Guild Wars 2

Audrey.7246:

Scrambles.2604:

I am happy to hear you take more issue with the presentation of my argument rather than the substance.

Here is my reply to the “presentation” of your argument:

(1) You dismiss concerns posted by others about how they have been treated in the past in other games that offer the feature that you want. You call it fear mongering, exaggeration, etc. How do you know? What makes you the arbiter of which past experiences matter?

(2) You want no, or very little restrictions on the feature. GW2 has nearly two years of experience with the lack of this feature in open world PvE. Some players have even stated they chose this game specifically due to the lack of this feature.

(3) You dismiss claims that this feature will cause additional harassment in the game by an equivalency that harassment is already in the game and that there are mechanisms to deal with it already. Others, including myself, have offered various solutions that will limit the potential for harassment. Any that causes even the smallest restriction to your wanted feature you dismiss.

(4) Other players have made you aware that specific PvP areas are available and already set up for what you want. Your major argument here is that the current offerings don’t permit using PvE equipment. Perhaps you should propose that PvE equipment be permitted as another sandbox in these areas instead of bringing it into an area that was not built for it?

tldr: You want unrestricted dueling in PvE and nothing anyone presents opposing it is a valid counterpoint to it in your opinion.

I think it’s more realistic to believe that harassment occurs a small percentage of the time. Others in this thread have tried to paint a picture of harassment being a guaranteed effect, or even the intention of open world dueling.

One person literally said “I don’t want dueling because…[implied harassment happens] …and my name gets slandered in map chat.” I think the likelihood of this happening to any one of us is soooooo low that it shouldn’t even be considered an issue. It may happen in extreme cases, but this is not something 99.9% of players will experience. And EVEN if it does happen. So what? The consequences of your name being slandered in map chat are so minimal that i find this complaint hard to take seriously.

I want easy, accessible, open world duels, anywhere. Based on concerns of this thread, as well as tools that have been implemented in other games (DCUO has the best as far as i’ve seen), i and many others have agreed an “opt-in” dueling option would alleviate many concerns. Concerns i personally find trivial, but concessions i can tolerate because it doesn’t harm the essential spirit of open world duels.

I think it’s weird that people are willing to tolerate current harassment and any harassment that may come with additional features (like wardrobe or LS season 2), but in the context of dueling (cough when it supports their argument), not only is harassment intolerable but EVEN THE SIGHT of duels is something to resist.

Finally, as has been repeated over and over again, custom sPvP is not a great substitute- You have to zone your character to another area, you cannot play on your WvW toon, you have to pay 1600 Gems for your own dueling area, or you are forced to use an open one which is subject to interuptions. Not to mention you are limited to just using sPvP maps, and a custom sPvP match can result in death and respawn time. Ideally, no one would die in a duel (unless you fought on a mountain or something…which would be awesome!_

I hope i addressed all of your concerns.

Gearbox.2748:

“great”——— 50min drum talk……

Here is an idea… stop kittening making the annoying instruments! and get pack to fixing the game.-

“Dear Anet Audio department, Please refocus your efforts towards game balance. Put those music composition degrees to good use!”

Audrey.7246:

Scrambles.2604:

Please keep real world politics off of this forum such as references to “fox news-esque hyperbole.” I don’t expect to see them here and I doubt may others do either.

BTW, they tend to divert attention from your main argument and cause at least half your potential audience to dismiss what you are trying to say.

It wasn’t a reference to politics but instead to the usage of scare tactics and doom saying. I thought it was kind of funny, but i also realize this discussion is incredibly serious.

I am happy to hear you take more issue with the presentation of my argument rather than the substance.

jweez.7214:

Hi can’t access the stream from work. Could u describe it so I can share in your outrage?

I take it the China release seems like a big deal, but the latest live stream featured the three of the people that worked on the Frame Drum.

I don’t understand the outrage, but i also understand the China release doesn’t really impact us, beyond the revenue it may generate. I also recognize that a company has multiple teams working on different things.

I read your initial suggestion as well as the follow-ups. Forgive me if i don’t fully understand an idea that mostly exists in your head.

Without nitpicking the little points, my overall issue with your suggestion is that it needlessly complicates something that could be easily solved with something like an opt-in system or a “duel flag” that has been suggested here as well as past iterations of these duel threads.

It seems you are on a crusade to save the virgin eyes of strict PvE players, god forbid they see two players fight each other. Again, i think you are overestimating the amount of ONLY PvE players and are still needlessly overprotective of PvE players.

The open world isn’t provided as an escape from PvP and it isn’t even a strictly PvE environment. It is there to do as you leisure. You could simply AFK, play instruments, costume brawl, RP, etc. There is nothing that dictates the only business you have in the open world is targeting monsters and then attacking them. It seems like you are stuck on this idea that Anet has provided players with 3 different games bundled in 1.

Regardless, i expressed my thoughts on your suggestion and was met with the classic Sorudo volatility. I don’t know what i expected, haha. However, it is good to see now that you are slowly making the move to being constructive vs. incoherent rants.

sorudo.9054:

Wetpaw.3487:

sorudo.9054:

the poll will never win other then “all around the PvE world” because most PvE-ers don’t look at the forums nor do they want to mingle in the discussion at all.

anyway, let’s recap:
-pro-duelers wants this in the PvE world, anti-duelers don’t want anything to do with duels.
-flagging the duelers works but only partly.
-different shards for different sides keeps them separated, giving both sides there way.
-duel challenges can be really annoying when working things out UI related so something need to prevent frustrations like that. (i would say make it a small icon at the side of the screen so when someone challenges you, you don’t have a big fat window in the screen but a small blinking icon)
-pro-duelers don’t always want to duel and harassments are common with this, after 2 declines the challenger can not challenge the player for 15 minutes to prevent abuse.
-any player in the normal PvE shard can not duel at all.
-the flag system works in two ways, 1) it gives the game a sign that you want to be among other duelers, 2) you can set your self as ether an active or non-active dueler so it’s not forced. (some ppl simply want to see duels, they don’t want to fight them)

i hope i didn’t miss something.

A shard/phase system would be unlikely. Either not at all, a feature added for everyone w/an option in options not allowing requests for duels, or the gem store way.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/PvE-Dueling/page/9

uhmm, that’s like saying “i am allergic to cats but my wive wanted a cat, so we bought a cat”.
PvE is a place to get away from PvP, not a place to have less PvP.
the shard idea will actually solve about 85% of all the problems duels brings, it would be foolish to not use this.
we already have shard in GW2, take advantage on that option.

The first issue with your “shard” suggestion is that it offers the same level of accessibility that custom sPvP offers. The point of duels is to be able to duel right there, right now, and having to go through a loading screen to duel defeats the purpose.

Also, I think you are overestimating the amount of strictly, PvE only players, as well as being a little over protective of their “strictly PvE” environment. Also, Anet seems to want to promote players dabbling in all areas of the game, rather than stick to one area.

Furthermore, creating a system that segregates different players in the same open world will essentially undo most of the effort and intentions of mega servers.

I picked up the Frame Drum and was a little off put by the responsiveness of the drum. I watched the live stream about the frame drum and it turns out it wasn’t just me or my latency, but the drum is designed to play specific patterns in order to synchronize with other drummers around you.

This is cool and all, but if it is possible, I would like to suggest the ability to enable a “free play” mode, where the drum responds to your actual button presses rather than preset rhythms. This way the frame drum can cater to people that just want to jam along, hassle free, as well as real life musicians who can take advantage of the rhythmic freedom.

Otherwise, thanks for the frame drum anyway and thanks for doing the live stream. I learned that i wasn’t just paranoid or lagging regarding the responsiveness of the drum, and i also learned some cool tricks with the looping.

