Guild Wars 2

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Aberrant.6749:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Aberrant.6749:

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Astral Projections.7320:

Colin johanson did mention it on this video interview with Matt Visual.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/85152-video-interview-pax-with-colin-johanson/

Oh god no!
Lets just hope he lied about it like they do for so many other things. The day the have open world dueling is the day I uninstall the game and find something else to do.

Umm… why such a harsh negative reaction?

There are a lot of people that have had some terrible experiences with pve ‘duelers.’ Probably more bad than good in a lot cases. There is also the concern of the type of attitude this type of play style fosters. Thus the extreme negative reactions to it.

It doesn’t need to be like that though. Normally the ugh is from people spamming the accept duel thing at you (which is easily solved).

True, it doesn’t need to be so explosive, but some people feel strongly, and they express it such. Everyone is entitled to that much. Whether you agree or disagree is solely up to you.

There are many more issues to it than just the spamming the duel invite issue. Most of which have been brought up and then slapped down as though they don’t matter in other threads. I won’t go into them here, it’s not part of this topic.

You don’t suppose that some of the claims against dueling have been exaggerated for the sake of trying to prove a point?

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Astral Projections.7320:

Colin johanson did mention it on this video interview with Matt Visual.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/85152-video-interview-pax-with-colin-johanson/

Oh god no!
Lets just hope he lied about it like they do for so many other things. The day the have open world dueling is the day I uninstall the game and find something else to do.

srsly? You could just not duel. No need to get all dramatic.

and Anet don’t care if you uninstall, they already got your money.

If you refuse to flow with the river of change, you will get eroded

they would like to add it a some point.

Sawnic.6795:

Scrambles.2604:

Sawnic.6795:

Scrambles.2604:

Sawnic.6795:

Scrambles.2604:

Sawnic.6795:

Scrambles.2604:

@Sawnic

i’ve said everything in my first few posts, everything now is responses.

Maybe i don’t understand what you’re saying so i’ll break down the jist of what i remember:

-you admitted to pinging gear you dont wear in order to join zerker only groups. You maintain the “play how you want” yet you force your non-zerker gear on players that are simply trying to play how they want, which happens to be with other zerkers.

I guess you feel justified doing this because you don’t agree with players who insist on zerker gear only. But regardless how you feel about their playstyle, they’re only trying to “play how you want,” and unfortunately, the way they want to play doesn’t include your playstyle. So for some reason, you feel the need to punish people that play the game differently from you.

so what i’ve been getting is “play how you want” but it can’t inherently exclude other players. You are unable to “play how you want” because “the way you want” exludes you from certain groups with specific parameters from joining their group.

I never said I link gear to join zerker groups. I just said I link gear when people ask me if I have zerker gear.

fair enough, not that i condone lying. But if a group wants all zerkers, they should say “LFM all zerkers.” This all comes down to explicitly stating what type of group you want in the LFG. Everything else that happens is just the consequence of someone not being straightforward with their intentions when setting up a group.

And again with the all zerkers. There have been several instances where it’s a normal non-LOL-DPS party that ask, and I tell them yes and link that, but continue to wear my survival set because that’s what my build is revolving around.

You’re literally focusing on the worst possible argument because anything else breaks your argument.

yeah i just edited but i’ll say it again. It’s fair to ask for gear ping up front unless they said it was ‘all classes’ or something. If someone just says in map chat "LFM’ and you respond and they ask for gear ping because they’re all zerker, you should either be all zerker or be like “sry not zerker.”

i only use zerker as the example because that’s really the only gear discrimination we see. I mean i could say “all clerics” but that wouldn’t really be realistic.

It’s link, not ping. Nowhere int he definition of Ping is there an overlap that could possibly be confused with link </pet peeve>.

And no, it’s not the only discrimination, its just the most common.

see you ignored my point. Do you think it’s fair to state up front what type of gear you want people in your party to wear?

No, I got your point. I just didn’t comment on it because I have been this whole thread.

“play how you want…. as long as i’m ok with it”

you’re worried that (based on your past comments) /inspect will lead to certain gear choices being required to join any group. Have you thought of making your own group? Seems like there are enough people in this thread alone to make a group where gear choice doesn’t matter. Heck, i would join that group too.

the point, that i feel i keep repeating, is that if you don’t care about what gear people wear, you should be able to make a group with that as the specifications—bonus points for saying so in the LFG.

But also, if you want to make a group where gear choice does matter, you should also be free to that as well. Again, bonus points for stating so in the LFG and not-being-a-jerk about asking the person not meeting group specifications to leave.

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

Scrambles.2604:

Sawnic.6795:

Scrambles.2604:

Sawnic.6795:

Scrambles.2604:

Sawnic.6795:

Scrambles.2604:

@Sawnic

i’ve said everything in my first few posts, everything now is responses.

Maybe i don’t understand what you’re saying so i’ll break down the jist of what i remember:

-you admitted to pinging gear you dont wear in order to join zerker only groups. You maintain the “play how you want” yet you force your non-zerker gear on players that are simply trying to play how they want, which happens to be with other zerkers.

I guess you feel justified doing this because you don’t agree with players who insist on zerker gear only. But regardless how you feel about their playstyle, they’re only trying to “play how you want,” and unfortunately, the way they want to play doesn’t include your playstyle. So for some reason, you feel the need to punish people that play the game differently from you.

so what i’ve been getting is “play how you want” but it can’t inherently exclude other players. You are unable to “play how you want” because “the way you want” exludes you from certain groups with specific parameters from joining their group.

