Guild Wars 2

DeanBB.4268:

What is the average skill activation time? 1/2 second? 3/4 second? Your bard would get to play 1-3 notes, maybe. And auto-attack would drive me crazy, methinks. Or do they sing? That would be worse.

Unless a bard in an MMO doesn’t work via music, in which case perhaps your vision of a bard needs further explanation. And saying “a bard like Game X” isn’t helpful.

Or maybe the bard would just shove their mandolin up your kitten while you are trying to cast a spell on them?

Rhanoa.3960:

STIHL.2489:

Thornwolf.9721:

STIHL.2489:

Thornwolf.9721:

If we get a Bard I want a tamer for my ranger.

Two pets out at all times, spec focuses on making them kittenes and loosing the ability too switch between them. Id prefer a rifle as a weapon but pistols will do perfectly fine, call it “The Huntsmen” and its done.

No offence, but that does not sound very “Bard like” it sounds more like a Ranger with a Sidearm.

Its not supposed to, I was saying if you get bard then I Want this. Sorry for the misunderstanding there.

Why should anyone have to get something else if they put Bards into the game?

If they put bards into the game, then you get the chance to enjoy playing a bard in GW2, which should be it’s own reward.

You’ll need Mastery Points to unlock Bards.

Why? if it’s an elite spec that would Hero Points, not mastery points, and if it’s and added class it would be unlocked with Cash, not mastery points.

Djinn.9245:

STIHL.2489:

maddoctor.2738:

STIHL.2489:

Well I spent a little time back in VB , and I have noticed there are a lot less mobs floating around, and they seem much easier then I remember.

They did not change mob spawns in VB it’s same as it was at launch. As for difficulty, the only thing I remember changing was the itzel shadowleaper ability to evade ranged attacks, it know evades projectiles not all ranged attacks if I’m not mistaken. If anything, at launch it was easier due to the number of players around.

Of course if you were trying to move through while the dozens of players were fighting in events, it was more than likely you had to fight event-scaled mobs and maybe those caused you all that trouble. Spawning scaling mobs is the normal thing to do even on core tyria maps, try moving through the area around Tequatl when the event is active and you will notice mobs that 1-shot you, or moving between the Penit-Shelter waypoints in Cursed Shore while either event is ongoing. That’s not HoT-specific

Humm, well it felt like such a slog the first few months I tried to play, to the point that exploring was not so much about exploring and seeing the zone and looking at what was about, it was all nothing but these endless stupid hard fights… all the time.

Also I did a flamethrower engineer for the stability boon in HoT, because all that stuff has those stupid knock backs.

Understand that what you are responding to is an opinion presented as fact. There is no hard data on exactly what was changed. It is my opinion that people who liked HoT quickly became acclimated to the mobs / maps and so didn’t find them as difficult as I and many other casual players did in the first place.

Well I just got back over a long absence, and have no idea how most of m skills work.. as such my play-style at time looks like this.. .

Vayne.8563:

STIHL.2489:

Rhanoa.3960:

Vayne.8563:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Daddicus.6128:

Rhanoa.3960:

Has the game really failed? Far from it.

Nobody said it did; well, nobody other than you.

We said Heart of Thorns failed. Which it did.

It did not, not by any reasonable measure. It didn’t do as well as predicted, which is very different.

You realize that not meeting predictions, is Failure.. right?

forecast that’d we’d make a certain profit, but something would happen and we made less. But the business wasn’t failing. The prediction didn’t take into account certain realities we’d be unaware of.

Based off the OPs statements throughout this thread, I really hope he is not a hiring manager.

I’d be offended, but, I read what you think retaining clients means, and the fact that Vayne does not seem to grasp the very profound difference between RoI and just making a sales goal… I simply can’t be.

In order for HoT to be a failure, you’d have to prove a couple of things. First, that more people left because of HOT, or stopped playing because of it than people who came back or started ;playing. That’s almost impossible to prove either way.

You can say a certain percentage of people didn’t like HoT. It’s true.

As for ROI, unless you work for Anet’s account department or management, you have no way to know the ROI on HoT. You’d be guessing at best.

The nice flat casual friendly maps of PoE.. tell me all I need to know.

Palador.2170:

Bard, huh? I guess it could work. Make instruments into kits like the engineer has, but mostly focused on support. One instrument for healing, one for offensive buffs, one for defensive buffs, one for debuffing, and one for inflicting status/conditions?

That could work, or maybe do like a Revernant, where you swap between Woodwinds, Percussion, Stringed, Etc in the Utility Abilities.

Or even do that like an Ele, where all your abilities change based on what Instrument style you use.

oooo or maybe have ALL your Abilities change based on the Kit you equip, But te Kit would be the elite Skill, so you can only use one Kit, but. if you Equip the Kit “Drums of Doom”, it changes the effects of all your attacks, and utility abilities.