Palador.2170:

Scrambles.2604:

I think that is a little ridiculous, that there are bullies out there that are determined to seek out a certain subset of not-easily-identifiable players to harass them. I won’t deny that the potential for this will always exist, but i think you are exaggerating the likelihood of this occurring, as well as the significance of the impact this altercation would produce.

You do realize that to harass RPers, the griefers often have to go well out of their way to find the various RP spots, right? But, let’s look at something you said earlier:

Scrambles.2604:

I don’t need to talk to RPers, i TOO have been harassed, but in the context of lfg and dungeon running. It happens EVERYWHERE! But I am capable of seeing this inevitability and working to find solution, instead of being stuck as a helpless victim. Also, i’ve been playing multiplayer games long enough that i can tolerate this sort of behavior.

Even you admit it happens throughout the game, so I don’t know why you think dueling would somehow be immune to it.

During the last big thread on this, I started out opposed to the idea but eventually I was convinced it could be okay, if steps were taken to make sure it wasn’t an easy griefing tool. In this thread, I have tried to maintain that stance and work for a good outcome for all. The most opposed to it I’ve been is to say “I’m not wild about the idea”, while trying to get a refined proposal that will make everyone somewhat happy.

If done right, it’s not going to be the end of the world for those that don’t like open world dueling. On the other hand, I don’t want people pretending that it WON’T be used for griefing (just like anything else that can be so used is), and getting us a system that becomes little more than a griefing tool. Nor do I want the devs to spend a bunch of time on a dueling system that will wind up making nobody happy because what they envisioned and what the players wanted were two different things.

I have said over and over again, with or without dueling there will always be potential for harassment as long as two players can interact with each other. There are simple measures that could be taken with the introduction of open world dueling that would maintain the spirit of duels, while alleviating concerns of people who don’t care to duel at all.

It seems we both agree on this, so i’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish.

To answer your initial question, not only do i think instances of “duel harassment” will be rare and the consequences of said harassment will be negligible, i think there are tools currently in place and additional tools that could be added to make this a non-issue.

Palador.2170:

Scrambles.2604:

Palador.2170:

Scrambles.2604:

I find it hard to believe that in GW2, where you are generally one of 20-50 players participating in an open world event, someone is going to single YOU out of everybody and attempt to duel you or harass you. It is possible, in the context of a fantastic story crafted to support you argument on the forums, but in reality it is very unlikely that someone will pick you out, unprovoked, and harass you only because you didn’t want to duel.

Talk to some RPers about how the trolls seek them out and harass them while they’re RPing. These people go out of their way to track targets down and mess with them in the hopes of upsetting them enough to make them quit the game.

There is no doubt that some of them will consider the non-duelers to be their new target group if dueling is put into the game. It WILL happen, there’s no use pretending it won’t. The question is, will it be rare enough to be tolerable?

I don’t need to talk to RPers, i TOO have been harassed, but in the context of lfg and dungeon running. It happens EVERYWHERE! But I am capable of seeing this inevitability and working to find solution, instead of being stuck as a helpless victim. Also, i’ve been playing multiplayer games long enough that i can tolerate this sort of behavior.

“There is no doubt that some of them will consider the non-duelers to be their new target group if dueling is put into the game.”

There is no doubt? Really? As in, players will live ONLY to seek out people that don’t want to duel, just to harass them because they don’t want to duel? This is the kind of fantastic situation manufactering, fearmongering, fox news-esque hyperbole i’ve been talking about.

I’m sorry, I can’t seem to find where I said “players will live ONLY to seek out people that don’t want to duel, just to harass them because they don’t want to duel”. I can find where I said that some of the current griefers will change targets, griefers even you admit to the existance of, but I can’t find where I said what you claim I said.

So, Bill O’Reilly, would you do me the favor of quoting and highlighting where I said those words? And if you can’t, please do us all the favor of deleting that and any other such misleading posts you’ve made in this thread.

Thank you.

Rpers have been targets of harassment since before MMOs were created. You are implying there are players that will specifically seek out people that don’t want to duel.

I think that is a little ridiculous, that there are bullies out there that are determined to seek out a certain subset of not-easily-identifiable players to harass them. I won’t deny that the potential for this will always exist, but i think you are exaggerating the likelihood of this occurring, as well as the significance of the impact this altercation would produce.

Phadde.7362:

Scrambles.2604:

Phadde.7362:

^If we don’t have Dueling areas (purely in the technical sense) I think there need to be solutions to avoid people from getting harassed (mostly for those that get no joy out of a dueling system).

i think the “opt-in” duel flag (available via Gem store) is the best solution. If someone wants to duel you and you don’t want to, you could always be like “Man, I would love to duel, but i can’t afford the stupid duel flag!”

The is a legitimate reason why you couldn’t duel, beyond not wanting to. I mean, a harasser could still bully you, just like they could now or at any time in the games future, but i think this is the best sort of tool to proactively deal with any instances of harassment that may occur.

Maybe improve the report/block/ignore system to, but that is an issue for a different thread.

A few pages ago, I was really put off by the idea to purchase the ability from the company that I’ve always seen as a default feature in any MMO, but now, it seems like a fairly legit solution actually.

Still think that:

• Well placed and large Dueling areas, or…
• A Opt-in Dueling feature with a tag that’s disabled by default, which isn’t allowed in the more crowded parts of the main cities…
  … is a better idea.

Yeah, i’m not a big fan of putting everything behind a pay-wall. Which is why i would just spend gold on it, haha.

But putting it in the Gem store would validate the time/effort/resources expended to create the feature. Not to mention the added effort to support extra caveats that would need to be added to appease those who think clicking “decline” isn’t enough.

Putting it in the Gem store is restrictive, but making open world duels only available in certain in-game areas is even more restrictive, and pretty much defeats the purpose of “open world” dueling.

The optimal solution would be to not put it in the Gem store. But adding it a legitimate, and not easily circumvented barrier of entry would drastically reduce the potential of harassment against people that have no interest in dueling.

Palador.2170:

Scrambles.2604:

I find it hard to believe that in GW2, where you are generally one of 20-50 players participating in an open world event, someone is going to single YOU out of everybody and attempt to duel you or harass you. It is possible, in the context of a fantastic story crafted to support you argument on the forums, but in reality it is very unlikely that someone will pick you out, unprovoked, and harass you only because you didn’t want to duel.

Talk to some RPers about how the trolls seek them out and harass them while they’re RPing. These people go out of their way to track targets down and mess with them in the hopes of upsetting them enough to make them quit the game.

There is no doubt that some of them will consider the non-duelers to be their new target group if dueling is put into the game. It WILL happen, there’s no use pretending it won’t. The question is, will it be rare enough to be tolerable?

I don’t need to talk to RPers, i TOO have been harassed, but in the context of lfg and dungeon running. It happens EVERYWHERE! But I am capable of seeing this inevitability and working to find solution, instead of being stuck as a helpless victim. Also, i’ve been playing multiplayer games long enough that i can tolerate this sort of behavior.

“There is no doubt that some of them will consider the non-duelers to be their new target group if dueling is put into the game.”

There is no doubt? Really? As in, players will live ONLY to seek out people that don’t want to duel, just to harass them because they don’t want to duel? This is the kind of fantastic situation manufactering, fearmongering, fox news-esque hyperbole i’ve been talking about.

Phadde.7362:

^If we don’t have Dueling areas (purely in the technical sense) I think there need to be solutions to avoid people from getting harassed (mostly for those that get no joy out of a dueling system).

i think the “opt-in” duel flag (available via Gem store) is the best solution. If someone wants to duel you and you don’t want to, you could always be like “Man, I would love to duel, but i can’t afford the stupid duel flag!”

