Guild Wars 2

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

There is more to the issue than just “can’t be bothered to decline,” which has been discussed, repeatedly. However, since they don’t affect certain people, those points are not valid and don’t exist.

ugh. Ok i totally understand that some people are afraid of being bullied by duels. I cant rationalize it, but it is a fear and most fears are irrational anyway.

Which is why i concluded my statement that none of our little forum chatter matters. You can complain all day that open world duels are toxic even though every single MMO gets along fine with an accept/decline system.

In the end it isn’t a matter of “how will duels effect the game environment”— That is probably one of the last variables Anet considers. It is a matter of Dev time vs potential to generate more revenue. At this point in the game that is how everything is decided.

I know it sounds righteous to defend the community zeitgeist against the scourge of seemingly competitive play, but Anet dont care bout none of that. We are all just potential dollar signs and Anet just wants to find ways to get us to the cash shop, while keeping the game at an acceptable level of playability for the lowest cost.

the forums are split between those that want duels and those who can’t be bothered to decline a duel request.

None of that matters though, because all evidence has shown Anet is pretty much OK with open world dueling. Unfortunately, there is no Gem value in open world dueling and it is a very low priority. I think we can expect to see it in a year (the next feature patch) or it being released with an expansion.

I think open world duels are crucial, especially for teaching people how to pvp. You should be able to learn and practice your skills for pvp one at a time, just like you do in PvE leveling.

Instead we are given a full lvl 80 for sPvP with full skills and traits unlocked. My first impression of sPvP was that it was overwhelming. I had no knowledge of the significance of my trait point allocation, as i had no idea how i was expected to play my character. Luckily, i enjoyed PvE enough that i stuck with it, which carried me later in life to WvW.

Tl;Dr – if you wanna PvE, the game slowly teaches you everything and introduces you to your skills/character. If you wanna PvP, you are thrown in the deep end with the expectation that you already know how to swim.

Open world Duels would provide that intermediary/training for those interested in PvP without being overwhelming.

Sandpit.3467:

Good post (OP).

Sadly, yes, this is all about the toxicity of thieves. Probably the No. 1 reason why most players won’t go near PvP/WvW (Warrior OP being the second). And every thief in the game knows it and will post on forums like crazy to keep their toxicity fix. Just look how they reacted in GW1 forums when anyone dared suggest that perma was OP.

Not to worry though, ANet has it’s favored classes (and unfavored) and that isn’t going to change, ever.

If most players don’t pvp/wvw because of thieves, then why is there always a queue for wvw and why are there never any thieves there?

The only toxicity thieves bring is poison share…ba-zing!

we’re at war! Don’t waste your time considering what is fair or toxic, your enemy sure wont be doing that!

thief isn’t the best for zergs but i play a thief and try to be useful when zerging.

sb 2 blasts are where it’s at. Thief is great for buffing the zerg as long as people are dropping fields. When the zerg ball moves in, i continue to drop sb2 blasts on the front line for dmg and support.

clean-up/precision finishers – while heavy classes make up the bulk of the zerg, a good thief can pick up the scraps as enemies scatter and can quickly finish downed enemies.

Cercie.1025:

But then again I don’t like dying every 5 minutes so I can always ping zerk gear even if I happen to switch to support in order to keep the rest of the party alive.

i keep reading about more and more people that do this— Ping zerk gear for a zerk only group and run something else. And then everyone wonders why so many zerker only groups are so hostile.

pdavis.8031:

Scrambles.2604:

pdavis.8031:

sorudo.9054:

my issue isn’t anything pointed at zergers, if you want to focus on speed rather then fun then be my guess.
my issue is how ppl tread non-zergers, they are seen as useless junk under the excuse that they should not be there and simply don’t belong.
sure, there are “some” groups who play for fun but be honest, how many are actually playing for fun?

if ppl just keep their foul remarks to them self then finding a group isn’t so bothersome, the game is there to have fun and relax and that’s exactly what i am planning to do.

+100

I totally agree. Although it’s not so bad in game, it’s worse in the forums. Zerkers, typically, only care about DPS and themselves. Nothing else matters to them. Because to them DPS = money, and that is the whole of the game. Period. I tried to have a discussion as to why another build wasn’t viable, but no one wanted to hear it.

And to those who think that non-zerkers are only “pretending” to tank, do damage, whatever, and are not actually doing anything, really just need to get over yourselves and stop whining about how someone else plays. Because yes we are doing damage, yes we are using healing, and keeping people in the fight a little longer, among other things. There is no emote for swinging your weapon uselessly, or activing a skill etc.

A group of non zerkers can do a dungeon just as well as a zerker group. And guess what? The result is the same! Mobs die, boss gets killed, people get loot.

You’re not wrong that speed is important for dungeon runs, but another important distinction is that each zerker added makes it faster, so you dodge less. Less dodges = less chances of missing a dodge.