That could be a lot of fun!

maddoctor.2738:

STIHL.2489:

Well I spent a little time back in VB , and I have noticed there are a lot less mobs floating around, and they seem much easier then I remember.

They did not change mob spawns in VB it’s same as it was at launch. As for difficulty, the only thing I remember changing was the itzel shadowleaper ability to evade ranged attacks, it know evades projectiles not all ranged attacks if I’m not mistaken. If anything, at launch it was easier due to the number of players around.

Of course if you were trying to move through while the dozens of players were fighting in events, it was more than likely you had to fight event-scaled mobs and maybe those caused you all that trouble. Spawning scaling mobs is the normal thing to do even on core tyria maps, try moving through the area around Tequatl when the event is active and you will notice mobs that 1-shot you, or moving between the Penit-Shelter waypoints in Cursed Shore while either event is ongoing. That’s not HoT-specific

Humm, well it felt like such a slog the first few months I tried to play, to the point that exploring was not so much about exploring and seeing the zone and looking at what was about, it was all nothing but these endless stupid hard fights… all the time.

Also I did a flamethrower engineer for the stability boon in HoT, because all that stuff has those stupid knock backs.

Thornwolf.9721:

STIHL.2489:

Thornwolf.9721:

If we get a Bard I want a tamer for my ranger.

Two pets out at all times, spec focuses on making them kittenes and loosing the ability too switch between them. Id prefer a rifle as a weapon but pistols will do perfectly fine, call it “The Huntsmen” and its done.

No offence, but that does not sound very “Bard like” it sounds more like a Ranger with a Sidearm.

Its not supposed to, I was saying if you get bard then I Want this. Sorry for the misunderstanding there.

Why should anyone have to get something else if they put Bards into the game?

If they put bards into the game, then you get the chance to enjoy playing a bard in GW2, which should be it’s own reward.

Rhanoa.3960:

Vayne.8563:

STIHL.2489:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Daddicus.6128:

Rhanoa.3960:

Has the game really failed? Far from it.

Nobody said it did; well, nobody other than you.

We said Heart of Thorns failed. Which it did.

It did not, not by any reasonable measure. It didn’t do as well as predicted, which is very different.

You realize that not meeting predictions, is Failure.. right?

forecast that’d we’d make a certain profit, but something would happen and we made less. But the business wasn’t failing. The prediction didn’t take into account certain realities we’d be unaware of.

Based off the OPs statements throughout this thread, I really hope he is not a hiring manager.

I’d be offended, but, I read what you think retaining clients means, and the fact that Vayne does not seem to grasp the very profound difference between RoI and just making a sales goal… I simply can’t be.

maddoctor.2738:

Djinn.9245:

No, it is literal truth for me in general

The only place really full with mobs is the Rata Novus lane in Tangled Depths. You can find places to stop and places without any mob spawns nearly everywhere else

Well I spent a little time back in VB , and I have noticed there are a lot less mobs floating around, and they seem much easier then I remember.

But the current incarnation of HoT is not indicative of what it was like to try and transverse HoT at launch.

Thornwolf.9721:

If we get a Bard I want a tamer for my ranger.

Two pets out at all times, spec focuses on making them kittenes and loosing the ability too switch between them. Id prefer a rifle as a weapon but pistols will do perfectly fine, call it “The Huntsmen” and its done.

No offence, but that does not sound very “Bard like” it sounds more like a Ranger with a Sidearm.

vicious.5683:

azizul.8469:

you mean Bard like LOTRO Minstrel ?

like ad&d bard.

’m not picky, in fact, I would love to see Anet make their own spin on the Bard, just to see what their creative team could come up with.

No really.. I would love to see a class that uses music to kick ginormous kitten I am sure that a lot of other people would too!

Think about it, ya all made the Legendary Focus The Minstrel, that screams “We were planning to make a Bard (or bard like class) sometime in the future”

So.. how about it Anet?

can ya make us a Bard?

Rhanoa.3960:

What I do not understand is why you keep logging in?

Ummmm.. As I said in the OP, the new expansion piqued my interest.

That is not retaining me, that is attracting me back, I left for over a year, spending my money on other games.

Now, if you believe that motivating your clients to spend their money on your competitors products as “retaining” them, I can see why you would view HoT as a smashing success.

AliamRationem.5172:

Not necessarily. What I’m telling you is that I don’t play the way hardcore players do.

What you seem to be missing, is that You are not playing the way Hardcore Players in WoW play, but that has no relation to what demographic you fall into among the GW2 community.

To me, that’s the definition of a casual. And it’s something that I feel GW2 does a great job of encouraging. Play the way I want to play.

