Guild Wars 2

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s a build that allows you to be effective with little to no effort.

This ^

ronpierce.2760:

Cheese builds are builds that you can play fairly safely and win in most cases, often with an easy means of escape. The context of a cheese build changes depending on the situation but is most commonly used for builds that are too strong in small scale fights. Condition mesmer is a prime example of this.

Yah, I have to agree with you on this as well, the Power (pew pew two two) Rangers were another stellar example of this.

Thing I have noticed is that they are often built around capitalizing upon some unbalanced game mechanic and thus end up being one-trick-pony’s.

Quarktastic.1027:

STIHL.2489:

Quarktastic.1027:

gothmog.7501:

Sprocket pick is only current sources of sprockets aside the home node (for those of us that have one)

If they nerf the pick price will soar.

Don’t think there’s any chance of this, fortunately – because we paid real money (gems) for that pick (IE potential breach of contract) and they need a source of sprockets. Could always change the drop rate if there are too many about – won’t matter to farmers as price will rise, we still get paid.

I like the idea of adding the sprocket chance to a utility infusion, as someone suggested in another thread. Then send everyone who currently owns a watchwork pick one of these infusions for free.

I really like the concept of utility infusions, and wish Anet would do more with them.

I kinda like this idea.. sorta. I mean, if they put in a “Sprocket” infusion, everyone would ask for some other Infusion to be made as well, and then you have “Sprocket” and “Candy Corn” and “Crystal” and then, they would want the infusion to work on Wood and Harvesting nodes, since it’s an infusion, it should, and after a bit, you have people that hit something with a pick and get 10 items.. none of them ore…

While that would be funny, I am not sure if that would be such a good idea overall.

Well, since amulets are the only items with utility infusion slots, you’d only be able to equip one utility infusion at a time, so I think it would be fine.

That means you would be forced to equip only amulets that had a utility infusion, to be able to use that ability…. In a cute kinda way that would be funny, it would also generate some serious salt mind you.

Quarktastic.1027:

gothmog.7501:

Sprocket pick is only current sources of sprockets aside the home node (for those of us that have one)

If they nerf the pick price will soar.

Don’t think there’s any chance of this, fortunately – because we paid real money (gems) for that pick (IE potential breach of contract) and they need a source of sprockets. Could always change the drop rate if there are too many about – won’t matter to farmers as price will rise, we still get paid.

I like the idea of adding the sprocket chance to a utility infusion, as someone suggested in another thread. Then send everyone who currently owns a watchwork pick one of these infusions for free.

I really like the concept of utility infusions, and wish Anet would do more with them.

I kinda like this idea.. sorta. I mean, if they put in a “Sprocket” infusion, everyone would ask for some other Infusion to be made as well, and then you have “Sprocket” and “Candy Corn” and “Crystal” and then, they would want the infusion to work on Wood and Harvesting nodes, since it’s an infusion, it should, and after a bit, you have people that hit something with a pick and get 10 items.. none of them ore…

While that would be funny, I am not sure if that would be such a good idea overall.

Now sure what boat anyone else is in, but, I’ll be the first to admit to this that when I heard about HoT, I bought the biggest bundle, all the gems, and all that, got the whole kit, on top of that, pre-ordered it as soon as I was able (had to wait for the pay check, or I would have bought it sooner) that was how much I trusted them to put out a great expansion.

Ok, I know you’re all expecting a “But” in there, however, I’ll have to admit, the expansion was very well made, I was not let down by their efforts, I could see the detail, the planning, the massive amount of work and time they must have invested into it, so, I have nothing but mad props for them for their creation.. but … I simply didn’t like it.

Now, you might think that is contradictory, but it’s not at all. You can admire the quality and effort of something, without liking it, for example, it’s very easy to appreciate the rich creamy texture of a scoop of top quality vanilla ice cream, even if you really don’t like vanilla ice cream.

Same way with HoT for me. I could see that it was a great expansion, for the people that would enjoy it, but, it simply was not appealing to me, so, unfortunately, while I still trust the quality of the brand, I am now going to be far more reserved before I buy any content, to make sure that it is something I would enjoy. If it is, or seems like it would be, then I still have no issue investing the money for it, it’s just now… I wanna see it first.

How that pans out for their sales, I have no idea. I mean, they can still very easy, get my money. Just.. not sight unseen anymore.

BrotherBelial.3094:

STIHL.2489:

BrotherBelial.3094:

STIHL.2489:

penelopehannibal.8947:

STIHL.2489:

penelopehannibal.8947:

STIHL.2489:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Everyone needs some build to win. What makes one build cheese and another one not?

I believe the OP outlined that, where they explained that these conditions had dual effects, which is what made them Cheesy in comparison to other Conditions.

I’m not asking the OP, I’m asking you what makes a build ‘cheese’ since it was you who said it!

If having more than one effect on a condition means it should be nerfed, then they should nerf might as well, because it increases both power and condition damage. Let it only increase condition damage. Would you like that?

With a name like “Might” it would make more sense thematically if it only affected power, with that put out, If you’re not dealing with what the OP said, then you’re just derailing the discussion.

Eh? Derailing the discussion? How? I was responding to a comment you said originally. You responded to BrotherBelial and not the OP, so does that mean you’re derailing the conversation too?

But if you’re not going to answer, then whatever. To me it just sounds like you’re saying “Build that works for me is a good build. Build that works for them is a cheese build” by responding in your way to BrotherBelial originally, and by not answering me questioning your reply to BrotherBelial. /shrug.

Ok, let’s recap, because honestly, I don’t understand where you got lost. This entire discussion is about two Conditions, Torment and Confusion ergo, it should have be painfully clear that any mention of cheese in this discussion, would be directed at those the two conditions confusion and torment and how they are utilized. So to make this clear, and say it for the sake of having said it, because it was outright demanded by you, that I say this, any discussion of builds in this topic, would mean builds that depend on the use of confusion and torment.

I do not understand why the confusion in your part in regards to this, or why you demanded from me to say that, but, just to provide it you again, so that there is no question in the future, in case you are wondering if this entire topic is about the conditions confusion and torment allow me this moment to hold your hand and say “this entire topic is about Confusion and Torment”

Now, I am not sure how we have come to this, or why your post is so confrontational, or why you feel the need to endlessly demand that I say on a topic about confusion and torment that any mention of builds, would be exclusive to builds that use or depend on confusion and torment. I would have thought, that it would have been self evident, but it seems I am wrong on that one.

At this point, I am not even sure why or how we ever got to this point, or what you hoped to accomplish by your demand, but, I have to ask… and no offence intended, but what answer did you expect on a discussion about confusion and torment? Quaggen Hats?

So A warrior has a cheese build if he uses torment and confusion. Thank for letting me know, seeing as the only way I can get confusion with my build is if I interrupt a skill, as for torment, my build of sword Torch and mace shield do not have access to it. seeing as I play warrior, and I survive 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 1 fight quite often, against mesmers and the like, they are fine. it’s a L2P issue and people need to get on with it.

Yup, total cheese, in case you were wondering, with that put out, if you have any confusions about if this topic is about confusion and torment, feel free to not torment me with them.

