Guild Wars 2

Immensus.9732:

Mounts in this game are good just to make you look super-cool, apart from that theres no point because there are WPs everywhere and all clases have access to speed boost abilities so i would like to see them just for the visual satisfaction apart from that they are not necessary!

I think the fact that every character can pretty much maintain 100% swiftness up time is a good reason to add mounts.

Given the right utilities, traits, and weapons (especially with switching weapons out of combat) every class can maintain 100% swiftness. I think mounts would a nice, effortless way to maintain 100% swiftness without having to rearrange your traits, utilities, and weapons.

this would work ideally for solo play when your just traversing the terrain.

Every couple days someone new posts a request for duels. And every time that happens, the same dozen people creep out from their WoW PTSD support group meetings to say “no! no one wants duels, and everytime this is posted everyone is against the idea.”

While there is no way to prove what the majority wants, i will say the fact that it’s never the same people suggesting duels, but it’s always the same people speaking out against them is telling.

That being said, i think the negative aspects of duels are blown way out of proportion on these forums. I just made a character on DC universe online over the weekend. This game has duels and an option to block duels. I can happily report that i was not duel spammed, harassed, my general play wasn’t disrupted by others dueling. In fact, i even declined a duel, and that was the end of it…go figure!

based on these boards i would assume a handful of max levels would have trolled me for hours until i finally accepted their duel, which after losing, i would be subjected to various levels of harassment and name calling until i logged out…hrmm..

Butter.3024:

So for a newbie like me I should just keep champ farm until I got a good amount of wealth?

I’m at 460g atm

is 460g not a good amount of wealth?

I just sold off my collectibles and I am very satisfied sitting at around 60g, lol.

WvW, fractals/dungeons, living story, something that makes money, QQ on forums all seem to be the most popular choices

Sirendor.1394:

Scrambles.2604:

i think for a lot of people WvW is endgame.

You mean WvW is the only end-game that stays enjoyable. Yep you’re right. And yet, it’s the champion farms that give the best rewards. Does Anet want people to go back to the empty and repetitive PvE world?

i dunno, i find WvW rewarding in itself…

…in those rare instances where it plays like its supposed to, haha.

I love big zerg v zerg battles, but otherwise, i see no difference between a zerg train dropping keep lords and a champ train dropping champs. Except at least the WvW trains function like a contested zone and i can experience that wonderful tension of not knowing if i’m gunna get pounced on by an enemy.

I do find myself returning to PvE for living story, though.

style.6173:

@OP: Disagree. WvW is about fighting people from other servers. Dueling people from your own server has no place in this game mode.

I agree that dueling has no place in WvW. With limited slots available to participate in WvW, i’d hate to be in queue because a bunch of people are dueling and not helping their server.

That being said, the EB JP or overflow WvW servers that are being implemented are acceptable places for duels, because you are not taking up a spot that would otherwise be used to help your server progress in WvW.

clint.5681:

You wont be able to duel your server mates any other way. Now you can get mad at me and hope that one day ANET will fulfill your illogical request, or you can go to sPVP.

If you are serious about showing off your SKILL against someone and not how much unbalanced gear/effects you can stack on your character, you will go fight in sPVP.

Im sure there are plenty of us that wish their was a simple duel option but its not happening. Yes everyone stat combination isnt available in spvp, get over it.

I play WvW/sPVP so what are these “creditable reasons” that fails the sPvP argument for me?

I can’t imagine every person that wants to duel just wants to “show off.” That’s incredibly disingenuous. My main reason to duel is for “fun” but also it would be good practice. If i wanted to “show off” i would go to WvW and wreck newbies.

In an interview, one of the devs acknowledged that you can duel at the moment in sPvP with a custom match but also said they would like to add dueling at some point in the future.

I think mounts would be a welcome addition to this game with proper implementation.

Most of us have proven by this point that we can maintain swiftness boons for the purposes of travel. 100% uptime of swiftness via different traits, weapon swapping, using certain utilities, etc. So, why not give us a hassle free way to maintain 100% swiftness uptime, via mounts?

Regular swiftness boons would still have their place in group play, as i imagine mounts would give yourself swiftness where as your abilities would give yourself and others swiftness.

TL;DR I see mounts as a good replacement for having to manually upkeep swiftness boons for travel purposes.

I think the open world environments in this game are as fantastic as they are underutilized, and i would love to duel people in them.

I understand the reasons people are against dueling. But frankly, I don’t think those reasons hold enough weight to justify advocating against dueling.

-Duel request spams
-Duel combat interfering with normal play
-The “atmosphere” created around a new way to compete or a competitive environment in general.

I see and understand that those may be issues, but i don’t think they are significant enough. It’s basically potential flaws people find in the implementation of dueling and then exaggerate the impact it will have on their personal well-being in the game.

Suck it up and don’t duel if you don’t want to. Plenty of other people want to duel and take no issue with the fact you don’t want to duel.

Fortus.6175:

Scrambles.2604:

do you know if attacks against stealth players show up as hits in the combat log?

Do you know if elementalists have stealth?

Lets hope that you can answer this question correctly or it might be used agaisnt you to throw away any argument away on his basis(as good as it might be).

Currently Im at work so I wont be able to check that ingame, but even if it showed it on the chat, I will not resort to cheap cheats for “feedback” when I use the chat. Not only will I not have the combat log open for a fight, but in a fight of 3-4 people, damage is going both ways, and it is really hard to keep track of those things, specially since skills that hit multiple times display multiples feedbacks, not counting different damage sources on top of your own damage. I wont scroll 3 pages worth of chat to see if my random AoE hit the thief or not, so thats a silly counterargument of yours.

Next?

Eles can stealth for a few seconds underwater, not sure why that’s relevant.

I was just wondering, i cant test myself either. Sense you’re so adamant about stealth changes i assumed you were also educated in all that is stealth as well. Looks like i made an kitten outa u and me, lol.

