I’d love to join a group like this, though I’m pinned down with connections in Dragonbrand.
someone please remind me how can you hit backstab right after steal? afaik you need to be invisible to hit backstab and i dont know about steal giving invisibility.
charging cloak and dagger as you use steal.
Still doesn’t put you behind the target, unless the opponent lets them do it though.
I hit a heavy target dummy for 18-19k with 100 blades on my warrior in sPvP. That is about 1.5 seconds or less because of quickness. It’d be even worse in WvW because of higher power/crit damage…. and lower toughness targets… mmm.
It isn’t just thief that can burst for really big numbers…
100 blades is very easy to evade and are 8 hit dont have any point of comparation with 1 unnespected hit impossible to evade
backstab…impossible to invade?
wat?
A very interesting point about ESports that ANet should keep in mind
in PvP
Posted by: Rottaran Owain.6789
Important thing to note: The “casual” PvP has a different number of players than tPvP per team, which heavily effects the game in many places, including balance. This separation hurts the potential for an E-Sport, because the casuals are essentially playing a different game than competitive players.
Making sPvP lobbies would help cut down on zerging, foster a better environment for casual, and competitive interactions, and make the PvP as a whole easier to balance.
Because an increased cooldown doesn’t do a thing if their cooldowns aren’t up. It may translate into a loss of DPS, but not directly, or immediately.
If by fall flat on their faces at your feet you mean push a button and walk away while invisible to try and kill you again in a couple of seconds when you don’t have your miraculous damage mitigate ability that lets you anticipate the first attack of an invisible opponent and reduce the 15k damage available.
You might want to do a little research into this “15k backstab”
You’ll find out that failing to do it means he’s blown multiple utilities, his elite, and his steal.
It’s not “a couple of seconds” till he can retry. More like 45.
It’s a minute, and other than maybe blinding powder or smokescreen + heartseeker, the only other stealth option he’ll have left is a healing skill.
Rangers are a highly mobile class. You might be doing it wrong
in Ranger
Posted by: Rottaran Owain.6789
Add to that.. Spike Trap is a cripple not an immobilize.. big difference. Muddy also only does the immobilize on creation not the pulse.
Spike trap always applies an immobilize for me, though it doesn’t appear in the tooltip.
Yeah, they can, though to my knowledge, when they log in, they’re dead.
Of course, that doesn’t matter to the killer who wants the loot/exp.
Stumbling upon the Lion’s Arch jumping puzzle.
Unless you use one of the dozens of ways to mitigate the thieves damage, in which they fall flat on their face at your feet.
Many AoEs do not have clear edges to them, you wouldn’t be able to tell whose team their from, and honestly, this game needs all the visual clarity it can get. It’s already hard enough to tell what’s going on in a 5v5 battle.
I really wish their were scarves to, though they’d probably be harder to implement.
Rangers are a highly mobile class. You might be doing it wrong
in Ranger
Posted by: Rottaran Owain.6789
I can’t say I agree that ranger is a highly mobile class, but I definitely agree that he’s got great control. Especially so with spiders.
Been rocking a trap ranger for a while, and loving it.
Good tip for aspiring rangers. The leap skill on swords can give self-heal in the water combo field of healing spring. With the cooldown of 8 seconds, you can use this twice with each spring, and make up for the lack of straight healing power on it.
Try Engie. They’ve got a lot of really different ways to play with all their turrets, and kits. It’s not as fast paced as a thief, obviously, but there’s a lot to play around with.
No mention of class, build, or even if sPvP, or WvW. Nothing to discuss.
For all we know, you’re wearing level 1 gear on an elementalist.
I will bottom line it for you,
PEOPLE PLAY WHAT IS MOST POWERFUL.
the more powerful the more peopel play it. go into any pub game and mark down the classes you see over the next hour as 2handed mezmer and dagger thief appear all over and over again.
draw conclusionif it was balanced we would see as many dagger thieves as dagger necros.
Going into the average TF2 server, you usually see 3 spies, and 3 snipers. on each team. If you’ve ever played TF2 in your life, you’d know off by heart that this is not effective in the slightest, and the only reason people do it is because they like the arch-type of the classes.
Conclusion: What people play most often in random, public, matches has little to no effect on balance.
