Guild Wars 2

Ohoni.6057:

Do you not believe that was a perfect example for raiding?

No.

1. You put in a horrendous example of a child being mildly allergic. No one is allergic to doing raids. Those that have physical limitations that make it hard to raid can buy runs when those start being offered or play with friends, family, and guild mates who would be more tolerant of their limitations should they want the rewards that come with raiding.

2. The food the child hates might be vegetables that are necessary for the health of their child. The parent could be putting the dessert behind them eating the vegetables so that their child will be healthy. Plus, it also teaches the child a lesson about life. That sometimes you have to do things that you don’t necessarily want to do. Like in a job.

Ohoni.6057:

50% of what? But this is my point: Other content has exclusive rewards, what’s wrong with raids having exclusive rewards? Your saying you don’t want ANY content to have exclusive rewards?!? Or are you saying you just don’t like raids and you want the rewards but are fine with other stuff for some reason having exclusive rewards? If your answer is A, then I advise you go to a different game cause I highly doubt anet is suddenly gonna say screw you exclusive rewards to all its content. If it’s B, then you just chucked logic out the window. I don’t see any c, but if you got one please do explain. But so far either way you slice the pie its not looking good for you.

I would go with A. While the raid content bothers me personally more than the other systems, ideologically I’m opposed to anyone not being able to get the rewards they want just because they can’t or don’t want to participate in one specific aspect of such a multifaceted game. So this is the topic I am most vocal about, but if someone else really cares about making PvP armors less exclusive, then I certainly wouldn’t argue against them.

The raid issue is a new issue because raids are new to this game. They were not in it before, and therefore everything related to them is a new discussion. Other content might have been in some ways similar, but that does not mean that just because previous content did something a certain way, that raids have to follow suite, or that it would justify raids following suite.

How about a pve/pvp split?

I don’t pvp that much (so it’s not for me), but it seems a reasonable compromise for high prestige items.

I could agree to that, IF raids are considered to be on the “PvP” side of that split. I have a feeling that raiders and PvPers have a lot more in common than raiders and PvEers. However the split ends up, there needs to be a split between raiders and general PvE players.

GW2 though is in definite need of CGC and rewards go hand in hand with that, as it will require some time and dedication to complete (it wouldn’t be challenging if it didn’t) the situation is unavoidable that people who cannot spend that time will not get those rewards.

It isn’t even remotely unavoidable. You avoid it by providing alternate methods for those people to acquire those rewards. Boom, avoided.

This is by design and complaining that something other people will love exists because it doesn’t fit with your life priorities isn’t fair – its your life and you decide what to do with it, sometimes this will put you in a different camp from certain other groups (be it photography night, spawning children or going fishing at the weekend).

I haven’t heard anyone seriously complaining that raiding exists, only about the negative impacts that it could bring to the game, such as locking up exclusive rewards. So long as non-raider players are not incentivized to participate in raiding, it’s a “live and let live” situation. But so long as non-raider players ARE incentivized to raid, well then it’s war, and one side has to burn.

You know (as you seem experienced in gaming) that the CGC must have special rewards linked to it. They are adding Legendary backpacks to PvP and Fractals and new weapons too (Fractals being reduced in required completion time). There will be plenty to do and get for those who don’t have time for raiding.

Like what? You just listed two things that are no less of a time/skill investment than raiding. It’s like you just said “you don’t need to be a doctor, you could also be a lawyer or a hedge-fund manager, like, whatever.”

Then they are being bloody hypocrites. You can’t be ok with exclusives for content that YOU like and then not ok with them when you don’t like the content.

Of course you can. People can care about what they care about and not care about what they don’t care about, that does not make them hypocrites. What would make them hypocrites is if they care about it in their own case, but actively fight against it in someone else’s case.

So if someone says “I care about these rewards being exclusive, but I don’t care about those rewards being exclusive,” then that is not hypocritical, their degree of investment is their own business. It is only hypocritical if they say “I care about these rewards being exclusive, but I don’t want you to have these other rewards because they are exclusive to something I like.” I am not taking that position, and so far I don’t believe that anyone has.

It is more accessible.

Let’s wait to see if they’re actually hard before we get into that part though.

I don’t buy that they can ever balance it out. If the raiders like it, then it’ll be too hard for most players. If it’s easy enough that most players can do it, then the raiders will drown the forums with their tears about how it’s too “casual.” My assumption is that if they’re going to bother with raiding at all, that they will at least try to err on the raider’s side, at least at first. After a few months, they might give up on that though.

There needs to be a reward for doing Raids. Hopefully these rewards will be sellable. Otherwise, outside of trying to sell a path, they’ll be no reason for me to repeat the content.

There should be rewards, just not exclusive ones. The amount of rewards you get should be comparable or better than other activities in the game. If you enjoy raiding, so that on a level playing field raiding is how you would prefer to spend your time, then great, it’s available for you! If you don’t prefer raiding, and would not do it unless bribed into it via exclusive rewards, then also great, you don’t have to raid! Everybody wins!

Ohoni, you don’t deserve the rewards because you don’t want to do the content. Thats as simple as it gets.

It’s also a nonsense statement. "deserving " a reward is entirely based on meeting an arbitrary goal put there at a developer’s whim. They are free to change that goal at their whim. If they choose to say that players “deserve” the armor for completing the raid then that’s what players deserve. If they say that players can also “deserve” the armro for completing some other challenge, then players deserve that too. I’m just pushing that they adopt the latter position.

There a lot of things locked behind certain content… do you see an uproar in the community of players complaining about PvP getting their own exclusive stuff? or fractals getting their own stuff?

Yes. You don’t? There’s not so much of it right at the moment, because neither gameplay type is particularly novel, but each time they’ve added exclusive rewards to those modes there has been some degree of negative response, and there continues to be under the surface. I imagine that vocal criticism of raid armor will die off too over time, after the game releases and people have fully tried it, but don’t confuse that for acceptance, it just means that people have given up on trying to change something that they still do not like, and that still makes them less happy about playing the game.

Raids shouldn’t be any different. Disagree all you want, I know this won’t stop you , but sooner or later, you need to realize that you are not going to change anet’s stance on exclusive rewards.

Why? They’ve changed their stance numerous times before. Just coming up we’re going to be getting non-RNG routes to earning Fractal weapons, non-RNG Precursors, why should I not expect to ever see them change their stance on raid armor?

This game (or any MMORPG) would be a disaster with your views of a reward system. Thats why there is no MMORPG out there that does not have exclusive rewards.

I’m playing Marvel Heroes at the moment, and it doesn’t have exclusive rewards. Much of the loot is themed, and more likely to be acquired directly from certain scenarios, but almost every item in the game can be gained through some alternate means, and those that can’t are just stats, not skins, so it really isn’t that important.

PvP is player vs player. Raids aren’t player vs player, so saying it should be on that side is illogical and irrational.

And just because raids are new doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t follow what’s been done in the past and been successful. Exclusive rewards have been successful in this game. Mawdrey, the Luminescent gear, the WvW skins, etc. I don’t recall a single thread with the direct complaint of I can’t get X skin because it’s tied to Y content. Not even with dungeons. And there are players out there that hate dungeons and PvP and I don’t see them complaining about not being able to get a dungeon skin.

