Guild Wars 2

GhOst.4019:

Roe.3679:

You said axe is more, when it is actually equal, that’s why it isn’t accurate.

It’s equal? Stop doing the math in your head, because it isn’t helping your argument. Grab a calculator if need. 1111 is NOT 10% more than 1048. Let me help you 1048 * .10=104.8 +1048= 1152.8 which is GREATER than and not equal to 1111. Once again, that damage in Axe is higher with mastery.

Ok champ, I guess averages are a hard concept for you. Axe mastery mainhand damage is from 924-1152, average hit is 1038.

Staff is 985 to 1111, average hit is 1048. Looks like staff’s average hit is higher, and life transfer is much stronger on staff than axe.

What was that you were saying about math again?

GhOst.4019:

You can’t “nerf” something that was not mean to be there. That is called a fix. The reason all your skills get reset on start is to be on the same plain. You can still get the 20% at the start just like other classes pre-buffing as you stated. You will then be on CD for that skill just like every other class that used theirs. That is what now makes it even. If they use a skill it is then on CD…and now, so will yours. Wait for match to start…pop it real quick and there is your money. You can then walk in with more LF and be on CD. It’s only 40 seconds CD so you will get it back shortly into the fight as it takes 20 sec to get to a point anyway. No other class could use a skill and keep the benefits of it without using a CD at start of the match.

I see your point, but your last sentence isn’t entirely true. Many classes could get some benefit by switching weapons before the match started. Additionally, whether you want to think this was or was not intended (it doesn’t matter either way), necromancers were balanced around having this life force at start since it was this way for over 2 years.

Plus I find your solution to be pretty weak (not saying anything about you, personally, but the solution), as I have to spend an escape to have life force, where I could otherwise have an escape at a critical time and get that life force when using it anyway. So ultimately I find it more useful to save the cooldown for a juke, but then I am left with no life force to start the match. This doesn’t solve the problem, just shifts it. Before I could have an escape and life force, hence calling it a nerf.

GhOst.4019:

In all honesty it is REALLY hard to carry a team of baddies in any class lol. At the end of the day you are still 1. Mainly, to be able to carry you need to be able to 1v1 and 2v1 most of the time. You need this because, most likely you will have to take a point (normally far) and hold it by yourself to keep the score ticking upward. They will never give you DS at the start back. It was never suppose to be there in the beginning. I don’t feel it is hard to gain LF at the begging of the match at all. Just a couple attacks away from being half full. Would it be nice…hell ya lol. That is why they took it away, because no other class gets a bonus to their “special” abilities at the start. We have one of the highest health pools in game, they won’t give you 20% more just for showing up. That is basically the logic behind it all. If we start Necro with 20% LF at beginning, then every gets a 20% health bonus at start. Then what would the difference be?

Most other classes can use their special abilities right at the start, and actually get access to their main defenses at all times.

It’s not a massive nerf to necromancers, but it is a nerf, no matter how easy you feel it is to regain life force.

Keybind a stunbreak. Problem solved.

I 100% agree with OP. That being said, I was in a pug group yesterday that faced a full 5 man guild group on courtyard and absolutely wrecked them, 450-0. Then later I played with a 3 man group in unranked vs another 3 man group (both teams were full) and it was the worst I was stomped since the changes, despite being with a team.

My point is that the MMRs and skill really matter even though it is team vs pugs.

LianaEarthAngel.9687:

what teh hell is the POINT of map vote if the system picks the map for itself anyway…many times I see a winning map get 4 out of 2 points and the system stil lpicks map with 2 pts????

You’re upset that a one in three chances outcome actually happened? It’s not like it’s a small chance.

Cenzuo.6328:

sminkiottone.6972:

I still don’t understand why you need to see other people mmr, I can see a practical reason to see your own mmr, but not others. If it gives us some benefits that outweight the possibility of being harassed then I’m all in, but untill someone gives me at least 1 good reason I don’t see it being a good idea.

The point of showing everyone’s mmr, is the reason other competitive games have some sort of visible mmr (WoW, Dota 2 etc), which is to compare yourself skill wise and to rank yourself against others. It’s a competitive statistic that tells other how good you are (or atleast how good the mm system thinks you are).

Another reason would be to justify your win/loss. If my team losses badly but i see their mmr was higher than ours, then that can help explain our loss, rather than just having to accept it.

And if your team lost, you can check the worst players MMR from your team and whisper them about how bad they are!