There is a legitimate reason why you couldn’t duel, beyond not wanting to. I mean, a harasser could still bully you, just like they could now or at any time in the games future, but i think this is the best sort of tool to proactively deal with any instances of harassment that may occur.

Maybe improve the report/block/ignore system to, but that is an issue for a different thread.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I remember this kind of thing in DCUO and people would either harass you for duels or mock you until they found something better to do if you declined. IMHO it only fuels those with an over inflated ego from winning too many duels to become even more self absorbed and kitteny. I would be okay with designated areas where dueling could take place, such as Heart Of The Mists for example. But open world I would be totally against.

I find it hard to believe that in GW2, where you are generally one of 20-50 players participating in an open world event, someone is going to single YOU out of everybody and attempt to duel you or harass you. It is possible, in the context of a fantastic story crafted to support your argument on the forums, but in reality it is very unlikely that someone will pick you out, unprovoked, and harass you only because you didn’t want to duel.

It’s wonderful to have the ability to duel people anywhere in the open world, but once the novelty has worn off you will find people who are REALLY interested in dueling (you know, the duel-pro, try-hards you fear so much) will congregate in commonly known “dueling areas” (like outside of SW or Org in WoW). If you are standing near one of those areas, you are much more likely to get duel requested.

But anywhere else in the world, what are the odds someone will actually duel request you? And beyond that, what are the odds that the person that requests the duel will actually go further on the harass you because you declined?

I find it interesting that you mentioned harassment in DCU. When i played the game had an auto-decline feature, and apparently now it has an “opt-in” to duel feature. The potential for harassment will be there for ANYTHING that can be implemented in game, that is a given. So, in order to combat this inevitability, you need to add measures to prevent and retaliate against harassment, which in the context of your harassment situation, you did not take advantage of any of the tools available to you.

Complaining about harassment is the last bastion of anyone without a real argument. If that is the only reason you can come up with to combat the request for duels, then you must have exhausted all other good arguments. You could literally look at any suggestion, or any new potential feature and say “oh no this would lead to abuse!” Well of course, it would.

As long as two players can communicate between each other, there will always be a potential for abuse. There is no room for growth if you get stuck on the constant, inevitable consequence of players being able to interact with each other. If the goal was to eliminate abuse, MMOs or multiplayer games wouldn’t exist. You have to get past that and come up with ideas on how to limit, prevent, and counter abuse.

Atlas.9704:

runeblade.7514:

The PvE world is not duel free right now.

There are multiple skillpoints where you duel a npc.

“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
-Inigo Montoya

Within the context of these threads its always pointed towards other players.
Saying stuff like skillpoints or NPCs is an example of dueling is like saying costume brawl is a fine example of PvP in the Open World.

It isn’t because it is an activity which doesn’t take your stats into consideration.

Back to the original point, dueling with a skillpoint or NPC is simply beating down a scripted AI.
It doesn’t get better, it doesn’t complain that it had lag, it doesn’t jump up and down whispering derogatory comments if it loses or wins, and it doesn’t refit itself for a rematch.

Therefore these PvE duels you use as an example aren’t even examples to help your case.

If you want 1v1 open world PvP, which is really the whole concept for these duel requests, then fix the WvWvW because there’s your Open World PvP environment.
Even Colin agrees that WvWvW is a really good middle ground between PvE and PvP:

We feel like WvW is a really good middle-ground between PvE and PvP and want to encourage people to think of the mists as part of our world they should explore and experience,…

Yes the response comes from a Map Completion/WvWvW related question, but the answer still shows how ANet seems to see their game.
PvP has one world utterly to themselves: sPvP
PvE has one world utterly to themselves: PvE
Both share one world: WvWvW, so stick it there.

The only reason i brought up skill point challenges was to refute the claim made by some people that they didn’t want to be bothered by seeing peoples skills and particle effects going off in the open world.

There have been claims that it is annoying to see skills being used around towns/npcs/busy work locations, yet many skill point challenges are located right there in town. It’s a silly point to make (i admit) against an even sillier argument.

I mention costume brawls because that is the closest thing we have to open world duels yet there are little to no instances of abuse reported as a result of costume brawl. Yet you could make the exact same claims for potential harassment about costume brawl. The potential most definitely exists, but just because the potential exists doesn’t mean it is a common occurrence.

Finally, if you’re going to quote Colin, why don’t you use a quote from him about actual open world duels (linked on the firstt page) instead of extrapolating from an unrelated topic.

I would consider myself pretty bias towards implementing relatively unrestricted open world duels, but any suggestion to stick them only in WvW is a terrible idea. If you are in WvW you should be helping your server, not utilizing the only available location to duel. We already have the issue with WvW being the only real place for GvG. Add in duels and there would be very little actual WvWing going on in WvW.

mtpelion.4562:

Scrambles.2604:

yeah, i know. It’s not that i run the combat log to purposely avoid map chat, i just value the info in combat log more than the info in map chat, haha. If i had it my way i could view the combat log and chat log at the same time.

I have a chat tab called “Important Chat”. It only shows the combat log, system messages, Guild Chat, Party Chat, and Whispers.

cool, i’ll check it out. It’s been a while since i messed with it.

Keeping it on topic— Map chat has never really bothered me. As long as it’s not someone spamming the same thing or gold sellers, i don’t mind seeing people chatting about whatever. I don’t know, all those years of barrens chat has probably made me a little more tolerant.

Beldin.5498:

Scrambles.2604:

I too have found peace in running combat log instead of chat. Though i miss guild chat messages…but that’s a UI problem.

Not really .. you can simply turn of map chat why still seeing guild chat and whispers. Creating an extra tab for that is normally one of the things i always do in any MMO. Still after Everquest 2 this is the first MMO where i seldom felt the need to turn of map chats.

yeah, i know. It’s not that i run the combat log to purposely avoid map chat, i just value the info in combat log more than the info in map chat, haha. If i had it my way i could view the combat log and chat log at the same time.

Aidan Savage.2078:

MikaHR.1978:

Garrisyl.7402:

Algreg.3629:

well, if you think that behaviour makes you any better than those two, you are wrong.

Just playing the way I want, mate.

Griefing and harassing is excluded for “the way i want”

And being rude, offensive, and creating a toxic atmosphere for everyone else is not excluded? Hardly reasonable. Now, if I’m in the mood to kill champions, and Weeniedale champs happen to be the easiest for me to kill, it’s irrelevant if such an unwanted and unnecessary individual happens to be on the map. There is no designated and enforced “order” to do content in the game. If I want to kill the Troll champ while everyone’s at Boar, I have the god kitten ed right to do so. If I want to kill Oakheart while everyone’s at Bandit, I have that god kitten ed right to do so too.

You say griefing and “harassing” players. I say it’s playing however the hell I want within the rules, and having fun doing content whenever and wherever I choose to. That toxic player who happens to be on the map? They’re the one griefing and harassing players with the filth they vomit into chat.

yeah you can do what you want. But if you are intentionally killing champs out of order, that is pretty inconsiderate of others. You have every right to do it, sure, but you do so knowingly at the expense of others.

If you waited like 5 minutes you kill just kill the champ with everyone else and everyone wins.

it’s just like in WvW, you’re totally free to hop in that Golem at keep and cruise around. It’s pretty inconsiderate towards the person that made it to use later, but yeah play how you want.

hey i’ve been looking for a post like this. I was very excited when i saw they released the playable drum and i spent all of the 70 gold that i had on it, only to find out it didn’t play well.

There is indeed a delay when you hit the drum. I’ve had more success mashing buttons on it than trying to play structured beats (i too am a drummer, afk).

