Guild Wars 2

Therodin.2970:

Ayrilana.1396:

Therodin.2970:

They have changed the rules before when confronted with an argument. You can also walk through someones home instance as a group. The fact that multiple people can join the same home instance means that it is group content.

So because they’ve allegedly changed rules in the past this makes any of the current rules negligible? So if I post that I’m selling several precursor in my home instance, then that’s acceptable? After all, you can only walk into my instance if you’re in my group and that since multiple people can join a home instance then it must be group content.

If i say that something is against the rules but then never punish anyone for it, is it really against the rules? I constantly see people still posting this in the lfg and it is the same people week after week.

Are you reporting them or are you assuming someone else did?

You want required healers which is NOT what GW2 is about. GW2 is about being able to do group content with any combination of builds. All tanky builds, all glass cannon builds, all hybrid builds, or a combination of builds. All able to do content.

And not about waiting for players to come around to heal them.

Because ANet wanted to move away from dedicated healers, they had to put into place a means for players to stay alive. And they did this through self heals, active defense, support, and passive defense. And since this game is about active game play, they focused more on the active defense (dodges, moving out of range) over the passive defenses (armor stats).

The current meta of glass cannon is also an indirect result of the fact that the content being played has been around for 3 years. Just looking at builds, the most difficult one is the glass cannon. As it has no room (or very little) for mistakes.

When the game first came out, glass cannon builds were not the meta. Because we didn’t know the game as well as we do. And as we learned, more competitive players started looking for ways to up the challenge when the content became easier. This is when things like skipping and going toward more glass cannon builds started happening. And over time, more and more people skipped trash mobs and more and more people went more and more glass cannon. Until where we are today.

Until there are new dungeons, there will likely be no change in the PvE meta. When new ones are added, if they do ever add new ones, they will likely have their own meta which will gradually change into the most difficult set up like the current dungeons have.

The game does not have and hopefully will never have any dedicated roles.

Go look at the meta builds. And I mean really look at them. The rotations. The traits used. The skills used. Their gear may be DPS oriented, but their traits and skills are mainly support and control related. Necros aren’t highly wanted in dungeon groups not because of their DPS levels, they have high DPS levels, they’re not wanted because of their lack of group support.

Rymer.4017:

Seera.5916:

5. That’s the thing, in this game, the trinity of damage, support, and control are all done within your own character. No one character focuses solely on damage. No one character focuses solely on support. Or control.

This game is balanced around active defense. AKA: let’s avoid taking damage or getting controlled. Dodges, reflects, protection, stability, stun breaks, etc.. People who spec for pure heal support in a good group will have very little to do. Because everyone is avoiding getting hit or avoiding damage through active defenses.

I have run many zerk groups and heals get used as much as your active stuff does cause its active to along with many skills that trigger heals on effect and can be seen in many speed runs done by some of the top guilds on youtube there using there heals just as much to add extra dmg reduction with it. See that is how healing works here in GW2 is it works as a damage sponge just like protection reduces the damage you take healing does the same thing but retroactively.

This whole thing were zerkers never take damage is a farce and big one cause you will always take damage there is no way to stop it for a whole fight unless you cheat. And yes I do run zerker runs in dungeons when I want to get tokens fast. I have never seen one where you did not take damage at all except against normal mobs not bosses you will get hit there and 90% of the time the guard or ele with pop off a heal to give there team back health.

The reason ranger and necro are not liked in dungeon runs is cause they do not bring a thing to the group via damage reduction with reflects, condi cleanse, Protection, and retaliation they dont have alot of that even though the ranger has more condi cleanse then most they do not do the rest. But they could bring heals that work in the same manner and keep the team alive just as well sense zerks does not require as much healing heck regeneration can cover the loss almost. Joking but really the reason why so many play zerks is because its more effective way to use there time to earn gold faster sense everything melts away faster.

Look at all other mmo’s the trinity went from tank, healer, dps, support, off tank, and control to tank, healer, and dps because it made things faster and easier to manage not just for the devs but the players as well. Here we have a huge amount of build options but when the game released the first thing many did was start looking for the best dps and it stuck because it was faster and more effective way to do dungeons and bosses pretty much everything but soon this will change with the new AI coming with HoT owe and if you do not know about the new AI here take a look.

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1021848/Building-a-Better-Centaur-AI

That will explain it all and if not tech savy go to about 24 mins and watch it in action for your self and yes this is mob AI that is coming with HoT. This will be fun to see the forums light up with the games to hard till everyone figures out the new AI. Then it will go right back to this games so easy my cat can play it.

Good zerker groups don’t take enough damage to warrant a dedicated healer given active defense and their own healing skill. That better?

1. Only the jerks think that all players who use non-meta gear are horrible players. Meta players themselves encourage new players to use more defensive gear until they get better at the game before going full-meta. All they ask is that non-meta players respect their LFG’s and not join their groups. And that’s not too much to ask.

2. Necros and Rangers suffer from the too many have played them bad and jaded other players. Bad impressions can take a while to go away.

3. Flavor of the Month? I thought you were complaining that only one gear set is king? How can it be Flavor of the Month gear wise but only one gear set is king? Not sure what you’re complaint here is due to that contradiction.

4. I used to run full Clerics gear (Healing Power main, Power, Toughness) on my Elementalist with a build meant for personal survival. I solo’d 90% of the map completion I did on that character. That 10% was mostly not solo’d because other people happened to be there, I did not ask for assistance. I only asked for assistance for a few skill challenges that were just too difficult (and would have been too difficult for my skill level no matter the gear and build I had). There are only 3 slots on armor for gear and you only have so many traits you can have. You have to give up the usage of several stat modifiers or opt for a minor boost to everything on your gear. You give up the usage of 2 trait lines no matter which 3 lines you go for. If you choose more defensive gear and more defensive traits, you are more likely to have to give up offensive options.

I didn’t feel too terribly underpowered and only geared to meta when I started doing dungeons for tokens for my legendary. And only then to increase the number of groups I could join. I knew I could find groups that would have accepted my previous build.

5. That’s the thing, in this game, the trinity of damage, support, and control are all done within your own character. No one character focuses solely on damage. No one character focuses solely on support. Or control.

