Guild Wars 2

RamataKahn.4283:

As was already said, it’s a warrior bug & is going to be fixed soon.

This however is not a bug & makes laugh when ever a thief says they shouldn’t be nerfed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9gM9YAdYLo

This video is back from septemeber, and in that entire group of people, not one of them shot into the shadow refuge.

That small group heavily out geared them as well, as can be seen by the damage numbers, and downward facing arrows on all of their opponents.

In Diessa Plateau, there’s a couple Charr launching cows in the direction of a harpy nest.

It’s safe to conclude that not all Charr are all that smart. The same can be said of the Asurans as well.

On your first post, in the section on staffs, you noted the poison field for blindness finishers. You can’t get blindness from poison combo field. You get weakness for blasts, and leaps, and poison from projectiles and whirls.

I’d love to see traps actually start working. They seem to love doing absolutely nothing when people walk over them.

Ranger is underpowered. The solution is to make the ranger stronger so that he can better compete with all his opponents, not 1/8 of them.

RamataKahn.4283:

When two warriors can come even remotely close to doing this then you can maybe say a little something:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9gM9YAdYLo

I love the part 40 seconds in where no one attacks inside the shadow refuge.

None of them. And this was before Shadow Refuge got a buff to.

You’re going to talk about a class being OP because a coordinated group of them can destroy opponents they both outgear, and outplay?

I’d use this skill all day long.

For naysayers, stunbreakers exist for if the battle isn’t over by then, and under the acrobatics tree (which already synergizes amazingly with this elite), there’s a trait that removes cripple and weakness when you dodge roll once every 10 seconds.

“20? Yesterday they were 10.”

“Today, 20.”

It’s much easier to make a few massive updates than many small ones, development-wise.

Rayya.2591:

turn off MUG ^^

It happens regardless of Mug.

Skill number 3 would need a massive nerf. Burning is about comparable to 8 stacks of bleed in terms of damage.

“long bow range reduced to 1200”

I’ll have to go with calling fake with this.

kwolf.4306:

The way it should work is that any stealth overrides any attack … that way, you never stealth then immediately attack.

We’ll still see a problem with arrows that were already fired before stealthing revealing you, as well as things like radiation field on asurans.

A thief running the backstab build with quickness is barely any faster than without, as no matter what, he still needs to position himself behind you.

The answer as to how to counter it will vary by trait, or class, but in general, protection, aegis, evasion, CCs, Blinds, and Invulnerabilities are all viable ways of dealing with backstab thieves.

Asomal.6453:

Not really. If the thief have traited for full defensive Shadow Arts, condition builds won’t help much. As a matter of fact, the thief could stand alone just with the healing, without using any condition remover or trait and he’d survive long enough (you can heal 2k+ whenever you go invi). If you want to take this build down, you’ll need burst damage (100b warrior, BS thief, mesmers in general). In OP’s case I’d just flee the fight and wait for assistance because in the end you wouldn’t kill him but he would kill you, if you fight long enough…

The amount of conditions you can apply, and reapply will heavily out do the 1 condition removed every three seconds. The thief can’t get close to the ranger to cloak and dagger without being lit aflame by bonfire. He’ll be getting bled, burning, frozen, cripples, and weakness reapplied constantly without even considering a pet (a spider will do wonders here with AoE poison, and immobilizes.)

I do this all the time as a ranger, and have it done onto me when I play this thief build. It works.

Oh, the thief is traited 30 points into shadow arts.

He’s probably got a lot of toughness/healing power, but very little vitality. These builds tend to go this way.

Don’t just use your shortbow. By the fact that you have damaging traps, I’m assuming you have decent condition damage, so I recommend you grab an axe and torch. You’ll find yourself easily out-damaging his self-healing with the flames alone. Save your thrown torch for after he uses hide-in shadows. You’ll know the skill by how the thief raises his arm in the air, and has a blue glow on his hand.

Also remember to spam the tab button to target him when he comes out of stealth, as you can’t immediately see him due to the rendering bug.

How is this thief using his healing skill once every 5 seconds?

Well bomb builds all tend to be extremely similar, mostly because the Necro as a whole has a lack of options overall. Well bombing basically requires both damaging wells to work, as well as CCs, so there isn’t a whole lot to switch around in terms of weapons and utilities.

Even as a thief, who people are complaining about being pigeon-holed. I rarely keep to certain utilities consistently. As a necro, not so much. It feels much more like utilities will either synergize perfectly with your build, or they’ll be next to useless with it.

I also know about the charge delay, but I’ve taught myself when to press early to a degree from past experiences playing a ranger. You can never get it perfect, but it works well enough for the job I find.

