Condi does not have to trade off 3 stats for damage only 2. Power players have to take Power, Crit AND Crit Dmg (the now nerfed Ferocity). If condi builds had to go three stat and ANet eases up on the food, then parity would be achieved. As it is now any heavy DPS condi build either stacks toughness or vitality. They can stack both and take a relatively minor hit to overall DPS.
Condition duration, condition damage and precision equals 2 stats. Learn something new every day!
Condition duration isn’t a stat you can get in your armor/trinkets, and a number of builds don’t need any precision to deal good condition damage. It’s undeniable that condition builds give up little to no survivability while maintaining high dps.
However, a mix of bunker and power builds is still superior in group play from 5v5 upwards.
Giver’s stats have been in the game for some time, you should probably know about those. Additionally, power builds don’t need precision to do “good” damage, either, since soldiers builds have always out damaged dire builds.
Condi does not have to trade off 3 stats for damage only 2. Power players have to take Power, Crit AND Crit Dmg (the now nerfed Ferocity). If condi builds had to go three stat and ANet eases up on the food, then parity would be achieved. As it is now any heavy DPS condi build either stacks toughness or vitality. They can stack both and take a relatively minor hit to overall DPS.
Condition duration, condition damage and precision equals 2 stats. Learn something new every day!
Questions: do you still stream and if so, when?
Funny how there are concurrent threads complaining about thieves and condi bunkers when roaming.
The moderators should roll together these and all similar future threads into a “I should win all the time and anything that beats me is cheese!” mega thread.
Pretty sure the two mentioned are cheese though.
So anything effective and/or self sufficient is cheese?
Well they aren’t OP, so hopefully not anytime soon.
I had a guy in soloQ AFK because be identified an ele with a signet build and called them clueless, and declared the match over before it started. Interesting that I found this build and that this ele using the build was probably more in the know than most.
The problem isn’t with the condi directly, it’s the stacking or durations.
When you get stuck on the ground by a group of 20 people and cannot even move for over 10 seconds then you know the game balance is broken. And I’m not talking about walls and such, all those are fine. It’s the immobilize condition stacking to maximum that is the problem.
And the worse thing is that it was fine before! Then an Anet dev decided it would be fun for immobilize to stack.
You think you should be able to nullify the skills of 20 people? Also you didnt remove the condition for 10 seconds?
Pvp reward tracks give plenty of exotics.
Funny how there are concurrent threads complaining about thieves and condi bunkers when roaming.
Would really like this, thanks for posting your idea.
I pretty much only run a boonhate, corruption type build when I’m playing against a lot of engineers, since they are so very weak to conditions but otherwise can be a very strong class.
Otherwise it always feels like even when I wipe someone’s boons that they are back, and conditions are removed quickly. I know that isn’t necessarily true, but I don’t prefer the playstyle unless its working to my advantage.
I would sell it for sure. But I also don’t care about legendaries.
Thanks Roe! Just wondering, are those “minionmancer” builds viable? I’ve seen a few on my thief and they are worse than a mesmer when trying to target the right enemy.
I personally don’t think they have a place in WvW, but I suppose you could use them when roaming. I’m not a fan of minion builds, though, when some other people are.
If this is WvW, a standard 6/2/0/0/6 build will fit your needs. The general advice is to start with soldiers gear and work in berserker gear as you get comfortable, but it’s possible with some smart play to exist in a zerg in full zerker gear, or somewhere in between.
Utilities could be something like well of suffering, well of corruption and spectral walk to at least offer some mobility. But generally speaking we don’t have the escapability of any other class.
That being said, staying aware in a zerg keeps you alive more than your gear does.
WPs tend to be made by the more dominant, more populated servers. If there wasn’t a reasonable way to stop it. It would snowball, and then no one could ever have WPs because it would so heavily favor the more stacked server and need to be removed.
Or they could just balance it with a tap.
It’s still really strong, getting beat by a guardian doesn’t change that.
