Guild Wars 2

ReiCH.6273:

Neox.3497:

We will probably end up seeing people even changing professions after each boss in order to kill him faster and easier.

We won’t get build locking, can we at least not have to suffer this too?

The only way to prevent this is to prevent anyone from rejoining the group of the leave it. Which is where Fractals started at. Which would prohibit anyone with spotty internet issues from doing raids. And spotty internet can happen to hardcore players, too.

Which means build locking would not be completely locked given ANet’s past history with making it so disconnects don’t punish a player or group. And most players could figure out how to kill their internet or the power if it required the connection to be suddenly lost.

There have been reports that name changes for characters can alter birthdates.

Any launch characters have a name change?

I hope I can get 1 hour of enjoyment for every $1 I decide to spend on it. I’m deciding between Deluxe and Ultimate at the moment.

And you can save up or buy gold with gems and just outright buy one of the base game legendary weapons from the trading post. We don’t know how legendary armor will be, but the new legendary weapons that are released in HoT will be account bound.

Mo Mo.1947:

Seera.5916:

Mo Mo.1947:

Raids are gonna be hardcore. If you can’t trust the people you’re raiding with you might as well not even go in. It doesn’t sound like a very PUG kind of content. Maybe plan on making friends who play in the same timezone as you and forming a regular raid night group.

Build locking or not has nothing to do with whether it’s PUGable or not. PUG’s will still attempt it. I’d rather players decide raids are not for them because the content is too hard for them. Not because they got tired of having to quit mid-raid because they were missing one crucial trait.

And really, if whether it’s challenging or not is down to whether builds or locked or not, then the content would be easily done by PUG’s.

I would not be opposed for an optional forced build lock on the instance. Where you could choose before going in if it’s a build locked run or a build unlocked run. Nor would I be opposed to the build locked run having better rewards since it would be harder.

It just shouldn’t be forced on anyone nor be described as something that will make or break whether or not the content is challenging.

It does have to do with PUGs, because who else would you play with that you couldn’t trust to keep their build relevant to the content? If your friends or guildmates can’t be trusted then why are you friends or guildies with them?

Build locking is a garbage idea. It won’t solve the rage that the OP feels. Because it’s really not about the builds of their party members, it’s about how well their party members play.

If you get into build locking everything will be pushed towards more cookie-cutter standardization with people like OP shouting at anyone who doesn’t run what OP thinks is best.

If you can’t trust the people you play with, find some people you CAN trust and rely on. For high level content I don’t think it SHOULD be puggable. I think you should need an organized group of people who know each other well and are communicating on the same level.

PUGs would still attempt it. They want the special loot. Either way for PUGs it will be difficult. LFG listings will have complicated requirements and strict kicking if not met. Especially if build locked.

And if they do build lock, it should be after someone tells an NPC that the group is ready and I’ve it be like Fractals. That way everyone gets a chance to finalize a build and no one can troll it.

Kobra X.6903:

Yes a few people are going to like it. But take a look at the numbers. The amount of people that are playing now vs the amount that used to play tell the tale guys. Im happy for you if you like it. Its nice to see someone does. Oh and dont say that fall off happens in all mmos b/c its not the same. This game numbers are scary low.

All games, regardless of genre, have more players at launch than do 3 years later. Always. Some people decide that they just don’t like the game or they’ve gotten everything they want out of it. Nothing any game company can do can keep 100% player retention.

So saying that the numbers are down is pointless.

Especially seeing how this game was advertised as one you could put down and not play for awhile and come back later to see what’s changed. Maybe some are just simply doing that. Taking a break.

bladezero.9470:

Draknar.5748:

bladezero.9470:

I’m guessing you didn’t read the thread. I’d love a crack at higher level dungeons/raids, but I don’t want to craft in order to get there.

You are absolutely correct. Crafting is a huge part of the game. This is the whole point of my thread. It shouldn’t be.

Well, right now fractals is what will net you Ascended gear without crafting. You just need Exotic. As you level in in fractal reward levels you will undoubtedly get Ascended rings. Infuse that ring with a 5AR infusion and now you have access to level 10-20 (for the most part). Next ring you get, another +5. Can’t remember if you can buy accessories with relics since I use commendations, but then focus on getting guild commendations or save up laurels or something to get the other trinkets you need. +5 those. With +25 AR you can do up to FoTM30. At that point start saving relics to get your Ascended backpiece, if you don’t already have one. At 30 you will start seeing Ascended gear drops. Just keep getting those fractals in each day and eventually you will get a set.

Will take awhile, but as you said, you are less concerned about ease and time and simply being able to get Ascended without crafting.

As others have definitely pointed out, it is far faster and easier to do it with crafting.

It’s not bad at all, and honestly the daily timer on the Ascended mats is only an issue if you already have all of the other mats you need and you’re just waiting. And honestly, in a real pinch, if you have friends or a guild, people are willing to donate their daily mat to you. I do it all the time. Just send me the mats, I’ll craft the Damask or whatever, and send it back to you. Piece of cake.

Thanks, this seems like an okay progression. I’ll give fractals a more honest try and see how quickly I can build the gear. I play mostly PvP and have found a few ascended rings as well as an ascended weapon, so I guess I have my head start.

If ascended gear is in fact not required for Raids, then HoT could be in a really good place for me. Still, I do hope looting gets more exciting/better. Nothing beats the feeling of actually finding your stuff.

Definitely a good head start, especially with the weapon.

You can even buy infusions to give more than 5 AR, though they are more expensive. If you feel the progression of obtaining the ascended gear is too slow compared to how fast you climb up the Fractal ladder.

Fox.3469:

Seera.5916:

Fox.3469:

I literly just lvled leatherworking 0-500 in 10 minutes.

He said it’s not the time it takes. He just doesn’t like crafting. And was wondering if raids required gear that is primarily earned through crafting if he didn’t want to rely on RNG. So that he was better informed on whether HoT was a good purchase for him or not.

Yeah and sometimes you gotta do something you don’t like in mmo’s, that is just the nature of this massive online experience, at least it takes minutes here, not hours, days or months

And in GW2, you don’t gotta do anything you don’t like really. There’s not much if anything that only has one means of obtaining it. There’s also nothing that locks you out of the content all together if you don’t have Ascended or Legendary or even Exotic. Or the latest skin from the gem store or from dungeons or PvP or WvW. Some players may exclude and higher level fractals do require AR, but by the time you get to that level, you’ve earned enough relics and what not to outfit in trinkets and rings. And you can buy infusions.

