Guild Wars 2

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

‘Real casuals’? So, a player is only a ‘real casual’ if they agree with you? Does that mean all other players are hardcore?

For me, personally, I think the hardcore groups would laugh at me, and my lack of builds, Mastery Points, and carefree attitude toward gaming.

IndigoSundown.5419 has linked the definition, see if that describes you, if not, then.. such is.. what it is.

I am loving how people who are not even remotely casual gamers at all, and all talking about what was appealing or doable, it’s like reading a recipe written by people who never cooked.

IndigoSundown.5419:

STIHL.2489:

Don’t you find it odd that there would be other ways to define “casual” I mean, pause and ponder this for a moment. If you say to someone ’’I’m going for a casual stroll" they don’t think there is some time constraint to the walk, nor do they wonder how sure footed you, might be, or your ability to equip yourself for a walk Everyone instantly understand that it’s a leisure activity, something done for the enjoyment of it, never a question of your capacity to walk, or now much time you have to invest into it, but its fully understood that it’s all about your approach to taking the walk.

Just the same as if someone who is going to go on a casual boat ride, or a casual drive., there is no inclination of question their ability drive a car or a boat, the quality of the vehicle or how long or often the activity is undertaken. Its universally understood that what makes it casual is the mindset of the individual taking the cruse.

Which now begs the question, if we always understood that “casual” was a mindset when talking about any other activity, why do we suddenly get so confused when it gets applied to games?

Perhaps because there is a specific definition of the word casual as it is used in video games which states that either skill, time commitment or both are defining factors.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/casual

Words evolve. We either adapt and use them as they are being used in specific contexts or we don’t. Stick with your definition if you like, but you will continue to be misunderstood by some posters and some of the information you get will be unhelpful as a result.

How ironic, don’t you think that the “gamer” definition has no relationship to the actual definition . Wonder why that is?

Griever.8150:

Casuals ruin games.

No, whiners ruin games.. no matter what their playstyle.

JackOfAllGames.2409:

To the OP: If you are dissatisfied with the game, I think you’re approaching this the wrong way. From your original post and what I skimmed through since (I apologize if I missed something), I keep seeing you speak in generalities. Generalities are difficult to turn into anything constructive. I’m assuming that you wish the game to change for the better and aren’t here to troll. Specifics are what you need to improve anything. What are some specific instances of how HoT failed your expectations? What are some contrasting examples of how the original game succeeded?

I do further question what you REALLY want here. Your idea “casual” seems pretty murky to me (again though, generalizations do that). We may simply fundamentally disagree here. It sounds like your definition of casual involves a lack of challenge. Mine involves a lack of time constraints. I don’t mind a challenge so long as there isn’t a clock on it…and so long as there isn’t too great a penalty for failing. I like to explore when I wish, progress at my own pace, and not have to struggle to keep up with a gear progression treadmill. If I fail, I don’t want to work for long in order to try again. This game meets my type of casual VERY well. Yours…again, I’m struggling to understand. That’s why I think specifics would help. …and fewer generalizations may help diffuse the general mood of this topic. (Generalizations leave everyone to their own assumptions and that makes constructive discourse difficult.)

I’d also be curious whether you’ve played HoT lately. Whether your impressions of the expansion still hold true today. Like many have mentioned, the game WAS re-tuned to be less punishing (and more than once, I believe).

I’m not a game designer, so I have no idea what would be “fun”, I am simply a gamer, I simply play something and if I like it, I will keep playing it, and if I don’t, I stop. I don’t sit around and pontificate on what would make a game, as truth be told, I don’t know. Hence my general question, has Anet put in things designed to entertain a casual gamer like myself, if not, meh.. I’ll move on. But I don’t have any special requests, beyond ’entertain me" , it is on Ant to figure out what would do that. That is why they make the games, and I just play them.

To coin a Phrase by Henry Ford.

“if I asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse”

With that said… Ok.. I want a faster horse… where is my car?

Daddicus.6128:

STIHL.2489:

Good to know things were dialed back for HoT, too little, too late for m I’m afraid , but ,I’m downloading the game now, so I’ll check out the PoF expansion

They actually scaled things back about 6 months after HoT released, but you probably missed that (along with other casuals who just gave up in that first 6 months).

More importantly to the game’s future, though, is that the LWS3 maps/events/metas are much closer to core Tyria in terms of difficulty and ability to play solo.

I remember you from when you used to post. I think you would do yourself a favor if you bought the LWS3 package, especially if you’re wavering about PoF. But, if you’re buying PoF for sure, you may not need to buy LWS3. I don’t know how they’re marketing PoF; it’s possible (though unlikely) that it would include LWS3.

I am sure quite a few people gave up and left after HoT for various reasons or another, I mean turnover happens, ,and big changes will have that effect on any game, but it does not seem to have stalled Anet or GW2 production, and things seem to be rolling along quite nicely, so much so, we have a new expansion. Which is why I came back.. and am still slowly downloading it.

As it stands at this point, I have no definite plans involving buying anything in regards to GW2, I pre-ordered the HoT expansions.. and.. well fool me once. yah.. anyway.. I am taking a wait and see approach with this right now.

Thank you very much for the response.

LimeSamurai.9140:

STIHL.2489:

TheGrimm.5624:

First off welcome back and good timing too.

Since different people will see HoT differently based on their expectations your best bet with PoF is to give it a spin during this open beta weekend and use the initial map as directional concept on how they went with the new XPac. Just get your client patched and you should be good to try it out.

Personally I enjoy the differing levels of HoT and it did take time to gain the masteries to access everything, but that meant more exploration and new things to find. ANet has indicated that they want to continue to expand on movement options and joy of travelling. I think this has represented itself in gliders, and some of the other movement methods we saw in LS3. If you didn’t encounter it since you were away we had one new map in LS3 that allowed a line and grapple/pull system (“spidey”) that by itself was a lot of fun, but also worked well in-conjunction with gliding that gave even more freedom in motion.