Again.. yes.. GW2 fosters that community, as such it has a totally different social setting, which means you very may fall into a totally different rung on the ‘leet’ ladder, not to mention, you may enjoy GW2 more then WoW, so instinctively you play it more, are more invested into it. and thus are inherently driven to be better at it then you ever were with WoW, thus even without thinking about it, you gravitate towards being a far more serious gamer.

Simply put.. just because you were a Casual among WoW’s population, does not mean you are a Casual among GW2’s population.

After all, I would wager that there are a fair number of people who play GW2 that never even bothered to touch WoW, due to how demanding the game is.

And since you mention it, I did my time in WoW. I played from Vanilla through BC and WotLK. I was a hardcore raider in a best-on-server guild and later led my own raiding guild where I was raid leader and played critical roles like main tank, off-tank, and raid healer. I enjoyed it at the time, but I got tired of the way it began to feel like a full-time job. That’s what I think of when I think “hardcore”, and GW2 really doesn’t have a lot of that even for those who enjoy that sort of gameplay.

Bingo.. GW2 even at its most ‘leet’ is still nowhere near WoW’s level, as such, what is casual to WoW, is not necessarily Casual to GW2.

I think you’re a lot more “Hardcore” in this game, then you realize.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Daddicus.6128:

Rhanoa.3960:

Has the game really failed? Far from it.

Nobody said it did; well, nobody other than you.

We said Heart of Thorns failed. Which it did.

It did not, not by any reasonable measure. It didn’t do as well as predicted, which is very different.

You realize that not meeting predictions, is Failure.. right?

AliamRationem.5172:

Daddicus.6128:

Ashen.2907:

Personally, I think that, especially in an MMO, 15 hours per week is well within the realm of casual.

I agree. I’ve spent over 25 hours a week, but I’m definitely casual. I don’t think hours played is a defining characteristic of casual.

Actually, the definition of the word “casual” seems to be pretty casually-stated.

So, the word “casual” probably isn’t limited to any one definition. It’s probably more of a section of a continuum. Things like:

• Many hours vs. few hours.
• Solo vs. group-centric attitudes.
• Easy play vs. hard play.
• Structured play vs. unstructured.

and probably a lot more. Casuals would tend to be on one side of any summary of those tallies, and hardcores on the other. But, no one thing “defines” either group.

I agree. As I said before, the most defining characteristic of “casual” from my WoW experience was an unwillingness to schedule one’s life around the game. Generally, this referred to raiding, where any one individual’s schedule must align with the needs of the 9-39 other players in the group.

A corollary of that is that players who didn’t raid tended to be (mostly) solo players. And because any player that was insufficiently skilled and/or experienced with the game to raid generally didn’t raid, and was therefore likely to be a solo player, being a solo player was often associated with a lack of skill as well.

That may define the “average” casual player, but I don’t think it fits all of them. I consider myself at least somewhat casual because I dislike organized group PvE. I have only 2 raid boss kills (VG and that escort boss) and my fractal level isn’t very high either. As a result, I spend most of my time solo and I generally refuse to commit to showing up to play for group gameplay, as a rule.

On the other hand, I loved exploring the HoT maps and I can solo every hero point champion, every bandit champion (including the legendary executioner), I hit platinum rank my first season in PvP, too. And I spend quite a lot of time playing GW2. I also have 3 legendaries crafted so far and did every achievement in SAB this year.

Probably not the “average” casual, but I am a mostly solo player that won’t commit to group content on a schedule.

Now, given how many people have said, (in this topic alone) that GW2 is very casual friendly, that it’s demographic is made up mostly of what gamers from games like WoW would consider casual players, which is easy enough to believe, given how Solo Friendly GW2’s design is, couple that with how much time you have invested into it (which I am going to be bet was more then you put into WoW, since the was more appealing to you, given how much easier it is then WoW to get to the end game and be optimally equipped) that by GW2 standards you fall into the category of a Serous Player?

Raiff.6742:

Hey everyone, I’m returning to the game in anticipation of the new expansion. I want to play something like a Bard (poet/musician with magic and combat abilities). I’m wondering which class would best exemplify this. I’m thinking Mesmer, but it doesn’t seem quite right. Can anyone give me some pointers?

Thank you.

Bards are often portrayed as medium armored rapier users, that use arcane (as opposed to a rangers natural) magic to give them an edge in combat.. so.. if you want play a bard in GW2, I would suggest playing a Thief Daredevil, and dress really foppish.. also carry around a musical thingy..

TexZero.7910:

Daddicus.6128:

TexZero.7910:

HoT failed ?

Coulda fooled me with the pre-sales/sales numbers of just the expansion and the ever steady gemstore purchases.

So, the CEO, what, lied?