And is really that horrible to ask if a mechanic in a game you’re thinking to buy would require you to do something you didn’t like as part of deciding if it’s worth it to buy or not?

And if crafting had been required, he may still have viewed HoT as worth it. Or he might not have. But that’s a subjective decision and different things have different weights for people.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Having Legendary gear that can transform stats at will is a major advantage, and anyone who doesn’t think so is fooling themselves. The fact of the matter is once you have the set you are covered for gear in any possible scenario so having this will be an advantage over other players who don’t raid, simple as that.

And that advantage goes away when you realize that stat swapping usually requires a rune change…

Torolan.5816:

Dinks.2478:

I think people who join speedruns and lie about their gear should be banned for abusing the LFG. Nicest community my kitten , this sort of behavior is something expected of children. And encouraging it on the forums should be a suspension. It is encouraging toxic behavior towards others in the community. Lying and ruining other peoples runs because you can’t be bothered to join a group that isn’t speed running. You want the benefit of all the people wearing zerker and running meta builds but you don’t want to put in the effort to do those things yourself so you piggy back off of others who do and then slow them down out of spite and laziness.

Lol, that is both elitist and brash all at once. With the same justification, I could demand the banning of people that join come as you are groups in zerker and constantly berate people there why this is superior to that. After all, they provide services and benefits to you too, that you deem these inferior is not their problem but yours then.

And did he say that those players shouldn’t be punished? Don’t assume because he doesn’t if say one group should or should not be punished the same way as another group that he thinks they shouldn’t be punished.

MikaHR.1978:

Seera.5916:

MikaHR.1978:

Kaiden Valor.7163:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Guilds-Raiding

What other MMOs are doing doesn’t really matter, GW2 players (not all, but enough for it to be worth it) wanted raiding or something similar. It also helps them market to players from other MMOs who like raiding.

I don’t really see what needs justifying here…

Ooooh, ill just point you to Wildstars “players” that insisted on hardcore raiding.

Guess where Wildstar is now.

Sure, if you want to make less people play, you can just make raids.

I didnt hear more about more zones coming, more story coming, more PvP goodies coming nope.

I just heard that living story will move to raids. Which means SERIOUS money investment for miniscule part of population.

And who says the raids will be hardcore raids? It’s a little too early to really tell if raids will be something a majority do or if they will fade into the background like dungeons currently do once a majority of players have the rewards from it.

They boasted “challenging PvE content”. You think they didnt mean raids when they said that?

What do you think, that raiders from WoW will mass quit and come play GW2?

I said they may not be hardcore raids. And we don’t really know what ANet means by raids. So complaining that they are sinking money into something only a small portion will ever do is premature at this point.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Seera.5916:

But they’ll still exclude you if you don’t have the right gear. Build locking isn’t suddenly going to get rid of the meta or the players who like to play the meta and prefer to play with others who like to play the meta.

What they’ll do is kick you from the group when they discover it, as they’ll know quickly if you aren’t meta, and then restart the raid after getting someone else.

True. There’s always going to be exclusion and bullying in the highest-efficiency brackets of the game, the whole ‘go Zerk or go home’ thing. Heh, I’m well aware that there’s no real ‘take it easy’ with those guys – ‘taking it easy’ frustrates them, throws them off their game, and gets them mad at how unnecessarily long a thing is taking.

In my eyes, though? There should be room in this game for playing a build instead of a one-character grab bag of the entire class. I should have space in which to run a build I’ve worked hard to optimize and trim up to my own requirements and abilities. It may not be the same hard work that the Berzerker Flash-Run Kings have put in, but I’ve put that work in regardless. It doesn’t feel good to be denigrated and scorned for that work, and yet guys like me are. Constantly.

It sounds petty, and I suppose it is. But having at least one space in the game where that work is actually valuable would be nice. Likely not raids; unfortunmately, nobody’s going to get through those without five sets of Ascended gear and a hundred hours’ practice quick-swapping traits, and that sucks. A lot. But maybe sometime, somewhere, the rest of us can have something cool to do that the speedrunners don’t take over and subsequently ruin for everyone else?

I’m all for an optional build locking mode or one of the later raids to have build locking. But the first should be something to appeal to all players to get people interested in running raids.

And who knows, the raids currently may not need a ton of gear/build swapping around from boss to boss for non-speed runners.

But if you do build lock, you have a lesser variety of encounters you can put into a raid. Because the players can’t adjust.

Edit: And even with build locking, there will be people who eventually try to see just how fast they can clear a build locked raid. Don’t think that build locking will remove that aspect either.

MikaHR.1978:

Kaiden Valor.7163:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Guilds-Raiding

What other MMOs are doing doesn’t really matter, GW2 players (not all, but enough for it to be worth it) wanted raiding or something similar. It also helps them market to players from other MMOs who like raiding.

I don’t really see what needs justifying here…

Ooooh, ill just point you to Wildstars “players” that insisted on hardcore raiding.

Guess where Wildstar is now.

Sure, if you want to make less people play, you can just make raids.

I didnt hear more about more zones coming, more story coming, more PvP goodies coming nope.

I just heard that living story will move to raids. Which means SERIOUS money investment for miniscule part of population.

And who says the raids will be hardcore raids? It’s a little too early to really tell if raids will be something a majority do or if they will fade into the background like dungeons currently do once a majority of players have the rewards from it.

Fox.3469:

I literly just lvled leatherworking 0-500 in 10 minutes.

He said it’s not the time it takes. He just doesn’t like crafting. And was wondering if raids required gear that is primarily earned through crafting if he didn’t want to rely on RNG. So that he was better informed on whether HoT was a good purchase for him or not.

Healix.5819:

Also, you don’t need to install anything to use an authenticator. Simply make your own using your web browser.

And for those unaware of how to do this, how would one do that?

Dinks.2478:

Seera.5916:

DarkMagister.7429:

Backing this up. I have no interest in providing my cell phone to everyone interested in it and I also consider current security level sufficient.

By the way: I see a chance of loosing a phone much higher then the chance of loosing e-mail box.