This game is balanced around active defense. AKA: let’s avoid taking damage or getting controlled. Dodges, reflects, protection, stability, stun breaks, etc.. People who spec for pure heal support in a good group will have very little to do. Because everyone is avoiding getting hit or avoiding damage through active defenses.

6. The only way to make people go full healer in the meta is to make it required and that is not what ANet set out to do when they made GW2. They did not want a system where players had to wait for someone with a specific build/class combination to join their group.

You seem to be asking for required roles, which is something that a good majority of players do not want and bought GW2 for that specific reason. Which was what Basandra Skye was basically saying.

Wanze.8410:

Seera.5916:

Wanze.8410:

When the game launched, you needed to master nearly every aspect of the game in order to forge a legendary, lots of karma, world completion and skill points form pve, dungeon tokens and badges from wvw.

Since launch, alot new content and currencies were introduced, geodes from DT, crests form SW, commendations from guild missions, laurels or fractal relics and mist essences, new bosses and zones.

We have also seen alot of new reward structures, like champ bags, AP chests, collections wvw rank chests, pvp reward tracks.

I guess it would make sense, if Anet changed the forging process of the old legendaries in order to incorporate all these new content, currencies and rewards into it.

Until now, they didnt specifically state that the forging process of the old legendaries will stay the same, so they might just change it and they just didnt tell us about it to not upset the markets too much so far from launch.

They should leave the old legendary weapons using the current process. It would anger a lot of players who were in the middle of the process if they process suddenly changed and their work was invalidated.

New legendary weapons can get a new process of creation.

Adjusting the forge recipes doesnt neccessarily mean that current progress towards an old legendary will be invalidated. It could also mean that additional ways of acquiring the gifts are introduced, for example using geodes or bandit crests to purchase the gifts that usually came from dungeon vendors, for example, map completion could come from all the new zones and maguuma jungle completion.

I just dont see how it would be a good thing, if you have to grind 3 year old content in order to make an old legendary.

New ways can be added (either multiple recipes or multiple ways to earn things like there currently are for some non-gold requirements), but current ways shouldn’t be changed as that would mean some parts would be invalidated.

And why wouldn’t it be a good idea for that to happen as it means veteran players will be playing in areas where new players are. Especially seeing as how they are adding in new legendaries.

Wanze.8410:

When the game launched, you needed to master nearly every aspect of the game in order to forge a legendary, lots of karma, world completion and skill points form pve, dungeon tokens and badges from wvw.

Since launch, alot new content and currencies were introduced, geodes from DT, crests form SW, commendations from guild missions, laurels or fractal relics and mist essences, new bosses and zones.

We have also seen alot of new reward structures, like champ bags, AP chests, collections wvw rank chests, pvp reward tracks.

I guess it would make sense, if Anet changed the forging process of the old legendaries in order to incorporate all these new content, currencies and rewards into it.

Until now, they didnt specifically state that the forging process of the old legendaries will stay the same, so they might just change it and they just didnt tell us about it to not upset the markets too much so far from launch.

They should leave the old legendary weapons using the current process. It would anger a lot of players who were in the middle of the process if they process suddenly changed and their work was invalidated.

New legendary weapons can get a new process of creation.

ODB.6891:

doddbox.8153:

…I’ve also had mesmers that insisted they were faster than Guardians but refused to use portals, ever…

I’ve never understood the obsession non-mesmers have for portal in pve. Literally, the only real useful application of portal in dungeons/fractals…that hasn’t been patched out…is for covering for others failures. That’s usually on swamp…where a competent team can just do the same thing they do when there is no mesmer…and just run the correct path. I guess its useful on the harpy fractal, to compensate for someone who fails at platform jumping. I personally think that it is a waste of a utility slot, if it is purely to cover for fails. It certainly doesn’t make a player “faster” to use a portal…as the portal mechanic requires you to have already been to the location for it to teleport you back to that location.

Edit: forgot the one fractal where it actually is useful…the heat room in the reactor fractal.

Portals are also useful in Cliffside when you’re going up against the arms to get from one arm to another quickly.

Adrenalin.5719:

WvW is fairly balanced. Obviously it could be improved, but most of that would take away those precious resources, which are needed for HoT. Releasing versatile wvw infusions wouldn’t. I think it’s laughable to say this would be a too minor change while at the same time saying big changes take away too much. If you don’t want to invest much, at least do the the stuff which can be fixed easily.

Beside that I repeated several times that the 1% isn’t the only lackluster part about this crucial issue. Since you guys will ignore them anyways continuously, I just want to address the reasonable GW2 forum reader who may not have posted something here until now and gets deceived by these cheap manipulation attempts. Just scroll up a bit and read my posts.

There are huge population imbalances in some tiers due to the free transfers at the beginning of the game and before at least one of the WvW tournaments. Everyone stacked onto Tier 1 and left a lot of the lower tiers ghost towns.

And everyone already told you the other problems with it have solutions in game. And please stop assuming I’m not reasonable just because I disagree with you. I read your post and I read all of the replies. And felt that those who replied against your position offered up solutions to everything but the 1% damage. But also agreed with them that the 1% damage difference is no where near bad enough to place it high on the priority list among all of the other issues related to WvW, let alone the rest of the issues the game itself has in all areas.

SkullProX.7083:

DonQuack.9025:

In my experience pugging. People dont really get kicked for their builds or for being necro/ranger/w.e. They get kicked for being bad.

Not inexperienced but BAD as in you are told what to do and that advice is ignored.
Bad as in you aggro mobs before group is ready repeatedly
They get kicked when they run what they “want to” run instead of things that benefit the group. Ive seen many a mesmer/guard get kicked for not slotting reflects and watching teammates die. I suppose thats builds.

As for the special “healers” Ive yet to see one that can actually heal. They usually blast water fields when no one needs the heals and rage at the ele’s because they instadown from pretty much anything and they cant heal through it.

Actually no Ive een good healers.

in wildstar. :/

Yeah there are ppl who dont listen to advices, but there are new players who want to learn, but how, if everyone is only looking for full geared ppl. how can we? I mean everyone was a beginner once.