I never said I link gear to join zerker groups. I just said I link gear when people ask me if I have zerker gear.

fair enough, not that i condone lying. But if a group wants all zerkers, they should say “LFM all zerkers.” This all comes down to explicitly stating what type of group you want in the LFG. Everything else that happens is just the consequence of someone not being straightforward with their intentions when setting up a group.

And again with the all zerkers. There have been several instances where it’s a normal non-LOL-DPS party that ask, and I tell them yes and link that, but continue to wear my survival set because that’s what my build is revolving around.

You’re literally focusing on the worst possible argument because anything else breaks your argument.

yeah i just edited but i’ll say it again. It’s fair to ask for gear ping up front unless they said it was ‘all classes’ or something. If someone just says in map chat "LFM’ and you respond and they ask for gear ping because they’re all zerker, you should either be all zerker or be like “sry not zerker.”

i only use zerker as the example because that’s really the only gear discrimination we see. I mean i could say “all clerics” but that wouldn’t really be realistic.

It’s link, not ping. Nowhere int he definition of Ping is there an overlap that could possibly be confused with link </pet peeve>.

And no, it’s not the only discrimination, its just the most common.

see you ignored my point. Do you think it’s fair to state up front what type of gear you want people in your party to wear?

Yes, people think that it is fair to demand other people wear certain things, and these are the peopel who breed eliticism. I am officially leaving this forum as it’s just going in circles and getting nowhere, I actually see it being closed soon.

If you don’t want to meet the demands of the group, join another group. The majority of the groups out there are don’t care about your gear anyway.

Just because someone prefers to play with a group set-up, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be able to simply because you disagree with it.

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

Scrambles.2604:

Are 75% of GW2 players you run in to really that bad?? I mean, i have definitely met jerks in the game, but that is a very small percent of the overall players.

You’re just being cynical if you think:
1) the forums represent anything but a tiny fraction of the player base
2) that the majority of players are jerks just waiting for the right tools to unleash their rage.

I am cynical, but not for those reasons, I blame years of retail management for that. However, as a gamer and regular forum visiter/poster, I know full well that the forums traditionally represent the loudest group, not the largest group. I get that, don’t worry.

And 75% of GW2 players don’t have the tools to be that bad, we shouldn’t give it to them. If somebody has a tendancy in their nature, but can’t force that tendancy upon people then they aren’t percieved as jerks. However, if they are suddenly given a tool that makes it so people can see how bad they are, everyone knows they’re a jerk.

I’ll give an example from my retail experience, I had an associate that was great with people and a hard worker. He ended up getting a promotion, which alotted him certain tools, powers and responsibilities. Then, he started to abuse those powers and tools and everyone hated him for it.
To bring this full circle, people on the internet never have to see your face. They don’t need to like you or for you to like them. These folks can be anything they want to, anyone, act any ole way in the world, and the only reprecussion is that they get ignored. They don’t care about that, the internet brings out the worst in a lot of people, and the more tools they’re given to act a fool, the more they’ll act a fool. Even if said tools were made and implimented with the best of intentions.

Never forget that some of the worst attrocities in history were done with the best of intentions … and even Communisim looked good on paper.

“TL;DR all players will abuse /inspect because i believe it is so.”

Sawnic.6795:

Scrambles.2604:

Sawnic.6795:

Scrambles.2604:

Sawnic.6795:

Scrambles.2604:

@Sawnic

i’ve said everything in my first few posts, everything now is responses.

Maybe i don’t understand what you’re saying so i’ll break down the jist of what i remember:

-you admitted to pinging gear you dont wear in order to join zerker only groups. You maintain the “play how you want” yet you force your non-zerker gear on players that are simply trying to play how they want, which happens to be with other zerkers.

I guess you feel justified doing this because you don’t agree with players who insist on zerker gear only. But regardless how you feel about their playstyle, they’re only trying to “play how you want,” and unfortunately, the way they want to play doesn’t include your playstyle. So for some reason, you feel the need to punish people that play the game differently from you.

so what i’ve been getting is “play how you want” but it can’t inherently exclude other players. You are unable to “play how you want” because “the way you want” exludes you from certain groups with specific parameters from joining their group.

I never said I link gear to join zerker groups. I just said I link gear when people ask me if I have zerker gear.

fair enough, not that i condone lying. But if a group wants all zerkers, they should say “LFM all zerkers.” This all comes down to explicitly stating what type of group you want in the LFG. Everything else that happens is just the consequence of someone not being straightforward with their intentions when setting up a group.

And again with the all zerkers. There have been several instances where it’s a normal non-LOL-DPS party that ask, and I tell them yes and link that, but continue to wear my survival set because that’s what my build is revolving around.

You’re literally focusing on the worst possible argument because anything else breaks your argument.

yeah i just edited but i’ll say it again. It’s fair to ask for gear ping up front unless they said it was ‘all classes’ or something. If someone just says in map chat "LFM’ and you respond and they ask for gear ping because they’re all zerker, you should either be all zerker or be like “sry not zerker.”

i only use zerker as the example because that’s really the only gear discrimination we see. I mean i could say “all clerics” but that wouldn’t really be realistic.

It’s link, not ping. Nowhere int he definition of Ping is there an overlap that could possibly be confused with link </pet peeve>.

