I really don’t mind that people can spec to deal with my current build. But if they nerf Necros, this should get changed too.
I’m a big fan of this idea, but in practice I’m not sure how well it will turn out. Some classes really could use some expansion, but I don’t know that all weapons are the solution; for example, eles will have 20 new abilities per weapon, for tons of weapons. And then there are warriors who are sort of defined by being able to use a lot of weapons.
I’d love to see the weapons expanded upon, but I just don’t know that all weapons for all classes is the best thing to do.
Rabid is a good set up. Most people will use it with a sigil of earth and undead runes. The other sigil is up to you.
I really like a lot of these ideas.
I highly doubt pure power builds would go 30 into curses for burning, you are losing 30% critical damage, more DS pool, shorter DS cooldown, 100% crit in DS, 5% increased damage with LF more than 50%…. I think those are extremely important for damage in power builds.
Very good points.
The 100% crits in DS especially.I sure wasn’t thinking straight with that comment.
A hybrid build could still go into curses and grab it, for what it’s worth. If that was a change they made I would definitely dust off the rampager gear.
If you factor in normal condition duration, terror will tick for a total of 2600 damage (2 ticks) Dhuumfire will tick for about 3700 (5 ticks).
In terms of bursting, remember you can chain fear, getting bigger numbers from terror in shorter amounts of time. And those 5 ticks don’t hit that harder, I’d say the damage for those 5 ticks its around 3200. Fear can hit for around 5000 in the same 5 secs if you chain it, something very easy to accomplish
Yes, if you blow through some major cool downs you’ll do more damage than a passive proc that will be up again in 10 more seconds, whereas that burst will take 45 seconds to come off cool down.
And excuse my numbers as I am taking them from wvw rather than s/tpvp.
I don’t want any nerf btw, but IF something it’s nerfed, it must be the OP side of the combo and not a single 30 trait points which engis got for 10.
There are no OP sides, the combo is the problem.
If terror is nerfed, you won’t be forced to take Spite IX because you already use it.
If Terror is nerfed you will be forced to take Dhuumfire regardless of whether you had it before or not.
At least the terror build won’t be destroyed. You still have an option.
I quite don’t get that guy. Nerfing Terror will destroy more balanced condition build that doesn’t use dhuumfire than dhuumfire nerf. Just say it, you just want to keep playing 30/30/10/0/0, and don’t give a kitten about all those other 5-6 condition builds using terror without dhuumfire. Hence why you keep suggesting to nerf terror. Good try…
I don’t play 30/30/10 and I dont use terror in my build(s). Your idea of balance takes into account that every build use terror, but thats not true.
Try to make a build with dhuumfire as a major contribution to damage, then nerf it. That build it’s not viable anymore.
And in case you didn’t read it, I don’t want any nerf. Just saying that nerfing terror makes much more sense than nerfing dhuumfire.
Objectively, Terror it’s more powerful than Dhuumfire, I hope you agree with that at least. At this moment, a 30 point trait in spite it’s worse than a 20 point trait in curses and equal to a 10 point trait in Explosives(engi trait).Tell me how it’s logic to nerf Dhuumfire.
If you factor in normal condition duration, terror will tick for a total of 2600 damage (2 ticks) Dhuumfire will tick for about 3700 (5 ticks).
Tell me how terror is more powerful? Just because it ticks harder doesn’t mean it does more damage overall.
And I don’t mean to attack you vicious…. but I do find it entertaining that you seem to have the mindset that your builds revolve around a trait that has existed for 3 weeks.
what? you want to nerf my terror build? Nerf Dhuumfire instead of terror
I don’t want Dhuumfire nerfed because I use it.
nice…
I was telling the other guy that I use Dhuumfire, and he think I didn’t. Don’t get me out of context for your post next time. My reasons for not nerfing DF are well known.
I don’t want any nerf btw, but IF something it’s nerfed, it must be the OP side of the combo and not a single 30 trait points which engis got for 10. And there is a difference if you still don’t see it: You actively ask for nerfing a trait that you will use it anyway.
If terror is nerfed, you won’t be forced to take Spite IX because you already use it.
As has been said it’s the combo of burning and terror damage that is OP. I could just as easily say that the grandmaster trait is more powerful and not a master trait ability.
Anyway the fact that Dhuumfire is a 30 point ability is another reason it should be nerfed instead of Terror, since a reduction in effectiveness or removal would open up other builds more.