Little sarcasm there, but this already happens. I’ve had games where I do everything right as far as I can tell, fight on points, get kills, etc, and I’ve still been whispered saying I’m bad from dudes who die pushing a bunkered far, die off point, etc. That attitude exists now, this change would make it so much worse.

This isn’t the same issue, but over the weekend I was playing an unranked match, and during the match a queue popped, and 2 players from the other team left. I asked the map if everyone got it and it wasn’t just me. It wasn’t hotjoin – I haven’t even played hotjoin since the new patch.

One vote equals one chance. The only time it’s a sure bet is when every vote is for the same map.

GhOst.4019:

Roe.3679:

GhOst.4019:

NeXeD.3042:

Staff base attack damage is higher so switching to staff before using deathshroud you get a little boost in damage.

If you are using Axe Mastery that is the higher boost going into DS. 10% damage increase on Life Transfer and LB’s is a lot of extra damage.

Kain Francois.4328:

How is Staff stronger for Death Shroud? Is there a trait that makes it so?

No there isn’t . Here is the order: Staff> Axe> Dagger (Without Mastery)
Axe> Staff >Dagger (With mastery)

Weapon strength
With Mastery: Axe > Staff >Dagger
Stats of weapons effecting DS LB:
Staff Strength: 985-1111
Axe Strength: 857-1048
Axe With Mastery Strength: 924-1152 (Lower bottom end than staff, Higher top end)
Dagger: 924-981

I don’t believe that’s all accurate. Staff is equal to axe with axe mastery in DS, not less. And I also believe that axe only affects skills 1-3 in DS, so life transfer will do less damage with traited axe than staff.

How can you not say that is accurate? Look at your weapons…the highest one will scale for the most damage. These are exact weapon stats …. Maybe it doesn’t scale with Life Transfer (I could have been wrong) but LB is the main focus anyway.

You said axe is more, when it is actually equal, that’s why it isn’t accurate.

Since most if not all power necros are glassy except in WvW, your main escape is like playing the game of thrones. You win or you die. No escape can really buy you enough space to get you safely away from combat or force the enemy to drop target, so it may buy you some time from melee but realistically won’t save you except in rare occasions where a fight is that close and the moments the juke buys you are the difference. But even then I’m not sure I would call it an escape, it really is just a juke.

GhOst.4019:

NeXeD.3042:

Staff base attack damage is higher so switching to staff before using deathshroud you get a little boost in damage.

If you are using Axe Mastery that is the higher boost going into DS. 10% damage increase on Life Transfer and LB’s is a lot of extra damage.

Kain Francois.4328:

How is Staff stronger for Death Shroud? Is there a trait that makes it so?

No there isn’t . Here is the order: Staff> Axe> Dagger (Without Mastery)
Axe> Staff >Dagger (With mastery)

Weapon strength
With Mastery: Axe > Staff >Dagger
Stats of weapons effecting DS LB:
Staff Strength: 985-1111
Axe Strength: 857-1048
Axe With Mastery Strength: 924-1152 (Lower bottom end than staff, Higher top end)
Dagger: 924-981

I don’t believe that’s all accurate. Staff is equal to axe with axe mastery in DS, not less. And I also believe that axe only affects skills 1-3 in DS, so life transfer will do less damage with traited axe than staff.

Harbinger.8637:

You can say this about any profession.

Play with a guild/friends. Soloq is just a bad time.

I agree, but with the lack of escapes and weak stomp/Rez support compared to other classes, necro can’t really carry a team like some classes/specs can.

It comes with the territory though, as the opposite end is that on a great team, a necromancer is a nightmare due to having great support and loads of life force.

I’d be willing to chat in game if you want to add me. Mail or whatevs, I’ll teach what I can. Same goes for anyone else maybe reading this post.

I run the same power build as I do in conquest, except I play it a little differently. Once someone goes down I drop all my AOE on them in hopes to swing the fight early. I also lich much earlier since it seems I’m even more likely to be targeted first, and most people tend to run from it instead of engage a lich and 4 teammates.

But overall I feel that power necro really shines in courtyard so far. Hooray GWEN meta!

Edit: to actually answer the OP I take 2 wells and spectral armor.

Ryan.9387:

What is the roster for abjured?

Phantaram, ele
Wakkey, ele
Magic Toker, thief
Ostrich eggs, engi
Five gauge, engi

That’s the team that played. They also run with Caed (thief) and noscoc (necro).

GhOst.4019:

Laserbolt.6731:

Axe and well of suffering = huge damage from a power necro. No? And at 600 distance at that.