By starting their own LFG or joining LFG’s that reference they are new. There are people who do dungeon runs willing to teach them.

And if by chance all are new, then they get to learn the way the vets of the game learned: by playing the dungeon and trial and error. Back when the game came out, there weren’t dungeon guides on how to defeat Lupi or Subject Alpha.

A +1% damage bonus is not going to be the thing that primarily causes a tower or castle or keep to be taken. It’s the numbers of players on each side and the skill of the players. Uplevels in the best armor they can get can kill those guys and they have much less power than max levels in basic gear.

Given that there are worse imbalances in WvW, I would rather they focus on those imbalances and the other worse shortcomings of WvW over a +1% damage increase to only specific NPC’s. And I don’t even WvW as I don’t find it all that fun.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Go with a necro, you can’t get more second class that that.

Seriously though stick with ele, if you are already dexterous enough to play an engy, ele should be right up your alley. The ability to mitigate damage will come to you over time along with the timing for switching.

If you PUG dungeons, necrophilia might not be the choice if you want to do meta runs as a lot of meta groups will kick necro for various reasons.

I would price out making Meteorlogicus vs buying it outright on the Trading Post.

Then figure out how much you’d have to sell Incinerator for to do that and see if it’s possible to do that or if you would need to farm for more gold.

Maybe ANet should remove a few waypoints from map completion and make them account waypoints. Discover it on one and get it on all characters.

Dungeon waypoints, world boss waypoints, those kinds. Guild missions occur at too many places, however, to really be included.

And you only need to get to the map. If you’re in the map, someone else can start the instance and you’ll be able to join in.

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Sephius.2876:

• They said they would do a patch every two weeks to adjust balance in light of the huge balance patch. Have they? Nope. Have they even mentioned anything about it? Nope.

I keep seeing people say this on the forum but no source to back it up, I would like a link to the source please.

Likely this

JonPeters.5630:

Gotejjeken.1267:

Please, for a love of whatever of the GW God’s you choose…get a test server. It is just unacceptable to me personally to see an entire game get unbalanced and the community have to play the waiting game until things are corrected.

This happens, because as bright as the people balancing things are, they simply cannot predict what is going to happen in a mass environment with live players. Can run all the algorithms in the world and that won’t stop a few players from devising a way to totally ruin the game.

Also, I don’t think we should pin this on conditions being too strong. I think everything is too strong.

I understand that this would be helpful but in the absence of a test server, which is our current situation, we will do as much as we can as fast as we can. We made some changes today and more will be coming as the week goes on. After that our intention is to make balance and bug fix changes to this stuff every couple of weeks leading up to the release of HoT.

Also, not everything is too strong, just all forms of damage.

Jon

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-we-know/page/2#post5200018

Which isn’t a guarantee of releasing patches every two weeks. Just that that is what they intend to do, but plans can change. I’d rather a patch be delayed some than have the patch break more than it fixes or make the problem worse.

sorudo.9054:

i think you ppl are losing sight on the real issue here……

Why don’t you remind us what that is instead of just saying so. And who you mean by “you ppl” as there are two who are engaging in a back and forth that has gone past the realm of relevant (the back and forth on whether one can tolerate an intolerant person).

runeblade.7514:

Seera.5916:

And it goes fine for you. But the time you cost them, may have cost one of them the ability to do another dungeon run whereas if they had someone who did meet the requirements, they may have been able to do another run before having to go.

A few seconds longer?

I highly doubt it’s a few seconds longer. Otherwise soldier’s gear would be part of the PUG meta. And it’s not.

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

I don’t join casual groups because the run is never 100% fine. Usually, it is 40% that is fine.

It might go 100% fine but it definitely got slower and you definitely got carried even if just a little compared to everybody else. If I ever see you in my group its auto-kick for you. People like you are ridiculous. The same type who would cry if you were trying to sPvP or WvW and I kept joining your team with no armor on.

Except, I don’t cry about the zerker meta bullies. I embrace it.

This is more like other spvpers and WvWers cry at me because I play a non-meta build and they die a lot, so then they blame me.

You embrace it by ruining the game for other people. So basically you’re a rude jerk.
The irony and hypocrisy of screwing over other people who want to play their own way so that you can play your own way is just painful. This thread is going nowhere because it is full of self-righteous jerks like yourself who feel that because they “play how they want” it justifies kittenting on the playstyles of other people. Setting LFG requirements is acceptable, ignoring them and ruining the groups of those people is not.

Except, I haven’t ruin the game for other people. The runs goes fine 100% of the time. They don’t notice their experience being ruined at all.

It may be ruined. Just not ruined enough for them to bother dealing with it. Or that kicking you would ruin it more than carrying you does.

And it goes fine for you. But the time you cost them, may have cost one of them the ability to do another dungeon run whereas if they had someone who did meet the requirements, they may have been able to do another run before having to go.

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

You do realize you’re the reason why so many zerk players go off on players who join when they don’t fit the requirements? Because you happen to join in at a time when they don’t care to boot you (for whatever reason, the good players know the DPS isn’t up to par and the really good ones will know it’s you). Or you’re just really lucky and get into the groups that only put that requirement up to root out the worst players and you actually fit what they’re truly looking for. Then the next run things go differently. They don’t want to carry someone again so they’re more likely to kick someone and could be rude about it because they’re tired of carrying people.

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Why do you have an issue with meta players putting into their LFG that they wish to play with other meta players and kicking when players do not meet the requirement of being meta?.

Did I ever say that?
You assume I am arguing that people who say “play as you want” can critique “zerker-only” without being hypocritical because I support their view point.

I may merely be arguing a logic point because the WvW golem train bores me, and a flamely thread where people pretend excluding other players isn’t nearly as bad as the REAL exclusion being done to them by people not liking that they exclude other players isn’t immediately a good distraction.

Myself blocking people who ask for gear pings or AP requirements is because I dislike the distrust from gear pings for many reasons and I think anyone who believes AP is a measure of skill has a logical deficiency that would make for a displeasing playmate.

I also minored in philosophy, which really just means I like arguing.