And no, it’s not the only discrimination, its just the most common.

see you ignored my point. Do you think it’s fair to state up front what type of gear you want people in your party to wear?

Sawnic.6795:

Scrambles.2604:

@Sawnic

i’ve said everything in my first few posts, everything now is responses.

Maybe i don’t understand what you’re saying so i’ll break down the jist of what i remember:

-you admitted to pinging gear you dont wear in order to join zerker only groups. You maintain the “play how you want” yet you force your non-zerker gear on players that are simply trying to play how they want, which happens to be with other zerkers.

I guess you feel justified doing this because you don’t agree with players who insist on zerker gear only. But regardless how you feel about their playstyle, they’re only trying to “play how you want,” and unfortunately, the way they want to play doesn’t include your playstyle. So for some reason, you feel the need to punish people that play the game differently from you.

so what i’ve been getting is “play how you want” but it can’t inherently exclude other players. You are unable to “play how you want” because “the way you want” exludes you from certain groups with specific parameters from joining their group.

I never said I link gear to join zerker groups. I just said I link gear when people ask me if I have zerker gear.

fair enough, not that i condone lying. But if a group wants all zerkers, they should say “LFM all zerkers.” This all comes down to explicitly stating what type of group you want in the LFG. Everything else that happens is just the consequence of someone not being straightforward with their intentions when setting up a group.

edit; I take that back. If you joined “LFM all classes” or something like that and they still asked for gear ping that’s one thing. Or if it’s like halfway through the run and they’re like “Oh BTW your in zerker right?”

In any other case, asking you upfront if you’re in zerker gear is fair game. It is selfish to cheat with gear pings to join groups that request zerker only.

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

I’m assume it’ll be abused based on the behavior of the players. I’m not saying that it’s a bad mechanic, I’m saying there are bad people that will be using the mechanic. I’m assuming it’ll be abused based on the horrid nature of 75% of the people on the internet. You can be anything and act just about any way you want online, and most people choose to be bad and aweful people.

Are 75% of GW2 players you run in to really that bad?? I mean, i have definitely met jerks in the game, but that is a very small percent of the overall players.

You’re just being cynical if you think:
1) the forums represent anything but a tiny fraction of the player base
2) that the majority of players are jerks just waiting for the right tools to unleash their rage.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

based on nothing.

Based on pretty much every other mmo with inspect, I still remember the ton of requirements you needed in wow for a simple raid.

Scrambles.2604:

Tools do not create the player, the player behavior does.

I’m sorry but that’s very naive. Just give everyone in the entire world a free gun and see what happens. My point is, the behavior is already there, the players just don’t have the tools yet.

GW2 is unique among MMOs because gear is probably the least important aspect. In WoW, you literally could not do certain content unless you had certain gear. The only thing you can’t do in GW2 because of gear is high lvl fractals.

So, it’s not really accurate to use other game content to compare to GW2.

@Sawnic

i’ve said everything in my first few posts, everything now is responses.

Maybe i don’t understand what you’re saying so i’ll break down the jist of what i remember:

-you admitted to pinging gear you dont wear in order to join zerker only groups. You maintain the “play how you want” yet you force your non-zerker gear on players that are simply trying to play how they want, which happens to be with other zerkers.

I guess you feel justified doing this because you don’t agree with players who insist on zerker gear only. But regardless how you feel about their playstyle, they’re only trying to “play how you want,” and unfortunately, the way they want to play doesn’t include your playstyle. So for some reason, you feel the need to punish people that play the game differently from you.

so what i’ve been getting is “play how you want” but it can’t inherently exclude other players. You are unable to “play how you want” because “the way you want” exludes you from certain groups with specific parameters from joining their group.

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

How about this, why don’t we all just shut up because this isn’t going anywhere? Opinions are like farts, everyone has them and they all stink. I don’t like the inspect mechanic because it limits the things I can get into considering the amount of time I have to play in a week, some don’t like it because they don’t want to be told how to play and be limited in content because of that. Other want it because they don’t trust people who link their gear. There is no final answer to be had here, not until an AreaNet nameplate makes an appearance.

At the end of the day all the arguements made from one side can be applied to the other. If there is no inspect and the “all zerk” groups want to run and can’t trust Billy to link his real gear, then maybe they need to make some “all zerk” friends and only run with them? Or, if there is an inspect then I’ll just give up doing things until me and all the people I play with each have an 80 or two and we’ll make our own way through the game.

It’s whatever, honestly, but you can’t deny that having an inspect feature would be abused in the fashion we’ve been discussing. Just like damage meters would, they fall under the same basic realm of influence.

You’re assuming it will be abused, based on nothing. Tools do not create the player, the player behavior does. This is like that time that idle gun shot somebody, and the person operating it wasn’t to blame.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

again “play how you want, but only ways i agree with” That’s what i’m hearing.

That’s because you only hear what you want to hear.

so you don’t think people should be free to try to form specific groups? No one should be allowed to do all zerker runs and no one should be allowed to do all naked runs?

You can “dictate” whatever group you want. As long as it’s stated in the LFG it’s fair game.

I could “dictate” that my group be all zerker, and post “LFM all zerker.” What is wrong with that?

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

unless you want to play with 4 other zerkers…nothing i can do for you there"

And there you have it, the difference between play how you want, and wanting to dictate the way how other people in your party play.

If you want to play with zerkers only, go ahead. But not at the cost of drastically increasing elitism.

again “play how you want, but only ways i agree with” That’s what i’m hearing.