Agreed. Not sure why people say Axe is the weakest weapon. Axe is dominant and I take it 100% of the time over staff. Staff is for condies…I believe you are a power necro (Don’t use a condi weapon). I chuckle inside when someone tells me they are a powermancer and they are holding a staff. Brb while I go hit someone for 10k+ with Axe 2. 15k Axe2 against glass cannons and some of you tell him to use staff because you have a little more ranged reach. Lol please. Use the axe ….you won’t be disappointed.

You loose valuable traits by using Axe mastery?? LOL? You are a powermancer…you want damage…. Axe mastery also carries into DS and Lich if you had your Axe equipped before going in. That is a TON of extra damage in both those modes.

Axe is mathematically the weakest weapon, plus it gives little utility. Staff gives just as much damage in DS, and I’m pretty sure it doesn’t effect Lich, but I’m not positive. And you don’t need to lose chill of death for it, either, or the poison, fear, and condi transfer.

Plus that 15k you’re talking about is negated almost entirely with a dodge, or running through the necro because axe requires that positioning.

To me, anything I can do with axe I can do better with dagger or DS. There’s just no situation it excels in.

When I was first getting into ranked pvp I played a few games as MM. You can do pretty well holding a point and if your bone minions cooperate, do some pretty good damage.

But in bigger team fights, your minions go down fast, and then you dont have a whole lot to offer. I stopped playing the spec when a shortbow thief aggro’d all my minions off point, killed them all around a corner, and proceeded to wreck me.

So the moral of the story is, it lives by AI and dies by AI, and AI will only take you so far.

I was thinking a reason that you are seeing way different skill levels in rated play is that now, it’s just as easy to click on ranked play as it is to join hotjoin. Before they were seperate, and entering the queue was a longer and more deliberate process. Now you probably have people clicking compete who maybe aren’t ready for it.

I take VP in nearly every build because it seems to be such a boost to survivability. I consider it a main trait to my power build, though. I wouldn’t go without it.

MethaneGas.8357:

It’s actually really fun. It reminds me of WvW a lot and promotes a lot of different playstyles. Of course you may not do as well with your build designed to keep a point… so have a courtyard build. For example… if people actually swapped to support shout guard and support shout warrior… you have a solid foundation for a 5v5 right there.

The only real downside to it is that people keep respawning and there is no “break” when people die. It makes it hard for a team to recover once they lose one person. That being said, the team I was on last night won a match and we were behind a LOT. So it’s more than possible to turn it around. Also, if a warrior brings a banner, then when your ally downs, your team will actually get STRONGER when they use banner. Perma might+fury. Coming from WvW, I don’t find it zergy at all… you just gotta know how to position yourself in these fights. It’s not bad at all to run off to the side if you have 1-2 people chasing you… I’ve had several fights where 2 people just chased me to the side on my Necro. I ended up dead but the other 4v3 going on at the same time ensured we won.

This sounds really awesome. I haven’t had that experience yet myself, though.

Sunshine.5014:

Booms.2594:

Because they lose 2v1s and double cap points and rotate into 3v1’s and solo bosses while we’re losing fights.

+1

This pretty much everything I hope newbies learn before they join a ranked match.

Constantly pushing a bunkered far is another.

Aeroxe had a great post, but I do think there are some things that the newest players do that makes them stick out.

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

Don’t jinx it mate :/

Don’t be silly. They can’t stop us from getting life force from the windows and treb

I agree with everything Celtus wrote, except I would say unable to switch characters is a good thing (for me, anyway), and pre-buffing change was bad (for me).

I also think the ready up button being meaningful now is cool, since it can start the match earlier.

Overall I’m on the fence about the matchmaking, I would like to see that tightened up a bit. I wouldn’t mind waiting another minute or 2 for better matches, but the more I played yesterday the better my matches were. But at first they were all landslides.

Maybe it’s poor matchmaking, but every match I’ve had on courtyard has been secure a kill or 2, then farm the team that started poorly by zerging them down. It’s fun for the winning team, and awful for the losing team. Really no way to come back easily after you’re getting spawncamped.

NeXeD.3042:

Use minions. Is there another forum for non English speaking individuals?

That’s what he’s talking about. Apparently you can’t kill minions at the start anymore.

I really don’t think that the GH armor should be handed out the way it has been outlined. If they want it to be a real reward with meaning, it shouldn’t go to people based off the leaderboards. Base it off of the 20 best win percentages with 500 games played or something like that.