It’s not war just because one side has to be incentivized to play and no one has to burn. In time, there will be groups who will sell raids for a fee. Then players who do not like to raid, can do the content they want and earn money to buy a raid run. And you wanted a token system. Gold is the perfect token system. It’s very easily earned. You can get it through just about every play style. Use the gold “tokens” to buy a spot in a raid.

And every time they release the gear to be less exclusive, there are complaints about it being less exclusive. They may just not be vocal as once it’s done, there’s no real way to go back to being more exclusive and maintain the prestige. You no longer know if someone earned it using what method.

So what’s this source that says that the method to obtain the precursors isn’t locked behind a horrible RNG system? We don’t know what it will take to complete the precursor collection. Could involve an item or items that have the RNG rate of a fractal skin.

You guys claiming the fault is ANet’s: have you sent ANet traceroutes when you notice the bad lag? Or even done one yourselves?

The step that’s causing the lag could be 2 or 3 away from ANet and still affect a large number of players and not be something that ANet can fix themselves.

portedGoblin.7413:

Azumi.9572:

portedGoblin.7413:

Don’t introduce Trinity, but some changes are needed I think.

To me it is very boring that all the game content is best done in Berserker gear.

Sometimes I spend some time looking into traits and build for a support build and maybe that would be fun to change things up a bit. Try something new. All the gear, traits etc exists to do it, except game content.
Where would I play it? If I try dungeon I will be kicked. All world PVE/Living Story can be done in Berserker gear. Shadow Behemoth… yeah that would really help!

I think the games needs to be rebalanced so that it would be very difficult to play any content solo in Berserker gear. Most mobs today only attack once every 10s or so, to make sure you can doge most of the attacks. I think we should keep these, but also to add some constant damage in between.

That way you could get a support friend and the two of you team up, one DPS with a little support, maybe a Celestial build, the other could go Berserker.

A dungeon group could be 1 support + 4 DPS. Not trinity but at least some more opportunity to play some other builds once in while.

There is no point. Again, the game is based around being solo. One member building a ‘support’ build isn’t going to have any affect on his or her teammates.

Zerker isn’t the Meta for no reason. Zerker is the Meta because the game DEMANDS it.

Everything is damage. Kill as quick as possible. For this you want damage. Zerker is simply the top dog for this.

The game becomes significantly more boring when you roll a non-Zerker team because everything takes longer.

Instead of doing 8k bad crits or 11k good crits, you’re doing 1k bad crits and 2k good crits.

All of a sudden a fight that is generally 2 minutes is now 10 minutes.

Not if they die due to unavoidable damage. That was my point. Then the dungeon would be completed faster by brining a support to keep the Zerkers alive.

And then players spend more time kicking people who don’t read the LFG because they didn’t see the need support line.

ANet doesn’t want to force groups to have to wait for players of a certain build to come along. ANet doesn’t mind if players choose to wait for players of a certain build of their own choice. Which is what happens now.

Ohoni.6057:

I have bolded the areas that support all content gives all rewards no matter what the content is.

Did you also bold the parts where I specifically said, several times, that this should not include thing like chatting in town or random mob farming? Stop engaging in semantic nitpicking and stick to the actual discussion at hand.

And they do need to balance around players who prefer exclusive rewards.

No, they do not, because what those people want is to take things away from other players. They are not entitled to that. It’s like how some MMO players prefer free-for-all open world PvP. They want the ability to gank newbs in Queensdale whenever they like. That is their ideal state. Just because they want that, does not mean that the devs have to provide that option, because it would reduce the player experience of their victims. Same here. Some players may not want me to have the things that I want, that does not mean that they are entitled to prevent me getting those things, or that ANet needs to take their feelings into consideration. Their feelings about my loot end at my avatar’s edge.

So some prestige armors shouldn’t be exclusive to one type of content (making the armors sellable is the best way, that way those who do the content get it first before those that don’t on average).

Being able to sell them is better than nothing, but it’s still a horrible solution, as it means everyone else has to farm for gold, and the gold economy is a catastrophe. It also means that the players who do enjoy that sort of content will get rich at the other player’s expense. It’s a horribly abusive failure of a “compromise” that works entirely to the raiders’ benefit. The method by which one player earns the item should have nothing to do with another player earning that item.

Some prestige armors should be exclusive, at least for a decent amount of time, longer for the first set of anything that’s designed to be awarded to challenging content, with the very very rare item always being exclusive.

Short term exclusivity is fine, so long as it is short term and not half a year or more.

Then watch your word choice. Not everyone reads long posts like yours tend to be from beginning to end or read every thread you’ve posted in about it. So you can come off as wanting something you don’t want.

And how long it’s exclusive should be determined on how long it takes to get the entire thing. If 6 months isn’t long enough for some of the more casual players to start getting the entire thing, then 6 months is too soon to make it not exclusive to raids anymore. But if it’s 2 and a half months, then 6 months would be fine. As long as another set of exclusive gear comes out or is still out if they’re releasing sets faster than people on average get everything needed for the set of gear.

And by the way, non-permanent exclusivity does cater to both the player who wants exclusive rewards and to the player who doesn’t want any exclusive rewards when done right. As long as there is always an exclusive gear set out there for content designed to have it as a reward, then they’ve got something to work for. But the player who hates that content just has to wait for the set to be released from being exclusive.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You do not. You can choose any 3 trait lines (specializations).

Good luck.

You can even go back and forth between using the specialization and not using it, so you can even try it out and see how you like it on your geared up main without having it be a permanent choice.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

You will get one map in the Maguuma Jungle when HoT is released…. and you will get the others in bite sized pieces every two weeks as the living story progresses.

Source for that. The link posted that says we’ll get 4 maps does not mention that only one would be available at launch. Not fair for you to ask for source on that and then not source your claim.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Alteraphim.4629:

While the “block them back” mentality will get the job done, blocking someone should remove the ability to communicate with them entirely instead of just halting their messages.

Sure, it should be reciprocal like that. However, since it’s a programming change, it means devoting dev time to it. How would you prioritize that over other changes to the UI? Is it more important than fixing bugs? Than introducing new content? Than delivering HoT on time? Than adding other features?

For me, it seems low priority since there’s a perfectly simple way to deal with the issue already (manually /blocking them). Your mileage might vary.

Blocking does prevent either person from sending messages. People have posted screenshots of the tests they’ve done here in this thread.

People who claim they’ve blocked you but are still sending messages are either unblocking and reblocking quickly or have just gone invisible and are pretending to have blocked you.

Ohoni, you’ve said and I quote for each:

I’m asking for ALL rewards to be made available through ALL content, so while it would diminish the few unique rewards that each of those gameplay types offers, they would also GAIN access to dozens of other types of rewards that are currently locked out fro those types of content.

Right, but the thing is, I don’t want a unique reward for that one thing I’m good at, I want to be able to earn ALL things through that method, and I want other people to be able to earn all things through the methods they enjoy too. I want people to be able to play their favorite content as much as they want, and not have to worry about getting all the unique rewards for that content and having no other rewards left. I want people to be able to dabble in any content that interests them without having to worry that they are making zero progress towards that One Cool Thing they really want to earn. I want for players to be able to “do that thing they really enjoy doing” AND “win that reward they really want to win,” without the two things likely being mutually exclusive.

I have bolded the areas that support all content gives all rewards no matter what the content is.

Content designed for players who just like to autoattack and afk at events would have to be able to reward everything. Because that’s their favorite thing. That’s what they enjoy.