I would expect less legacy flat maps but bigger more multi-level maps moving forward, but potentially not to the extent that HoT were. LS3 seemed to try and find a balance between the two. New zones will require masteries though to explore all of it, so if that was an issue I think that might still be present in PoF. As I said, spend the time for the client update and try it for yourself. Either way, welcome back and good gaming to you!

, as it’s old content now, which means less active pugs doing it, so I would be required to solo

^ that is so wrong. I just played through all LS3 and the maps were plenty and all the metas being done.

LS3 is no i instance based like all the previous living world stories?

Daddicus.6128:

STIHL.2489:

Which now begs the question, if we always understood that “casual” was a mindset when talking about any other activity, why do we suddenly get so confused when it gets applied to games?

That’s easy to answer: hardcores didn’t like being grossly outnumbered on the forums and even more-so in-game. So, they artificially broke up the definition of casual so they could argue against specific subsets of casual play. Thus, they “won” the arguments more.

Unfortunately, ANet believed them, and almost destroyed the game trying to cater to them.

But, being crushed in the marketplace caused ANet to reconsider, and they’ve moved back much closer to where they were in the beginning. Except for mapping, and for failing to nerf HoT mobs a little bit more, I think they’ve done well. They can’t go too far in the casual direction, because the game does have many hardcore players. They don’t want to alienate them any more than they did casual players with HoT.

Good to know things were dialed back for HoT, too little, too late for m I’m afraid , but ,I’m downloading the game now, so I’ll check out the PoF expansion

Abraxxus.8971:

The devs of City of Heroes did this twice. They sent out emails to all players a couple weeks before hand saying that all characters on accounts that had not logged in in over a certain amount of time (I believe it was something like accounts that were inactive over 2 years) would have their character names up for grabs. This way, if a player wanted to keep their names, they could log in in the weeks before the “names release” happened.

City of Hero’s.. the mmo that was shut down? Hummmm not a good example of something to copy….

If your name is going to be a direct steal from a popular culture book/movie, you won’t get it. Even if they did a clean up, someone else is always gonna jump on the name faster then you. If they put a #2345, and then there would be a #6789, and a #1342, and a slew of other numbers to the point that mistakes would happen, is that really what you want? Everyone in the zone, guild, group with the same ‘name’ ?

TheGrimm.5624:

First off welcome back and good timing too.

Since different people will see HoT differently based on their expectations your best bet with PoF is to give it a spin during this open beta weekend and use the initial map as directional concept on how they went with the new XPac. Just get your client patched and you should be good to try it out.

Personally I enjoy the differing levels of HoT and it did take time to gain the masteries to access everything, but that meant more exploration and new things to find. ANet has indicated that they want to continue to expand on movement options and joy of travelling. I think this has represented itself in gliders, and some of the other movement methods we saw in LS3. If you didn’t encounter it since you were away we had one new map in LS3 that allowed a line and grapple/pull system (“spidey”) that by itself was a lot of fun, but also worked well in-conjunction with gliding that gave even more freedom in motion.

I would expect less legacy flat maps but bigger more multi-level maps moving forward, but potentially not to the extent that HoT were. LS3 seemed to try and find a balance between the two. New zones will require masteries though to explore all of it, so if that was an issue I think that might still be present in PoF. As I said, spend the time for the client update and try it for yourself. Either way, welcome back and good gaming to you!

Thank you , this was very informative, and yes , I was not around for Living World, Season 3, and, I highly doubt that I will be getting involved with it, as it’s old content now, which means less active pugs doing it, so I would be required to solo, and to be honest, I love pugging, one of the special and unique joys of an MMO is the Pug, which of course continually reminds me of a the joke from another game I played.

“If you want a challenge solo the dungeon, if you want a harder challenge, carry a full PUG group though it, BUT, if you want a REAL challenge however.. ask them to help.”

Sarpan.9074:

If you don’t like the game, don’t play it. Simple. I’m sure the company has done its research and knows its customer base. After all, they’re in it to make money and satisfying the most players is the way they’ll do that. If their decisions do not fit your playing style, you’re either going to have to find something else to do or be miserable.

That’s exactly why I stopped playing for a year, I enjoyed and am currently enjoying other games, I came back to test the waters of the Expansions, as.. well you know.. maybe Anet is not All-knowing and realized they made a mistake with HoT, believe this or not, game companies do make mistakes and don’t know their player base as well as some people might think. But they are in the business to make money, and I am simply seeing if my demographic is profitable to them.. if not.. oh well. no Loss on my part.

IndigoSundown.5419:

STIHL.2489:

IndigoSundown.5419:

OP, while you may self-identify as casual, there is little agreement among all who so identify. Some think of the word as meaning preference for easy content; others for limited time spent playing; still others for solo-only play. There may be as many understandings of what “casual” means as there are people using the term.

“Casual” is a mindset, or more aptly put, an approach on how someone plays the game. In simple terms, “casual” defines their motive and drive, as opposed to being serious about the game, or hardcore. Truth is, being “Casual” is irrespective of skill or time played. As how many hours someone invests into a game or how skilled they are at playing a game, have no bearing the mindset they have or how they approach the game.

In short, a “Casual” is not looking for a something serious that they have to work at or treat like a job, they are looking to escape into a fantasy world as someone might take a casual stroll in the woods to escape the daily grind of life.

OK, so that is your definition. That’s fine, as long as you realize that not everyone is using the word that way. Frankly, the unhelpful comments you complain about are the result of your using the word casual rather than describing your preferred play-style.

Hopefully, the other comments that you snipped from my post were helpful.

Don’t you find it odd that there would be other ways to define “casual” I mean, pause and ponder this for a moment. If you say to someone ’’I’m going for a casual stroll" they don’t think there is some time constraint to the walk, nor do they wonder how sure footed you, might be, or your ability to equip yourself for a walk Everyone instantly understand that it’s a leisure activity, something done for the enjoyment of it, never a question of your capacity to walk, or now much time you have to invest into it, but its fully understood that it’s all about your approach to taking the walk.