Foosnark.1784:

Oh, and I love exploring and finding stuff, whether it’s a sarcastic NPC or a beautiful view or a champion event.

And this thread made me realize I just keep map chat turned off. I wonder if that gives me a more positive outlook toward the game and its player base?

I too have found peace in running combat log instead of chat. Though i miss guild chat messages…but that’s a UI problem.

Otherwise, while i have seen vitriol in the QD map chat, more often than not, it’s either quiet or just the occasional “train?” followed by a map location. I see the same amount of “toxicity” in QD as i do in WvW, dungeons, and LS.

Foosnark.1784:

“PVE Dueling” is an oxymoron.

Anyway, I agree with the idea of limiting duels to specific arenas, or requiring a Dueler’s Flag or whatever — something you have to specifically opt in for.

One of the other MMOs I play has basically unrestricted dueling. Almost without fail, this is how it goes:

— I’m doing something else, like shopping at an NPC or picking up/finishing quests.
— Somebody runs up to me and challenges me to a duel, without saying anything first. (Consider what this would be like in real life — someone you’ve never seen before runs up and yells “fight me to the death!” while you’re using an ATM or something.)
-- There is a big, obnoxious effect that makes it obvious that I’ve been challenged. Whatever I’m doing with that NPC is interrupted.
— I decline the duel.
— There is an 80% chance the person will immediately challenge me again, running around in circles and jumping around like a 6 year old who just ate a bag of sugar.
— I sigh, /ignore the player (the only way to block duel requests), and decline again. They keep running around in circles for a while and then go pester the next player they see. Or in rare cases, they follow me around, bunny hopping the entire time, probably trying to goad me into dueling (but their chat is blocked).

This happens pretty much every time I play it. This isn’t something I want to see in GW2, which (A) has a much better PVE system where everything is cooperative, and (B) has a much better PVP system in the first place, and © is much better at maintaining the tone of the setting.

So, when was the last time someone tried to force you to costume brawl?

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

who complains about ascended? I remember a lot of resistance before it came out, but now that it’s here i didn’t realize there were any issues with it.

chokes on her soda

You’re joking right? Please tell me you’re joking…

Did you miss the vertical progression cdi thread a couple of months back that turned into an almost completely ascended discussion?

People still kitten about ascended in threads on here on what seems like a freaking weekly basis. Obviously the change on the 15th to account bound helped some (I think), but people are still kitteny about what it takes to acquire it

Edit: actually, thinking about it, there was just one in the crafting forum earlier in the week, griping about laurels being required in ascended crafting…

Maybe i just missed it. I remember before ascended armor was released, people would complain that it was going to ruin WvW. Now that it is released i haven’t seen any of that sort of discussion (because ascended armor had no effect on WvW).

I think they should restructure the WvW servers. The only purpose of servers now is for WvW server identity. They should dissolve the current servers and restructure them in an effort to balance out WvW populations/coverage

Maybe keep the t1 servers and merge lower tier servers into them and rename them. Or rename servers and allow players/guilds to move to new ones.

That’s the only real solution i’ve come up with. Feel free to poke holes in it, i aint scurred.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Phadde.7362:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Phadde.7362:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

And you think I would have still gotten that if I hadn’t

1) been anti-duel?
2) been actively participating in this thread?

Suuuuuure. If just the topic brings such actions out in people, I really don’t have much of a positive view of how those same people would use such a ‘tool’ in game.

Since when do we let vile people and trolls decide how the game should develop?

One word…… Ascended.

I don’t think that’s a sufficient answer.

Lol you may not, but there are threads and threads on that topic that support my answer quite nicely.

While it is true that we should not let trolls dictate our lives and how we play, it is also true that not always are player suggestions the best ones for the game either.

who complains about ascended? I remember a lot of resistance before it came out, but now that it’s here i didn’t realize there were any issues with it.

sternenstaub.8763:

I really don’t care as long as I will not get asked for a duel every second. If there is something like an auto duel block checkbox I would be ok. Also, not in cities.

The real problem I see, is the people who will cry for class balance in 1v1 situations. This will just make things worse and if there is an actual dueling feature, they would have the right to ask for that balance… That’s why I say no to dueling.

I hate to break it to you man. You may want to sit down for this. Players already complain about 1v1 balance. And players that have the patience already 1v1 in custom sPvP.

source: i play a thief. or just go to the profession balance subforum, lol.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

But the anti-dueling camp seems like they will not be satisfied with any additional features being added to the game unless there is absolutely no chance it will lead to abuse/harassment…which is completely unrealistic.

Of course, this probably depends on whether they see value in the feature being added, then the risk of harassment becomes a little more acceptable.

Some, yeah sure, of course. Some people have had some really terrible experiences with it and simply enjoy playing a game where they don’t have to deal with it. I can understand that they don’t want to see it implemented.

Beyond that, some people are GW1 vets, and it didn’t have dueling and did just fine. Some would like to see the continuance of that trend.

Just because its a common feature in ‘every other mmo’ does not necessarily mean it has to be part of all of them. Dare to be different.

Others just want to be sure that additional tools and such are implemented / adjusted to handle and curtail abuse of such a feature. And it would be be abused… just like the LFG is abused, and the TP is abused. Its sad, but it’s true that if people can find a way to abuse and exploit something, they will. Obviously there is no way to completely eliminate the possibility of harassment, but actions can be taken to keep it controlled.

I’m glad we both agree measures can be taken to reduce/deal with instances of harassment

I think we’ve all had bad run ins with other players. I’ve been fortunate enough to not experience any ill-effects of dueling. However, i don’t attribute the context of where my harassment occurred to being the reason for said harassment.

I don’t base my advocacy for duels based off GW1 or because “WoW also had it” but rather the intentions of the dev’s who said open world dueling would be cool, as well as an ingame environment that would be fantastic to take advantage of dueling in.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

Please be reasonable. You get one rude message and ah ha! This is exactly how thing will be when duels are implemented! This one person on the forums represents the entire GW2 community!

I’m not basing anything off a single rude, abusive pm. I am basing it off of:

-actions I have already seen in game
-actions I have seen in games that do have dueling implemented
-actions and comments of the ‘pro dueling’ crowd on these forums across a variety of threads, including this one
-the actions and comments of some of the general forum populace
-and now the addition of the pm

Honestly, based on just basic observation of actions and attitudes in our game, it is my opinion that our concern for the abuse of such a feature is quite justified.

Obviously, you feel otherwise. We’ll leave it at that.

But the anti-dueling camp seems like they will not be satisfied with any additional features being added to the game unless there is absolutely no chance it will lead to abuse/harassment…which is completely unrealistic.

Of course, this probably depends on whether they see value in the feature being added, then the risk of harassment becomes a little more acceptable.

I dont understand this idea that a new player seeing a zerg of players will turn the new player away from the game. Isn’t that the appeal of this game? Events with +20 players participating?

That was my first real positive memory from when i started playing GW2. I ran into a big group of players fighting the spider in QD and i thought it was awesome. That’s what i like to see in an MMO, other players actually doing stuff.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

I don’t know why you got the private message. If you’re asking me to speculate, i would guess it would have less to do with being anti-duel and more to do with being unwilling to make concessions. I don’t want that to sound rude cuz personally i got no issue with you. I mean sometimes i feel like i’m talking to a wall but i do respect your perseverance.

If forum posts were predictors of in game activity:

People would only play warriors
Everybody would have ~500 gold
Everyone would be expert TP flippers
WvW would be dominated by a small group of fully ascended geared people
sPvP would be a ghost town
no one would play thieves, but also thieves would be invincible.

So, you can keep referring to forum posts when it supports your argument, i wont stop you. But more often then not, the forums represent the thoughts of the same dozen people that post in the same thread, and not the players actually playing the game.

sigh

It’s like talking to a stump…

Whatever, carry on.