Just because you disagree with using zerker gear doesn’t mean others shouldn’t be free to run zerker only groups with like-minded, consenting adults.

Serelisk.6573:

Your analogy to running naked is completely without merit because it assumes that running with what is currently perceived as the most efficient gear for running dungeons and running with no gear have the same implications, which for obvious reasons, they don’t.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

you save your men of straw. My point was, if you want to run a certain type of group, be it zerker or naked, you should be allowed to. And if you state in your LFG that you want a specific group, be it zerker or naked, you should be allowed to enforce those rules and kick people that don’t adhere.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

It’s play how you want

Exactly..

Sawnic.6795:

And people should be allowed to make the groups they want, and they should be allowed to enforce the groups they want, but people such as yourself are the reason it shouldn’t be through a tool such as proposed here.

^This.

sorry, “play how you want, unless you want to play with 4 other zerkers…nothing i can do for you there”

edit, and what do you mean “^This?” I have said that i would like /inspect because i don’t have every skin in the game memorized and i think being forced to alt-tab to dulfy is poor game design. I am a nice player and i don’t care how you gear or if you repeatidly die in my groups.

Saying that i would abuse /inspect is ridiculous, and i have said nothing in this thread to suggest that.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Scrambles.2604:

Why should only one group be catered to?

Because you can’t cater to both.

how do you figure? As long as you explicitly say what type of group you’re looking for in LFG all issues can be avoided. You can complete content whether your zerker or not zerker, and god-forbid, some people just prefer to play only with zerkers.

It’s play how you want, not play how these dudes on the forums think you play.

Personally, i pick “LFM all classes” and have never been kicked for not zerking.

Korossive.7085:

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

Korossive.7085:

“Inspect Gear” goes the way of the “Damage Meter”.

Add it in the game and I leave.
I have a feeling I would be the only one.

Somebody read the title and not the post …

Unfortunately for me I did waste time reading your post.

Learn what “ping gear” is before suggesting a feature to take it from someone without their choice. Learn what elitists will deduct instantly from that, stats or no, and most importantly learn some manners towards people here.

Good luck in your game – and sorry for the failure you proposed in this thread.

the only difference between /inspect and gear ping is that people like Sawnic can abuse gear ping to sneak into groups.

I get that people don’t want to be forced to run zerker, but also understand, zerkers shouldn’t have to be forced to run with you either.

Serelisk.6573:

Having an /inspect feature puts more emphasis on gear than it does player skill, especially when it comes to efficiency, which is what the majority of those who runs dungeons a fourth, eighth, or twelfth time would overwhelmingly prefer. So it’s a little disingenuous to claim his statement is “asinine”.

However, slightly more on topic, I don’t think an inspect for cosmetics is a good thing either on similar principle. If you want to know, you should definitely ask. I don’t know who gets angry when you simply ask them what the name of their gear is, where they got it or if they could ping it for you, but that’s definitely got to be uncommon because it has no rational explanation I can think of, lol

No, it is still asinine, because all these problems can be solved by advertising for your group properly.

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

That’s a wonderfully civil way to look at it, except the internet is not a wonderfuly civil place. It never happens as simply as that. I work, have a family, and other responsibilities. I don’t ask to get in on the big stuff, just want to be a part of some of the things my guild does or my friends do. Where my friends would be happy to take me regardless of the gear I have, others are not. So let’s say I’m 80 but don’t have full ascended for some reason, and I only get to play an hour a day four days a week. It can take a full hour to clear 100% on a map zone, then I’m done for the night, have to wait until next time to get another map zone done. By the time I get into full ascended with the “proper” stats, the game mechanics could change and I’ll be excluded yet again. Stating what you want in LFG is great, and I support that. Being honest is amazing, and I support that. But if you and I are both the honest ones, then we’ll know that this attitude is not shared by most players of online games. I honestly don’t see the point in having the inspect mechanic, it doesn’t honestly help anything except to force people to be honest.

speaking of civility, could you split you thoughts down from 1 giant paragraph. My poor eyes….not to mention it is hard to read what you are saying in one giant block.

I shouldn’t assume everyone will be genuinely civil and you shouldn’t assume everyone will be discriminatory and evil. I think a compromise would be to assume a certain % of players are decent and a certain % of players will be jerks.

that being said, do you think adding /inspect will suddenly unlock a neural pathway that will turn decent folk into jerks? Or do you think it’s more reasonable that the % of jerk players will use this tool to discriminate? Given that the % of jerk players can already make you ping your gear in order to discriminate, do you really think /inspect gives them more power?

Futhermore, why are you so determined to run with the type of people that would normally discriminate against you because of your gear? If anything /inspect would make it easier to avoid these types.

Sawnic.6795:

Scrambles.2604:

@ Sawnic

Just plain stating you will be denied groups because of /inspect is outlandish. Especially with no evidence to support his claim. And before you cite WoW i will say /inspect existed well before gearscore, and the game itself is an entirely different beast.

If you’re cheating gear pings with alternative gear sets your just reinforcing the need for /inspect. You may be able to run sufficiently with a zerker group as a non-zerker, but you’re doing so at the expense of people expecting 4 others in zerker gear. That’s pretty selfish.

Gear links, not pings.

