There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
One answer would be to build more content geared towards casual players, that has equal rewards to raids, and feels “end game”, right now the ‘end game’ is all about raids, where at one time there is a vibrant “Choose your own end game” where you could do all kinds of things, now there is only raids. So if they somehow (No idea how) manage to bring back that original lateral end game that they once had, that might fix the problem, but lets get real, doing that would take a ton of time and resources.
Raids as endgame content drop rewards that seem to take a lot of repetition. Afaik, no one has made L. Armor yet. There is a skill gate, and a time gate associated with those rewards.
HoT dropped a ton of “endgame” open world content. This came in the form of multiple goals, many boss battles, and several zone meta events. However, when ANet attempts to make the repetition of such content anything even in the same ballpark as they did for raids, they get lambasted for making content not geared towards “casuals.” People post hate for time gates. Others post hate for skill gates.
The raid came split into three parts. Raiders are still doing all three, religiously, afaik. Open PvE aficionados, on the other hand, are already treating HoT as old content not worth doing. There’s plenty of “endgame” content for open PvE players, but they turn their backs on it because they browbeat ANet into making it easier to get the carrots. So, they’re done with it and ready for something else. The problem is, that isn’t how MMO’s work.
There are times I think the complaining casuals are their own worst enemies.
Lets get something clear here, HOT content among Casuals, is a “never was”, between the long drawn out chained together meta’s and mob density, with everything being scaled to be just a little bit harder I don’t think they could have done a better job of alienating the Casual group, if they tried, and you know, if not for their sudden change, it kitten well looked like that was their intention. The only people that ground HoT Open World were Content Locusts not Casuals, there is no surprise that group devoured what they could and moved on, treating it like yesterdays trash, and no wonder it feels old and worn out now, since it was literally anti-Casual content, which would have been the group of players that would have moved in and carried the population for the later months and years, making it feel alive. But given how badly against Casual Play All of the HoT content was designed, it’s no wonder that HOT Bombed as bad as it did.
Yah, we all know that Anet realized their total screw up, and dialed it all back, and pumped it full of rewards, and whatever else they did to try to make it attractive, but all that did was get some ‘hard core’ gamers a playground to grind it for loot, it did not really bring the casual group back into it.
You want to talk about a total blunder in the PR department far as GW2 being marketed as Casual Friendly, HOT was like a shot in the head. Nothing about it was attractive to the casual demographic, and the next Expansion, I’m gonna bet bombs so bad, it won’t even be funny.
Is it all because of raids.. Not at all!. It was this massive package of “Lets kitten this entire Casual Demographic” called HoT, and there were issues long before the first raid wing was put in, it was just a really bad package, coupled with the fact that Raids were the only new thing seen in several months, being that final nail in the coffin.
They could have put out some stupid spring festival for casuals to grind, to distract from the whole lack of anything but raids, and that would have done wonders to build relations, but too late for that.
Anyway, love the post. Great Props, and lets not start any name calling we both know my feeling about Elitist.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
(edited by STIHL.2489)
I don’t think removing raids is the answer. But raiding has changed the nature of the game and it is definitely not for the better.
GW2 is no longer the friendliest community in MMO gaming – something the developers bragged about at one point. If anything, it is now one of the most toxic environments in gaming. That is evident both on these forums and in the game itself.
And, that is because of how they chose to implement raids. When you build PVE content for segments of your population based on difficulty (with no provisions for the rest of your PVE community), you can’t then be surprised when the community fractures into opposing factions based on those segments.
Yes some of this existed with dungeons before, but the current toxicity around group (and even guild) kicks and elitism can be traced back to the introduction of raiding in its current form. Enrage timers (with no other form of raiding) and other similar artificial barriers only serve to punish diversity and limit strategic choices. This causes people to single out those who do not conform to a specific meta or playstyle. In fractals and dungeons (even the hardest ones), these lines were still there, but they were much grayer. In raids, because of enrage timers, its often now “play my way or GTFO.”
Every other raiding MMO out there sees this and makes provisions for it. Whether they use multiple raid tiers (preferred solution) or natural content obsolescence through gear and level treadmills (no a good solution for GW2), they realize (or came to realize over time) he importance of including all PVE players (especially where story is involved). And Astralporing is definitely right about LFR (and more recently flex raiding) in WoW – it didn’t kill game interest. If anything, it justified continue investment in raids – and, based on what my friends say, actually saved the game.
I will say it again. Raiding has changed GW2 – and not for the better. That doesn’t mean raiding (even at its current or higher difficulty) doesn’t have a place in the game.
It just means that locking one aspect of PVE away and saying “this is where the big kids play” is (of course) going to create (actually has created) cliques in the game in ways that other content approaches never did.
GW2 went from one of the friendliest communities around to one where certain groups of player now feel superior to others and are happy to call attention to that through insults, nasty posts on the forums, exclusionary behavior in game and many other ways.
I want the GW2 community we had in the first few years of the game back – and Anet can make that happen. Stop with the walled off content – build a game for everyone and then look at how you can add in tiered difficulty (through levels, challenge motes, achievements, etc) to ensure the game remain engaging for all.
You have a point about the community, many mmorpgs start with raids so it’s hard to notice what they can do to a community, but as you said getting rid if raids is not the answers.
Getting rid of raids is not the answer, that wine bottle can’t be unopened, and nerfing the raids is also not the answer. Casual Raids are a bad idea, that would be Anet saying that everyone needs to do raids which is a Very, Very, Bad Idea.
One answer would be to build more content geared towards casual players, that has equal rewards to raids, and feels “end game”, right now the ‘end game’ is all about raids, where at one time there is a vibrant “Choose your own end game” where you could do all kinds of things, now there is only raids. So if they somehow (No idea how) manage to bring back that original lateral end game that they once had, that might fix the problem, but lets get real, doing that would take a ton of time and resources.
So, Assuming they don’t drive off their casual population before they can make these changes, it could work, but it’s a time issue, something that should have been considered before Raids ever got put in.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
(edited by STIHL.2489)
Want casual content? Play Central Tyria.
or better yet.. some other game!
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
People born in the 1950s and 1960s were somewhere near the age of 25 when the first Personal Computers went for sale to the public. During the next 35 years, they used computers more and more each year at work and then at home. They are now retiring in large numbers, to a life with some extra leisure time and buying power. Reading the AARP Bulletin shows a study citing larger and larger numbers of these retirees are entering the online gaming world. Do you think they will be looking for challenge, for difficulty, for complication, for requirements that force them into specific content? I suspect that is very unlikely. They will be looking for fun. Plain and simple fun.
These are not people disadvantaged by “no child left behind”. They received at least good to excellent educations from high schools, equivalent to a college education of today, and often more. They know how to find a goal of value and achieve that goal regardless of the level of difficulty included. But they did that for most of their real lives. Now they just want to play a game and have fun at it. Personally I believe GW2’s cooperative PvE could draw in a whole lot of those future players and their significant ability to spend money, to the game.
The single biggest thing that will surely prevent this from happening is the movement over the last year or so to require game play in the other two game modes, PvP and WvW, in order to achieve most of the game’s worthwhile rewards. These people have fought their whole lives to achieve what they have and now they just want to have fun. Does anyone really think that class of player will thrive in that trash talking player versus player combat? I just can’t see it happening.
Anyway, I just thought a large influx of wealthy players might help, but the game seems to be moving away from that possibility. Ok, gotta go apply for medicare…
Yah as an older player myself, I agree with all of what you have said, and Anet is really shooting themselves in the foot with their move to make more Challenging PvE content with HoT and Raids.
