Guild Wars 2

maddoctor.2738:

Dashingsteel.3410:

It’s always funny to hear people complain they want challenging content. Wouldn’t it be more challenging to let a non meta player join you????

No. /15chars

What do you mean “No” Of course it would!

thrag.9740:

STIHL.2489:

Well given it was far easier for me to quickly find 4 half-way competent people and do a dungeons or fractals, and leave the elitist to rot in the corner while I played the game, as opposed to needing to find 9 raid equipped people that want to a dungeon that tame gated by the week. So yah.. things were better back then.. might explain however why I made so many friends with necros and rangers.. always wondered about that. but we completed dungeons just fine…

If you want the re-introduction of casual instanced content, I would support you fully. I love the harder instanced content we have received, but I also miss having casual instanced content available. I think dungeon rewards should be un-nerfed, and I would love to see the dungeon community come back to life. In fact I would also love to see new dungeons come into the game.

But, you were implying that raids created the ‘elitism’ you don’t like. I’m pointing out facts counter to that notion.

nahh.. raids din’t create Elitism.. they may have fostered it, nurtured it, and gave it a place to grow exponentially to the point that people who do raids feel justified to use spyware on other players.. but they did not create it.

thrag.9740:

STIHL.2489:

I dunno.. personally, and this is just me, but I think the fact that people are using DPS meters, is a sign that things have taken a negative direction.

You didn’t think dungeon groups that insta kicked all necros was a problem? Or rangers?

What about right when hot came out and we all did swamp of the mists by killing mossman underwater, and anyone who didn’t want to was kicked?

What about when cheesing lupi was the norm, and any guard who wouldn’t do it was kicked from the group?

All that was fine? The community was to your liking before raids came out?

Well given it was far easier for me to quickly find 4 half-way competent people and do a dungeons or fractals, and leave the elitist to rot in the corner while I played the game, as opposed to needing to find 9 raid equipped people that want to a dungeon that tame gated by the week. So yah.. things were better back then.. might explain however why I made so many friends with necros and rangers.. always wondered about that. but we completed dungeons just fine…

TexZero.7910:

Blaeys.3102:

Sooloo.1364:

I never understood why developers create content just for small segments of the community instead of everyone. This always leads to elitism and exclusion.

It has had a fairly negative impact on the game’s community.

And, even more unfortunate, if you try to bring it up on these forums, all you tend to get is “you’re imagining it – get over it and stop talking” style responses, which only further alienates people from the game mode.

The current implementation of raiding in GW2 needs to change in some pretty basic ways, imo.

Proof and citation of negative impact needed!

I dunno.. personally, and this is just me, but I think the fact that people are using DPS meters, is a sign that things have taken a negative direction.

thrag.9740:

Sooloo.1364:

I never understood why developers create content just for small segments of the community instead of everyone. This always leads to elitism and exclusion.

Your right, pvp should have never been created. The only content they should make is open world maps like auric basin.

In comparison to some of the modern MOBA’s coming out, MMO pvp is so unbalanced it’s painful that to even humor it as a viable form of an E-Sport PvP would be a joke. Which is why the pvP in GW2 never became an E-Sport, and not or lack of them trying, I have to give them credit, they did everything they could to make it happen, well, everything, beyond, you know, making balanced classes.

Now , Nothing against the players, and the people who put their all into it, but, the game design was is just so lopsided and skewed that it never was a test of a players skill as much as it was taking advantage of game mechanics, which resulted in making the fights in GW2 lackluster by virtue of an abundance of cheesy tactics and no solid form of any kind of checks and balances to the classes.

Don’t take my word for it either, if you really love PvP, give some of the modern MOBA’s a go, you might be amazed at how fast paced, engaging, and balanced the fights are in comparison to what GW2 offers you.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Champions Online permits player duels in PvE areas. So does WoW. People occasionally use this feature while waiting for someone to arrive for instances. If you fight where there are mobs, sometimes the mobs get in on the fight. No one complains. The games do not break. And, as zengara said, if one is dueling to pass the time, one stops when the thing waited for in the first place happens.

Sorry, but, in the games I played that had dueling, all I heard in was salty smack talk on map chat while I was trying to enjoy mindlessly killing mobs, not my idea of a fun night.

While I am sure that some people used it responsibility, the ones that won’t will ruin it for everyone.

Also, sPvP offers full leveling, access to skills, weapons and abilities to make the fights as fair a possible, all Dueling would offer, would be to make the fights as unbalanced as possible, as such I cannot think of a single advantage that dueling in PvE zones would provide.

Blaeys.3102:

Sooloo.1364:

I never understood why developers create content just for small segments of the community instead of everyone. This always leads to elitism and exclusion.

It has had a fairly negative impact on the game’s community.

And, even more unfortunate, if you try to bring it up on these forums, all you tend to get is “you’re imagining it – get over it and stop talking” style responses, which only further alienates people from the game mode.

The current implementation of raiding in GW2 needs to change in some pretty basic ways, imo.

Maybe not, what if, as opposed to linking the Raid to the Expansion, they simply sold Raids as Standalone Content, that way, they could invest more time into making them, thus making a better product that is it’s own thing, as opposed to just a tack-on to a larger project.

That way, people who loved to raid could buy raids, and the people that wanted nothing to do with them, could pass on that.

Now before anyone jumps on me about this, and asks if I would like this for other content, the answer is yes, because truth be told, I would so buy a dungeon X-pac, if that meant Anet made more story based dungeons with engaging yet comparably snore fest easy explorer paths that offered nothing more then special skins for weapons and armor.

I’d also support a Fractal X-pack, like T-5 Fractals, that way, it would ensure those that bought it, were serious about doing fractals.

I mean, LS3, since I was not around when it launched will cost me money to buy… and I have heard it’s worth it to buy it, so, why not apply that to other things like Raids, Dungeons and Fractals?

zengara.8301:

STIHL.2489:

If you want to duel, you an Go to the Guild Arena and fight.

You can go to an sPvP map and fight

You an go to a WvW map and fight.

People who want to fight other players can use these options.

The last thing PvE players need is a bunch of people with over inflated egos challenging everyone that does not agree with them to a duel.