And yes, I actually have an entire MMO’s worth of experience on that subject. It’s called “Guild Wars 2.” Maybe you’ve heard of it? Well, I carry around a set of gear identical to mine I’m wearing as it is with stats people want to see so I won’t be ejected when I see they want a certain gear set. I can only imagine how hard it will be to get around that when they have an inspect feature. :v

Allowing /inspect will quite literally start another GearScore fiasco.

like i said, you’re being selfish if you’re cheating what the group is looking for.

Gearscore was used in WoW because certain content needed a certain stat level to complete. In other words, if your gear wasn’t good enough, you simply couldn’t compete/last in certain instances.

There is no content like this in GW2. Everything can be completed by anyone assuming you have a certain amount of skill.

At least you have a reasonable argument against /inspect. If /inspect was implemented you would no longer be able to troll zerker groups.

@ Sawnic

Just plain stating you will be denied groups because of /inspect is outlandish. Especially with no evidence to support this claim. And before you cite WoW i will say /inspect existed well before gearscore, and the game itself is an entirely different beast.

If you’re cheating gear pings with alternative gear sets your just reinforcing the need for /inspect. You may be able to run sufficiently with a zerker group as a non-zerker, but you’re doing so at the expense of people expecting 4 others in zerker gear. That’s pretty selfish.

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

I don’t even know what “ping gear” means, but as I said I waited a year to play this game and this is my third month. As to the exact quote and an exact source I can’t quote it, which I know in the terms of the internet means I never saw it and it never happened. And that’s fine, as I can’t make the arguement completely sound and water-tight, I’ll just leave you all to thinking I’m a liar and wrong. Luckily, I couldn’t care less if I were right or wrong, I know what I read and have no way (or need) to prove it.

As to the overall point, I thought it was that we didn’t need a full-on inspect (or other features) because they tend to lean on the side of people making stat demands out of other players. I’ve played enough MMOs and been shunned from enough guilds/raids/groups because I refused to alter my spec to understand that theory-crafting and parsing logs leads to the elitist attitudes. It happens, it wouldn’t happen overnight, but it would happen. Then, “play how you want” would no longer be a part of the game, and we’d both be wrong.

play how you want goes both ways. You can play how you want and other don’t have to be forced to play with you. This is why i have said over and over again all issues can be remedied by properly stating what type of group you are looking for in LFG.

You really can’t compare GW2 to other MMOs (cough WoW) because other MMOs are very gear dependent where as in this game, you can run naked as long as you have a good latency and can dodge appropriately.

Gear is just icing on the cake. Some people only like specific types of icing (zerker flavored) and should say so in LFG.

This idea that /inspect automatically equals gear discrimination and elitism is just asinine.

“Gear pinging” lets you shift+click your gear so it links to chat. Those that wish to discriminate against players or enforce their “Zerker only” group rules will currently ask you to “ping” you gear, so they have an idea of what gear you have.

This isn’t a bad thing at all. It is only bad for people that want to play with these kids but get denied the group because they aren’t outfitted to the groups specifications.

Like i said in the beginning, “play the way you want” doesn’t mean others should have to be forced to play with you, and vice versa.

The only conflicts that occur now is when players join groups that aren’t what they advertised (non-zerker joining zerker only) or when someone doesn’t properly advertise (you join a LFM only to find 4 zerkers who boot you for not zerking).

At least an /inspect feature would allow for the confrontations to happen at the beginning of the run (if theyre going to happen at all) rather than half way through or on a boss or something.

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

Scrambles.2604:

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

But yes, it was in a review of the game I read a while back. It’s the whole reason I waited a year before playing the game to see if they would impliment these things anyway and break the spirit of what they were trying to develop.

But mostly, don’t base your argument off inferences you made based on things that may have been left out of the game simply because time didn’t allow it.

Notice how I said I did read it, over a year ago …

you really gotta be more specific. Did you read “Play how you want” or did you read “we purposly limited the combat log, left out inspect, and made it impossible to calculate DPS.”

I realize this is really nitpicky, but you’re the one that keeps going back to semantics while ignoring the overall point.

I have read nothing that has indicated they purposely left out the /inspect feature. Feel free to show me other wise. The fact that you can ping gear leads me to believe they don’t have an issue with people sharing what gear they’re wearing.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Scrambles.2604:

But mostly, don’t base your argument off inferences you made based on things that may have been left out of the game simply because time didn’t allow it.

Um, as an MMO, the game has been in continued development for another year since release. “Time didn’t allow it,” is not a reasonable argument when they have obviously made no effort to correct the lapse.

Which would explain the wide variety of exotic aquabreathers in this game…unless of course you infer that they just want to discourage underwater gameplay, since they haven’t added them.

If you want another example, i will use Dueling. There are round-about ways to do it (sPvP), but they simply didn’t have the time or resources to implement it before launch. And since then, they have stated they would like to add dueling at some point.

Being an MMO has nothing to do with the time constraints a company faces for release dates. They have more flexibility, since it is an MMO, but a released MMO is not the final product.

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

Scrambles.2604:

Sawnic.6795:

Scrambles.2604:

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

AreaNet has said they want to avoid players telling players how to play (hints no DPS and partially incomplete combat logs and the lack of a full inspect).

Did they say this, or did you infer based on what you put in parenthesis?

cuz that would be like saying they never put in exotic breathers because they didn’t want us to get too invested in underwater combat. I think a better explanation is they ran out of development time before the projected release date.