Equally so, I loved WvW. It was a blast, and as far as sPvP goes it’s just a matter of finding a nice daily arena to hang your hat to get the dailies done.
Personally, I think it’s more the attitude of the game mode, the people that advocated raids happened to be the most vile people I have ever dealt with, far, far, worse then PvP players. Just my sampling tho.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
(edited by STIHL.2489)
Well I am sure there will be some cheering, but, I’m not waiting. Found a few more MMO’s out there that are quite fun. Can’t say I’m gone for good tho, because, when the next expansion comes out, I’ll check it out, see if it’s worth coming back for, so I’ll poke in from time to time. Anyway, to all the people that love raids and the new direction of Anet end game, I hope that you all play and stay here for many, many, years to come, in fact, I hope you love it so much, that you never leave.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I think Anet took a nose dive in population with the new direction of it’s ‘end game’ as far as the expansion goes.
But people don’t mean a thing, it’s all about making money, and the game will live and grow as long as it’s profitable, regardless of how many people play it.
So it’s not really dying till it’s losing money.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I’d rather a raid that is scaled for single player.
I could get behind this, like some quasi-living story add-on, just a single player walk though.
Kind of like infantile mode for SAB?
I have heard that Arah used to be a 5 Person Dungeon, but because it was the last part of the Personal Story they made it a Solo Dungeon, so, I would imagine something like that being done, but as opposed to removing the 10 Man Raid, like they did with Arah, they could just put in some side entrance, to this other “Story Mode” kind of deal, just so people could get.. whatever it is they think they want.
They also made it a solo instance because it was boring, broken and a buggy mess, nobody in their right mind wanted to run that more then once.
Either way, same idea.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I’d rather a raid that is scaled for single player.
I could get behind this, like some quasi-living story add-on, just a single player walk though.
Kind of like infantile mode for SAB?
I have heard that Arah used to be a 5 Person Dungeon, but because it was the last part of the Personal Story they made it a Solo Dungeon, so, I would imagine something like that being done, but as opposed to removing the 10 Man Raid, like they did with Arah, they could just put in some side entrance, to this other “Story Mode” kind of deal, just so people could get.. whatever it is they think they want.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I’d rather a raid that is scaled for single player.
I could get behind this, like some quasi-living story add-on, just a single player walk though.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
Could still work with skimpy male armor.
Conan wore a fur Speedo after all.
Yah.. I’m not saying they gotta cover the females, I’m saying they should show some beefcake.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
This is not a sport – you’re right – but there are plenty of playing customers right now.
People leave – it’s inevitable.
Also I have no idea how much you spent on the game but I’m pretty sure you’re not that big of a part of Anet’s income.
I’m just going to talk about this for a small moment.
For the record, I used to spend around 40 a month, 10 a week. Just a small budget of money spent on a game, Nothing much really.
And I have to agree, One person is a drop in the bucket, but it’s never 1 person, it’s all about demographics.
So, just to play for a moment.
Taking a demographic that is hinged on two points, Spending around 40 a month, and Leaving due to the whole Hardcore/Elitism direction Anet is taking with Raids and HoT Content, and opted to follow your advice and Move On
Lets say that demographic of Players made up 1% of the players. A very small group of people no doubt. Well, I believe it was mentioned that GW2 has around 100K unique daily log ins, so 1% of that would be $520K loss a year, or put another way, That means the entire Raid Team’s annual salary, just walked out the door.
I don’t even want to think of how much they just lost if that demographic represents something like 10% of the Paying Clients.
But remember, you do play a role if the game does start to die, because you were the one that wanted to exclude people, and told them to get out if they didn’t like it.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
(edited by STIHL.2489)
But Let me clue you in, in the last 16 years, the arguments you’re using have not changed, and they are all bull kitten, because you’re trying to tell someone else to have fun on your terms, and it never works like that. Never.
I’m not telling anyone to do anything.
I’m telling this – I want to play with certain people that make the experience fun for me – I don’t care what others do as long as they don’t interfere. I don’t even care if you have fun or not. Or what you do.
I’m not telling anyone how to have fun or on what terms. I’m trying to have fun on MY terms. Is that a problem for you? Don’t play with me. Is it that hard?There’s no point in telling us your “extended MMO history” – I pretty much assumed it from your posts.
Long-time genre veteran that was once good or “top dog” at the games he played but now has fallen behind in this game because of reasons. And is upset about it – wants to get back into it but people won’t have him because he wasn’t there from the get-go.
I wish I could say I feel for you – but if you truly are as experienced in MMOs as you think you are you should have known that not being there on raids day one would be a bad idea.Actually, you could not be further from the truth if you tried, I’m older now, and I have the starting stages of arthritis (as well as other problems) with my hands, which means it hurts to try and play twitch based games, I can still pull off that epic encounter once in a while, but it causes me physical pain to do so and I need to rest my hands after and often can’t really play for a few days after the fact.
That is why I realize how stupid I was to say what you’re saying, all those years ago, I never took the time to realize that there were other players out there, people with hurdles that I had no idea what they are were dealing with. Some people for love of the game, suffer pain, they deal with disabilities, they struggle against their own bodies just to try and have some fun, playing an MMO. What a total scum bag I was to tell them to learn to play, and laugh when they felt that they should be allowed to enjoy the game equally to me, I put in the time and effort to be good, how dare they. Only took me 12 years to develop some minor physical problems to get that wake up call, and realize how foolish and greedy I had been over something so worthlessly insignificant.
I suppose I should have known better, I was you at one time, and I think back now over the years, of what others said to me, as I now say to you, and the cycle will be, what it will be.
You lose nothing if the game is made to be inclusive, yet others loose so much if the game is built to be exclusive, but some of us, in our childish desire to placate out our own greed and vanity, in of all things, a game, just can’t see that any game is a better game, when people feel included.
Go enjoy your raid.
Yeah. I found your problem.
You have a physical problem that is preventing you from being able to play Guild Wars 2 at the optimal level required for raids. There it is.
It’s not your fault – nor does fault matter. What matters is that people will want you to perform up to par regardless of your real life issues.I’ve had my share of physical issues – that’s really no big deal or an excuse. It’s prevented me from doing demanding sports like soccer and such when I was younger. And I didn’t blame others for not wanting to play with me because I knew I was a very poor player and a detriment to any team.
You know what I did? I accepted the situation – made peace with it and quit playing soccer.What I didn’t do is call people “elitist entitled jerks” simply because they wanted to play without a team-wide handicap.
What I’m saying is not stupid. It’s the cold hard truth. Sometimes no matter what you want or how you feel you just can’t make the cut – sometimes it’s because of how you’re born – other times it’s a random act of chance that prevents you. This is called tough luck – we all face it one way or another.
Some people have arthritis and can’t raid. That doesn’t mean they’re entitled to have others carry them or accept them if they can’t perform.
Just because life deals you a bad hand doesn’t mean everyone else has to bend over backwards to make your time in a game ( or any other passtime) more enjoyable.
If you can – do it – if you can’t – find something else.This is what I did – and I did it because being a bother to others is not what I want to do.
So don’t lecture me about physical issues and what difficulties arise from them – I am too well aware. It is not an excuse to feel entitled to other player’s time and effort.
I suppose I should have known better, I was you at one time, and I think back now over the years, of what others said to me, as I now say to you, and the cycle will be, what it will be.