If you are the only zerker in your party, the fights will take longer, you will have to dodge more and your chance of missing a dodge increases significantly.

Don’t think of it as non-zerkers are slowing zerkers down. Non-zerkers increase the amount of risk involved in a run for those running zerker.

Of course. I’m not denying the benefits of zerker speed runs, I just chose to go another direction.

i’m glad that’s clear. Maybe we can stop propagating disingenuous ideas that people in zerker gear are selfish and only think of themselves.

MrDmajor.7084:

How come nobody can specifically describe what builds benefit from a nerf to Zerker build? They always speak of them vaguely, then when you take them to task they get defensive and deflect.

What builds benefit from a nerf to Zerker? How are they “more viable” now when the game play mechanics haven’t changed one iota?

In WvW, zerkers are doing less dmg while non-zerkers still have the same access to toughness/vita.

So people running defensive builds can either enjoy the increased defense against ferocity, or add power or something else to their builds while still enjoying the same level of defensive capabilites they had pre-patch.

pdavis.8031:

sorudo.9054:

my issue isn’t anything pointed at zergers, if you want to focus on speed rather then fun then be my guess.
my issue is how ppl tread non-zergers, they are seen as useless junk under the excuse that they should not be there and simply don’t belong.
sure, there are “some” groups who play for fun but be honest, how many are actually playing for fun?

if ppl just keep their foul remarks to them self then finding a group isn’t so bothersome, the game is there to have fun and relax and that’s exactly what i am planning to do.

+100

I totally agree. Although it’s not so bad in game, it’s worse in the forums. Zerkers, typically, only care about DPS and themselves. Nothing else matters to them. Because to them DPS = money, and that is the whole of the game. Period. I tried to have a discussion as to why another build wasn’t viable, but no one wanted to hear it.

And to those who think that non-zerkers are only “pretending” to tank, do damage, whatever, and are not actually doing anything, really just need to get over yourselves and stop whining about how someone else plays. Because yes we are doing damage, yes we are using healing, and keeping people in the fight a little longer, among other things. There is no emote for swinging your weapon uselessly, or activing a skill etc.

A group of non zerkers can do a dungeon just as well as a zerker group. And guess what? The result is the same! Mobs die, boss gets killed, people get loot.

You’re not wrong that speed is important for dungeon runs, but another important distinction is that each zerker added makes it faster, so you dodge less. Less dodges = less chances of missing a dodge.

If you are the only zerker in your party, the fights will take longer, you will have to dodge more and your chance of missing a dodge increases significantly.

Don’t think of it as non-zerkers are slowing zerkers down. Non-zerkers increase the amount of risk involved in a run for those running zerker.

Fenrir.3609:

@ The thread in general and the idea that people would ping zerk gear and then use something else. Just, why? You have the gear, use it. If you can’t use it and you need the crutch of more “tanky” gear, then don’t try and join zerk ping groups in the first place.

GW2 is opposite world where the people that claim to hate elitists tend to behave more like the stereotypical ‘elitist jerk’ themselves. All while the actual “elitist” players are busy commanding pugs in WvW or just playing within their guilds. It blows my mind but it’s also fascinating to see it on these boards at the same time.

Burnfall.9573:

Scrambles.2604:

T raw.4658:

MarauderShields.6830:

“dem OP Theifs nerf pl0x”
here’s the deal: backstabs do less dps than autoattacks now

Thats sad if true….though with how ferocity panned out I’d bet it’s actually the case

Anyone test this yet?

I think everyone has seen their crit dmg decrease, as expected. But i’m pretty lazy and i haven’t switched over from zerker to conditions yet. I’ve still been wvwing in my zerker gear and i’m still dropping fools like before the patch.

as for backstab being less dps than auto-attack…i dunno about that. Even with the nerf my backstabs are still hitting for 8k-10k.

It is reason like this i always quote the word “nerf” when given to thief class,

All day yesterday, i was getting hit with 7k-11k + damage by none other than thieves.

Yes!

It’s true!

What’s New??

Oh wow!

“This class always gets “NERFED”

As the saying goes, “words are nothingness without action”

Since day 1,

till this day,

Thief Nerf,

Nothingness !

Burnfall, i admire your passionate hatred for thieves. I wish i could be that passionate about anything. keep up the good work.

T raw.4658:

MarauderShields.6830:

“dem OP Theifs nerf pl0x”
here’s the deal: backstabs do less dps than autoattacks now

Thats sad if true….though with how ferocity panned out I’d bet it’s actually the case

Anyone test this yet?