Still trying to figure out what was really wrong with necros to begin with (aside from the obvious lack of stability/stunbreaks). Since I made my necro I haven’t understood why so many people had issues with it pre-patch..never had any issues with it aside from the previously stated. Necromancers needed a way to peel, sustain, stability/stunbreaks..not burning and all the other mess. Where does burning fit into the lore of a necromancer? o.O
They’ve obviously become a huge issue, and with all the complaining I doubt they’ll be ignored for long. So I guess now we wait for adjustments right.
The general necro consensus was that we wanted more sustain and a way to reset a fight, and to generally have more ways to keep people close which we got fairly well with tainted shackles.
I’ll repeat what others have said because it bears a lot of weight and is very important to the class. If you nerf terror, you pigeon hole EVERY SINGLE NECRO in the game to run Dhuumfire.
Don’t repeat anything you don’t think by yourself.
if you nerf Dhuumfire, you pigeon hole EVERY SINGLE NECRO in the game to run Terror.
That isn’t even slightly true. If you nerf Dhuumfire, power and hybrid builds can go back to close to death in the same slot which is generally the more powerful trait for them except for in 1v1 situations. And it won’t matter much for group PVe since tons of classes have burning already.
I don’t know if it’s been mentioned so far, but Dhuumfire also adds yet another condition for people to remove. If it never existed people would remove more of our torment and bleed stacks.
I also think it needs to be said that if they nerf anything it should be Dhuumfire. Like it was previously mentioned Mug on Thieves took a huge hit and no one takes it anymore. I don’t want Terror to be hit the same way. I don’t want to run around hoping I get some RNG proc instead of actively controlling my damage. Conditionmancer will be far less fun if they decide to nerf Terror and nerf it hard.
Yea sure, that sounds like “i know a terror nerf will force every condi necro and his dog into a single spec, but since i don’t play the class i don’t really care”. You don’t seem unbiased at all, sry.
Agreed. I don’t care if Necros are a burst condi class, in fact I really don’t think that’s the role they should play at all. But if you nerf Terror you push a Necro into a more boring playstyle with a cookie cutter build.
My picture of what a necromancer should be is a class that is less mobile than most but a must-focus target once they get the ball rolling with their life-force. It gives them a unique roll and actually forces them to use their class mechanic as it should be played instead of literally sacrificing their own health to protect it. While the changes I suggested may nerf other specs, let’s be perfectly honest and say that no other specs are worth running right now for the simple reason that the dhuumfire/terror combination is simply too strong right now. Other specs clearly need a buff, but to actually buff them this mechanic and spec need to be changed as well.
It sounds like these changes would force people into a 30/30/10 spec instead of changing Dhuumfire which encourages different builds.
No offense to the OP, but I would hate these changes. I have little to no life force generation as it is, changing this might as well remove the class mechanic altogether.
But I have no issue with removing burning and the trait that increases fear duration. Terror is a cool trait and I don’t want it changed but when you can have 4-5 fears go off – depending on a build – for 2 seconds each, it’s too much.
I think they got some of the things right with the Necro buffs, especially that getting close to a necro is tough to get away from and a powerful foe once engaged. But they need to scale back the damage and scale up the survivability (which is what most of us wanted in the first place).
Then spec for stability as Dark Magi said.
I play this after patch: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0pyaH5y3F17IxIFde0hUUY7L6h+tsjB-TkAA1CtIMSZkzIjRSjsGNAB I dont met necro what can beat me:-)
You have one condition removal and you did not met a necro that beat you?
He’s also immune to conditions at 25% health. It’s a pretty hard counter to condi classes in general.
I also tried Cleansing formula 409 with elixir b and h. It was terrible ^^. If the necro equips corrupt boon you’re pretty much screwed with elixir b.
On another note: Does the Ds teleport thing work if you dodge it ? or do you just avoid the chill ?
Most Necros aren’t carrying corrupt boon anymore, for what it’s worth.
And if you dodge the hand you cancel the teleport, the chill, and the 3 stacks of bleed. If it hits you you get all that plus they’ll start stacking torment immediately. So it’s an important dodge.
It’ll be hard to connect, I know. But they will have no way to effectively fight back. Land that chill grenade and you should have some luck.
When I fight engis most of them get pretty close and stack me full of conditions, which I just send right back and open up with my own burst which doesn’t end so well for the engis who don’t change their playstyle (as I imagine that strategy is effective most of the time, but not against a necro that knows their class).