You weren’t me. And you aren’t me now.
You and I think very differently. The cycle has already been for me – I know the other side of it too. It’s still not an excuse.
LOL Said the same things myself, even used the sports analogy, god those are so overdone. Hilarious.
I’m not asking you to carry me, in fact I don’t even want to play with you at all. You’re not the kind of person I would want to even share a game with anymore, much less an encounter where I have to deal with you directly.
But I see I have wanted my time, but none the less, I’ve already followed your advice and started to look for new ‘sport’ to play.
But see this is not a sport, it’s a product that needs paying clients to survive, hope you pick up the slack.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
But Let me clue you in, in the last 16 years, the arguments you’re using have not changed, and they are all bull kitten, because you’re trying to tell someone else to have fun on your terms, and it never works like that. Never.
I’m not telling anyone to do anything.
I’m telling this – I want to play with certain people that make the experience fun for me – I don’t care what others do as long as they don’t interfere. I don’t even care if you have fun or not. Or what you do.
I’m not telling anyone how to have fun or on what terms. I’m trying to have fun on MY terms. Is that a problem for you? Don’t play with me. Is it that hard?There’s no point in telling us your “extended MMO history” – I pretty much assumed it from your posts.
Long-time genre veteran that was once good or “top dog” at the games he played but now has fallen behind in this game because of reasons. And is upset about it – wants to get back into it but people won’t have him because he wasn’t there from the get-go.
I wish I could say I feel for you – but if you truly are as experienced in MMOs as you think you are you should have known that not being there on raids day one would be a bad idea.
Actually, you could not be further from the truth if you tried, I’m older now, and I have the starting stages of arthritis (as well as other problems) with my hands, which means it hurts to try and play twitch based games, I can still pull off that epic encounter once in a while, but it causes me physical pain to do so and I need to rest my hands after and often can’t really play for a few days after the fact.
That is why I realize how stupid I was to say what you’re saying, all those years ago, I never took the time to realize that there were other players out there, people with hurdles that I had no idea what they are were dealing with. Some people for love of the game, suffer pain, they deal with disabilities, they struggle against their own bodies just to try and have some fun, playing an MMO. What a total scum bag I was to tell them to learn to play, and laugh when they felt that they should be allowed to enjoy the game equally to me, I put in the time and effort to be good, how dare they. Only took me 12 years to develop some minor physical problems to get that wake up call, and realize how foolish and greedy I had been over something so worthlessly insignificant.
I suppose I should have known better, I was you at one time, and I think back now over the years, of what others said to me, as I now say to you, and the cycle will be, what it will be.
You lose nothing if the game is made to be inclusive, yet others loose so much if the game is built to be exclusive, but some of us, in our childish desire to placate out our own greed and vanity, in of all things, a game, just can’t see that any game is a better game, when people feel included.
Go enjoy your raid.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
There is always a problem when you bring real world stuff into a game, mainly, because games are were people go to escape the real world and all it’s problems.
As for anything else about this tragedy, it’s an act of hate, which is purely a human problem, it’s not a problem with a mechanical device, but a problem with a human, who hated another human, for reasons that make no sense and never will.
If we could fix our human problem, if we could resolve the issues of irrational hate, we would not be worrying about some mechanical device, and instead maybe share our passion and love of cheese.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I’m sure you knew that so it’s a bit confusing why you mentioned it here.
It was to point out how worthless your efforts are in the scheme of things, how inane it is try and brag about game accomplishments to make yourself sound superior or better then someone else, no one cares if you raided in this game, or the last 20 that came out.
No one cares about what you have done, and they are not going to be impressed, that was my point. Why people continue to think this matters is beyond me, did you really think anyone cares what you have done? No one does, no one here cares what you have done on either side of the discussion the only thing they care about is their own loot and pride, if you raid, you’re just a tool that other people use to progress towards their own loot, thanks for showing up and not sucking so that I can get my loot.. whoever the kitten you are.
I played MMO’s since MMO’s existed, the last 17 years of them, and Been doing Text Based Online MUD’s since the AOL Days in 92. But do you care, does that suddenly mean something? Nope, not to you, so why do you think anything you have done, means something to me or anyone else?
I have seen first hand dozens of MMO’s rise and fall, I have I read everything all of you had said a hundred times over, sure, I’ve even said such stupidity myself when I started out playing MMO’s, realizing now, looking back how truly foolish I was to believe such nonsense.
I’ve said all I think I can say in this topic, but I’ll close with this, and you don’t need to believe what I am about to say, and frankly I don’t care if you do, But Let me clue you in, in the last 16 years, the arguments you’re using have not changed, and they are all bull kitten, because you’re trying to tell someone else to have fun on your terms, and it never works like that. Never.
It’s the same for your arguments. They are used over and over and there is still no proof that multiple difficulties are good for MMORPGs.
This is not my Argument
The only thing that can keep players is content diversity. Forcing all players into the same content will always fail, not all players enjoy the same things.
This was my point. Good that we agree.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
Biggest Fear? Wow’s that a tough one.
I mean, I know what I would like to see them provide, but it’s hard to say what I fear, as, who knows what they may have brewing, or what they will plan next.
Now I don’t know what my biggest fear is, but I will say my biggest hope is that they return to their roots and revisit this philosophy.
If we chose fun as our main metric for tracking success, can we flip the core paradigm and make design decisions based on what we’d like to play as game players? Can we focus our time on making meaningful and impactful content, rather than filler content to draw out the experience? Can we make something so much fun you might want to play it multiple times because it’s fun, rather than making you do it because the game says you have to? It’s how we played games while growing up. I can’t tell you how many times I played Quest for Glory; the game didn’t give me 25 daily quests I needed to log in and do, I played it multiple times because it was fun!
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I’m sure you knew that so it’s a bit confusing why you mentioned it here.
It was to point out how worthless your efforts are in the scheme of things, how inane it is try and brag about game accomplishments to make yourself sound superior or better then someone else, no one cares if you raided in this game, or the last 20 that came out.
No one cares about what you have done, and they are not going to be impressed, that was my point. Why people continue to think this matters is beyond me, did you really think anyone cares what you have done? No one does, no one here cares what you have done on either side of the discussion the only thing they care about is their own loot and pride, if you raid, you’re just a tool that other people use to progress towards their own loot, thanks for showing up and not sucking so that I can get my loot.. whoever the kitten you are.
I played MMO’s since MMO’s existed, the last 17 years of them, and Been doing Text Based Online MUD’s since the AOL Days in 92. But do you care, does that suddenly mean something? Nope, not to you, so why do you think anything you have done, means something to me or anyone else?
I have seen first hand dozens of MMO’s rise and fall, I have I read everything all of you had said a hundred times over, sure, I’ve even said such stupidity myself when I started out playing MMO’s, realizing now, looking back how truly foolish I was to believe such nonsense.
I’ve said all I think I can say in this topic, but I’ll close with this, and you don’t need to believe what I am about to say, and frankly I don’t care if you do, But Let me clue you in, in the last 16 years, the arguments you’re using have not changed, and they are all bull kitten, because you’re trying to tell someone else to have fun on your terms, and it never works like that. Never.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
egotistical elitist entitled jerks
Could you please make a list of things they are entitled to? It would be very useful.
Complete Access to the game I paid for. In case you missed this, I paid for this game, and the Expansion that went with it. Any Skill, Any Time Investment is nothing, compared to cold cash that keeps their lights on.