Lol, ok then I see you have no idea what your talking about. So you have no problem with being hit with any other condition, other than Confusion and/or torment. And anyone who uses them is using a cheese build.

You heard it here first folks, if we follow this guys thinking if a rev uses any weapon skill that inflicts torment he’s a cheeser, if a warrior have confusion traited and interrupts a skill, he is a cheeser.

As far as I can see, your inability to play is the problem. If you can’t learn when to use your damage mitigation skills to survive. Try a different class. The one you are playing is not working for you.

You insults and snide attitude aside, I have to ask, did you miss that this topic is about confusion and torment? I ask this, because you seem to be really be struggling with this concept that this topic is about solely about confusion and torment being cheap conditions and in need of adjustment … nothing else.

Now, I don’t know if you understand this either, but, If you are trying to change the direction of this discussion to be about anything else, that is directly against the forum policy.

Now, the problem here is not my ability to play, it seems to be your ability to stay on topic. You should work on that.

BrotherBelial.3094:

STIHL.2489:

penelopehannibal.8947:

STIHL.2489:

penelopehannibal.8947:

STIHL.2489:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Everyone needs some build to win. What makes one build cheese and another one not?

I believe the OP outlined that, where they explained that these conditions had dual effects, which is what made them Cheesy in comparison to other Conditions.

I’m not asking the OP, I’m asking you what makes a build ‘cheese’ since it was you who said it!

If having more than one effect on a condition means it should be nerfed, then they should nerf might as well, because it increases both power and condition damage. Let it only increase condition damage. Would you like that?

With a name like “Might” it would make more sense thematically if it only affected power, with that put out, If you’re not dealing with what the OP said, then you’re just derailing the discussion.

Eh? Derailing the discussion? How? I was responding to a comment you said originally. You responded to BrotherBelial and not the OP, so does that mean you’re derailing the conversation too?

But if you’re not going to answer, then whatever. To me it just sounds like you’re saying “Build that works for me is a good build. Build that works for them is a cheese build” by responding in your way to BrotherBelial originally, and by not answering me questioning your reply to BrotherBelial. /shrug.

Ok, let’s recap, because honestly, I don’t understand where you got lost. This entire discussion is about two Conditions, Torment and Confusion ergo, it should have be painfully clear that any mention of cheese in this discussion, would be directed at those the two conditions confusion and torment and how they are utilized. So to make this clear, and say it for the sake of having said it, because it was outright demanded by you, that I say this, any discussion of builds in this topic, would mean builds that depend on the use of confusion and torment.

I do not understand why the confusion in your part in regards to this, or why you demanded from me to say that, but, just to provide it you again, so that there is no question in the future, in case you are wondering if this entire topic is about the conditions confusion and torment allow me this moment to hold your hand and say “this entire topic is about Confusion and Torment”

Now, I am not sure how we have come to this, or why your post is so confrontational, or why you feel the need to endlessly demand that I say on a topic about confusion and torment that any mention of builds, would be exclusive to builds that use or depend on confusion and torment. I would have thought, that it would have been self evident, but it seems I am wrong on that one.

At this point, I am not even sure why or how we ever got to this point, or what you hoped to accomplish by your demand, but, I have to ask… and no offence intended, but what answer did you expect on a discussion about confusion and torment? Quaggen Hats?

So A warrior has a cheese build if he uses torment and confusion. Thank for letting me know, seeing as the only way I can get confusion with my build is if I interrupt a skill, as for torment, my build of sword Torch and mace shield do not have access to it. seeing as I play warrior, and I survive 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 1 fight quite often, against mesmers and the like, they are fine. it’s a L2P issue and people need to get on with it.

Yup, total cheese, in case you were wondering, with that put out, if you have any confusions about if this topic is about confusion and torment, feel free to not torment me with them.

I dunno about anyone else, but I am more concerned about what “lesson” was learned, I mean there are all kinds of things players hated and loved about HoT, but as far as I could tell, there nothing really universal (beyond say the Character Slot) where if you looked at community reactions, you could point a finger at and say “That was our mistake”.

Everything was met with some group loving or hating it, it all depended on who you asked.

BrotherBelial.3094:

STIHL.2489:

BrotherBelial.3094:

STIHL.2489:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ah, yes. I can see what’s happening here. “I keep getting beaten by people running condition builds. Yes it must be the torment and confusion killing me.”

This is a L2P issue. I play warrior mostly, I have 4 of them. So if I can beat condition builds, and I’m not that good, anyone can, with some practice.

I don’t think that is what they are saying anymore then what you’re saying is “Please don’t nerf my builds, I need this cheese to win”

Ok then. I’ll bet money you run meta builds as soon as they hit Meta Battle or what ever site people get there builds from.

I could use some money, how much would you like to lose on that bet?

One mans cheese is another mans wine.

Thank you for admitting you need it, honesty is a rare find.

penelopehannibal.8947:

STIHL.2489:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ah, yes. I can see what’s happening here. “I keep getting beaten by people running condition builds. Yes it must be the torment and confusion killing me.”

This is a L2P issue. I play warrior mostly, I have 4 of them. So if I can beat condition builds, and I’m not that good, anyone can, with some practice.

I don’t think that is what they are saying anymore then what you’re saying is “Please don’t nerf my builds, I need this cheese to win”

Everyone needs some build to win. What makes one build cheese and another one not?

I believe the OP outlined that, where they explained that these conditions had dual effects, which is what made them Cheesy in comparison to other Conditions.

What? Where did I say I needed it? You read things completely wrong. But then you seem to think anyone using conditions need them to win. What do you use harsh language? But then all you seem to be doing is complaining that your getting beatten by people who use conditions. I smell L2P.

What? Where did I say any of that… Well pots and kettles as it were.

Nope, never gonna happen, unless the game put it upfront they will delete accounts after a set time of inactivity, a name purge will never happen especially for B2P games, where you paid for the right to create your own personal character, name included.

I would say, just get better at names. I have never once had an issue with naming my characters.

Aidan Savage.2078:

DeceiverX.8361:

Really, it’s just perplexity runes that are the biggest offender (passive proc 3 stacks from being hit, passive CC reflection/CC, AoE CC and CC overload from elite specs makes it VERY easy to stack huge confusion just from runes). Get rid of those runes and most of the issues vanish. Get rid of these and dire gear together and all WvW-related condition issues for the most part vanish, too.

4 piece effect has a 25 second cooldown with a 25% chance of 3 stacks for 5 seconds. Full set is 5 stacks for 8 seconds with a 15 second cooldown. Cooldowns exist in wvw too. So…. Yea, get good.

Those runes apply 30% Confusion Duration, so that’s 5 stacks for 10.4 Seconds, with a 15 second cool down, at the full set, and 3 stacks 6.5 Seconds on the 4 runes with a 25 second cool down. Since they can dual pulse as well, which means you can get tagged for 5 stacks of 10.5 seconds of Confusion, then another 4 stacks of 6.5 seconds of Confusion, which can give you 16.9 seconds of Confusion, and then get tagged for another 5 stacks of Confusion, while still under the 4 Stacks, for 9 stacks of Confusion, for roughly 2.9 seconds, and that is above and beyond any other effects that the player is using on you.