If you keep your distance and lob grenades, count the dodges and hit them with the chill grenade, you could deal a lot of damage then.
Overall the keys are to stay around max pistol range, and stay on the offensive when they are in death shroud, but still offensive at a distance. Otherwise a necro does pretty poor in a drawn out fight. Especially look to dodge dark path (a hand from death shroud) and deathly swarm (locusts that come at you).
Offhand shield does pretty well too especially if the necro is in death shroud or scepter/dagger.
(edited by Roe.3679)
I play a conditionmancer. Looking at your build I would keep a very long distance with grenades and do a lot of damage that way. If you see that they have burned through most of their marks (if you have weakness at long range, it’s a good sign that they used putrid mark on top of the poison field) then close in to between 600 and 900 range, especially if they are in death shroud. If they are in death shroud stay in that distance and that’s a good time to be on the offensive, but dodge a hand you see coming at you. Burn down their life force and they are in trouble. If you see a swarm of locusts coming at you if they are in scepter/dagger, dodge, as that is a condition transfer.
If you get closer than than 600, the fears get stronger and torment can get out on you. Marks and other gtaoe become easier to dodge at range if you keep moving.
Lord forbid some people start putting a condition cleanse on their bar and use it judiciously (Hint: Do not use it on the first poison or stack of 4 bleeds you get).
Most of what people are talking about existed before the patch when Necors were underpowered and did relatively poorly in PvP. If you want to complain show the difference, the before and after.
I think really what is going on is that more necros are showing up to PvP so people have to figure out how to counter them.
Why not give EVERY class a new heal, one that heals ALL conditions and makes the user immune from ALL conditions being applied for X number of seconds(increased based on number of conditions removed)? Of course this would be done in different ways for each character (except Necro, they just get the X seconds of immunity added to Consume conditions, cool down increased)
For example, Mesmers heal could be that it heals and sends all the conditions to a clone, or maybe the heal creates a clone that takes all of the conditions an what conditions it has on it will be given to anyone in its AoE when its killed/replaced?
Of course this would take work to make the heal “fit” all of the classes but this would help with the Condition builds. Could even make it so that the immunity (would be a boon and ONLY applicable from the heal and cant be spread to allies) increases the more Conditions that you have?
This way it wont be so limited on who actually gets condition removal. Thus it will be like a battle of wits between the condition user and the target, does the Condition user burst all conditions fast or slowly build them and risk it not being enough
How long does the target wait before they use the condition removal heal? to soon and it will be wasted, to late and it could still mean dying.
That would change the game alot i think, it would give Necros(and all condition specs) a real dilemma rather then having next to nothing to fear. Something similar could be done for Boons, where each class is given a skill that strips boons from a target and gives them a “condition” (again this ONE skill has it and the condition cant be spread) that makes them not able to get boons for X number of seconds (increased per a boon removed)
So every class gets a full condition cleanse – even the ones with overwhelming removal as it is? And every class gets corrupt boon too, except far stronger? Seems reasonable.
I think being focused is still the biggest defense for opponents of a terrormancer in a pvp situation. When I’m not focused down in small scale wvw I can wreck a lot of people. But if just 2 people decide they want me dead and come at me hard, there is nothing I can do about it besides stall and hope my team helps me out, and quickly.
Your exact condition damage isn’t really something you need to worry about, but having the righty gear and quality gear is more of an actual concern. The damage number just controls how hard your conditions tick for. There is no cap. And 835 isn’t right for a geared 80 toon.
Plague as a PVE elite can spam blinds and poison to assist your group and deal AOE bleeds all with high defense. It’s more useful in pvp/wvw in my opinion, but a good skill.
And for what it’s worth, that 20 you have in spite could probably be best used elsewhere.
I have midnight ice and cucumber for my necromancer. It seems to match some of the effects nicely.
So, because i won’t put points in it, i’m not allowed to discuss it ?
You’re complaining about how the skill effects you and is a detriment to what you want to do, so yeah, I do find it weird that you’re QQing about an option you don’t have to take. It’s not like there is a widespread negative effect that you’re discussing.
Btw, to clear up if somebody missed it, if you have only 2 supplies or the build/repair needs only 2 supplies to fill out you won’t waste 4 (or more depending on rank) of them – the “Uses 4 supplies at once” is a bit misleading.