But ~90% of the people who have their GW2 account hacked, have a compromised email as well.

Sounds like a personal problem for people who use the same password for everything. Maybe they should be encouraging good security practices instead of just sweeping the problem under the rug with these stupid systems that require a phone number or installing shady software on your computer.

It’s a case of the few ruining it for the many.

One bad apple spoils the barrel.

And they do encourage unique passwords. However, too many don’t and hacked accounts threaten the economy when they get rolled back. As the items sold are duplicated, as innocent players don’t get robbed of the gear and mats that resulted from the hackers selling off everything a player has.

Draknar.5748:

Seera.5916:

You are part of the problem. They notice that you don’t have the right gear. And since they’re in the middle of the dungeon when they discover you lied to them about what you were wearing they decide it’s more hassle than it’s worth to kick you and get someone new.

You are the reason players that would not mind one non-meta in their group if they don’t lie about it when they accidentally join their group decide to just stop PUG’ing. Because they are tired of being lied to by players too inconsiderate to tell the truth.

You’re honestly worse than the jerk elites that join PHIW groups and try to take over. At least they’re honest in their intent. You’re not. To me, there’s nothing worse than a liar. And you can’t honestly tell me you aren’t lying. Because you know exactly what they mean by ping your gear and food. They mean the gear that you are wearing and the food you plan on actually using.

While I disagree with lying, I believe the point he’s trying to make is that zerk meta isn’t a requirement to speedrun. So much so that he can join a speedrun group with non-meta gear, ping meta gear so they believe he’s meta, and then they complete the content quickly without anyone even noticing. I mean, if they were speedrunning and finished the dungeon in a fast enough time not to notice he wasn’t in zerk gear, then why even have the requirement?

Speedrunners are out for speed clearing. The only reason gear even comes into play is the idea that only zerk can speed clear. Which is false. If you are going for record clears, then sure I could see the zerk hard requirement. At that point you are literally min/maxing for fastest clear possible. But if your idea of a speed clear, depending on the path of course, is 7-12min per path, then you really don’t need an entire team of zerk to accomplish this. Which I think was the point he was trying to prove.

That said, it is kind of lame to lie about your gear simply out of principle. I mean if you have zerk gear and food on you, why the heck not just equip it for that run?

I fully agree that the gear one uses doesn’t determine if one can speed clear or not. It’s why the true speed clear groups who intend to PUG don’t always kick players who they see aren’t doing max DPS. Because they know that it’s not the gear that makes the speed clear.

And he doesn’t prove anything to the players that matter: the ones he lies to. Because he lied to them. They think he’s wearing zerk gear.

DarkMagister.7429:

Backing this up. I have no interest in providing my cell phone to everyone interested in it and I also consider current security level sufficient.

By the way: I see a chance of loosing a phone much higher then the chance of loosing e-mail box.

But ~90% of the people who have their GW2 account hacked, have a compromised email as well.

GuzziHero.2467:

Seera.5916:

Not everyone has a smart phone or unlimited text. And if your IP changes like some ISP’s have a tendency to do to people, the texts from the SMS can eat away at your text allowance, if you have any.

@GuzziHero: Do you have a smart phone? If so, would something like the Google Authenticator work for you? It’s not computer software, but it doesn’t require your phone number. And you don’t have to remember a key unlike WinAuth does from what I hear.

I have a ZTE ‘Kis’, if that counts as a smartphone I have no idea. One of those Android thingies.

Could I use Google Authenticator with the GW2 authentication?

If you can download apps, you should be able to download the Google Authenticator.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I don’t understand why it’s bad to have the option to swap builds.

• If you don’t want to swap your build, don’t.
• Those of us who do work at doing it fast enough so that it doesn’t slow down the group.
• Those of us who don’t care about slowing down the group already do other “selfish” stuff, so locking builds doesn’t really affect them.

I far prefer build swapping because I’m not forced into one style of play and if the group needs me to, I can offer more DPS, more support, or whatever.

I’m willing to change my mind on the topic. For that, I want to see an argument based on how this would be better for the community — so far, all I see is how some people don’t like it.

I wanted to answer this specifically because it’s a reasonable question, and one that speaks to my own opinion on this subject.

For me, the build-swapping that goes on in high-level stuff, where a player keeps five sets of armor and uses every trait in their class, quick-swapping between pretty much every fight…it destroys player/character identity. You don’t really have a build, no thing-I’m-doing that the player works hard to perfect and master. You’re essentially playing five or six different i.e. Guardians at once, switching to whatever Guardian is marginally better for whatever encounter you’re doing so you can shave those last few half-seconds off your clear time.

That’s valid, and I try to remember that speedrunners do, in fact, have fun speedrunning…but you’re effectively eliminating the vast majority of players from your chosen playstyle. If you feel like not doing this is detrimental to the group – and you clearly do, since that ‘selfish’ word came up here – then anyone who, like me, prefers to rig up one build and take it to the absolute maximum we can get out of it are essentially voted off the island. We can’t do that and still play with people who do the swap-for-every-fight thing, because to you guys we’re being selfish and bad at GW2.

As a more concrete example: my favorite Engineer is built in the original GW1 toolbox mindset – I tried to create a highly synergistic build with as many answers and options in it as I could, and when I play Lilyana I try to improve my ability to run that build as much as possible – learn new ways to use what I’ve got, get better at using what I’ve got quicker, identify what I’m best suited to taking out and what I should avoid until/unless I need to handle. I love it; it’s turned a character that sat on her duff on my start screen for nearly a year into one of my top three. Lilyana’s a superb Silverwastes cruiser and more than holds her own in guild dungeon/Fractal runs. Every time I play her I feel like I’m getting a better grip on the best Swiss army knife I’ve built in this game to date.

But if I wanted to play Lilyana outside my guild/solo work? I’d have to get rid of that build entirely. I’d need a set of pure Berserker armor, a set of pure Sinister armor, and a set of pure Celestial armor, and I’d need to abandon my flexible, all-in-one approach in order to go for a super-narrow razor focus on every one of the dozen sub-pseudobuilds I’m supposed to switch to between encounters. It would destroy the character and any reason I had to play it. If I needed to run Lilyana like that to get through content…well, I’d never get through that content.