If you want to avoid people telling you how to play, create/join groups with open parameters, and avoid ambiguous pugs and zerker only groups. Problem solved, and you didn’t even have to stifle the UI.

Except, that’s nothing like them telling us to not put on exotic aquabreathers. <_<;

Also, if a gear inspect feature comes out, good luck finding a group that has open parameters.

my point was, you can’t make an inference as to Anets motivations based on things that may not be in the game simply because time didn’t permit for it. If he’s got a quote or something describing the influence of /inspect on player choice, that would make more sense.

are you telling me if /inspect comes out, my guild wont invite me to groups? Regardless, i generally pug “lfm all classes welcome” and no one seems to care what gear you have.

If you want people to have specific gear in your group, that’s fine, but it’s your responsibility to say so in the LFG. This has nothing to do with /inspect.

So there is absolutely zero allowance for mods, incomplete combat logs to make it difficult to parse the information (regardless of countless requests to add more info), a complete lack of any kind of inspect feature in the game, no web-based functionality for the same (even though less developed games have them both), and we can’t infer that they don’t want these things and therefore don’t want us to be able to force people to play in a certain way? But yes, it was in a review of the game I read a while back. It’s the whole reason I waited a year before playing the game to see if they would impliment these things anyway and break the spirit of what they were trying to develop.

the reason the combat log isn’t complete is simply because it is time consuming. This is an actual quote.

They have maintained the “play how you want” approach. /inspect doesn’t change this at all. Just because some troll that would currently make you ping your gear can see what your wearing doesn’t change the fact that you would prefer to avoid this type of player in the first place.

But mostly, don’t base your argument off inferences you made based on things that may have been left out of the game simply because time didn’t allow it.

Sawnic.6795:

Scrambles.2604:

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

AreaNet has said they want to avoid players telling players how to play (hints no DPS and partially incomplete combat logs and the lack of a full inspect).

Did they say this, or did you infer based on what you put in parenthesis?

cuz that would be like saying they never put in exotic breathers because they didn’t want us to get too invested in underwater combat. I think a better explanation is they ran out of development time before the projected release date.

If you want to avoid people telling you how to play, create/join groups with open parameters, and avoid ambiguous pugs and zerker only groups. Problem solved, and you didn’t even have to stifle the UI.

Except, that’s nothing like them telling us to not put on exotic aquabreathers. <_<;

Also, if a gear inspect feature comes out, good luck finding a group that has open parameters.

my point was, you can’t make an inference as to Anets motivations based on things that may not be in the game simply because time didn’t permit for it. If he’s got a quote or something describing the influence of /inspect on player choice, that would make more sense.

are you telling me if /inspect comes out, my guild wont invite me to groups? Regardless, i generally pug “lfm all classes welcome” and no one seems to care what gear you have.

If you want people to have specific gear in your group, that’s fine, but it’s your responsibility to say so in the LFG. This has nothing to do with /inspect.

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

AreaNet has said they want to avoid players telling players how to play (hints no DPS and partially incomplete combat logs and the lack of a full inspect).

Did they say this, or did you infer based on what you put in parenthesis?

cuz that would be like saying they never put in exotic breathers because they didn’t want us to get too invested in underwater combat. I think a better explanation is they ran out of development time before the projected release date.

If you want to avoid people telling you how to play, create/join groups with open parameters, and avoid ambiguous pugs and zerker only groups. Problem solved, and you didn’t even have to stifle the UI.

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

Korossive.7085:

“Inspect Gear” goes the way of the “Damage Meter”.

Add it in the game and I leave.
I have a feeling I would be the only one.

Somebody read the title and not the post …

While I don’t want my stats visible, I have no immediate problems with somebody seeing what gear skins I have (default or otherwise). There are times I would like to see some of the things folks are wearing, and most are kind enough to link or tell me. That being said, there’s enough websites out there that have them separated by race/armor class/faction/etc that I don’t need the inspect to get what I want, I just have to be less lazy about finding it, lol.

if part of playing the game requires you to alt-tab, that’s not really good game design.

Some people are nice enough to message you their gear. Honestly, i haven’t really encountered anyone who’s told me to “eff off.” But more often then not, and especially in LA, you don’t receive a message back. Maybe because they’re afk, don’t speak english, couldn’t be bothered, etc.

An /inspect is by no means a necessary feature, especially when you can /ping everything. I would just hate for /inspect to not be added solely because some people were afraid of everyone suddenly turning into elitists.

if people care enough about your gear they will just ask you to ping. How would inspect change anything?

maybe i’m not as cynical as the rest of you guys, but i think inspect would be a great tool for new players or anyone who hasn’t memorized every skin in the game.

Yes, people could deny you based on your gear after /inspecting you, but those same people make you ping you gear now. And since gear !== skill people who judge based on your gear are bitter and misguided and you are better off not playing with them in the first place.

If it’s that big an issue, i would say add a “block inspect” option. But that really wont change anything, because people that would make you /ping your gear or would kick you after /inspect would just outright kick you if your inspect is blocked. But none of that matters, because i don’t know why anyone would be so desperate to play with someone who is willing to boot you just because of your gear.

Galtrix.7369:

I’m taking a stand here and now and saying I will not go berserker no matter what.

I got my thief to 80 and bought all PVT with karma.

Since then, i’ve been getting a lot better with my thief, and have gradually been phasing out my PVT for zerker gear as i get better skilled and take less damage.