Further, the failure was precisely because of the presale numbers. Those players spent their money, and expected something. But, they were given something very different from that expectation. They were burned, and that cost the company a great deal of player good will. ANet and NCSoft knew that this would prevent many sales of the second expansion. (Which it has, as is witnessed right here in this thread.)

That’s almost certainly the reason we got a preview. They simply cannot afford another HoT.

Show me anywhere where Mo said HoT failed.

I’ll wait for it.

Additionally horrible logic, we got a demo weekend for literally the same reason we had a HoT beta weekend. Hype. Literally as simple as that, hype generates sales, just as it did for HoT.

The only people who legit think HoT failed are the same people who misunderstand the quaterly reports and look at a less than 1% decrease in Gemstore sales as a statement for how the game is currently running.

If, lets just say IF, HoT was as much a smashing success as you claim.. why is the new expansion nothing at all like it? You would think if what HoT put out was where the money was.. they would make more of it.. Hummmmm.

Daddicus.6128:

They simply cannot afford another HoT.

Preach it!

Daddicus.6128:

STIHL.2489:

Vayne.8563:

VB is not a giant jumping puzzle, you can walk from one end to the other, if you so choose.

I have tried this with no luck, can you show me a guide of how to do this or a video?

I think that’s because mapping VB is very different from simply traversing it. To simply make your way across, I found the best way is to go through the story. Unfortunately, that means collecting enough XP to get a couple of required masteries: bounding mushrooms, gliding, and updrafts.

But, if you really want to just walk across, probably the easiest way is to go north from the entrance until you get near the Batrach Falls PoI. Then, backtrack a bit and take the west-leading road that crosses the river.

Follow the actual trail until you get to the Last Leap PoI (or just past the Brooding Gulch PoI). The road zig-zags there, but your goal is to keep going straight west.

Then you’ll keep going until you get to a dead end that has two bridges, one pointing WSW and the other SSW. Take the SSW one, and keep going roughly SSW into Coztic Grounds. Take the west-leading path, until you get to a gigantic tree that contuse the path west.

Then, keep following the path. It gradually turns SW and then S, until you hit the next zone.

I recommend the story method, though. But, to get the XP for the needed masteries, abandon VB and head to one of the LWS3 zones. Collect the XP there, but not the masteries from LWS3. Instead, take the masteries from HoT. That will make it a LOT easier to get around in HoT.

Thanks for the Info!

I’ll look into that!

Daddicus.6128:

Rhanoa.3960:

HOT didn’t fail, the Players DID!

This is false.

Well it’s sorta true, I mean, when you think about it, the players that loved HoT, did not step up and fill the fiscal void left by the players that hated it.

So in essence, the players that Loved HoT failed Anet by not investing back into the company that chose to cater to them.

Djinn.9245:

STIHL.2489:

Vayne.8563:

VB is not a giant jumping puzzle, you can walk from one end to the other, if you so choose.

I have tried this with no luck, can you show me a guide of how to do this or a video?

He just said “walk”, he didn’t say “accomplish anything”. Which if you are trying to do map completion, MPs, Story, etc. you can’t. So I’m really not sure what his point is except to be a red herring.

Oh good catch! Thanks for pointing that out!

Wolfheart.7483:

My thoughts regarding this entire topic aside, your statement here is a big problem with people on the forums. You assume you represent the standard casual player and other casual players are the exception to your rule. You cite the replies in this thread as evidence of that.

Often enough, people will come posing as casuals or be blatant sock puppet accounts,
but they always give away little clues of what they really are, often involving lines like “Lean to play” or “Casuals ruined the game”

It’s not so much that I may or may not be an average casual.. it’s more about how far removed from being casual my critics are.

I was lagged beyond belief, but, from what I did, it felt like a proper expansion to the CORE Game of GW2, things were just a tad harder, but enough to inspire transition and growth into these new areas. The mounts were a nice touch, (looking forward to a slew of cosmetic versions soon). All in all, from what little I could play, it looked inviting.

Rashagar.8349:

STIHL.2489:

Well, After getting to play the demo for a bit (and I really wish they had given us a HoT demo like this), I am willing to openly admit that it is much more palatable then HoT ever was, the maps seemed much easier to transverse, and it felt very close to how Core felt, which is a great thing. From the limited bit I played, this truly felt like what their first expansion should have been like, a nice smooth addition that feels like a continuation of the Core game, just a bit harder with some added new things going on.

It’s a beautiful game, and I can see why some people still plat it.

But, to be honest, I am just not feeling any urgency to invest, still feeling a bit burned by HoT.. so, gonna let this one simmer for a bit.

Thank you to the people that took the time to give me insight and answers.

Glad you enjoyed. Seeing for yourself is always the best approach. No one will know your tastes better than you do after all =)

I am glad they had this demo, if the had done this for HoT, it may have saved themselves the heartache of all disenchanted and alienated players that erupted from it.