Today, I went ahead, and played as a ranger in tPvP. I faced several glass cannon thieves of all varieties, and never lost a 1v1 against any of them, excluding one who didn’t go class cannon, but instead condition damage.
I don’t get how people manage to die to them, honestly. I didn’t even put a lot of thought into my build. Just damage dealing traps for utilities, entangle for elite, and traits that seemed to work well with it.
Not really, mostly people who are unfamiliar with the Mesmer concept from Gw1 (and those who get owned by Mesmers) think they’re OP.
Mesmer main from GW1 here.
Moa Morph is not only OP from a balance standpoint, but it stands out as a joke in a game that’s trying to become an E-Sport.
Can’t wait for horrible players to ask for screenshots of tourney player’s K/D to prove their skillz.
Please, don’t put this feature in.
I never see anyone using the traps for thief, and I just don’t get it. Shadow Trap, and Tripwire are great.
All classes slow down when in combat. When you have the signit of shadows, and you enter combat, you slow down to a bit slower than a class that’s not in combat’s speed.
You are still going faster, it’s just since the amount you slow down by is a percentage, it affects people who are moving faster more.
How I personally would have handled the Asura storyline to make the game better.
in Asura
Posted by: Rottaran Owain.6789
Dibs on the name “Jump n’ Shootman”
The personal story-line for a poor human fits the idea of a thief better than any of the Sylvari’s.
“And now… to destroy you!”
Small-scale encounters rare in PvP? Oh, you’re talking about WvW, which no single thing really has the power to be game changing other than player counts, gear, and cash.
Yeahhhh… it’s pretty obvious the OP is talking about either 5v5, or 8v8. Where Moa Morph definitely needs fixing.
I never noticed this as an Asuran thief.
Then, I made an Asuran Mesmer, and holy cow, what is up with my greatsword? It’s like it’s straight out of Journey to the West or something.
A Better Question Would Be:
Why can’t Rangers use Rifles?
They can use greatswords and axes, for hell’s sake… Why not a Rifle?!
The forest ranger arch-type typically uses a longbow for ranged combat, and a hand-axe, or scimitar for close-quarters. They also forsake technology for more natural methods. (Pets, wooden stake spike trap, and such)
It’s an elite skill.
I guess you guys haven’t played other games where the control class (wow mesmer actually has A CONTROL skill, what a surprise, they should have a lot more control, but they got one decent one that takes forever to activate) has very similar skills (rift has moa morph I think it was called and did the exact same thing).
This is not Rift.
This game was made by the same guys who made Guild Wars, did you know?
There was control also in Guild Wars, but do you want to see some control skill of Guild Wars?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shroud_of_Silence
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blackout
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Migraine_
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Power_Block
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Psychic_Distraction
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Visions_of_Regret_Most of them works on recharge and energy, but consider that most the professions have at least 20 energy and regenerates 4 energy every 3 seconds. Players had about 500 hp.
When do you see a skill that is the same as Moa kitten? Do you see something that is as game breaking as Moa?
One thing is control, another thing is opness.
These skills were widely used in PvP by Mesmers (except one that is a sin’s skill) and, in fact, playing mesmer required some skills at that time to be played effective and make a difference.
You can cure these.
Moa is un-cureable.
After being hit, there is very little you can do to improve your situation other than to use up your endurance dodging attacks, and attempt to run away.
Considering GW2’s focus on AE effects and overpowering single abilities (since this empowers PvE and WvW), I’m not exactly sure it’s a good idea to use tPvP as an example of what PvP is supposed to look like.
Different types of PvP don’t need to have the same rulesets for abilities. Plenty of abilities had different effects between PvP, and PvE in GW1, I don’t see why it can’t be any different here.
You seriously have no idea of how Grouvp Vs Group fight works?
you should seriously try playing some Dota 2 or any other kind of Moba game, and learn some basics about 5v5 fights and find out what would be betterWhile u’r moae’d u can Run/Dodge/Attack while the rest of your team can help you with heals/buffs/etc
if u Snared all your enemy team, they cant’ run, they can’t evade, they can only cast skills and attack IF you and your team didnt kill them off already or at least 1 or 2 targets, plus the continous interrupts and such
since it cant neither be broken until you destroy the vines, wich makes you focus on something else other than your enemy for at least 4~5 strikeshave you even seen Entangle working on a 5v5 fight? or even better on a WvW scale fight?