In short, So for next 30 seconds of a fight, you can maintain no less then 3 stacks of confusion you, and go as high as 8 stacks, just from the runes alone.

It’s a cheesy crutch for the players that need them… which is always the people that defend them.

Quarktastic.1027:

Unfortunately the watchwork mining pick is still too valuable to justify the purchase of any other unlimited mining tool. Based on the drop rate and current market value of sprockets, the watchwork pick is worth an extra 67 copper per swing on average.

So I won’t be buying any more mining tools unless anet either nerfs the watchwork pick, or extends the functionality to all unlimited mining tools.

I would love for Anet to extend the functionality of the other Unlimited Tools.

I have full sets of the Molten, Flutes, Mad Scientist, R-Tron, as well as a few odds and ends (Jack-in-the-Box Scythe, Dreamcleaver Logging Axe) , and 3 Watchwork picks on top of that.

Always felt that the Unlimited should give a little something more then a standard, not game breaking or anything, but, just something a bit more, and themed to what they are.

For Example:
Tireless Minions could drop Mad King related stuff.

• Pick has a Chance to reward Cheap Plastic Fangs
• Harvester has a Chance to reward a Chattering Skull
• Logging Axe has a chance to reward a Nougat Center

R-Tron Items Drop things Related to Wintersday IE:

• Pick has a chance to reward “Ugly Wool Hat”
• Scythe has a chance to reward “Ugly Wool Sweater”
• Axe has a chance to reward “Ugly Wool Socks”

None of this would be game breaking to put in either.

I am sure the other picks and items could be themed as well, or maybe even add in some new junk to from some of them to collect to make something else we might want, or have them drop Dungeon Tokens, or something else equally plentiful.

IE:

Molten harvesting set.

• Pick – has a chance for Citadel of Flame token.
• Scythe – has a Chance for either CoF or SE token (Random 50% of either)
• Axe – has a chance for Sorrow’s Embrace token

I mean, think about it, it takes a while to collect anything through the picks so, it’s not like a chance at a single dungeon token, is going to break the game. You can’t even sell them, so, it’s not like it will disrupt the economy either.

I mean, this is just an idea, but, I would love to see something along these lines bring put in, just so that these items game a little something more but not too much to make them needed.

BrotherBelial.3094:

STIHL.2489:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ah, yes. I can see what’s happening here. “I keep getting beaten by people running condition builds. Yes it must be the torment and confusion killing me.”

This is a L2P issue. I play warrior mostly, I have 4 of them. So if I can beat condition builds, and I’m not that good, anyone can, with some practice.

I don’t think that is what they are saying anymore then what you’re saying is “Please don’t nerf my builds, I need this cheese to win”

Ok then. I’ll bet money you run meta builds as soon as they hit Meta Battle or what ever site people get there builds from.

I could use some money, how much would you like to lose on that bet?

One mans cheese is another mans wine.

Thank you for admitting you need it, honesty is a rare find.

penelopehannibal.8947:

STIHL.2489:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ah, yes. I can see what’s happening here. “I keep getting beaten by people running condition builds. Yes it must be the torment and confusion killing me.”

This is a L2P issue. I play warrior mostly, I have 4 of them. So if I can beat condition builds, and I’m not that good, anyone can, with some practice.

I don’t think that is what they are saying anymore then what you’re saying is “Please don’t nerf my builds, I need this cheese to win”

Everyone needs some build to win. What makes one build cheese and another one not?

I believe the OP outlined that, where they explained that these conditions had dual effects, which is what made them Cheesy in comparison to other Conditions.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ah, yes. I can see what’s happening here. “I keep getting beaten by people running condition builds. Yes it must be the torment and confusion killing me.”

This is a L2P issue. I play warrior mostly, I have 4 of them. So if I can beat condition builds, and I’m not that good, anyone can, with some practice.

I don’t think that is what they are saying anymore then what you’re saying is “Please don’t nerf my builds, I need this cheese to win”

WvW. Everything else is done to fund WvW.

I would like to see

Largos, would be great, they could make a whole expansion called the “Endless Ocean” and have several fully underwater zones. Largos would need to have dual fractions, those that shunned even hated the outsiders, and those that welcomed them. This would require some work, but I think it would be great way to really put Underwater Combat back into the game in a real sense.

Dwarf, this would need to be added as a playable race with some kind of Primordus expansion, where the players venture deep into the earth, however Dwarf would need to be an unlocked Race, not simply a race you could play, but, if you did a series of achievements, you could make a single dwarven character, and zero personal story, as they would joining the game as part of the pact, after all the LS series and after the players PS was complete, they are joining on behalf of a Pact Commander who slew Zhaitan, (So completing your PS at least on one character would be a required Achievement)

GreenRipper.6432:

In many situations the bad players who are about to die are closing the game to prevent the sum of his death in scoring.

Yesterday at a time of battle of my half of the zerg server has logged enemy simply when he realized that suffering would wipe.

I suggest that to establish a system of punishment or dishonor to these players, besides the score is added to the score. I believe that every player who logs out in combat should count points for the enemy team that hit.

I thought this was already the case, that they drop loot and provide points for PPK, as well as Wxp.

If not, then, you’re right, they should. If they leave combat for any reason, be it crash, que, whatever, they should count as defeated, and provide all rewards to the opposing team and players.

You combine those infusions, and make a larger Agony Resist item.

There are 2 kinds of Agony Resist.

Simple and Complied.

Simple Resist Items are in Every Ascended Item and Designated as “Defensive, Offensive, Utility” They come in +3, +5 and +7, As well as +5 and + (Stat).

You can Buy Simple Infusions, from the Vendor in the Fractals, Laurel Vendor, and WvW Vendor.

Complied Agony is Designed as “Agony Infusion Slot” This is only available for Rings (Infused/Attuned), and Back Item (infused).

Artificer Trade Skill is what Complies Agony Infusions. You can start Combining at 0 ranks and It works pretty simple.
You combine a +1 and a +1 with a Regent, and you get a +2.
You combine a +2 and a +2 with a Regent, and you get a +3.
On up that way for as high as you with to go.
Typically the highest you would ever need to go is +11.

You can buy Regents from the Artificer Vendor at 10 for 14 silver.

Hope that helps, if you have any other questions, let me know.

NikeEU.7690:

If PvE isn’t fun to you anymore, stop playing it. And stop getting into arguments on forums about things you don’t enjoy.

I can’t make you do these things, ofcourse, but since you’re very high on your 17 years of life experience I thought I would add some helpful life advice from my experience. You’ll be happier in the long run if you limit your interaction with upsetting things.

Great advice, so why are you here arguing with me? Do you enjoy it?

Vinceman.4572:

You were the one talking bad about raids in GW2 and a toxic environment especially in this community while it’s not debatable that certain communities behaved like this in every online game so far. You had no point here and with your explanation of being a raider in other game your presence here with those written words is just….I don’t know, ridiculous or absurd could be the right words.

What… amazed that one time I said the same things you have, (maybe a whole lot worse) at a different time on a different forum?

Why does that sound absurd to you? Ever stop and think, that maybe, over the course of the last 17 some odd years of seeing months and years of spending time to master the difficult content turn to vapor the second I opted to move on to something else, that maybe, after I have been playing MMO’s long enough, that I learned how futile your stand really is, because I have been there?