Vayne.8563:

VB is not a giant jumping puzzle, you can walk from one end to the other, if you so choose.

I have tried this with no luck, can you show me a guide of how to do this or a video?

Parrish.7960:

Endest.5729:

Does not matter what you call them “casual”, low intesnsity", “noob”, etc. What really matters is that HoT was a massive failure. Never before has a AAA MMO had it first xpac fail utterly. EQ, WOW, FFXIV, etc all of these did not see a drop in players/income until they were three or four or more xpacs in.

These are public facts. Any one can look at the financial reports and see how GW2 income plunged. The lead designer was fired because HoT was such a failure.

So for the tens of thousands of ex-GW2 players who left because HoT was annoying (hard or easy is not the question). It failed because people did not like playing the zones. The vast majority of players did not care about hardcore raiding or eSports.

So question is did they learn their lesson. Will we get back to the orginal GW2 that sold by the truck loads. I am still not sure. But so far it seems like they are doing a few things right.

I came back to GW2 after a long absence and was really enjoying the base game. Then I hit the HoT content and not only did not enjoy it, actively disliked it. I thought, if this is where they are taking GW2, then I’m done. Really done.

So the question of whether GW2 is heading back to their original game concepts with PoF is very pertinent. I’m sure I’m not the only former-GW2 player trying to get a sense of whether PoF is more HoT or not, whether to be hopeful or simply resigned.

Anyway, I tried the demo but there wasn’t enough of it to make a conclusion about what direction the content is going or what the maps outside of the first city may look like.

The sad fact is that I so disliked HoT that I’m not going to be easily wooed back to GW2. PoF is going to have to be reviewed extensively and well-received by the community before I seriously consider it.

I feel very much the same way… gonna let PoE simmer a bit, see what happens after launch, while it looks promising, a much better direction then HoT, but it’s still too early to tell.

Djinn.9245:

Rhanoa.3960:

STIHL.2489:

AliamRationem.5172:

The point being that speaking for casual players does not validate any of your points, because the fact is casuals are not a uniform group that play the way you do and share your views on the game.

If you followed the topic, you would see that it’s pretty clear that I do speak for the real casuals, not the wannabes’ that try to pass off as ones, so they can say “l2p” and think anyone will actually listen to them.

You do not represent the casuals and I am far from being a wannabe. Your experience in game is nothing more than subjective.

Over how much play time?

With the way they proclaim that Casuals have ruined the game, but only have 6K after starting in beta in 2012, and love HoT, I am going to guess it’s some hardcores alt account at this point.

Well, After getting to play the demo for a bit (and I really wish they had given us a HoT demo like this), I am willing to openly admit that it is much more palatable then HoT ever was, the maps seemed much easier to transverse, and it felt very close to how Core felt, which is a great thing. From the limited bit I played, this truly felt like what their first expansion should have been like, a nice smooth addition that feels like a continuation of the Core game, just a bit harder with some added new things going on.

It’s a beautiful game, and I can see why some people still plat it.

But, to be honest, I am just not feeling any urgency to invest, still feeling a bit burned by HoT.. so, gonna let this one simmer for a bit.

Thank you to the people that took the time to give me insight and answers.

Vayne.8563:

DoctorDing.5890:

Rhanoa.3960:

It was a significant change

Bingo.

Games without significant changes often die faster than games with them The six guys that would still be playing core Tyria if is stayed at that difficulty would be happy as clams. Most of us would have played a lot less, because too easy is as bad as too hard. HoT kept me in the game. And I know for a fact I’m not alone.

This is not true at all. Case in point, EQ didn’t significantly change their game, they merely added to it. In essence, they added levels, which progressed the game, but did do while keeping with the established systems and style of play that the base game was built off of, there were no major system shocks, or massive overhauls on how the game felt from one expansion to the next, the transition from Norrath to Kunark, felt smooth, the Kunark Expansion felt like it belonged in the world of Norrath, making a fitting addition to the game.

Whereas, HoT was an abject change to how the game felt when you played, it didn’t feel like a smooth transition at all.

Ergo, games may need to grow, but they don’t in effect need to overhaul level changes to stay alive, in fact.. subtle small changes are what keep games alive, additions keep games alive.. substantial shocking changes have historically always done more harm then good.

Rhanoa.3960:

STIHL.2489:

Rhanoa.3960:

STIHL.2489:

Rhanoa.3960:

HOT didn’t fail, the Players DID!

A player is under no obligation to play or support game they don’t find fun. Leaving is always a viable and proper response to any game that not your liking.

When a company makes a game, the people that don’t find it fun either leave or stay around and whine that the game needs to change.