On top of that, the last thing PvE maps need is the endless salty crying of wanna be pvp’ers.

I still honestly do not get that mindset. It is like you are differentiating the game between PvP´ers and PvE´ers.

No.. what I am doing is saving myself the annoyance of hearing a bunch of blowhards bragging about their elite dueling sills in Lions Arch, while challenging anyone and everyone to a duel, and then crying when they lose, while I am crafting, banking and doing mundane PvE tings.

The salty PvP smack talk is much better kept to Heart of the Mists, where it belongs.

If you want to duel, you an Go to the Guild Arena and fight.

You can go to an sPvP map and fight

You an go to a WvW map and fight.

People who want to fight other players can use these options.

The last thing PvE players need is a bunch of people with over inflated egos challenging everyone that does not agree with them to a duel.

On top of that, the last thing PvE maps need is the endless salty crying of wanna be pvp’ers.

I hate to say it, but the PvP in Trove felt much more balanced.

In fact, while enjoy the WvW of GW2, truth be told the balance among the classes is a joke, while it kinda evens out when zergs collide, in duels or small scale, the balance problems become glaringly evident.

MMO pvp honestly have never been good tho, it’s simply not possible to make a class that balanced for PvP and PvE, so GW2, is par for the course, but looks really pretty.

ilQr.1342:

Dueling in PvE.

It would be awesome if you could challenge a random person to a duel.

If you want to test yourself against a friend the ability is there, if you just want to attack people, that’s called PvP.. and there are maps just for that, be warned, people there are also looking to attack other people.

Gonna say. Nay to this. the last thing anyone needs on a PvE map is salty PvP spam.

Aomine.5012:

If I am in your position I’d just drop the game entirely.

I did stop the game entirely for a about a year after HoT, since I didn’t like the Expansion, and as you put it, there was no point to putter around Core if all the attention was on HoT, I left to other games.

I came back to look at PoF.

I might get it.. I might bugger off again.. jury is still out on that one.

Reading this topic is like reading all the reasons why I Pre-Purchased HoT.

HoT is why I am not re-purchasing PoF.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

I have got to ask, how does a level 50, get enough AR, to even enter a T4 fractal without getting eaten alive by Agony?

You can purchase as much AR as you like on the TP.

Ok.. Well, Wow, in the off chance this was not a total troll response, as far as I know, Agony Resist infusions can only be slotted it into Ascended Gear which is ML 80 (might be ML79 on some pieces).

So, I’ll ask you again.. how exactly does a level 50, get enough AR to enter a T4 fractal?

On the off chance that you’re not trolling, as I added above, “L50” might have been referring to personal fractal level. (There are also more than a few exotics that will take infusions.)

Besides, you don’t need any AR to enter a fractal. There are only a tiny number of spots where agony can’t be avoided (and some people are good enough at footwork to avoid all the others).

If someone is at Fractal level 50, would have the common sense by that point to know what the abbreviations mean in the LFG panel , so that makes no sense.

Lets get real, anyone who has the twitch to dance agony in a T4 fractal with what amounts to No AR, could out strip any elitist with a meta toon.. because.. kitten they are serious pro.

Also, Exotics are also level 80 (I believe 76 might be the ML, or some such)

I’m not altogether clear on your point now. Do you claim that everyone reads the LFG? Do you claim that people who do always respect the requirements?

The issue raised was that someone looking for an experienced group got people who were demonstrably inexperienced or otherwise not ready to do T4 dailies. You’re still quibbling about the details, rather than accepting that people organizing for challenging group content sometimes (even often) get people who aren’t prepared.

I asked above and I’ll ask again:

• If you join a group that’s asking for experience (or whatever), is it okay for the leader to /kick those who don’t have it?
• If you join a group that is “all welcome”, is it okay for the leader to /kick those who demonstrate they are looking only for an experienced group (e.g. they complain about folks with low DPS)?

It seems to me that using a DPS meter makes it easier for experienced people to find and group with other experienced people. And it also makes it easier for the inexperienced and those who don’t care to avoid folks focused on DPS. Regardless of the other pros/cons, that seems like a good thing for everyone.

My point, is that the hard gear requirement just to get enough AR to do fractals weans out the clueless players, as such, all these Elite Zerg players claiming to get plagued by noobs for T4 fractals, reeks of being a myth, a fable if you will, more then any real event, all said to justify their own elitism.

If you want to be an Elitist, just own it, don’t go blaming anyone else for your attitude, and if you are so plagued by “noobs” on your T4 fractal runs that you feel the need for 3rd party software to DPS check them, then, its time to face facts that Pugging is not for you. Find a Guild of like minded players and stick to static Fractal runs.

Dude, calm down. I don’t use a DPS meter. I don’t kick people from my groups. I’m not sure why you take umbrage whenever someone disagrees with you, so much so that you aren’t even reading what they write.

I’m asking if there are any situations in which you (or others) agree that it’s okay to kick someone from a group. Are there? Or do you think that people who use LFG should have to stick with whoever shows up, regardless of compatibility?

I don’t have a stake in your answer. It’s an honest question so I can better understand how other people see cooperative gaming, which I hope will make me a better team player.

Personally, unless I am running with like 4 guild mates and 1 random shows up and they are screwing up, I’m not gonna kick people.

There is a better then good chance if I am running a fractal with my guild mates, we could very easy carry someone without noticing anything if they were halfway decent.

But if they are making a spectacle of themselves, being a jerk, or directly hindering us, then they brought whatever comes upon themselves.

However, if I am just joining a Pug or leading one and I only have like 1 friend with me, and it looks like for whatever reason, we are not making this happen, I’ll just thank them for the group, explain that this is not working, and drop. Reform with my friend and put a new LFM up.

If the other 3 do eventually pull it off, maybe get someone better then me to make it work for them, Kudos. Everyone wins.

I don’t get the need for DPS meters, or whatever people use to justify a kick. Get in and game on.

Thought to Ponder: Every time you failed.. the only constant is you.

The Path Finder.3197:

Dear Fellow Guild Leaders & People who enjoy being in Guilds,

Enjoying freedom of “choice” of up to 5 Guilds is great for players!