I think everyone has seen their crit dmg decrease, as expected. But i’m pretty lazy and i haven’t switched over from zerker to conditions yet. I’ve still been wvwing in my zerker gear and i’m still dropping fools like before the patch.

as for backstab being less dps than auto-attack…i dunno about that. Even with the nerf my backstabs are still hitting for 8k-10k.

ronpierce.2760:

Chaotic.9742:

No offense OP but I’ve been running ele and destroying thieves (except the good ones it’s about 50/50 unless they are like Caed level good which makes it closer to 40/60) so I honestly do think it’s a l2p here. I run d/d and if you know the attacks coming dodge (count seconds in stealth to time it), shocking aura, earth 4, etc. heck, I can eat the backstab then swap to water and top myself off. This is likely a gimmick thief build with might stacking and all you need to do is dodge it then drop him in seconds. Working as intended IMO…

Erm, really no way you look at is a 1 shot from stealth a “L2P” issue… The fact of the matter is, while thieves may be squishy, numbers in this game both sustain, burst, condies AND healing are growing out of control. They nerfed some of this stuff a LONG time ago, but we’re right back on track for a power creep. TTK needs to go back up because insta-gibs are not skillful or fun. While, yes, if they nerf burst and damage across the board, they need to do the same with healing so people don’t become immortal bunkers, it still needs to be done. TTK is too short, and sustain for healing is too high if you don’t have the burst. That’s how these power creep races work… You end up with a ruined game full of 1 shot builds or immortal tanks.

this is why they give you downed state and balance the game around teamplay. You get one shotted, so its on your teammates to either help you or drop the glass cannon thief and all is well.

If backstabs bothered me enough to create threads about it, i would like to imagine i would also build my character specifically to avoid getting one shotted. I know the risks of building glassy so i don’t make a thread everytime i get one shotted.

Fortus.6175:

@ Scramble, i believe that was a personal attack yet I will let it slide for the sake of civilized arguments. Waste CDs are the ones you use without being able to confirm whether they were effective. Believe it or not, some classes dont have initiate that regenerates almost without notice. I hope you keep it civilized here and provide with true countermeasures rather than subjective “keep it in the air, man! Just spam it all, something has got to hit, hopefully” Luck =/= skill.

if it makes you feel better, i didn’t discover the d/d might on signet build until you posted a complaint thread about it. I’ve been running it and enjoying it ever since

Fortus.6175:

Scrambles.2604:

You gotta swim in your AoEs, man. Otherwise, there are lots of builds/classes that just straight trump other ones. Switch to some defensive utilities if you can anticipate a thief is around.

.

This is probably the most pathetic excuse I have keep hearing since day one on stealth “waste your CDs, man, wave your non-melee weapon around hoping that the thief is bad enough to stand on them or even walk towards them! Remember, all thieves are mentally handicapped and will literally walk into the your long CD AoEs, I guarantee it”

Im sorry, but no. I have played thieves myself, I KNOW how unfair they are, I know their CD, I know their tricks (most of them), I know their weakness. When I play thieves, I dont get hit by AoEs bcause I dont walk in a straight line where i stealthed, I dont get hit by melee weapons because I only close in when Im ready to attack, not walk around them as they swing the sword. Ranged weapons cant afford to 111111 around.

Sorry, I want true counterplay; time to retaliate, a skill that does so much damage should give the defender an equal opportunity to inflict just as much. I want to be able to dodge it, I want to be able to block it, I want to be able to blind it. I want their dmaage to not be upfronted by more 30% upfronted and 70% sustained. Right now it is 90% upfronted, 10% HS/blind into stealth and repeat.

Once again, you cant call this a game of skills if all there is for a defender is walking around aimlessly waving their sword like a retartd hoping to get lucky. You want to have e-sport attention? Start adding skillful decisions.

Waste a cooldown? If you’re not using your abilities on enemies what are you using them for? An AOE doesn’t have to hit them, area denial is very useful.

I dunno why i’m trying i think you just want to complain not seek advice. Classic Fortus!

Fortus.6175:

Later on that same thief hit me with 11k backstab and another 12k, both times with no vulnerability stack, couldnt target him at the moment it happened so I couldnt see the might stacks, but he was constatnly using dagger/pistol smoke to disappear into stealth.

Im sorry, but a thief is not defined as tissue paper. Want to know what true tissue paper is? An ele with no stealth to disappear into. Thieves have low hp yes, but by no mean they are the easiest to kill class in the game, in fact, I would dare to say a well played thief is nearly virtually impossible to kill with the access to blinds/teleports/stealth.

All I want is an equal chance to retaliate vs them, and less upfront damage and more over-time damage. Right now a backstab has literally no counterplay other than hope you can run faster than a thief with multiple teleports. That is not fun, that is not counterplay, that is no skill.

You gotta swim in your AoEs, man. Otherwise, there are lots of builds/classes that just straight trump other ones. Switch to some defensive utilities if you can anticipate a thief is around.

Honestly, your best bet would be to roll a thief. People that complain about thief only have the perspective of the times they were owned by them. They never mention the scrub thieves that they drop without an issue.