EDIT: Mexican food is amazing. I’m glad your opinion about it is not wrong :P

At least we agree on a few things. I also agree that AP is not a measure of skill.

It only really is only a measure when compared to total hours played. And even then only how much of an AP hunter you are or are not. Very few achievements require actual skill to be able to achieve them. So having high AP isn’t an indication of skill. Especially now that there have been a few really good sales on the game and the dungeon elite have secondary accounts they do play on. They’re very skilled but get kicked due to low AP…

So you’re in here playing Devil’s advocate and arguing against the current LFG because you saw no one else in here doing it but don’t necessarily think it’s pure evil that people put in requirements? Just don’t like the ones that use requirements that you view are meaningless?

Marthkus.4615:

You don’t select groups in WoW LFG. It makes a group and then puts you all in it. You just tell the LFG if you are tank/healer/dps.

You can’t do fract 50 without AR now. Agony is constantly applied as an environmental effect. Nor could you have ever pugged such a group.

I never asked if you would be successful if you pugged it. Just could you use the LFG to get people who wanted to do the same thing with you (like try to do Fractal 50 without AR now). Whether you’d be “successful” or not is another question. Successful in quotes because sometimes you do something to see if it’s possible and finding out it’s not possible is not really a failure.

Now which game, GW2 or WoW, has the better LFG is an entirely different question. And probably somewhat dependent on the content the tool is used for.

WoW’s LFG would be harder to troll as you’d be expected to compromise with your group mates or leave to try your luck again. Or get kicked if you caused trouble (if it’s even possible to kick in WoW if you use its LFG). But if two opposing sets of players got together it would be hard to determine which group should leave and which should stay and a compromise would likely have to be reached. And neither group would likely be entirely happy.

But GW2’s LFG does allow for players to segregate themselves so that compromises aren’t necessary and everyone can play how they want with others who feel the same way. But it does allow for trolling and jerk behavior a lot more than WoW’s.

Which system is better for GW2? ANet apparently thinks the LFG system we currently have. I highly doubt they didn’t consider something like WoW’s, but decided against it for reasons unknown to us.

And at this point going from what we have to a random group only LFG like WoW’s would probably hurt GW2 more than it would help. Which is why I suggest ANet adds it in as an additional LFG tool.

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

And you haven’t answered my why question.

Why do you dislike Mexican food? The why questions you asked me make about as much sense. I have no idea what you are going on about.

Why do you have an issue with meta players putting into their LFG that they wish to play with other meta players and kicking when players do not meet the requirement of being meta?

I happen to like Mexican food. I like it because I enjoy the flavor and texture combinations. If I didn’t like beans, I may not like a lot of Mexican food given how much of it features beans. But I like beans.

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?
Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

It’s not easy, but yes it is doable. People don’t normally do that stuff in WoW because it is harder.

It’s like how in GW2 you can solo Arah naked.

Which game has the most content that the average players with any variety of build combinations (form full meta to full non-meta) can complete given that they just have the average skill level? So they aren’t the top 1% that can solo Arah naked.

WoW.

Buddy of mine still plays it. Yes still Tank/dps/healer party comps but their LFG is automated and they made that tier of content fairly easy and in-no-way requires meta builds.

So can you LFG the current hardest content in WoW? in GW2?

You can’t LFG random PuG the hardest flavor of the dungeon, but you can run that dungeon on a lower difficulty.

I have never seen an anyone welcome fract 50 in GW2. At a bare minimum they require AR.

So the answer is no to both. You can’t LFG fract 50 in GW2 like the WoW LFG.

Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean you can’t. And my question was only a question on the ability to do so. Not whether they were for non-metas or metas.

People used to do Fractal 70’s or whatever it was before they reset the fractals with no AR or no where near enough AR on Rangers at one point. Because the Pets could help heal them from the downed state and get them past the agony attacks.

So the fact that you do see requirements in GW2 LFG’s is partly due to being able to PUG the hardest content. Be it Fractals 50 or seeing how fast one can get through a dungeon path.

If WoW’s LFG had, or if it does have, the ability to put a description in it, I’d be shocked if they didn’t have the same type of requirements.

I would not be opposed to an additional LFG that was an “I don’t care who I get put with, I just want to do a X dungeon/fractal and Y path/level”. So the current LFG would still be present for those who wish to be more selective. But a random more WoW type LFG would exist for those who truly don’t care.

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?
Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

It’s not easy, but yes it is doable. People don’t normally do that stuff in WoW because it is harder.

It’s like how in GW2 you can solo Arah naked.

Which game has the most content that the average players with any variety of build combinations (form full meta to full non-meta) can complete given that they just have the average skill level? So they aren’t the top 1% that can solo Arah naked.

WoW.

Buddy of mine still plays it. Yes still Tank/dps/healer party comps but their LFG is automated and they made that tier of content fairly easy and in-no-way requires meta builds.

NOTE: If you meant %content, then that might swing back towards GW2. Though between high level fractals and most people not having the dungeon master achievement, WoW still might win out. Since they introduced downscaling and thus all their old content is playable in a serious way with non top gear or meta comps.

Percent content definitely. Hard to really compare exact #‘s between a game that’s been out for as long as WoW has and a game that’s been out for as long as GW2 has and be fair to either game.

And you haven’t answered my why question.

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?
Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

It’s not easy, but yes it is doable. People don’t normally do that stuff in WoW because it is harder.

It’s like how in GW2 you can solo Arah naked.

Which game has the most content that the average players with any variety of build combinations (form full meta to full non-meta) can complete given that they just have the average skill level? So they aren’t the top 1% that can solo Arah naked.

WoW.

Buddy of mine still plays it. Yes still Tank/dps/healer party comps but their LFG is automated and they made that tier of content fairly easy and in-no-way requires meta builds.

So can you LFG the current hardest content in WoW? in GW2?

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?
Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

It’s not easy, but yes it is doable. People don’t normally do that stuff in WoW because it is harder.

It’s like how in GW2 you can solo Arah naked.

Which game has the most content that the average players with any variety of build combinations (form full meta to full non-meta) can complete given that they just have the average skill level? So they aren’t the top 1% that can solo Arah naked.