Necros are pretty OP, they can destroy engineers with one press of a button, its sad really.
That button would be?
Condition transfer after the engie is dumb enough to give necros a ton of ammo.
Condition engies can beat condition necros, but they have to not spike the conditions like they do against everyone else.
You say this but in reality the necro won’t die at all if you don’t apply enough pressure, if you just focus on applying 2 condi at a time, the necro is simply gonna just end up condi bombing you with their own condition which engineers again, cannot counter.
Its a lose either way, you hold out all your skills and necro end up crushing you because you do not pressure enough or you end up condi bombing him in which case you just end up getting yourself killed.
Necro also has more than one button to counter engi, Corrupt boon after engi reach 75% health and its usually auto win. signet of spite and/or some random fear proc on top of spamming all your marks and necro wins
Its really disgusting how such a class is still not nerfed. You can faceroll your keyboard as necro, make all the mistakes in the world, where as i have to play flawlessly the entire way through.
You can even ask vee wee #1 engineer and she would agree that necro needs nerf.
You could replace necro with “engi” and some of the necro skills with “turrets,” and your almost entirely recreate how people QQ about engineers.
I don’t see how thats relevant to what im discussing tho, if you want to complain about turret engineer and advocate for nerfs ( which i am all for btw) then go make another thread about it.
I’m saying, your post looks a lot like QQ and not at all like making a valid point.
Necros are pretty OP, they can destroy engineers with one press of a button, its sad really.
That button would be?
Condition transfer after the engie is dumb enough to give necros a ton of ammo.
Condition engies can beat condition necros, but they have to not spike the conditions like they do against everyone else.
You say this but in reality the necro won’t die at all if you don’t apply enough pressure, if you just focus on applying 2 condi at a time, the necro is simply gonna just end up condi bombing you with their own condition which engineers again, cannot counter.
Its a lose either way, you hold out all your skills and necro end up crushing you because you do not pressure enough or you end up condi bombing him in which case you just end up getting yourself killed.
Necro also has more than one button to counter engi, Corrupt boon after engi reach 75% health and its usually auto win. signet of spite and/or some random fear proc on top of spamming all your marks and necro wins
Its really disgusting how such a class is still not nerfed. You can faceroll your keyboard as necro, make all the mistakes in the world, where as i have to play flawlessly the entire way through.
You can even ask vee wee #1 engineer and she would agree that necro needs nerf.
You could replace necro with “engi” and some of the necro skills with “turrets,” and your almost entirely recreate how people QQ about engineers.
Necros are pretty OP, they can destroy engineers with one press of a button, its sad really.
That button would be?
Condition transfer after the engie is dumb enough to give necros a ton of ammo.
Condition engies can beat condition necros, but they have to not spike the conditions like they do against everyone else.
Interrupting consume conditions and being wary of when you gave the necro conditions and when they pull their staff out is helpful too.
Any necro build is pretty easily countered. The only real issue with them is if you don’t know what build they are running and you come unprepared you can get rekt… but that’s not OP, that’s just you not having the tools you should have to deal with what they had.
I wouldn’t say easily countered, but any necro build can be quite powerful and at the same time counter able by most players in a solo situation and any team.
But I don’t play at high, super organized levels of pvp, but I think necros may exist a little more in those situations.
For PVE this statement holds water. In pvp right now, I feel stronger than I have since before the patch, and we’ve been very strong in WvW for a long time.
Cool idea, OP. This needs red post attention.
Pretty sure it shows up as “0” or says “immune” not invulnerable.
Please know terminology before using it – Invulnerable: impossible to harm or damage.
So a warrior basically needs to use their entire skill bar to have 5 seconds (max, only 4 second if not traited) of invulnerability. While a true invulnerability skill gives complete immunity by itself. That is the downside to the skill, and why endure pain can contest a point while invulnerability skill can not. He can enjoy his 5 seconds of fame, because he’ll be dead shortly after.