Play a thief and get wrecked just as often as you drop people and it may alter your narrow worldview. Doing 12k dmg is nice but you will also have to manage the effects of having only 11k HP.

fight on the point, man!

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Remember to always place your trust in the Holy Trinity of DPS.

• May Power, the Father grant you His Might to rain death in the form of large numbers on top of your enemies.
• May Precision, the Son, with His Fury guide your blades into the flimsiest of their armor.
• Though fallen, may Ferocity, the Holy Spirit, imbue you and magnify the virtues of both, the Father and the Son, so that your blows may fall heavy on your foes taking on the shape of more hard-hitting crits.

Spared and blessed be the followers of the Assassin that, though slightly bent on their ways, share our vision of smooth and efficient speedruns.

May you never degenerate and fall and be led astray to the misguided ways of the Rampager, or the nefarious path of the Soldier, or the wretched lanes of the Rabid.

May your faith in the Berserker never falter, your Fury never quenched, and your Might always stacked to 25.
For Great Justice!
Amen.

This is awesome. I just wish i didn’t have to dig through all this anti-elitist rhetoric to find it.

i managed to pull of a 10k backstab on a guardian (most of my backstabs usually crit between 9k and 11k depending on buffs/bloodlust stacks), and had no issue dropping people as usual in WvW. I haven’t thoroughly looked at all the numbers but after one night of WvW with the new patch i’m not as concerned as i was pre-patch.

it’s convenient they released the wardrobe at the same time as the crit dmg nerf. I can put my current skins on condition gear now.

Simon.3794:

Jaxom.7310:

Simon.3794:

Dueling is not fun in GW2, everyone will just be running 1v1 hard counter builds.

If you don’t like dueling, and you reject any duels, wtf do you even care what “everyone will be running”. If you are playing dungeons/ other pve content, what do these ‘hard counters’ have to do with you?

Because it is the reason why i don’t enjoy dueling, if people don’t just run hard counter dueling yolo builds, i will be enjoying quite a lot since it will be more skill related and not hard counter yolo build wars 2, i mean what’s the point of dueling if you just run yolo hard counter dueling builds and faceroll to win, like seriously.

If you want to win goto spvp where it matters.

Duels are just for fun and experimenting with builds without having to fully commit yourself to zoning to another area, while enjoying the present scenery and also you don’t have to die and respawn.

If someone is running a cheap, hard counter and you don’t like it don’t duel them, lol.

Zepidel.5349:

Let me tell you what all these threads always come to

Basically 1 camp want to have a DPS for legitimate theory crafting purposes, and I don’t think anyone disagrees with them, or whether or not they should be able to do so.

But 2 camps are pretty much at war with each other, the ones who follow and expect pugs to be in the most efficient (best) gear for PvE (Zerker), and those who want to play in whatever gear they want.

But the argument always boils down to: Do I have the right as the creator of the party to enforce a dps/gear check on randoms/pugs that join.

As in, if a make a party “LFM zerker gear 6k DPS only” and someone joins and does 4k dps you kick them for underperforming.

and why are people mad that these topics come up? The whole point of the forums is to have discussion on things, especially controversial things. If you just instantly delete threads like these and suppress any kind of outside thinking then you have an echochamber not a forum.

this is spot on.

But even worse, a DPS meter is not a good predictor for performance. It is feedBACK not feedFORWARD. It feeds you back the info from your performance. If you boot someone for bad dps, you would have to do it well into the run to where it wouldn’t be worth it at that point.

A zerker gear ping will still be the king in reinforcing zerker only groups.

melodyca.8921:

Scrambles.2604:

melodyca.8921:

Lankybrit.4598:

Hi,

Still no way to view our characters online? That would be awesome, don’t you think. It hasn’t been implemented has it?

We don’t need anything added that encourages elitism.

What? Don’t guilds encourage elitism? Doesn’t competitive pvp/wvwvw encourage elitism? Doesn’t a competitive trading post encourage elitism? Doesn’t a group vote kick encourage elitism? Doesn’t a LFG with group description encourage elitism?

People encourage elitism. Complain about player behavior, not the tools or potential tools we have access to.

Because tools would only add more elitism now. I am not Zerker. I have builds specific for sPVP, WvW, and Dungeons. I don’t need some arrogant brat telling me what I should I do just because of a meter. I hope it NEVER happens.

because of a meter? this is about armory. Take your fearmongering, anti-elitism rhetoric to that other thread.

Just advertise or join “all classes welcome” groups and you will reduce the amount of jerks you run into. Or stop pugging… jeez it’s not that hard to group with chill people.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Scrambles.2604:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Scrambles.2604:

Ultimately I think there are just technical limitations that would prevent data from every player around you from being displayed in your combat log, as well as it being a low priority. Unless you wanna purchase a combat log upgrade for 1200 gems, haha.