Especially if they want to join a family Guild, make their own Guild, join a friends Guild, or join wvw/pve/raid/RP/pvp focused only Guild.

Now, there’s something missing here… for the bigger all rounder Guilds & Guild Leader/Officers…

And that is loyalty!

I would argue that people can be loyal to multiple Guilds, just like in some “cultures” people are ok, with multiple wives or husbands – I’m cool with that, its their choice.

But, GW2 has taken the choice away from the officers and leader of the Guild as to the way they’d like to manage their Guild.

Some Guild leaders may embrace open guilds, some might say rep us only! or some might not even care… and it shows in their effort towards their guilds too.

So… what to do, to make everyone happy?

Anyone can start a Guild and join one that they would like, if they can’t find one they like-they can start it but to force a Guild Leader to multi Guild due to peer pressure or due to that’s just the way it is – is well, not fair.

If someone decided to make for instance an all aspect full services Guild, it is VERY hard for that Guild to manage or undue admin burden to keep members not secretly multi guilding, since they can still rep and have other guilds they follow…

Yes, I read all the arguments for both why and why not – I understand both sides of the coin, with an open and a closed system, but hear me out:

• What if, Guild leaders have the ability to tick a box allowing or disallowing members to multi Guild?

• This give the Guild leader the freedom to choose, his Guild’s own fate.

• Players who enjoy multi guilds can still do so, and players who prefer closed tight knit groups (possibly of higher quality) closed guilds, now have the option of doing so.

• Then also, if possible, to allow the Leader to also choose complete multi Guilding or only allowing specific Guilds to be allied with. That way agreements can be made, alliances, and more structure if say a guild does not want complete multi guilding, but outsourcing their raids to a raid only guild or wvw only guild etc.

What do you think?

[Edit: Good point – there are those who have storage or dormant guilds: Solution, the Guild leader can tick a box next to their name on case-bycase basis for exption to the global policy, or to grant x access to x Guild: Be it bank Guild, family guild, etc.]

It helps to “regulate” the market for the Guild leader of his own Guild so to say, it places a fair balance in the players hands and the Guild ledaer"s"

Players can walk with their feet and join up to full spectrum/open multi guilds, or they could make due with the rules, of x Guild’s policy-No one is forcing them to join that spesfic Guild. People can then either advertise Open Guild/Closed Guild/Semi-Opened Guild in map chat.

[Edit: Please indicate if you’re a Guild leader/officer or a regular member and tell us a lil bit about your Guild, and its setup-is it 100% rep, allied, mixed, free for all open?-When you make a post.]

Thank you for your input even if it is Yay or Nay.

I’d be fine with giving Guild Leaders the option to make their guild 100% Rep.

But, I’m going to be honest, with PvE being mega-server and WvW being Server Restricted, it would be very hard to pull off.

maxwelgm.4315:

= You gotta understand the raiding community is tight-knit and very small (in NA even more so than EU if that’s your case). And like any small community, they are suspicious/aggressive towards newcomers, regardless of whether or not they are being kind enough to do their own training runs.

I am sorry to hear this, because, if the community that does raids does not grow, or a the very least attract new players, it will become stagnant, and, there is no profit in building content for a stagnant community, and thus raids will risk going the way of dungeons.

I don’t think anyone that loves raids wants that, so it’s in their own best interest to help invite people into raiding, to build and expand their community, not push people away.

Hyrai.8720:

so maybe it’s time for you “casuals” to step up and dedicate yourself a little more to the game, or accept that there is a huuuge playerbase that wants challenging content,

Can you Validate the Bold? Last I looked before I left, less then 20% of the player base even tried to do raids, They claimed it was as it attracted 20% of the players, as opposed to the typical 3 – 5 % among other games.

maybe as opposed to a level 80 boost, make them into level 20 Boosts, that way its 4 double clicks to 80th, and it’s still usable for people that may have a few experience scrolls sitting around.

I’m going to chime in and say I think these are bad ideas.

Mounts offer some special abilities, but they don’t seem to offer significant movement speed boost over my normal run speed, as such, trying to justify removing WP’s because we have mounts would be a massive negative.

If you want to run around on your mount, that is fine, you can take further away way points and run over, if that is what you enjoy, enjoy it, but not everyone wants to run everywhere, mount or no mount.

As for what would need to change, personally.. nothing, from what I have seen, the way they were put in does not break the Core game if they were added to it.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

I have got to ask, how does a level 50, get enough AR, to even enter a T4 fractal without getting eaten alive by Agony?

You can purchase as much AR as you like on the TP.

Ok.. Well, Wow, in the off chance this was not a total troll response, as far as I know, Agony Resist infusions can only be slotted it into Ascended Gear which is ML 80 (might be ML79 on some pieces).

So, I’ll ask you again.. how exactly does a level 50, get enough AR to enter a T4 fractal?

On the off chance that you’re not trolling, as I added above, “L50” might have been referring to personal fractal level. (There are also more than a few exotics that will take infusions.)

Besides, you don’t need any AR to enter a fractal. There are only a tiny number of spots where agony can’t be avoided (and some people are good enough at footwork to avoid all the others).

If someone is at Fractal level 50, would have the common sense by that point to know what the abbreviations mean in the LFG panel , so that makes no sense.

Lets get real, anyone who has the twitch to dance agony in a T4 fractal with what amounts to No AR, could out strip any elitist with a meta toon.. because.. kitten they are serious pro.

Also, Exotics are also level 80 (I believe 76 might be the ML, or some such)

I’m not altogether clear on your point now. Do you claim that everyone reads the LFG? Do you claim that people who do always respect the requirements?

The issue raised was that someone looking for an experienced group got people who were demonstrably inexperienced or otherwise not ready to do T4 dailies. You’re still quibbling about the details, rather than accepting that people organizing for challenging group content sometimes (even often) get people who aren’t prepared.

I asked above and I’ll ask again:

• If you join a group that’s asking for experience (or whatever), is it okay for the leader to /kick those who don’t have it?
• If you join a group that is “all welcome”, is it okay for the leader to /kick those who demonstrate they are looking only for an experienced group (e.g. they complain about folks with low DPS)?