Just the same as if someone who is going to go on a casual boat ride, or a casual drive., there is no inclination of question their ability drive a car or a boat, the quality of the vehicle or how long or often the activity is undertaken. Its universally understood that what makes it casual is the mindset of the individual taking the cruse.

Which now begs the question, if we always understood that “casual” was a mindset when talking about any other activity, why do we suddenly get so confused when it gets applied to games?

FogLeg.9354:

STIHL.2489:

However, HoT with its mob density, abundance of mobs with break bars, coupled with no clear path to what was around you, including not being able to get POIs, and MP’s that were, as far as the map goes, right next to you, in some cases, paths were totally blocked till timed dynamic events opened them, with no clear way to know how or when these events would come about, made exploring the zones tedium to get through and an exercise in frustration to complete, for me at least.

Honestly, players who disliked HoT have long ago quit the game. Those who still play, and also post on the forums, are those who like the HoT content. (I have not played for a year myself, only checking new expansion out).

Most of the post in this, and similar threads, fall into 2 basic catgories:
- I like something so it is GOOD
- if you do not like it then you are BAD player

Yet, the beta content looks fine to me. Map is explorable, no stupid blocks for you to grind some mastery before you can continue. Enemies are normal, and not groups of veterans with crazy skills. There are normal events and so far none have required to play at exact time, use external websites to coordinate your login efforts or other HoT-specific garbage. Maybe these will appear later, but it looks really a lot like playing core GW2 so far.

If you can, try it out yourself. There is no need to torture yourself with HoT content once PoF is released.

Thank you very much for this!

Danikat.8537:

In light of this new clarification I’ve edited my post to suit your requirements. (Note, when I say ‘you’ I don’t mean you personally, it’s just that the alternative is to write ‘one feels’, ‘one can’ etc. and that sounds pretentious.)

I feel like being a casual player actually gives you an advantage in HoT, particularly regarding navigating the maps.

You’re not going in with a checklist of goals you have to complete as efficiently as possible so you can move on to the next set of goals. You’re just going to have a wander around and see what happens. You might have an end-point in mind, whether that’s reaching a particular vista or POI or the next story step or whatever, but it doesn’t matter if you don’t get there.

In the process you will get to know your way around, not by looking at the map and knowing which ‘level’ each thing is on but by remembering how you got there.

Draconis Mons is a prime example. ‘Hardcore’ players will rush through the story, getting to each point as quickly as possible without taking it in then try to start on achievements and struggle to complete them because they don’t know where anything is. Whereas casual players are more likely to take their time to look around and learn thatr the map is a spiral and if you keep going up and left you’ll get to each area eventually.

This was the case with the core game, where exploring was fun, even a relaxing experience. whee dynamic events popped up, here were hearts, POI’s, and just activity happening around you, that was both engaging and fun. Making the Core game, a casual friendly environment.

However, HoT with its mob density, abundance of mobs with break bars, coupled with no clear path to what was around you, including not being able to get POIs, and MP’s that were, as far as the map goes, right next to you, in some cases, paths were totally blocked till timed dynamic events opened them, with no clear way to know how or when these events would come about, made exploring the zones tedium to get through and an exercise in frustration to complete, for me at least.

And that was just the first one, it seemed to get worse with each consecutive map, where upon I simply gave up, and it’s sad, because I really enjoyed doing map Completion. But the way HoT was set up, with no clear direction to get to anything, and needing events to trigger doors or move up and down.. simply soiled the whole thing, again.. just my feels on the matter.

Well I can’t, and to be honest, I have no urge to respond to everyone, to be blunt, I am just going to flat out ignore anyone that opens with something like “’I’m casual, you need to L2P noob1!1!!!” or some such similar nonsense.

If you thought that would endear me to what you have to say, you are very mistaken.

IndigoSundown.5419:

OP, while you may self-identify as casual, there is little agreement among all who so identify. Some think of the word as meaning preference for easy content; others for limited time spent playing; still others for solo-only play. There may be as many understandings of what “casual” means as there are people using the term.

“Casual” is a mindset, or more aptly put, an approach on how someone plays the game. In simple terms, “casual” defines their motive and drive, as opposed to being serious about the game, or hardcore. Truth is, being “Casual” is irrespective of skill or time played. As how many hours someone invests into a game or how skilled they are at playing a game, have no bearing the mindset they have or how they approach the game.

In short, a “Casual” is not looking for a something serious that they have to work at or treat like a job, they are looking to escape into a fantasy world as someone might take a casual stroll in the woods to escape the daily grind of life.

scionofhorus.8629:

STIHL.2489:

It did.. very much so, with HoT.

In what way?

Well for openers, and this is just walking into the zone, they made travel around the zones multi-leveled (and requiring at last some masteries) thus turning each zone into ginormous jump puzzles.

But, if you really had not idea of the many thing that were done that made HoT unfriendly towards casual players, so much so that you needed to ask this question, I am going to wager that you are nowhere near close to being a casual player yourself, so, no offence to you in any way, but it would be impossible for you to gauge if PoE was in fact casual friendly or not, thus you really could not answer my question.

zealex.9410:

Like anet ever forget about the casual.

It did.. very much so, with HoT. Which is why I am asking if they decided to remember us with this upcoming expansion.

If you don’t think Anet forgot about the casuals when making HoT.. then.. simply put.. you’re not a casual so would not notice it. No shame in that.

Gullig.8796:

Either way I’m never playing this game again. I don’t care how cute the new mount bunny is.

I totally understand, Burnout happens, and you know what, taking a break is not a bad idea, stepping back and chilling off, playing some other game, or, maybe even go out side and play for a bit, can do wonders to help you revisit how much you want to invest in this game, and if it is worth the frustration.

You might come to realize that, you hit your cap, either due to skill, or simply not having the raw time to invest into mastering the mechanics, that also happens. Not everyone is going to be a twitch-god, and realizing that some content is beyond you, will happen, I am horrible at Jump puzzles, I realize that I will never master them, and will never develop that twitch skill to be good at them. I also hate doing them, which explains why I don’t bother to try and master them.