I know a game that has such a combat log. It can be very annoying when you’re trying to observe your own performance. Even if there is no back-end technical reason in GW2, the front end issue of limited window size plus damage figures from all and sundry make seeing your own a pain.

WoW had a combat log that pulled from your group or everyone around you. But you could also filter it to just show your damage, and display that filter in a separate window.

This is without mods/addons.

But WoW also had a pretty fantastic and maliable UI. I think Anet wants to avoid UI stuff so you can focus on the epileptic particle effects, however :/

Yeah… the game I was referring to was CO, which did not have a filtering option. As to UI, I agree that GW2 lacks desirable UI customization features, and that for whatever reason ANet wants me to look at FX that give me headaches. For that reason, I’d prefer that if a feature to see others’ damage were to be implemented, it be in the combat log or via a command rather than putting more visual clutter on the screen.

One of my most memorable moments from WoW was when my guild beat BWL (40 man raid) for the first time. What was memorable about it was when we checked the combat log after the fight, the last bit of damage that killed Nef (the last boss in BWL) was a poison tick from one of our rogues. We all thought that was pretty hilarious.

It would be like if the first time your guild downed Teq it was because of a burn tick or something relatively insignificant that finished him off.

Not having that kind of info isn’t game breaking or anything, but having the info on that little poison tick from the combat log to reflect on really stuck out for me and made it really memorable.

melodyca.8921:

Lankybrit.4598:

Hi,

Still no way to view our characters online? That would be awesome, don’t you think. It hasn’t been implemented has it?

We don’t need anything added that encourages elitism.

What? Don’t guilds encourage elitism? Doesn’t competitive pvp/wvwvw encourage elitism? Doesn’t a competitive trading post encourage elitism? Doesn’t a group vote kick encourage elitism? Doesn’t a LFG with group description encourage elitism?

People encourage elitism. Complain about player behavior, not the tools or potential tools we have access to.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Scrambles.2604:

Ultimately I think there are just technical limitations that would prevent data from every player around you from being displayed in your combat log, as well as it being a low priority. Unless you wanna purchase a combat log upgrade for 1200 gems, haha.

I know a game that has such a combat log. It can be very annoying when you’re trying to observe your own performance. Even if there is no back-end technical reason in GW2, the front end issue of limited window size plus damage figures from all and sundry make seeing your own a pain.

WoW had a combat log that pulled from your group or everyone around you. But you could also filter it to just show your damage, and display that filter in a separate window.

This is without mods/addons.

But WoW also had a pretty fantastic and maliable UI. I think Anet wants to avoid UI stuff so you can focus on the epileptic particle effects, however :/

that would be cool and i’m all for it but don’t be surprised if you get some resistance on the boards.

With armory, zerkers could see your non-zerk gear and remove you from their zerk only group. And apparently everyone wants to join the zerk groups in non-zerk gear so this would create an issue.

Rule of thumb: If WoW has it and GW2 doesn’t already have it people will be against it.

I would love some more combat feedback and at this point i would be ecstatic if i could just move the combat log to a separate window.

I’m not afraid of being potentially judged by my performance, berrated by “elitists” or being kicked from groups. That is all nonsense.

Ultimately I think there are just technical limitations that would prevent data from every player around you from being displayed in your combat log, as well as it being a low priority. Unless you wanna purchase a combat log upgrade for 1200 gems, haha.

hey guys, its me Scrambles, your friendly open world duels advocate. Here is the thread-killing interview link i post in every duel thread. Skip to 14:11 if the video doesn’t start from there.

Considering this game is largely based around cosmetic sidegrades and we are just getting the wardrobe more than a year after the games release, i would project duels to be implemented in about another year, or after the second living story.

But the important part is that there is strong evidence that Anet is fully in favor of open world duels. They just gotta figure out how to make money off of it without driving everyone from the game :P

Ignore the naysayers. Anet has said they would like to add duels in the long term.

Adding a drum would be a cymbal for all that is good in this game. An addition for which we can bass all other instruments.

If i happen to brush up to another player that doesn’t like the drum, i will tip my hi-hat to him and tell him to turn down the instrument volume control. It’s about tom they add a drum to the game!

Wolf.5816:

Since most of the posts in these related topics are biased it would be interesting to hear what some of the developers from Anet think about what the “Pro’s vs Con’s to Dueling” would entail instead of the other way around.

Here’s an interview with Colin Johanson where he says he would like to add open world duels and acknowledges that custom pvp is an awkward work around. These videos link weird on the forums so if it doesn’t start from the correct time, he says it around 14:11.

IMO, it sounds like it was just one of the many features they wanted but didn’t get finished in time for launch.

“In the long term, we would absolutely like to have some form of dueling in the game or in the open world where you can challenge and fight other people.”