It seems to me that using a DPS meter makes it easier for experienced people to find and group with other experienced people. And it also makes it easier for the inexperienced and those who don’t care to avoid folks focused on DPS. Regardless of the other pros/cons, that seems like a good thing for everyone.

My point, is that the hard gear requirement just to get enough AR to do fractals weans out the clueless players, as such, all these Elite Zerg players claiming to get plagued by noobs for T4 fractals, reeks of being a myth, a fable if you will, more then any real event, all said to justify their own elitism.

If you want to be an Elitist, just own it, don’t go blaming anyone else for your attitude, and if you are so plagued by “noobs” on your T4 fractal runs that you feel the need for 3rd party software to DPS check them, then, its time to face facts that Pugging is not for you. Find a Guild of like minded players and stick to static Fractal runs.

Meh, if this goes live, I’ll just buy some endless ‘Identify-o-tron’ or something. not really an issue to me, maybe toss one in with the big packed of the expansion to make the players who bought that feel better..

zoomborg.9462:

It’s quite a surprise that no1 mentioned the big big QoL update anet released last spring.

That would be because I left the game before that came about. I did mention that I have noticed that HoT is easier then I remember, while it still feels like a rat-maze, it’s much easier to just move about, explore and get around it now.

GreyWolf.8670:

zoomborg.9462:

It’s quite a surprise that no1 mentioned the big big QoL update anet released last spring. B4 that all the wp in the HoT maps were locked until u did all the events, same went for adventures as most were locked until u did the whole meta and then had mb 10min to do the afdventures and u had the participation system were u had to reach 200% to get the most rewards. U basically had to invest 1+ hour in a single meta while now u can just hop on and reap all the rewards.

No1 also talked about the locked merchants that also got unlocked after the update. I remember having to do a whole cycle of ds just to talk to the merchant to get a gift or a machined sword or an insignia/inscription. Anet does remember the casuals and this was the biggest proof there ever was. And u literally couldnt progress on a map with no 30 people doing all the events so if u were playing on odd hours that was a nightmare.

Mind u that was pretty early and came due to the outcry that everything run on a very strict clock making it feel like a job instead of a game. In OP’s mind HoT might still not be casual friendly, the bigger picture however suggests otherwise.

They were not. No waypoints were locked in HoT except for Dragon’s Stand. All others were always available unless they were contested.

That is what they are were talking about, the Waypoints were contested/locked-up until events were completed, Now they are no longer such.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

I have got to ask, how does a level 50, get enough AR, to even enter a T4 fractal without getting eaten alive by Agony?

You can purchase as much AR as you like on the TP.

Ok.. Well, Wow, in the off chance this was not a total troll response, as far as I know, Agony Resist infusions can only be slotted it into Ascended Gear which is ML 80 (might be ML79 on some pieces).

So, I’ll ask you again.. how exactly does a level 50, get enough AR to enter a T4 fractal?

On the off chance that you’re not trolling, as I added above, “L50” might have been referring to personal fractal level. (There are also more than a few exotics that will take infusions.)

Besides, you don’t need any AR to enter a fractal. There are only a tiny number of spots where agony can’t be avoided (and some people are good enough at footwork to avoid all the others).

If someone is at Fractal level 50, would have the common sense by that point to know what the abbreviations mean in the LFG panel , so that makes no sense.

Lets get real, anyone who has the twitch to dance agony in a T4 fractal with what amounts to No AR, could out strip any elitist with a meta toon.. because.. kitten they are serious pro.

Also, Exotics are also level 80 (I believe 76 might be the ML, or some such)

Manijin.3428:

STIHL.2489:

You’re about 2 years late for the kind of care to have that discussion anymore, and truth be told, I have zero desire to repeat what others before me already said, since for the most part, they said it better then I could.

I am sure the Topics are still round here someplace, maybe in the HoT sub forums, feel free to peruse them, I am sure there might be still be a dozen or so left that only got locked and not deleted.

So… basically, instead of answering my questions, you claim that I don’t really care?

No. I am claiming that I (me) don’t care enough to rehash old arguments. It was not fun then, I doesn’t feel like fun now.

It was a subject that spanned thousands of posts, I doubt it was an ‘easy answer’. As for HoT, it still feels like the same old Rat-Maze it felt like when I first played it.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

STIHL.2489:

I have got to ask, how does a level 50, get enough AR, to even enter a T4 fractal without getting eaten alive by Agony?

You can purchase as much AR as you like on the TP.

Ok.. Well, Wow, in the off chance this was not a total troll response, as far as I know, Agony Resist infusions can only be slotted it into Ascended Gear which is ML 80 (might be ML79 on some pieces).

So, I’ll ask you again.. how exactly does a level 50, get enough AR to enter a T4 fractal?

Also, I have got to ask all the people with their DPS meters and some such, why don’t you just build static groups?

Not trying to be rude in any way, but, lets be honest with ourselves here, if you are that unhappy pugging, then maybe pugging is not for you.

I have got to ask, how does a level 50, get enough AR, to even enter a T4 fractal without getting eaten alive by Agony?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Assuming there are still “allowed” DPS meters (which seems like a safe assumption), how about a toggle when you make an LFG group? It would say, “DPS meter in use.” That way, anyone who likes them could join, and those who dislike like them could opt not to.

I’m going to assume people will say, “No!” to that suggestion.

I love this Idea, I mean at first I wanted to put in some kind of hard gear check for raids like AR provides for fractals, that way people would have needed to invest in their gear and character to progress, but, as irony would have it, it was the hardcore players that cried NO to that one. Yes the same people that are now using DPS meters did not want to put in a hard gear check in the raid. How’s that for irony.

Anyway moving on.

I love this idea !

Have a toggle on the LFG panel that all DPS/All gear will be open for inspection by anyone, (perhaps a Green OPEN and a red CLOSE) toggle for the LFG panel regarding gear inspection, so, everyone can see who has what gear and build, like a Limited Hero panel type of inspection, where we can see just their equipment and traits by clicking their name, and their Overall DPS clicks in a Number next to their name, both a flat number and their percent of overall damage to the Raid Mob.