But you can’t just use 2 supplies on your repair to keep the rest to build a siege or whatever else you might want to keep them for. It’s still a pain even though it’s supposed to help.
Then put the points somewhere else, no one is forcing you to take this skill line.
That’s sort of the point of defending though, right? And there is always a counter because catas and Trebs have the range to always work around it. Really if the siege is an issue inside it’s because the attacking force is too stubborn to adapt to the situation.
Regardless a small organized group got a little better if they take build mastery and use it properly.
Do you even realize that siege like arrow carts are an anti-zerg mechanic.
Anti-zerg mechanic frequently used by zergs themselves to counter the opposition.
If you think these changes favour smaller numbers, then you’re deluded. This was already stated by the majority on here when they first decided to buff AC’s completely out of the blue.
Zergs can use siege too but you must not WvW much if you haven’t seen a couple guys in a tower with siege fend off a whole Zerg. More siege more quickly favors smaller numbers because zergs never have an issue speed building things, anyway. Now a small group can get up an AC or 2 without someone running in to hit it and prevent it from being fully built because now it needs more supply that a small group doesn’t have.
I don’t think things wil stay this way forever. Prices are down because people hoarding siege and badges are cashing in. Eventually the siege will get used up, demand should go up and supply will go down, so the prices will go back up. Economics, doods.
I certainly hope that 8K damage total isn’t 70% of your HP, if so, I definitely know why you’re losing to Thieves.
This part isn’t directed at the OP, but I think Thieves are fine the way they are and that Anet keeps them that way to see how many people will QQ over a class that is fine, but frustrating in the hands of a very good player.
Some of these are really great.
Mine is Nec Roe.
Equally geared and skilled could go either way. After the buffs to necro I’ve had better luck with Mesmers, but I can still get embarrassed by one from time to time if I mess up, have skills on cool down, etc.
For me it seems to come down to key dodges, hopefully blinding when they use phrases, whether of not they break fear, and if I can transfer conditions with putrid mark which can be tough with all of their movement.
Equally skilled will be a very good fight but probably over very quickly. I think at lower skill caps you’ll see more Necros win and at the highest skill you’ll probably see more mesmers win.
Thieves can bring good damage and interesting support with stealth. Mesmers have great team utilities and elites and have a ton of different specs, although their effectiveness tends to go down more with larger groups. Guardians and ekitten th can be effective in support, damage, and bunkering, and Necros and engis can bring a ton of AOE and condition damage.
The odd ducks out are (in my opinion) warriors and rangers.
I know that isn’t one class like you wanted, but it does depend on what you want, what your style is and what else is in your group. If you don’t know, probably guardian or elementalist are your best bets to be generally successful.
I have an 80 thief that is not my main, and I agree with OP 100%.
I found it absurd that I can sit and spam backstab and not be revealed if I am blinded, blocked, etc. It just continues to give the thief the advantage and does not punish poor gameplay decisions.
At the end of the day, I think that’s the biggest issue with the thief. You can spam backstab from stealth the practically no real decision making. You can spam heartseeker and still deal decent enough damage. There needs to be more give and take with the thief, IMO.
What would you say if guardians had an elite which transformed them into a ball of light which gave 5 nearby allies aegis every second for 20 seconds?
That’s not even close to the same since you couldn’t get out of range of the guardian to negate what he’s doing. With plague you just need to stay outside of the line around them, and even then they do need to be spamming blind (because they don’t always hit blind).
Because of this post I paid more attention to when I used plague in wvw and most times my stability was stripped, and then I’m pretty easy to get away from.
Yes? What’s your point? I was saying condo builds with Terror (so, like, all of them) currently deal an appropriate amount of damage. Nerf Terror to soften Terror + Burn stacking and you drop the damage of condo builds below their current totally-appropriate amount of damage.
point its devs should nerf terror damage and not Dhuumfire. Terror builds can take burning to help with dps if terror damage its not enough. Hybrid/chill and other builds won’t get another source of damage/condi cover if Dhuumfire is nerfed.
So don’t touch Dhuumfire!
Hybrid builds will still have Close to Death. Hybrid builds existed just fine before without Dhuumfire, honestly it might have been our most powerful build.
If Terror gets nerfed it hurts 0/30/10/0/30 builds.
Also, things worked before without Dhuumfire. Dhuumfire got added and now it’s deemed OP. So the solution shouldn’t be to fix Terror, it should be to fix what clearly made the difference in Dhuumfire.