Fortus.6175:

Trego.6182:

1) ok
2) already in game
3) how can you reveal real target if you dont see him?
4) stupidity check needed
5) ok
6) this remove all mechanic about stealth
7) dmg bonus maybe, cause i can see your vitals, you cant see me
8) r.i.p. logic, its same as normal heal or reamove all healing in invul. etc.
9) play a bit more to counter this point
10) this made me laugh 15mins by now, how can you dmg someone whos invisible to you and hopw for more dmg? maybe normal dmg is more than enough ( i see you then i can counter you)

Yep, someone else does need a stupidity check too….. Ever heard of AoE CC? AoE Damage? Some classes have untargetted CC, if said class “knew” the exact location of said thief and skillflly casted the CC skill (think of Mesmer GS #5, small cone, small radius, long CD, a waste to use wrongly) and that skill conected, the player should be rewarded. Perhaps there should be a “grace period” of maybe 1 second in which the thief will not get affected by this. Same for damage; 10%-20% maximun health taken as damage reveals them after the “grace period”. Use your common sense, man.

do you know if attacks against stealth players show up as hits in the combat log?

Doggie.3184:

Qaelyn.7612:

SHM.7628:

By 80 your build is pretty etched in stone.

Literally just yesterday I played four different builds on my mesmer trying to figure out which one I liked best. They were all very, very distinct in terms of skills and playstyle.

Maybe necro is different — haven’t played one yet — but I doubt it.

People get too hung up on concepts like ‘endgame’.

Try doing that with a Thief.

haha i’ve built different version of “all stealth” and “slightly less stealth”

Seriously though, i have different builds for different situations on my thief, but i don’t have a lot of different builds for the same situations, if that makes sense.

SHM.7628:

Scrambles.2604:

quaniesan.8497:

Is end-game supposed to be some sort of an enlightenment state to be looking forward to? Sort of like Diablo II where you got all the top rune words and hit 99, that’s boring because what else is there to do. You either start over with a different character or roam around killing stuff that yield no further better rewards. I’m glad there is continually new contents, new class of equipment to seek out.

i’ve always viewed it as two parts: leveling and end-game

Leveling is basically training. You learn about the world and your character progressively. As you level up you get access to more skills and i wider range of gameplay options. You also progressively open up dungeons (although, i think the trend in GW2 is to hit 80 then do dungeons) with the same idea of slowly learning them as you level up.

End-game is what happens after you’ve completed your “training.” At this point you should have a good idea of your character’s role, ability, and enough info about the game lore to understand the significance of in game events, stories, etc.

Thank you, I really think this was what i was feeling but was having a hard time putting it into words. Perfectly stated you hit the nail on the head. (you’re a genius)

I feel like hitting 80 should be the begining not the end. From a training perpective (like you said) I was probably at endgame around level 40 (tops) but had to grind out another 40 levels. why? i learned the mechanics. The whole thing was just very unfulfilling.

meh, to each his own, i suppose. I thought i knew my way around my ele at 80, but here i am still learning things. After 80, i view my progression skill wise, which is nice but not tangible like gear upgrades.

In WoW, end game progression was — PvP or raids and dungeons via stat upgrades. You need to complete this dungeon to get this gear in order to complete this dungeon, which will get you this gear, which you need to complete this raid, and so on. I haven’t played WoW in years so this might not be entirely accurate.

But in GW2 you have – PvP and Dungeons/events/open world what have you. But there is nothing that bars you entry from dungeons. Gear only mitigates the difficulty of dungeons, rather than determine what you have access to.

At this point with max stats (via exotics) you only progress in skill. In my experience, this has represented by my gradual transition from defensive gear to glass cannon gear. As i get better, i rely on my stats less for defense, as i get better and dodging and using utilities.

Personally, i have always been about PvP. I enjoy WvW when i can actually get in, and i spend time outside of WvW killing time, doing living story (i enjoy checking out the content as opposed to checking off achievements), or preparing myself for future WvW endeavors.

sentries are there to alert you of enemy activity when they get attacked. If i see swords on a sentry i assume the closest supply camp is about to get swords as well.

You can also attack enemy sentries solo to feign what could be perceived as a larger attack.

Not saying they shouldn’t do more, but they also don’t do nothing.

quaniesan.8497:

Is end-game supposed to be some sort of an enlightenment state to be looking forward to? Sort of like Diablo II where you got all the top rune words and hit 99, that’s boring because what else is there to do. You either start over with a different character or roam around killing stuff that yield no further better rewards. I’m glad there is continually new contents, new class of equipment to seek out.

i’ve always viewed it as two parts: leveling and end-game

Leveling is basically training. You learn about the world and your character progressively. As you level up you get access to more skills and i wider range of gameplay options. You also progressively open up dungeons (although, i think the trend in GW2 is to hit 80 then do dungeons) with the same idea of slowly learning them as you level up.

End-game is what happens after you’ve completed your “training.” At this point you should have a good idea of your character’s role, ability, and enough info about the game lore to understand the significance of in game events, stories, etc.

i think for a lot of people WvW is endgame.

Fighting against thieves got a lot easier after i rolled one. You don’t have to see them to know where they’re going. Maybe i just suck but my thief is never an “instant-win.” I don’t even bother fighting guardians now, haha.

The only suggestion i can offer is to display dmg numbers when you hit a stealthed thief. It’s not hard to hit a thief with AoE, but if i’m chasing where i think the thief is and spamming 1 it just feels like i’m swinging at the air. If i connect it would be nice to see damage numbers.

I haven’t check my combat log, but surely that would indicate when you damage a stealthed thief, right?

sorudo.9054:

i do wonder, why do ppl want to ruin it for PvE players while you have WvW?
i mean, if duels are possible there then i don’t mind, it doesn’t affect me since i barely go there at all.

so instead of people dueling in vast, empty open world environments, you think it would be better for people to sit around and duel in WvW, which at least on my server, generally has a queue.

That is beside the point though, because dueling will not “ruin it for PvE players.” However, your suggestion would actually ruin it for WvW players.

i agree with OP, but this problem isn’t limited to eles.

When i played WoW, there was an addon that let you set up different armor/weapon sets that you could assign to a hotkey, that you could switch to out of combat. I would love something like this to make it easier to switch weapons/armors out of combat.

i don’t have a problem with stacking on the spider boss, in theory.

But in practice, every group i’ve been in that has insisted on stacking ends up wiping until we disband. Which i’ve always thought was absurd, because it’s not like the spider boss is hard without stacking.