Please be reasonable. You get one rude message and ah ha! This is exactly how thing will be when duels are implemented! This one person on the forums represents the entire GW2 community!

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

DaShi.1368:

He’s already been reported, but I’m not going to post other people’s pms. If you choose not to believe me, that’s your choice. Dueling just brings out the worst in people. The way you treat others in this thread demonstrates this further.

I got one of these as well yesterday. He titled it ‘your post was infracted’ (no it wasn’t from a mod) and followed it up with ‘for being a kitten kitten carebear.’ I should have screenied it, sadly I did not and it has since been removed (as I did report his sorry kitten.

But hey, we’re just scared, whiny PvEers, blowing everything out of proportion and have no grounds for our concerns.

That sucks :/

Although, it kind of goes with what i’ve been saying all along. Jerk players don’t need duels to act like jerks. So, yes, you are still blowing the effects of duels out of proportion.

And you think I would have still gotten that if I hadn’t

1) been anti-duel?
2) been actively participating in this thread?

Suuuuuure. If just the topic brings such actions out in people, I really don’t have much of a positive view of how those same people would use such a ‘tool’ in game.

I don’t know why you got the private message. If you’re asking me to speculate, i would guess it would have less to do with being anti-duel and more to do with being unwilling to make concessions. I don’t want that to sound rude cuz personally i got no issue with you. I mean sometimes i feel like i’m talking to a wall but i do respect your perseverance.

If forum posts were predictors of in game activity:

People would only play warriors
Everybody would have ~500 gold
Everyone would be expert TP flippers
WvW would be dominated by a small group of fully ascended geared people
sPvP would be a ghost town
no one would play thieves, but also thieves would be invincible.

So, you can keep referring to forum posts when it supports your argument, i wont stop you. But more often then not, the forums represent the thoughts of the same dozen people that post in the same thread, and not the players actually playing the game.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

DaShi.1368:

He’s already been reported, but I’m not going to post other people’s pms. If you choose not to believe me, that’s your choice. Dueling just brings out the worst in people. The way you treat others in this thread demonstrates this further.

I got one of these as well yesterday. He titled it ‘your post was infracted’ (no it wasn’t from a mod) and followed it up with ‘for being a kitten kitten carebear.’ I should have screenied it, sadly I did not and it has since been removed (as I did report his sorry kitten.

But hey, we’re just scared, whiny PvEers, blowing everything out of proportion and have no grounds for our concerns.

That sucks :/

Although, it kind of goes with what i’ve been saying all along. Jerk players don’t need duels to act like jerks. So, yes, you are still blowing the effects of duels out of proportion.

Dueling doesn’t disrupt cooperation! I don’t know why you guys keeps saying that. It’s just like costume brawl but more fleshed out.

It increases player on player interactions and adds life to the world. It gives players an actual reason to interact with eachother, instead of mindlessly zerging world bosses as a large group of isolated individuals. Quite the opposite, it would encourage MORE cooperation. Players can test builds with eachother, exchange ideas, or help noobs learn how to pvp. All without having to zone to a completely different location.

You say it has no place in GW2, yet the Dev’s think it would be cool to add. I think if the dev’s would like to add it, that is pretty strong evidence that it would indeed fit right in to the game.

runeblade.7514:

How about this? No.

I’ll accept that if they sold Elder Dragon boss battle behind a gem shop purchase. Not an expansion, not a dungeon, just a single elder dragon boss. No one is allowed to fight it except people that bought the privilege to fight it.

NewTrain.7549:

Then clearly dueling isn’t that important a feature to you if you’re unwilling to pay for it (either through gold earned in game or real money).

I would pay for it (in gold, heh) but it would be a shame to have to pay for something that is a standard feature in other MMOs. It would be like have to pay to be able to send party invites.

Otherwise, it’s a good suggestion, even if several iterations of that idea have been suggested over and over. Despite our best efforts, it’s unfortunate that there is a contingent of people that will be against dueling until the potential for harassment is completely eliminated (which is impossible).

Tommyknocker.6089:

runeblade.7514:

If two consenting people want to duel in sPvP custom match, I will be there and interrupt their duel.

It is exactly like: If a dungeon party want to complete a dungeon, a griefer would come in and killing the final boss thus barring you from completing the dungeon and stopping you from getting the rewards.

So no, custom arena do not work, not now not ever.

So you admit to wanting to ruin the fun of two players that go out of their way to duel in an environment best suited to it. Yet you wonder why we think those that want open world PvE duels are 12 year olds.

Go figure…

I think Runeblade is just pointing out the flaws with the “just use custom sPvP” claim.

Custom sPvP was never designed to be a duel substitute. You either have to find an empty room that is vulnerable to intruders, or shell out 1600 gems for a custom room. All the while, you are restricted to pvp maps and your pvp character.

I love this idea that, if you have an attitude and are also in favor of dueling, you must be this model “12 year old troll” that we keep coming back to in this thread. This completely ignores the rudeness that radiates from the anti-duelers.

But i’m not going to assume character types of people just because they do or don’t want duels. Obviously, you don’t have to be in favor of duels to be a bully, as this thread has pointed out. Which goes with what i’ve been saying all along…

Jerk players are jerk players. They will be a jerk in every environment. They are the player that kicks you from dungeons, intentionally kills champs out of order to upset trains, calls out commanders like it’s their fault the zerg wiped, and even harasses players that refuse to duel.

Maybe if we could transcend these cheap stereotypes and come up with solutions to prevent abuse, we could get somewhere.

Tolmos.8395:

After the inclusion of Ascended gear to the game, I’m pretty much against the idea of dueling in anything except sPvP land. in sPvP, I know at least that we are on the same playing field when it comes to stats, and that a stat advantage had nothing to do with it. With ascended gear in PvE, I wouldn’t accept a single duel since I’d never known whether I’m about to fight a guy decked out in full purples just another exotic bum like myself.

I can understand that you would prefer not to duel. But does that mean we should disallow duels all together? Duels are for fun, not for balance or to prove who is better than who.

If you want a battle on even grounds, yes, that is exactly was sPvP is for….even if the game isn’t balanced for 1v1 fights. But either way, duels are for fun or even readily accessible practice so you can repeatedly throw your body at the full ascended guy until you eventually outplay and beat him.

If you’re trying to create a new argument — “No duels because ascended gear.” Well then i don’t really know what to say about that…haha.

Algreg.3629:

Scrambles.2604:

With your gun analogy, you’re saying guns can be used by bad people, so none of us should have guns. Even if they give out free, magic bullet proof vests with the guns that would also magically prevent the bad people from shooting you. But honestly, the analogies and equations are getting a little silly and are obfuscating the point.

that is not at all what I said, but I see, you are still doing your thang. And it is not possible to have a reasonable discussion with you. But whatever rocks your boat.

yeah but with your analogy (remember i said these are silly and just obfuscate the point, which is exactly what is happening), guns are duels and bullets is harassment. Yet we already have “bullets” in the game affecting people without having “guns.” If “bullets” are already an issue there is no reason to assume “guns” would make more “bullets.” The amount of “bullets” would remain constant.

Algreg.3629:

Scrambles.2604:

Algreg.3629:

Scrambles.2604:

Algreg.3629:

your arguments mostly boil down to A is bad, A is already in game, so even if B can be bad, it does not matter cause A is already there. But A bad and B bad is A+B bad.

If you care to read, no, personally I don´t care about trash talk, I ignore it, block it or report it if it is really offensive. But I play pvp a lot in all kinds of games and am used to the abusive types. And another thing: Pve exactly is not a competitive environment.