The best advice I can give you, is “never play a game past the point when it ceases being fun”

I took a year long break, and it’s been good for me, played other games, and with the expansion, I am testing the waters to see if I want to return. If the things that drove me away the first time, are as abundant as they always have been.. then.. well.. I have other options.. you might want to do the same.

Wish the best for you.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

There’s a free Beta Weekend starting tomorrow; you can check it out for yourself. I understand that means downloading the game, but you’ll only get opposite opinions here on the forum. Besides, no one really knows yet what the expansion has to offer, in full.

Good luck.

I thought people already had previews of the expansion?

Well, it’s been a while since I posted, or played for that matter, I hope things have been going well for all of you , that populations are tip top, pugs for dungeons and meta events are plentiful, and that WvW and sPvP are brimming with players. I know most people would dream that a game would collapse behind them when they left, but, I had no such dream, in fact, I hoped things would go well enough to justify a whole new expansion, and it seems it has. So. ta da.. I’m back to check it out .

Now, I left because I was unhappy with the HoT expansion and as opposed to playing a game past its’ point of fun, I simply took my own advice and moved on to other games.

HoT made it clear that Anet was moving away from it’s casual base to cater to other gamer demographics, which is fine, it’s their game, and they have every right to do whatever they want with it, my only option is play or not play , so I opted out, but, I am piqued about PoF, however before I download the game, I am wondering if PoF is more like the Core game, or is it more like HoT.

Ohoni.6057:

My point is that an easy mode would resolve that.

Just stopping in, saying Hi, good to see you still fighting the good fight, Good Luck and Have Fun with that.

Bye!

Mr Godlike.6098:

I don’t believe that LS3 will fix this mess.

I don’t believe that story mode or easy mode or solo raid mode will change anything either.

+1, totally agree with you.

Just stopping in to tell you all that I have been reading the drama.. got nothing to add to this tho.

Aesa.4819:

STIHL.2489:

Blaeys.3102:

If this is the planned path for future raids, I, personally, would rather they abandoned them altogether. That said, however, I would prefer that they look to solve this issue instead – and offer raids in a way that doesn’t create those barriers.

The raid team has moved on to other things. Personally, I would rather Anet just go back to focusing on re-building a solid lateral end game then mess with raids any further.

Yes they moved on to making new raids, which is awesome considering the quality of the content and that so many people enjoy it

I love your hopeful optimism, but the AMA made it clear they have moved on to doing something else. They have also made it clear that there is no raid development in the works, and that the only time a new raid might come out is with the next expansion.

So at least you will have that to look forward to buying.

For now, Raids are done.

Time to Move On.

slamfunction.7462:

Its a site where disgruntled workers vent. Are you happy with your job?

I’m pretty happy, and yes I do write reviews for the places I have worked. Most of them are positive.

However, there seems to be a theme among the reviews, both good and bad, that there is a disconnect with the upper management, which could be NCsoft, that they only look at the numbers and metrics. Now, as the case were, Anet might be a tight little company of great artists and designers, where everyone had a grand time, but they have a parent company, and when the marching orders come down the line, it’s pretty easy to believe that the higher-ups don’t care about anyone’s feelings or artistic expression, at the end of the day, they want a product that sells.

nsleep.7839:

Hedge Dixon.5816:

10 regular skills, up to 5 profession specific skills, weapon swap, dodge, character movement, camera movement… it is just not the amount of actions most players are comfortable with performing on a controller / joystick. It is probably reasonable to assume that most people who still want to use a controller for the game are enthusiastic enough about it to use third party software. That being said, more often than not third party software is better than native support anyway. This would also allow you to map more complex funtions to your controller buttons. I mean, sure, ANet does not allow multikey assignments, but if your controller software simulates low level keyboard events there is literally no way to find out wether you adhere to the rule

Action Camera is already in the game.

4 buttons + 4 shoulder buttons layout offers 20 action slots. There are more than enough, in GW it would probably be like:

RIght Stick – Camera
Left Stick – Movement
D-Pad – Cycle through targets, Left and Right cycle through enemy units, Up and Down Through allied units.
Default – basic attack (1), jump, roll, interact
Button 1 – Weapon attacks (From 2 to 5)
Button 2 – Healing Skill + Utility Skills (6 to 9)
Button 3 – Profession mechanics (f1 to f4)
Button 4 – Elite Skill and some other functions, like turnabout and additional profession mechanics if needed. (Engineer and Mesmers)
Start – brings the menus window, from there you can pick between the Hero or Inventory. Navigate with D-Pad, 4 buttons for confirm/use, cancel, move item, deposit.
Select – Map. Navigate with D-Pad (point to point) or Left Stick (cursor), zoom with Right Stick.

While navigating the Trading Post would still require a keyboard, even crafting is possible with this layout, main difference is that you cannot use menus while moving. The rest is similar to other games that can be played on controller, like FFXIV or Tera.

See this is why I use 3rd party soft ware.

I’d rather NOT have someone else tell me how I should set up my Controller.

Blaeys.3102:

If this is the planned path for future raids, I, personally, would rather they abandoned them altogether. That said, however, I would prefer that they look to solve this issue instead – and offer raids in a way that doesn’t create those barriers.

The raid team has moved on to other things. Personally, I would rather Anet just go back to focusing on re-building a solid lateral end game then mess with raids any further.

fabio.1637:

Well, almost 4 years of game, since the beginning people wanting to play it with a joystick, a lot of people take alternative turns, using third party software to do it.

But lately a lot of mmos are taking this route and adding controller support on, games like: Warframe, Marvel Heroes, Star Trek Online, DC Universe Online, Tera, Blade and Soul, The Elder Scrools Online, even Final Fantasy XIV.

I think its time for GW2 take this route too, i have a lot of friends who dont play GW2 just because it doesn’t have controller support, the game doesn’t need many buttons like Wow or something, it is doable, hell if a diablo like game like marvel heroes could do it, GW2 can. and common guys, we know you already have the icons.