Signet of Stone (ranger skill) provides immunity to physical damage and that can contest points, so why would a warrior be any different. Please explain.
The point of the thread isn’t whether the skill is balanced, really, which seems to be what you’re arguing about. It’s that it contests a point. But regardless, no other class can pop their utilities, be untouchable, contest a point, and still deal damage. You know what happens if I run into 5 enemy players and pop all my utilities? I’m likely dead in the amount of time endure pain would have lasted.
As for rangers, they shouldn’t be able to contest either, the thread just turned to endure pain. Thread title and OP mention invulnerabilities in general, not endure pain. You can end your warrior crusade any time.
(edited by Roe.3679)
Engis are OP by the shear nature of everything they do is condi and power and aoe, best hp/s, never has to deal with cds (something is always off cd). That’s a different thread though….
Those same engineers are utterly hard countered by condition necros.
The point isn’t whether or not endure pain is useful for me, as a non warrior, to see it popped, it’s that the warrior can still attack (unlike most invulns) and hold onto a point (unlike all invulns). Invulns are only balanced because they are mostly defensive and can’t cap, but for some reason endure pain has this special treatment. There is literally no downside to this skill.
That’s because endure pain isn’t an invul…kitten
The downside is that condition damage can still be applied. Or you can just y’know, knock him off the point, because it doesn’t act as a stability, either.
If I hit a warrior with endure pain, it says invulnerable. It’s an invulnerability skill, just not invulnerable from everything. No condi build is going to deal significant damage in 4 or 5 seconds (even if they did – berserker stance) and most warriors seem to have stability as well. So while you can throw out your whole “just do condi damage” I can say “lol just pop zerker stance and/or stability and keep contesting that point with 0 counterplay whatsoever”
Labeling the siege and having some sort of reporting option that allows players to police themselves should work.
It would have to be that you can only report in WvW and only report your own server, since it would otherwise be possible to abuse. So many reports could give dishonored and unable to join WvW or a home borderland or something. So many dishonored on an account and it brings up a GM alert or something. It would need to be structured though that so many fake accounts can’t take out an enemy commander.
There are no ways I can think of to punish siege trolls without punishing actual faithful defenders which are rare and valuable, without putting it in the hands of players.
Engis are OP by the shear nature of everything they do is condi and power and aoe, best hp/s, never has to deal with cds (something is always off cd). That’s a different thread though….
Those same engineers are utterly hard countered by condition necros.
The point isn’t whether or not endure pain is useful for me, as a non warrior, to see it popped, it’s that the warrior can still attack (unlike most invulns) and hold onto a point (unlike all invulns). Invulns are only balanced because they are mostly defensive and can’t cap, but for some reason endure pain has this special treatment. There is literally no downside to this skill.
First, lich removes spectral armor.
I’m surprised, I never actually tried that out until you said that. Strange that the trait triggers while in lich form then.
It triggers in 50% health in lich if traited, but removes it when lich is casted with SA on.
P.S. was trying to be helpful, hope that didnt come off elitist.
First, lich removes spectral armor. But generally as a powermancer in pvp I just make sure not to waste an immobilize on them and play as usual.
Condimancers can teleport, use flesh golem knockdown if they have it, or just leave. I lost to plenty of warriors because I stubbornly tried to keep a point while they worked me over with zerker stance up. Then I just switched to powermancer and I have a much easier time killing them since zerker stance is not so useful for them.
But a condimancer will have more AOE and CC then a thief, and boon corruption. Although a good staff ele is probably better.
Why not also speak out against runes of the ogre, runes of the pirate, or really anything that gives something on hit? If the point is they get something for doing nothing, all of those runes do the same thing.
Not drunk, very serious.
Why does this Rune exist? It’s the perfect example of passive play. The wearer does NOTHING, and I lose control of my character.