If Anet does not want to make content for it’s Paying players like me, or wants to cater some other group, then they can expect me to stop paying into this game, Hope you all pick up the slack.
But, yah, I am entitled to Full Access to the Gear, Content, and Aspects, in a way that I enjoy, and if that means I don’t want to deal with elitist jerks, then so be it.
if you thought your investment into this game meant anything, you’re wrong, your skill is pointless, your time spent is worthless, the only thing that matters is dead presidents, which is something I had been providing.
If they want me to keep providing, they better start to build stuff that makes me feel like a special kittening snowflake.
Because, remember this well, I don’t owe them, or you a kitten thing, I don’t care how much you love raids, if what they make is not making me happy, I am not going to support your game mode with my money. Keep that in mind the next time you’re swiping the credit card, make sure to buy a whole lot more to cover what I’m no longer buying.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
(edited by STIHL.2489)
- AB multilooting is consistently 40-50g for approximately 1 hour of playtime assuming you are the commander (generally 50mins-1hr if not).
No way. Outside Flipping on the TP, there is simply no way to make this kind of gold in an hour.
In fact, I don’t know nor have I heard of any method that can continually reward 14g/h of play.
Please provide detailed info, or links.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
(edited by STIHL.2489)
People hate raids because they are incapable of forming up groups and working towards success.
They want to get in with already existing “good” groups that have put in the time and effort and have an easy time.
Except the people that have worked hard don’t want new/inexperienced players in their groups – and for good reason.
Somehow – not wanting to take people that haven’t worked hard to earn their place is being toxic.You bought this game? sure. Are you entitled to be able to play anything inside definitely.
Does that mean 9 other people are obligated to have you with them and play with you if they don’t want to? No.Because everyone bought this game – and everyone has a right to play it the way they see fit. Even if it means playing it without you.
You want to not get hassled? Find 9 other people that want you or try to solo the content.
Thank you for clearly showing the problem here, see, anyone that wants to raid, has to deal with 9 other entitled jerks to do the content. See the problem now?
Your claims are beyond absurd.
Just because I want to play the game a certain way makes me an entitled jerk?
Let me clue you in friend – I was there on raid release. I put in countless hours into VG, then Gorse, then Sab and so on. I learned, I improved, I got better. We all did.
I was raiding 15 years ago in EQ when death could cost you levels, and people could loot/kill steal. Blah, Blah, Blah, I all that and a whole bag of chips, look at how great I am, or some such.
Let me clue you in friend no one cares.
I have a right to choose who I play with -and I choose to play with people that worked hard just like me – not ones that joined late and expect to be carried.
I should also have the right to choose who I play with, and a part of that, should not be being forced to deal with egotistical elitist entitled jerks that think they are better then other people.
But sadly, Raids cater to that very exact demographic. Starting to see the problem yet?
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
People hate raids because they are incapable of forming up groups and working towards success.
They want to get in with already existing “good” groups that have put in the time and effort and have an easy time.
Except the people that have worked hard don’t want new/inexperienced players in their groups – and for good reason.
Somehow – not wanting to take people that haven’t worked hard to earn their place is being toxic.You bought this game? sure. Are you entitled to be able to play anything inside definitely.
Does that mean 9 other people are obligated to have you with them and play with you if they don’t want to? No.Because everyone bought this game – and everyone has a right to play it the way they see fit. Even if it means playing it without you.
You want to not get hassled? Find 9 other people that want you or try to solo the content.
Thank you for clearly showing the problem here, see, anyone that wants to raid, has to deal with 9 other entitled jerks to do the content. See the problem now?
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
Can I have my Legendary backpiece then without having to bother doing Fractals/PVP?
The Difference between me, and every Stuck up Elitist on the Forum, is I believe you should, and I sincerely hope that Anet has plans in the future to make Legendary Back Items for all the other game modes.
Why other people can’t believe the same, seems that they miss this is a game. But by all means, shove that stick all the way up, and pretend that it’s pride.
Seems like you’re ignoring all the counter-points in this discussion:
- Legendary armor has the same stats as ascended, which is achievable in all game modes
- All the new legendaries are tied to particular game modes. The old legendaries were mostly pve, but you could buy them off the tp.
- Not all skins and legendary items have parity across all game modes
- If all you want is the legendary armor, it makes more sense to put an alternate method in another game mode. Doesn’t sound like you like raids to begin with.
- Most raiders are ok with legendary armor in different game modes.
- Having legendary armor in easy mode devalues the prestige of the skin. For all the new legendaries, you knew the player had to be good or dedicated enough to acquire itAd hominem does no favors for your argument.
Since You have not been reading my post, how is it that you think I have not addressed the issue of Legendary Armor?
Oh wait.. Yes I did..
Here is it for you to read.
How are legendary weapons and legendary backpieces any different? You have to do open world completion, you have to do a certain dungeon, you have to do PvP, you have to do high level fractals.
You can’t get legendary weapons nor a legendary backpiece with raiding. Why is armor suddenly different?
You’re thinking too much about the Legendary Armor. While that will be an issue, no doubt, that will only affect the people what enjoy Legendary Journeys, and don’t enjoy the Raid. Yes, that group will become alienated, and is it’s own subset, and there is a good chance that they also will be driven from the game. An Unfortunate loss, perhaps, but they are not the group I am talking about.
My main issue it’s the ability to Buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with Raid Tokens, (AKA: Magnetite Shard), thus bypassing all RNG and Crafting Grind.
That is what makes Raids the ‘End Game’ content, because you can’t buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with any other currency.
Now if they put in a vendor where players could buy Ascended Armor/Weapons from Fractals (Which would make sense) and change it so that The Glorious and Triumphant Armor from the WvW/sPvP Reward Tracks was Ascended as opposed to Exotic, that would equalize the game quite a bit.
But right now, Raids give players the ability to simply buy Ascended Armor/Weapon, for less gold then it costs to make an Insignia.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
Can I have my Legendary backpiece then without having to bother doing Fractals/PVP?
The Difference between me, and every Stuck up Elitist on the Forum, is I believe you should, and I sincerely hope that Anet has plans in the future to make Legendary Back Items for all the other game modes.
Why other people can’t believe the same, seems that they miss this is a game. But by all means, shove that stick all the way up, and pretend that it’s pride.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
Why sould HARDER content give you the same reward as easier content?
By this logic the best rewards should be exclusive to PvP, is that what you want?
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I really don’t understand all this talk of minorities.
Being capable of raiding isn’t some minority you’re born into like race/ethnicity, it’s simply researching and participating in something. The only ones stopping you from becoming part of this “minority” are yourselves.Demographics in gaming communities — at least the ones being talked about in discussions like this one — are based around preferences. For instance, I’m in a demographic that prefers not to raid but doesn’t worry about exclusive rewards being in that content. Yes, that group exists. It might well be the real “majority” regarding this issue. My reason to not raid is that I promised myself back during WoW I would not get sucked into the raiding time sink again. While it looks like the time commitment for GW2 raids is lower, it’s still higher than I care to commit to.
How far do we stretch this logic?
I’m no good at PvP, you have to let me get the PvP legendary backpiece by participating in hot-join.
I’m no good at high level fractals, you have to let me get the legendary backpiece by participating in fractals 1-10.Back when the game launched, there was some thought that most rewards would be obtained via Karma as a sort of universal currency. Even then, though, making L. weapons required doing at least one dungeon and real WvW (pre EotM or achievement chests with Badges). Also, dungeon skins were only available for use in PvE by doing that dungeon. So, there were unique rewards tied to specific content even then.