Of course this has just really been a grouping issue, and i’ve had bad luck with my groups. This issue could be mitigated by forming my own group or whatever.

But overall, i think i’ve had more wipes/disbands as a result of failed attempts at exploits/short cuts rather than failures in group play.

Sleel.8365:

Scrambles.2604:

Sleel.8365:

Scrambles.2604:

they are adding open world dueling at some point. It’s mentioned in a interview and i will dig it up if anyone likes…i try to post it everytime a duel thread gets made…which is like once a week.

As for inspect, i’m all for it, but blablabla elitism blablabla this argument never goes well. It boggles my mind how ‘end game’ in GW2 is collecting various exotic gears but no one can look at them beyond seeing your character avatar, and then people argue to keep it that way.

Not wanting inspect has nothing to do with elitism. It has to do with it’s none of your kittening business. Anymore then it’s your right to walk into my house and look through my closet. You wanna know, you can ask or kitten off.

GW2 is a MMO that focuses on group effort and cooperation, so i do have a vested interest in at least being aware of what type of gear you have. And looking at your gear in a teamwork oriented game is not even close to going into your house and looking in your closet. If your that bothered by other players “intruding” on you then you might be more comfortable in a single player game.

I hear the argument “you want to know, just ask!” all the time and while that is a great work around, it doesn’t take into account afk players or people that cant be bothered to share their gear.

/inspecting someone’s gear doesn’t effect the other player in any way, as opposed to asking them about their gear, which not only disrupts the player, but it requires two individual player actions to accomplish what could be done unobtrusively with /inspect.

It does take into account players that just can’t be bothered to answer. Ignoring the ask is a default sod off. Unless a person wants to share info on their toons/builds, it’s none of your kitten business.

I’d love to hear how you discern between someone who is ignoring you and who is afk. Don’t automatically assume malice to that which can be attributed to negligence.

That doesn’t matter though, because if i /inspect someone, they have no way of knowing if i actually inspected them or didn’t. It’s out of sight out of mind and completely harmless.

I don’t get this “none of your business.” It’s a game! There’s no need to be embarrassed or secretive about your gear, jeez.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

especially since they said they’re going to add it, and you can already do it in sPvP.

No they didn’t, they said they “like to add it at some point”. You automatically assumes that confirms it. Besides, they confirmed many things that never came to be.

Scrambles.2604:

Trying to advocate against duels because it increases “chat spam” or “1v1 balance posts on the forums” is unreasonable, .

When pvp elemenents are added to PvE, it will go beyond balance posts. Anet will actually have to balance it, otherwise duelling would be broken. And THIS is my main problem, all that map chat spam I don’t care about, I’ll just block them. It’s the PvP balance changes that I don’t want in PvE.

Scrambles.2604:

no i see it as, if you don’t like dueling, don’t duel. Simple as that.

The worst type of argument someone can make. Every form of criticism can be waved of by that.
Don’t like ascended gear? don’t farm it.
Don’t like dungeons? Don’t do them.
Don’t like Fractals? Don’t do them.

I know the perfect solution for every problem in this game! Why not stop playing it? All problems will magically disappear!

Dueling requires consent from both parties, so if you don’t ever want to duel you don’t have to. If it was open world pvp free for all, i could see how you could take issue. But you have to accept a duel, and if you don’t want to duel then don’t accept.

I don’t understand the other things you wrote…if you don’t want to do dungeons, don’t do dungeons? What i’m getting from you is, “i don’t want to run dungeons, and you shouldn’t be allowed to run dungeons, because dungeons negatively impact the game.”

You know what buddy? You are absolutely right about everything.

Goodbye.

haha, it’s just like dueling— if you don’t want to debate, then you don’t have to

I will say, i was looking through my post history to get that link to the anet interview, and i noticed a lot of quotes and back and forths between the two of us, haha, i got a kick out of that.

No worries, we just find ourselves on the opposite sides of different issues, but we can take solace in the fact that we both probably post on these boards too much

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

especially since they said they’re going to add it, and you can already do it in sPvP.

No they didn’t, they said they “like to add it at some point”. You automatically assumes that confirms it. Besides, they confirmed many things that never came to be.

Scrambles.2604:

Trying to advocate against duels because it increases “chat spam” or “1v1 balance posts on the forums” is unreasonable, .

When pvp elemenents are added to PvE, it will go beyond balance posts. Anet will actually have to balance it, otherwise duelling would be broken. And THIS is my main problem, all that map chat spam I don’t care about, I’ll just block them. It’s the PvP balance changes that I don’t want in PvE.

Scrambles.2604:

no i see it as, if you don’t like dueling, don’t duel. Simple as that.

The worst type of argument someone can make. Every form of criticism can be waved of by that.
Don’t like ascended gear? don’t farm it.
Don’t like dungeons? Don’t do them.
Don’t like Fractals? Don’t do them.

I know the perfect solution for every problem in this game! Why not stop playing it? All problems will magically disappear!

Dueling requires consent from both parties, so if you don’t ever want to duel you don’t have to. If it was open world pvp free for all, i could see how you could take issue. But you have to accept a duel, and if you don’t want to duel then don’t accept.

I don’t understand the other things you wrote…if you don’t want to do dungeons, don’t do dungeons? What i’m getting from you is, “i don’t want to run dungeons, and you shouldn’t be allowed to run dungeons, because dungeons negatively impact the game.”

sorudo.9054:

open world duels will not just be bad within the duel world, but also in PvE places in general.
you think it’s a good idea, guess again.
imagine you just want to play around in queensdale, no farming/zerging/whatever but just have a great time.
now a player wants to duel, you decline.
what are the options when the player keeps on challenging you?
block: useless because the player is still there.
using a waypoint: yeah, try to repeat that a few hundred times, you can kiss your gold goodbye.
ignore the player: tried that so many times, kill steal comes in mind where they kill every single enemy close bye in one hit just to annoy you.

so is dueling a good idea in an open PvE world, nope, not even close.
if you want to duel there are plenty of ways to do it, if you want it added in a more controlled manner, have an arena to fight it off.