And if players feel this is OK, then why aren’t there other runes that do the same thing with different stats. I’d LOVE if Rune of the Mesmer 6th trait was “50% chance when struck to inflict a STUN for 2 seconds”. Thats WAY better than a 30% daze increase.
So either change the Rune, or balance it out so that all the control effects are covered.
All control effects aren’t conditions. Fear can be removed from a stunbreak or a condi removal.
While I agree that the passive fears are annoying and could be transformed into less annoying traits/runes, and there is no shortage of suggestions for those, I find the premise of this thread silly because hardly anything has changed for necros in 6 months.
I agree, I’m enjoying that an opposing ranger is making me think a little bit and that they are a little more common now.
I’ve seen way worse reactions over less, I’ve seen way worse reactions over nothing at all.
Pretty straightforward: Invulnerabilities shouldn’t contest capture points since there is no counterplay to these skills. Some invulns already function like this and it should be made an across the board change.
Send you loot to me and delete the account bound stuff. You’re welcome.
It may save you some time to know that you can pvp at level 2, so you can create a necro and find out if you like it for yourself. Obviously you can do the same for any class.
I enjoy playing necro the most, so to me it’s worth it. But there are other classes in a stronger place right now.
I always liked the suggestion that the wurm switches places with you. On top of the consensus in this thread.
For my pvp powermancer build I take vital persistence and unyielding blast. I take VP in every build, actually, but UB is critical to killing most AI builds, plus it helps to cleave downed enemies.
I doubt anything like this ever happens because with near to death and boon duration you could have “hypothetically” very high stability uptime, even though it would never actually happen in real gameplay. So the stability duration will stay low enough that it can’t be made useful, basically.
I really wish they would give it the unholy sanctuary treatment and give it additional functionality, but that likely wont happen either.
I keep hearing that assassin is more DPS, but doesn’t it have less overall stats? Zerker has that nice extra vitality.
Old achievements meant more to PVE hunters than WvW players.
WvW players need their own achievements in their own way, and seasons aren’t the way to do that. I suggested in the past that WvW achievements should work like agent of entropy.
I always just thought it was the swarm itself.
Warriors don’t have to have the best of everything all the time. #FirstTierClassProblems
For the record though, these new rangers are about the easiest thing in the game to kill if you know what you’re doing.
If the rangers know what they are doing its not. Go play someone who played ranger before the patch and you are not going to win
Well if you lose to a good player because you don’t have the tools to deal with it (not accusing – I don’t have blocks or reflects either), then that’s just how the game goes.
Also notable is the ability to flash death shroud right before death to double-up on the DS entry traits.
As for how many times it procs, typically two or three times a match. Considering that’s usually two or three kills my opponents didn’t get, I’ll count that as good.
Flashing DS near death to double up on certain DS procs actually seems like a nice use – kudos. However, because it doesn’t proc at a certain health level and requires an actual KB (plus it has a cooldown), I just wonder if you’re playing with fire trying to gauge it this way.
One question…if you’re stomping out of DS and you receive a KB mid stomp, does the insta-switch to DS stop the stomp? I suspect it does, but if it didn’t, then I think this aspect of the trait would be more useful.
Also, if it’s proccing 2-3 times per match, are you saying that it actually changed the result of the fight or did it just prolong your death a bit longer.
The hard part I’m trying to get around is…“Who has any meaningful bit of LF left when their health is near death?”. It’s just so counter-intuitive to how you should play a Necro that’s it’s weird that THIS is what they came up to buff the trait.
These are my thoughts as well.
Most of the time I die with any meaningful life force, it’s because I was getting zerged down and would rather respawn with life force instead of delay a few seconds and respawn with none.
It was removed because people would spectate in hotjoin and join the team with the higher ranked players.
^ the same way that warriors can have fights reset on them, warriors can no longer maintain adrenaline and run away from fights. So that works both ways.
Interesting, but you can make a lot work in hotjoin. Have you taken it to solo or teamQ at all, or plan to?