Heh…now, it’s very true that this is all subjective opinion, and no real reason to lock builds in future instanced content. But by your own words, one of us is being selfish and unhelpful to the group by sticking to what we love to do in GW2. I find that opinion telling; it’s one of the major reasons why it’s so difficult for me to keep remembering that speedrunners do, actually, have fun doing what they do. Considering that this is the Friendliest and Most Helpful Community in MMOs, telling someone they’re a bad player for doing what is, in fact, the normal thing in every other online game out there, and what this game itself often encourages, seems backwards to me.

It’s not that people want to stop you from doing what you like in GW2, Na. Not in my mind. It’s more like…the rest of us would like to be able to do what we love doing in GW2 without being pariahs for it. The only way for that to happen is if build locking kicks in somewhere. Unfortunate but true.

But they’ll still exclude you if you don’t have the right gear. Build locking isn’t suddenly going to get rid of the meta or the players who like to play the meta and prefer to play with others who like to play the meta.

What they’ll do is kick you from the group when they discover it, as they’ll know quickly if you aren’t meta, and then restart the raid after getting someone else.

bladezero.9470:

xadine.7069:

Wow amazing another “i don’t like X content but I want the reward” thread…
You people are amazing, seriously you never stop to impress me.

GW2 is a package (as any other game) and YOU CHOOSE not to do part of it and yet you find totaly legit to ask a way to get reward relate dto the content, once again, YOU CHOOSE not to do.
You don’t want to craft, you don’t want to buy, you probably don’t want to raid/fotm/dungeon either I guess. So basically you decide to skip a huge part of the game and yet complain.

Hopefully this thread will be lock just like the other similar thread. And I’m pretty sure no one will bring any valid argument, 2 to 3 players will just respond to each other in an endless thread… just likeit happened in similar thread about gear, raid, hard content…

I’m guessing you didn’t read the thread. I’d love a crack at higher level dungeons/raids, but I don’t want to craft in order to get there.

You are absolutely correct. Crafting is a huge part of the game. This is the whole point of my thread. It shouldn’t be.

I believe they stated that the raids would be balanced around exotic gear in the PAX announcement of it.

Fractals, you’re out of luck on not crafting unless you get lucky with drops while playing Fractals. But that is the content specifically designed to be balanced around ascended gear. But you can do the lower levels with no ascended gear so you aren’t completely shut out of the content.

And to those of you saying that you’re getting the pop up more often than once per 5 log ins, maybe download a free video recording software trial and screen capture it and send in a ticket to support and when you get the automated reply back, attach a link to or upload the recording as an attachment.

Give them some poof that you just aren’t forgetting the four log ins in between. So that they can attempt to figure out why it’s bugging on your accounts but not for others.

Keep in mind, it does count per device, so those of you with multiple accounts who jump between accounts will hit the 5th log in more often than someone who sticks to one account only.

Kordash.2197:

GuzziHero.2467:

eisberg.2379:

Why don’t you want to use the SMS? Extra security is actually a good thing.

Because it is buggy as all hell.

I installed the PC version, worked fine till I restarted the computer, then locked me out of the game.

I wont install malware.

The SMS authenticator doesn’t make you install anything…

Not everyone has a smart phone or unlimited text. And if your IP changes like some ISP’s have a tendency to do to people, the texts from the SMS can eat away at your text allowance, if you have any.

@GuzziHero: Do you have a smart phone? If so, would something like the Google Authenticator work for you? It’s not computer software, but it doesn’t require your phone number. And you don’t have to remember a key unlike WinAuth does from what I hear.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

Kevan.8912:

The issue is not if there is a check or not.

It’s about:
-a vertical progression (and with masteries, sure it is a progression. Still don’t know how much “work” it requires but: no matter if easily gained as exotics, but ascendeds is a dramatic, mandatory stat for FOTM.. and a hard grind. I expect them to be sufficiently long process to keep players busy for a while.),
-grind (as seemingly you need exp, and although it can be done with non repetitive tasks, there always a more efficient way. I can gather gold, dragonite ore and silk to afford a full ascended set or a legendary weapon, also playing casually…but in a unreasonable amount of time.)
and treadmill (not a gear treadmill. but a exp treadmill? a specialisation/mastery treadmill? still here it is: because if a player logs in after a while, if he was once on a par with other players, but they kept playing…he is no more even with them – ).

These are my personal reasons not lo log in anymore to gw2.
I won’t argue if manifesto was a realistic one, if they lied or not…
but nothing changed about the things I listed above. So no reasons to come back to play with the exp.

I doubt they are gonna change it just for you. There are not enough players thinking like you for them to be forced to change either. Sorry bud…

As for Gear check in Dungeons… My personal fav is to keep a set of that zerk gear and food handy, just to post it for them, then get in there and run whatever the hell I want. 9.9 times out of 10, it makes 0 difference… Usually that .1 percent is missing dodges etc… or laggyness

You are part of the problem. They notice that you don’t have the right gear. And since they’re in the middle of the dungeon when they discover you lied to them about what you were wearing they decide it’s more hassle than it’s worth to kick you and get someone new.

You are the reason players that would not mind one non-meta in their group if they don’t lie about it when they accidentally join their group decide to just stop PUG’ing. Because they are tired of being lied to by players too inconsiderate to tell the truth.

You’re honestly worse than the jerk elites that join PHIW groups and try to take over. At least they’re honest in their intent. You’re not. To me, there’s nothing worse than a liar. And you can’t honestly tell me you aren’t lying. Because you know exactly what they mean by ping your gear and food. They mean the gear that you are wearing and the food you plan on actually using.

Ascended gear isn’t meant to be something that you get 2 seconds after you decide you want to go for it unless you’re sitting on tons of gold already to buy your way past the time gates.

Neox.3497:

Seera.5916:

If the difference between build locking or not means the content is easy or hard, then raids have failed before they even started. Content can be made difficult with the ability to change builds. Build locking shouldn’t be what makes it difficult or not. So why force everyone to build lock? When a good number of players will never have experienced that in GW2, when it will only frustrate the casuals.trying out raids? And if you want ANet to invest in raids, then you need more than the hardcore elite doing them. Which means you can’t chase the casuals away. And build locking would likely chase the casuals away. They won’t want to risk long hours inside only to realize that they need a trait that no one in the group has so they have to restart in order to be able to complete the raid.