Since I have played most of those games and often use a Controller due to hand pain, I can say their “support” sucks, and that 3rd party is the way to go, almost all of them offer a ton of customization, with profiles I can save across many games, and set my system up to suit my needs.

Tolmos.8395:

Just out of curiosity, how does Glassdoor filter the reviews they get? I mean, we are playing an MMO with quite a few players, at least a small percentage of which are likely to be trolls. How does Glassdoor stop that group from writing fake employee reviews just to mess with the company?

I would imagine we as people should be able to tell a Burnt Fan-Boi Troll, from a legitimate review, which is what should be the basic qualification to work for a Gaming MMO.

Stigas.9378:

What I LOVE:
- Free non-linear leveling system. No other game does it better.
- Trait system feels really unique. I like and dislike different traits., but the system itself feels great.
- Separation of PvP, WvW and PvE. Some balance changes affect all 3, but being able to start a character and build it up through “balanced” sPvP is awesome.
- The art. It’s beautiful. There’s no better looking MMO out there (for me).
- Unranked/Ranked sPvP. Really great way for me to remind myself that I am playing CASUALLY.
- Small details – there are a ton. The graph of which profession you played for PvP, win/loss record, Tomes of Knowledge… There are a lot of intricate details that really improve my QoL.

What I LOATHE:
- Ambiguity. There aren’t 15,000,000 players in GW2 right now so I’m left to figure things out via forums or on my own…. Not a great way to get into a deep game. I feel so incredibly lost right now learnign sPvP it’s actually making me not want to play.
- The power in pvp. I have a decent system (3770k and moderate gpu) along with the highest tier internet available… There are times where I go 100-0 before I even see the Thief appear. They’re squishy and I’m not saying “nerf dmg”, but it can be really not fun a lot of the time…
- No in-game "Wiki’. This ties to my first point. Add the gw2 wiki as a click option on items, waypoints, characters, etc. It seems really archaic to make people alt-tab to an internet window to research in-game information.
- The lack of a feedback option in-game. I’d love to leave these comments in-game for you guys to not clutter forums.

you can type /wiki into the chat bar and then link items to it, to find out what gives

Vayne.8563:

STIHL.2489:

Vayne.8563:

AliamRationem.5172:

While GW2 is different from other MMOs, I find the common thread between them is that they require secondary objectives to add replay value to the content they offer. In WoW, it was the gear treadmill. We don’t have a gear treadmill here, but legendary items serve a similar purpose. They give players a goal to work toward that requires a significant amount of time and participation in game content.

In my opinion, GW2 needs to put more thought into providing these types of objectives, but instead they seem to be moving away from that in favor of providing more content. More content is great! Don’t get me wrong. But if we don’t have these secondary objectives to go along with it, we’ll likely find ourselves asking “What’s next?” within weeks of the next release.

Legendaries are great, too. I’m working toward my first one now, and so far it’s done a great job of giving me a reason to log in. But I can’t imagine these are attractive to everyone. I suppose others go for easier collections and achievements? But ultimately I think GW2 needs to come up with more and different incentives that provide the same sort of motivation to log in and play.

There are plenty of secondary objectives in this game. Achievements/Collections give you some. For some the PvP season is a secondary objective (and getting the legendary backpack). The fractal backpack is another objective. Hell collectors and achievement hunters have plenty to do.

Then there’s of course legendaries, skin collecting, dungeon master, getting to level 100 in Fractals. There’s a ton of stuff in this game to work for. But there’s very little you have to work for.

As an example, there’s a collection for getting one of every type of ascended armor/weapons. That takes a long time.

There’s no lack of stuff to work for in this game. But since you don’t have to work for any of it, people think it’s not there.

I bet you most people who bought HoT don’t have every elite specialization weapon for example.

But… work is boring.

You can work on things that aren’t work. You can work on your tan, but mostly that involves lying in the sun. Nice try though.

No, lets get something clear, I can enjoy things that are not work, even if they take up a sizable amount of my time and energy, but they are enjoyed, simply because, they are not in fact work. Like say reading a book.

Many people would not balk at reading a 1000 page book. However, we reading a Story Book vs reading an Instructional Manual, are so vastly different, that hardly anyone compares them, often because it is well known that the manual is tedium, while the story is excitement.

Which brings us back to MMO’s. The problem with MMO’s is that they have people that want to take this Story Book, and turn it into a Manual.

And that… is when it becomes “work” and why people get bored of it and leave.

Much like “getting a Tan” vs “Working on your Tan” truth is, the people who work on their tan, take it way too seriously and suck the fun out of being in the sun.

Again, just like some MMO players.

Seyiwaji.4082:

Guild wars 2 may really have a bad management?

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ArenaNet-Reviews-E255820.htm

I was thinking about it and it seems it is true. I was wondering why less and less transparancy
The company seems to have a bad management and maybe dying from inside.
More and More people are dissatisfied.

This is reality. Now i may understand why the game is falling. Well not that the Rating Trends is that great.

Well this does validate what I thought, as far as ‘feedback’ and ‘complaining’ go.

Vayne.8563:

AliamRationem.5172:

While GW2 is different from other MMOs, I find the common thread between them is that they require secondary objectives to add replay value to the content they offer. In WoW, it was the gear treadmill. We don’t have a gear treadmill here, but legendary items serve a similar purpose. They give players a goal to work toward that requires a significant amount of time and participation in game content.

In my opinion, GW2 needs to put more thought into providing these types of objectives, but instead they seem to be moving away from that in favor of providing more content. More content is great! Don’t get me wrong. But if we don’t have these secondary objectives to go along with it, we’ll likely find ourselves asking “What’s next?” within weeks of the next release.

Legendaries are great, too. I’m working toward my first one now, and so far it’s done a great job of giving me a reason to log in. But I can’t imagine these are attractive to everyone. I suppose others go for easier collections and achievements? But ultimately I think GW2 needs to come up with more and different incentives that provide the same sort of motivation to log in and play.