Well, a big part of forum complaints consist of stricly pve players feeling “forced” into pvp modes, so I guess there is actually a rather big portion of the player base that only enjoys pve. Personally, I will never understand this as I see myself as a GW2 player and that includes all content, still, pve only seems to be a big thing.

The very nature of duels requires consent. That is literally the opposite of being forced into something. The implication that you are forced to duel is completely unreasonable.

My argument boils down to – players tolerate A in the context of B, but do not tolerate A in the context of C. But A is still the same in both contexts.

and now you are taking lines from me and insert them into different, unrelated parts of my argumentation. Also, you resort to completely ignore that the duel request itself is less of a problem than things that may follow after decline, which has been clearly established earlier as one major issue. You are losing it now.

I was just speaking in equations just like you were, but whatever. Then you said some people feel “forced” to pvp, so i addressed that. But i guess i must be losing it.

A = Harassment
B = PvE
C = Duels

The duel request is fine. You decline and move on. If a player then starts harassing you, that is not a duel. That is harassment. Your issue is with harassment yet you blame duels.

EDIT – additionally, there is no evidence that duels would create more trolls, as your first equation suggested. I think it would be more reasonable to assume the same players that harass you in sPvP and in dungeons are the same that would harass you in duels. So, chances are the people you are worried about harassing you are already on your block list.

This isn’t reefer madness — the ability to duel wont suddenly turn decent folks into trolls.

you take the equation and twist it by redefining its “variables” inconsistently, then tell us “hey, look, it is just the same like this” – which is completely unrelated to the thing I expressed.

Then I said people complain about being forced into pvp all the time and used it as an indicator for a big pve-only community – which you doubted. Then you take that and twist it into “people are not forced into duels as they can decline them, so it is all cool”. Which was not those people´s concern to begin with.

Your next trick is telling us over and over again that we are not afraid of the actual duels, but of harassment. Which technically is true. But that is the same as saying “hey, you are afraid of the gun. That is stupid, guns are harmless, you need to be afraid of the bullets”. And you keep denying that harassment can be a – CAN BE, NOT HAS TO BE (which noone claimed) – likely consequence of declining a duel request.

Not to mention you keep ignoring every reason and concern you are given, reiterate how we have no meaningful reasons, hence our claims are trivial.

Sorry, that is just not cutting it. I guess you can reiterate the self-same things you have been reiterating in your last five posts now, but I think I stop wasting my time in this merry go round of yours.

if you don’t want to have a reasonable disscussion with me then maybe you should “decline” your next response. Ha! Problem solved. See how easy it is?

Why is it a trick to call harassment what it is? The context is superfluous, it’s only one type of person who will bully you, and they will do that however they can. The trick is to add things to the game, while being mindful of those bullies, and add additional tools to defend against them.

With your gun analogy, you’re saying guns can be used by bad people, so none of us should have guns. Even if they give out free, magic bullet proof vests with the guns that would also magically prevent the bad people from shooting you. But honestly, the analogies and equations are getting a little silly and are obfuscating the point.

DonQuack.9025:

Q- Cant you just create a custom arena and duel there?

yes for 1600 gems. A liiiiittle bit cost prohibitive. Not to mention you have to play on your PvP character, and not your WvW toon.

You can join an empty room but it wont remain empty for long.

But currently that is all we got and even the dev’s have acknowledged it is pretty awkward.

Atlas.9704:

Scrambles.2604:

I’ve acknowledged and refuted all your points. I’ve have yet to hear a good reason why being able to decline, or even block all duel requests won’t address the concerns people having with open world dueling.

I said earlier that you probably shouldn’t be able to duel in boss events. Even though two people fighting at low health would most likely just die—the problem kind of solves itself. But if it isn’t too difficult to implement i don’t see a real issue with preventing duels from boss events.

You can’t even accept the idea that the Mists would be a better suited place for it. You still think squawking about “ignore feature” will be the savior to your dream.

I’ve acknowledged now you are a broken record at this time who cannot contribute any more to this thread. I’m done with you, good bye.

Its not just me who can’t accept the idea that the mysts are best suited for this— Look at the video i posted on the front page. That’s Colin Johanson saying that custom PvP is an awkward workaround/substitute for open world duels.

Why wouldn’t “ignore feature” work? You keep saying that it wont with no reasons attached.

Atlas.9704:

Scrambles.2604:

Nothing says constructive discussion by making no points and then saying “GG.”

You see that’s because I’ve already made my points in earlier posts.
You just fail to either acknowledge them or even care.
So if that’s the case, then there’s no point to hearing your side.

I don’t mind duels, but they need to be in their proper place.
That place is the Mists.
If ANet actually did ever put them in the open world, then places like The Bane actually have a reason to exist now.

So let’s summarize this up:
Even though I find the PvP boring as heck in this game, I don’t think it should ever be removed entirely from the game. Anet gives it the short end, but once again not my problem. If they do improve on it, improve in the Mists, where it belongs.

So you see we’re two sides of a coin.
You are just getting defensive, snarky, possible passive/aggressive that we (PvE’ers) don’t like you possibly dueling in the middle of Shadow Behemoth or places like that.

I’ve acknowledged and refuted all your points. I have yet to hear a [good] reason why being able to decline, or even block all duel requests won’t address the concerns people having with open world dueling.

I said earlier that you probably shouldn’t be able to duel in boss events. Even though two people fighting at low health would most likely just die—the problem kind of solves itself. But if it isn’t too difficult to implement i don’t see a real issue with preventing duels from boss events.

Algreg.3629:

yeah yeah, if you don’t want duels you are a carebear and if you do want duels you’re a troll/griefer/bully. Derogatory names and implicit behaviors have been thrown around a lot in this thread. Responses to an argument isn’t an accurate predictor of in-game behaviors, though.

I haven’t called anyone names but i will not feel bad about calling your argument for what it is—trivial! If you can’t separate your emotions from your argument you have no place in a debate.

Saying custom sPvP is just fine and we should deal with not having duels is trivializing the request for duels, just the same. Not that it makes it right, but i’m not getting my feelings hurt about it, because i see that it is a baseless, uninformed claim.

If the context of the harassment is that big a factor for you, then i will call your claims trivial. If you can tolerate harassment in all other areas of the game, but can’t tolerate harassment in the context of duels, i will call your claim trivial.

Algreg.3629:

come on, till now, I did not agree with you, but you did not resort to cheap rhetorical parlor tricks. This is really beneath you.

sorry, the first part was sarcastic but it may not have come off that way. I don’t think people are carebears and i don’t care how you play.

I still maintain that the complaints against duels are unreasonable, trivial, and inconsistent. The people making this complaints are totally cool, in my book. We all play GW2 so i’m sure we have a lot in common. I can respect the person but i can’t also be expected to respect their argument. Especially when their argument refuses to see any perspective other than that of “the victim.”

Algreg.3629:

Scrambles.2604:

Algreg.3629:

your arguments mostly boil down to A is bad, A is already in game, so even if B can be bad, it does not matter cause A is already there. But A bad and B bad is A+B bad.

If you care to read, no, personally I don´t care about trash talk, I ignore it, block it or report it if it is really offensive. But I play pvp a lot in all kinds of games and am used to the abusive types. And another thing: Pve exactly is not a competitive environment.

Well, a big part of forum complaints consist of stricly pve players feeling “forced” into pvp modes, so I guess there is actually a rather big portion of the player base that only enjoys pve. Personally, I will never understand this as I see myself as a GW2 player and that includes all content, still, pve only seems to be a big thing.

The very nature of duels requires consent. That is literally the opposite of being forced into something. The implication that you are forced to duel is completely unreasonable.