But if they made it optional setting that increased quantity or quality of the reward, then most casuals would be fine with that. They can work out what traits are needed in the build unlocked side and switch over to the build locked side when their group feels comfortable with their builds. And the hardcore can start with the build locked side for the challenge and risk.

If they include gear swap it is FAR from being casual. Hey you want to do this? You need gear A, B and C. Go farm that!
Also build swaps is more a tryhard thing. I’m pretty sure casuals rarely swap their skills for a coming fight.

True, but if they were doing raids and realized they needed more X and a trait change could give them more X, then build locking would frustrate them and they’d likely eventually stop doing raids even if the content itself is fun. They would stop because 9 times out of 10, the group ends up missing a trait that makes it doable at their skill level and they have to restart the raid. And since they’re casual they don’t ask the stuff at the beginning as they don’t think to do so.

I’m a casual, but if I’m finding something hard, I look at my traits and skills and gear and go: is there an option that would make this content easier for me?

Build locking only punishes casual players for making bad gear/trait/skill choices. The hardcore look at it as a challenge and try to overcome it and it won’t take a hardcore group too long to redo the work if they decide to restart while learning. The casuals may not know that X is the skill/trait/gear they need to make the content doable at their skill level. So they may go from Y to Z and still not succeed. This will just frustrate the casuals who have now spent hours in the raid with nothing to show for it. And a good majority of casuals will stop doing raids if they aren’t in it for the rewards and will not continue once they’ve gotten the rewards they want.

And if people want raids to be something they add more of instead of going the way of the dungeon, then raids need to be completable by casuals. Hard to do, yes, but doable without adding in things that would only frustrate them as they are learning to do them. And a good number of casuals don’t read guides so them being out there doesn’t really help. Nor should they be required to read guides to avoid frustration from something as simple as having the wrong build. To me, that kind of frustration is unnecessary and more hurtful than helpful.

They won’t add a remind me never option. They want people to get authenticators or SMS. Because it reduces the chances of getting hacked and having your account stolen. Which only leads to support having to get involved. And given that over 90% of hacks in this game coincide with the email getting hacked, saying email authentication should be enough isn’t going to work.

Blame the hackers and blame the people with lax security. But ANet needs to do what’s best for the the game and its economy. And hackers hurt the game and its economy.

They may in the future increase the number of log ins before asking again, but they won’t make a remind me never option.

ReiCH.6273:

Ok I Did It.2854:

Why do you think Legendary Armor is coming, so that builds can be changed on the fly, to make people change from zerker god mode only, this will also be backed by the new fractal system which will force people to change builds,

The entire skill/trait system is designed so that you have to adapt to the current battle, locking skills/traits would be a bad move and completely against the current, trait/skill setup system.

Because if the reward isn’t percieved as worthy, we’d all do the challenging content once or twice for the experience, and then maybe once a month when we’re bored and that’s that. Now dangle that legendary armour in front of our faces and watch us grind that baby for the new shinies.

If the company seriously doesn’t want the dps role to be the only role there is, then maybe they shouldn’t keep designing stuff that only need dps to go down. Build locking or not doesn’t matter. They’ve already spoken about a soft trinity of support control and dps. They still haven’t told us exactly how they imagine that would work, but, build anarchy isn’t the answer. If you think build locking will force everyone into zerker, I say build anarchy will force people into that one dps meta build that the number crunchers will produce. Not to mention the constant pain of switching this for that, put that in leave that out, the nagging on mummble cause someone forgot one skill or trait or whatever. It actually goes against their own statement that we shouldn’t be staring at the UI. Switching builds constantly is exactly that.

Locking classes and traits is the absolute minimum they can do to make this challenging, to allow the oportunity for the good players to distinguish themselves from the poor, and to come up with new more flexible builds for our raiding, instead of the super specialized, we’ll end up with build anarchy.

If the difference between build locking or not means the content is easy or hard, then raids have failed before they even started. Content can be made difficult with the ability to change builds. Build locking shouldn’t be what makes it difficult or not. So why force everyone to build lock? When a good number of players will never have experienced that in GW2, when it will only frustrate the casuals.trying out raids? And if you want ANet to invest in raids, then you need more than the hardcore elite doing them. Which means you can’t chase the casuals away. And build locking would likely chase the casuals away. They won’t want to risk long hours inside only to realize that they need a trait that no one in the group has so they have to restart in order to be able to complete the raid.

But if they made it optional setting that increased quantity or quality of the reward, then most casuals would be fine with that. They can work out what traits are needed in the build unlocked side and switch over to the build locked side when their group feels comfortable with their builds. And the hardcore can start with the build locked side for the challenge and risk.

Draknar.5748:

Lyndis.2584:

My 3 year anniversary in this game is coming up, and I realize I have nothing to show for it. My AP is barely at 5k, I have yet to find a precursor (when 2 friends of mine who started the game less than a year ago have both found at least one without even going through the Mystic toilet – something I’ve dumped more than 500 gold into), have no legendary items, my guilds are dead and dying due to the game being so stale, and I have less than 10g in my wallet.

I’m not a super hardcore player, but I play this game a good amount – and it never feels like I’m getting anywhere in this game. I bought the expansion yesterday, and I feel kind of excited for it, but I also have this bad feeling it won’t really change anything.

Can’t speak on the 5k AP, that’s really low for being 3 years in. But whatever.

You haven’t found the right guild it sounds like.

I’ve been around since head start and I’m just shy of 5K AP. But I have taken breaks and one was at the time of LS1, so I missed a majority of that, not to mention I don’t feel the need to obsess over raising it. AP isn’t a measure of skill. So having low AP isn’t really a negative thing or something that should be so high for how long someone’s been playing.

Pockets.3201:

Seera.5916:

Pockets.3201:

PopeUrban.2578:

Pockets.3201:

PopeUrban.2578:

There are lots of things that are “time sensitive” rewards. That’s what makes them special and worth having. by the next expansion they’ll probably put out another thank you skin for people that have been around since HoT.

The game needs more things that eventually leave circulation and become unobtainable, not less. Those are the skins and items that become worth cherishing and add value to having “been there”

Other people not having things them special?