Cynic.4805:

Bring on the mobs, best part of wow dueling is when someone gets hit by a boar at the end of a duel, with only 1hp remaining. It adds a bit more… excitement

I used to hang out near orgrimmar on my alliance druid and pick off duel losers with their one health. Good times!

so if you play PvE, you get 80 levels to try out each skill and trait. In the time it takes to 80, it’s hard not to experiment with every skill, even the ones that end up rarely used.

If you want to play PvP, there is no hand holding. There is no slow introduction to skills/traits, and their effects on other players. You get a full lvl 80 character and you are expected to know what to do with it. Or you can try WvW, which can be just as, if not more overwhelming.

Dueling fills the gap, by allowing players to experiment with skills and their effects on other players while leveling up. PvE players might be more likely to play PvP if they are able to dip their toes in the water instead of being forced to jump into the deep end.

Imbune.5497:

I keep hearing ‘dueling is something to do while waiting on an event’…well, I guess pleasant, polite conversation is a lost art now? It’s not my fault you’re socially inept, unable to understand and see the value in different view points so you have to resort to bannin-erm, I mean calling other people names and insulting them for the heinous act of thinking differently (‘carebears’…really do you think that makes you sound cool? Couldn’t be more embarrassed for you).

Aside from the lunacy of wanting 1v1 in a game that isn’t balanced around 1v1, I’m in the camp that if you want pvp head to the pvp zones. You can add your duelling option for the kids there (hurrah for condescending name-calling). The funny thing is when they add it (‘not high on the list’ isn’t a ‘no’ afterall) you can bet you’ll see a flood of ‘ZOMG THIEF OP-I CAN’T WINS DUELS!’ and demanding various changes based on that. Of course people will say the game wasn’t balanced around duels and so it doesn’t matter to which the most logical argument would be ‘well why bother adding a mode to the game if you’re not going to balance it’. Yeah…can’t wait till that happens.

When they add dueling I’ll just preemptively disable whispers…and I hope they added an auto ‘turn down duel request’ button simultaneously. Also expect to see a crapton of particle effects all over the major cities/hub if/when one resurfaces…who needs a stable framerate in towns anyway? Ah…I can just imagine what map chat will now look like as well…yup, looking forward to this degradation.

“why do you guys want to fight i just want to talk”

Yeah that is probably the most carebear thing i’ve ever heard.

add duels and then make it a free trial weekend = BANK!

None of my friends could get into GW2. They wanted to pvp, so they tried sPvP, but were overwhelmed by trying to fit a full lvl 80 character with weapons and traits since they were brand new to the game.

Then they tried WvW, which was just as overwhelming, and of course they never got a chance to practice any 1v1s there.

I think giving new players the opportunity to practice dueling with skills while leveling up will help retain more players that aren’t just looking for a PvE experience.

The PvE experience has a learning curve, where PvP just throws you in the deep end. I only stuck around because i both enjoyed the PvE and had the patience to figure out sPvP/WvW.

Wanze.8410:

Please dont open new threads on already existing topics:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Why-is-there-STILL-no-dueling/first

That one even got dev replies.

this is cool, i’ve never seen a duel thread with dev replies. Naturally, your post got ignored so everyone could keep arguing, haha.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Scrambles.2604:

So you play a warrior (a heavy armor user with the highest defense) and you get mad that others are dropping while you refuse to take hits for them? Why else would a warrior have the highest defense if they weren’t supposed to take damage?

Personally, i don’t really know why they didn’t just give everyone the same amount of total defense if they intended for everyone to be responsible for their own survival, instead of depending on teammates in order to survive.

Health and armor are only one means to generate sustainability. Guards have heavy armor and a lot of mitigation options, but low health. Warriors have heavy armor, less mitigation options, and high health. Thieves have medium armor, low health, but have a lot of dodge/evasion. Etc.

Argue all you want about whether there is sustainability balance between professions, but heavy armor is not meant to allow you to just take hits.

Yeah, but in a team environment, you would want the person best suited to take hits to be able to do that.

It doesn’t do anyone any good when a boss is chasing a thief around, but if a guardian or warrior can keep a boss occupied in one place then everyone else is free to safely do their damage.

Other classes could fill this role, too, but warriors and guardians are best suited to do so. And since they are given higher armor than everyone else it seems like it was intended. Other classes can mitigate damage as well, but are not aided with the passive, 100% uptime that high defense offers.

EverythingXen.1835:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I don’t play the meta build, i make my own groups, no one cares. I roleplay and RP walk in dungeons, because they are my groups. Join better groups! There will always be a best group. There will always be a best build. But the wonder of gw2 is that you can do anything you want to, literally, and still complete the content.

There’s no reason to do anything I want to.

In GW2 PvE, DPS and “tank” and “healer” all play exactly the same. A Guardian who builds “tanky” still has to dodge all the big OHKO’s someone who built glassier does. An Ele who builds more supportish can never provide enough support to themselves (or others) enough to prevent/recover the damage from the same attacks… and also end up dodging the same attacks.