Seera.5916:

I just don’t understand why you have a problem with people wishing to play how they want to play with other people who want to play the same way as they do. And I’m trying to understand.

And as fair is fair, I’ll answer the reverse. Why I like that players can use the LFG in order to find other players who wish to play how they want to play.

1. The casual player is more likely to get into a group with other people wanting a more casual run. So they aren’t hounded by players to skip the mobs.

2. That new to dungeons players can find people willing to help them through. And are willing to let them watch the cut scenes. And that players who want to teach can find people willing to learn.

3. That players who wish go as fast as possible given the negatives of using a PUG group, can find others who wish to do the same thing.

4. So that fewer groups have to compromise. I’d hate to be in a group that was mixed and have a compromise of: “ok, we won’t watch the cutscenes, but you’re going to have to kill the trash possibly as we aren’t likely to be able to skip them.” Because neither side is fully happy. The casuals are missing watching the cutscenes and the zerkers are going slower than they want.

Marthkus.4615:

Jerus.4350:

All I can say is I completely disagree. You can promote tolerance without demonizing those who are intolerant.

Do you have an idea how that actually would work?

Suppose people started demonizing those who won’t demonize the intolerant. How would you tolerate that? Or would you just reject that view point.

#Golem rush really needs to end…

Tolerating someone doesn’t mean that you have to like them.

I don’t like getting up at 7 am to go to work. But I tolerate it. Because having a job is better than not having a job.

Marthkus.4615:

Explain how that is different than WoW gameplay. “Play as you want” was suppose to be: “See you can do this where you can’t in other popular MMOs”.

I’ve not played WoW. So I can’t draw upon super detailed references.

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?

Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

I have the feeling the answer to the question regarding WoW is no and the question regarding GW2 is yes.

So even at the current state of the game, the play how you want status has been kept. Even with all of the zerker/skip/stack groups out there.

Why do you have a problem with players who have an opposing play style to you making sure that they do not impose their play style on anyone else? That they try to find others with the same play style as them?

Is it because you fear that the perception of non-meta players is that they aren’t good players and you want to force the two groups to play together so that the meta players will see that not all non-meta players are bad? I highly doubt the good meta players have that perception, they likely know that there are good non-meta players. They just choose not to play with players not on meta builds because the build slows the run down too much. It isn’t because the player is bad. It’s because the build isn’t as efficient or quick or smooth as the meta build.

I just don’t understand why you have a problem with people wishing to play how they want to play with other people who want to play the same way as they do. And I’m trying to understand.

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Dinks.2478:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

I want to play with like-minded individuals. The key words being “want to play” which is equal to “play how you want”. My INDIVIDUAL way I want to play is with like-minded individuals who also have the same INDIVIDUAL way they want to play. So basically what I am saying is, play how you want means playing with certain people that you want to play with.

The way you define the term makes it meaningless and is clearly not what other people are talking about.
The way you run your character has nothing to do with how other people run their characters. “Play as you want” not “Play as we want”

That’s why zerker players put Zerk/meta, ping gear, X AP, etc. etc in their LFG’s. And why PHIW’s put anyone welcome/no skip/no stack/full clear. So that they can play how THEY want to play and not how someone else wants to play. Which is likely not how that someone else wants to play because a compromise will very very rarely completely please every party involved.

Your extending the concept too far. “no skip/no stack/full clear” is as much against “play as you want” as a “zerker/meta/move-as-stack”. Everyone can’t “play as you want” if people are trying to dictate how other players play.

My prediction with HoT is that challenging group play will be on a map, while challenging instanced content will be solo.

No, I’m not.

So the players who play zerk and wish to stack and skip are they not playing how they want to play? That someone is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to play that way?

I do not get why you have such an issue with players who do not want to play the way you want to play, labeling their LFG’s and enforcing their LFG’s so that they do not infringe on how others want to play. That they’re willing to wait to play how they want.

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Is it really such a bad thing that people come up with ways to avoid the inevitable conflict if you try to force them to play together?

No not really. It’s probably why ANET has more or less abandoned their old dungeon content. Silver Waste farming is more efficient and does not exclude non-zerk players. That really only leaves competitive speed runs left for hardcore dungeon running, which excludes pugging.

Idk why people want to speed-run with pugs merely for the joy of speed-running. I guess badge grinding could be a reason? Surely that couldn’t sustain the scene we currently see? *shrugs

The ones that want to truly speed run and expect to find players capable of speed runs are crazy for using the LFG. They aren’t going to have to the coordination down. The kind that comes from having played together for a while. The kind that comes from having a group set up that complements each other.

But those just looking for a quick, smooth, and efficient run, can easily find other like minded players in the LFG.

I don’t get why people like to watch baseball. To me, the sport is boring to watch. But it obviously is fun to other people for reasons I do not understand. And that they probably couldn’t put into words. But I don’t complain that they run baseball games on tv because I would rather watch the usually scheduled show instead.

Marthkus.4615:

Dinks.2478:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

I want to play with like-minded individuals. The key words being “want to play” which is equal to “play how you want”. My INDIVIDUAL way I want to play is with like-minded individuals who also have the same INDIVIDUAL way they want to play. So basically what I am saying is, play how you want means playing with certain people that you want to play with.

The way you define the term makes it meaningless and is clearly not what other people are talking about.
The way you run your character has nothing to do with how other people run their characters. “Play as you want” not “Play as we want”

That’s why zerker players put Zerk/meta, ping gear, X AP, etc. etc in their LFG’s. And why PHIW’s put anyone welcome/no skip/no stack/full clear. So that they can play how THEY want to play and not how someone else wants to play. Which is likely not how that someone else wants to play because a compromise will very very rarely completely please every party involved.

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

But some people’s individual styles directly clash with other people’s individual styles. So you can’t separate the social aspect of MMO’s out of play how I want. You just can’t. Because when you put the player who wants to see how fast they can do the dungeon together with the player who wants to take their time, there’s going to be conflict. Some groups may be able to meet at the middle ground. Others will not. Because even amongst the PHIW crowd or the zerker crowd, individual styles differ. Some players are more tolerant of mistakes than others.