A funny thing’s happened since. ANet learned that: (a) a lot of players would not repeat content without reward; and (b) that players would seek the path of least resistance to obtain the universal currency, ignoring any other content. This led to the idea that players could be enticed to do specific content by including rewards they can’t get elsewhere — whether this is a matter of degree (rares via world bosses) or exclusivity (Glorious Armor). Karma was incorporated as a component into a few collection rewards, but was otherwise largely abandoned.
Now, virtually every new thing the devs throw out for players to do has an exclusive reward attached to it. What we’re seeing in threads like this one is the reaction from players who still have attachments to the idea behind that universal currency and what it meant to them — even though ANet pretty much abandoned universal access regardless of preference long ago.
Not really, all the “exclusive” stuff was purely cosmetic skins, right up to LS2, with Luminescent being rare for pity’s sake, but exclusive cosmetics, have been in the game since day one.
The real problem here, is that shoehorned the entire game into Raids being the “end game”, as they give the best access to the higher rewards then any other game mode.
Prior to that, players could pick what they wanted their end game to be and still get around same overall loot value, now, Anet set it as ‘raids’ as their game. And while it’s their game, they can do whatever they want, for the people that don’t want to bother with doing raids, to be stuck forever playing the ‘Bert Bell Benefit Bowl’ if you will.
It’s pretty clear that’s going over as well as a fart in a church.
Now, what is done can’t really be undone, so now they are faced with the issue of making other content that offers an equal abundance of ‘end game’ rewards as well as a feeling of pride, that players can do in alternative to raids.
LS3, will not fit the bill.
How are legendary weapons and legendary backpieces any different? You have to do open world completion, you have to do a certain dungeon, you have to do PvP, you have to do high level fractals.
You can’t get legendary weapons nor a legendary backpiece with raiding. Why is armor suddenly different?
You’re thinking too much about the Legendary Armor. While that will be an issue, no doubt, that will only affect the people what enjoy Legendary Journeys, and don’t enjoy the Raid. Yes, that group will become alienated, and is it’s own subset, and there is a good chance that they also will be driven from the game. An Unfortunate loss, perhaps, they are not the group I am talking about.
My main issue it’s the ability to Buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with Raid Tokens, (AKA: Magnetite Shard), thus bypassing all RNG and Crafting Grind.
That is what makes Raids the ‘End Game’ content, because you can’t buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with any other currency.
Now if they put in a vendor where players could buy Ascended Armor/Weapons from Fractals (Which would make sense) and change it so that The Glorious and Triumphant Armor from the WvW/sPvP Reward Tracks was Ascended as opposed to Exotic, that would equalize the game quite a bit.
But right now, Raids give players the ability to simply buy Ascended Armor/Weapon, for less gold then it costs to make an Insignia.
So basically you don’t want people that do content you don’t like to be rewarded with ascended armor?
No, I want to be rewarded as well for doing other content that I do enjoy, I don’t see why that is so hard to understand.
It’s so hard to understand because you aren’t making coherent criticisms. Your argument that you can just buy Ascended with a currency completely ignores the slow rate at wich you earn said currency (100 per week unless your lucky) and the relative worth of said currency for purchasing other raid rewards.
To put it simply raiding is not an efficient way of getting ascended gear. It takes at least 2 weeks for something cheap like boots or up to 5 weeks for a two handed weapon.
My Criticism is coherent, and sound, it’s just a matter of you not liking, hence why you think I hit the nail and missed the wood. No, I made a very viable point.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
If i remember clearly, the gw2 community cried to Anet for harder content
You’re memory is wrong then, I never cried for harder content, I didn’t want it, and I still don’t. Maybe you and your ilk cried, but me and mine didn’t.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I really don’t understand all this talk of minorities.
Being capable of raiding isn’t some minority you’re born into like race/ethnicity, it’s simply researching and participating in something. The only ones stopping you from becoming part of this “minority” are yourselves.Demographics in gaming communities — at least the ones being talked about in discussions like this one — are based around preferences. For instance, I’m in a demographic that prefers not to raid but doesn’t worry about exclusive rewards being in that content. Yes, that group exists. It might well be the real “majority” regarding this issue. My reason to not raid is that I promised myself back during WoW I would not get sucked into the raiding time sink again. While it looks like the time commitment for GW2 raids is lower, it’s still higher than I care to commit to.
How far do we stretch this logic?
I’m no good at PvP, you have to let me get the PvP legendary backpiece by participating in hot-join.
I’m no good at high level fractals, you have to let me get the legendary backpiece by participating in fractals 1-10.Back when the game launched, there was some thought that most rewards would be obtained via Karma as a sort of universal currency. Even then, though, making L. weapons required doing at least one dungeon and real WvW (pre EotM or achievement chests with Badges). Also, dungeon skins were only available for use in PvE by doing that dungeon. So, there were unique rewards tied to specific content even then.
A funny thing’s happened since. ANet learned that: (a) a lot of players would not repeat content without reward; and (b) that players would seek the path of least resistance to obtain the universal currency, ignoring any other content. This led to the idea that players could be enticed to do specific content by including rewards they can’t get elsewhere — whether this is a matter of degree (rares via world bosses) or exclusivity (Glorious Armor). Karma was incorporated as a component into a few collection rewards, but was otherwise largely abandoned.
Now, virtually every new thing the devs throw out for players to do has an exclusive reward attached to it. What we’re seeing in threads like this one is the reaction from players who still have attachments to the idea behind that universal currency and what it meant to them — even though ANet pretty much abandoned universal access regardless of preference long ago.
Not really, all the “exclusive” stuff was purely cosmetic skins, right up to LS2, with Luminescent being rare for pity’s sake, but exclusive cosmetics, have been in the game since day one.
The real problem here, is that shoehorned the entire game into Raids being the “end game”, as they give the best access to the higher rewards then any other game mode.
Prior to that, players could pick what they wanted their end game to be and still get around same overall loot value, now, Anet set it as ‘raids’ as their game. And while it’s their game, they can do whatever they want, for the people that don’t want to bother with doing raids, to be stuck forever playing the ‘Bert Bell Benefit Bowl’ if you will.
It’s pretty clear that’s going over as well as a fart in a church.
Now, what is done can’t really be undone, so now they are faced with the issue of making other content that offers an equal abundance of ‘end game’ rewards as well as a feeling of pride, that players can do in alternative to raids.
LS3, will not fit the bill.
How are legendary weapons and legendary backpieces any different? You have to do open world completion, you have to do a certain dungeon, you have to do PvP, you have to do high level fractals.
You can’t get legendary weapons nor a legendary backpiece with raiding. Why is armor suddenly different?
You’re thinking too much about the Legendary Armor. While that will be an issue, no doubt, that will only affect the people what enjoy Legendary Journeys, and don’t enjoy the Raid. Yes, that group will become alienated, and is it’s own subset, and there is a good chance that they also will be driven from the game. An Unfortunate loss, perhaps, they are not the group I am talking about.
My main issue it’s the ability to Buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with Raid Tokens, (AKA: Magnetite Shard), thus bypassing all RNG and Crafting Grind.
That is what makes Raids the ‘End Game’ content, because you can’t buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with any other currency.
Now if they put in a vendor where players could buy Ascended Armor/Weapons from Fractals (Which would make sense) and change it so that The Glorious and Triumphant Armor from the WvW/sPvP Reward Tracks was Ascended as opposed to Exotic, that would equalize the game quite a bit.