So while you may not actually support that, your word choice is leaving that open. You’re appearing more extreme than you actually are if that is the case.

And they do need to balance around players who prefer exclusive rewards. But also to players like you. I don’t think it’s impossible to please a majority of players who fall into the two opposing positions. So some prestige armors shouldn’t be exclusive to one type of content (making the armors sellable is the best way, that way those who do the content get it first before those that don’t on average). Some prestige armors should be exclusive, at least for a decent amount of time, longer for the first set of anything that’s designed to be awarded to challenging content, with the very very rare item always being exclusive. Decent amount of time being dependent on how long it would take to get the full set of legendary armor precursors or whatever you get from the raids, not necessarily the full set of legendary armor. Or however long it takes on average to get the rare tonic, etc. And when one set of exclusive armor goes non-exclusive a new exclusive armor should come in. Or tonic, etc.

That way those that don’t like a particular activity can either gut through it and get it sooner or wait a long time comparatively and get it when people start selling them or they start dropping in other areas, assuming it goes to an area they like.

Ohoni, you said players should be able to earn all rewards through the content they enjoy.

Which means you’re in favor of run around SW, spamming 1 and afk’ing rewarding legendaries. Because for some, that’s the only type of content that they enjoy doing.

And for just spending hours in cities. Because there are some who just use this game as a means to roleplay. So they sit in the cities and role play.

ANet has to balance the game around all types of players:

1. The player that likes to show off unique rewards they earned for doing content. Like the account bound minis or account bound skins.

2. The player who prefers good rewards to be available to all. These are the cool skins/items that are sellable so that as players get duplicates or get ones they don’t want, they sell them to players who do. And then the reward becomes a reward for their ability to grind gold for X time. Dungeon rewards are also like this due to the ability to buy runs.

3. The player who doesn’t have a lot of time.

4. The player who has time.

5. The unskilled player who can’t improve (and the one can’t improve ones, ANet shouldn’t cater to the players who won’t improve)

6. The skilled player.

7. The improving player.

All players are some combination of the above. And some of the options above are completely opposite.

So they do things to cater to each group. There’s some content that rewards gold which can be used to buy items that are cool and earned from some content they may not enjoy. There’s some content that offers unique rewards. There’s some content that’s over quickly, and some content that takes time. And right now we’re a bit lacking on the content designed for skill players so they’re adding raids. They’re also giving a bone to the players that prefer exclusive rewards. And for everything they add, there’s someone who doesn’t like it because it goes against what they want.

Gaviston Hawkington.9647:

I think folks are overlooking a lot of aspects of my proposal:

1) Cash sink of 2G on all executed trades/ 50S on non-executed trades.
2) This system helps ignore the inflated prices in the TP due to market players
3) After 3 years if I were to craft a legendary I’d have find a way to raise significant gold just to list on TP.
4) Actually helps deter the LTB/LTS in map chat or other communication channels.
5) Secure trade
6) One step process vs. (sell, collect G, buy)

If there were not players who control the pricing on the TP I’d say that a trade option wouldn’t be necessary. However, we know there are players who can control the price of materials as well as desired items. Evidence: Celestial Dye. Supply of Celestial Dye on TP has INCREASED and yet the price increases in light of flat or no growth in demand. Economics 101 states that if Demand is constant and Supply increases that prices go DOWN, not UP.

1. So if I’m selling an item that doesn’t sell at a fast rate, I risk having to continually place the order and spending more than 2G once it actually sells. A new player can’t use this system at all due to the price. The Trading Post they can use since it’s a fee relative to the price they set and they typically aren’t getting items that sell for more than a few silver at most, which amounts to a small amount of copper. The fee is a gold sink and they’ve set it up at a % of price sold for a reason. If flat fee was good for the economy they would have done that.

2. No, it now lets players who want to control the market to do so with an increased profit as they can sell it for whatever price they want and only take a 2G fee, instead of a fee that’s much higher. If the TP fee for the item is under 2G, people won’t use your system. They’d rather pay a smaller fee. If it’s around 2G, people would still rather use the TP as it won’t cancel their order and refund them all but 50s each time. Your system would only be used if the item had a fee much higher than 2G and then it’s just a fee escaper and the fee is there for a gold sink. Your system undermines the gold sink and will mean prices will in general rise as more people have more gold on average. And when the average person has more gold, prices on average rise as people think they can get more money out of them.

3. And that’s intended. It’s a gold sink. It serves as a means to keep players from just using the TP as a bank or setting exorbitant prices on items because they have to pay more the higher they want to sell it for. The increasing fee also helps keep inflation in check by keeping the luxury items from being too expensive.

4. I haven’t seen more than a handful of LTB/LTS messages in any chat during my time playing GW2 and I’ve played pretty steadily since launch. So the TP already deters that.

5. Trading Post is secure. No reason to reinvent the wheel here.

6. What if your bag is full when your item expires? Do you lose it? It would have to be a place order, pick up system. No way for it to be automated due to the bugs it would cause if someone’s bag was full.

Your suggestion is only a problem for people who do not wish to pay the fee. Which is there as a much needed gold sink to keep inflation as low as possible. Your solution will increase the rate of inflation.

anduriell.6280:

Seera.5916:

They’ll likely never make all classes equally wanted for every aspect of the game. Too many variables. Especially with PvP and PvE sharing skills and traits. And PvP wins if it’s a question of balanced in PvP or balanced in PvE, and rightfully so. PvP is supposed to break it down into player skill determines the match, not if the team dynamic is X, Y, or Z or if it’s A, B, or C.

Not to mention some classes synergize with other classes better. With only 5 spots available, no fewer than 3 classes will be excluded from an individual party. Theorycrafters and others who calculate what the meta is, will figure out what the top optimal builds are and that’s what will be asked for in groups who wish to run the meta.

You can’t get rid of the meta. All you can do is change the meta.

Agreed.
My point here and this is with no intention of counteracting your comment, is that right now there is only one meta and that one is Ele Meta zerk. That meta build best synergize with burst zerker warrior because of the burst and the dumbs down content in the dungeons that make stacking and bursting down the boss the fastest solution.

Mesmer or Thief are needed exclusively and only for skipping content, not because they can anything else to the group.

So you have an ele that can linecasting 25 might and an Icebow that do 100K damage every 3 second and full health recovery and perma-switfness , there is no reason to not to use that choice.

The actual balance should come so there is no real difference to choose an ele from a necro, only gameplay style and mechanics so then you only look for the best synergize between your build/play style.

Right now there is only ONE. Ele zerker meta.

There will only ever be ONE. That’s the definition of meta. The optimal build. Optimal means the best.

Emtiarbi.3281:

I feel so ashamed, i convinced some of my friends to buy the expansion because the BW1 was so much fun and more challenging than the current core game. They logged out an hour after playing because it was not that fun, don’t get me wrong, the map looks amazing, but nerfing the mobs is not the way to go.

I just hope my friends don’t refund the Expansion

Remind them that it is a beta and if they provide their feedback, they may have changes down that they’ll like.

anduriell.6280:

Ayrilana.1396:

There’s nothing broken. Those players have certain things that they want. They have every right to require that because they created their own group requesting it. You have zero right to think that they cannot do that. If you want to play with ranger or necro, find a group that is not excluding them or create your own.