A casual PHIW may be willing to excuse some mistakes, but may not want to take 4 hours to get through a dungeon if one players is constantly making mistakes and/or having to take breaks.

A hardcore zerker may be willing to carry one player occasionally, but not if they’re going to do things that cause problems beyond the carried player ending up dead every fight. Because the time spent trying to find the perfect zerker player may be too long for the time he has. And that of the rest of the party.

Is it really such a bad thing that people come up with ways to avoid the inevitable conflict if you try to force them to play together?

xDudisx.5914:

JustTrogdor.7892:

xDudisx.5914:

You are trying to make a logical fallacy using an hyperbole. Exaggerating to the extreme.

Sorry I don’t continue debates with people that resort to internet argument cliché. Heck you even included the link to fallacies. You forgot to use “straw man” by the way. Have a nice morning/day/night or what ever it is where you are.

So after using a fallacy you complain about me pointing out that your argument is based on a fallacy? Hahaha. Nice troll. 7.5/10

One could say that you’ve got no logical argument and have resorted to calling JustTrogdor a troll to change the attention away from the argument.

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

Marthkus.4615:

It’s amazing seeing people wonder how others could possibly have trouble tolerating their intolerance of playing with certain players they deem inferior.

Anyone who holds the maxim, “Anyone should play as they want.” does not have to accept “Players can play with only like minded players”. The first is talking about individual play styles not group dynamics. The latter is extending “play as you want” to social dynamics. Which is a ridiculous leap of logic. The whole “no holy trinity” “play as you want” ideal is that you will play with any player not that you are suppose to go around excluding players.

Does that make zerker only groups wrong? That point doesn’t. It just shows how “play as you want” advocates are not hypocritical when critiquing zerker-only groups. But since the vast majority of meta elitist in this thread would be offended by now, no one is reading this last bit and will just assume the above point is saying zerker groups are wrong and then they will try to attack that straw-man interpretation of the point.

How is it not hypocritical?

Those asking for specific requirements want to play with others who share the same goals and want to do so with the same amount of speed & efficiency.

Why is asking that people who do not fit their requirements to not join the group because they do not wish to play with them hypocritical? Why is politely asking them to leave/kicking a non-zerker/meta player so horrible?

Why is that subset of play how I want to play, not able to play how they want? Because lets face it, we all play how we want.

See attached picture for various subsets. Circles are not representative of percent of players who fall in that category.

Dinks.2478:

Seera.5916:

Algreg.3629:

Zev.3407:

anabasis.7346:

^^ Exactly. There’s many people in this thread that want to play how they want while not wanting zerkers to play how they want. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Not only they won’t accomplish anything because they are basically fighting human nature, which is futile, but they are making matters worse by revealing their true exclusive nature towards zerker players.

There is hypocricy both ways yes

but mainly this issue is when one side joins a group of the other side and tries to force that group to play their style, but verbal, or physical(kicking) ways.

both sides of the coin are guilty

just dont try to force or expect people to play the way you play, because everyone is different. Your way is not the best or right way, its just your way.

not really both ways. I rarely see zerker – or let´s be honest, good players who know how the game works – start threads complaining about “play how you want” LFMs.

They don’t come onto the forums. But they do go into the groups in game and start demanding players follow the meta.

This is one of those things I hear about all the time but have literally never witnessed once.

I figure they’re a minority (just like the PHIW’s who complain about meta players) so I wouldn’t be surprised if you hadn’t come across one.

Algreg.3629:

Zev.3407:

anabasis.7346:

^^ Exactly. There’s many people in this thread that want to play how they want while not wanting zerkers to play how they want. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Not only they won’t accomplish anything because they are basically fighting human nature, which is futile, but they are making matters worse by revealing their true exclusive nature towards zerker players.

There is hypocricy both ways yes

but mainly this issue is when one side joins a group of the other side and tries to force that group to play their style, but verbal, or physical(kicking) ways.

both sides of the coin are guilty

just dont try to force or expect people to play the way you play, because everyone is different. Your way is not the best or right way, its just your way.

not really both ways. I rarely see zerker – or let´s be honest, good players who know how the game works – start threads complaining about “play how you want” LFMs.

They don’t come onto the forums. But they do go into the groups in game and start demanding players follow the meta.

Chameleon Dude.1564:

Yay, let’s make it so maxing a warrior lets you fly around the map on another character. If you’re going to make more than one character, you should actually have to play them. :s

Having waypoints unlocked does not mean someone doesn’t want to play that character. They just want to take their character to where their friends are or where the action is without having to worry about do they have the nearest waypoint unlocked.

However, I’m not sure what the price should be since waypoints are part of map.completion which is character based and not account based.

He will need to submit a ticket to support and discuss it with them.

ANet will not discuss the issue with you and they will not take your testimonial into consideration.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Daroon.1736:

Can anyone make a reasonable argument that a $15 fee would not encourage many more of the huge number of inactive players, who purchased the game at launch to try the game again?

ANet in all likelihood looked at various price points when making their decision and chose what they think would be best for the company and thus the game. They have access to data we do not have. Why should anyone here have to prove anything? The burden of proof is on you, not us. So go ahead, provide something other than your opinion to show that ANet would generate more revenue with your plan. Be sure to include indirect costs, like the lost good will of all account holders who don’t want HoT and of those who would find denying access after selling GW2 on a B2P model to be a scummy move which would make them decide to never do business with ANet again.

My rating: 0/10: blatant attempt by someone who wants to spend as little as possible.

Or those who had bought HOT asking for a refund out of principal in support of the players who did not want to buy HOT and don’t want to have to pay to continue playing the game.

Warpinator.9860:

Zerker meta been like this since day 1

meta exist because people don’t want to spent 20min extra because some one have a non meta build

deal with it and blame casual gamers

Don’t blame the casual gamers. Don’t blame the meta/zerk players either.

Blame the lack of new dungeon content to keep dungeon players on their toes. The meta is only as fine tuned as it is for dungeons because the content is stale.

Since all players, casual and meta alike, have been forced to run the same dungeons over and over and over again, it only increases the divide between the two groups.

Because the two groups have a different tolerance for mistakes and a different response towards them. A lot of the responses in direct opposition to each other. Meta groups will tend to kick rangers. Casual groups will at least give them a shot before kicking them. On average at least.