(edited by Roe.3679)
Almost all of these things existed in their current form before the patch when Necros were one of the worst classes in the game.
I don’t mean to be this ignorant poster who does this, but some people need to L2P. We can put together a very strong build, and I can agree with some toning down, but people have taken it way too far.
I didn’t see the flesh golem as OP thing but that makes me laugh.
I think they should wait to see if Necros start dominating TPvP before they deem them OP.
Necros are still wildly susceptible to CC and being focused – in WvW where I usually play – I can kill other players faster, but I still can’t win a 2v1 against competent players because I still have no defense, no reliable stomps, etc. I still can’t kill a bunker d/d ele, although now I can stall the fight. Some rangers still give me a very hard time. I used to chew up Guardians, but now a guard with stability is a real threat.
It’s a heavily offensive class so people can get trained by them, especially if they don’t bring the right build or utilities. But if they put in a little effort I’m sure they could still kill a necro.
Calm down ppl, Devs will change sigil of paralyzation to not increase fear duration, then they are going to reduce terror damage by 30-50% and thats all. They won’t decrease any other condition duration on any other skill or trait.
If they nerf terror damage by that much it’ll kill the terror builds that don’t also take Dhuumfire, of which there are many. It’ll force everyone into 30/20/10 builds to compensate for the huge loss in damage.
They shouldn’t touch Terror at all, it’s the other things they added that need to be looked at, including fear duration on Doom and Dhuumfire.
CC thieves, then burst them down. If they have dagger mainhand and you see them stealth and you think they are coming at you, stand in some AOE.
I’d rather they just took burning away then adjust terror. Or change burning to torment and change the durations and cool down.
How they didn’t see all this being strong is beyond me.
As someone who has played a terror necro for months before this patch, I would be ok with this change too IF I could keep fear as an interrupt but not a hard CC.
Losing reaper’s mark to interrupt stomps or revives and doom to interrupt heals would be a big nerf.
Roe – you’re probably thinking unorganized pugs. I’m talking organized fights where the groups are usually stacked up properly.
Sure you can avoid the majority of the well, but when a necro goes darkness plague and latches onto your group there’s not a lot you can do about it.
If you’re in an organized fight, then organize to kill the necro, or just chill them and back away. I mean, if you’re all stacked he can only blind 5 people at a time, anyway.
I know plague has it’s place in Zerg v Zerg fighting, but it isnt’t all that hard to kill or completely negate a necro in plague form. I would know, I’ve died in that form trying to get into towers or contributing to my own group many times. It’s silly how easy it is for a decent player to /laugh at plague form, so surely your organized groups can do it, too.
I transferred to Borlis Pass from a tier 1 server along with my brother. We came looking for a good solid server with good matchups, and we wanted to get away from the constant zerging in tier 1. We had tried a few other servers before BP, but we are home now.
The community has strong players and good communication, and good leaders. Some of our commanders are some of the best I’ve played under, even including my time on tier 1. BP seems to have a knack for putting up a great fight and prevailing with strong tactics.
I’m still very happy about having transferred to BP, and I would recommend it to anyone else, too.
I did this before the patch by accident. Not that I’m proud of the mistake, but this isn’t something that was impossible before the patch as I still killed bads with no amulet.
1.) I use runes of the eagle with my power build.
2.) I actually pick lower cool downs for DS and lower spectral cool downs, but I think that 2nd soul reaping trait is decided by playstyles.
3.) I take reaper’s precision/gt wells. I put the points in curses for the stats as much as the traits.
Could you guys show a Powermancer build for me?
30/10/0/0/30. But those 10 points could work anywhere.
You can immobilize them, strip stability and CC them, or just run. Claiming OP about something very easily countered is a little unnecessary. Also fairly sure cripple and chill will still effect them.
If you stand in the wells or let a necro follow you around in plague, sure. There are tons of ways to avoid plague form. They are surely powerful but mostly to people who aren’t aware of what’s going on around them.
I find it very powerful if you wait for burning to come up and pop torment and terror, it’s a wildly strong burst.
It can still get removed but every one of my burning procs is about 7 seconds, which is close to 5k damage if it runs it’s course, and then it’s up again in a few more seconds.
I think it will shift the meta to more people being concerned about conditions and carrying more condition removal, more stun breaks and more melandru runes and lemongrass soup.