Things are special to me because I want them, for a variety of reasons. I couldn’t care less if one other person or one million other people have them as well. It has no bearing of my enjoyment of them.

Actually, yeah, other people not having stuff is the very definition of what makes things special. its up to you whether you care about exclusivity or rarity or not, but scarcity is what creates value and rarity at a basic conceptual level.

That is kind of sad.

It’s human nature. The scarcity or not of an item defines how special we think something is.

Think about when smart phones first came out. They were something special weren’t they? Not everyone had one. People ooo’ed and ahhh’ed them. Now, they aren’t so special. Everyone pretty much has one.

They were just phones, and over priced at that, not special in any way.

I suppose I’m just an aberration then, as I find that mindset pretty inane. If I have it, and others have it, we just have one more thing in common.

I didn’t think they were all that special myself. But it’s still human nature to attach special value to things that are rare due to any number of reasons. Being new technology or a limited time only thing.

Pockets.3201:

PopeUrban.2578:

Pockets.3201:

PopeUrban.2578:

There are lots of things that are “time sensitive” rewards. That’s what makes them special and worth having. by the next expansion they’ll probably put out another thank you skin for people that have been around since HoT.

The game needs more things that eventually leave circulation and become unobtainable, not less. Those are the skins and items that become worth cherishing and add value to having “been there”

Other people not having things them special?

Things are special to me because I want them, for a variety of reasons. I couldn’t care less if one other person or one million other people have them as well. It has no bearing of my enjoyment of them.

Actually, yeah, other people not having stuff is the very definition of what makes things special. its up to you whether you care about exclusivity or rarity or not, but scarcity is what creates value and rarity at a basic conceptual level.

That is kind of sad.

It’s human nature. The scarcity or not of an item defines how special we think something is.

Think about when smart phones first came out. They were something special weren’t they? Not everyone had one. People ooo’ed and ahhh’ed them. Now, they aren’t so special. Everyone pretty much has one.

rotten.9753:

Ohoni.6057:

If that’s true then you don’t need to be making straw man arguments. If you believe that we’re at the cliff, then argue that we’re at the cliff and cannot take one step forward. Don’t try to argue “well what if we walked fifty feet more?” Clearly I disagree, but employing straw man arguments doesn’t lead to more agreement, it just makes you appear to be irrationally terrified of relatively simple changes.

It’s definitely challenging to argue reasonably with radicals.

Ohoni isn’t a radical. Ohoni just knows what they want and hasn’t heard anything that would change their opinion.

JUN YANG.4328:

no matter what they are doing this what we got at start
http://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/maguuma/
2 armor 5 weapon
http://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/maguuma
4 map

i just don’t understand why some players will accept everything given..no matter is worth or not..with no complain with no question about it.

But we may between now and when the next expansion comes out get more armors, weapons, and maps, all tied to content that requires HoT to access.

And different people calculate whether something is worth it or not differently. You look at content.

I look at hours of enjoyment I’ll get out of it. If I can get one hour of enjoyment per $ spent, then I view that as worth it. Sometimes I calculate correctly (Guild Wars 2). Sometimes I calculate incorrectly, though I do always try to at least play the number of hours equal to the $ I spent (Sims 4 and I’m still not up the $ I spent and that was $35.).

rotten.9753:

Dante.1763:

First define casual, please? Like, im a casual player by my definition, i dont play the game everyday, and i dont play for long when i do. But heres the thing, im really good at PVE stuff which is what raids are, beat Liadri after learning it, and trying many times(Which is how raids should be, they should be hard, but they should be doable to those that learn them). I suck at PVP, or any form of competitive fighting or scenarios. So am i casual? What is a casual?

You’re posting on this forum thus you’re not a casual.

Casual and hardcore isn’t a black and white choice.

It’s a scale. Complicated by the fact that there are multiple definitions of casual. Some base it purely off a time played aspect. Others base it off of a purely what type of content you do and how well you stick to the meta. Others use a combination.

Forum users aren’t the most casual of players, but some players who are more casual than they are hardcore do use the forums.

What have you considered to be challenging solo content so far?

Give us a base line on what you consider to be challenging since that’s subjective. Some people find soloing dungeons to be easy. For me, it’s challenging. Challenging enough that I can’t do it at my skill level.

PopeUrban.2578:

You forgot access to ongoing new raid content, a new elite spec for every class, masteries for both the existing world and HoT, guild hall overhaul, a completely new set of missions in your personal story (with multiple branching paths), and access to ongoing living world content updates.

Also, those 4 maps are massive have have multiple floors, so they’re a bit larger than they seem.

There’s also no way to tell, difinitively, how many new armor/weapon skins are in the expeansion until it releases. Datamining will only ever reveal what’s in the client. Thinking they’ve added the entire HoT cache to the current client is a little naive.

Not to mention new maps, armors, legendaries, etc, could possibly be added to the game after launch.

Mo Mo.1947:

Raids are gonna be hardcore. If you can’t trust the people you’re raiding with you might as well not even go in. It doesn’t sound like a very PUG kind of content. Maybe plan on making friends who play in the same timezone as you and forming a regular raid night group.

Build locking or not has nothing to do with whether it’s PUGable or not. PUG’s will still attempt it. I’d rather players decide raids are not for them because the content is too hard for them. Not because they got tired of having to quit mid-raid because they were missing one crucial trait.

And really, if whether it’s challenging or not is down to whether builds or locked or not, then the content would be easily done by PUG’s.

I would not be opposed for an optional forced build lock on the instance. Where you could choose before going in if it’s a build locked run or a build unlocked run. Nor would I be opposed to the build locked run having better rewards since it would be harder.

It just shouldn’t be forced on anyone nor be described as something that will make or break whether or not the content is challenging.

ReiCH.6273:

Seera.5916:

I’d rather quit midway because it’s too difficult for the group I’m in with the intent to try again later with the same group or a different group than quit midway just to change builds to try again without knowing if the new build is good enough for my group to make it through to the end of the raid.

Then wait 2 weeks for the guide to come out. Don’t know what else to tell you, really.

Not all casuals read guides as some feel that removes the challenge.

But build locking shouldn’t be what makes a raid hard or not. Therefore since the only function it would have is to frustrate players, it does not need to be added. Players who wish to have the challenge of not changing their builds once they enter it are free to do so. But it does not need to be made a requirement for all groups just because you feel it cheapens the experience. In my view it does not. It only leads to frustration.