Marthkus.4615:

Watching youtube does not make u experienced unless everything on the video is exactly how it is in the dungeon. Also i doubt its the experience since i got booted before we even entered the dungeon.

No one ever said it made you experienced. But when the person explaining the tactics talks, you’ve at least got an idea of what he is talking about.

Terrahero.9358:

Stochastic.1398:

Phy.2913:

“To continue playing the game after HOT launches – existing players would need to pay a nominal expansion fee of around $15 or there account would be suspended.”

Ya, no. That would be a kitten storm to end all kitten storms.

With the release of the expansion they are effectively doing that, but making everyone pay 50 instead of 15. I have no doubt the new specializations will be OP.

This is simply not true.

You pay 50euros for the HoT exclusive content, but the non’HoT exclusive content and the already existing content you can still play just fine.

And what group of players might not care to much about HoT? Well, WvW players for one. HoT has surprisingly little exclusive content if all you play is WVW. The new borderland is for everyone.
I would not get Revenant or Specializations, everything else in HoT i really do not care about at all. Frankly i find paying 55euros for just specializations and the Revenant (the only content i remotely care about) far to expensive. So i am probably not going to buy HoT as a result, because its not really worth it. Maybe, probably, when there is a discount later down the line.

I doubt i am a special snowflake, surely there are other players who are in the same boat as me. And this was just about WvW.

For pvp the new gamemode is also part of the basegame it seems, the exclusive part is one of the Heroes you summon. So what do pvp players lose out on? One hero, Guild Halls if you really care for that a lot, specializations and the Revenant. Again, one could really wonder if 55euros is worth it to these players and im sure many do.

HoT is mostly a big deal for PvE players or players who dabble in everything. If youre just in it for pvp or wvw, you have a kitten good reason to question if HoT is really worth the asking price if you arent going to enjoy or partake in the majority of the content.

And then in the future when ANet releases another EP, they’ll have HOT bundled in as well as the small exclusive stuff from that EP + the stuff from HOT may be worth what ANet asks for it.

Because that’s the plan for the future. Include the base game + previous EP’s when the next EP is released.

To answer OP’s various questions: I would stop playing and not buy HOT if they banned players who don’t get the EP. I didn’t see anywhere in the TOS that not buying an EP was grounds for account suspension.

I also would not pay any subscription fee. I go periods where I don’t really play GW2. I don’t want to have to pay for the month ahead when I don’t know if I’ll play at all.

And I’m not rolling in money. I can budget out and save up for a buy to play game slowly. Put aside some money each month and then I’ll be able to afford it. But a subscription fee? Some months are tighter than others and I wouldn’t be able to afford it. And food and shelter are more important than GW2 no matter how fun the game is.

Marthkus.4615:

Something a lot of us have to come to terms with is that we cannot control other players. We can’t control what they put in their lfg. We can’t control who joins our group. We can’t control who other people kick. We can’t control what other people say. We can’t control how other people play.

Does that mean LFG should be a random kitten-fest? Probably not. There can be order without control as long as mutual benefit comes about from the order. Do the zerker/meta/exp 8K+ AP groups benefit everyone else? No, all they do is inflate TP and gem price for everyone else. Do people who troll Zerker queue benefit everyone else? No, all we get there is spiteful meta-zerks trolling anyone welcomed groups and tons of other nonsense.

I don’t have a good answer to that dilemma. I can share some fun facts:
1. People can ping gear they don’t own.
2. Living story gave lots of AP while things like WvW or pure dungeon running give far less.
3. Many people have alt accounts that they dungeon on to get more dailies that will have less AP than their main one.
4. People can totally tell if you aren’t carrying your dps in a speedrun. Things can melt very fast.

Stop talking like those who play the meta and wish to speed run are bad for the game. They aren’t. They don’t inflate the TP. They aren’t that huge in numbers. If they were, don’t you think ANet would have not disbanded their dungeon team? Or reformed it? You do realize that of the aspects of this game, that dungeons receive the smallest amount of attention? That all they get are bug fixes. That would not be the case if they were large enough to affect TP prices and gem/gold ratios.

Go fuss at the players who sit in LA or wherever all day and play the Trading Post. Those are the ones who have the most control over TP prices. Not the dungeon speed run crowd. Go fuss at the players who don’t spend money on the game yet own the gem store for the high gold/gem ratios. They’re likely in Silverwastes. Not dungeons.

And don’t forget the spiteful casuals who troll the speed run groups. Stop acting like only the speed run players engage in trolling behavior.

And none of us can say which group of trolls is larger or if one is even larger than the other. So the only fair thing to say is for every one casual troll, there’s a zerk troll and for every zerk troll, there’s a casual troll. And both the zerk troll and the casual troll equally make the problem worse. They split the two groups apart even further than they naturally are.

And the recipe to switch stats requires the insignia or inscription of the stat you want to switch to.

I don’t think you’re saving anything to do what you’re doing. I think you’re actually going to spend more money.

A majority of players get kicked at or near the beginning of a dungeon run because they didn’t meet the requirements of the group.

Sometimes it’s the player who got kicked’s fault primarily. Sometimes it’s the player who did the kicking’s fault primarily. I’d imagine the former is the majority case.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

DakotaCoty.5721:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Joining a party and someone “not reading the LFG” is not an excuse for verbal abuse.

Joining a party without reading the LFG is a form of abuse.

If I’m playing with meta players, I never see any of them insulting someone, we just simply kick them and wait for them to start abusing us.

I also agree with what this guy said – if we post for meta/zerk/speed/exp and you join as a D/D ele or a necro / ranger, expect to be kicked. I see the kicked being abusive more so than the meta players.

That makes you a bad person.

If you ask for zerk, you get zerk and nothing else.
If you post meta – you get meta builds not always zerk
If you post speed you can get Pvt people who skip cutscenes
if you post exp, you get everyone.

if you post meta/zerk/speed/exp +5K AP for AC you are going to get trolled by people sick of your kitten plaguing the pug groups.

You don’t get to just ban classes regardless of LFG entry. Its why zerk pugs are seen as people of questionable character.