Again, more hyperbole—this idea that, given the ability to request a duel, everyone will automatically single you out and chase you down with duel spams until you log out. Yes, it’s possible, but not likely, and definitely not a good reason to disallow it.

Do you think they should disallow group invites because a troll is free to constantly spam you with party invites? It’s possible but how often does it really happen?

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

Its starting to smell like perceptual bias in this place

Yep and it’s coming from you.
You like duelling so that means it’s perfect, will cause no problems and should be added regardless of what everyone else thinks.

no i see it as, if you don’t like dueling, don’t duel. Simple as that.

Trying to advocate against duels because it increases “chat spam” or “1v1 balance posts on the forums” is unreasonable, especially since they said they’re going to add it, and you can already do it in sPvP.

If your claims were true then you should already be experiencing it. Maybe with the exception of open world map chat, but assuming that dueling will automatically turn every map chat into a spam fest is baseless.

eisberg.2379:

Scrambles.2604:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

And good luck finding any competitive game where people don’t complain about 1v1 balancing

In PvE no one complains about 1v1, and it should stay that way.

Scrambles.2604:

I hope you see that your issues are mostly personal preferences and not necessarily negative, or even effects directly attributed to dueling.

Lol what? That makes zero sense on infinite levels.

Eisberg made an excellent argument and you obviously can’t find a way to counter it. Duelling is a terrible idea for a game that is based on teamwork and cooperation. And wether or not you want to believe it, it has negative effects.

the “effects attributed to dueling”—being chat spam, 1v1 balance complaints, and bad behavior in general—already exist without dueling. Saying that dueling will only increase the frequency of these issues is baseless hyperbole. All when these issues could be easily avoided, if you even perceive them to be issues, with the ignore feature.

It is far from baseless hyperbole when we in fact experienced it ourselves in past games.

Except for the fact in my and so many other people’s experience, the ignore feature doesn’t fix the problem completely, not even close. Putting someone on ignore makes it so you can’t defend yourself against people trash talking you on the public chat, that is one reason why ignore feature doesn’t come close to fixing the issues. And I have seen this happen so so many times.

Like I said, PvP breeds bad behavior, not in everyone, but in enough. And putting a PvP component in a PvE world brings that bad behavior to that place, more so than what is there already.

It’s funny, i’m guessing we both played SWTOR and WoW, both have different perceptions on the effects of dueling…and i’m going to guess only one of us actually enjoys dueling… Its starting to smell like perceptual bias in this place

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

Saying that dueling will only increase the frequency of these issues is baseless hyperbole.

Wow.. just wow.

lol, do YOU have a crystal ball? You can tell the future and know that dueling automatically turns normal people into bad mannered trolls?

Or do you think it’s more likely the people that already abuse whatever they can get thier hands on will be the ones to abuse dueling?

You are the one here who thinks he can read the future, don’t turn the tables now

hey homie i posted the link as you requested. Looks like i’m the only person in this thread that can back up my claims with real evidence.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

Saying that dueling will only increase the frequency of these issues is baseless hyperbole.

Wow.. just wow.

lol, do YOU have a crystal ball? You can tell the future and know that dueling automatically turns normal people into bad mannered trolls?

Or do you think it’s more likely the people that already abuse whatever they can get thier hands on will be the ones to abuse dueling?

here ya go—

basically “you can already duel in a round-about way via sPvP, but we would like to add open world dueling at some point”

edit its at 14:11 i don’t think the timestamp worked

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

i’m confident enough in the argument i’ve already made that i think readers of this discussion would agree that your issues are not only personal, but completely manageable in the event that dueling was added

—Cannot compute—

Scrambles.2604:

(which it will be).

Oh really? Do you mind if I borrow that crystal ball of yours?

haha, my crystal ball called “google.” i’ll edit this with a link in one sec.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

And good luck finding any competitive game where people don’t complain about 1v1 balancing

In PvE no one complains about 1v1, and it should stay that way.

Scrambles.2604:

I hope you see that your issues are mostly personal preferences and not necessarily negative, or even effects directly attributed to dueling.

Lol what? That makes zero sense on infinite levels.

Eisberg made an excellent argument and you obviously can’t find a way to counter it. Duelling is a terrible idea for a game that is based on teamwork and cooperation. And wether or not you want to believe it, it has negative effects.

the “effects attributed to dueling”—being chat spam, 1v1 balance complaints, and bad behavior in general—already exist without dueling. Saying that dueling will only increase the frequency of these issues is baseless hyperbole. All when these issues could be easily avoided, if you even perceive them to be issues, with the ignore feature.

eisberg.2379:

Scrambles.2604:

eisberg.2379:

Scrambles.2604:

I hope you see that your issues are mostly personal preferences and not necessarily negative, or even effects directly attributed to dueling.

I would like to think /ignoring or auto-decline duels would solve most of your problems. And good luck finding any competitive game where people don’t complain about 1v1 balancing

edit; haha, i actually went back and looked for your “negative effects” and i didn’t think that 1-3 list was actually what you were referring to.

The bleed over in the public chat, to the point that it takes over the public chat making it harder to communicate for PvE reasons is a negative effect and is directly related to dueling.

Ignoring doesn’t stop them from still being annoying to you, don’t need a chat to be annoying, plus for how often I have seen people trash talk other players on the public chats because the other player didn’t want to duel happened very very often.

And I said an increase in complaints on 1vs1 balancing. I understand there is some right now, but add dueling and those complaints will happen even more, exponentially more.

I hope you see that your issues are mostly personal preferences and not necessarily negative, or even effects directly attributed to dueling.

I must have made some good points if that is all you can say, and nothing of real value to refute it. But I’ll give you a benefit of the doubt, some people like to be abused, some people like to see PvE channels being taken over by PvP trash talk and making it harder for PvE communication.

But your logic fails hard. When people are trash talking over the public chat channels because they lost or won in duel, that is someone how now directly attributed to dueling. That makes absolutely not logical sense. When an increase of complaint for 1 vs 1 balancing happens because of dueling, that has nothing to do with dueling? Again, makes no logical sense. When people start to abuse/annoy you because of dueling, it is not directly related to dueling?