My argument boils down to – players tolerate A in the context of B, but do not tolerate A in the context of C. But A is still the same in both contexts.

and now you are taking lines from me and insert them into different, unrelated parts of my argumentation. Also, you resort to completely ignore that the duel request itself is less of a problem than things that may follow after decline, which has been clearly established earlier as one major issue. You are losing it now.

I was just speaking in equations just like you were, but whatever. Then you said some people feel “forced” to pvp, so i addressed that. But i guess i must be losing it.

A = Harassment
B = PvE
C = Duels

The duel request is fine. You decline and move on. If a player then starts harassing you, that is not a duel. That is harassment. Your issue is with harassment yet you blame duels.

EDIT – additionally, there is no evidence that duels would create more trolls, as your first equation suggested. I think it would be more reasonable to assume the same players that harass you in sPvP and in dungeons are the same that would harass you in duels. So, chances are the people you are worried about harassing you are already on your block list.

This isn’t reefer madness — the ability to duel wont suddenly turn decent folks into trolls.

Atlas.9704:

Scrambles.2604:

That is a lot easier. I will head over to the PvP and WvW forums now where there is a clear consensus on exactly what fixes should be implemented for those modes.

Not my fault ANet treats your side like horribly treated children.

What about “skill challenges” littered throughout the world. (snip)

So what I’m reading here is “I have nothing more on this issue?”
Okay GG, have fun.
It is obvious that there’s no more constructive discussion coming from whatever you post after this.

personally i think PvP and WvW are both fine. This is coming from someone getting 2v1ed by TC and JQ. I will play PvP if i want to play my PvP character, but i enjoy my PvE/WvW character much more, especially in a PvP environment.

I do duel people in WvW, but i can’t duel my friends and guildies on my own server. That’s the people i want to duel the most. Yes, we can sPvP, but it’s not the same.

Nothing says constructive discussion by making no points and then saying “GG.”

Algreg.3629:

your arguments mostly boil down to A is bad, A is already in game, so even if B can be bad, it does not matter cause A is already there. But A bad and B bad is A+B bad.

If you care to read, no, personally I don´t care about trash talk, I ignore it, block it or report it if it is really offensive. But I play pvp a lot in all kinds of games and am used to the abusive types. And another thing: Pve exactly is not a competitive environment.

Well, a big part of forum complaints consist of stricly pve players feeling “forced” into pvp modes, so I guess there is actually a rather big portion of the player base that only enjoys pve. Personally, I will never understand this as I see myself as a GW2 player and that includes all content, still, pve only seems to be a big thing.

The very nature of duels requires consent. That is literally the opposite of being forced into something. The implication that you are forced to duel is completely unreasonable.

My argument boils down to – players tolerate A in the context of B, but do not tolerate A in the context of C. But A is still the same in both contexts.

Atlas.9704:

Scrambles.2604:

Then it’s suuuper convenient that you could just hit “decline” and move on with your life. It doesn’t have to be difficult, but you guys are making it difficult.

More like its “suuuuper convenient” for you to fix your two houses instead of tracking mud all over the third. Just get Anet to fix PvP and move on with your life.
It would probably be far more easier than what is being asked here.

Stop trying to cram your duels in this and claim “we’re making it difficult”.
You have two spots where it can be done, get it done, and be happy darn it.

It’s not about injecting PvP into the pristine PvE world. You can already compete with other in PvE with costume brawls, so it’s not JUST PvE.

To which I agree that the blasted toy is a nuisance, but we’re stuck with it.
So there’s no need to repeat the mistake once more.

It’s about giving players more to do in the open world besides farm.

Then help newbies in their leveling up, organize guild events, try to take down Teq, or just move on to another game until this has a Season Two of Living Story. You have plenty of options.

If anything it’s injecting life into the world.

It would be nice if players weren’t just standing around like zombies all the time when they are waiting for events.

To the first part that’s Doylak droppings and you know it.
Fix your blasted Mists and revitalize your world.
Because it surely would beat everyone just standing around in there like zombies.

As for open world zombie standers, duels aren’t going to be the cure there.
People will still stand around the Mystic Toliet or whatever they do.

Yeah, it’s much easier to make a vague request for non-specific revamps to 2/3s of the game instead of implementing a standard MMO feature that the dev’s said they would like to add, in order to cater to people who can’t treat a duel request the same way they treat party invites.

That is a lot easier. I will head over to the PvP and WvW forums now where there is a clear consensus on exactly what fixes should be implemented for those modes.

/sarcasm

What about “skill challenges” littered throughout the world. You essentially challenge an NPC to a duel, beat the NPC and get a skill point. This doesn’t hurt your eyes does it? Is the context of spell usage really that important? Spells are annoying only when they lack a distinct purpose?

That is one factor i haven’t been able to wrap my head around. If i cast meteor shower in a town that’s not cool, but if i cast meteor shower near enemies that’s OK. Seeing spells in one context is annoying but seeing the same spell in another context is fair game. Am i the only one that thinks this is a little silly?

Atlas.9704:

EvilSardine.9635:

So, PvP players somehow ruin PvE? What should I be saying about PvE players like you who come into WvW for their achievements and map completion? I have nothing against you guys.

Your post and this post:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

You know what I hate? PvE people in my WvW holding the team back because they are only there for AP and jumping puzzles. Yet I don’t demand you stop or leave because you have every right to be there.

Both describe another problem that ANet has with their game that still hasn’t been solved yet.
This notion that PvP’ers and PvE’ers will enjoy the same environment.
Though you two might not speak up about PvE folks taking up WvWvW spots, we’ve seen plenty that scream to the heavens about it.
Both sides have people that hate the notion. PvP’ers who are tired of the “carebears” mucking up their game, and PvE’ers who hate holding their nose just to get an accomplishment on Maps or that thing to make Legendaries.

ANet can not face the notion that maybe these two camps can’t get along so well.
Since we already have this friction in WvWvW, why add to it in the last place PvE folks have to themselves?
As said by someone else already, 2/3rds of the game is dedicated to PvP in some form.
Why is it so important to you that the remaining 1/3rd doesn’t have a PvP part?

Leave the open world alone.
Show ANet that the PvP section needs more work, that way you can have your duels and PvE’ers can have their place free of a game mode they don’t want .

Maybe you wouldn’t be so afraid of dueling if you could duel your buddies and become good at PvP. Just think of it like that.

Stop taking the game so seriously. It’s fine if you die to another player.

I can only speak for myself on these two points.
For the former, if I enjoyed PvP I would be there.
I do not so I do not wish to be there.
Just think of it like that.

I can purchase my own arena.
I can set up my own duels.
I can choose to participate in WvWvW “fight club” duels.
I choose not to because it is not fun for me.
Thus the only environment I enjoy is the open world for its lack of PvP entirely.

As for the second, it isn’t about seriousness. It is about enjoying the blasted game.
Some just don’t find PvP that thrilling, please accept the notion. Thank you.

Then it’s suuuper convenient that you could just hit “decline” and move on with your life. It doesn’t have to be difficult, but you guys are making it difficult.

It’s not about injecting PvP into the pristine PvE world. You can already compete with others in PvE with costume brawls, so it’s not JUST PvE. It’s about giving players more to do in the open world besides farm.

If anything it’s injecting life into the world. It would be nice if players weren’t just standing around like zombies all the time when they are waiting for events.

I would like to point out, if you made dueling ONLY available in WvW, that would be a bad idea. There is already the issue of GvG taking away from the war effort. I would hate to not be able to get into WvW because the queue is full of people utilizing the only area to duel.

WvW only – No
WvW and everywhere else – Yes

Beldin.5498:

DaShi.1368:

This thread (and the others like it) are exactly why there shouldn’t be open-world dueling.