The problem is what looks just light enough to see in but still be obviously night on one person’s monitor is completely black on another’s.

However, that doesn’t mean that they can’t add in more obvious ways to tell the difference.

ReiCH.6273:

Seera.5916:

Doesn’t mean there won’t be PUG groups and I never said it would be easy for them or not.

They may get completely turned off of raids if they get halfway through several hours later only to be forced to have to restart the raid to change their build to adjust their strategy.

And is that something we should be wanting for this game?

I’m going to be honest with you here.

This is something that I, personally, didn’t ask or want for this game (I = me, myself as an individual)

However it’s here whether we like it or not. And it’s here because people asked for it.
We asked for it. We got it. And along with it legendary armor. So now that it’s here, I want it to be what it was asked and promised. Hard and challenging. So yes, that’s something we not only want for this game, that’s something we have been asking for. (We = the community, or at least a large portion of it, if colin and the people in the forums tell the truth)

Build locking shouldn’t be the difference between content being easy vs content being challenging. If build locking would make it challenging, then it’s too easy already.

It should be challenging either way. I personally want the less frustrating one of no build locking.

I’d rather quit midway because it’s too difficult for the group I’m in with the intent to try again later with the same group or a different group than quit midway just to change builds to try again without knowing if the new build is good enough for my group to make it through to the end of the raid.

ReiCH.6273:

Seera.5916:

So a group of casual players who are strangers decide to do a raid for the first time and enter it with their current builds. They don’t care about efficiency so they don’t check the guides before starting. They are not casuals due to time available to play.

They get into the raid and they’re progressing slowly. They’ve wiped some but they’re learning the tricks. They’re about 2 hours into and they realize they can beat the current boss if they had more stability. Unfortunately, the only way to do this is to change up their builds.

Oh wait, they’re build locked. They’ll have to leave the raid and come back in, in order to change their build. Group decides to just disband as they don’t want to have to repeat the past two hours worth of work for a possible two hours more in the raid. As they have no idea how long the raid is.

But without the build locking, a few of them can swap out to offer more stability and the group defeats the boss and finishes the raid in about 4 hours from start to finish.

Which scenario would you prefer? The one where a group of casuals has to restart midway through the raid just to switch builds to be able to complete the content at the group’s skill level? Or one where the group of casuals can change their build up in order to complete the content at the group’s skill level?

I know I prefer the latter. No one likes being forced to waste time. It’s like when you stupidly forget to save a game after defeating a hard boss only for the power to blip and you lose it.

I’m sorry, did you just said that a group of 10 complete strangers decide to go raiding one night? I thought we were talking about the super hard challenging content people were asking for soooo long. This post is for that content.

Honestly speaking 10 random strangers shouldn’t be able to progress at all in there. They shouldn’t expect any reasonable progress in their first attempts, when they don’t even know the mechanics, their attempt would only be for laughs and giggles.

Doesn’t mean there won’t be PUG groups and I never said it would be easy for them or not.

They may get completely turned off of raids if they get halfway through several hours later only to be forced to have to restart the raid to change their build to adjust their strategy.

And is that something we should be wanting for this game?

6-8 are only an issue if you prefer to play meta and if your character isn’t part of that meta. If you do not prefer to play meta or are currently not wanting to play meta, then you can play whatever you want in groups that do not have a requirement that you play meta.

So a group of casual players who are strangers decide to do a raid for the first time and enter it with their current builds. They don’t care about efficiency so they don’t check the guides before starting. They are not casuals due to time available to play.

They get into the raid and they’re progressing slowly. They’ve wiped some but they’re learning the tricks. They’re about 2 hours into and they realize they can beat the current boss if they had more stability. Unfortunately, the only way to do this is to change up their builds.

Oh wait, they’re build locked. They’ll have to leave the raid and come back in, in order to change their build. Group decides to just disband as they don’t want to have to repeat the past two hours worth of work for a possible two hours more in the raid. As they have no idea how long the raid is.

But without the build locking, a few of them can swap out to offer more stability and the group defeats the boss and finishes the raid in about 4 hours from start to finish.

Which scenario would you prefer? The one where a group of casuals has to restart midway through the raid just to switch builds to be able to complete the content at the group’s skill level? Or one where the group of casuals can change their build up in order to complete the content at the group’s skill level?

I know I prefer the latter. No one likes being forced to waste time. It’s like when you stupidly forget to save a game after defeating a hard boss only for the power to blip and you lose it.

Ohoni.6057:

I believe that exclusivity is a valid way to reward challenging content. But I know you don’t. Nothing you say will change my mind on it. And nothing I say will change your mind.

A fair point, but I do believe that objectively, exclusivity is worse. This is because with quantity, you can always catch up. Even if a raid rewards a thousand times more gold than some other activity, you at least have the option of doing that other thing a thousand times and eventually get there. If it’s an exclusive item though, then you could do your event a million times and still never get the thing you wanted out of it. I just can’t see that as a “to each their own” difference.

Dungeons and raids are not the same thing. Dungeons are 5 man instanced content. Raids are 10 man instanced content.

Tomayto/Tomahto.

How the exclusive item is earned is entirely different from the exclusive or not argument. They should definitely have a token system for any of the exclusive items offered in raids, to increase the similarity between it and dungeons. So that it’s not tied to RNG. But again, we’re both at the point where it’s agree to disagree and move on as the rewards of the raids is NOT the topic of the discussion here. And I will make no more comments on it as I respect the OP’s concerns enough to not derail the topic and get it locked.

And we don’t know enough about raids to say the differences between dungeons and raids is the same as the different pronunciations of tomato.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Seera.5916:

Bloodstealer.5978:

Of course.. I have even taken the time to whisper a few just in case they didn’t realise… but well its just the same outcome as with players that continually lay out verbal abuse to players cos they don’t wanna do as they say or play the way that he/she wants… same players, reported often, to no avail… nothing new.

As I said I guess its something we are going to have to get used to seeing.

And how do you know that they aren’t being punished?