Your logic makes no sense.

there is nothing of value to refute

i’m confident enough in the argument i’ve already made that i think readers of this discussion would agree that your issues are not only personal, but completely manageable in the event that dueling was added (which it will be).

eisberg.2379:

Scrambles.2604:

I hope you see that your issues are mostly personal preferences and not necessarily negative, or even effects directly attributed to dueling.

I would like to think /ignoring or auto-decline duels would solve most of your problems. And good luck finding any competitive game where people don’t complain about 1v1 balancing

edit; haha, i actually went back and looked for your “negative effects” and i didn’t think that 1-3 list was actually what you were referring to.

The bleed over in the public chat, to the point that it takes over the public chat making it harder to communicate for PvE reasons is a negative effect and is directly related to dueling.

Ignoring doesn’t stop them from still being annoying to you, don’t need a chat to be annoying, plus for how often I have seen people trash talk other players on the public chats because the other player didn’t want to duel happened very very often.

And I said an increase in complaints on 1vs1 balancing. I understand there is some right now, but add dueling and those complaints will happen even more, exponentially more.

I hope you see that your issues are mostly personal preferences and not necessarily negative, or even effects directly attributed to dueling.

I hope you see that your issues are mostly personal preferences and not necessarily negative, or even effects directly attributed to dueling.

I would like to think /ignoring or auto-decline duels would solve most of your problems. And good luck finding any competitive game where people don’t complain about 1v1 balancing

edit; haha, i actually went back and looked for your “negative effects” and i didn’t think that 1-3 list was actually what you were referring to.

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Ok, true, to an extent, the game is won on a macro-scale. However, I enjoy and play the game on a micro-scale. I get much more pleasure out of my performance than I do out of my server’s performance. And more pleasure out of my server’s performance than I do out of how our ranking changes.

No one will ever convince me that 5-12% damage increase doesn’t matter at the micro-scale.

Edit: I originally included this but deleted it, but I think it helps make my point. The argument people make in support of Ascended gear can also be made about class balance. Based on the macro argument it shouldn’t matter if warriors are OP, because both sides have them. But people QQ all the time (and in the WvW forum) and nobody ever tries to make that argument. Why?

I think skill will always win out over stats. Whenever i lose a 1v1 in WvW (which is almost NEVER because someone usually joins the fight from my side or the enemies) i can attribute it to something i did wrong, or something they did right, but not “they only won because they put out 10% more dmg.”

But again, this is meaningless in the overall scope of WvW. My 1v1 loss is a droplet of water in the 10 gallon bucket of WvW, but i think you understand this.

I’m not sure about your warrior comment, tbh. Everybody has access to ascended, but only warriors have access to warriors?

But if individuals don’t matter, it only matter’s that each server has access to the same number of warrior. Anyway, sorry I engaged. I honestly am sick of this conversation. You win anyway.

haha i wasn’t trying to “win” but ok. I must be wearing ascended and not know it!

eisberg.2379:

Scrambles.2604:

eisberg.2379:

Scrambles.2604:

I’m with you OP. I’ve seen a lot of people opposed to dueling perform incredible mental gymnastics to try to argue against a feature that wouldn’t effect them if they simply chose not to duel.

Yes, because people are just imagining the effects that dueling had on other games that had it /rolleyes

I know by “other games” you mean WoW, but SWTOR also had dueling and “duel spamming” was never an issue i encountered or read about on the forums.

Duel spamming is an issue that is parroted on the forums because it’s hard to disprove someone’s anecdotal evidence of “this guy followed me around for months on end just duel requesting me!”

In reality, the people that really want to duel will message you or simply accept your decline, and the people that “duel spam” absolutely love the fact that their efforts have traumatized you so severely that you cannot even play a different game without thinking back to that harrowing experience.

Wasn’t just talking about duel spamming, talking about all the negative effect dueling has on a game, and yes it even has a negative effect on SWTOR, played that game and saw the negative effects it had as well, found the negative effects far out weigh any positives.

what are all the negative effects?

TooBz.3065:

Ok, true, to an extent, the game is won on a macro-scale. However, I enjoy and play the game on a micro-scale. I get much more pleasure out of my performance than I do out of my server’s performance. And more pleasure out of my server’s performance than I do out of how our ranking changes.

No one will ever convince me that 5-12% damage increase doesn’t matter at the micro-scale.

Edit: I originally included this but deleted it, but I think it helps make my point. The argument people make in support of Ascended gear can also be made about class balance. Based on the macro argument it shouldn’t matter if warriors are OP, because both sides have them. But people QQ all the time (and in the WvW forum) and nobody ever tries to make that argument. Why?

I think skill will always win out over stats. Whenever i lose a 1v1 in WvW (which is almost NEVER because someone usually joins the fight from my side or the enemies) i can attribute it to something i did wrong, or something they did right, but not “they only won because they put out 10% more dmg.”

But again, this is meaningless in the overall scope of WvW. My 1v1 loss is a droplet of water in the 10 gallon bucket of WvW, but i think you understand this.

I’m not sure about your warrior comment, tbh. Everybody has access to ascended, but only warriors have access to warriors?

Sirendor.1394:

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Berelious.3290:

I still find it ironic that people use WvW as an excuse against Ascended equipment. They cite statistics, percentages, and such, but fail to remember one important thing… and that is that the one on one encounters do not matter in a mode of play that’s designed around group siege warfare. In the end, in WvW, the server with the biggest zerg wins.

False. Havoc squads can impact the capabilities of a team severely. If your massive Zerg is in EBG then you can have enemies slipping in to take down your keeps very quickly in the borderlands. Taking supplies is always devastating towards holding fortifications, and a small group nabbing frogs or dredge can create a nuisance.

And even then. Why do you think commanders ask for might and boons before a big engagement? Because that extra DPS can devastate a Zerg. Knockback, zone control, and all these things can break up ranks and make a Zerg much less ineffective when you’re blasting your enemy targets allover the place preventing them from stacking in place.

Zerg play is very key, but do not underestimate the small things. Don’t underestimate damage percentages, don’t underestimate extra might, don’t underestimate the power of casting stealth, invisibility, portals, blinds, aegis, and all these things. They can change a battle completely. I for example tend to carry ballista prints so that when my server is capping SMC and the enemy is holding up, we can throw down ballistas at the entrances and use a guardian to keep them trapped inside while we block out their push from the outside and prevent any dead from coming inside. What about tapping keeps to prevent enemy reinforcements from returning as quickly? That’s highly key too.