So lets get this clear, if players left the game.. then HoT failed to be fun to them.

Without doubt you’re not obligated. However, as a customer your experience overall is subjective as you and I do not experience it the same way. Do they both matter? Of course.

Though, claiming to represent the voices of all casual players is false and misleading.

Your problem is with HOT not being casual enough for you. My problem is which of the 9 Professions and Builds to use with so many available options.

Well, I never said ALL. There are always those the exceptions, but.. from what this topic has wrought, my views align with a substantial portion of the casual community. If you want to be some lone voice, by all means, go ahead, I won’t stop you, and I’ll gladly not speak up for you.

Feel better?

We will all feel better when POF is out then you realize that this is as casual as the game gets for you. There are still a handful of MMOs for you to try maybe it will help you find what you are looking for.

Here are a list of games for you to check out.
Final Fantasy XI..
Elder Scrolls On..
Black Desert Onl..
Rift
AD2460
Warframe
Path of Exile
Darkfall: Unholy..
WildStar
SMITE
Neverwinter
TERA
Blade & Soul
EVE Online
Elite: Dangerous
EverQuest II
Lord of the Ring..
Guild Wars
Final Fantasy XI
Dark Age of Came..
Guild Wars Facti..
Ryzom
Perpetuum
Aika
Atlantica Online
Destiny
Fallen Earth
PlanetSide 2
Guild Wars Night..
Dungeons & Drago..
Ultima Online
EverQuest
Lineage 2
Wizard101

That read like a copy past from some list off MMORPG.com, but really, You list a bomb like Wildstar and archaic games like Everquest, but fail to mention some nifty gems like Archeage and BlackGold?

I would hope that If you’re going to suggest a game, you have at least some vested knowledge of them, (Which I am going to doubt is true with this list of yours), but, with that put out, I have one for you. See I have been playing other MMO’s for the last year, so.. Give this one a whirl, it might be more your liking if you can’t settle well on one character.

Trove.

I read the whole thing and it was not bad till you hit this little puppy.

Anchoku.8142:

Will you lose your static? Yes.

and suddenly.. NOPE!

Now, I love to pug, to me the PUG is one of the great parts of an MMO.

But no way could I support removing anyone’s ability to group with friends/family.

Sorry.

TheShniper.1852:

Yeah you can make the argument that i should play with a static. Which i do usually.

I think you need to up that “usually” to “always” and just leave it at that.

Rhanoa.3960:

STIHL.2489:

Rhanoa.3960:

HOT didn’t fail, the Players DID!

A player is under no obligation to play or support game they don’t find fun. Leaving is always a viable and proper response to any game that not your liking.

When a company makes a game, the people that don’t find it fun either leave or stay around and whine that the game needs to change.

So lets get this clear, if players left the game.. then HoT failed to be fun to them.

Without doubt you’re not obligated. However, as a customer your experience overall is subjective as you and I do not experience it the same way. Do they both matter? Of course.

Though, claiming to represent the voices of all casual players is false and misleading.

Your problem is with HOT not being casual enough for you. My problem is which of the 9 Professions and Builds to use with so many available options.

Well, I never said ALL. There are always those the exceptions, but.. from what this topic has wrought, my views align with a substantial portion of the casual community. If you want to be some lone voice, by all means, go ahead, I won’t stop you, and I’ll gladly not speak up for you.

Feel better?

Rhanoa.3960:

Been playing on and off since Beta 2012!
When the game use to be hard, but folks like you ruined it. Rather than figuring it and exploring you all needed to be directed where to go or how to do things. Then complaining it was too hard.

Well I didn’t start till 2014 and only actually played for 2 years. Looks like being directed worked out pretty good for me.

Rhanoa.3960:

HOT didn’t fail, the Players DID!

A player is under no obligation to play or support game they don’t find fun. Leaving is always a viable and proper response to any game that not your liking.

When a company makes a game, the people that don’t find it fun either leave or stay around and whine that the game needs to change.

So lets get this clear, if players left the game.. then HoT failed to be fun to them.

TwiceDead.1963:

You’re also saying you won’t be playing unless Anet caters to you,

Why would I play a game I don’t find fun?

I mean, not to be rude, but many of the things you are saying, are so nonsensical, it’s comical at this point.

Rhanoa.3960:

STIHL.2489:

mbhalo.1547:

STIHL.2489:

But, if you really had not idea of the many thing that were done that made HoT unfriendly towards casual players, so much so that you needed to ask this question, I am going to wager that you are nowhere near close to being a casual player yourself, so, no offence to you in any way, but it would be impossible for you to gauge if PoE was in fact casual friendly or not, thus you really could not answer my question.

I consider myself a casual player – 4000 hours played, 16k AP, 5 legendary weapons + legendary backpack, do T4 fractals almost every day and here and there dabble into raiding.