Most of the community might disagree with you because most of the people would like to be able to enjoy all the content in game playing the way the like instead be secluded to one niche. As i stand in my opinion Anet should apply some fixes to the actual system i pointed out here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Would-like-to-see-area-net-balance-the-game/first#post5455759

Once they fixed the broken mechanics in game i’m pretty sure all those lfg ele zerke meta 80 exp or kick will disappear completely. And dungeons will become something fun to run instead speed runs for farming gold/ascended/whatever.

They’ll likely never make all classes equally wanted for every aspect of the game. Too many variables. Especially with PvP and PvE sharing skills and traits. And PvP wins if it’s a question of balanced in PvP or balanced in PvE, and rightfully so. PvP is supposed to break it down into player skill determines the match, not if the team dynamic is X, Y, or Z or if it’s A, B, or C.

Not to mention some classes synergize with other classes better. With only 5 spots available, no fewer than 3 classes will be excluded from an individual party. Theorycrafters and others who calculate what the meta is, will figure out what the top optimal builds are and that’s what will be asked for in groups who wish to run the meta.

You can’t get rid of the meta. All you can do is change the meta.

And the patch will always go up at the wrong time for someone. So they release most patches every other week. They release critical fixes in between.

Tonight’s issues were posted 3 hours ago. And were related to the beta as was yesterday’s updates. Where any issues can affect player feedback and the ability to test what they’re wanting players to test. Tonight’s also fixed a server crash issue. Which are typically high priority as server crashes are game breaking when they happen.

anduriell.6280:

Seera.5916:

The OP is claiming the fix is to make dungeon parties not allow for people to have two of any class. Doesn’t solve any balance problems or any problems with some classes not being as accepted in meta runs as other classes.

It actually adds problems. Two friends who both want to play the same class but play vastly different builds can no longer do dungeons together and both play the character they want to play.

You did not read the rest of the comments in this thread and this is not long enough to be skipping content already. The answer was for my comment and not for the OP’s one.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Would-like-to-see-area-net-balance-the-game/first#post5455759

And i think mine brings new light to the problems at hand with the extremely toxic community that lives within he dungeons/fractals/pvp.

I agree with the OP this game needs desperately deep balancing in competitive game modes (that includes fractals/dungeons/raids alike) because right now there no any reason why you shouldn’t run anything else than an elementalist in zerk meta with some luggage like a thief/mesmer for skipping.
While this broken mechanics aren’t fixed i don’t think raids will be all that changeling or even interesting. As soon as how the boss behave is known it will become ele warrior zerker meta 80 exp, boring and toxic.

I did read the comments, I just missed due to how the forum condenses quotes, that your reply was to Ayrilana’s reply to your suggestion. I do think ANet could do more to balance the game and make all classes equal and your suggestion is actually logical. Whether they would work, I don’t know, I’m not that into theorycrafting. I do think the Necro minion AI and Ranger pet AI need a reworking to help them become more desirable in group content, not to mention making Necros able to do more to support their group.

SNIEVES.3964:

no , the reason people are just post all welcome, they don’t see a problem, because , they don’t want nerfs, they like the way the system is, broken, a balance game will have every class balanced, , no class should be op, people are always trying to get around the game mechanics and find a glitch to get over on the game, lol, if the game was more balanced you would have more people wanting to play the game , means more customer, which means more revenue for the game developers

The solution does not involve forcing players to not have more than one class in a group.

anduriell.6280:

Ayrilana.1396:

Have you tried forming your own group rather than wait for one that fits your preferences to show up?

Just put “all welcome – casual” and it should fill pretty fast.

What’s wrong in asking the developers to fix the broken mechanics and make the dungeons actually changeling ?

The OP is claiming the fix is to make dungeon parties not allow for people to have two of any class. Doesn’t solve any balance problems or any problems with some classes not being as accepted in meta runs as other classes.

It actually adds problems. Two friends who both want to play the same class but play vastly different builds can no longer do dungeons together and both play the character they want to play.

The problem is complicated by a number of factors:

1. How many players were playing a new class last beta vs this beta? If you played a new class last beta but not this beta, that could be part of why it seems easier.

2. Are they testing in a different area? Maybe this area is supposed to be an easier area than last week’s beta.

3. What one player says is hard is another’s easy.

Gaviston Hawkington.9647:

Folks are looking at the problem and not the solution. Let’s just say I have Shadow Abyss, but don’t necessarily want gold, but am open to an item for item(s) trade. Why couldn’t there be a Black Lion Barter system that works like this:

1) I offer the item for trade. It leaves my inventory and is displayed as an item up for trade to all players viewing the barter items. It would also charge me 1G for offering the item for trade.

2) Players are allowed to propose trades offering their own item(s) they would offer in trade. Those items leave their inventory. These player are also charged 1G.

3) As the person listing the initial item I’m the only one who can view all the offers.

4) I have 48 hours to make a decision or the offer goes away and all items are returned to all players. However, the house keeps 50s from my 1G as a service fee. The 1 G is returned to all the players who submitted non-accepted trades.

5) If I accept one of the offers the items are mailed to each player. The 2G goes to the house as a service fee. All non-accepted trade players have their items and 1G returned to them.

No scams, No Spams. It would work.

Isn’t that what the trading post is? Except it doesn’t auto-return your items to you after X time?

Extreme.8350:

Tera uses both AH and player trading and normal trading is used a lot.
Its faster unless you sell to highest bidder and you skip the fee.
low demand vendor stuff still goes trough AH.
The argument that you can get scammed is pathetic then you have done it yourself.

Tera’s economy is different from GW2’s economy. Their gold sinks are different in number and how much it takes each time.

What works in one game’s economy will not necessarily work in all games’ economies.

Are you on a Beta character when you go to try?

Torolan.5816:

I guess the both of us know after a content drought of 10? months that Anet is incapable of doing both raids and open world all at once. Maybe we open worlders will get thrown a bone then and when, but the general direction where GW2 goes seems pretty clear to me.

I thought we were getting at least 4 more open world maps with new features and masteries. And new enemies and new allies. So I guess ANet can handle both.

And let’s be honest, over the past three years, open world PvE has had the most content updates. If anyone has any claim to getting more attention it’s the dungeon goers and WvWers.

They might not have the ability to do a new bank snapshot without resetting the beta accounts. Which would be fine of they weren’t trying to test the mastery progression. Which is best done over the course of more than just a few days.

And testing mastery progression is better than everyone being able to find their builds for HoT.

Ohoni.6057:

What I would be okay with would be if they made a slightly modified version of the skin and made that one easier to obtain. So you can still tell who did the raid and who didn’t.

Why does that matter though? If the “little change” makes the skin less visually appealing to someone, then why should they care whether you can tell what content they’ve done? Have achievement-check for that.

And those jerks would just find something else to use if not a skin. A tonic. A title. Pulling BS claims of insane clear times. Jerks will be jerks no matter what. The ones who would use the skins to be jerks to those who can’t raid or won’t raid, would use the tonics or the titles or whatever other unique reward there is.

Ok, fine, so let’s not have unique skin rewards, and let them be jerks about stuff nobody actually cares about instead. Problem solved. I don’t care that they’re being jerks, I care that their jerkiness is being used as an excuse to not make skins available to those who want them.

So you do support run around afk and press 1 to get rewards. That’s all it would take for teq tokens coming from random mobs in Sparkfly. Yet you claimed otherwise in another thread.