But right now, Raids give players the ability to simply buy Ascended Armor/Weapon, for less gold then it costs to make an Insignia.
So basically you don’t want people that do content you don’t like to be rewarded with ascended armor?
No, I want to be rewarded as well for doing other content that I do enjoy, I don’t see why that is so hard to understand.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
“Filthy Casual” for anyone that has played for more then a 1K hours and not got a legendary item.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
(edited by STIHL.2489)
I really don’t understand all this talk of minorities.
Being capable of raiding isn’t some minority you’re born into like race/ethnicity, it’s simply researching and participating in something. The only ones stopping you from becoming part of this “minority” are yourselves.Demographics in gaming communities — at least the ones being talked about in discussions like this one — are based around preferences. For instance, I’m in a demographic that prefers not to raid but doesn’t worry about exclusive rewards being in that content. Yes, that group exists. It might well be the real “majority” regarding this issue. My reason to not raid is that I promised myself back during WoW I would not get sucked into the raiding time sink again. While it looks like the time commitment for GW2 raids is lower, it’s still higher than I care to commit to.
How far do we stretch this logic?
I’m no good at PvP, you have to let me get the PvP legendary backpiece by participating in hot-join.
I’m no good at high level fractals, you have to let me get the legendary backpiece by participating in fractals 1-10.Back when the game launched, there was some thought that most rewards would be obtained via Karma as a sort of universal currency. Even then, though, making L. weapons required doing at least one dungeon and real WvW (pre EotM or achievement chests with Badges). Also, dungeon skins were only available for use in PvE by doing that dungeon. So, there were unique rewards tied to specific content even then.
A funny thing’s happened since. ANet learned that: (a) a lot of players would not repeat content without reward; and (b) that players would seek the path of least resistance to obtain the universal currency, ignoring any other content. This led to the idea that players could be enticed to do specific content by including rewards they can’t get elsewhere — whether this is a matter of degree (rares via world bosses) or exclusivity (Glorious Armor). Karma was incorporated as a component into a few collection rewards, but was otherwise largely abandoned.
Now, virtually every new thing the devs throw out for players to do has an exclusive reward attached to it. What we’re seeing in threads like this one is the reaction from players who still have attachments to the idea behind that universal currency and what it meant to them — even though ANet pretty much abandoned universal access regardless of preference long ago.
Not really, all the “exclusive” stuff was purely cosmetic skins, right up to LS2, with Luminescent being rare for pity’s sake, but exclusive cosmetics, have been in the game since day one.
The real problem here, is that shoehorned the entire game into Raids being the “end game”, as they give the best access to the higher rewards then any other game mode.
Prior to that, players could pick what they wanted their end game to be and still get around same overall loot value, now, Anet set it as ‘raids’ as their game. And while it’s their game, they can do whatever they want, for the people that don’t want to bother with doing raids, to be stuck forever playing the ‘Bert Bell Benefit Bowl’ if you will.
It’s pretty clear that’s going over as well as a fart in a church.
Now, what is done can’t really be undone, so now they are faced with the issue of making other content that offers an equal abundance of ‘end game’ rewards as well as a feeling of pride, that players can do in alternative to raids.
LS3, will not fit the bill.
How are legendary weapons and legendary backpieces any different? You have to do open world completion, you have to do a certain dungeon, you have to do PvP, you have to do high level fractals.
You can’t get legendary weapons nor a legendary backpiece with raiding. Why is armor suddenly different?
You’re thinking too much about the Legendary Armor. While that will be an issue, no doubt, that will only affect the people what enjoy Legendary Journeys, and don’t enjoy the Raid. Yes, that group will become alienated, and is it’s own subset, and there is a good chance that they also will be driven from the game. An Unfortunate loss, perhaps, they are not the group I am talking about.
My main issue it’s the ability to Buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with Raid Tokens, (AKA: Magnetite Shard), thus bypassing all RNG and Crafting Grind.
That is what makes Raids the ‘End Game’ content, because you can’t buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with any other currency.
Now if they put in a vendor where players could buy Ascended Armor/Weapons from Fractals (Which would make sense) and change it so that The Glorious and Triumphant Armor from the WvW/sPvP Reward Tracks was Ascended as opposed to Exotic, that would equalize the game quite a bit.
But right now, Raids give players the ability to simply buy Ascended Armor/Weapon, for less gold then it costs to make an Insignia.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
So I am wondering, what direct ROI do raids have
At the very least, raiding advertised and sold the game to that audience, as well as kept them active. I doubt these players spend extra money however as gold is trivial to obtain in GW2. In other MMOs however, I’ve seen hardcore raid guilds spend hundreds of dollars to be first. For example, if ascended was just released along with raids, they would have bought gold to immediately craft it all. Next expansion will reveal if raids were worth it, as either this will be the last, or just the beginning.
Personally, I was with a raiding guild from other MMOs back at launch and everyone simply rushed to the nonexistent endgame. Without the typical progression/raid grind, they basically didn’t know what to do, so they quit within the first month. A lot of them did come back for HoT, only because everything else was dead at the time, but in the end, cosmetic raiding was of no interest to them.
This is a good answer, it boosted the HoT sales, and now Anet is just making good on their promise. Pity the HoT sales were, not up to expectation.
But I have to agree with you, the next expansion will reveal if raids were a good investment or not.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I really don’t understand all this talk of minorities.
Being capable of raiding isn’t some minority you’re born into like race/ethnicity, it’s simply researching and participating in something. The only ones stopping you from becoming part of this “minority” are yourselves.Demographics in gaming communities — at least the ones being talked about in discussions like this one — are based around preferences. For instance, I’m in a demographic that prefers not to raid but doesn’t worry about exclusive rewards being in that content. Yes, that group exists. It might well be the real “majority” regarding this issue. My reason to not raid is that I promised myself back during WoW I would not get sucked into the raiding time sink again. While it looks like the time commitment for GW2 raids is lower, it’s still higher than I care to commit to.
How far do we stretch this logic?
I’m no good at PvP, you have to let me get the PvP legendary backpiece by participating in hot-join.
I’m no good at high level fractals, you have to let me get the legendary backpiece by participating in fractals 1-10.Back when the game launched, there was some thought that most rewards would be obtained via Karma as a sort of universal currency. Even then, though, making L. weapons required doing at least one dungeon and real WvW (pre EotM or achievement chests with Badges). Also, dungeon skins were only available for use in PvE by doing that dungeon. So, there were unique rewards tied to specific content even then.
A funny thing’s happened since. ANet learned that: (a) a lot of players would not repeat content without reward; and (b) that players would seek the path of least resistance to obtain the universal currency, ignoring any other content. This led to the idea that players could be enticed to do specific content by including rewards they can’t get elsewhere — whether this is a matter of degree (rares via world bosses) or exclusivity (Glorious Armor). Karma was incorporated as a component into a few collection rewards, but was otherwise largely abandoned.
Now, virtually every new thing the devs throw out for players to do has an exclusive reward attached to it. What we’re seeing in threads like this one is the reaction from players who still have attachments to the idea behind that universal currency and what it meant to them — even though ANet pretty much abandoned universal access regardless of preference long ago.
Not really, all the “exclusive” stuff was purely cosmetic skins, right up to LS2, with Luminescent being rare for pity’s sake, but exclusive cosmetics, have been in the game since day one.