I think it would be a great addition to the game, not only would it help elitist be more elitist, which, we might as well at this point, Guild mates and friends could have private groups, inspect each others gear in real time and offer advice on how to improve, what to get, etc. So it could be a useful tool for both being a snobby elitist and a friendly vet.

CptAurellian.9537:

STIHL.2489:

Now, In all my time, I never saw a ‘goof around’ or “test” build running in anything above T1

Go pugging T4 fractals for a while and tell me what you’ve seen.

I don’t do T4 fractals, my only fractal ready character is an old school Shout Guard (before elite spec) and I just never had the urge to go though the effort it would take to rebuild into whatever the new meta is, it rocked solid in T2/T3 but when I tried to do T4, it felt lacking. Happens I guess when you put a lot of time into something and don’t feel the urge to re-build them.

I’ll stick with what I got however, if that means I remain stuck at T2/T3.. then I guess that is where I’ll stop, I seemed to be having the most fun there anyway, as I never felt the need to use DPS meters or go into have rage fits about what the person next to me playing, or worried about if a fractal took us 40 min as opposed 20.

To each their own, if DPS meters, raging about builds, and watching the clock like you are getting paid by the job works for you.. then I guess rock on (without me tho)

TheRandomGuy.7246:

STIHL.2489:

Considering that it takes full ascended to get enough AR to even have a chance to run T4 (or amazing twitch skill for some fractals), I have no idea how you attract people who put that kind of investment into what would be a poorly done builds. Might be an issue among your social circles to be able to waste that kind of resources on flavor and test builds.

It is not that impressive now. They added a lot of different and easy ways to get ascended gear and AR in the last few months. It is not that rare to meet someone with 150 AR and have absolutely no idea how fractals work.

That’s a pity.. maybe they should make the infusions account bound, to fix that little problem.

Also.. why would anyone want a high Agony, if they are not serious about Fractals?

Manijin.3428:

Djinn.9245:

Manijin.3428:

To answer the original question: Yes, ANet has remembered the casuals.

I didn’t see any evidence of this with HoT. The LS3 maps were more friendly, but those were already in production when HoT came out so are not necessarily in response to the problems people had with HoT. I will wait to see what PoF is like before coming to any conclusions about whether Anet still cares about all the casual players that made GW2 a success at launch.

How? Each map has soloable content, the story has very few steps (arguably too few, but that’s another matter), the mobs all have fairly simple mechanics, and if your goal is simply sitting down to play for a little bit, the HoT maps are just as serviceable as most core maps, with the sole exception of Dragon’s Stand, which is more of a zerg map than anything else.

Getting mastery points isn’t terribly difficult, many hero points have multiple people working on them anyways, and there are lots that don’t require more than a button press, just like in core Tyria.

So what do you count as evidence that casual player’s needs are being met? Let’s get rid of the definition of the word “casual”, and just focus on the practical elements of the word. What content meets the satisfaction of casual play, and what content is lacking from HoT that would facilitate casual play?

You’re about 2 years late for the kind of care to have that discussion anymore, and truth be told, I have zero desire to repeat what others before me already said, since for the most part, they said it better then I could.

I am sure the Topics are still round here someplace, maybe in the HoT sub forums, feel free to peruse them, I am sure there might be still be a dozen or so left that only got locked and not deleted.

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

This is such a bunch of nonsense. Where has the OP been clear about his definition of casual?

In several posts, including just before your post here.

AliamRationem.5172:

He took his own advice and left, but he never got over it and he’s back to argue the merits of it. Has ANet remembered the casuals? Yes. But that doesn’t mean the OP is going to get what he wants.

If you actually read the OP’s posts, he’s back because of PoF and wants to determine whether Anet has changed direction any from HoT. It’s actually pretty clear.

Well I thought it was pretty clear. which is making me wonder why it is acceptable to say things like “Learn to Play” or “git gud” when a player is struggling, but when people can’t seem to follow a simple point on a forum post, saying “learn to Read” is considered insulting and wrong?

Ardid.7203:

The OP didn’t used the word “Casual” in the opening post to clarify his point and elaborate a clear question.

Quite the oposite.

He used the word “Casual” to give an artificial weight to his general opinion in the thread through a false sense of representation of a certain “group”. Then left an open ended question to generate debate.

His specific definition of “Casual” came in much later, when the thread had already devolved into a fist salad.

As I am starting to see, so the problem with this topic is that I did not start it with one of those big red Q’s, as such it seems that many of the people coming to this topic can’t seem to figure out that I was asking a question, not making a statement.

I’ll have to keep that in mind in the future, and now it suddenly makes sense why Anet put in the option for those big red Q’s.

Zenith.7301:

STIHL.2489:

Feanor.2358:

First and foremost, it’s jumping to conclusions to state dps meters are a cause for anything. Again, toxicity existed before dps meters.

You would be correct, DPS meters do not cause players to be Toxic, they are the byproduct of the community reaching levels of toxicity to which they would believe that it is acceptable to resort to using DPS meters.

So there is correlation, just, in the sense Toxic communities lead to DPS maters.. not the other way around.

There’s nothing toxic about me not wanting to deal with a knights stat greatsword reaper who doesn’t break cc bars let alone allows trash mobs like in snowblind final boss or dredge/fire elementals to live for so long that your group struggles.

It’s even worse in Cliffside where you’re trying to clear the arms but mobs take so long to die that the veteran cultists tear apart the team because you’re not clearing fast enough.

Not even going to talk about Shattered Observatory or Nightmare fractals.

Before I left I used to love me some daily fractals, now I am not that serious, so I mainly stayed in the T2/T3 range, with the sometimes doing T1 for giggles if fiend/guild mate didn’t have enough AR.

Now, In all my time, I never saw a ‘goof around’ or “test” build running in anything above T1, (yah T1 is always rife with flavor builds), now to be fair, I would come across a few outdated meta’s or people that didn’t want to elite spec, but they were always rocking a tried and dependable build.

Now, I don’t know what kind of people you attract, but I am not sane, and I would just take anyone that had enough AR, and say things like "Everyone Welcome, 70 AR) (I would say 70 AR, so we could all do any T2 fractal that came up on the daily, it was always safer that way)

Considering that it takes full ascended to get enough AR to even have a chance to run T4 (or amazing twitch skill for some fractals), I have no idea how you attract people who put that kind of investment into what would be a poorly done builds. Might be an issue among your social circles to be able to waste that kind of resources on flavor and test builds.