I guess my point is, as you get better you will realize you don’t need to rely on your gear to mitigate damage as you learn to better utilitze your other resources (dodging/utilities/etc).

And to your point about everyone insisting on using zerker gear— A zerker sacrifices defenses for increased risk of getting downed, and the more time spent in a fight, the probability of getting downed increases, simply because the more times you dodge, the more likely you are to eventually miss one.

So someone in all zerker gear does best in shorter fights. And the more zerkers in your party, the shorter the fight will be, and the less chance someone misses a dodge and gets downed.

However, if you’re the only zerker in a group full of PVT wearers, the fight will drag on longer and your chance of getting dropped increases significantly.

The only thing i really agree with is that players should adapt. If i realize i’m the only person with zerker gear in my group i just throw on my WvW PVT gear and use the bathroom beforehand cuz i know it will be a long run

ArchonWing.9480:

Yes to a personal meter. The combat log is utterly useless.

I really hate to inform you all, but unfortunately there are objective metrics to performance. Whether or not you accept these metrics to be indicative of character ability is another story, but people are theorycrafting “optimal” builds regardless and personally I want to see if the build I’m trying out is more effective than the one I was doing last. Stats are always subjective to interpretation, but to form an analysis of any value, you need actual numbers.

Having the game hide this kind information just because people may get their feelings hurt is silly. Do people not realize many things are situational; and if whatever you’re using is “bad”, then it’s bad? So what if it suggests your build is trash? It probably is. So what? I’m a pretty terrible player, so I don’t hang out with elitists. Cool story really; I do play the way I want, but I don’t want to make any excuses either.

And it does help if we can prove that a build a friend is running is suboptimal to run something else. Better than failing 20-30 times I say.

Also, the next time you bring your non-fotm build/class in and you can prove it can just do just as well as their “favored” builds. Well, wouldn’t that be swell?

As for people being jerks, people always be jerks, and you shouldn’t play with them. The whole thing comes down to the zerker debate. There’s jerks on both ends. I compare rude speedrunners that forum warrior to people who drive fast, constantly tailgate while swapping lanes and think they own the highway, honking at people who get in their way. And then there’s the zerker haters who want to “drive the way they want” but think that going 40 mph in the fast lane and blocking it is perfectly acceptable. (aka the person that feels entitled to join speedruns without gearing for one)

Slower traffic keep to the right. That’s all I’ll say.

this is a good post. So naturally, it was overlooked by the naysayers.

Downfall.2671:

Charak.9761:

I want it so rangers know how garbage they are in dungeons and we can stop the arguement about why we don’t like them in dungeons.

Exactly this is the reason why i’m absolutely against dmg meters. People will start to believe that damage is the only thing that matters in this game and we will have even more of those 1337 zerkers that watch the fight while laying in the dust.
I’ve played many MMORPGs and things like these had an absolutely terrible influence on them

the idea is that meters would show all sorts of info, so when someone says “hey noob why you no dps” you could say, “well look at all the effective healing i was doing.”

that is a non-issue though, because all of your problems could be solved by grouping with people that arent jerks—- join a guild, stop trying to hop in the “lfm zerkers only” groups, or do what i do and join the “all classes welcome” groups.

Boons are sort of active skills, in that they are useful in the moment and last 3-4 seconds to 1 minute at most. Reduce condition duration is useful as a food buff that lasts 30 mins, but it wouldn’t be very useful as a 5 second boon, especially when it would be easier to use a skill that simply removes the condition.

Simply put, there are too many ways to just remove a condition altogether for a condition reduction boon to be useful.

Inb4 move to suggestions forums.

This conversation is brought up now and again and doesn’t go anywhere.

On the one side you have the guys that still suffer from PTSD from their days of being denied from WoW raids, and on the other side you have the guys that enjoy theory crafting and min/maxing who would love to know the underlying calculations behind their spells.

Then you have the trolls/jerks/bad mannered that inevitably control every aspect of the game and determine what we get based on their potential to abuse it. Their outspoken nature and eager willingness to call you out on the smallest mistakes makes players cower in droves in reaction to their criticisms and as a result we get the “who cares how much dmg you did if it’s dead” sort of compromises.

lordkrall.7241:

Scrambles.2604:

Yeah, so lets hold the ability to make/use addons responsible instead of the people that force you to use them. This reminds me of that time that idle gun shot somebody.

Or simply don’t allow them at all, which would solve the problem without giving ArenaNet the extra workload needed to check and accept/deny every single add-on people do.

Solve the problem? The problem you just invented, that addons would be mandated if anet allowed people to make addons? I mean, you could say the same thing about TS/mumble, but Anet hasn’t banned people for using that.

I get what you are saying. It’s just like in WoW, where if you raided you had to have an array of addons to participate. Only that’s just what you hear parroted on the internet.

The reality is, every group is different. My WoW guild didn’t care what addons you ran as long as you kept up. But if you are even at the point where you are participating at a level where addons are beneficial, chances you are invested enough to understand the advantages of using the addons.

lordkrall.7241:

What I was saying however was that there is always a risk that groups would require all members to use certain add-ons, which would effect the game negatively, since not everyone want to download un-official stuff.

Yeah, so lets hold the ability to make/use addons responsible instead of the people that force you to use them. This reminds me of that time that idle gun shot somebody.

Teraphas.6210:

I could be wrong going to jump in game and check but pretty sure you can already turn on cooldown timers that apply to the attunments under options

yeah you can.

