’ve been doing pretty decently even queueing up solo which apparently has been an issue for people. Hell yesterday we had a 4v5 game that we actually won, was a first for me.
Yes, I’m sure you won a 4v5 because your necro sustain was so good… not! Your opponents sucked, that’s all.
Please don’t misunderstand what I said or attempt an attitude with me, I don’t do it to you.
I didn’t mean we won because of my poc terrormancers sustain is so good. It was just an awesome feeling and I felt like sharing. It was more of a self reflection maybe I got better I don’t know but I see a lot of negativity even though I really do feel like Necro has a spot in the current meta at least in pvp and wvw, I cant comment on pve.
I see this negative attitude with every class especially in pvp with the merging of teamq and soloq and it’s going to be like this for a bit until the old soloq heroes learn to rotate and play more team friendly builds.
But you being an experienced necro…. i just can’t see how you can argue we should have access to all healing while in DS…. I mean I main a necro it would only help…. and I’m still against most of it.
Now with that being said why don’t we turn this thread into something more constructive. As I’ve said before I’m not against giving necros SOME healing in deathshroud.
My solution would be to change unholy sanctuary into something that allows all healing in deathshroud if it was possible. I think that would be perfectly acceptable since taking that trait would nerf your damage.
I was never worried about a tanky necromancer that could be healed by his teammates. I was worried about a necro that was using zerk, carrion, rabid that was all of a sudden a CC spamming death machine who just needs an ele, guard, or engi with him to be pretty much unkillable.
You have to give up a lot of damage to take any of these sustain traits, which is a big reason as to why it’s more likely to work.
Plus, that necro doling out damage and CC with a bunker’s help… Sounds a lot like engis and eles now. You’re only going to do that with skill anyway. That type of teamwork and skill should be rewarded, because right now it’s just a bunker trying to heal a necro and failing, and our traits don’t work in any worthwhile way.
The queue pops so fast now (not that this is entirely good) that it doesn’t seem to matter much.
It does have something to do with the strength of necros as it also has to do with balance regardless if anyone of you admit it. Just because it “makes sense” doesn’t mean it should be implemented as I’m sure it would cause a whole lot of balance issues.
I seriously don’t think that it would. Regen doesn’t offer anything in terms of burst healing, and it’s mostly not effective unless you’re speccing for it.
We all know necros have issues wih sustain, and if you go full out vampire necro right now it’s totally subpar. You should be able to spec a tanky necro and if you could heal through DS, you could with current traits.
(edited by Roe.3679)
Prestige mode would be cool. Great idea.
I thought this was going to be about how the new Sith in Star Wars is named Kylo.
I soloQ pretty regularly and as long as I’m on my main with the established MMR, my matches are fine. I’ve seen some obvious teams but the thing is that in most of those situations I had a team with me as well.
I would really recommend that you check your own team as well as the enemy team if you think you’re playing a pre-made. Plus, team =/= talent.
Pretty awesome vid, I think I want to try this build. Seems fun!
I obviously don’t know where you’re coming from, but I’m not sure t1, SOS and DB are as zergy as you might be expecting. You can play in tier 1 and never zerg, too.
Can’t go wrong with a guardian, wanted in every game mode and it’s pretty fun to play with hammer and greatsword.
Warriors and elementalists are also good bets.
stuff
If this was in response to my post, I just said look at, not nerf. I just don’t want them nerfing classes willy nilly. Their track record with that isn’t the best and I don’t want elementalists ruined when it’s perhaps not the only issue, or even the main issue.
P.s. I don’t play elementalist.
Really hope they look at cele amulet and might stacking before nerfing classes.
I considered it, but I procrastinate too much. May give it a shot anyway.
You came to mind to me when I read this.
I had a lot of fast queues last night and there were some ugly matches as a result. I would prefer not to play against players who seemed outright new to the game, and it’s not good for the pvp population if they are going against dragon ranks, etc.
I obviously don’t speak for others but I’m willing to wait a few minutes if I get good matches out of it.
Clearly I don’t know enough about he new system. But this is an interesting point. If you have a 10% or less chance of losing you’ll never score 200 points on courtyard.
Courtyard should perhaps only be an option for really closely rated teams.
I don’t think you lose any points for a loss.
Well you forgot the worm which is actually our lowest cool down stun break
All of our stun breaks give us benefits besides just breaking a stun and they are all traitable as well
Should spectral walk be lower cool down? probably but I think the rest of them are actually very strong
Plague Signet could also use some love too
Wurm is a shorter cooldown, but it’s the only stunbreak I’m aware of (could be wrong) that needs to be pre-cast. Also the only stunbreak you can kill.
The best thing I ever did to improve was really try to analyze my own play when I lost a lot of games. What did I do wrong? What was wrong with my build? How can I change my style, spec, or anything else?
Some other advice is generally trying to secure stomps and rezzes, fighting on point, and knowing when to hold and when to push points are huge difference makers.