The real problem here, is that shoehorned the entire game into Raids being the “end game”, as they give the best access to the higher rewards then any other game mode.
Prior to that, players could pick what they wanted their end game to be and still get around same overall loot value, now, Anet set it as ‘raids’ as their game. And while it’s their game, they can do whatever they want, for the people that don’t want to bother with doing raids, to be stuck forever playing the ‘Bert Bell Benefit Bowl’ if you will.
It’s pretty clear that’s going over as well as a fart in a church.
Now, what is done can’t really be undone, so now they are faced with the issue of making other content that offers an equal abundance of ‘end game’ rewards as well as a feeling of pride, that players can do in alternative to raids.
LS3, will not fit the bill.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
Yah, set me up with a Charr Bike that looks like some kind of rusty steam punk chopper, or a sleek Asura hover bike kind of design, I’d buy that. Carpets and brooms are simply not appealing to me. If I am going to spend money on a cosmetic mount, I want it to look wicked.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
Overwatch just came out, so a lot of the attention kitten are making vids of that to get upvotes. GW2 is alive, fine, and doing great!
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
If the raid team is like 6 people, (plus some support), the average Dev makes around 50K a year, Raids have been in the works for a little over a year, so, given some lesser paid positions, that would around 300K invested into raids, just from the 6 core dev’s assuming they were only making that much.
I wonder how raids will generate the ROI of that monetary investment.
The same way that all content produced by any of the 220 devs (with your salary guess, coming ikitten1M/year) does, keeping players interested in the game.
Since HoT is B2P and Core is F2P now, that is simply not a sufficient answer. There needs to be something about raids that will generate an ROI from them directly, since they have a designated team just doing that at the expense of contributing to any other content.
So I am wondering, what direct ROI do raids have, I mean, I know I won’t ever see the numbers, but I would love to see if the metrics draw a linkage between the people that love raids to death and an increase in their real money spending on the game since raids got introduced.
If they haven’t, then raids have zero ROI in and of themselves, and they are just being funded by the other content.
Anyway, since you answered, have you been spending more on the game since raids got put in? I know I haven’t, been spending a lot less to tell the truth. As a Filthy Casual, I’m not gonna pay into a game that makes an ‘end game’ not designed for me.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
You are forgetting QA, which can make up a sizable portion of a Game’s staff.
Didn’t they outsource their QA? I seem to have heard such rumours coming from a certain site with glassy openings.
Well I am not gonna say they aren’t outsourcing their QA, but Given that Anet has advertised Job openings for QA within their company, they have to have some In house at least.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
If the raid team is like 6 people, (plus some support), the average Dev makes around 50K a year, Raids have been in the works for a little over a year, so, given some lesser paid positions, that would around 300K invested into raids, just from the 6 core dev’s assuming they were only making that much.
I wonder how raids will generate the ROI of that monetary investment.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I don’t want cash shop items for free.
I just don’t think $15 for 3 bag slots or nearly $10 for a single bank slot is reasonable.
I spent $50 on the cash shop last month. I am a supporter of buying things for real money and help anet fund the game.
For me, it’s about small progression. For example, I set aside small amounts every week, like 10 dollars (not much), that I buy gems with. So every week I get my 800 gems. And I let it simmer until I want something. Now yes, that amounts to 40 a month, or roughly 520 a year, that I invest in this game, but it;s done at intervals of 10 dollars each, and it’s part of my fun money. Yes that means, the money I would put aside to go out drinking with my buds, or whatever frivolous thing I would spend it on, but for the hours that I play per week, 10 dollars is still cheaper then going out to the movies.
Anyway, most of the other people I know that have to play around life, do the same thing, and also set budgets with how much they can spend, often, like me, small amounts, and that is why they can have so much, from the gem store with so little effort, and not feel like they spent so much doing it. Yah. it maybe only 10 a week, or even 10 a pay check, and really, that’s not much to spend at any given time, but, that means every month they could get a new bank tab, or raise their collection limit by 250., or get an endless harvesting tool, and still have a few gems left over for later, and they will even out eventually.
So really, just write up a budget, and you will be amazed at how much you can amass with very little incremental investment.
I will say, side note, that since HoT, I have been less motivated to play, and thus less motivated to spend, so I;m not buy gems nor am I putting them up on the exchange, and while 1 person is just a drop in the bucket, if it’as a trend, then, it could mean a continual hike in the price of gems, if you plan to buy them for gold.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I thought Anet had a staff of around 300?
Last time I saw an estimate anywhere it was closer to 350. Back in March we heard…
“120 devs working on live game, 70 devs on expansion 2, 30 devs on core teams that support both.”
From:
http://dulfy.net/2016/03/05/gw2-reddit-developer-ama-summary/
That adds up to 220. The rest are going to be clerical, CS, forum mods, other support staff, etc.
You are forgetting QA, which can make up a sizable portion of a Game’s staff.
I did not forget them. Perhaps you should look up what “etc.” means.
Wow, if gave them that little a head nod, you may as well have.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
In the AmA Anet told us that Raids are very successful and a bigger % of Players Raid in GW2 then in other MMOs.
While this is true, the Devs also cited in that same AMA, that other MMO’s like WoW, had a 3% participation rate.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I truly do believe that we need more of these threads, due to a fact that there’s always a “kitten” who makes a negative topic, and then everyone else who actually raids, defends “raids” via reply, only making the negative topic, well more shown
So yeah, lets spread positivity here, raids so far are AWESOME, accsessability is GREAT as well, and design is overall cool, MORE RAIDS Pl0X
Sure, kitten everything else! Lets make nothing but raids form here on out! GW2 had a good run, 4 years, and one dismal expansion, it’s the perfect time to get that NGE going full swing and alienate all those filthy casuals! Who needs any kind of lateral end game where players had choices about what they could do, we need to have everyone pigeonholed into Raids, and Role Based Builds, because that is what they will love! They Will LOVE IT!
This is such a grand idea, they should do nothing but continue down that path! Anet Make this happen!
When will you accept that raids don’t slow down the creation of other content? It got confirmed mutilple times by ArenaNet. There will always be content you don’t want to play or can’t play. Accept it.
Why did you quote me? I didn’t say anything even remotely related to what you said.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I truly do believe that we need more of these threads, due to a fact that there’s always a “kitten” who makes a negative topic, and then everyone else who actually raids, defends “raids” via reply, only making the negative topic, well more shown
So yeah, lets spread positivity here, raids so far are AWESOME, accsessability is GREAT as well, and design is overall cool, MORE RAIDS Pl0X
Sure, kitten everything else! Lets make nothing but raids form here on out! GW2 had a good run, 4 years, and one dismal expansion, it’s the perfect time to get that NGE going full swing and alienate all those filthy casuals! Who needs any kind of lateral end game where players had choices about what they could do, we need to have everyone pigeonholed into Raids, and Role Based Builds, because that is what they will love! They Will LOVE IT!
This is such a grand idea, they should do nothing but continue down that path! Anet Make this happen!
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
(edited by STIHL.2489)
I thought Anet had a staff of around 300?
Last time I saw an estimate anywhere it was closer to 350. Back in March we heard…
“120 devs working on live game, 70 devs on expansion 2, 30 devs on core teams that support both.”
From:
http://dulfy.net/2016/03/05/gw2-reddit-developer-ama-summary/
That adds up to 220. The rest are going to be clerical, CS, forum mods, other support staff, etc.
You are forgetting QA, which can make up a sizable portion of a Game’s staff.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
Just the nature of the beast.