The only difference between a DPS, tank, support, CC, condition, or any other build in PvE is the amount of damage each one brings. Any other playstyle, even min maxed to the utmost, is not enough on its own to make any difference in the fundamental gameplay.

Your toughness will never be enough to take a hit that a class built with more damage wouldn’t also get killed by.
Your healing power will never be enough to keep you sustained in a fight. Mostly because forgoing the damage you’d cause to build that way makes the fight that much longer.
CC works well enough when coordinated with everyone else in the group… but I shouldn’t have to get on teamspeak to make a playstyle effective and rewarding by interrupting the only attacks that matter thanks to Defiance. It’s easier just to dodge.
Conditions, while effective, are very limited because of the cap.

I don’t want a trinity either. I don’t want a guy on point insulting mobs’ mothers to make them all attack him… and I don’t want to force a guy to watch my HP to the exclusion of all else just so we can succeed.

But I do want those “roles” to matter enough that my gameplay experience changes… and not just in the way that it takes longer to kill things.

I agree on everything besides your narrow interpretation of trinity roles. A healer can get by watching bars, but a GOOD healer watches the combat to anticipate attacks for big/small heals, watches for dps pulling aggro, etc. Same for tank/dps…if you explain what the class brings to the table at a bare minimum then of course it’s going to sound boring.

Personally, i like the way LoL handles teams roles and i think GW2 could take betters notes from that than WoW. But i do miss the interdependence and teamwork from WoW compared to the 5 people soloing a dungeon together in GW2.

Dean Calaway.9718:

This is all kinds of wrong, you are responsible for your survivability, even as a thief, if you keep dying get off the full zerker gear.

Personally when I do dungeons with pugs I bring my sentinel warrior because I just know I’m gonna be picking everyone from the floor with a spatula, is that what you mean by “needing a tank”? Because honestly I can’t (and I shouldn’t have to) take a hit for you, YOU are responsible to keep yourself alive.
And why would you want a holy trinity anyway? To queue for hours waiting for a healer?

As far as end game goes, no, what you have in WoW is a gear treadmill and an expansion on the kings birthday.
You basically sit around town while you wait for the next run you’ve done a million times before.
With GW2 every other week or so there’s something new to do, frankly I would quit GW2 if it got like WoW.
I like GW2 the way it is, can it be improved? Obviously, should it be molded to try to please people that don’t really like it? Absolutely not.

so you play a warrior (a heavy armor user with the highest defense) and you get mad that others are dropping while you refuse to take hits for them? Why else would a warrior have the highest defense if they weren’t supposed to take damage?

Personally, i don’t really know why they didn’t just give everyone the same amount of total defense if they intended for everyone to be responsible for their own survival, instead of depending on teammates in order to survive.

If the intention was for heavy armor user to withstand/mitigate more damage with stats rather than avoid damage like lesser armor classes (thief stealth/ele myst form) then i don’t know why they didn’t give wars/guards the tools to maintain enemy aggro.

i don’t think the trinity is the answer. The game just needs a more predictable measure of aggro. No one really knows how aggro works and there is no certain way to determine who a boss decides to focus his attention on.

It would be nice if you could actually build your character beefy, and then command the attention of the boss your fighting.

Since the boss goes after everyone, either everyone builds tanky to soak up the damage or everyone builds glass cannon to reduce the amount of time the boss can spend going after everyone. The glass cannon option seems to be the best option.

yeah it is really annoying. I can’t tell you how many times i’ve gotten “error attempting to sell” so i alt tab to let it chill for a minute.

30 minutes later i wonder why guild wars 2 is open and then i realize i was in the process of selling stuff and totally got caught up in something else, haha.

I think it is to prevent bots, but every MMO i’ve played seems to have managed to get around this so i don’t know what the deal is.

Devata.6589:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Devata.6589:

I don’t really care about all the exact stats. If I can do the content I am fine, it’s just not something I care much about. And food, I almost never used ‘foods’ in any game. I have always seen it as a form of cheating.

scratches head

That there is a new one.

Well it’s the truth. Luckily I also almost never need to use it (in any game). I always play games in hard and still consider many games easy.

I don’t think you could say I am a ‘noob’ in general but what I am trying to say is that I simply don’t like the number crushing element that you see so much in MMORPG’s.

do you upgrade your gear? Or do you still use the low lvl blues? Not hating just curious.

I’ve been advocating for better combat logs for a long time, and this is just the sort of situation where parsing combat data really shines.

Take the battle for lions arch for example. I’ve learned the fights thoroughly and can dodge all the telegraphed attacks without much issue now, despite a few hiccups now and then. So the only thing left for me to get better at for this encounter is my damage.