I said it on the other topic you made about this same subject matter so I’ll say it again here.

If you want the features, just go buy it.

If people who play WvW can find the funds, anyone can.

Vinceman.4572:

STIHL.2489:

How well you do on the Boss, that would remain to be seen however. I remember solo kiting the Boss though Molten Traps while my friend was on the levers all the while the rest of the group took turns rezzing each other, and while it was tedious, it was also a testament to perseverance and skill, as well as a full group is people unwilling to quit, they died by the buckets, but just got back up and keep going at it. It was inspiring, made me and my friend feel great that we could pull that off too. I think they realized they needed some improvement after that, but we still won the fight and walked away with our daily.

To me, that is what the game is about. Those fights that you talk about for years after. Those pulling out the victory from the jaws of defeat. Long after you stopped playing, you sill joke with your friends about some of the most harrowing encounters where it came down to just you (or your friend as the case may be) to be the hero and save the moment.

It’s a game, at some point we will stop playing it, and the digital baubles will be worthless, but those moments, that thrill, that chance to really shine and be able to share that with the people right there with you… that is all the take away you will ever get.

If you get that from raids, kudos.

Well, it’s obvious that you have never taken a serious footstep into raiding. Yes, I do also remember those epic duos in fractals and dungeon with a friend or even soloing Lupicus when all other pugs died and it felt good and yeah, sometimes you felt a bit proud too.
But as a person that has never been in an MMO before and never seen any raid I can tell you that it was much more impressive to get VG down with 10 people some days after release. The atmosphere was thrilling and the feeling way more satisfying than anything else I’ve found out before and I will never forget that ever.

I have been raiding in MMO’s, since well, raids existed, I’ve seen them evolve from Mega World Bosses that only spawned once a week into what is an instance based ‘double group’ dungeon that was done on timed rotations. I’ve killed more Raid Bosses then I care to count, but, my first was Lady Vox. Never seem to forget that, after all these years.

None the less, There is a whole legion of worlds out there to experience and I’ve played my share of them.

Anyway, Glad you’re building memories.

Go build a million more of them, just try not to become toxic in the process. Learn to let other people have their fun, get their baubles as you collect whatever paltry shinies you can from this game and you’re next however many.

My GEB’s, RMB’s, and Cloak of Flames are vaporware today, even tho it took me months to get them. My Epic Sword of Shadows is now just a bit code in some other game, means nothing here. I can’t wave it around to you all, and say “Look at me and be impressed” none of you would be, so, I hate to say it, don’t expect any of us to be impressed by what you do in this game, or when the time comes, and you move on, no one is going to care if you dropped Sabatah or got a legendary back scratchier, anymore then you would care that I soloed Shroud on a Bard or that my pally was always wearing an Epic Torq.

Learn that the real value is in fun, the laughs, and the memories, the good times, the thrills and chills you build, not the items you get. Never worth it to become toxic over a game. There will be many other games, but only one you.

Not worth it to poison yourself over digital junk.

So ask yourself, what are you trying to prove here, what was your point to engage me? What did you hope to gain?

joneirikb.7506:

Personally I’d like to see a similar build system to PVP, but with a 2 or 3 split on the amulets, so we could get some different stat combos. But I’ve read enough threads about this to know that a lot of players hate the PVP builds very much, and love being able to tweak every last minor stat, and food etc.

I think another interesting idea is to actually change how builds work in the entire game (technically not in PVP), linking all the stats up to the trinkets only. Let weapon only give damage and sigil, and armor only give armor + runes. So you could change the stats entirely by just changing trinkets. (And preferably also have a selectable option for sigils and runes on weapons/armors as well, somehow).

It would give us a similar function without invalidating most gear, and not having to mess with skins/runes/sigils so much when changing builds around.

Sits down with popcorn and swat-riot-armor

Great idea.. for GW3

fishball.7204:

I’m not sure what your point is. One skilled player isn’t enough to carry the molten drill thing. You need the 2 people on the plates to not be terrible and dying or if they’re smart give aegis to the door opener then hop off but I’ve never seen pugs do this.

This is probably the worst example of everybody is engaged but anyone can shine. What is there to shine? If the other 4 suck and die there’s nothing you can do solo but respawn and redo the whole thing.

Great question.

You can’t solo it, that is true, and you have 4 deads, lets be honest, unless you were running an upper pad and not in the room when they all opted to suicide charge, you could have done more to save them, and instead opted to just watch them die.

But moving on, Lets say you have 3 bads in the group, you give them the job to stand on the plates and get the door, (Pretty simple, just stand there) while you pull the agro and dance the mobs around, the 4 person opens the upper pad so you can be with the lower group to keep them alive, assuming the 4th person is not a bad, they could come down and help you mitigate agro, if they are bad, they can die at the upper pad.

Everyone was engaged in the encounter with a job to do, while your skill to manage the mobs and agro made the encounter clean and done. If you have never had to do that… then you need to Open Pug More, it will happen, kind fun when it does. because, after the encounter, you’re not going to get a trophy for it, truth is, depending on the skill of the group, they might not even know what you did, till they try to do it without you, LOL.

So yah, as simple as that encounter seems, everyone was engaged in doing a task, while someone with the right skills and abilities was able to shine and make the whole thing plausible.

How well you do on the Boss, that would remain to be seen however. I remember solo kiting the Boss though Molten Traps while my friend was on the levers all the while the rest of the group took turns rezzing each other, and while it was tedious, it was also a testament to perseverance and skill, as well as a full group is people unwilling to quit, they died by the buckets, but just got back up and keep going at it. It was inspiring, made me and my friend feel great that we could pull that off too. I think they realized they needed some improvement after that, but we still won the fight and walked away with our daily.

To me, that is what the game is about. Those fights that you talk about for years after. Those pulling out the victory from the jaws of defeat. Long after you stopped playing, you sill joke with your friends about some of the most harrowing encounters where it came down to just you (or your friend as the case may be) to be the hero and save the moment.

It’s a game, at some point we will stop playing it, and the digital baubles will be worthless, but those moments, that thrill, that chance to really shine and be able to share that with the people right there with you… that is all the take away you will ever get.

If you get that from raids, kudos.

In the end, you won’t get anything from trying to say you’re better then anyone, like some of the pro-raid groups here put out, or trying to tear another player down because they don’t like your favorite game mode. That’s just toxic.

I don’t care if someone does not like fractals, I enjoy them. If someone wants a legendary back item for doing something other then fractals, I say give it to them, make a back item for Jumping Puzzles, make another one liked to all the Dungeons. It only makes the game better when people are rewarded for doing what they find fun and enjoy.

When people get petty, belligerent, towards others, simple for disagreeing with them, or needing to feel that the only way they can feel special is if others are denied something, that poisons them, and that’s a horrible thing to let happen to yourself over a game.

Play for Fun, Do what you Love, Find Some Joy, and share it. Allow others to do the same, in the end, it’s a game, all you will get is the memories, is this forum fight something you want to remember 10 years from now?

Because.. you will.

IndigoSundown.5419:

STIHL.2489:

DrEckers.2039:

So you are saying its a good thing that one person can carry an entire group of bads?