You also get joined by players who do not read the LFG (they don’t see it’s one or the other, because they didn’t read). You get joined by the jerks who try to force meta/zerk/whatever players to conform to their playstyle (after complaining that they try to do the same, the hypocrites).

The reverse also happens. Players who post casual, anyone welcome, etc also get joined by players who don’t read the LFG, and meta/zerk/whatever jerks who try to force the group to play their way.

The problem with LFG descriptions is not everyone means the same thing.

Player A could post “P1 Lvl 80 exp” and mean that you’ve done the dungeon enough times to know the mechanics and not continuously die or need them explained. And known any relevant strategies. And not care what build or trait set up you’ve got.

Player B could post “P1 Lvl 80 exp” and mean that you’ve done the dungeon enough times to know the mechanics and what the meta build is. And he expects you to follow it or be darn close to it. Because if you were experienced and had read/watched videos, you would know what the meta for that dungeon is.

And some people may mean zerk when they say meta.

Unfortunately, it will be next to impossible to get the description based LFG’s to start using uniform meanings for things. Only if ANet adds in things that would act as filters that would be things you would have to select from a list to add to what you’re looking for.

I’d say player A would expect the right thing : l80 EXP
I’d say the player B should ask for: l80 Zerk Meta or Speedrun

In both cases I’d expect builds which would be tuned for DPS. I have friends who run dungeons in WvW builds, they are a well balanced team as well, except: they do not care for ferocity that much, have a base of 2300-2800 Armor. They generally faceroll dungeon but are 20-50 % slower then meta zerk. They do not die. if something fails they just try it differently. they do need more hits, but running and support is normal.

In the end… well most builds are viable, some are quicker, and Zerk Meta isn’t the quickest

They definitely should be more descriptive in their LFG. But assuming they’ve been fully descriptive also leads to conflicts and possibly someone getting kicked.

I’d probably say that the Zerk Meta is probably fastest for PUGs since you can’t really expect to fully coordinate with a full PUG.

Durzlla.6295:

Quarktastic.1027:

Durzlla.6295:

One thing a lot of people don’t seem to realize is that the zerker meta wont hold up in the challenging content in Heart of Thorns, colin brohanson has even said that you’ll need a variety of roles and gear sets in order to complete it, which would mean OPs want is probably going to be quite doable.

If you want to be tanky with heals i’d suggest you go with Clerics (I’ve been told Magi’s is good for guardian with a certain trait), however make sure you don’t go pure heals, that’ll never happen. Your healing will help out your team a little bit, but you should absolutely be using boons and that more.

Also, if you’re trying to tank in PvE you need to bring a good amount of CC. CC will both kitten off the mob to make it focus you (especially if you’re in melee of said mob), and it’ll inhibit it from getting to your team, and hurting you.

Also keep in mind that you may want to run the current PvE content with friends or guildies and stay away from pugs, otherwise they’ll just kitten and moan about you not stacking or doing enough damage. What i’ll normally do is make a group with 2 other friends and just say in the LFG notification that we’re not zerker and aren’t going to play like a normal zerker group so don’t expect it.

My zerker ranger has completed every PvE content currently available with little difficulty. No matter what Anet has in store, zerkers will find a way to cheese it.

You do realize the fact you’ve completed every CURRENT PvE content in zerker means absolutely nothing right? This content isn’t going to be on the same level as the challenging content from the sounds of it. This current content seems like it was a disastrous failure from how the devs talk about it compared to heart of thorns, so i wouldn’t say you’ll be cheesing your way through it until the next content comes out.

And you do realize that the content won’t mean that zerker gear isn’t viable there. So it may not change anything for those that are already skilled in the game.

The meta may start at a more defensive gear set but it will likely become more offensive as players learn the new mechanics and pick up new masteries. Whether it will end up at full zerker, is anyone’s guess.

Just like the meta for the current content did. The meta didn’t start off as full zerker, DPS oriented builds. They started out with gear that was more defensive. That allowed them to make mistakes. Because they hadn’t run the content 500 times. Hadn’t learned the mechanics.

Marthkus.4615:

DakotaCoty.5721:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Joining a party and someone “not reading the LFG” is not an excuse for verbal abuse.

Joining a party without reading the LFG is a form of abuse.

If I’m playing with meta players, I never see any of them insulting someone, we just simply kick them and wait for them to start abusing us.

I also agree with what this guy said – if we post for meta/zerk/speed/exp and you join as a D/D ele or a necro / ranger, expect to be kicked. I see the kicked being abusive more so than the meta players.

That makes you a bad person.

If you ask for zerk, you get zerk and nothing else.
If you post meta – you get meta builds not always zerk
If you post speed you can get Pvt people who skip cutscenes
if you post exp, you get everyone.

if you post meta/zerk/speed/exp +5K AP for AC you are going to get trolled by people sick of your kitten plaguing the pug groups.

You don’t get to just ban classes regardless of LFG entry. Its why zerk pugs are seen as people of questionable character.

You also get joined by players who do not read the LFG (they don’t see it’s one or the other, because they didn’t read). You get joined by the jerks who try to force meta/zerk/whatever players to conform to their playstyle (after complaining that they try to do the same, the hypocrites).

The reverse also happens. Players who post casual, anyone welcome, etc also get joined by players who don’t read the LFG, and meta/zerk/whatever jerks who try to force the group to play their way.

The problem with LFG descriptions is not everyone means the same thing.

Player A could post “P1 Lvl 80 exp” and mean that you’ve done the dungeon enough times to know the mechanics and not continuously die or need them explained. And known any relevant strategies. And not care what build or trait set up you’ve got.

Player B could post “P1 Lvl 80 exp” and mean that you’ve done the dungeon enough times to know the mechanics and what the meta build is. And he expects you to follow it or be darn close to it. Because if you were experienced and had read/watched videos, you would know what the meta for that dungeon is.

And some people may mean zerk when they say meta.

Unfortunately, it will be next to impossible to get the description based LFG’s to start using uniform meanings for things. Only if ANet adds in things that would act as filters that would be things you would have to select from a list to add to what you’re looking for.