Jelzouki.4128:

Roe.3679:

Jelzouki.4128:

Bhawb.7408:

Rym.1469:

No. 6-0 utility places HAVE to be reserved for future Death Shroud skill expanding.

Non-DS utility cooldowns should have their counters above the utility skill bar.

Having more skills added to DS is a huge power creep, one I hope never happens and realistically probably won’t.

I disagree, they should be reserved for more deathshroud skills and your claim that it is power creep is unfair because you cannot judge its effectiveness until it has been put into place, under any circumstances.

Inventing new skills where there were none is power creep, not sure how you can’t see that.

It would be nice if this change were put in that could also somehow make signets work in death shroud as well.

So new Grandmaster traits aren’t power creep but skills are?
Increasing the damage and velocity of rapid fire while at 1500 range is not power creep?
Power creep is not power creep. Power creep is an excuse for fear mongering.

Rapid fire was a buff to a class and spec that needed it. So in a way it’s power creep, yes, except to something with low power. And as Drarnor explained, new grandmasters are horizontal progression (and almost every new trait is underpowered and unused).

Iason Evan.3806:

Roe.3679:

Isn’t there some sort of fractal currency? I could see if it gave that fractal currency, that, over time, could be used on skins. But I don’t think it should be one skin per completion, though.

There isn’t and that is precisely the issue with having a Fractal Weapon Track. It’d have to be RNG base and the MF for PvP boxes would have to be exempt from this track to have it act like Fractals do. Some of us(me included) have done hundreds of Fractals and still haven’t gotten the weapons we want, but have gotten a bunch of one skin. That used to be OK before the wardrobe change. Now that the wardrobe is here though, multiple of the same weapon is pointless because once we unlock a skin we have it for every toon. The Fractal weapons are living in the past and have been since the first feature patch this year and ArenaNet has completely left it unaddressed. I understand why PvP players want access to the Fractal weapons, but there are tons of issues with doing it the right way and ArenaNet has a total refusal to address it. Heck, they even said that there were going to be Fractal weapon boxes at one point and then they abandoned it and refuse to go into why. It’s immensely frustrating that the drop system for Fractal weapons is still living in 2013 and we are almost done with 2014 which is a very different game.

Ahh that makes sense. If it is literally all RNG to get these skins then it doesn’t make sense to introduce a for sure way to get them that isn’t the main game mode.

^ a highly skilled player in a highly organized team should be rewarded with healing, not limited by DS. I think if anything it makes the point for this to be considered, not a reason to shelf it.

I think at very least this should be something that has different balance in the pvp and PVE/WvW realms, if WvW is a big enough concern to stop it from happening.

Isn’t there some sort of fractal currency? I could see if it gave that fractal currency, that, over time, could be used on skins. But I don’t think it should be one skin per completion, though.

NeXeD.3042:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

NeXeD.3042:

Let’s allow poc rp terrormancers to be burst healed by their teammates while in DS sounds like good balance.

Because Mirrored Anguish Mesmers popping Distortion can’t be? What about Elixer S engies? Signet of Stone Rangers? Guardians using Shelter?

Literally no other defense in the game denies allies burst healing. Only Necros have this issue.

The necro can exit deathshroud at any time, can you exit distortion, elixir s, signet of stone, shelter, mist form?

I get the frustration, I just know that allowing necros healing in deathshroud would be OP I’d everything else in game is the same.

I’m not the greatest necro, but holy kitten if you let my teammates burst heal me and include the hot effects anything other than 3v1 against the necro and he’s got a legitimate shot.

How much healing do you think is happening when you’re in DS? I can assure you that it isn’t enough for a necro to tank 3 people.

Jelzouki.4128:

Bhawb.7408:

Rym.1469:

No. 6-0 utility places HAVE to be reserved for future Death Shroud skill expanding.

Non-DS utility cooldowns should have their counters above the utility skill bar.

Having more skills added to DS is a huge power creep, one I hope never happens and realistically probably won’t.

I disagree, they should be reserved for more deathshroud skills and your claim that it is power creep is unfair because you cannot judge its effectiveness until it has been put into place, under any circumstances.

Inventing new skills where there were none is power creep, not sure how you can’t see that.

It would be nice if this change were put in that could also somehow make signets work in death shroud as well.

mordran.4750:

Roe.3679:

You may want to stop comparing necros to thieves, since a necro with full Life force has 3 times the hit points of a thief.