Absolutely! Isn’t that the whole point of even bothering to playing a fantasy game to start with, to be the hero?

What other reason would someone have to continually improve their abilities and skills if they can’t directly augment the entire groups chance of success?

Think about it, If the entire groups chance of victory is contingent upon the ability of their worst player, not the best, there is no driving force to improve unless you are the worst player.

Ideally, the hardest group PvE content would demand a high level of play from all group members to succeed. I suspect the current raids don’t actually get to that level. However, I suspect they are at the level that most or all of the group must at least play competently.

A single character being the hero is the hallmark of single player RPG’s and heroic fantasy … well, I hesitate in most cases to call it literature. The GW2 story serves that purpose in GW2. MMO group content (and thus raids) is aimed, ultimately, at the demographic that came out of PnP RPG’s like Dungeons and Dragons. That stuff is aimed at groups, albeit that people can play with one player and a GM. In that game, a good GM will build the game around the capabilities of each of the characters. It’s rare that a single character will carry everyone else, though some amount of that happens in most groups I’ve seen.

This is also what a good raid would do. A hindering factor is that raids have typically been for larger groups. Ten, as in Gw2 raids, is about as small as I’ve seen. Designing encounters so that all ten shine in each one is difficult at best. The best I’ve seen is different encounters testing different capabilities.

I suspect in the future we might see game development evolve to the point where developers can produce content much more rapidly and that content will adapt to player actions. This might allow for the production of new stuff a lot more frequently, which might alleviate some of the repetition necessary in today’s genre. If the genre changed in those ways, we might see group content accessible to everyone, with systems linking players with different capabilities and adjusting the content to fit them, the way a good PnP GM will do. This would go a long way towards alleviating issues of exclusion.

I’m not sure I’ll live to see this, though.

Two points:

• a Raid, well any Dungeon or Instance based Content, should be Engaging to all players, not so much requiring them to be stand alone, or to all have equal roles, but to engage them into the encounter. Case in point, someone brought up the Drill Room in Molten Furnace, great example, 2 people stand on Pads, 1 Person Opens the Door, the other two Keep the Mobs busy.

It embraces the idea that Everyone is engaged in the Situation, but, anyone can shine as well. One highly skilled player can make that encounter pretty easy, one poorly skilled player won’t end it. That is a good encounter design to me, were everyone is engaged, but not everyone is needed, and success is not contingent upon the least skilled or any single player, but upon the overall skill of the group and it’s ability to handle the encounter.

As far as what you are asking for, one of the paths in CoF, there are 4 bubbles, and 1 Lock. All players matter in that mechanic, they all matter equally. Everyone needs to hold their own, or “shine” as you put it.

You got what you wanted, an encounter where everyone shines or makes a miserable example of themselves, and it was well within your life time.

• Since you mentioned D&D, Feel free to check out Dungeons and Dragons Online, and see how different that game is to this one.

Gudradain.3892:

I think that having observer could greatly improve the raid experience on many point.

What is a raid observer?

Someone that can watch the fights but is not there “physically”. The observers are not part of the 10 players doing the raid.

Why I think it could help?

1. It could be a way to quickly swap out players. If you have observers, when someone disconnect or have to go, you could simply replace the missing player by one of the observers without going through the LFG once more. The waiting time is what is really killing the raids and this might reduce it.

2. Give something to watch while your guild group is full.

3. Might help to teach/learn the fights

Thoughts?

So it would work like the sPvP Spectate option.

I like the idea, sorta.

I don’t think it should be a means to wait in a Raid Que, as that defeats the whole idea of opting to watch the raid to start with.

Also this would run the risk of people who were there to just watch and learn, being asked to leave, out of risk they may join the raid, or someone there to lead the raid, getting sucked into the raid itself.

So that aspect of it, not such a good idea.

With that put out, I think this would be a great way for players to learn raids without being thrown into the raid itself. That ability to just Observe, I think would be super handy for anyone who wanted to learn raids better, while they were prepping to get read to raid themselves.

It could also be used as a coordination tool, for someone, lets say, who has maxed their Raid Weekly Rewards, they could still “lead” the raid through a Voice Program, while allowing a full team of 10 people who may need to meet their raid stuff quota to engage in the encounter. They would be able to see more, direct more, and be more an overseer, as opposed to needing to lead the raid, and do the raid at the same time.

So overall, this is a great idea and could be a very handy tool on all accounts.

DrEckers.2039:

So you are saying its a good thing that one person can carry an entire group of bads?

Absolutely! Isn’t that the whole point of even bothering to playing a fantasy game to start with, to be the hero?

What other reason would someone have to continually improve their abilities and skills if they can’t directly augment the entire groups chance of success?

Think about it, If the entire groups chance of victory is contingent upon the ability of their worst player, not the best, there is no driving force to improve unless you are the worst player.

wolfie.7296:

It would be cool to be able to delevel to level 1.

This would not remove any skills or ablities etc or storylines or achievements, but instead locks them out…no skill points are lost they are simply gained automatically again. Or, they are kept and only the level 1 appears again.

There’s something about the idea of being level 1 and actually being level 1 that is very appealing. You would restart at the beginner stage.

What would be the point of doing this?

Torolan.5816:

Coconut.7082:

STIHL.2489:

The Zealous Templar.3861:

I mean to be fair you’ve made several sweeping statements about the raiding community and raids with very little experience.

How many times would you need to chew on razor blades, before you discovered you didn’t like it?

Hey guys, I decided to try fractals today, so I went into this fractal called Molten Furence. Me and my group couldn’t finish it because we couldn’t avoid dying in the trap room in the end, but I think this fractal is very easy and the Drill mechanic is too boring.
Thetefore I conclude that all fractals are so easy and boring, and I won’t be trying them again.
Also I think that the Ascended rewards should be removed from such easy content, they should only be given for actual hard content, like Tequatl.

Btw, organizing a Tequatl squad, req: 10+ Spoons and Sunless title.

So is accessibility and varying degrees of difficulty a crime now in games?
Should you get more than the other players? Yes.
Should you get unique rewards in any game mode? No.

Even when I see how this is all sarcasm, I would dare you to replace one of your party with someone who knows how to do this fractal. If you do not manage it then, you should probably ask for a disability discount at your local store. An experienced fractal player can carry a group of toons that are piloted by a chimpansee, a raven, a dolphin and a jojo tied around the mouse through a lvl 1 fractal.
I am pretty sure a single experienced raider can´t pull 9 people with him through raids with a reasonable chance of success.

When I started to do Tequatl, I did not even know which successes were there to get and most of them I got by accident. If I had kept them all together, I would own a shop named “Spoonatorium” right now. That title basically kept on hounding me.^^

See the difference? You can come and go as you please from fractals and Tequatl without sinking the ship that is the content. So of course people will be mad when they have to prepare for hours and some people don´t cut the standard in raids.

I think nobody really disputes that raids are harder and less accessible than fractals.
And yes, there are more than enough fractal snobs too.

This is a good point, and something I felt was also a faulting on the raids system, individual skill did not make an impact, and what I mean by that, is in a fractal, a single highly skilled player can in fact make a massive improvement in the success rate of most instance based content. In Dungeons and Fractals, A single skilled player, if they have the skills, they could be the moving force behind the victory.