But as for me personally, Never seen this, and truth be told, it sounds more like a fable that gets perpetuated to justify being toxic then it has anything to do with the reality of the game.

I can see this being an issue in Raids as they have no hard Check like AR, so anyone can just show up with any build, but again, that would be a problem that arose from raids, and nothing to do with fractals.

Feanor.2358:

First and foremost, it’s jumping to conclusions to state dps meters are a cause for anything. Again, toxicity existed before dps meters.

You would be correct, DPS meters do not cause players to be Toxic, they are the byproduct of the community reaching levels of toxicity to which they would believe that it is acceptable to resort to using DPS meters.

So there is correlation, just, in the sense Toxic communities lead to DPS maters.. not the other way around.

Feanor.2358:

TheGrimm.5624:

There are champ trains that have been removed from the game in the past since they were deemed by ANet for creating negative environments. Denying that is wrong.

Then why are there still champ trains?

Because not ALL of them were creating a Toxic environment, so the ones that still fostered community were left in.

Anzriel.1398:

VaLee.5102:

Just think about it, 3 years ago this topic wouldn’t have existed, and ingame it’s way worse.
It’s still a good community, but the introductions of raids cracked a huge rift between different segments of the population, and this is not good on the long run.
The amount of salt on one side, and elitism on the other, is quickly growing to WoW levels, and people who stayed in GW2 due to the community, will leave eventually.

Food for thought.

This happened before raids, just with speedrunning dungeons, fractals to a lesser extent and pvp. None of this has changed at all since fractals were the “endgame PvE” and speedrunning dungeons was how a lot of people competed.

Well given that when Fractals were the End Game, having enough AR pretty much set if you knew how to play, as it was often taken that if you were smart enough to learn about and get AR, you had a clue. Which is a nice method to use, a mechanic that sets the stage for dividing up people who are vested and those who are not.

Today, as I understand it, we have people using 3rd party software to monitor and spy on other peoples builds and DPS.

So, yes a lot has changed and none of it for the better, since the Arrival of Raids.

But such is what it is, the two choices are, and will remain.. Play it as it is, or move on to something else.

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Djinn.9245:

Dashingsteel.3410:

already been through it???? What did everyone decide the definition of casual is?

Read the thread.

I did and I’m still don’t see where people agreed about the definition. It’s a poor word choice to get the OP’s point across and I really wish y’all would stop using it.

I didn’t say we agreed about the definition, I said we had been through the discussion about it. Yes there were a variety of ideas about “casual”, but the general rule of forums is that you stick to the OP’s topic in a thread. The OP has defined what he means by “casual” so nothing more need be said. This thread is about the OP’s definition of “casual”. If people don’t agree with the OP’s definition or don’t want to talk about “casual” as the OP defines it they should not be replying to this thread. They should start their own thread. The only reason to continue arguing about “casual” is to be pedantic.

The instant the OP chose to assign his definition of the label to others, a central tenet to the title and original post, he created the debate about the definition and applicability of the term.

Had he restricted his point to whether or not ANet remembered him, and his playstyle, I would agree with you.

To be fair, I used the Term Casual, in it’s intended usage when applied to activities, I did not invent or try to re-define what Casual meant, I used Causal in the same application that it would be used to say “take a Casual walk” or a “Casual bike Ride”

While it seems that as far as games have gone, some people have tried to warp the term Casual into meaning a lack of skill or time, I would surmise o try and turn it into an Insult, Ergo “Filthy Casual”, but, since that is nothing more then a colloquialism, I am under no obligation to use or respect that terminology.

I used the Term casual as it would have been applied to any activity, I have no intention to give video games some special privileged that would not offer someone that plays Rugby Casually.

That being said, a lot of my reasons for leaving to the game were voiced when HoT came out by many other players self identifying as Casuals, as such, since I shared many feelings and points with that demographic, it stood to reason that I too was a casual.

I never just woke up and said “I’m casual gamer” or that “I identify with the Casual Gamers” I realized after reading their posts, that I feel into their demographic by virtue that we shared many of the same feelings about the game.

Now if someone wants to come to this topic and claim to be a casual, and yet, not share any traits with the other casuals posting here, it might be time to realize that you’re not really a casual players, maybe you are something else? The world is not Casual or Hardcore, you can take a Brisk walk, and not feel that it needed to be a Hardcore walk, or a Casual Walk.. Just saying.

While I would have loved to get Bard as a stand alone class, with their own elite spec. I suppose making Bard an elite spec off Thief/Mesmer, would also work.

Personally I would like to see it added to Thief over Mesmer, because then maybe they could make a type of Thief that did not feel tacky and cheesy to play.

As of late, I have been trying to get back into playing the game again just in case the PoF expansion turns out to be really attractive to me. That being said, it’s a bit tricky to walk in the door at 80th, after a year of playing other games that are noting at all like this one, so I am going though a whole lot of leaning to play again, but, I stop in from time to time on this topic, as I play GW2 and other games. I have gotten a lot more of the HoT Story done this time around, as in.. I never got past the starting of the HoT story my first time in, so there is that, I also finally just got Gliding to the point that I on’t use stamina anymore.. and.. for as far as HoT goes, while it does directly look like they cut down on the mob density, but, I still do not like trying to transverse the multi-level maps.

Having some tiers to a map, to give caverns, high regions, that kind of thing adds depth to the game, and is a great fixture to any environment, but when the whole map is this knot-work of up and down, it’s far more an annoyance then an exploratory journey to me.

Simply put, after a year and giving the HoT maps another go, I can say, these maps will never grow on me.

I’ll be honest, since I only saw a sampling of PoF, I am still very tentative about buying it,
in case it does turn into a huge multi-layered confusing mess that HoT feels like, I will not be investing into it at all.

Now, I want to be clear, I am Not asking for any changes to be made , not asking to be catered to, I also am not going to regurgitate all the points across all the great many topics that had been made when HoT first came out. If anyone is wondering about the feels and reactions, they can read what was said by many of the other casual players around the same time I was making the decision to depart, but, truth be told, I left for the very reasons they all mentioned.