There are plenty of secondary objectives in this game. Achievements/Collections give you some. For some the PvP season is a secondary objective (and getting the legendary backpack). The fractal backpack is another objective. Hell collectors and achievement hunters have plenty to do.

Then there’s of course legendaries, skin collecting, dungeon master, getting to level 100 in Fractals. There’s a ton of stuff in this game to work for. But there’s very little you have to work for.

As an example, there’s a collection for getting one of every type of ascended armor/weapons. That takes a long time.

There’s no lack of stuff to work for in this game. But since you don’t have to work for any of it, people think it’s not there.

I bet you most people who bought HoT don’t have every elite specialization weapon for example.

But… work is boring.

Well, I can’t say I am bored, more like disenchanted with the game and it’s current state.

Blaeys.3102:

STIHL.2489:

I think raids should be left alone at this point, let the people who enjoy that, enjoy that.

I’d rather Anet focus on putting out other content, and rebuilding the lateral end game they once had, then messing with raids further.

As far as the current raid, I would agree. Trying to retrofit the raid we have with tiered difficulty might not be the best use of resources.

When developing future raids, they should reconsider their approach to raiding. I firmly believe they can offer the challenge people are looking for while still offering a more accessible experience for those PVE players who enjoy the game in different ways.

Likewise, I hope that, as they are developing the next living story drops, they are taking the hardcore player into consideration.

PVE content in GW2 should be cohesive and offer an overall experience that every PVE player can enjoy. Part of that is accessibility – something this last raid didn’t offer in a meaningful way, imo. I hope that Anet saw this, learned a lesson from it, and will apply that lesson to future raid development.

The idea of making hardcore versions of every PVE element in the game is unrealistic – I realize that. That doesn’t mean that they cannot strive to better balance that kind of thing throughout the game more.

What I believe they should never do, however, is wall off an entire game mode and make it only for hardcore players. That creates barriers to entry that directly conflict with the idea of offering PVE players a big picture experience that spans multiple experiences.

I want hardcore content in the game. I want eyebleeding challenges. What I don’t want is content that encourages division (and, yes, even elitism) among the playerbase. That isn’t the game we played for the first 3 and a half years – which was (and still is and can continue to be) the best MMO ever made.

Anet used Achievements within the Content itself as a means to challenge Hardcore/Skilled players, with some of them requiring team work, study, twitch, etc, to attain and rewarding the player with unique items, titles, AP, etc for their efforts.

I thought that was a good system, as it made content inclusive to various skill levels, and play styles.

But, at this point, I think raids should be left alone. They are done, and it’s time to move on, not dwell on them.

I think raids should be left alone at this point, let the people who enjoy that, enjoy that.

I’d rather Anet focus on putting out other content, and rebuilding the lateral end game they once had, then messing with raids further.

Miellyn.6847:

And I also love how you ignore statments that undermine everything you said and nobody can take you serious anymore.

Those statements are said just to incite argument, just like this one. Hence why I also have to ignore around 90% of what you say as well.

also, minor note:

Miellyn.6847:

The shatterer is not harder than before. It is different and you can not afk it without dying anymore.

You realize that “you cannot afk without dying anymore” is because it’s harder then before.

I believe we are done.

Miellyn.6847:

First of all, we take PUGs with us

I am really loving how the stories keep changing.

AliamRationem.5172:

Once per week, if enough players show up.

Then again you both could be in different guilds, but the way you were posting together, did make it seem like you were both together.

Also, I don’t think someone who has been playing for, I believe you said 4 months, has any place to talk to players who have been playing for years about “instant gratification”

But I stand by what I said above, about your guild, not being casual, or having casual players among them. I mean look at you, 4 months, and I wager all the characters in your sig are raid ready, that’s some serious achievements, pretty impressively hardcore if you ask me, given that you said you have been working on raids, so that means in reality, 3 character in full ascended in less then 2 months.

Color me Impressed.

Now you might be inspired to try and downplay that, but that would further along how seriously hardcore you must approach the game, if you don’t think that is something impressive. So I don’t mean to be rude, but truth is, just by your posts, it’s pretty clear you have no understanding of the Casual Demographic.

So I am not sure what your intent is, in either case.

This Topic is, Did Anet Forget their Casual Players.

And in Truth, they moved the game away from their Casual base, they just put out a full Expansion, that catered to the Hardcore players, coupled that with some minor changes to the core game, with the way Fractal Rewards, all new Legendary Weapons Account bound, update to make the Dragon Metas much harder, it’s a small series of little things, and it really does look like Anet is flipping the bird pretty seriously at their casual base.

Like any game that does that, yah, I hope it bites them in the kitten , only because I would love for it be a cautionary tale to other game developers to not do the same.

slashlizardy.9167:

Great posts Stihl

Thank you!

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

STIHL.2489:

Stop trying to make Casuals out to be something they are not.

That’s good advice and, no offense, but you really should be the first to take it. I’ve been following your posts and you’ve done nothing but define casuals and casual play by your own terms in a calculated way to bolster your own subjective argument. You’ve invented a ‘casual group’ and made yourself spokesman for it. You’re voicing your own opinion (as we all are) and there’s nothing wrong with that – except that you’re acting like it’s fact and like you speak for all us ‘casuals’. And worse, you’re making us out to be victims, unable to cope with change and unable to adapt. It’s insulting and untrue.

I’m a casual. I play two nights a week if I can, I don’t min-max and I still can’t see tells. My technique is mashing buttons and I have all the usual familiar responsbilities and time constraints that all us ‘casuals’ seem to have. (I don’t have a dog. Does that make me hard-core?) And I enjoy HOT. Let’s get that clear. I ENJOY HOT and don’t find it a struggle or grind.

You’re telling me that you can play some hackneyed build and ‘button mash’ your way though Champion Skill Point Challenges? High densities of Guard Snipers and Guard Punishers and Pocket Raptors, as well as Itzl Bladedancer and Shadowleapers, and that’s not even getting out of VB.