With that resume.. you are very much alone in thinking you are a casual player.

The same can be said about you.

You’re Parked at around 9k AP
I am sitting around 6k AP.
Does this make me more than a casual player than you?

However, from one casual player to another I am and I continue to enjoy GW2 despite your so called casual player respresentation.

Going to bet my WvW rank is higher then yours as well, but, I could have been playing longer then you, I have no idea. When did you start?

Well I finally got to play a bit.

As always, of the little bit of art and environment I saw, it was top notch stuff, GW2 has always rocked their aesthetics and PoF was not an exception to this.

Sadly I was lagged horribly, and.. did no get to do much.

Maybe tomorrow it will clear up and I’ll get a better chance to try things out.

AliamRationem.5172:

Oh, you only wanted to hear from people who hated HoT? Why didn’t you say so? I’ll just see my way out of it then.

I made it pretty clear what I was looking for in the OP, in case you missed this.

STIHL.2489:

Well, it’s been a while since I posted, or played for that matter, I hope things have been going well for all of you , that populations are tip top, pugs for dungeons and meta events are plentiful, and that WvW and sPvP are brimming with players. I know most people would dream that a game would collapse behind them when they left, but, I had no such dream, in fact, I hoped things would go well enough to justify a whole new expansion, and it seems it has. So. ta da.. I’m back to check it out .

Now, I left because I was unhappy with the HoT expansion and as opposed to playing a game past its’ point of fun, I simply took my own advice and moved on to other games.

HoT made it clear that Anet was moving away from it’s casual base to cater to other gamer demographics, which is fine, it’s their game, and they have every right to do whatever they want with it, my only option is play or not play , so I opted out, but, I am piqued about PoF, however before I download the game, I am wondering if PoF is more like the Core game, or is it more like HoT.

But thanks for posting. Enjoy the other topics!

Sykper.6583:

STIHL.2489:

LOL, Did I ever claim to own the game or the term casual?

At the very least you seem to want to own the word ‘casual’ since you’ve mentioned:

To everyone that asked or called me on using the line “Real casual”

The above is why I do it.. too many posers come in to topics like this, and try to pretend to be something they are not.

Care to enlighten us what you think ‘casual’ means?

No, I’ll let someone else do that. if you don’t like what they have to say, take it up with them.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Perhaps because there is a specific definition of the word casual as it is used in video games which states that either skill, time commitment or both are defining factors.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/casual

Words evolve. We either adapt and use them as they are being used in specific contexts or we don’t. Stick with your definition if you like, but you will continue to be misunderstood by some posters and some of the information you get will be unhelpful as a result.

babazhook.6805:

The thing about these people that would kick others for not having the dictated DPS spec, is they will be the first to complain about a “dying game mode” when they can not find players enough to do fractals.

Gotta love this kind of painful yet ironic truth.

mbhalo.1547:

STIHL.2489:

The above is why I do it.. too many posers come in to topics like this, and try to pretend to be something they are not.

Now you’re being toxic elitist just the other way around.

At first I was going to disagree with you, but you know what, Fair enough. far be it from me to turn people away, so, lets open that box shall we.

Lets accept this as “Casual”

mbhalo.1547:

I consider myself a casual player – 4000 hours played, 16k AP, 5 legendary weapons + legendary backpack, do T4 fractals almost every day and here and there dabble into raiding.

Now the longest a player can be playing is 5 years, so lets set this as a benchmark.

1 legendary weapon for every year played.

Average 800 Hours a Year Played, or roughly a little over 2 hours a day, every single day.

16K AP.

and a legendary backpack.

Seems excessive to me.. but.. others chimed in, to defend this as a typical Casual achievement.

AliamRationem.5172:

15 hours per week is pretty casual, honestly. That translates into a couple of hours per day…less than most people spend watching TV or BS’ing on the internet daily.

TCFactory.1473:

Seconding this. Casual means a lot of things to a lot of people.

You can be casual if you only play a couple of hours a week (and 15 hours a week easily translates into like, only doing the dailies and the occasional afternoon during the weekend).

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

There are all sorts of people who have that sort of resume and consider themselves to be casual.

Ok.. soo lets roll with that is the bse line of a casual, after all, it’s been made clear, that should be pretty easy to do by more then one person.

And what was said about casuals?

Oh right..

Casuals ruin games.

So.. well.. yah.. 5 legendary weapons, legendary back item, 16K AP , should be stupid easy that any casual can do it .. so.. how many of you have done better?

Just gonna wait now for the show of hands.

AliamRationem.5172:

The point being that speaking for casual players does not validate any of your points, because the fact is casuals are not a uniform group that play the way you do and share your views on the game.