Which does not help much because the thief can disengage at will because of the stupid way stealth works in this game. Good luck on resetting a fight with a necro

Wow it’s almost like necros and thieves are different classes with different strengths! That’s my point. Don’t compare them directly.

Your damage and CC is your defense if you’re running a glassy build. Otherwise spectral armor is your best defensive skill.

KingMango.9785:

Frenk.5917:

Am I the only one who understood exactly the contrary (“less than one thief equals to insta loss”) because of “1>thief”?

You’re not alone.

For less than the < looks like an L

Yeah it’s really just good players vs bad players. People put way too much emphasis on classes in soloQ.

OP, sounds like you get in teams with bad thieves. Doesn’t make all thieves bad.

Fresh air ele without a doubt. Most of it is also pretty hard to predict too.

You may want to stop comparing necros to thieves, since a necro with full Life force has 3 times the hit points of a thief. You can’t just cherry pick where necros fall behind thieves and ignore where necros are actually in a better spot. It’s out of context. If the class has issues you shouldn’t need direct comparisons to other skills as a reference. The only time that ever works is comparing hps or dps; when it’s the whole of the class.

Certain players posting on all of these necro threads need to stop being Chicken Littles and L2P. Necro is not in nearly as bad of shape in relation to other classes as are implied by some of these posts, and these posts distract from actual constructive necromancer issues.

What stops any of this from happening now?

Vicariuz.1605:

Roe.3679:

^ no idea how anyone is that unhappy about the upcoming patch. It was all good news to me.

Skyhammer is also not nearly as bad as people make it out to be, especially since the last update to skyhammer.

Then you clearly aren’t taking a good look at what’s about to hit. I’m not unhappy about the entire patch, just some very obvious flaws that are going to further hinder this game.

Feel free to elaborate. You wanted more game modes I guess? Or is it mostly all covered in your diatribe about skyhammer in your previous post?

Besides silly things like jumping to my death, I recently spent a lot of guild buying traits in PVE when I wanted them for pvp. I’ve also leveled 6 80s and geared them all with full exotic, but 3 of those 80s are almost entirely untouched since they were made, which was a waste of time and gold.

^ no idea how anyone is that unhappy about the upcoming patch. It was all good news to me.

Skyhammer is also not nearly as bad as people make it out to be, especially since the last update to skyhammer.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Booms.2594:

Josh Davis.6015:

The Glorious Hero’s Armor is a skill-based reward. I’d wager that the players who top the ladders are all skilled players in some regard.

If you don’t think they are, you have until Dec 2 to knock them out of the top 20.

10/20 soloq leaders dont even have 100 wins. some have less than 10. “skill players in some regard” lol

This is clearly false. Anyone can look at the leaderboards and see that no one in the top 25 on either NA or EU has less than 10 wins.

Although…I am wondering why someone with 13 wins and 15 losses is #15 in EU….

I’ve seen that happen, though. And currently there are a lot of people with few games in the top 20, even if it isn’t less than 10.

Tadsoul.6951:

allow healing in death shroud is what is needed
all trait, regen and most effect ie food, runes, minions I feel transfusion shouldn’t heal us actually because life transfer already restores life force and it says heals allies not us
allow healing from allies the amount here is up for discussion I personally feel like 100%
these are the biggest issues that need fixing

I think 100% healing from allies would be fine as well. How often do you really get healed from allies? I can only see this being troublesome in WvW, if at all. There aren’t enough healing bunkers in pvp for it to be meaningful there, plus a bunker heavy team doesn’t seem like a good team comp for a necro anyway. Are a few heals and regeneration going to break balance? I doubt it – if anything it would help our lack of sustain issue.

The way I see it, this is improving the pvp infrastructure, so new game modes would be more possible.

Could you imagine ranked death match, but with a 4v5? It’d be a wreck. These changes needed to happen and should cover almost everything needed so that new game modes is the only thing left to work on.

Rym.1469:

#6-#0 DS skills added, using Life Force as a resource, #1 can be boosted/alternated by consuming LF. Lower total amount of LF, highly boost LF generation, get some ideas for siphons from necro community.

Here, ANet.

We need death shroud reform, like this.

Not a redesign, though. Death shroud is imperfect but it’s not broken.

So much if not all of this applies to each and every class.

Another thing is it can’t exactly be gear based due to pvp being available to new players and low levels. It would need to be some version of customizable amulets to work at all.

As someone who changes builds befor a match from time to time, I’m glad I just have to change an amulet and not 14+ pieces of gear.