I never said they would drop from random mobs, I said that they would result from certain events. Maybe the Krait lab, maybe the champ troll, maybe the Risen Juggernaut, and maybe there would be rules added to ensure more actual participation. In any case, the amount you got would be slightly less than with Teq, so over time, you would have to put forth at least as much effort as someone who’s barely conscious inside a Teq zerg.

They lose what makes them Teq skins. Then they’re Sparkfly skins.

No, they’re still Teq skins, they can just be earned from the zone he’s in. Don’t act as if this all made perfect sense before and I’m ruining it. People are killing an undead dragon every four hours or so, and he might rarely drop a box, and you can open that box and pull out any weapon you want with a unique skin attached, this is not a perfectly logical sequence of events here, for which “but you can also buy them with tokens” is a bridge too far.

Then someone who hates Sparkfly will go: they should drop in Queensdale because I hate Sparkfly.

And you can. Queensdale would drop Behemoth tokens, which could be traded for Teq tokens at a rate of maybe 50:1 or 100:1. It would be a flexible system. Or you could just set your PvE reward track to Tequatl, and advance it in Queensdale if you prefer, just as a PvPer can set his reward track to CoF, and grind dungeon tokens on Kyhlo. Up to you.

To figure that Legendary armor won’t require you to a lot of things in the game is pushing it. They might have it where you get the headpiece from Raiding and that’s all we start off with.

Ok, look, to get a Legendary weapon, you need to run a dungeon (or PvP reward track), around eight times, for a total of maybe 4-8 hours. If we assume that the raids are easy enough that success is practically guaranteed each time you attempt it, then requiring players to run 4-8 hours of raiding to get legendary armor is not out of the question.

If, on the other hand, raids are harder than dungeons, and players can expect to waste their time on numerous attempts, or if it would take more than eight successful runs to get a set of Legendary armor, then no, it is not a reasonable condition on the same scale as Legendary weapons. I’d be willing to run a raid a few times to get one, but not if I’m intended to grind it out over weeks and months of play. If I’m going to grind something out over weeks and months of play, then I’d want it to be an activity that I actually enjoy.

I could easily go: “I enjoy fractals, and so I plan to, and I expect to get cool unique loot from that, and you can’t have any of it unless you play fractals too. Don’t want to play fractals? Too bad, you can’t have that stuff. Can’t play fractals? Too bad, git gud and play fractals anyways. Fractals is Mother, Fractals is Father, Fractals is ALL!”

Yes, that would hypothetically be jerk behavior as well. Nobody should do that either.

Conversely, jerks shouldn’t be why exclusive rewards aren’t added or kept.

GW1 hall of monuments rewards should be kept exclusive. They are rewards for veterans of the game’s predecessor who spent hours playing that game to achieve various things, some of them difficult. The moment they make those rewards available to those who have never even played the game is the moment I stop playing and supporting the game. And I don’t even own GW1.

No, it would be Sparkfly armor because it’s no longer earned by doing teq. The armor has the name because that’s what you do to get it. And of the events were ever known, there would be an event train and we all know what happens when trains form. Heaven forbid some new player trigger an event out of order and disrupt the train. Another spot for jerks to be jerks. I wouldn’t say no to teq dropping tokens for teq stuff. And only teq stuff. No converting to other tokens.

You’re assuming the raids will be the dungeon equivalent. What if raids are the precursor equivalent? Then they could take ages to earn, even if they use a token system and they should. Especially of it’s built piece by piece. And it can’t be easier or cheaper than getting ascended either without angering players and rightfully so, legendary isn’t supposed to an advantage.

Exclusive things in games are not things that ruin games. If we can’t agree on that then we need to agree to disagree on this issue because neither of us is going to change the other’s mind.

Ohoni.6057:

I haven’t seen enough to say that it has started making the community bad. There were already jerks in the game that were making themselves known. They were going to continue to do so no matter what happens.

Yes, but this action is rewarding and validating those jerks. “You were right jerks, here’s a prize, carry on.” They should have instead taken a stand against them. “No, you don’t get what you want, play the game with everyone else or go play something else.”

And we’ve heard that the raid part is only a part of the requirements for the legendary armor. During the 6 months, you could be gathering those items.

It really depends on how they do it, but everything they’ve said on the matter sounds bad. If there’s some silver lining here that we’re missing then why in heaven’s name wouldn’t they be shouting about that to the rafters already? What sort of community relations malpractice could account for that?

So you have a problem with the WvW skins? The Teq skins? The PvP skins? The PvE skins (PvP players who hate PvE can’t get them after all without doing something they hate)?

Yes.

What skins do you like? Do you only like the ones you can buy on the TP? Because all non-sellable skins aren’t available in all game modes. And if it’s not available by EVERY play mode and not sellable, it’s exclusive.

I accept them all to some degree, but most could use some improvement. I believe that all the current methods of earning things can stay, but that more methods should be made available for all of them. As an example, Teq gear can only be found as a random drop off Teq kills. I believe each kill should also guarantee a few tokens, and these can add up to buy the specific weapon you want. I also believe that certain events in Sparkfly Fen should drop Teq tokens (less of them though). I also believe you should be able to trade in tokens from dungeons, or from fractals, for these Teq tokens (at a suitable exchange rate that makes these less efficient methods of earning them). I also believe there should be PvE reward tracks, one of which could be the Tequatl Track, and progressing it earns you Teq-themed rewards, but you can progress it by running content in any zone.

So basically, I think they should balance things out so that the current methods still work, and are still the most efficient methods of working towards those rewards, but that as many alternatives should be available as they can possibly create, and these should be options for people that do not wish to do the primary activity.

Will you hate the new legendary weapons if the requirements aren’t something you can do in any aspect of the game you like? As they won’t be sellable and someone may like the new skin better than the old skin.

Too many unknowns to make any reasonable judgement, but it would be highly likely given recent trends.

The tonic was to show you that if there were people who would take rare stuff that’s only available in one mode and show off to go “Na na na na na, look what I got that you don’t got” they’d have gotten it and would be showing it off. Or you’d be hearing them complain that they can’t get it. And I don’t see a lot of that.

That really isn’t the issue. The issue is with people who say “I enjoy raiding, and so I plan to, and I expect to get cool unique loot from that, and you can’t have any of it unless you raid too. Don’t want to raid? Too bad, you can’t have that stuff. Can’t raid? Too bad, git gud and raid anyways. Raiding is Mother, Raiding is Father, Raiding is ALL!”

Why should players that enjoy raiding deserve to be rewarded over those who don’t?

And those jerks would just find something else to use if not a skin. A tonic. A title. Pulling BS claims of insane clear times. Jerks will be jerks no matter what. The ones who would use the skins to be jerks to those who can’t raid or won’t raid, would use the tonics or the titles or whatever other unique reward there is.

So you do support run around afk and press 1 to get rewards. That’s all it would take for teq tokens coming from random mobs in Sparkfly. Yet you claimed otherwise in another thread. Random mobs aren’t teq. They aren’t Teq skins if you get them off killing hylek or risen. They lose what makes them Teq skins. Then they’re Sparkfly skins. Then someone who hates Sparkfly will go: they should drop in Queensdale because I hate Sparkfly. You changed the tokens to drop from just teq to any mob in Sparkfly. They should be available in all maps because not everyone wants to play in a specific map all day everyday if they want an item that relies on RNG to drop.