Even on a 1v1 Sceneraio moa can only kill some1 if the person is dumb enough to stand still and not try to run it off because mesmer’s lack snare/slows/stuns that last long enough to kill a moving target
Funny you should mention Mobas, because battles where the whole team is there rarely happen in them. 5v5 fights don’t happen in 5v5 games. They’re at most 3v3 if people are playing smart.
I’ve seen plenty of rangers use entangle. It’s not hard for most classes to get out. Either they destroy the roots quickly, or they cure the condition, or they use a shadowstep move of some sort.
Moa turns 3v3 fights into effectively 2v3, 2v2 into 2v1. As a moa, your abilities are horribly weak, especially if you’re not a high power build.
Regardless of its power, it takes control of the battle completely away from the victim for an extended period with no counter. This alone is unforgivable in a competitive game.
Those points aside, the standard moa arguements still apply. For the 10s you are a moa:
1. you can kite
2. you can run
3. you can dodge
4. you can use moa skills (one of which is a stun)
1. No, you can’t effectively kite unless the mesmer lets you kite. You run equally as fast, or slower (if the mesmer has a speed buff of some kind)
2. You can’t run faster than the mesmer, and have no way of dealing with the numerous movement impairing skills. Most capture points in sPvP also are in notably wide-open areas without any real quick retreat options.
3. You’re going to need far more than two dodges to survive.
4. Most of the moa skills are terrible, and are also all very short range. You, as opposed to every other non-moa’d class, have no good way of closing the distance, and can’t switch to a ranged weapon.
“Run and evade while morphed”
Really? Do tell how you deal with cripple, chill, stun, and every other movement impairing condition as a Moa? How do I heal my wounds? How do I escape opponents without swiftness, or stealth, or a way to keep them still?
How can you possibly survive for 10 seconds of focus fire off of two evade rolls, and nothing else? Especially as a lower health class like the thief or elementalist?
It’s actually kind of funny that you mention entangle, because it just shows just how ridiculous Moa is.
Immobilize:
1: Can be cured
2: Allows ranged users to continue firing under most circumstances
3: Does not prevent healing
4: Does not take away utility skills
5: Does not interrupt transformations such as Tornado, or Lich Form
6: Does not destroy summoned creatures, such as minions, or Thieves.
It’s not even very well telegraphed, in comparison to most other classes elites.
BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL! Isn’t well telegraphed enough? Do you want it to send you an in-game mail 30 seconds before it hits?
Well lets compare. To a few other elites
Dagger Storm: Oh look, he’s turned into a uniquely coloured spinning blur, I guess I should stop firing projectiles
Guardian Tomes: Oh look, he has a tome in front of him
Elixer X: He’s turned into a giant
Bassalisk Venom: I can see the buff before he uses it on him
Just about every elite either isn’t one that “hits” opponents, or telegraphs the hit well in advanced in a way that can’t possibly be missed.
Polymorph, on the other hand is just a few waves of the hand, and the mesmer stops moving for a moment. Of course, this is also on the class that can have multiple versions of itself that you have to watch at the same time if at the time you don’t know which one is the real one.
There’s no elite that gives less time to react to the cast, and most are more obvious when the actual casting is being done.
Playing an Asuran Thief is addicting, and the utility skills pain inverter, and radiation field are very powerful on a close-up fighter.
Running away with what? What’s to stop your enemies from following you around said wall? What if an enemy follows it up with a cripple or anything like such? Most capture points in sPvP are also in fairly wide-open areas that melee users would be hard pressed to find themselves cover before taking an obscene amount of damage.
Then there’s the other issue. Unlike any other skill in the game, it makes the player hit by it unable to counter. If I’m dazed, I can break the stun. If I’m crippled, chilled, or anything, I can cure it. The only “counter” is not to get hit, which applies to every other ability in the game. It’s not even very well telegraphed, in comparison to most other classes elites.
This makes it not only a powerful ability, but not fun to fight against.
An ability like this, even if it isn’t OP in the big picture is just cheap. You could make the cool-down 30 minutes, and it’d still have the same flaws.
I wish I could throw away stolen items if I want to. Getting stuck with a whirling axe in a build with less than a thousand power is amazingly frustrating.
It’s rather absurd watching my thief “miss” a gate in WvW, or stationary targets in PvE.