Seconding this. I’m part of a havoc squad, rebel guild, ‘troll society’ and it’s extremely important to have the best gear available there. We often fight up to 3 times as many enemies (3v9 yesterday, finished them all).

What I think WvW needs:

• Option 1: Downscale ascended to exotic stats.
• Option 2: Let us play WvW-Only characters, that can have BiS gear and level 80 without cost.
• Option 3: Upscale exotic armour in WvW to ascended.
• Option 4: Delete PvE gear from WvW, allow players to get their PvE skins for free and unlimited from a database.

I feel like your organized havoc squad would still have the same effect on overall PPT if you were running around in all exotics. Organization, teamwork, and experience play a much more significant role than stats.

Against ignorant zerglings we would most probably… against other organised havoc squads that did have exotics… don’t think so.

no offense, but that sounds like a cop-out.

“dang! that other havoc group only beat us because they have ascended!!”

I’m sure if that situation actually happened, there would be a lot more significant things that determined the outcome of that fight. And more importantly, regardless who won the groupvgroup fight, the effect on PPT would still be non-existent or insignificant.

I disagree. It only sounds like a cop out because you think ascended gear doesn’t matter.

in the big picture of WvW, losing a group v group fight because a group had ascended gear isn’t going to matter when your server’s primetime zerg rolls through the borderland that evening.

So everyone keeps telling me. You will never convince me, I will never convince you. One of us in wrong. Meh.

But in WvW, an individual is insignificant and undesirable.

That’s where you and me disagree.

The most significant effect an individual can have on the outcome of a WvW is simply by scouting and calling out enemy zerg movements, which has nothing to do with stats.

Stats are a significant factor, but least significant after—server population/coverage, effectiveness of the commander, class distribution, money invested in upgrades, seige placement….i hope you see where i’m going. Stats matter, but there are many many other things that happen in WvW that matter so much more that stat advantage pales to the point of insignificance.

eisberg.2379:

Scrambles.2604:

I’m with you OP. I’ve seen a lot of people opposed to dueling perform incredible mental gymnastics to try to argue against a feature that wouldn’t effect them if they simply chose not to duel.

Yes, because people are just imagining the effects that dueling had on other games that had it /rolleyes

I know by “other games” you mean WoW, but SWTOR also had dueling and “duel spamming” was never an issue i encountered or read about on the forums.

Duel spamming is an issue that is parroted on the forums because it’s hard to disprove someone’s anecdotal evidence of “this guy followed me around for months on end just duel requesting me!”

In reality, the people that really want to duel will message you or simply accept your decline, and the people that “duel spam” absolutely love the fact that their efforts have traumatized you so severely that you cannot even play a different game without thinking back to that harrowing experience.

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Berelious.3290:

I still find it ironic that people use WvW as an excuse against Ascended equipment. They cite statistics, percentages, and such, but fail to remember one important thing… and that is that the one on one encounters do not matter in a mode of play that’s designed around group siege warfare. In the end, in WvW, the server with the biggest zerg wins.

False. Havoc squads can impact the capabilities of a team severely. If your massive Zerg is in EBG then you can have enemies slipping in to take down your keeps very quickly in the borderlands. Taking supplies is always devastating towards holding fortifications, and a small group nabbing frogs or dredge can create a nuisance.

And even then. Why do you think commanders ask for might and boons before a big engagement? Because that extra DPS can devastate a Zerg. Knockback, zone control, and all these things can break up ranks and make a Zerg much less ineffective when you’re blasting your enemy targets allover the place preventing them from stacking in place.

Zerg play is very key, but do not underestimate the small things. Don’t underestimate damage percentages, don’t underestimate extra might, don’t underestimate the power of casting stealth, invisibility, portals, blinds, aegis, and all these things. They can change a battle completely. I for example tend to carry ballista prints so that when my server is capping SMC and the enemy is holding up, we can throw down ballistas at the entrances and use a guardian to keep them trapped inside while we block out their push from the outside and prevent any dead from coming inside. What about tapping keeps to prevent enemy reinforcements from returning as quickly? That’s highly key too.

Seconding this. I’m part of a havoc squad, rebel guild, ‘troll society’ and it’s extremely important to have the best gear available there. We often fight up to 3 times as many enemies (3v9 yesterday, finished them all).

What I think WvW needs:

• Option 1: Downscale ascended to exotic stats.
• Option 2: Let us play WvW-Only characters, that can have BiS gear and level 80 without cost.
• Option 3: Upscale exotic armour in WvW to ascended.
• Option 4: Delete PvE gear from WvW, allow players to get their PvE skins for free and unlimited from a database.

I feel like your organized havoc squad would still have the same effect on overall PPT if you were running around in all exotics. Organization, teamwork, and experience play a much more significant role than stats.

Against ignorant zerglings we would most probably… against other organised havoc squads that did have exotics… don’t think so.

no offense, but that sounds like a cop-out.

“dang! that other havoc group only beat us because they have ascended!!”

I’m sure if that situation actually happened, there would be a lot more significant things that determined the outcome of that fight. And more importantly, regardless who won the groupvgroup fight, the effect on PPT would still be non-existent or insignificant.

I disagree. It only sounds like a cop out because you think ascended gear doesn’t matter.

in the big picture of WvW, losing a group v group fight because a group had ascended gear isn’t going to matter when your server’s primetime zerg rolls through the borderland that evening.

So everyone keeps telling me. You will never convince me, I will never convince you. One of us in wrong. Meh.

Ascended gear is a pretty significant and desirable upgrade for an individual. But in WvW, an individual is insignificant and undesirable.

Ascended gear is significant on a micro scale but WvW functions on a macro scale, so the overall effects of people having ascended gear, when roughly the same % of the enemy server population has ascended gear, is insignificant.

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Berelious.3290:

I still find it ironic that people use WvW as an excuse against Ascended equipment. They cite statistics, percentages, and such, but fail to remember one important thing… and that is that the one on one encounters do not matter in a mode of play that’s designed around group siege warfare. In the end, in WvW, the server with the biggest zerg wins.