If you are not in favor of dueling, here are some of the things you’ve been called by its supporters in this thread:

Lazy
Scared/cowardly
Delusional
Over-sensitive
Bitter
Ignorant
Stubborn Control-freaks
Whiners
Fear-mongerers
Angry
Foolish
Crazy
Have Trivial/Invalid concerns
Snippy
Magnet for trolls (love this one)
Liars
Anti-fun
Stupid
Selfish
Absurd
Having completely unbelievable opinions
Entitled
Unreasonable
Trolls/Bullies/Griefers (yes, seriously, and after all of the above was said about those against open-world dueling)
Asking to be harassed (Asking for it)
Petty
Silly
Haters
Over-emotional

And that’s only when they don’t just dismiss your opinions completely as not worthy considering.

These are the people that are telling us that there won’t be harassment and yet are being rude, insulting, and dismissive to those who simply don’t agree with them. If we can’t expect open world dueling’s biggest proponents to act maturely when discussing it, how can we expect any better from the trolls and griefers waiting for dueling to get their rocks off by harassing people who just want to play the game they bought as advertised? Since Guild Wars 1, Guild Wars has been about team play in pvp. Dueling is possible but has never been the focus of the game. It would be a major deviation, if this changed.

I saw earlier in this thread that custom arena is not a good option for dueling because it is costly. Yet, I never see dueling supporters making threads suggesting ways to improve the custom arenas or offering alternative suggestions to open-world dueling that are less intrusive to other players (opt-in is clearly not the magic fix here, or so many wouldn’t be against it). GW1 didn’t have open-world dueling and was better for it. However, it did offer dueling opportunities in guild halls. Why not request guild halls and a similar dueling feature there?

^^ Yeah, funny how the pro-duellers constantly show us why we don’t want it and don’t seem to see it themselfes.

yeah yeah, if you don’t want duels you are a carebear and if you do want duels you’re a troll/griefer/bully. Derogatory names and implicit behaviors have been thrown around a lot in this thread. Responses to an argument isn’t an accurate predictor of in-game behaviors, though.

I haven’t called anyone names but i will not feel bad about calling your argument for what it is—trivial! If you can’t separate your emotions from your argument you have no place in a debate.

Saying custom sPvP is just fine and we should deal with not having duels is trivializing the request for duels, just the same. Not that it makes it right, but i’m not getting my feelings hurt about it, because i see that it is a baseless, uninformed claim.

If the context of the harassment is that big a factor for you, then i will call your claims trivial. If you can tolerate harassment in all other areas of the game, but can’t tolerate harassment in the context of duels, i will call your claim trivial.

Algreg.3629:

Scrambles.2604:

Algreg.3629:

Scrambles.2604:

It’s like blaming an ATM because someone robbed you when you were pulling out cash. Should we get rid of ATMs because they attract robbers?

cute, a none sequitur in the wild. ATMs are necessary items and hence make it necessary to accept their inherent risks. Dueling is not.

As for that whole harassment debate: Yes, that is not necessarily a dueling thing. But dueling appeals to personality types that are also fond of harassment.

what makes you say that? There is no dueling in GW2 yet there is still harassment. I’ve experienced more harassment running dungeons in GW2 than in any PvP area of the game.

There is no evidence that duels = more harassment. This is just regurgitated forum hear-say. Even if it “seems” that way, correlation doesn’t equal causation and there are always more variables at play.

Someone mentioned harassment in SWTOR earlier, which is a free to play game. Well, if there are no barriers to entry in the game then there is nothing to prevent someone who lives only to harass people to do just that in the game with little worry about repercussions.

That may not be the reason for harassment, but we have just as much evidence that F2P is source of harassment as we do that duels are a source of harassment…aka no evidence, just conventional wisdom.

you will find harassment in all kinds of environment. If anything, that is no reason to add more opportunities, but rather keep them away.

Yes, you got me there, I am a little rascal and did not conduct an empiric research according to accepted sociological standards… you are really saying you have not seen pvp modes appealing to rather unpleasant personalities in your experience? Don´t get me wrong, I like pvp, but at the moment, we, who are familiar with the trash talking, random insults, immature little ragers, are actively choosing to enter these game modes.

Via duel options in pve content, we´d give them a vehicle to engage pve players – and no, a decline option does not solve this. If you are denying that many declined requests will be followed up by harassment und trash talk, you really cannot be from planet earth.

Just because a small subset of MMO players will use whatever they have available to harass, ABSOLUTELY doesn’t mean we should then limit the features we get in the game.

What kind of rational is this? Should Anet stop making LS, because it funnels more players to certain areas, increasing player on player interactions and thus increasing the frequency of occurrences of harassment? Instead, we should add features, but include measures to prevent/reduce the inevitable instances of harassment.

I’m not asking you to empirically sample the entire GW2 population, but i’m also saying a strong argument shouldn’t rely on anecdotes and shallow observations. The majority of prison populations are minorities, so is it safe to assume if your a minority your a criminal? No, absolutely not. There are always multiple variables at play and to single one out and say “this is the reason!” is absurd.

Lastly, you say duels will disturb “PvE” players. Who is a PvE player?? Just because you’re doing PvE content doesn’t mean you also don’t PvP or WvW. Yes, i’m sure there are a lot of strictly PvE players, but in my experience, most players dabble a little in all areas.

edit – Oh, yeah one more thing. Trash talk? You’re worried about trash talk in competitive games? Trash talk has been around as long as competition has existed, before video games. I realize there is a point where trash talk becomes verbal abuse, but that is what ignore/report is for. But if your goal is to eliminate “trash talk” you got a looooooong road ahead of you.

Good suggestions, Trogdor.

I think that restricting map chat just because you want to duel someone is a little harsh. It’s not like map chat has ever been a place a civil discussion. If someone is being rude in map chat, just put them on ignore, just like you would and probably do now.

It takes a lot of fun out of dueling or watching duels if you have to be quiet about it. I dunno…it seems a little too authoritative. “Keep quiet while you’re doing dueling…you don’t want to upset the fun police!”

Otherwise, i’ve always been cool with keeping duels away from busy work places….crafting/TP/Bank. I mean, it is a little silly. It’s not like players don’t already spam their abilities in those places all the time, but i guess some people can’t be bothered to see other players having fun or doing things in the world.

As far as fighting near mobs— the nature of duels themselves de-incentivizes this. You wouldn’t want to duel near mobs because you will get low health from the duel and the mob will kill you. Maybe you could lock out dueling if there is a boss event going on…but if you restrict duels in the open world too much there really isn’t a point to having them in the open world in the first place.

Level scaling is cool, too. I mean, if a lvl 80 player wants to fight low lvls, they could…you know…just decline the duel.

Regardless, unnecessary concessions — yes. But does it totally ruin what we traditionally know as open world duels? — no, not really.

Now that that’s settled, we can go back the first page where i was talking about how there is no easy, monetary incentive for Anet to prioritize dueling, compared to LS and adding skins to the Gem shop, so we will probably not see it for a long while anyway.

Phadde.7362:

sorudo.9054:

If you have to turn on the ability to be able to be requested to duel, you shouldn’t be affected. Dueling shouldn’t be available in the center of the main cities for the sake of people that for some reason can’t even bare to have people having fun dueling in their presence.

The arguments against dueling are either easily solved or petty.
The arguments for dueling are strong.

I was doing research today (yes, i know, that’s lame), and DCU used to have an auto-decline duels, but now they have a pvp-flag esque duel system. Basically, you flag yourself as able to be dueled and other people that want to duel can request you.

I thought that was a cool idea. Not so different then a auto-decline, except it only really puts you on the spot if you want to duel, not the other way around.