If you followed the topic, you would see that it’s pretty clear that I do speak for the real casuals, not the wannabes’ that try to pass off as ones, so they can say “l2p” and think anyone will actually listen to them.

To everyone that asked or called me on using the line “Real casual”

The above is why I do it.. too many posers come in to topics like this, and try to pretend to be something they are not.

Flatley.1620:

mbhalo.1547:

Djinn.9245:

I’m honestly curious: why do you list all those things and call yourself “casual”? I mean what version of “casual” allows you to accomplish all that and still think you are “casual”?

Because i don’t tryhard and farm, i play on my own laid-back pace.

I wish I could accomplish all that by not trying hard :/

Don’t mind people like them man, I mean think about it, 4000 hours translates to 15 hours a week ,every singe week, without fail, for the last 5 years straight, and that’s just played time, that would not include all the time they spent reading guides, meta build designing, on top of watching vids, and learning how to play.

You can’t take people like that seriously, I mean they even said “it’s a l2p issue” you don’t get any more elitist then that.

Palador.2170:

STIHL.2489:

Abraxxus.8971:

The devs of City of Heroes did this twice. They sent out emails to all players a couple weeks before hand saying that all characters on accounts that had not logged in in over a certain amount of time (I believe it was something like accounts that were inactive over 2 years) would have their character names up for grabs. This way, if a player wanted to keep their names, they could log in in the weeks before the “names release” happened.

City of Hero’s.. the mmo that was shut down? Hummmm not a good example of something to copy….

Actually, it’s a very good example of something to copy.

Why? Because they said that the effort and problems were not worth it in the end. The amount of names freed up was relatively small, and made very little impact. They never did it again after that. And CoH was, at the time, a monthly sub game. If it proved to not be worth it for CoH, then it really won’t be worth it for GW2. So, copy their hard earned wisdom.

I think what you mean is something to use as a cautionary tale.. not something to copy.

mbhalo.1547:

STIHL.2489:

But, if you really had not idea of the many thing that were done that made HoT unfriendly towards casual players, so much so that you needed to ask this question, I am going to wager that you are nowhere near close to being a casual player yourself, so, no offence to you in any way, but it would be impossible for you to gauge if PoE was in fact casual friendly or not, thus you really could not answer my question.

I consider myself a casual player – 4000 hours played, 16k AP, 5 legendary weapons + legendary backpack, do T4 fractals almost every day and here and there dabble into raiding.

With that resume.. you are very much alone in thinking you are a casual player.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Good luck on the Devs considering your suggestions, whatever they may be.

I didn’t make any suggestions.

yah.. well.. this is awkward.

Mastermavrick.2439:

Another thread i’ve been following that i feel is troll and decided to comment on….

This game is pretty kitten causal, here is the problem CORE tyria does not teach its players how to do anything besides auto attack and maybe cast heal for the majority of the content. With HoT and a few other parts of the game it expects and hopes that you learned to do more then that. IE learned the really big and basic tells for stuns/aoe damaging moves and dodging.

Ok, well lets go with this. As you say, CORE Tyria is totally a face roll, Literally, poorly geared, even badly geared unskilled, players can log in and just enjoy it.

OK, well, it stands to reason, if the game was stupid hard walking in, that would have been an indication as to what demographic that company was looking to attract. Equally so, it boringly easy with a focus on fashion not lateral gear progression, that also should been this massive indication as to who the game is designed for.

So, at this little crossroads, which one of us is really in the person that didn’t get the clue, the one that came to the CORE game, that was painfully easy, a casuals paradise, and cried and whined that the game needed to be made harder to suit their needs, or, the player that simply wanted more of the same that they had already been enjoying?

With what you believe is a “casual” game is what i feel others would considering a “walking-simulator” game as they have NO/little challenge (think Firewatch/Stanly Parable). There are also games like Skyrim/Mass Effect/Witcher/Fallout in which you can set the difficulty/abuse hacks/console to overpower any/all content while living/enjoy a impressive world which seems to be what you want. Look for these games not and MMORPGS.

Ah, the recourse, to go play something else, well, the real question is, why don’t you follow your own advice, and as opposed to fussing at the devs to make what at its’ CORE was a very casual game harder, why didn’t you move on to a harder game, there is no shortage of them out there.

You want stories not a game/challenge don’t try to dumb down a game because you it does not fit what you want.

As you so clearly put, this game was “dumbed down” to start with, which is why us Filthy Casuals came here, the question is, why are you and your ilk here, if you didn’t like the CORE game, and wanted more of the same of it?

Before you ask me to leave to for asking for the game to be changed to suit my flavor, maybe you should have done what you ask others to do, and left before asking for the game to clanged to suit yours .

Or are you that kind of person that dispenses advice that you would never be willing to follow, because you know how bad and insulting it really is.