Now, This, this is just me checking the product and seeing if I like it. Either I will or I won’t.. I am not going to cry one way or another about it.

Lokki.1092:

STIHL.2489:

Lokki.1092:

Uhh… Casual doesn’t mean bad at the game.
Do you think casual means being bad at a game?

Casual means casual… relaxed and unconcerned, not regular or permanent, or a person who does something irregularly.

That isn’t the same as being bad at the game.

You can be casual, playing when you want, for short amounts of time, and never investing too much into the game, while also understanding how to play your character well. Just because I casually play Super Mario 3 one weekend doesn’t mean I’m bad at playing the game. It just means I played the game with no real goal, and likely didn’t beat it.

I’v already covered this, and said it better.

STIHL.2489:

“Casual” is a mindset, or more aptly put, an approach on how someone plays the game. In simple terms, “casual” defines their motive and drive, as opposed to being serious about the game, or hardcore. Truth is, being “Casual” is irrespective of skill or time played. As how many hours someone invests into a game or how skilled they are at playing a game, have no bearing the mindset they have or how they approach the game.

In short, a “Casual” is not looking for a something serious that they have to work at or treat like a job, they are looking to escape into a fantasy world as someone might take a casual stroll in the woods to escape the daily grind of life.

But feel free to bring your arguments to this person, who actually disagrees with you.

IndigoSundown.5419:

there is a specific definition of the word casual as it is used in video games which states that either skill, time commitment or both are defining factors.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/casual

Words evolve. We either adapt and use them as they are being used in specific contexts or we don’t. Stick with your definition if you like, but you will continue to be misunderstood by some posters and some of the information you get will be unhelpful as a result.

figured you missed at these exchanges, it would do you good to read the whole topic at leas before making all kinds of assumptions.

Either you understand that Casual does not mean bad at the game, but in spite of that understanding still maintain that you being bad at the game was implied by you saying you were casual.

Or you are just being contrary… for reasons.

My only point was that as a casual GW2 player, I liked HOT fine. As a casual player I Love the casual pace and play of GW2 as a whole and as a casual player I cannot wait to get to POF. And if you are a casual player you may enjoy it as well. So far it seems to be as casual as the rest of this game, which is likely the most casual MMO to ever exist. Unless you count zero player games.

or maybe I was being sarcastic.

Game of Bones.8975:

What is the rational for only allowing G1 Legendary to be sold? Why not allow all non-bound items to be sold? Wouldn’t this also be good for the game economy?

People who may not ever want to use a legendary shield won’t craft it, but if they can sell it for a profit, it may be worth it.

IIRC, all parts and steps of the G2 Legendary Weapons are Bound, as such the Final Legendary is bound, the G1, the Precursor is unbound, ergo the Legendary weapon is also Unbound.

Snowywonders.1378:

Daddicus.6128:

Hannelore.8153:

From my time on these forums I’ve determined that casual means the following:
- Completely flat map with uninteresting terrain that is easy to cross
- Speed across entire map in an instant, preferably by teleporting (somehow, having this ability is necessary alongside also having a flat map)
- Spend a few seconds only killing a mob by only pressing one button
- Overcome all challenges even in extremely inefficient gear and builds, without having to think about complexity
- Do not require other players for any event, not even group events
- No aggro from mobs, no skills from mobs, no danger from mobs
- No CC, no conditions, nothing that requires any kind of counter-play or quick thinking
- Everything as quick as possible, everyone is busy busy these days, can’t stop to actually play a game
- Always rewards, even for doing nothing at all
- Define fun as the embodiment of getting things for nothing, instead of immersion, challenge or time investment

More that I forget, but we all know what they are by now.

All 10 of your points are demonstrably false. Try again.

Except they are not. You need not look further than this thread. Try again. Actually, that would imply you already did. Just try, once.

Except they have been.
Right here.

mbhalo.1547:

I consider myself a casual player – 4000 hours played, 16k AP, 5 legendary weapons + legendary backpack, do T4 fractals almost every day and here and there dabble into raiding. I had some troubles with HoT initially and even posted angry rants about it. But after some time everything became piece of cake. I know all HoT maps like my own backyard, finished all HoT story and maps achievements and now i don’t have any trouble running in the jungle on pure glass builds.

Unless you all have done better, you have no say on anything negative about a casuals investment into a game.

Vayne.8563:

STIHL.2489:

Vayne.8563:

STIHL.2489:

Rhanoa.3960:

Vayne.8563:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Daddicus.6128:

Rhanoa.3960:

Has the game really failed? Far from it.

Nobody said it did; well, nobody other than you.

We said Heart of Thorns failed. Which it did.

It did not, not by any reasonable measure. It didn’t do as well as predicted, which is very different.

You realize that not meeting predictions, is Failure.. right?

forecast that’d we’d make a certain profit, but something would happen and we made less. But the business wasn’t failing. The prediction didn’t take into account certain realities we’d be unaware of.

Based off the OPs statements throughout this thread, I really hope he is not a hiring manager.

I’d be offended, but, I read what you think retaining clients means, and the fact that Vayne does not seem to grasp the very profound difference between RoI and just making a sales goal… I simply can’t be.

In order for HoT to be a failure, you’d have to prove a couple of things. First, that more people left because of HOT, or stopped playing because of it than people who came back or started ;playing. That’s almost impossible to prove either way.

You can say a certain percentage of people didn’t like HoT. It’s true.

As for ROI, unless you work for Anet’s account department or management, you have no way to know the ROI on HoT. You’d be guessing at best.

The nice flat casual friendly maps of PoE.. tell me all I need to know.

You saw a small section of one map and you judge the expansion by that. How about the very very large not flat vertical maps like Draconis Mons and Siren’s Landing, both of which took about six months to make if interviews are anything to go by.

Anet could have made flatter maps if maps being flat was an issue. They also said there would be 3d areas in the desert, so I’m thinking this is wishful thinking on your part.

You’re so convinced something is try you’re willing to use evidence to believe it while ignoring all the other evidence.

Mo did say that it takes about 6 months to build a new zone from scratch. HoT is going to 2 years old, which means it was a year old when the last two zones were designed and I would guess a flatter map would be faster to design.