In a raid, that simply does not exist, you could be the best raid tank in the game, and it would not in fact improve the groups overall chance to beat the encounter anymore then if they had a ‘passably decent’ raid tank.

Maybe that is what people enjoy, good for them. Not sure how that equates to the ego that many people have, when in the end, they don’t individually matter that much.

I believe that Anet announced they made over a million sales of HoT and had over 6 Million accounts.

Now, accounts is kinda loaded, because that can mean any account, F2P, Paid, long since stop logging in… anything. So ignoring that.

Lets go those 1 Million HoT Sales.

Since HoT is still recent, lets say, they could hold 10% of the people that bought it.

So I think it’s reasonable to wager that 9 out of 10 people that shelled out money for the expansion moved on to other things by this time, which would explain why everyone’s friend list was empty.

Now, It could be a bit more or a bit less, but, lets go with 10% just to give us something to play with.

That would be roughly 100K Active accounts, across all servers, time zones, EU and NA and all modes of play.

Does that sound reasonable?

It’s a great idea, in theory, but I have no idea how to make it happen without turning it into a huge ball of cow manure for a lot of the existing WvW players.

The Zealous Templar.3861:

I mean to be fair you’ve made several sweeping statements about the raiding community and raids with very little experience.

How many times would you need to chew on razor blades, before you discovered you didn’t like it?

Coconut.7082:

STIHL.2489:

Neox.3497:

Yeah because you can compare the fail rate of raids with dungeons and fractals. Haha nice joke.

The only joke in this topic is that people think Raids are special or hard.

I disagree, I think the only joke in this topic is that people who never cleared any raid think they are so easy, and also use it as an excuse to not try raiding!

Everyone on this topic made it clear it was the community surrounding Raids that made Raids unappealing.

Your post does a solid job of reinforcing their feelings on the matter.

IndigoSundown.5419:

STIHL.2489:

The Zealous Templar.3861:

. If you can’t overlook this minority then I guess sticking to environments where failure isn’t as strong a possibility is the best option and there isn’t anything wrong with that.

It’s never a question of failure, It’s a question of elitism and exclusion.

- snip for brevity -

In fact, it is the people that say “Need to prove your Worth to Join” that are the ones that fear failure.

Not wanting to fail does not mean fear of failure in all cases. Exceedingly few people want to fail. It’s my guess that, for a lot of players anyway, the more they’ve succeeded the easier the raid has become for them. The easier something is, the less tolerance a lot of people will have for failure.

Some raiders know they can beat the content because they have beaten it, sometimes many times. That’s a quite different place from knowing that the other guy may better you in PvP or WvW.

Rewards — such as they are — in the two PvP modes are poor by comparison to PvE. thus, participation is more likely to be because: the player likes the gameplay. There is a lot less sameness to the gameplay in PvP. There’s satisfaction in beating another player, and frustration in losing. There’s also excitement in knowing you might see something unexpected from the opponent. That’s one reason devs shake up PvP metas, to lessen the sense you’re facing the same thing all the time.

In raids, there are no rewards for wipes. It’s a fact of life in MMO’s that rewards are used to entice players into repeating the same stuff over and over. In raids, or any PvE content, really, once the content is learned and one is playing by rote, the lack of newness can equate to boredom. Thus, the rewards. If you’re wanting to get the thing over with to further the reward, there will also be less (or no) tolerance for dragging the process out. Of top of that, raids take time, and failure extends that time. We’re not all kids anymore, and time can be short for a lot of people.

Are there any players who fear wipes? Maybe. However, I don’t think we have to look further than the idea that in content where one knows what to expect, and where one has succeeded before (in some cases, many times) there is less tolerance for wasting time. I believe lack of patience is a much more likely underlying cause than fear.

THANK YOU! Finally some honesty that people only do PvE for the Loot, and that PvP is played for the Challenge factor, I have been getting so sick and tired of everyone and their brother trying to pass off that they want challenge while still sticking to scripted combat encounters.

timmyf.1490:

STIHL.2489:

Neox.3497:

Yeah because you can compare the fail rate of raids with dungeons and fractals. Haha nice joke.

The only joke in this topic is that people think Raids are special or hard.

Well they require double the people and require fixed roles, so it takes longer to start. And if somebody rage-quits, you get 9 people standing around waiting (an often long time) to replace them.

It’s not that they’re hard, it’s that they are a considerably larger organizational challenge.

WHEN PUGGING, it’s best to ensure competent players to keep from people getting upset and leaving.

With guild runs, friendslist runs, whatever, it’s much easier to be forgiving. I don’t mind taking extra time helping guildies learn the content because they’ll run with me again in the future. I’m INVESTING my time in their development.

I don’t necessarily care to do that for strangers.

If that makes me toxic, then fine. I’m toxic.

You know. This might come as a shock, but We agree.

Truth is, while I am not a fan of the Raid mechanics in general, I’d do a raid with my guild mates or my friends if they needed a spot filled, but, truth is, I’d never Pug a Raid and I’d never join a random.

And I know I am not alone in that, and because of that difficulty in getting a group together, I don’t see how that kind of content makes for a better community or a better game.

Equally so, I don’t see how taking a bunch of classes that were designed from the ground up to be very self sufficient, to then delegate them down to archaic MMO roles is improvement, that looks like a regression in game play and game design to me, not a progression.

In the long and short of things, I simply don’t see what Raids, in the social or mechanical sense, brought to the table that could not have been done better, by simply adding more challenging and dynamic higher level fractals.

Again, just my feels on the matter.

Anyway, I believe this discussion has run it’s course for me.

I wish you well.

KickzNGigglez.4958:

Also I can confirm the T4 boxes drop rare rewards at a higher rate. As they were the only ones to drop anything of value.

I believe you, and really, for the last few months I’ve been really struggling with the reward table in this game being all six colors of kittened up. Maybe it’s time to walk away for a while.

Neox.3497:

Yeah because you can compare the fail rate of raids with dungeons and fractals. Haha nice joke.

The only joke in this topic is that people think Raids are special or hard.

The Zealous Templar.3861:

. If you can’t overlook this minority then I guess sticking to environments where failure isn’t as strong a possibility is the best option and there isn’t anything wrong with that.

It’s never a question of failure, It’s a question of elitism and exclusion.

The two have nothing in common.

In every sPvP map, half the people who showed up will fail, and all smack talk aside, they know this. Yet they still go in and play. For the people that hot join, or don’t have a fixed group, they go in knowing it’s going to be a mixed bag, and the other 4 people could be totally bad, yet, they still take that risk and jump in.

In WvW, 2 out of 3 teams, will lose, And they know this. Yet they still go in and play. They don’t demand that everyone or anyone for that matter on the field meets a specific metric, only that they try their best to contribute to victory.

In Every Dungeon you see that is an Open Pugs that Says “All Welcome” or just "Path (whatever) takes a high risk of failure because they know they will get a mixed bag of players, and in fact some might not know the content at all, or even be able to do the content. Yet they put that tag up, knowing that risk.

Every Fractal that says “T(x) Dailies” or “Scale (x)” is an open invite, while it is expected that someone has the AR to survive, there is no demand they know the fractal, or have the rest of the gear to be able to handle the content. Yet they put that up, knowing the risks.