And don’t say no one will ask for it, because someone would (and no, I’m not saying you would ask for it or that you would support it). And given some of the complaints I’ve seen on this forum, I wouldn’t be surprised if the thread had tons of people agreeing (and disagreeing).

Legendary weapons require you to do a lot of things to make one (I do not like that the current set is tradeable and am glad the new ones aren’t). Crafting, WvW or AP hunting (some people’s internet can’t handle zergs), Dungeons or PvP (given that legendary weapons can now be used in PvP, offering up the alternative makes sense as both areas are places where 5 players have to play as a team), massive amounts of farming and/or luck (depending on how you obtain the precursor, too early to tell definitively on precursor collections).

To figure that Legendary armor won’t require you to a lot of things in the game is pushing it. They might have it where you get the headpiece from Raiding and that’s all we start off with. Then dungeons/Fractals get gloves. PvP gets boots. WvW gets leggings. Open world PvE gets shoulders. World Bosses get the chest. Where as long as you do a few options, you can get a fair amount of legendary armor. But to get the whole set, you have to do it all.

Then when the new set comes out, you shuffle it around. So if you stick around long enough as well, you can get a mismatched set of complete legendary armor.

We don’t know yet, so calling it the worst thing to happen to the game at this point is premature.

That really isn’t the issue. The issue is with people who say “I enjoy raiding, and so I plan to, and I expect to get cool unique loot from that, and you can’t have any of it unless you raid too. Don’t want to raid? Too bad, you can’t have that stuff. Can’t raid? Too bad, git gud and raid anyways. Raiding is Mother, Raiding is Father, Raiding is ALL!”

I could easily go: “I enjoy fractals, and so I plan to, and I expect to get cool unique loot from that, and you can’t have any of it unless you play fractals too. Don’t want to play fractals? Too bad, you can’t have that stuff. Can’t play fractals? Too bad, git gud and play fractals anyways. Fractals is Mother, Fractals is Father, Fractals is ALL!”

So no, I’m not buying that jerks won’t be jerks over skins but not tonics if both have equal rarity (to the player not to ANet).

Ohoni.6057:

We still don’t know how they are implementing this. They might even have a token system. If the first boss is easier and more casual player friendly, it might be possible for the more casual folks to get some goodies too.

The thing is, that might actually involve more raiding than just beating the thing. If I’m going to be raiding then I’d rather just beat the thing for full credit, but I really don’t want to be raiding at all, ever, so I’m looking for alternate methods that allow people to work towards those rewards without having to even start a raid (aside from maybe running it once like dungeon story mode).

I don’t believe that it would be wise to make all types of legendaries available for all game modes just yet. There needs to be material for the other expansions.

If they want to add content for later expansions, they can just add new versions of the armor. They already have one of each weapon as Legendaries (three GSs), but that isn’t stopping them from starting in on a second set with HoT.

Would it hugely bother you if in say 6 months to a year, they come up with an equivalently difficult and time consuming process in another type of game play

It would be better than nothing, but less than we deserve. We shouldn’t have to wait six months to start on a time consuming process. If it’s a time consuming process then we should be able to start immediately, if they make us wait six months to start then the process should be relatively quick to complete.

I think in practical terms, I’m fine with “raiders get it first,” but the first non-raiders should be earning the gear around 1-2 months after the first raiders start getting it, not 6-12 months later.

and awarded legendary armor pieces that were of a different skin?

This part is a definite “no.” It has to be the same skin or there’s no point. Now it’s possible that the alternative skin would look better to me than the original, in which case, I wouldn’t personally mind that much, but on principle each player should be able to get the version they want to have, and there’s no “fair” system for saying that one group can only get version A while the other group can only get version B and expect not to have members of each group upset about which version they were arbitrarily assigned.

And each area having its own skin is already par for the course for a lot of end game gear (exotics and/or ascended). Fractals have their own skin items. Teq has their own skin items. PvP has their own skin items. WvW has their own skin items. PvE has a ton of unique skins. The only area that does not have exclusive items are dungeons thanks to the dungeon reward tracks in PvP.

Yes, and all of those should continue to evolve as well, and hopefully will.

Do you see a lot of people rubbing the Fractal tonic in peoples’ faces? Because that is a very rare Fractal level 50 reward that has a drop rate about that of a precursor from the mystic forge apparently.

No, but that isn’t a skin, it’s a tonic. Do raiders want a unique tonic? I’d be fine with them having a unique tonic. Heck, for that matter, if they want a unique Outfit, I’d be totally fine with that too, just not armor skins.

Which to me says that the assumption that the exclusive rewards will suddenly turn this community bad is a bit unfounded. Not saying it won’t happen, but not saying it will happen either.

It’s already happening. In case you haven’t noticed, we’ve already had several examples of it in this thread alone.

I haven’t seen enough to say that it has started making the community bad. There were already jerks in the game that were making themselves known. They were going to continue to do so no matter what happens.

And we’ve heard that the raid part is only a part of the requirements for the legendary armor. During the 6 months, you could be gathering those items.

So you have a problem with the WvW skins? The Teq skins? The PvP skins? The PvE skins (PvP players who hate PvE can’t get them after all without doing something they hate)? What skins do you like? Do you only like the ones you can buy on the TP? Because all non-sellable skins aren’t available in all game modes. And if it’s not available by EVERY play mode and not sellable, it’s exclusive.

Will you hate the new legendary weapons if the requirements aren’t something you can do in any aspect of the game you like? As they won’t be sellable and someone may like the new skin better than the old skin.

The tonic was to show you that if there were people who would take rare stuff that’s only available in one mode and show off to go “Na na na na na, look what I got that you don’t got” they’d have gotten it and would be showing it off. Or you’d be hearing them complain that they can’t get it. And I don’t see a lot of that.

Ohoni and others who do not favor exclusive rewards:

Would it hugely bother you if in say 6 months to a year, they come up with an equivalently difficult and time consuming process in another type of game play and awarded legendary armor pieces that were of a different skin?

And each area having its own skin is already par for the course for a lot of end game gear (exotics and/or ascended). Fractals have their own skin items. Teq has their own skin items. PvP has their own skin items. WvW has their own skin items. PvE has a ton of unique skins. The only area that does not have exclusive items are dungeons thanks to the dungeon reward tracks in PvP.

Do you see a lot of people rubbing the Fractal tonic in peoples’ faces? Because that is a very rare Fractal level 50 reward that has a drop rate about that of a precursor from the mystic forge apparently. Which to me says that the assumption that the exclusive rewards will suddenly turn this community bad is a bit unfounded. Not saying it won’t happen, but not saying it will happen either.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Ikr. The devs have never once been mistaken on how hard things are or how long it will take people to learn new mechanics. ^^

Give an example. A specific example of a dev statement and what actually happened.

Im almost positive you cant. Im not saying Anet is perfect. But Im pretty sure the current difficulties were more or less what they intended for them to be when they made them.

You can assert that anet actually has no clue what theyre doing, but if you cant back up the assertion, stop asserting it.

The revamped Teq.

From an interview with ANet:
Q: Tequatl update is nice but it destroys your party, home server due to overcrowded home servers and overflows
A: We are aware of it and actively discussing it. We were hoping originally it would take days/weeks for players to defeat Tequatl instead of 12 hrs.
http://dulfy.net/.../26/gw2-eurogamer-expo-livestream-notes/

They were expecting weeks and it took 12 hours. If that’s not an example of them miscalcating difficulty and the speed that people learn mechanics, then nothing is.