But what feedback do i get on my damage? I see the numbers, yes, but relative to what? I have no idea how i measure up to other characters on the same event. And i don’t mean to say this as “hur bro ur dmg sucks” i mean this as “am i doing at least above average damage for this fight?” “Is my damage severely lacking, should i consider rebuilding for this event?”

We receive no feedback that our damage is lacking until you realize you’ve been blasting the knight for 20 minutes and he’s still at 50% health. And even then, your damage might be fine and the damage from other might be what’s lacking…there really is no way to know.

Once you have your dodges down, all that is left is to get better at doing damage, but there is nothing that indicates your damage is sub optimal or you have room to improve.

This is why so many people result to cookie cutter builds online, because there is no way to easy test your own builds so you are probably better off using what the forums agree is the optimal build.

Ashen.2907:

Those arguing that people who would want an auto-decline toggle if open world dueling is implemented are “lazy”, or telling those people that if they are being harassed by duel spamming griefers that it is their own problem and that it is their responsibility to figure out how to not be griefed, are not doing their position much good.

To be honest the individual making such statements really comes across more as a duel hater who is attempting to torpedo the suggestion by acting in a manner consistent with some of the concerns expressed by those who are doubtful about the suggestion.

I know that I, even though I support open world dueling as an option (but only if an auto-decline option exists as well), have had momentary second thoughts based on some of the comments in this thread.

i agree with this sentiment, and totally agree that an auto-decline duels would fix a lot of hypothetical issues.

But honestly, these issues are just that, hypothetical. The concern that people would exist solely to troll and duel spam is majorly overblown, and i would consider it a non-issue in the grand scheme of things.

There are plenty of successful MMOs that get by fine without a duel request block. Just because there is a potential for abuse doesn’t mean it will be the rule rather than the exception to the rule.

There are many tools in place in the game that could be abused in the same manner, but apparently just because the potential exists doesn’t mean people actually take advantage of it at the intentional expense of others.

That being said, i have no problem with an auto-decline duels option, besides the fear-mongering that have led to that proposed tool in the first place. I think it is a solution for a non-issue.

But just in the same way open world duels wont effect those who choose not to participate, an auto-decline duel feature would not effect me either.

Xia.3485:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Anyway, I don’t see why people hate duels. Preventing spam is an easy fix, so why don’t you duel haters let people play how they want?

It would actually remove the dueling elements from WvW, which is good for WvW imho.

So not only does it not bother the PvE’ers among us, and lets us play how we want, it also fixes a small issue in WvW.. where bodies are in the map but not contributing to the world score.

i agree completely and think this is a major point the “leave duels in spvp and WvW only” crowd chooses to overlook or doesn’t care to consider.

i’m all for open world duels, but open pvp is something that needs to be built around from the beginning, not added later as an afterthought. WvW is a good outlet for this, and i would advocate for the addition of new areas with PvE goals but allowable open pvp.

The best part about open pvp is you don’t know when to expect it. I have fond memories of contested zones in WoW, just leveling up a little toon all by myself when out of no where “BAM” a horde character gets the jump on me and we duke it out. Sometimes i get outright ganked, but when you manage to overcome your foe it makes all those gankings and corpse campings worth it.

That being said, WvW isn’t the best replacement because it is a PvP zone first with very little PvE. A proper open pvp zone needs to be PvE minded firstly, with allowable open pvp to add excitement and break up the monotonous questing.

I like the idea of seperating the teams based on your Order. That would add variation to the races involved (instead of making teams based on race) and would give an actual purpose to being part of an Order.

@ tomlin

my bad dude, i read your earlier posts and i definitely agree with you. The posts i quoted of yours made it seem like you were against the idea of dueling because you didn’t want to see pop-ups on your screen, which i guess we all agree can be easily avoided with some in game tools and a healthy dose of common sense

If people really wanted to troll with duel requests, they would probably already be doing it with invite requests, which i imagine doesn’t happen very often in game.

Xia.3485:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Well, here’s a suggestion. Practice your ignoring skills by starting with me, since you probably should start for when and if they release dueling without an Auto-Decline button! You know what they say right? You can never be too prepared, and practice makes perfect.

Knowing anet it will be much like the current costume brawl mechanic. i.e. you’d need to make yourself available for duels for them to happen.

I’m not sure I understand why everyone is so kitten about the concept of dueling. Some of you are behaving like they’re implementing open world PvP… like you’re going to get ganked while using the TP.

i find that, any feature that isn’t already in GW2 that WAS in WoW usually meets opposition. If it was a feature that WoW had that already exists in GW2 then there are no issues. It’s weird, but people actively fear the “WoWification” of the game, while at the same time ignoring all the ideas used in GW2 that were originally polished by WoW.

Make a thread about duels, inspect, improved combat log/parsing, mounts, etc, and people will be up in arms. I don’t play WoW and have no plans on returning, but i can at least acknowledge what an enormous, positive influence it’s had on the MMO landscape.