As many others have said, the Gem Exchange is a Player Driven Exchange.
As such, Every Gem on the Gem Exchange is has been Paid for with real world cash. When you Buy Gems with Gold, you are not buying gems from Anet, you are buying them from another player.
Personally, I don’t like the way the exchange currently works, too much is hidden. I wish it was a lot more transparent about the exchange, more like how the BL worked, where we could set our asking price in both directions.
I think that would resolve any illusions people had about the way this works.
Technically ALMOST every gem. At the start there was an initial pool that anet created themselves :P
(im being nit picky :p)
Good to know.
I still wish it was a lot more transparent how it worked.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I personally was excited about the link. We had some FC guilds move to DH and I always liked them, so I was really happy. But my enthusiasm has been squelched!
Wow that sucks, I mean, no one should be treated like that. I am truly sorry that happened to you. The thing here is, that was not the whole of DH, that was one commander being a total Jerk. Why some people are like, I will never understand.
I suppose that was why I always ran with my guild or solo roamed, just dealing some of those Pug-manders was simply not appealing.
Again, so sorry that you got treated like that.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
Ok. Here is the problem.
Is a Legendary Weapon/Item, a sign of prestige, or is it a functional advantage?
If it’s a sign of prestige, it does not need any changes, It’s already got a huge larger then life graphic, and feet effects that scream “look at me”
If it’s functional, it needs to be made a heck of a lot less grind, to make it accessible for the population, who will need this stupid item to stay competitive.
Solid points IMO.
If only everything that had any sort of functional advantage was easily accessible to the population. I’m looking at you Permanent Bank Access Contract, Permanent black lion merchant contract, and permanent trading post express contract. However, the above isn’t really my point.
There is no functional advantage to having an instant bank access. You are still as limited as anyone else with what you can put in it, and take from it.
I agree with the OP mainly because there has been so much work put into the game to try to increase build diversity without taking rune/sigil/stat swapping into consideration. They added viper stats, commander stats, changed how conditions work etc. Before it was just berserker. Now for chrono you need some commanders for raids, some assassins for fractals, and a different set for WvW. Thats 3 different sets of ascended armor if you want to be optimal for one class. Then if you want to play ele you have to use scholar runes instead of chrono runes and for Necro you need Viper armor with Thorn runes. Before, it was never like this. Times have changed. If an encounter requires different stats, then people will expect you to have them by switching armor sets. This will happen regardless of weather or not legendary armor or weapons has sigil/rune switching. To me, the ability to swap runes/sigils so I don’t have to carry multiple sets of armor alone would be a nice little perk for spending so much money on skins that are now even starting to look phased out by many of the black lion skins.
Thank you for explaining the Functional Advantage of sigil swapping.
With that put out, Legendary Weapons were never meant to provide a functional advantage, they were meant to be purely for show.
As such, I stand by what I first said:
Either it is a mark of Prestige, in which case it serves it’s purpose just fine as it is. a Lot of work to make, to stop others from doing it, so those with it, can brag they have it.
Or
It Provides a Functional Advantage (or needed Function) and thus should be made reasonably available to the masses.
This.
Especially this when the functional advantage brings with it a huge economic advantage. Otherwise buy some spare sigils and every time you change stats exchange the sigils aswell.
Legendary weapons are ment as prestige only and longterm goals (thus no extra functionallity needed while costing a high price). Stop trying to make them “must-have” or “need to have”.
instead of cluttering up the legendary specific ui piece, how about “separating” sigils from weapons so that you can pick each independently of the other.
then you can make a “legendary sigil” which is extremely expensive and can provide a sink for all the crap sigils but allows switching at will, where normally slotting a nonlegendary sigil could overwrite whats already there.
(make the legendary sigil/rune require a new item crafted from any superior sigils/runes similar to how amalgamated gemstones are crafted from orbs and then used in HoT legendaries)
This is actually a solution which is more in line with benefitting every player instead of the select few. Would need to get counterbalanced economically but at least this way legendarys are not made even more unequal compared to ascended items. Thus not turning legendarys as much into a “need to have” gear tier.
You are wrong. They already offer a significant functional advantage in the form of stat swapping.
And I would bet they regret doing that, I suppose now since they made it so that you can change the stats of Ascended weapons and armor, they really should reset that feature and make it so that they need to be put in the Mystic Forge like all other Ascended Weapons.
It’s the only fair thing to do.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
Just the nature of the beast.
As many others have said, the Gem Exchange is a Player Driven Exchange.
As such, Every Gem on the Gem Exchange is has been Paid for with real world cash. When you Buy Gems with Gold, you are not buying gems from Anet, you are buying them from another player.
Personally, I don’t like the way the exchange currently works, too much is hidden. I wish it was a lot more transparent about the exchange, more like how the BL worked, where we could set our asking price in both directions.
I think that would resolve any illusions people had about the way this works.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
tl;dr ANet’s raid team is more efficient than the people on my content, so ANet must be lying
When they gave the 5 people number they said in addition to the audio, modelers etc. that help them not full time, just like how those developers help all the other groups.
So basically they are taking shared resources from other teams, because raids was Anet priority.
until you can provide real data showing that the amount of resources “taken” from other teams is very disproportional or that the other teams dedicated to a different piece of content are being bottlenecked by art, audio, loot tables, etc (whatever else you listed) as a result of the raid team. you cant legitimately assert anything like this.
Of course he can, if they are asking the Sound Team to make stuff just for the raid, then whatever the sound team was working on needs to be put on hold, for them to work on the raid, so obviously they are pulling resources away from other projects.
Should we complain when the Sound Team gets pulled away from Living Story to work on a few new WvW sounds for a few days? What about the Environmental Design team taken away from new PvE maps to work on revamping SPvP? (We saw reworks already of this)
Well of course not.. PvP is more important then PvE stuff anyway.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I seriously don’t care about Raids…
I’m not interested in Raids… WvW or PvP…
I’m a PvEr and I want more PvE content with better story telling implemented during open world exploration and instances. I want to do it with a small group of 5 friends or solo.Raids require a 10+ organized group and I don’t want to spend the time gathering people together to play the game, I want to spend time PLAYING the game on my own terms.
All I want is:
More Story Missions to progress my character’s storyline.
More Cooler and emotional Cutscenes
More new zones to explore.
More dynamic event chains.
More creative Jumping Puzzles.
More Adventures
More Story Dungeons
More Dungeons
More Fractal
More World Boss Events
Restore the Glorious Combat Effects to it’s original
More Masteries
More Skills
More weapon types
More Traits
More Armor skins
More Ridable objects/pets like the flying Broom or magic carpet.
Making the Flying Broom and Magic carpet glidersGive me more of that….
I agree with this list.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
tl;dr ANet’s raid team is more efficient than the people on my content, so ANet must be lying
When they gave the 5 people number they said in addition to the audio, modelers etc. that help them not full time, just like how those developers help all the other groups.
So basically they are taking shared resources from other teams, because raids was Anet priority.
until you can provide real data showing that the amount of resources “taken” from other teams is very disproportional or that the other teams dedicated to a different piece of content are being bottlenecked by art, audio, loot tables, etc (whatever else you listed) as a result of the raid team. you cant legitimately assert anything like this.
Of course he can, if they are asking the Sound Team to make stuff just for the raid, then whatever the sound team was working on needs to be put on hold, for them to work on the raid, so obviously they are pulling resources away from other projects.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty