Guild Wars 2

Algreg.3629:

phys.7689:

Algreg.3629:

you are not introvert – more of that later. I am introvert. Prolonged social interaction exhausts me. Still I do fine in social environments and eg. am especially good at presentations. It just takes more effort than for extrovert persons.

If you cannot interact with lines in a chat window – and people are nothing more in a mmorpg unless you invest in them – you are not introvert. You suffer from a rather manifest case of social anxiety. This is an ailment. A game company should not design their game around single cases of psychological disorder. You on the other hand should seek out treatment as your condition is probably affecting your life way beyond a computer game. Again, social anxiety does not equal “introvert”. I am not mocking you here. Seek help, I recommend CBT.

An interaction doesnt need to have physical body to be social. People speaking in text are still people.

The fact that you see these interactions as just lines of text gives some context to your posts.

I think the idea of an mmo is supposed to be able to work with solitary people, the problem is not everything can be for everyone and also there are limited resources

I also wrote unless you choose to invest in them. And even you will understand that even though written text by strangers is social interaction, in the anonymity of the internet it carries way less impact than interacting with people present as complete personas. But I can appreciate your little forum crusade here, the context of your posts have always been clear to me anyway Always caustic against all those big, bad elitists. Well, see that as my contribution to society, arguing fervently against the holier than thou collectivist type.

But it still takes its toll on introverts. I should know, I’m an introvert. An introvert who works in retail. When I come home, I’m mentally exhausted, especially if it’s been a long, busy (customer wise) day. I don’t want to have to interact with others in game to have fun. Because I’ve already reached my quota for social interaction for a good several hours.

That said, open world group content does not require the group to interact with each other. So unless the events there are on the order of Teq and Triple Trouble, then there’s not an issue for introverts.

thrag.9740:

Duke Darkwood.4237:

they were told, explicitly, what the Portal would offer them

That is actually incorrect. No one was told what the hours of the beta were ahead of time. In fact, that lack of information is exactly why so many players got burnt.

They knew it would offer them access to a closed beta. Closed betas do not tend to be for marketing, they tend to be for finding bugs. You can’t find bugs related to number of players on at one time if the players aren’t all on for a number of the same hours. So closed betas tend to be short. Not weekend long events.

The portal was clearly advertised for a closed beta. They did not have to spell out the day and hours the closed beta occurred on in order for people to have been told what it was all about.

It could also be down to a country’s laws as it pertains to contests and what not as to why some countries aren’t allowed.

So only those who buy HoT should have working servers? Is that what you’re trying to say?

Working servers should never be tied to buying or pre-purchasing an expansion pack or any form of DLC.

And I haven’t had any disconnects from the game at all. Ever.

eldrin.6471:

my point was that before the patch healing sig could out heal the dmg now it cant.
in fact before the patch it could out heal the dmg from 3 eagle raptors. Thats a big difference and since this is a discussion about broken down scaling i thought it relevant.

And maybe the healing signet out healing the damage is the very thing ANet changed downscaling to stop.

Don’t AFK in areas where there are enemies unless you don’t mind coming back to being dead or having broken/damaged armor.

Aenesthesia.1697:

nathanjameson.3542:

start with a warrior. simpler, more intuitive, and always in demand

And bo ring!

Maybe for you, but not for others including myself.

Algreg.3629:

you are not introvert – more of that later. I am introvert. Prolonged social interaction exhausts me. Still I do fine in social environments and eg. am especially good at presentations. It just takes more effort than for extrovert persons.

If you cannot interact with lines in a chat window – and people are nothing more in a mmorpg unless you invest in them – you are not introvert. You suffer from a rather manifest case of social anxiety. This is an ailment. A game company should not design their game around single cases of psychological disorder. You on the other hand should seek out treatment as your condition is probably affecting your life way beyond a computer game. Again, social anxiety does not equal “introvert”. I am not mocking you here. Seek help, I recommend CBT.

And she may not have social anxiety. OP may just be shy. Doesn’t like social interaction but not the point that the OP has an actual disorder. OP may also be an introvert as well (a lot of times the two coincide). But the issue here is shyness rather than introversion. Unless the OP has a job that requires a lot of social interaction. Then the OP just may not want to interact with others even in game.

thrag.9740:

Please guys, I am not saying I ever expected it to allow access to multiple events. I am not saying Anet ever blatantly lied. However, they were absolutely deceptive. That may or may not have been intentional, but it was the result.

What is the point of giving the beta to only people who prepurchased? Anet already has their money. Allowing the portal access to a single additional closed beta would make a lot of players feel like they were not deceived, and additionally it would let them see how fun HOT is, encouraging them to preorder.

It wasn’t deceptive at all. The previous betas were just a few couple hour events on a single day. There was nothing said that said that this one would be any different.

I didn’t farm it because I knew it was just going to be a few couple hour events on a day and not enough warning for me to guarantee I wouldn’t be working that day. So I didn’t farm it.

And the beta weekend event access is incentive to buy the expansion pack. Since it gives guaranteed access.

RocketLuke.8763:

SirDrygan.1823:

I usually wait for the portal to go away. Since unlike you who is impatience, I have all the time to wait for a second portal or wait for the trolls to go away.

Sorry for not enjoying trolling? Next time I’m born, I’ll make sure I’m a masochist.

Waiting for the portal to go away doesn’t mean you enjoy the troll. It means you aren’t feeding them. Trolls want the reaction. Don’t give them a reaction. Pretend like you just went suddenly AFK. They’ll get bored and leave.

Rynier.3629:

IM keen to see how they actually do it. They are in for a steep climb to do it . reversing payments will end up to hundreds of thousands in bank costs. They know what the license keys were that sold at certain prices. I would turn cd keys into " vouchers " where on a pre purchase website you type in the cdkey and it activates the discount just like a voucher would have. The problem with this method is it will take some time to do and ontop of that people are buying the game in full expecting discounts to their CC .

And sometimes you have to spend money to make money. They probably figured the increased profits from people buying due to the sweetened deal would outweigh the costs of implementing the sweetened deal.

Example:

If before the deal was sweetened the game would net $100K in sales.

The cost of the sweetened deal is $30K. The sweetened deal increases sales to $200K. A $70K profit.

thrag.9740:

Can we stop with this talk about who owes whom what. I’m not saying they owe us anything. Where exactly did I give you this perception of entitlement?

I am saying right now we have a poor situation where a large amount of players farmed for something and didn’t get to experience it’s reward. So, I think that situation could be improved by extending the portal to allow access to a single beta weekend.

Public relations matter, if Anet had told their customers ahead of time how restrictive the hours would be, no feelings would have been hurt. But they didn’t, and as a result a large number of players were left disappointed.

You said that the portal should give you access to the first beta weekend. Meaning that ANet has wronged you by not giving you access. That you are entitled to it.

And prior stress tests were short hours as well. Nothing indicated that that stress test event was going to be any different. For a stress test you can’t have hours that range too much. You need people to be online at the same time. Which means you have to limit the hours to keep people from being on at different times and keeping the number of players actively online and in the beta above the threshold you’re wanting to test against.

Beta weekend events are more for the marketing and hype it generates than actual testing. Yes, some bugs will be discovered and some players will treat it like a beta and look for ways to break the game. But most will just play. And note down things they need to stockpile to profit off of in the trading post.

Edit to add:

And if they did allow it, what if the first beta weekend event coincided with the weekend you had company? Or some other reason that would prevent you from getting online that whole weekend? Are you going to demand that you should get access to the second beta weekend because you couldn’t get access to the first and you got a portal to a stress test held during hours you couldn’t play the game during?

The line has to be drawn somewhere. And it was pretty clear that the portal was for a stress test. Beta weekend events aren’t stress tests.

thrag.9740:

I don’t think all the players who spent a lot of time farming to try a beta see it that way.

Fixed. Do you want to play games with semantics or do you want to discuss the real issue?

I agree with Nate.

No where did ANet say that the portal would be used for future beta access.

You chose to spend time farming for it. It’s unfortunate that it fell during a time you couldn’t participate in it, but that’s the way life goes. If they had chosen a different beta time that would have worked for you, someone else wouldn’t have been able to get it. They do not owe you anything for the fact that you couldn’t make the beta.

RocketLuke.8763:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Or easier don’t press ‘F’ if you don’t know who put it there, for what reason and where it goes.

And if the portals literally blocking something like a chest? Then what?

Wait for the portal to go away? I imagine unless it’s a pair of trolls, the portal skill has enough of a cool down that the troll can’t place it immediately after it disappears.

thrag.9740:

I don’t think the players who spent a lot of time farming to try a beta see it that way.

And how do you know that Nate wasn’t one of those players who spent a lot of time farming for one?

Duke Darkwood.4237:

And none of you noticed the thing I noticed about the armor, then?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/9/98/Mini_Revenant_Rytlock_Brimstone.jpg
(Not the best angle to show off the spikes; the armor’s shaded on this side and ALL looks dark.)

As I said: I haven’t seen such a fashion statement in 250 years.

And the armor could be hinting at possible new armor we get in HoT. He changed his armor to better handle the dangers he faced in the Mists and as he learned about being a Revenant. His old armor got damaged while in the Mists and he chose the current armor he has now by necessity rather than choice. Could be any number of reasons.

Phyrex.5174:

Friggarn.9451:

And there are several topics on this— and there were when Black Wings were for sale. These items have limited time solely to induce fever for sale and then post-sale will increase interest in those that do not have them.

Sorry.

But the thing is, this isint a situation that foster hype and need. By the very way this game work with microtransaction, chances are, if you want a certain item, youll always want it. Having it on sale for a very short period creates frustration, not hype or demand for the next time its on sale :/

That’s the thing. More people buy it because it is limited time only.

I’m not buying character slots and bank slots because I know they’ll be there tomorrow.

An item that’s limited time only, some are more inclined to purchase even without an immediate need because of the following: “What if that skin is the perfect skin for a future look? Will it return? Will I be able to afford it when it does return?” So some people buy it for the potential usage in the future. A future that may never arrive.

Limited time sales get people who don’t want the item right now but might in the future.

Because currently, there are no ascended recipes for trinkets. There’s no Insignia or Inscription equivalent.

When and if they decide to give us ascended jewelry, then there may be ways to change stats on them.

He just may not be using Sohothin primarily anymore. We likely won’t know until the Expansion pack hits.

I would assume so as that’s typically how refunds work. You get what you paid for it back.

nathanjameson.3542:

whatever you do, do NOT roll up an engineer or elementalist until you have a solid understanding of the game :p they are the nost intricate and subtle classes

Or at least go in knowing they are a harder class. My first was an elementalist, though I did a few levels as a warrior first during beta.

AzureSky.3175:

Seera.5916:

Where is this set of rules of what can and can’t happen with pre-purchases? I’d love to read it. There is no rule that states that pre-purchase incentives can’t change. There is definitely no law on it.

I don’t think there is one, and I don’t think that pre-purchase are really common either. But if you compare the concept of a pre-order to the concept of a pre-purchase, it’s just basic logic that the content of a thing you pre-purchase may not change, because it will definitely be unfair to at least some people. Example. You want to buy some noodles and really need a car. You can choose between two Editions.
Edition Alpha contains a cup of instant noodles for 1000$.
Edition Bravo contains a cup of instant noodles and a car for 10.000$.
Of course you choose Bravo, because you want a car. People start to prepurchase, and suddenly the company decides to add a free car of the same type to both Editions.
Edition Alpha now contains a cup of instant noodles and a car for 1000$
Edition Beta now contains a cup of instant noodles and two cars for 10.000$
What now? None of the editions content lost any value, there was only a free gift added to both of them. This would still be a screw over to all the people that bought Beta before the change.

And just so you don’t get a wrong idea, this is absolutely no comparison to what Anet did. Anet didn’t want to screw anyone over. I just try to point out that it is basic logic that pre-purchases must not change. I’ll accept being proven wrong if there will be any further price reductions or goodies added to Heart of Thorns before it gets released, or if you can show me any case of a pre-purchase in that one of these two things happened without allowing people to get a refund.

Seera.5916:

And again, you’re focusing on the differences while I was referencing their similarities.

Of course I do that, since there is no other way to show anyone that their comparison is not valid. I really fail to see any similarities, so I can’t even focus on them. You simply cannot compare buying something to pre-purchasing something, and if we cannot agree on that, then I guess our whole discussion about your car comparisons is futile anyway.

Seera.5916:

They didn’t remove anything from the Ultimate Package at all. They did not lessen it’s value either. His asking for more gems is crazy.

Correct. Thinking that way in the first moment when opening a thread is understandable in my opinion. Persisting on this would be wrong, yes. But he didn’t do that.

Seera.5916:

They gave an additional pre-purchase offer for veterans. What’s in the Ultimate vs what’s included in the pre-purchase offer are two different things.

It’s only two different things if you’re a new player, if you’re a veteran, the pre-purchase offer comes hand in hand with the respective edition, it’s tied to each other. You cannot buy HoT without the pre-purchase offer, you cannot get the pre-purchase offer without buying HoT.

Okay, this might be my last try: For him, and for me, it is just that something of high personal value (a first extra character slot) has been added to the Standard Edition, while something with no personal value (a second extra character slot) has been added to the Ultimate Edition. Even though the same things (things with the same objective value) have been added to both editions, things of completely different personal value have been added, a high personal value to Standard, no personal value to Ultimate. And this simply shifts our preference on what version to buy.
And this is all completely irrelevant to a person, that values the second extra character slot just as much as the first extra character slot, they’re just happy with the nice free bonus.
It’s not all about the objective value, but about the personal value. Some people love Rolex watches and are happy to pay thousands of dollars for them, because they have a high personal value to them. I don’t wear watches in general, so they don’t have any value to me and I wouldn’t buy them, even if I could afford them.

The perceived value changed. The actual value of the Ultimate Package did not. No matter if you are new or a vet. ANet is being nice and letting players exchange editions based on changes in perceived value.

It’s why as soon as I noticed there was an uproar over the content of the editions, I held off on buying, because ANet might do something that would affect either actual or perceived value.

And we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on the analogy.

Okami.2768:

Thank you guys for the quick responses!

Seera.5916:

Well, if you attach it to your current account and you pre-purchase before the end of July, you’ll get an additional character slot. This additional character slot is in addition to any added by the package you choose.

You’ll have to level up a character to level 80 before you’ll be able to easily explore the new areas that HoT adds. You may also need to be level 80 before you can apply an elite specialization, which would lock out another HoT feature until you had another level 80 character.

And don’t forget the limitation on new accounts as it pertains to gold and the NPE.

I’m fine with leveling up a new character to 80 as that is what I am planning to do anyway. I’m also fine with the limitation on gold.

The reason why I’ve considered buying HoT on a new account is to have the extra 5 character slots, and this way I can also have friends who might want to try this game be able to try Guild Wars 2 on my current account while playing with them on my new account (of course unless this is against ToS).

I’m just worried about any benefits to having more max level characters on an account (any stat gains or advantages?) and what I might miss out on if I’m not playing a head start account.

Letting your friends try GW2 out on the account would be a violation of the TOS and is likely a bannable offense.

PlatinumMember.5274:

MaXi.3642:

Tarkan.5609:

thats the new trait system
you take the order that was normal pre patch (for ele Fire, Air, Earth, Water, Arcana) and each line you use gets a 1, the other two lines a zero

why 1? because you can only choose full lines now, so using 60066 is just unecessary you could also use 80088 but well 1 fits the best :p

so why use old system of describing traits in a new system? when it could be like 2/0/4/2/6, it had a reason for numbers, but now? why don’t you just say fire/water/arcane? or even f/w/ar if you want it as short as possible?

Using 1,1,1,0,0 Is more universal and actually more reasonable than using F/W/A since it isn’t applicably to other classes. Having an unnecessarily complicated system just for its own sake is silly.

But for future new players who have no knowledge of the old trait system, is 1/1/1/0/0 easier to understand for them than calling them by names?

And why does it have to be applicable to other classes? Stats aren’t attached to the trait lines and different classes have different builds.

I also don’t see what’s more complicated about calling the trait lines by their names and not a number. A number that future new players may not be able to easily understand since they’ve never seen the old system.

Well, if you attach it to your current account and you pre-purchase before the end of July, you’ll get an additional character slot. This additional character slot is in addition to any added by the package you choose.

You’ll have to level up a character to level 80 before you’ll be able to easily explore the new areas that HoT adds. You may also need to be level 80 before you can apply an elite specialization, which would lock out another HoT feature until you had another level 80 character.

And don’t forget the limitation on new accounts as it pertains to gold and the NPE.

AzureSky.3175:

Seera.5916:

Pre-purchasing a game and buying a car both tend to require either knowledge that this is the perfect car/game for you or enough sweet deals added on to make you buy the car or pre-purchase the game. And not everyone falls for those sweet deals. And those sweet deals can change. And when they do change, the company is under no obligation to do anything about it. It’s those similarities that I’m pointing to, not their differences.

There may be sweet deals that change if you buy something. Everyone knows that.
There may be sweet deals if you pre-purchase, but they do NOT change. And what you buy does NOT change until you finally get what you pre-purchased. Otherwise you could pre-purchase my car and then I decide to remove the wheels and exchange the engine for a cup of instant noodles before I deliver it to you. But Anet (or ncsoft?) did change the deal for veterans, they changed the product that they pre-purchased, and thus it is completely acceptable if people want to cancel their deal and pre-purchase another version, or ask for different solutions. Pre-purchases may. not. change. until they are “delivered” (that’s why the free character slot for veterans isn’t advertised anywhere), and you can be absolutely sure that there will not be any other changing “sweet deals” until HoT is released.

Seera.5916:

He originally asked to be given gems in addition to the 4000 he bought with Ultimate to make up for the free character slot being added.

He asked to be given 400 additional gems, and he didn’t just pick a random amount here, but the exact amount that a person buying the Ultimate Edition, to whom the second character slot and the goodies from the Deluxe Edition are ‘worthless’, would need to break even and don’t feel like they made the worse deal now, that an extra character slot has been added to the Standard version.

What Anet appears to understand, but you do not seem to understand, is this:
If the only things of worth to a person are HoT, one character slot and gems, it looks like this:

• before:
  HoT = 45€
  Ultimate = HoT[45€] + one char slot[10€] + 4000 gems[50€] = 105€ of value for 100€
• now:
  (HoT + one char slot) = 45€
  Ultimate = (HoT + one char slot)[45€] + 4000 gems[50€] = 95€ of value for 100€

So the person would need 400 extra gems [5€] to get the 100€ of value for the 100€ he paid. This is, of course, only true for a person, that considers the Deluxe goodies and the second character slot as valueless. I can relate to this, because I was in this exact situation. A person thinking like that had a perfect deal in the Ultimate Edition before, but after the second character slot being added, the Standard Edition turns out to be the best choice for that person.
It’s all just a question of personal values.

But, of course, Anet couldn’t just give him 400 gems for free, otherwise they’d have to give them to everyone else as well. So, you are right, that idea wasn’t the perfect solution.
But the support found a solution that was acceptable for both sides, and so everything is fine now.

Seera.5916:

And he said if that wasn’t doable that he wanted to be refunded $25 but keep all of the goodies that the Ultimate version had.

That’s not a good solution, I agree with you on that.

Where is this set of rules of what can and can’t happen with pre-purchases? I’d love to read it. There is no rule that states that pre-purchase incentives can’t change. There is definitely no law on it.

As to your example of switching out my car for a cup of noodles, that’s bait and switch and is illegal. If I pre-purchase a car, I should get a car. And again, you’re focusing on the differences while I was referencing their similarities.

They didn’t remove anything from the Ultimate Package at all. They did not lessen it’s value either. His asking for more gems is crazy. They gave an additional pre-purchase offer for veterans. What’s in the Ultimate vs what’s included in the pre-purchase offer are two different things. You can’t bundle the veteran character slot into the cost of the Ultimate Package, because it’s not given to just those who pre-purchase the Ultimate Package.

ANet is being nice (really the only thing they can logically do and not have more bad PR) and letting players exchange their packages should they choose to do so if they pre-purchased before the veteran bonus was offered.

TJgalon.5012:

lol, that true, but to get to them, requires jumping puzzle so technically it 5, lol.

Find a friendly memser. Just ask in map chat for some help.

Ask a mesmer doing the Troll’s Revenge jumping puzzle if after they’ve finished one round of that jumping puzzle if they wouldn’t mind porting your partner through Sharkmaw as needed.

If she wants to do that first fall on her own, even with a mesmer helping with the jumping parts, have her at least temporarily trait the fall damage reduction trait.

mtpelion.4562:

Daddicus.6128:

Yeah, I’ve got one, but that’s still over 700 keystrokes. I wonder if a keyboard macro would violate the terms of agreement?

Yes.
The only type of “macro” permitted is essentially a key-bind. You cannot have a button perform more than one action making anything that most people consider to be a “macro” prohibited.

You can however bind your left click to your mouse’s scroll wheel.

Grym.4295:

Screw the Hero Points. Reaching level 80 is TOO easy. What really sucks is that some characters have changed so much that their current gear is no longer appropriate. For instance, I spent a lot of time finishing ascended gear for my Guardian. Now, having lost 200 points of armor, I’d have chosen different armor to reach that all-important 2800-3000 armor mark. Result? Guardian gets shelved… and a small list of reasons to keep playing shrinks further yet.

:(

Ascended equipment reset!!!

:)

Yeah. I’m aware it’ll never happen. Cheers.

They did add in ways to change the stats on ascended weapons and armor. You do lose any sigils or runes, but at least it’s something.

AzureSky.3175:

Seera.5916:

And it’s not off topic as I was talking short term. Not long term.

It’s still off-topic since there’s a huge difference between buying a car and pre-purchasing a car. That whole paragraph you typed didn’t relate to the situation OP is talking about in any way.

Yes there are differences, but there are also similarities. Pre-purchasing a game and buying a car both tend to require either knowledge that this is the perfect car/game for you or enough sweet deals added on to make you buy the car or pre-purchase the game. And not everyone falls for those sweet deals. And those sweet deals can change. And when they do change, the company is under no obligation to do anything about it. It’s those similarities that I’m pointing to, not their differences.

Obviously ANet is letting veterans get refunded for the entire price of the Deluxe and/or Ultimate and buy the Standard, but none of those options were what the OP was asking for. And it was what the OP was asking for that I said wasn’t going to happen, not that ANet wasn’t going to do anything.

The OP also edited out the options he initially posted. They were:

He originally asked to be given gems in addition to the 4000 he bought with Ultimate to make up for the free character slot being added.

And he said if that wasn’t doable that he wanted to be refunded $25 but keep all of the goodies that the Ultimate version had.

Gotejjeken.1267:

New trait system promotes power creep and is terrible.

he only people who like this are those running OP meta builds. Or PvE players who want to melt world bosses even faster so they can have more time to Silverwaste train.

Anet had no hope of balancing with just two GM’s…now we have three? Yeah, NO ONE saw problems a mile away from that!

I like the change. While my level 80 warrior may be decked out in beserker gear and had traits lined up with one of the various meta builds, I do not have Ascended gear or weapons, just a few trinkets. And I can’t do a rotation to save my life.

My level 80 elementalist is hybrid between zerker gear and related stats and clerics gear and related stats. And let me tell you, there’s nothing OP about clerics gear in PvE. I don’t WvW.

I also don’t do the Silverwastes train. I’ve never even seen Vinewrath, let alone defeated it. I’ve never even had a shovel enter my inventory. The only reason I’ve been in Dry Top and Silverwastes is for the Living Story.

So please, stop talking for everyone and stop assuming who likes what and who does not like what.

If you know you’re just going to get it anyway, why not pre-order/pre-purchase?

And some people have seen and heard enough to know they’ll get their money’s worth out of it. And that point where you buy vs where you wait vs where you don’t buy at all are different for everybody. Some people are more easily satisfied than others.

Jim.9532:

After much speculation about how Anet customer services would act on the issue I have been refunded the 10th character slot that I didn’t need for 800 gems. I think I’m satisfied with this. As for my requests in the original posts (now edited out) they may have been a little unreasonable but a guy’s gotta try! At the time of posting I couldn’t see anyone else on the forums, or talking about this problem.

Seera, your lack of understanding on this issue baffles me. It appears Anet do understand. Aside from legality they don’t want to upset the players. Anet can see that their behaviour around this release has not been ideal and they are making amends by offering various refunds. A commendable move.

Never said they would do nothing. Just that they weren’t going to do the two options you posted in the OP.

AzureSky.3175:

Seera.5916:

The exact same thing! They did not remove anything. They added something to the deal for veterans for all editions. Yes, that something changed which version was the ideal for you. But that does not mean they took anything from you.

Nobody ever said that Anet took anything from them. The point is that everyone has to decide for himself which edition they want to buy. For me, the Ultimate Edition was clearly the best choice in the former versions. In the new versions though, the Standard Edition is the best choice. If they should suddenly decide to remove the free character slots again tomorrow, I’d switch back to the Ultimate Edition, because it would be the best choice for me again!

And they do not have to do anything for you. If they did, car companies would have a nice dilemma. I buy a car on June 30. On July 1st they start offering a better sale. If I had known there was going to be a better sale, I would have waited. I can’t take the car back and be guaranteed that the dealer will let me switch out the deals.
You gambled that there would not be a better deal in the future. You lost the gamble. Even those buying today are gambling that there won’t be a better deal in the future as well.

And this is just bullkitten and completely off-topic. Almost all consumer goods will be worth much less after you owned them for a certain amount of time. Almost every game published in 2015 will be available for half the price in 2017. Everyone knows that, nobody complains about that and nobody is “gambling” on that.
But this here is not a purchase, it’s a pre-purchase, and as such, a customer can expect that the product will not experience any significant content changes from what is advertised, and that the product will not experience any price reduction until the day it gets released. Trust me, Heart of Thornes will only start to get cheaper after it is released, so we don’t gamble on anything here.

The OP did initially claim ANet took something from him.

And it’s not off topic as I was talking short term. Not long term.

Diantane.9504:

See you July 9th

Just to let you know, that the game does keep track of how much you’ve already downloaded. So you won’t have to download what you’ve already downloaded again. The percent complete will reset to 0%, but you’ll have less files for this patch to download. There is a chance for at least another patch in 2 weeks not to mention more bug fixing patches for this patch.

nexxe.7081:

This game desperately needs a public test server. WoW and Swtor have one, and other games as well, but it doesn’t really help in some of them because of the way they are set up.. If set up properly, it can request feedback forms in-game, with specific questions and surveys, gathering data on changes, such as the issues that Jon mentions in his first post. It’s just a suggestion.

And that assumes that players would answer those questions seriously. Free response would open up to random BS inputted in for those who don’t care and that’s a lot of time by people to read those free response. Multiple Choice won’t cover I like most of the change except for this one aspect and there are likely too many permutations of what they like vs not like in a system for them to put every single one.

The only way to be to not load the launcher until that July 9th.

There is no way for you to continue playing without patching. That’s the nature of MMO’s. Everyone has to be on the same patch level. They give players in game an hour buffer but that’s so that most players can finish the content they are currently doing.

Here’s a post by Jon Peters that describes the reasoning behind their decision to apply hero points for you:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-we-know/first#post5199666

KngGilgamesh.3481:

It was worse in the previous system since you had to unlock the traits one by one (you could only respec trait points not traits and if you didn’t have traits unlocked then trait points are worthless). Skills were just like they are now (no refunds). Keep in mind that getting to 80 gives little less than 400 hero points so 60 per line isn’t a lot and can be further increased by doing hero challenges (which you would have done anyway to unlock skills and get map completion).

It is objectively an improvement. You might not feel it now because you may not have gotten to 80 and have most of your traits still locked.

The system itself is an improvement. The implementation of it was not the best. ANet should have just let everyone choose where to assign their hero points. It’s not the end of the world since it’s not too terribly hard to get hero points, but no where near ideal.

Probably just a coincidence.

And looking in the ele subforum does put Earth as one of the possible lines for the new meta so it’s not as bad as it could be.

I should also say that them auto-placing the hero points was not the best idea they’ve ever come up with.

But you can switch out your specialization lines once you’ve spent hero points on unlocking them.

Aerlen.5326:

You can’t refund the traits though. I’ve tried. Over and over.

No, but once you open up another specialization line, you should be able to SWITCH to the new trait line.

So you may need to level up or do more hero challenges to open another specialization line.

Aerlen.5326:

No, you cannot. You are fully speced in Defence and stuck with it same as my level 30 Ele is now fully speced in Earth and I can’t do kitten about it.

Yes, you can. You may have to train more lines to open that possibility.

There’s a little arrow to the left of the spec line that you can click to switch out the specilization.

Tkosh.1923:

Looks like backwards marketing to me. The usual practice is always charge for the base (cheaper as time goes on) but NEVER charge 99$ for an EXP!! what a ripoff! I used the 99$ example because that’s what you have to pay for one, that’s right one character slot.

No, you can pay $75 and get one no matter if you are a veteran or a new player.

Veterans of the game (registered the game before Jan 23, 2015) get a free character slot if they pre-purchase any version of HoT. Including standard edition.

Jim.9532:

Seera, we won’t agree here. I’m no Lawyer but I feel this is against trading standards here in the UK. I quote the following in support of my plight

AzureSky.3175:

I just got an e-mail from the GW2 support, they understood my problem and are willing to help me out. They’ll remove my Ultimate Edition and give me a refund, then I can buy the Standard Edition afterwards. So if anyone is in a similar situation – contact support and they’ll definitely help you out.
Thanks again for the awesome support!

All the best

And that is not one of the solutions you said you wanted to happen in your OP. Nor have you said if that would be an acceptable solution.

And it’s against the law for companies to add to deals after it goes live? I highly doubt that.

Jim.9532:

Seera.5916:

But they didn’t remove anything so you didn’t lose money by the change.

Actually I did, because if the terms clear from the beginning I would have purchased Standard, not Ultimate. A saving of £45 (more than the cost of standard).

One of the reasons I didn’t prepurchase Standard is because it didn’t come with a character slot. I paid more because I wanted one. Now I’m getting a second character slot which I don’t need or want. I’ve paid more for something I don’t need, without being told before hand what I was paying for.

For clarity, the other reason I didn’t buy Standard is because the discounted gems were of interest to me. However understanding the current terms as I do now, I would not have bought Ultimate, I would of bought Standard. This is my grievance.

That doesn’t change the fact that they did not remove anything from the Ultimate package when they decided to give veteran players an additional character slot in addition to any the package they chose had.

Ultimate Package before hand comes with:

HoT
GW2 for those without it
1 minature
1 glider skin
1 guild hall decoration
1 character slot
4000 gems

Ultimate Package after the announcement comes with:

HoT
GW2 for those without it
1 minature
1 glider skin
1 guild hall decoration
1 character slot
4000 gems

The exact same thing! They did not remove anything. They added something to the deal for veterans for all editions. Yes, that something changed which version was the ideal for you. But that does not mean they took anything from you.

And they do not have to do anything for you. If they did, car companies would have a nice dilemma. I buy a car on June 30. On July 1st they start offering a better sale. If I had known there was going to be a better sale, I would have waited. I can’t take the car back and be guaranteed that the dealer will let me switch out the deals.

You gambled that there would not be a better deal in the future. You lost the gamble. Even those buying today are gambling that there won’t be a better deal in the future as well.

You can contact support and see what they’ll do, but I guarantee that they won’t do any of the options you posted in the first post. They didn’t remove anything from the deals so they don’t owe you something in exchange. And you have to be crazy to think that they’ll give you the Ultimate Package for the Deluxe Package price.

Any skill points that came from skill point scrolls got converted to Spirit Shards.

NONE got converted to Hero Points.

Hero Points ONLY come from leveling up from 1 to 80 and from Hero Challenges. Only.

They got consumed and turned into Spirit Shards.

Ranatoa.4869:

Seera.5916:

The skill points you had before the patch came from three sources:

Leveling up (either by playing or via tomes)
Skill Challenges
Skill Point Scrolls.

Hero Points are earned in two ways:

Hero Challenges (the old Skill Challenges)
Leveling up from 1 to 80.

Skill Points that had been earned by skill point scrolls or “leveling up” past level 80 were converted to Spirit Shards. About 400 or so of his skill points were from leveling up to 80 and skill challenges.

Leveling Up to level 80 and completing 65 hero challenges is enough to let you unlock everything we currently have access to.

Nope, they changed it. Level 80 is now enough to unlock all core skills/traits.

Nice, didn’t catch that change.

The skill points you had before the patch came from three sources:

Leveling up (either by playing or via tomes)
Skill Challenges
Skill Point Scrolls.

Hero Points are earned in two ways:

Hero Challenges (the old Skill Challenges)
Leveling up from 1 to 80.

Skill Points that had been earned by skill point scrolls or “leveling up” past level 80 were converted to Spirit Shards. About 400 or so of his skill points were from leveling up to 80 and skill challenges.

Leveling Up to level 80 and completing 65 hero challenges is enough to let you unlock everything we currently have access to.

But what if I like the game in it’s post June 23rd state? That would keep me from pre-purchasing.