So there is no fear of a “risk of failure” among the vast majority of this game, and surely not among the casuals.

In fact, it is the people that say “Need to prove your Worth to Join” that are the ones that fear failure.

katz.8376:

most people encountered aside from guildies or friends when attempting to raid are real kittens about it.

Very good point, and I rescind a bit, my guildmates and friends, were super cool about raids, and most of the toxic community I encountered came from pugs and randoms.

timmyf.1490:

It’s nobody’s responsibility to convince you to do the content. If your attitude is going to be “why should I bother, you’re all toxic” then I’d just prefer you not be in the raiding community.

“Hey you stupid toxic kittens, convince me to play with you” isn’t really the way to go about it.

I didn’t start this topic, but, I get the feeling that posts like this encapsulates exactly why this entire topic exists.

The Zealous Templar.3861:

I’d just like to chime in and say that VG does not represent other raid bosses very well, salvation pass especially has a much different feel to it that I think you would like where everyone has nearly equal responsibility (no set tank, various mechanics for everyone). VG is a snoozefest for 5 players but reasonably difficult for the other 5. If you haven’t played as the tank or the green circle role then I don’t think you fully appreciate the challenge they face either (maybe you have, if so ignore this).

Finally do I think VG is more fun than some T4 fracs? No tbh, mechanics feel too forced in a way but I believe it’s like that to act as a raid introduction making the mechanics super obvious (gimmicky). Do I think Slothasor is more fun than some T4 fracs? Most certainly, it’s my favourite fight in the game by far.

Guess I’m just trying to get you to give wing 2 a shot before writing off raids as a whole as in my experience it’s way more fun!

Fair response, and to answer your questions, yes, I have done tank and circles, used a scrapper engineer as a tank, it wasn’t bad, wasn’t hard either, all just twitch about when to dodge, but the moves were choreographed well enough, so that once I knew what to look for, it timing it was not difficult. Dancing Mai Trin’s Cannons, (depending on the group), could be much harder, LOL.

However, let me ask you a question. Why should I go through the effort to learn Wing2, if I already feel that the Raid game mode inspires a toxic community, and because of that, is not something I want to support?

Coconut.7082:

Seems like you a judging the whole “Raid” by VG mechanics. Did you know that not all bosses have green circles?
Judging from your comment, you didn’t get past VG because of failing green circles, which is in your opinion a very easy. But why did this happen if it’s all so easy? maybe it was the tank’s movement? or lack of healing? or lack of seeker control?, it all comes down to teamwork, and if some people fail to do their job, it will make the whole team fail.
That’s what’s hard about raids, not the mechanics themselves (for most people).
As much as I don’t disagree with you on the opinion that VG is “easy”, I think that saying “It’s too easy and that’s why I don’t want to do it, and those who do it shouldn’t get a better reward” is just a bad excuse.

VG was the first raid, as such, as far as Mechanics go, that is what I have to work with.

I totally agree with you, I found the VG mechanics crudely simplistic, all the challenge was not in dealing with this epic boss, but simply “Stand Here” “Dodge Now”. I dunno, maybe that is what contemporary gamers feel is a “Raid”, these days, last game I played with raids in it was Dungeons and Dragons Online, and a raid in that game, that was an event.

If this is what currently passes for a raid, great, honestly it wasn’t working for me. There was never this presence of tension to it, even when I did circles, I would stand there helpless if everyone else didn’t make it as well. And losing was never a “Wow Guys that was so close, if we just work a little more we can take him” it was never that, it was always it was always this dismissive “Ok let’s try again, someone didn’t make the circle”

I guess some people find that fun, I didn’t.. and when you couple that with a what I see as a very unfounded attitude, the whole thing looks surprisingly unappealing.

Scipion.7548:

Are necros accepted in Dungeon and Fractals?

Depressing. I dont know other AAA mmorpgs where you can read that kind of question, “is class X accepted in …”.
Has GW2 the worst community or the worst balance classes ?

I think it’s just a small group of elitist that ruin the game for others. Personally, I have never even bothered to look at a build makeup when doing Dungeons and Fractals, if you know what you’re doing, and how to play your class well, that is worth more then numbers to me, and if you can tough out a wipe because you walked in knowing that the group was going to me a mix-mash, then you’re the kind of player I want to have by my side anyway.

Thaddeus.4891:

STIHL.2489:

Then we disagree. I have seen never seen such a toxic attitude in any other part of this game, as I have seen with raids, and I enjoy me quite a bit of WvW.

It’s all about personal experience and your personal experience doesn’t represent all experience and there isn’t even really a way to know which personal experience represent the majority. If anything, I believe that the personal experience of the majority when it come to raid is people that just never tried it yet.

My personal experience was on playing with other people. My raid group is now almost 30 ppl strong and several of those person I just never played with them even if there were in my guild. Some of them I never heard of them before and now I play with them every week, we do fractal together and we talk over our VOIP on a regular basis. The few times I pugged was a good time. I had friendly people, there was one troll that we made fun of with the pugs, and the first 2 bosses when so nicely that we kept the pug that never did Sabetha and we explained it to him. I know and play with more different people now than I did before raid. But again, that’s my personal experience and I won’t gonna generalize to say that all the community is loving and nice, just like you shouldn’t say that they are the most toxic community you ever seen in GW2.

Of course we are expressing our personal experiences, I don’t speak for you, but I do speak for me and what I have seen and dealt with. And with that, I have never seen such a toxic attitude in any other game mode as I have with raids. That can’t be argued, because that is my sampling. Now, I have no idea why people become like that, or, if the raid does not bring it our, what it is about raids that attracts or that kind of person.

Now I have tried the raids with my guild. All in all, I don’t get the attraction to them, they are not hard, at all, VG is pretty simple as far as mechanics go, and have had far more intense and dynamic encounters doing T4 fractals, hell, doing some T3 fractals have given me a bigger thrill then the raid provided.

Now, I don’t have anything against raids, directly, in fact, I have to agree with you all, they are not hard, the mechanic for VG is crudely simple really and the few times I tried VG, the only reason why we wiped at all, ever, was because 4 people did not stand on the circles in time. Say what you will, but that’s a super lame mechanic. But, In that regard, it might be because I’m an old school MMO player, I killed Lady Vox when the level cap was 50, I used to do elite raid rotations in DDO before Epic Levels, and to me, it was just not a raid as there was nothing noteworthy about it.

I get that people will find a way to love it because they want the loot attached to it, but, really, between you, me, and everyone on this forums, Anet is well known for not being able to provide a good balance of loot vs challenge, WvW being a great example of their failure to strike a good balance between the two, and my feelings on it, Raids were also such a case as far as PvE goes, T4 fractals should give better loot then Raids, if it was based on challenge and prep, as fractals (and even some dungeons) are more dynamic and involved but T4 also has a hard gear check, which means it should drop the best loot in the game, imho.

So, honestly, No, I don’t get why people have such an attitude about Raids, or why they even think they are special, or deserving of anything beyond what a Dungeon provides, as they are not really all that hard mechanically, I’ve dealt with harder jumping puzzles.