So yeah, I’ll go with wishful thinking here.

So.. are you being wishful that there will be vertical maps to justify what you want to believe, or are you being wishful that the new maps being flatter and easier to transverse is just coincidence to justify what you want to believe?

In either case, that is why I am being very tentative with this new expansion.

Lokki.1092:

Uhh… Casual doesn’t mean bad at the game.
Do you think casual means being bad at a game?

Casual means casual… relaxed and unconcerned, not regular or permanent, or a person who does something irregularly.

That isn’t the same as being bad at the game.

You can be casual, playing when you want, for short amounts of time, and never investing too much into the game, while also understanding how to play your character well. Just because I casually play Super Mario 3 one weekend doesn’t mean I’m bad at playing the game. It just means I played the game with no real goal, and likely didn’t beat it.

I’v already covered this, and said it better.

STIHL.2489:

“Casual” is a mindset, or more aptly put, an approach on how someone plays the game. In simple terms, “casual” defines their motive and drive, as opposed to being serious about the game, or hardcore. Truth is, being “Casual” is irrespective of skill or time played. As how many hours someone invests into a game or how skilled they are at playing a game, have no bearing the mindset they have or how they approach the game.

In short, a “Casual” is not looking for a something serious that they have to work at or treat like a job, they are looking to escape into a fantasy world as someone might take a casual stroll in the woods to escape the daily grind of life.

But feel free to bring your arguments to this person, who actually disagrees with you.

IndigoSundown.5419:

there is a specific definition of the word casual as it is used in video games which states that either skill, time commitment or both are defining factors.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/casual

Words evolve. We either adapt and use them as they are being used in specific contexts or we don’t. Stick with your definition if you like, but you will continue to be misunderstood by some posters and some of the information you get will be unhelpful as a result.

figured you missed at these exchanges, it would do you good to read the whole topic at leas before making all kinds of assumptions.

Djinn.9245:

Lokki.1092:

STIHL.2489:

Rhanoa.3960:

STIHL.2489:

Djinn.9245:

STIHL.2489:

maddoctor.2738:

STIHL.2489:

Well I spent a little time back in VB , and I have noticed there are a lot less mobs floating around, and they seem much easier then I remember.

They did not change mob spawns in VB it’s same as it was at launch. As for difficulty, the only thing I remember changing was the itzel shadowleaper ability to evade ranged attacks, it know evades projectiles not all ranged attacks if I’m not mistaken. If anything, at launch it was easier due to the number of players around.

Of course if you were trying to move through while the dozens of players were fighting in events, it was more than likely you had to fight event-scaled mobs and maybe those caused you all that trouble. Spawning scaling mobs is the normal thing to do even on core tyria maps, try moving through the area around Tequatl when the event is active and you will notice mobs that 1-shot you, or moving between the Penit-Shelter waypoints in Cursed Shore while either event is ongoing. That’s not HoT-specific

Humm, well it felt like such a slog the first few months I tried to play, to the point that exploring was not so much about exploring and seeing the zone and looking at what was about, it was all nothing but these endless stupid hard fights… all the time.

Also I did a flamethrower engineer for the stability boon in HoT, because all that stuff has those stupid knock backs.

Understand that what you are responding to is an opinion presented as fact. There is no hard data on exactly what was changed. It is my opinion that people who liked HoT quickly became acclimated to the mobs / maps and so didn’t find them as difficult as I and many other casual players did in the first place.

Well I just got back over a long absence, and have no idea how most of m skills work.. as such my play-style at time looks like this.. .

And somewhere in there it’s the games fault, never the player.

Wait, so what you are saying is that it is the players fault for any game they don’t like?
or put another way, you are saying that it’s your fault for no liking games like Archeage and Blackgold?

Well, I an’t say I will agree with you, but if blaming yourself for every game you don’t like works for you.. keep at it.

Seems like the implication is that you seem to be admitting you have no idea how to play your class, or this game.

That doesn’t mean the game is hard, it just means you have no idea how to play (by your own admission).

Coming to the conclusion that the game is too hard and therefore a bad game, seems shortsighted and placing the blame on someone else rather than yourself.

I’m not responding to Rhanoa’s rude post because I hope it will soon be removed. However, both of you seem to have failed to read STIHL’s words about not playing HoT and not playing at all from HoT intro until recently. STIHL’s skills now have nothing to do with his original comment about HoT. R.I.F.

You are always on the ball. I have got to give you that. Yah, I thought I made it clear that I was returning after a years absence.

But you know, some people just always looking for something to jump on.

Rashagar.8349:

STIHL.2489:

Lokki.1092:

Seems like the implication is that you seem to be admitting you have no idea how to play your class, or this game.

If I am admitting I have no idea how play.. I’m not blaming the game, now am I ?

hence.. Admitting I am bad.

(and yah, I just came after a year.. I have no idea what I am doing, hence the Gif I linked)

So it seems they were just trying to be insulting and failing miserably and I should have put a faceplam gif up, but those are so tasteless and tacky, eww.

But if you’re bad at the game then your opinion, no matter what it is, is wrong! (As long as someone who hasn’t admitted they’re bad at the game disagrees with you.)
Don’t you know anything? =P

*edit: apologies if this joke feels like not a joke or something

But.. But.. I even put casual in the title… how dare people with a clue respond!

Lokki.1092:

Seems like the implication is that you seem to be admitting you have no idea how to play your class, or this game.

If I am admitting I have no idea how play.. I’m not blaming the game, now am I ?

hence.. Admitting I am bad.

(and yah, I just came after a year.. I have no idea what I am doing, hence the Gif I linked)

So it seems they were just trying to be insulting and failing miserably and I should have put a faceplam gif up, but those are so tasteless and tacky, eww.

Verthiss.9541:

- put a green story star in the corner of the screen immediately after tutorial instance. The star could tell players something like “do hearts and events until you are level 10, that’s when your story starts!” or anything like it. People often just get lost after tutorial, they are looking for quests that are not present in the game. Now I know that we have scouts but a short description in the corner of the screen that i s always up would be much more effective

What are your thoughts and suggestions?

I like this one.