That’s one extraordinary claim. In fact that kind of claim is so surrealistic that I’d love to watch a video of that happening, I’d be captivated watching some casual player just mashes all their skills on some medi guard in full nomads using vampire runes, with staff and sword/shield, and take down vast sums of mobs in HOT.

It would be surreal to see that happen, since I know it can’t.

As for What a Casual can and Can’t do, that is on them. However, the Requirement for Mastery Ranks just to map complete, makes HOT Open World Content a Grind, which is often considered to be Anti-Casual. Now, I’ll admit, there is always that special snowflake that has 1 hour a week to play and adores the prospect of using it to grind mastery ranks just to talk to some frogs, because they love that whole process.

I am sure that person would tell me I don’t speak for them either, and they would be right.

Miellyn.6847:

We’re willing to take our time.

This is the difference between casuals and ‘casuals’. The complainers want instant results/satisfaction. Raids are casual and accessible, they just don’t provide instant satisfaction as you need to learn the encounters.

This is laughable, Lets get a few thing clear here, you’re little static group, that bails if not enough people show up, means you won’t pug, which is an elitist approach to game playing, not a casual one. Not to mention you have made it clear that your members also raid with other groups/guilds. So All of the people in the guild are serious about being raiders, which makes all the individuals hardcore players.

Thus, you’re not casual players, in fact, If you want to say you’re guild does a “casual raid Night”, you can, but that in no way makes any of you actual casual players, or affiliated to the casual demographic in any way.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

Yes, Anet Abandoned their Casual Demographic, not only with HOT, (which include raids) but also other little things, like the Fractal Reward Revamp.

It’s not about not having anything to do, it’s about not having anything to look forward to, since the end game is now all about static groups, and optimized builds, there is really, no reason to even bother making an effort to get there for most Casual players.

AliamRationem.5172:

STIHL.2489:

You know what, I’ll go agree to the idea that maybe from time to time there is this bunch of casual friends, guildies, whatever, that get together, maybe drink a bit and think they are gonna be all star raiders for the night, it’s this fun little dream for them, and they go in and fail miserably at it, but they had their laughs, they had a good time, and might some day try that again, All good!

Here is a heads up, That is not enjoying challenging content, that is called “Goofing Around” because they are not in fact doing anything to raise up to the challenge of the content, master it, and overcome it, Which is exactly what makes them casuals to begin with.

Stop trying to make Casuals out to be something they are not.

Stop trying to narrowly define “casual” to support your own agenda. I don’t know how casual I am, but I would identify my guild’s approach to raiding as casual:

Once per week, if enough players show up. Comp is volunteer-based. If nobody wants to perform a critical role and we don’t think it’s worth making the attempt, we skip raiding for that week. Nobody trash-talks anybody. Nobody takes it seriously. We’ve downed only one boss, but anyone is welcome to go and raid with another guild if they’d like to progress more quickly. It’s no big deal.

How is that not casual raiding by your own definition?

You just did what I said a Casual would do, you approach content in a non-serious manner, with no intent or drive to master or overcome it. That is what goofing around with raids is, you’re playing with it, as opposed to playing it.

But again, casual is not a “Guild” thing, it’s an individual thing. It’s how an individual approaches the game, and their personal mindset. You could have the most Chillax guild out there, and have still have members that are super hardcore, among the ranks.

Also, Just because the Raid Schedule, and attitude for that guild run is marketed as "Not Serious’ does not mean that the people showing up are not hardcore players, some of them could be very hardcore, very driven to have optimal builds, and be the best they can be at this game.

You see there is a massive difference between Hardcore and Elitist. Hardcore players can be very sociable even easy going as far as dealing with other people go, in fact a Hardcore player could be chill with your casual guild run, because they enjoy the social moment of hanging with you all, I’ve done that more then I care to admit. I used to be very hardcore, but, I still had my social friends, many of which did not share my drive to overcome the game, and I’d down shift when I played with them, teach them a trick or two, and realize that this was just for goofing around, but my build was top tier optimal, and had already spent a lot of time mastering the moves to the encounter, and I already had a real raid night lined up, in fact, I was not expecting to ever win with my casual friends. It was just the way it was, in fact, often enough, I’d feel bad if we won, because it would mean I was going to be on timer for my real raid night, and then I needed to buy bypasses from the store, or play an alt. Which was why I always had two healers, LOL.

Anyway. Look, not sure what your goal is with this. So, gonna stop.

Seera.5916:

But some non-job related things do need some level of actual organization to be pulled off. Small party for the Super Bowl? You need to know how many are coming, food preferences, etc. So you know if you need to buy 1 or 2 bags of wings and fries. It’s not like a Super Bowl party needs to be super fancy and regulated with weeks of planning and setting up. You could probably do it the morning of if you’re lucky or not picky on what flavor wings you want.

A Super Bowl Party is easy, because it is a set event by the NFL, either people can make it, or they can’t, the event will happen none the less.

It’s more like a Jormag then Raid.

Also, with a super bowl party, if half the people don’t show, or a few can’t make it, so what, you and your buds are still gonna sit there, eat whatever, and watch the game.

Again, More Like a Jormag then a Raid.

So please stop saying that all casual players are the exact same when it comes to what they enjoy doing in a game and how they enjoy doing it. Not all casuals abhor challenging content like raids. Some like getting together on occasional weekends when the planets align properly for them and attempting to be successful at raiding. Even if they end up failing to succeed. IE: they’re in it for the experience and not the success or the shiny at the end. And therefore not needing to spend hours studying up on how to beat the boss or perfecting builds to be the best composition ever.

You know what, I’ll go agree to the idea that maybe from time to time there is this bunch of casual friends, guildies, whatever, that get together, maybe drink a bit and think they are gonna be all star raiders for the night, it’s this fun little dream for them, and they go in and fail miserably at it, but they had their laughs, they had a good time, and might some day try that again, All good!