Primo.4385:

Seriously…HB aoe damage? That’s what you came up with to rival backstab? lol.

He was replying to a person who said backstab did the most damage of any ability in the game.

Hundred blades does more damage than backstab.

I don’t see what’s so wrong with his statement?

sorrow.2364:

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Do you even know what we were arguing about? Because I think you misunderstand the entire thing.

The entire thing was about why you still need a stunbreaker despite having a lot of stealth. Saying “he can use roll for initiative” is changing the build shown on the previous page, and basically proving my point.

It’s also clear that you’ve never actually used the build, because despite there being a topic about it on the first page of the necro forum, you don’t seem to know a thing about any of the abilities used in the build until I spell out exactly what they are despite it being very cookie cutter.

I know that build and I’ve played it, there are obviously some variants, this isn’t Build Wars again. Since you talked about AoE blind, it was quite easy to misunderstand and think you was talking about Well of Darkness, so there is no reason you act that arrogant.

I came into the argument because you gave the wrong example, since bombing Necros can be easily countered without the need of a stunbreaker.

Flesh Golem Charge.

Again, this is exactly what I’m talking about. While I probably should’ve gone into more detail initially, it’s not like this is some sort of unheard of build. It’s even one of the top viewed threads in the necromancer discussion forums.

Also, when you say you’ve used this build before, it implies that you know what exactly the build is that I’m talking about. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, ask. Don’t assume.

sorrow.2364:

Rottaran Owain.6789:

You have literally no idea what you’re talking about. The AoE blind is cause by blast finishers from putrid explosion inside the wells as part of the burst. You’re not giving up damage for the extra conditions at all.

The chances that you’ll escape the burst with this build are way too low to be considered a reliable counter. Period. If you brought roll for initiative instead of blinding powder, you could get out of this 100% of the time with roll for initiative, which would be much more useful than another stealth skill overall, giving more initiative, and better escape potential on the exact same cooldown.

I thought you talked about Well of Darkness, not the combo field + putrid explosion. Anyway that effect isn’t that much useful.

Still, you have great chances to escape the burst since it takes places in more than 3 seconds to deal decent damage. You are able to shadowstep, you are able to stealth, you are able to use also Roll for Initiative.

Again, try that build out, than come back here again and say to me how many people you succeded to kill with that build (sacrificing every utility) compared with the backstab combo.

Do you even know what we were arguing about? Because I think you misunderstand the entire thing.

The entire thing was about why you still need a stunbreaker despite having a lot of stealth. Saying “he can use roll for initiative” is changing the build shown on the previous page, and basically proving my point.

It’s also clear that you’ve never actually used the build, because despite there being a topic about it on the first page of the necro forum, you don’t seem to know a thing about any of the abilities used in the build until I spell out exactly what they are despite it being very cookie cutter.

sorrow.2364:

Rottaran Owain.6789:

You do realize that there’s also AoE blindness, and vulnerability from the wells to deal with, right? Have you even seen how these builds work? Heck, hide in shadow’s regeneration would turn into another condition.

Who cares?
I main as a Necromancer and trust me, that build is half or a third as effective compared to any Thief build (excluding some).

You won’t use AoE blindess because it has no damage output at all and doesn’t help the burst. No one is going to use it during the well bomb.

Who cares that regeneration will turn into Poison? You escaped the burst and you are stealthed. All the wells are now on their 45s cooldown and you have all the time you need to kill your squishy enemy.

You have literally no idea what you’re talking about. The AoE blind is cause by blast finishers from putrid explosion inside the wells as part of the burst. You’re not giving up damage for the extra conditions at all.

The chances that you’ll escape the burst with this build are way too low to be considered a reliable counter. Period. If you brought roll for initiative instead of blinding powder, you could get out of this 100% of the time, which would be much more useful than another stealth skill overall.

You do realize that there’s also AoE blindness, and vulnerability from the wells to deal with, right? Have you even seen how these builds work? Heck, hide in shadow’s regeneration would turn into another condition.

Oozo.7856:

Here is a lesson in logic. Let’s say we have two abilities: Ability A and ability B. There are four possibilities.

Both A and B are not overpowered.
A is overpowered, but B is not overpowered.
B is overpowered, but A is not overpowered.
Both A and B are overpowered.

Question: If B is overpowered, does that mean A is not?

The thing is though that the warrior forums aren’t being bombared with nerf requests. You barely see actual discussion of the thief in here, and when you do, its usually derailed by a comment like “reroll to a class that takes effort”, or “F1, 2, 2, 2”

Get a torch, and go for condition damage, and the trapper traits. With it combined with flame trap, you can keep flames on groups of enemies almost 24/7, which is equivalent to about 8 stacks of bleed.

I can’t say how strong it is in dungeons, but I know from experience that I could take on level 80 mobs at around level 70 with axe/torch sword/dagger. Flame/Spike Trap, and Protect Me.

Ironic that people are saying that a thief can make sure your eye doesn’t catch him. Ignoring rendering issues, because bugs are bugs, and should be fixed, the thief actually HAS to make his presence known to make these steal+cloak and stab combos by meleeing the opponent, whereas a warrior could be charging his killshot outside your FoV the entire time, and you would never know.

A warrior also can do it from a range at which he can more reliably escape, especially considering he’s probably got a good 25 seconds of swiftness left on signit of rage.

testpig.5018:

if your avoiding the zerg, your doing WvW right. the zerg is not the army you need to worry about, it’s the small man groups taking all your supply camps/sentrypoints/killing your dolyaks, and choking your supplies. Those are the ones you need to worry about.

tPvP is not WvW.. in WvW stealth still is very much allowed to be used to cap objectives, and to hinder objectives from being capped.

you keep running with your zerg, that is the only way you see yourself effective and fine, with you and you zerg, you need not worry about getting killed by me and my fellow overpowered thieves.

I specifically said it’s useless for stopping capping in tPvP in my first post on the subject. WvW capping while stealthed is stupid, no one is arguing that.

And again, I never said I ran with a zerg. You don’t need a 20 some odd group to take out 20 under-geared, tunnel visioned players. Heck, you could probably kill them all by dropping in with maybe 5 thieves, and using dagger storm knowing how bad and undergeared they tend to be.

As for sorrow. Stealing fear doesn’t work when death shroud comes with stability and the typical well bomb has at least +10% condition duration from power. There’s also good ol’ master of terror trait that’ll make it 1.5 seconds.

Also note that there’s a 66% chance you’ll have at least one bleed on you from dark pact alone, let alone factoring in if the thief can’t react in time for the first well to hit, making your escape chances questionable at best.

Hop with the zerg? Of course not. Doesn’t mean I don’t need to deal with the enemy zerg in WvW. Someone has to stop them, and if you’re actively avoiding them in WvW, then you’re actively hurting your team.

And stealth is terrible for point defense in tPvP because the enemy can cap while you’re stealthed, meaning you’re not actually defending the point at all, and you should be playing a guardian, ele, or any literally any other class instead of a thief when holding a capture point.

testpig.5018:

stunbreakers are not necessary. Any damage i do sustain, i quickly heal back while in stealth.

Wouldn’t matter how much healing you have. You’d be dead against many of them long before you could escape.

For example, well bombing necros, if you’re visable for more than half a second.

1)Deathshroud
2)AoE instant cast fear for one second
3) Leave deathshroud, and use Dark Pact to immobilize for 3 seconds
4) Well bomb.
5) You’re downed before you can move, and even if you could, you’ve got half a dozen conditions on you.

All it takes is for you to be visible long enough for the necro to press three (F1, tab, 3) buttons, and you’re toast. This means you can never attack out of stealth because of the revealed debuff, and thus your best chance of survival is running away.

This isn’t even going into what your build is actually useful for. In terms of tPvP, you’d be dead weight. Defending a point? Stealth is the last thing you want for that. Assaulting a point? Dragging out the battle with stealth regenerations is handing the opponents free points. WvW? Have fun dying to every warrior that doesn’t render in the enemy zerg.

Wellbombing necros will walk all over that build. As will trap rangers, all mesmers, decent greatsword warriors, and just about any other cookie cutter build.

Stunbreakers are necessary, regardless of stealth.

stof.9341:

Remains to be seen. If it’s a nerf like Assassin Signet for example :o

To be honest, there’s practically no point to using the active effect of the assassin’s signit now.

If you’ve got a power of say, 1800, the +90 passive is an extra 5% damage. The difference between active, and passive is not nearly enough to justify the 40-ish seconds of downtime, and the skill goes from gimmicky to rather pointless.

Apophis.8561:

" wow wtf, rangers are so OP" <———-has anyone ever said this?

I actually once got a person saying traps hit for way too much.

ArcticRed.3068:

Daendur.2357:

ArcticRed.3068:

If im full toughness and no DPS and still getting killed in 4 seconds then IT needs to be adressed, and i will keep asking for it to be sorted out.

4 seconds are so long…. if you were not able to do anything in 4 seconds there is something wrong.
4 seconds are pretty enough to hit 1 key… maybe the one with “decoy” or “mirror images” or “blink” …

Their opener steal>C&D>BS hits me instantly for 14k.
It doesn’t matter what way you slice it, im still sitting with +-4k HP at the start of the fight, Nothing i do can stop the initial 14k burst.

Blinds, evasions, protection, invulnerabilities, and aegis. The combo is also not instant, and the entire combo is extremely predictable, so you shouldn’t have any trouble reacting to it.

gwawer.9805:

But do we have to have MELEE abilities be stand-still? Argh.

It’s like they promoted the game as innovatively casting on the move, but now it’s melee can’t move lol.

Roots/frenzy.

Don’t have enough mobility to hit a target? Keep your opponent from moving.

Not a bug to my knowledge. I think you’re thinking of bladetrail babelfish.

BabelFish.7234:

This proves you have no clue on this subject. If you stand in the middle of your shadow refuge for the duration you’re a bad thief and should feel bad.

You’re not even taking into context that initiative has a innate regeneration or the passive signet ability/traits which regen it while spec’d differently.

A) You need to stand in the refuge for 4 seconds before you can leave. For my “oh so weak condition ranger” I can hit you for a good 5k condition damage in that time in my worst case scenario, let alone the damage dealt by the conditions after you can leave your refuge. Necros can easily outright kill you in that time with the use of a couple wells.

B) I said specifically “if you’re not traited for it”. Yeah, you can trait and such for more initiative when stealthing, but at the same time, you’re ignoring the things you give up when going 30 points into shadow arts, or 20 into acrobatics.

testpig.5018:

Grimwolf.7163:

Wait, by “perma-stealth”, are you talking about the person just… using CnD, waiting it out, then using CnD again immediately after? Just that, and not much else?
I can see how that might be annoying, but… it’s not like they’re winning any fights.
And where does Backstab fit into that, since using it gives you Revealed.

You think CnD is the only form of stealth to be used in combat? do you even play this class?

I have 5 forms of stealth that can be used during any combat… backstab chain, to heart seeker, to CnD and repeat.. is very easy, and if your CnD cost is not up yet, just popping into stealth with any of the other 4 forms of stealth can generate enough int to backstab and CnD yet again.

Unless you trait for it, you’re only going to be gaining 2 initiative for non-shadow refuge stealths, and shadow refuge is an invitation for the opponent to AoE half your health away.

On the contrary, they fit in perfectly, in moderation. Choosing whether mobility, or a certain ability is more important at the time divides the good players from those who just spam whatever’s strongest.

Take killshot for example. Imagine you’re approaching an enemy on a capture point. Is it a good idea to take the killshot early, before the opponent notices you, and possibly make the match a guarenteed victory, or is it more important you stop the opponent from capturing/neutralizing, and getting on the point?

Full exotics?

Oh, goodie, a WvW post we can all safely disregard.

StugLyfe.2134:

Whatever you hit for on that golem you can nearly double it on a well defense speced player.

If that’s the case then longbow rangers are dealing 20k with rapid fire.

At this point in time, no.

Via the black lion trading company, you can buy extra character slots for 800 gems each.

Clusterbomb is horrible at long range, unless you’re firing from, or up a wall in WvW.

Hardly comparable to Eles AoE.

morrolan.9608:

The implication from Peters is that rangers are getting the second most.

You do know that Arenanet didn’t write the statement themselves, and all that information comes from a cluster of people around Jon asking questions in the mists, right? The post was information we know from Jon with screenshots, and started from some guy on Reddit.

Kinda hard for them to mention the number of bullet points on Elementalists when no one asked.

Steal can be blocked, evaded, and generally avoided like any other skill. Are you sure your targets didn’t get an aegis buff or something?

Half the time, Trahearne’s logic escapes me.

During that time where you’re dealing with the mesmer Syska, he comes to the conclusion after the camp is attacked that “it’s clear I’m (Trahearne) the real target”. It comes off as beyond arrogant, considering I’ve been targeted specifically by the risen on multiple occasions, yet nothing happens to him when I’m not around.

He even manages to downplay me shelling a couple dozen of our own soldiers, as if its just part of his daily routine.

Wraithforge.8710:

Hit up the Charr starting area, especially near the auction house guys, and some dude cooking something that never seems to be finished. I’ve never heard sound loop so quickly in any game…. ever.

It’s literally like there’s no pause at all, just constant repeat.

“Kittens got a sword to. Back off!”

Voice acting has hurt storytelling in gaming as a whole, as it creates a massive cost, and effort in what is normally as simple as writing in text.

Also, letting players fill in the voices with their minds is infinitely better than giving the characters poor voice acting.

Rangers have infinitely large lungs.

Proof: Spamming F1

This isn’t irony.