My reasons for not getting into raiding is, honestly, the biggest one was the community turned me off, that was simply not the group of people I wanted to spend time with, based on my sampling of them. To a far lesser extent, while I could find myself doing it for the loot, it did not seem like fun “Green/Dodge” is not my idea of what a Raid should be. Maybe the other Bosses are more dynamic, but, honestly, after VG, can’t say I’m feeling the urge to see what Monkey Dance the others really are.

If anyone really wanted to “spy” they could make a free account, and just join the server they are facing.

in other games I have played, they had a /duel option, might be a grand idea for GW2, to have such a feature, but make it so that players can only /duel in cities.

Bast Bow.2958:

STIHL.2489:

I have to totally agree with you on this one, It’s weird, and to be honest I have no idea why it happens, but this kind of content really seems to bring out the worst among people as opposed to the best in them, and all it ends up doing is divide up the community, as opposed to bring people together.

I disagree with you for the most part, because of my experiences and what I have seen.

Then we disagree. I have seen never seen such a toxic attitude in any other part of this game, as I have seen with raids, and I enjoy me quite a bit of WvW.

Sird.4536:

Because everyone that can’t do the content comes out complaining and wanting easier content which then brings out the other side saying it’s not hard find a guild or friends.

What exactly do you hope to accomplish by doing this?

In the end, either people will agree with you, that raids are easy, and thus nothing really note worthy or they will disagree with you, to which you simply continue to fight with them.. but to what end?

Vinceman.4572:

STIHL.2489:

but this kind of content really seems to bring out the worst among people as opposed to the best in them, and all it ends up doing is divide up the community, as opposed to bring people together.

Well, that’s obviously not true. Have you ever played PvP? Way worse.

PvP is actually competitive, players fighting other players as such there is a certain amount of “smack talk” that is to be expected in any kind of PvP arena, whereupon, PvE is collaborative, and there really is no place for this “Smack Talk”

With that put out, I have personally found GW2 PvP, to be around average to polite in comparison to other PvP arena games.

Ever farmed on maps like Cursed Shore or Silverwastes?

Silverwastes quite a bit to be honest. I can honestly say, I have never seen much in the way of toxic attitude, I mean there is always that one deserter that cries “You all Suck” before rage quitting during a VW, but, when it came to playing the game, I never heard someone say something along the lines of “Only people with full ascended come to Amber keep, need to have your Be All end All title!”

So, no, I can say I have never seen anywhere near the level of toxic excusatory nature that Raids have brought to the game and community.

SkyShroud.2865:

The merger or world link to me is simply a quick band aid to solve the lack of population for sustain gameplay. it doesn’t solve the population imbalance issue.

in many mmos i have played, all mmo that go by the idea of setting “full” status via a very simple minded “max number” always fail to balance population. these mmo developers are mistaking that FPS, MOBA, RTS etc. servers or matchup of max players concept is applicable to a MMO context. however, reality is it is never applicable.

in fps server, we have forced balancing like what you see in spvp but you can’t apply force balancing to servers, people will QQ about it. thus, it is exactly because you can’t apply force balancing to servers, the only way to “force” balance is to control the intake.

however, the current flaw is that the intake is base on the “max players” concept which is only applicable to games that has forced balancing. anet need to get rid of that max players context by implementing a dynamic max players which analyze the highest and lowest server population’s disparity, then close off the highest server if that disparity grows. this will effectively prevent people from stacking on server while emptying the lowest server, this will also punish multiple guilds from the highest server in their attempt to stack on another top ranked server since the “highest” populated server is subjective.

This is a Great Idea, to get rid of que’s, where as each BL gets qued, they are allowed to grow in population at an even amount. In that venture, your idea works, however, with WvW, you still need a starting point which is where the problem is.

You can’t make it 1 player and then move up from there, as that would make for totally dead BL’s and quickly insane que’s, which would destroy WvW faster then any other system. WvW is not sPvP, it’s not meant for small bands of around 5 people to cap points and interact, it’s about World Combat, Large groups of people, perhaps, several large groups and various smaller groups all on the field, trying to out maneuver or out man their opponent.

Now WvW is supposed to be large scale combat, it’s not solo fights, and small 5 person teams, it’s large scale, So, there would need to be a starting point for this large scale team up before even the idea of a que could begin, Lets say, 20 people, (can’t even pop swords) before we begin that flux player population shift. In that case, you can still end up with 20 vs 1, which, to be honest, is not a fun match at all. Before the link, that was what was server imbalance wad for the lower tier servers, it was something like 15 vs 2. or 18 vs 6,

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Yes, it’s just that simple. I don’t think raids are “bad” necessarily, but anytime we get this type of content, in any game, it does seem to bring out the less than savory side of people. It just highlights how terrible a lot of people are.

I have to totally agree with you on this one, It’s weird, and to be honest I have no idea why it happens, but this kind of content really seems to bring out the worst among people as opposed to the best in them, and all it ends up doing is divide up the community, as opposed to bring people together.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You know…some of us said this kitten would happen if raiding ever came into the game. We expressed this concern. Even cited the asinine requirements not just from GW2 dungeons (because we already saw issues with this), but all the way back to issues we saw in GW1 and other games too.

We got shouted down. Guess what… we told you so.

There is a good chance you are 100% correct, that you did warn them, and that simply means that you care about the game, and the community, however, one of things I learned from the many years of playing MMO’s, is that it’s the company’s game, not ours, and as much as we might try to steer the boat, it’s their game, and that means, it’s theirs to screw up.

One of the most glaring things about HoT, was this move to make a massive re-direction from how the original game was built and designed, the zones, the mobs, everything was a planned direction change, it was not a mistake on their part to do what they did.. and as you said, you warned them, so, it could become a mistake, because it might have very negative results, but, it was the direction they wanted to go in.

Which brings me to something else I learned. When a MMO goes in a direction that you don’t want to follow, the best thing you can do is.. Don’t Follow.

It’s a game, if you are not having fun, you don’t look forward to logging in and playing the game, the worst thing you can do, is keep playing.

I understand that urge to at least say something, it means you care, it means the game matters to you, and that you feel that it is worth fighting for it, but, its not your game, it’s not my game, and it’s not the “raiders on this forums” game, it’s Arenanet’s game.

I do not mean this in any way to be rude, in fact, I mean this is in the most polite and positive way I can say it, never play a game past the post of being fun, If you are unhappy with the way they are going, then maybe it’s time to find some place else where you will be happier and have more fun.

You won’t change anything arguing with the people on this forum, they won’t listen, and all you will do is frustrate yourself.

NikeEU.7690:

STIHL.2489:

I find it funny that people make a big deal about the PvE Content in this game, when every game review site, lists the PvE Content of GW2 as Super Causal Carebear stuff, with the only real challenging content being PvP orientated.

Source: “game review sites” lolol

Not sure where you go for reviews of games, but, I use, TenTonHammer & MMORPG, if you don’t use them, I highly recommend them as great sources for both up coming MMO’s, as well reviews of existing MMO’s if you are in the market sort to speak.

Edit Added:

Also, If you are feeling lucky, and want to trudge though countless blogs, forums and reddit posts you could just Google Most Casual MMO and you would find GW2, topping the charts most places.