Thats due to the amount of players making it trivial, not the actual difficulty. As you can see the question asked actually referred to the amount of players, nothing to do with the actual difficulty.

You’ve taken the reply out of context.

Something like, “We intended this dungeon to be hard, but since the failure rate (amount of times its been opened by a full party and not finished within 3 hours) is over 80%, we are adjusting the difficulty to make it easier” Is what Im looking for.

Not, “there was too many players and that made it too easy”

Nope. They revamped Teq knowing exactly how many people did it each day and how many people the map can hold. (It’s their game after all, of course they know this stuff). In spite of all their information, they tried to make a revamped Teq that was raid level in difficulty and like raids would take weeks for people to win it. It took 12 hours. So that quote and example is exactly what you were asking me to show, and I did.

If it was raid level in difficulty they wouldnt allow more than 10 people to do it at once.

In a raid players are going to have to build certain ways and have certain weapons and do certain things and even use specific armors, including apparently toughness armor.

In teq you can complete it by auto attacking it and the mobs in zerker and using the guns.

This is obviously no where near the level of raids.

Claiming that it is is just wrong.

You asked for an example where they miscalculated the difficulty and the time needed to learn the mechanics.

They thought the revamped Teq would take weeks. It took 12 hours. That’s the example you asked for and I provided it. Quit trying to reset the terms of what you asked for after the fact.

They thought the revamped Teq would take weeks

Even in the link you posted they said days or weeks. That could be as little as 2 days. the difference between 12 hours and 2 days is minor. You’re framing the answer as simply “weeks” trying to reinforce the argument that they were “So wrong” about the difficulty.

And they intended teq to be hard. Even to this day it still fails. Which is what they intended.

however even if most people on the teq map never done it before, it probably wont fail if the map is full. The “difficulty” goes away when theres that many players. They make it unavoidably one shot the entire zerg, and it could still be done because theres just so many players

Thats not them misjudging the difficulty, thats them misjudging the effects of a zerg and its certainly NOT THE SAME thing as misjudging the difficulty of a raid or dungeon.

Of someone says days to weeks, then they are expecting more than 2 days. They are expecting it to be closer to the weeks side of the equation.

However, I showed what you requested with an example and a quote. Your attempting to change the request rules after the fact doesn’t impress me. It makes you look like a sore loser.

Cya. Not responding any more to someone who changes the rules after proof is shown.

Not to mention 12 hours isn’t even one day, let alone days. So they still overestimated how difficult the content was.

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Ikr. The devs have never once been mistaken on how hard things are or how long it will take people to learn new mechanics. ^^

Give an example. A specific example of a dev statement and what actually happened.

Im almost positive you cant. Im not saying Anet is perfect. But Im pretty sure the current difficulties were more or less what they intended for them to be when they made them.

You can assert that anet actually has no clue what theyre doing, but if you cant back up the assertion, stop asserting it.

The revamped Teq.

From an interview with ANet:
Q: Tequatl update is nice but it destroys your party, home server due to overcrowded home servers and overflows
A: We are aware of it and actively discussing it. We were hoping originally it would take days/weeks for players to defeat Tequatl instead of 12 hrs.
http://dulfy.net/.../26/gw2-eurogamer-expo-livestream-notes/

They were expecting weeks and it took 12 hours. If that’s not an example of them miscalcating difficulty and the speed that people learn mechanics, then nothing is.

Thats due to the amount of players making it trivial, not the actual difficulty. As you can see the question asked actually referred to the amount of players, nothing to do with the actual difficulty.

But they still overestimated the time taken. They knew about the guesting feature when they revamped Teq. Guesting to other servers for world bosses already happened, they should have expected guesting for Teq to be high as people wanted to be with the people organizing to figure out how to kill it.

codesherwin.9346:

Started for me 2 days ago. Average ping of 100-200+ms with intermittent spikes of 2000+ms ping.

NA. East Coast. Verizon FIOS. Will update with a trace later today.

It may be helpful to get a trace when you’re at average ping and when you spike to 2000. Just for comparison’s sake.

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

You may have addressed it, but you have failed to convince. Is there something special about raids that means Legendary Armor has to be this method and no other equivalent difficulty method. What exactly is this special feature of raids?

“*equivalent difficulty* "

There is nothing with an equivalent difficulty. Whats so hard to understand?

So if there was something put in with equivalent difficulty to a raid, then you have no objections.

No I wouldnt, but they havnt announced or even hinted at anything as hard.

Then you agree with Lanfearshadowflame, that it’s ok for them to put in alternate ways to get legendary armor as long as its equivalent difficulty.

No I dont agree with her.

She may have changed her story later on, but this was the post that im arguing against.

“Let’s see….

Gear locked behind and only obtainable via raids….check
Raid lock out timers….check

Why hello WoW, nice to see you again….

Now, before someone blows up at me, let me clarify. I have no issue with raids having its own set of unique rewards, including a legendary gear set. I am; however, peeved that raiding is the only way to obtain a legendary gear set. Anet is essentially saying “Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.” This is very different than raids having a unique skin set locked to them."

No where in there did she suggest including additional content on the same difficulty level as Raids.

And later on she did, so maybe read all of the posts in a thread carefully before jumping in?

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

You may have addressed it, but you have failed to convince. Is there something special about raids that means Legendary Armor has to be this method and no other equivalent difficulty method. What exactly is this special feature of raids?

“*equivalent difficulty* "

There is nothing with an equivalent difficulty. Whats so hard to understand?

So if there was something put in with equivalent difficulty to a raid, then you have no objections.

No I wouldnt, but they havnt announced or even hinted at anything as hard.

And Envy, that’s exactly what Lanfear is SAYING. That they should put in OTHER means to get Legendary Armor that is as equally difficult and time consuming. And that they should have different skins.

I don’t think that content will come at launch or within 6 months of it (they want players to try raids after all), but I’d imagine that as new content comes out and they start adding the next LS seasons after players have had a chance to do the HoT personal story, that they may add in means to get more legendary armor.

PopeUrban.2578:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Let’s see….

Gear locked behind and only obtainable via raids….check
Raid lock out timers….check

Why hello WoW, nice to see you again….

Now, before someone blows up at me, let me clarify. I have no issue with raids having its own set of unique rewards, including a legendary gear set. I am; however, peeved that raiding is the only way to obtain a legendary gear set. Anet is essentially saying “Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.” This is very different than raids having a unique skin set locked to them.

Actually, what they said was it’s the only way to obtain the Legendary Raid armor set.

I wouldn’t be suprised to see an alternate set of non-raid legendary armor with a different skin, or a craftable “gift of legends” to upgrade an ascended to legendary status without any special skin changes.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if for the first 6 months or so the only legendary armor in the game is the raid version to entice more players to try the content out who might not otherwise try it out. Not to mention they would have to do something to make other means take about the same time on average. So either really bad RNG or time gated requirements that you can’t buy your way out of.

Hopefully, they still reward doing raids even if you’ve done them more than once per week. If the rewards are still good for them, it may not be so bad that the super special drops only happen once per week per account. But I’m not holding my breath on that given how rewards are for other aspects of the game.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Let’s see….

Gear locked behind and only obtainable via raids….check
Raid lock out timers….check

Why hello WoW, nice to see you again….