Here is a heads up, That is not enjoying challenging content, that is called “Goofing Around” because they are not in fact doing anything to raise up to the challenge of the content, master it, and overcome it, Which is exactly what makes them casuals to begin with.

Stop trying to make Casuals out to be something they are not.

Seera.5916:

STIHL.2489:

Seera.5916:

So please define casual as it applies to your posts

Casual, defined is often associated with relaxed approach, with notations of not possessing Serious Intent while engaging in the activity. IE: They are just Casually Playing a game of B-Ball, they are not looking to deal with some NBA wannabe.

When it comes to MMO’s, often it means people who want to be able to just play the game, not treat it like a second job. Casuals realize they are not going to save the world playing a MMO, in fact they are not even going to learn any valuable life skills, it’s just purposeless entertainment.

Urban Dictionary Offered this Gem of a Definition.

“Casual” – A pejorative term used by the “gaming elite” to describe any person(s) who doesn’t measure up the standards these sycophants have set for their definition of what a true gamer is.

So it’s not a question of skill, but as you said,it’s only when you have the right mindset, but what do you do when you don’t?

So by your own definition ANet hasn’t lost forgotten the casual gamer at all.

More like kicked to the curb then Forgotten.

I mean really, you need to grind mastery lines just to do map completion, as far as open world goes, it does not get too much more anti-casual then that, except maybe if they put in high mob density, required players to stay full cycle for events which were made into chained events as opposed to single stand alone events, and then put in break bars on what would essentially be trash mobs.. Oh wait.. yah they did all that too.

Forgotten, would be way too nice a word at that point, for what they did the casual group with HoT.

Raids are enjoyable by players just doing it for the sake of doing it and not trying to beat the fastest time.

Raids can’t be open pugged, thus players are required to build a network of other players to group with, 9 at the very least or join raiding guild, which would still require them to build a network other players in the guild. Then they need to scheduled play times, where they could all be on. On top of that, the player then needs to farm up the gear and copy or design an optimized build, once that is done they also need to master their role, which would take substantial outside of the game study, which is about as Anti-Casual as you can get, and they have not even got into doing the actual raid yet.

There are things that aren’t job related that you have to schedule. Group outings with friends. Where? When? Who’s coming? How long? And that could be all of a 5 minute conversation except maybe narrowing down the when and where.

Telling 100 random people to show up someplace and party, is easy, but that is what a Jormag event is, which is well known to be ultra-casual.

Scheduling a Fine Dinning Experience for a Quadruple Date event, that takes some serious work, especially if they all have dietary conflicts and you don’t even have a date. Which is what a Casual is in fact trying to do when they attempt to raid.

Yah.. Forgotten, would be putting it way to nicely at this point.

Seera.5916:

So please define casual as it applies to your posts

Casual, defined is often associated with relaxed approach, with notations of not possessing Serious Intent while engaging in the activity. IE: They are just Casually Playing a game of B-Ball, they are not looking to deal with some NBA wannabe.

When it comes to MMO’s, often it means people who want to be able to just play the game, not treat it like a second job. Casuals realize they are not going to save the world playing a MMO, in fact they are not even going to learn any valuable life skills, it’s just purposeless entertainment.

Urban Dictionary Offered this Gem of a Definition.

“Casual” – A pejorative term used by the “gaming elite” to describe any person(s) who doesn’t measure up the standards these sycophants have set for their definition of what a true gamer is.

So it’s not a question of skill, but as you said,it’s only when you have the right mindset, but what do you do when you don’t?

Gudradain.3892:

No matter how I look at it, it really feels like the first boss of the wing 3 is a direct response to the complaints to get an easy mode in raids. They frankly cannot make it easier.

Nahh.

It’s all about participation levels. People could complain till they were blue in the face, if the numbers look good, nothing is gonna change.

I would bet that since W1, was new thing to GW2, they had a staggering number of people give it a try, in fact I would bet, that most, if not everyone that bought HOT tried to raid at least once, maybe a few times. With would have given Anet something like 30% of the player base doing raids, which is amazing! That is a smashing success!

But, as with all “difficult” content, many quickly learned they have no place doing it.

So, when the new shiny wore off, W2 came out, I would bet Anet saw the same numbers as other MMO’s with around 3 – 5 % of the players doing the raid.

Now, anyone in any business, especially the entertainment business, would know that it’s Hard to explain to a 85- 90% drop in activity to the Boss and Bean Counters.

So, it’s most likely that W3, is a move to try and make raids more attractive to the larger more casual demographic.. but don’t worry, it will fail and raids will remain special..

Because by this time, it’s no doubt that enough players have already been jaded by W1, that they won’t even bother with W3 no matter how easy they made it, much like they did not even try to do W2.

Zui.9245:

Raids are already casual-friendly if you put in the effort.

LOL. This is saying “OH yah it’s casual if you are a hardcore player”

Love these kinds of posts.

Ellie.5913:

Ryou.2398:

I don’t get why so many feel entitled after getting 1000s of hours from this game, I have never seen so many make such a deal and claim the sky is falling over an mmorpg releasing some harder content before, usually people understand why there needs to be a mixture, your just going to have to be patient, you aren’t paying a monthly fee if you don’t mind it, then play something else until they release the content you want.

Its not doing any good making thread after thread as how you think the game should be, there is criticism and there is entitlement.

YES perfect solution, I agree. We should all leave the game and come back in a couple years (or longer) after they’ve added something we’d enjoy doing. Eureka!

+1 I agree with this solution. Casual players should take this moment to move on to something else, nothing gets your voice heard more then when you quietly stop paying.

IndigoSundown.5419:

To my mind, this makes the casual market harder to design for, because what motivates some of them does not motivate the rest.

Casuals want the same thing every gamer wants, they want to feel special while playing a game.

It’s not much to ask, and it’s not hard to provide, because at one time GW2 did a pretty decent of job of doing exactly that. HOT, really ruined it, an entire expansion and not a single thing directed towards the casual demographic.

The raids where just salt on the gaping wound that was HOT.