Oh c’mon.. some of us have been round the block many times… when you add players to lists, and continually see them doing the same thng time and again over long periods of time.. like certain players in PvP lobby who purposely go out of their way every day to abuse others in chat in order to get their fun fix, or the “LEET” puzzle portal sellers who advertise every single day often for long periods during each day.
The only thing that seems to have reduced of late is the selling of items via the LFG… I wonder why

In the end its all well and good saying don’t do this and don’t do that… but until proper actions are taken against those players it will be looked at as nothing more than empty words.

So you check your blocked list every day? And watch the LFG all day looking to see if any on your blocked list make an inappropriate LFG?

What if they only got a 3 day suspension? If you don’t check every day, you may not realize that they were punished.

Are you wanting permanent or long term bans for every infraction, even someone’s first infraction? Let’s face it, while seeing guild adverts in the LFG is annoying, is it really worth a long suspension or a permanent ban?

mercury ranique.2170:

Seera.5916:

And the free transfers is why there is such a population imbalance in WvW.

And due to the megaservers, only WvW has the requirement to be on the same server. So I really doubt they’ll open up free transfers. Except maybe to the lowest populated WvW server.

You are correct but there are other factors too.

the first reason for the imbalance is tournamanents. The reward for each tournament has been different, but they all had one thing in common. The reward was better if you where on a winning world. So it has been “interesting” to be on a winning world.

The second reason is indeed that they added mega-servers. There was a time that you would stick to your world cause your friends where there. with megaservers it doesn’t matter anymore, so join the winning team.

Only the third reason is the free tranfer, It was before the mega servers they offered it and not after. It wasn’t good, but that had nothing to do with megaservers, but with people wanting to be on the winning team.

I agree though that free transfers are in the past.

I’m still for a forced redistribution of players once every few months. In basic how it works is that entire guilds and individuals can choose what world they want to be based on. There is a limited amount of spots on each world (on a come first base). The amount of room you take depends on your value (some fancy math to decide in all fairness how much your guild represents based on your amount of members and their cumulative WvW ranks, same for individuals.
After the face where you can register, you get to choose, you can choose between the world you picked individually or the ones your guilds picked.
Due to the fancy math, not everyone gets to be on the best world. if the fancy math is done right, there will be enough choice to be on a world where you have a good chance, but no garantee you will win.

Never said the reason for the imbalance was due to the megaserver. Just that with the megaserver the only reason we have a home world is WvW. And due to the issues free transfers cause for WvW, ANet isn’t likely to offer them again.

ReiCH.6273:

Palador.2170:

Changing your traits is easy. But when you need to change your gear as well, then you’re looking at a time sink. A big one if you want ascended gear. Gold sink, too. This will slow down raiders and make it harder without requiring bosses far stronger than anything GW2 should have. It’s a way to turn two hours of content into dozens of hours of focused play.

You make a good argument, but what you’re describing there, doesn’t sound, fun, challenging or anything really, but a chore.

If they go down that road, raids will probably fail (opinion, for the easily confused, i’m no prophet).

by not having to change everything around, they can make the fights more intresting and engaging instead of “we’re approaching the condition vuln boss. everybody switch up”

but you’re probably right, still, it’s worth the effort

But that also limits what they can put into the raid design wise. In lowers the variety within a single raid. Because players can’t change their builds.

If they can change their builds, designers have more freedom.

It also means if PUGs enter the dungeon they don’t have to completely leave the raid and restart it if they realize they should have more traits that provide stun breakers or stasis, etc.

Ohoni.6057:

They decide to add it to another area. They choose dungeons as it’s the most similar type of content.

For the record, dungeons and raids are the same thing. Dungeons/Fractals/any dungeon by another name is not an alternative to raids. An alternative to raids would be like something in the open world. They can have dungeons and fractals as alternatives IF there are many, many alternatives out there, but if it’s just “you can raid or you can run dungeons” then that would satisfied like one or two people that weren’t already satisfied by raids alone.

Where does it stop? There is a saying: give them an inch and they’ll go for the mile.

It stops when it should stop. You can’t please everyone, but you can keep trying. It stops when they decide that it causes more harm than good to make the effort, when it would either require more work than it’s worth, or when it would completely trivialize the effort. I mean, some things you can’t balance out, some people point out shovel farming in the Silverwastes, and I agree that this is bad content that should be changed a bit to be less about digging up chests and more about actually fighting the content.

If they made it, for example, so that you could only dig up chests around “held” bases, and they more closely tied how many chests you could open to how well you defend them, then it would be more about playing the events and defending the bases, and less just looping the map and ignoring the forts. As an example.

So no I don’t believe they should reward people for digging up the desert, or for “sitting in town and chatting,” but there are plenty of activities in this game that are worthy of reward, and if they are worthy of one type of reward, why not all types? They would reward in differing amounts based on the time and skill involved, but you should be able to do the activities that you enjoy and still be working diligently towards any reward in the game.

The important thing is that “challenging content” should not be balanced by having exclusive rewards, all that does is get people to play it who have no business playing it. Challenging content should be balanced based on a quantity of reward that is worth the effort, that means that those who genuinely enjoy the content can play it and not feel that they could have been making more elsewhere, but you should never feel that you are playing the challenging content because of the loot.

I believe that exclusivity is a valid way to reward challenging content. But I know you don’t. Nothing you say will change my mind on it. And nothing I say will change your mind. So let’s agree to disagree on the issue in order to keep the thread on topic (whether it should be doable by PUGs/casuals or not).

Dungeons and raids are not the same thing. Dungeons are 5 man instanced content. Raids are 10 man instanced content. And we don’t know exactly what they will entail inside of the instance. But yes, they are similar.

Rozbuska.5263:

Dante.1763:

By the one above you however, on any given day but the weekend i would be considered a casual.

It have nothing to do with your playtime. If hardcore player fail in some encounter he will brace himself and do everything he can to overcome that dificulty. If casual player fails in encounter he goes to forum asking for nerf and wait till it happen or leave game with cry.

Not all casuals run to the forum when they fail at something.

Some may try it to see just how too hard it is for them. And then move on to areas that are better suited for them happy that those who enjoy difficult content finally got some, or keep trying over and over again to try to beat it. Not all casuals demand super easy content or are unhappy when content that’s too hard for them comes out.

And what’s so bad about changing your build midway through?

Don’t like it, you don’t have to do it.