False. Havoc squads can impact the capabilities of a team severely. If your massive Zerg is in EBG then you can have enemies slipping in to take down your keeps very quickly in the borderlands. Taking supplies is always devastating towards holding fortifications, and a small group nabbing frogs or dredge can create a nuisance.

And even then. Why do you think commanders ask for might and boons before a big engagement? Because that extra DPS can devastate a Zerg. Knockback, zone control, and all these things can break up ranks and make a Zerg much less ineffective when you’re blasting your enemy targets allover the place preventing them from stacking in place.

Zerg play is very key, but do not underestimate the small things. Don’t underestimate damage percentages, don’t underestimate extra might, don’t underestimate the power of casting stealth, invisibility, portals, blinds, aegis, and all these things. They can change a battle completely. I for example tend to carry ballista prints so that when my server is capping SMC and the enemy is holding up, we can throw down ballistas at the entrances and use a guardian to keep them trapped inside while we block out their push from the outside and prevent any dead from coming inside. What about tapping keeps to prevent enemy reinforcements from returning as quickly? That’s highly key too.

Seconding this. I’m part of a havoc squad, rebel guild, ‘troll society’ and it’s extremely important to have the best gear available there. We often fight up to 3 times as many enemies (3v9 yesterday, finished them all).

What I think WvW needs:

• Option 1: Downscale ascended to exotic stats.
• Option 2: Let us play WvW-Only characters, that can have BiS gear and level 80 without cost.
• Option 3: Upscale exotic armour in WvW to ascended.
• Option 4: Delete PvE gear from WvW, allow players to get their PvE skins for free and unlimited from a database.

I feel like your organized havoc squad would still have the same effect on overall PPT if you were running around in all exotics. Organization, teamwork, and experience play a much more significant role than stats.

Against ignorant zerglings we would most probably… against other organised havoc squads that did have exotics… don’t think so.

no offense, but that sounds like a cop-out.

“dang! that other havoc group only beat us because they have ascended!!”

I’m sure if that situation actually happened, there would be a lot more significant things that determined the outcome of that fight. And more importantly, regardless who won the groupvgroup fight, the effect on PPT would still be non-existent or insignificant.

I disagree. It only sounds like a cop out because you think ascended gear doesn’t matter.

in the big picture of WvW, losing a group v group fight because a group had ascended gear isn’t going to matter when your server’s primetime zerg rolls through the borderland that evening.

Sirendor.1394:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Berelious.3290:

I still find it ironic that people use WvW as an excuse against Ascended equipment. They cite statistics, percentages, and such, but fail to remember one important thing… and that is that the one on one encounters do not matter in a mode of play that’s designed around group siege warfare. In the end, in WvW, the server with the biggest zerg wins.

False. Havoc squads can impact the capabilities of a team severely. If your massive Zerg is in EBG then you can have enemies slipping in to take down your keeps very quickly in the borderlands. Taking supplies is always devastating towards holding fortifications, and a small group nabbing frogs or dredge can create a nuisance.

And even then. Why do you think commanders ask for might and boons before a big engagement? Because that extra DPS can devastate a Zerg. Knockback, zone control, and all these things can break up ranks and make a Zerg much less ineffective when you’re blasting your enemy targets allover the place preventing them from stacking in place.

Zerg play is very key, but do not underestimate the small things. Don’t underestimate damage percentages, don’t underestimate extra might, don’t underestimate the power of casting stealth, invisibility, portals, blinds, aegis, and all these things. They can change a battle completely. I for example tend to carry ballista prints so that when my server is capping SMC and the enemy is holding up, we can throw down ballistas at the entrances and use a guardian to keep them trapped inside while we block out their push from the outside and prevent any dead from coming inside. What about tapping keeps to prevent enemy reinforcements from returning as quickly? That’s highly key too.

Seconding this. I’m part of a havoc squad, rebel guild, ‘troll society’ and it’s extremely important to have the best gear available there. We often fight up to 3 times as many enemies (3v9 yesterday, finished them all).

What I think WvW needs:

• Option 1: Downscale ascended to exotic stats.
• Option 2: Let us play WvW-Only characters, that can have BiS gear and level 80 without cost.
• Option 3: Upscale exotic armour in WvW to ascended.
• Option 4: Delete PvE gear from WvW, allow players to get their PvE skins for free and unlimited from a database.

I feel like your organized havoc squad would still have the same effect on overall PPT if you were running around in all exotics. Organization, teamwork, and experience play a much more significant role than stats.

Against ignorant zerglings we would most probably… against other organised havoc squads that did have exotics… don’t think so.

no offense, but that sounds like a cop-out.

“dang! that other havoc group only beat us because they have ascended!!”

I’m sure if that situation actually happened, there would be a lot more significant things that determined the outcome of that fight. And more importantly, regardless who won the groupvgroup fight, the effect on PPT would still be non-existent or insignificant.

Sirendor.1394:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Berelious.3290:

I still find it ironic that people use WvW as an excuse against Ascended equipment. They cite statistics, percentages, and such, but fail to remember one important thing… and that is that the one on one encounters do not matter in a mode of play that’s designed around group siege warfare. In the end, in WvW, the server with the biggest zerg wins.

False. Havoc squads can impact the capabilities of a team severely. If your massive Zerg is in EBG then you can have enemies slipping in to take down your keeps very quickly in the borderlands. Taking supplies is always devastating towards holding fortifications, and a small group nabbing frogs or dredge can create a nuisance.

And even then. Why do you think commanders ask for might and boons before a big engagement? Because that extra DPS can devastate a Zerg. Knockback, zone control, and all these things can break up ranks and make a Zerg much less ineffective when you’re blasting your enemy targets allover the place preventing them from stacking in place.

Zerg play is very key, but do not underestimate the small things. Don’t underestimate damage percentages, don’t underestimate extra might, don’t underestimate the power of casting stealth, invisibility, portals, blinds, aegis, and all these things. They can change a battle completely. I for example tend to carry ballista prints so that when my server is capping SMC and the enemy is holding up, we can throw down ballistas at the entrances and use a guardian to keep them trapped inside while we block out their push from the outside and prevent any dead from coming inside. What about tapping keeps to prevent enemy reinforcements from returning as quickly? That’s highly key too.