What i’m saying is when i’m attuned to water, i would like to know how much time i have left on Fire grab. In WoW i had “cooldown bars” which would be a list of all my pending cooldowns with countdown timers. Very handy tool.

addons would be nice, but honestly i don’t know any games other than WoW that allow them.

it’s no coincidence that some of the most successful games were open to player mods and addons. Blizzard and Valve come to mind first. It creates a better, more interactive community and also saves the company on funds and manpower by letting the community build things for their game for free.

Personally, i would kill for a cooldown timer. On my Ele, it would be nice to know when my cooldowns are up for elements i’m not currently attuned to.

lordkrall.7241:

And do you really think that has nothing at all to do with the fact that it is “annoying” to check gear currently?

it may, but i choose to believe the reasons that are right in front of me.

The group said “all classes welcome” therefore, i believe they tolerated me because they welcomed everyone.

If i join an all classes welcome and someone /inspects me saying “LOLZ NOOB YOU HAZ NO ZERKER,” then i would tell the group leader to request zerker only.

If you pick and choose the tools we get based on what the worst of the worst players are going to do with it then we wont ever get anything fun.

Also, it’s not fair to compare /inspect in other games to GW2, since this game is much more skill dependent. While some people may berate you for not optimizing your gear properly, it is much less likely to happen since optimizing your gear isn’t going to be the main reason you win/fail and dungeon, as opposed to other games where you can be gated from content because you don’t have adequate gear to complete it.

lordkrall.7241:

But it will also most likely increase the issue with elitism.
A great example of this is LotRO. You have the ability to stop people form inspecting you, but most groups won’t take you if you have that one active, simply because they can’t inspect you.

If the ability to inspect doesn’t exist at all situations like that would be much more rare (sure some people will still shout about people pinging gear, but most won’t bother with it.)

this isn’t an /inspect or elitism problem though. If you care about what gear people in your group use, it should be explicitly stated in the LFG. I don’t have to ping my gear because i join groups where people don’t care about your gear.

lordkrall.7241:

So just because some elitism exist, we should increase the elitism even more?

No, but first we have to acknowledge that elitism will always exist as long as experienced players and newbies group together, that is unavoidable.

So, what you do is you add ways for these type of players to avoid each other. Currently, you can use LFG and gear pinging. /inspect functions the same way as gear pinging, but without having to bother anyone to ping their gear.

It is just optimizing something you can already do, so i don’t know why anyone would argue against making an existing function easier to use.

edit; and this is only a small part of /inspect. /inspect isn’t just a tool for weighing potential teammates.

It is also great for new players to see how other people build their gear without having the message them and make them ping their gear everything. And it is also great for every person that can’t be bothered to alt-tab to dulfy every time they see a piece of gear they don’t recognize.

When the end game essentially boils down to collecting neat pieces of gear, it blows my mind that people would be against a way to let people actually see the gear your using.

I haven’t figured out why, but a lot of people in these forums are really against the idea /inspect.

I mean, i hear the reasons they say they’re against it, but it usually boils down to a deep rooted fear of elitism, coupled with an inability to see existing elitist elements that thrive already without /inspect.

Long story short, /inspect would be welcomed in my opinion, but prepare to be flamed .

Astewart.8415:

if Mobs were more intelligent, or indeed if they played more like PVP bots then we would have a serious problem. Namely because in my view the defensive skills are lack lustre and heals aren’t nearly what they need to be to be truly effective.

I think aggro is part of the problem, too. Currently, with mob aggro being closer to random than predictable, you just have to make sure you can dodge/mitigate the handful of attacks you receive before the mob goes after someone else.

If you could influence aggro to the point of one person receiving the majority of the attacks from a mob, then defensive stats/abilities would be much more important, instead of just saving your dodges for when it’s your turn to be attacked by the dumb AI.

i think you can disable right click to target now. Hope this helps.

be patient guys, it’s coming

at around 14:11

Dee Jay.2460:

Nick.6972:

Eurogamer Expo 2013

“We were hoping originally it would take days/weeks for players to defeat Tequatl instead of 12 hours.”

My first attempt with organized group was successful.

With this, hopefully Arena Net realizes that they have to make even harder content.

What bothered me most about that comment is that it show just how ignorant the Devs were of developments made throughout the past years in MMOs.

If ANet had any understanding of their player-base they’d know that a large portion of it has had years and years of experience doing various kinds of raid-encounters.

Raid encounters that are dozens of times more complex and demanding than anything ANet has created to date.

As it stands, it is simply not possible to create beatable content to today’s MMO players that is no beaten within a week (unless hidden behind artificial gating mechanics). If it’s killable, it will die within a week, period.

Blizzard has made sure of that by creating such cutting edge raid-content that players developed this mentality.

It may not apply to the player base at large, but you only need a dedicated few to beat most content.

my experience with WoW is that progression through a raid occurs by throwing your bodies at the raid until enough people get geared up in the process. Once you cross that stat threshhold you can start dropping more bosses. I haven’t played WoW in a while, so this may have changed…but gear is a much bigger factor for progress in WoW compared to GW2.

i dont think the difficulty is around the fight itself, but more-so, just being at the right place at the right time.

The right place being a full server, and the right time being when enough people are on that know the fight.

s 2 is a mobile offensive skill. You can use it to engage and also to disengage. It even imobilizes for 1 sec, its great for chasing people.

click left and right at the same time and you will run. Hope that helps.