Seconding this. I’m part of a havoc squad, rebel guild, ‘troll society’ and it’s extremely important to have the best gear available there. We often fight up to 3 times as many enemies (3v9 yesterday, finished them all).

What I think WvW needs:

• Option 1: Downscale ascended to exotic stats.
• Option 2: Let us play WvW-Only characters, that can have BiS gear and level 80 without cost.
• Option 3: Upscale exotic armour in WvW to ascended.
• Option 4: Delete PvE gear from WvW, allow players to get their PvE skins for free and unlimited from a database.

I feel like your organized havoc squad would still have the same effect on overall PPT if you were running around in all exotics. Organization, teamwork, and experience play a much more significant role than stats.

there is an interview floating around somewhere (i can dig it up if you would like) where one of the devs said they would indeed like to add open world dueling at some point.

I’m with you OP. I’ve seen a lot of people opposed to dueling perform incredible mental gymnastics to try to argue against a feature that wouldn’t effect them if they simply chose not to duel.

haha i can hear it now…PAY 2 WIN, PAY 2 WIN, BAIT AND SWITCH!!

in WoW at max lvl i pvped and raided. In GW2 at max lvl i pvp (WvW) /shrug. There’s really no progression in GW2 after max level besides getting progressively more skilled at pvp, which is cool i guess.

Biggest difference for me is I used to get really exicted about drops or the potential for item drops in WoW. In GW2, its kinda like—open chest-salvagesalvagesalvage-continue to use WPs and repair armor.

Sleel.8365:

Scrambles.2604:

they are adding open world dueling at some point. It’s mentioned in a interview and i will dig it up if anyone likes…i try to post it everytime a duel thread gets made…which is like once a week.

As for inspect, i’m all for it, but blablabla elitism blablabla this argument never goes well. It boggles my mind how ‘end game’ in GW2 is collecting various exotic gears but no one can look at them beyond seeing your character avatar, and then people argue to keep it that way.

Not wanting inspect has nothing to do with elitism. It has to do with it’s none of your kittening business. Anymore then it’s your right to walk into my house and look through my closet. You wanna know, you can ask or kitten off.

GW2 is a MMO that focuses on group effort and cooperation, so i do have a vested interest in at least being aware of what type of gear you have. And looking at your gear in a teamwork oriented game is not even close to going into your house and looking in your closet. If your that bothered by other players “intruding” on you then you might be more comfortable in a single player game.

I hear the argument “you want to know, just ask!” all the time and while that is a great work around, it doesn’t take into account afk players or people that cant be bothered to share their gear.

/inspecting someone’s gear doesn’t effect the other player in any way, as opposed to asking them about their gear, which not only disrupts the player, but it requires two individual player actions to accomplish what could be done unobtrusively with /inspect.

Aomine.5012:

Contiguous.1345:

No.

You’d have the same situation as WoW, with thieves and warriors endlessly spamming ‘duel?’ at everyone in LA. (Except other thieves, warriors)

I’m pretty sure my eng has the potential to beat most theifs and warriors, provided they don’t run away from me. The only class I have hard time with is good burst phatasm mesmer that keep their distant as far as they and bring lots of invisibility, and very skillful necro.

Also this problem you mentioned is so easy to fix that simply adding a check box to open/close the invite duel system. When closed, no-one can invite duel on your characters.

Yeah, this would be a good solution. However, the idea that you would be constantly bombarded by duel requests by trolls is pretty ridiculous. I’m sure it’s possible, but it wouldn’t be such a frequent issue to warrant disallowing duels altogether.

And I actually played WoW and i never got spammed with duel requests. Same thing with SWTOR…no duel spams there either. But i guess i shouldn’t be surprised a bad argument relies so heavily on exaggeration and hyperbole.

I’m all for open world duels—in fact in an interview it was stated that anet would like to implement open world dueling at some point.

But honestly, i don’t think it needs to be in WvW. If you are taking a spot in WvW, you should be contributing, as there are limited spots. It would be like saying you should be able to duel your teammates in sPvP.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Upham.6137:

Wanting them not to be able to see your pvt gear or whatever so they don’t kick you is just selfish.

Nope.

“Play how you want” goes both ways. You can play how you want, and others don’t have to be forced to play with you.

Obviously, a little tact could go a long way here—you could be polite instead of outright booting someone. And better yet, you could explicitly state what you want in LFG. But i think it’s reasonable that some people prefer to run group under rigid conditions (x gear only).

That being said, if someone is going to ask me to leave a group, i would prefer it be because they inspected me and saw i didn’t have the gear they were looking for, instead of basing it on a less reliable measure, such as achievement points.

Of course it’s ok if you want to play with people who only use a specific type of gear. But the problem is, right now there are people willing to kick players based on their achievement points, which is ridiculous because achievement points mean absolutely nothing.

If people are willing to kick players for something as insignificant as achievement points, can you image what will happen when players have inspect? I wouldn’t be suprised if you got kicked because you have one ‘wrong’ trinket. Or use a sigil they don’t like.

that’s the point—if i’m going to get kicked i would prefer it be for an understandable reason. The amount of achievement points you have may reflect your experience in the game, but ultimately will not be a significant predictor of the effect your presence will have on the group.

With inspect, you are being judged based on the effect your participation will have on the group, because the gear you have can improve or detract from the group dynamic.

Now, ideally, i would prefer to not get kicked at all, which is why i join groups that don’t care and most likely wouldn’t boot me if inspect existed. But if for whatever reason a group deems me unfit to participate, i would prefer the reasons at least be relatively justifiable (as in, i did not have the gear/build the group was looking for).

But MOST importantly, all of this is a non-issue if people simply use LFG properly. Instead, we’re inundated on the forums with hyperbole about people being constantly ostracized from the moment they log in because they read on the forums the high end dungeon runners use zerker gear. All the while advocating against a tool like /inspect, which would significantly benefit new players and decrease the amount of time i have to spend with GW2 alt-tabed, playing my favorite sub game “find that armor on dulfy”