Now, before someone blows up at me, let me clarify. I have no issue with raids having its own set of unique rewards, including a legendary gear set. I am; however, peeved that raiding is the only way to obtain a legendary gear set. Anet is essentially saying “Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.” This is very different than raids having a unique skin set locked to them.

Unless you can change the runes on them without destroying the previous rune set, then it will be just like legendary weapons, treated pretty much like skins for most players.

And they may add a second set of legendary armor in the future that’s tied to different content. Who knows. We also don’t know how hard raids will really be, especially 6 months to a year later after players have had a chance to provide feedback on how easy/hard it is.

ReiCH.6273:

Coulter.2315:

What about Mesmers though which are basicly tool boxes (they are weaker at most single aspects they can build for but have access to more aspects than other classes), removing their ability to mould themselves to each encounter makes them a worse choice to take.

Mesmers change utilities and weapons many times through a dungeon to maintain relevance, build locking punishes the class.

Build locking also causes issues when progressing and only works after the whole raid has been done with guides up. Imagine getting to the 3rd boss and theory crafting but being unable to test without resetting the whole thing – infuriating.

Build locking is a bad idea, real difficulty should be from the encounter NOT from preventing players to experiment or adapt.

What about everyone else who isn’t a toolbox and don’t get invited ever cause you can do everything with 2 mezmers and 8 elementalists? That’s not really an argument.

Or maybe this time mesmers should mould themselves to be a little less specific and a bit more generic. Build locking punishes nobody. It just makes things interesting and fun.

Good, you can wait for the guides then, if you get so infuriated. I’m sure there will be other content for you to do untill the guides.

Build blocking is a great idea. You’re not build locked when you finish your raid attempt, so you’re free to experiment and adapt the next time around. Gives you time to think and make an informed decision instead of you blindly throwing abilities and traits at the boss wall and see what sticks.

And who says they would be “blindly throwing abilities and traits at the boss wall” to “see what sticks?”

I’m in NA and I’m not have any issues with the forum. Haven’t really played in the last few days so I can’t really speak to the game being laggy or not.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

If someone kicks you for having low AP, would you really have wanted to run with them in the first place?

I have very low AP since, other than when the infinitely repeatable dungeon achievement goes off, you don’t get AP for completing dungeons. I’ve finished every path of every dungeon, most of which were done multiple times. I regularly farm CoF, CoE, AC, Arah, and sometimes Honor of the waves. That’s in addition to farming high level fractals. If someone kicks me because my AP is low, that’s their loss.

I don’t think he was too upset at the kick itself, just that the person who kicked him didn’t have the AP requirement in the LFG posting. It is a jerk move to kick someone for requirements that they don’t know about until they join.

Grithan Soulforge.5726:

Excuse me for wanting the same customer experience that other people have gotten. You know… actually receiving the fully paid for product and being able to take advantage of sales instead of random delays that many others didn’t have to experience for no fault of my own.

You do realize that it’s bad for the game’s economy for there to be fraud. Gold sellers who have access to stolen credit cards buy Ultimate and then turn those 4000 gems into gold. Gold which they then sell off to people who buy items off of the TP. Sending the gold to innocent accounts. ANet can’t take the gold away from the innocent accounts who acquired the ill-gotten gold for selling an item they got through no wrong doing of their own.

So when they started seeing the marked increase of fraudulent purchases of HoT Ultimate, they put into place a safe guard to help reduce the number of ones that are successful. Even if they had paused the sale of HoT Ultimate, the moment they resumed it, the fraudulent purchases would have increased again.

That being said, if they knew the limit was in place, they should have adjusted the anniversary sales to at least be 4-5 days per item in case someone like you decided to buy HoT Ultimate because you were going to buy gems anyway and might as well get them 50% off. Or found a way to do something like layaway where you put aside the item for X price and pay it off later (give a time limit even, say 5 days, to keep everyone from laying away everything to pay off when gems they converted from gold).

I will not argue that the 1 day sales were a smart thing to continue with if they had no way to help those who purchased HoT Ultimate due to the sale and missed out due to no real fault of their own.

Sylum.1806:

People just don’t read LFG thoroughly enough. Most people don’t bother putting up the IP for Tequatl taxis. I do, to avoid people on the same map taking up space. But even after doing that, there’ll always be lazy people from the same map joining anyway.

Of course, the game could be designed better, such as displaying your current IP on the LFG and displaying the IP of the poster on LFG. But in the absence of such Quality of Life features, we can all make the environment less aggravating by doing the basic legwork.

“/ip” isn’t that hard to type.

Isn’t hard to type no, but how many players actually know that that command is actually in the game and what it tells exactly?

Grithan Soulforge.5726:

Person A pays $99.99 and gets his stuff immediately.

A few minutes later Person B pays $99.99 and is made to wait 3 full days (and yes, the “up to” is bullkitten, it’s a full 3 days now) during a time restricted gem sale. Person B notes the money is gone from his credit card account the same exact way Person A’s credit card was charged. Person B wonders “WTF”.

Person A tells Person B, “Hey don’t get angry! The fine print says you’d be screwed.”

If ArenaNet is having a major fraud problem they should pause the gem sale. And pigs will fly.

And then the fraud problem comes back as soon as they unpause the gem sale.

Grithan Soulforge.5726:

Guildmates claim to have gotten their gems instantly. That $10 gem order I did earlier went through immediately. The full $99.99 posted together on my credit card with the earlier $10 fully posted to my credit card yesterday at the same time. As in the full finalized credit card company wants you to pay them transaction, not a temporary transaction. One day after post still no gems.

And every contact with support apparently has a 12 hour delay. Nothing but four letter words right now. So much for being interact with a human being to resolve an issue. ArenaNet managed to take what they would want to be a routine event (giving them money) and making it stressful with this stupid delay combined with a time limited sale.

You just turned gems into a source of stress instead of instant gratification. Good game. Here I am waiting watching the gem sale tick away wondering if ArenaNet is trying to screw me out of the $20 worth of gems for the full Account Jump pricing for something completely out of my control.

Has anyone managed to successfully get kitten refund by reducing the tier or a full $100 HoT refund without the account being terminated as a punishment for daring to demand the product paid for actually be delivered?

And there is a clause when you buy that says the gems may take up to 72 hours to arrive. ANet is not in any trouble if they decide to wait until the payment fully clears at all points along the trip from your account to theirs as long as that does not exceed 72 hours.

Lusteregris.2697:

Its obviously not problem, since these kind of topics appear frequently and end each time with heated discussion. Thus, there is no trouble since people who claim that there is a problem doesnt have said problem because theyre obviously lying, and its not word versus word kind of argument, since one side is obviously right..eh.

No, lfg doesnt always work, for Meta acolytes and non meta. No, its not all the time, but enough to make people tired/angry. Yup, people joining lfg should read lfg description, doesnt matter, Meta/non meta.

My thoughts on the matter.

The people who say it doesn’t happen because it doesn’t happen to them are just as bad as those who claim it happens to everyone all the time.

The extremes of both side exaggerate their claims and hurt their side’s argument. And everyone always focuses on the extremes of the other side when discussing the issue and the real problem gets buried.

The fixable problem is that there is no one defined code for the LFG. ANet can’t fix rudeness.

I’m experienced in CoE. But I’m not that experienced and I end up dead more often than more experienced players. So when a group says experienced for CoE, I do qualify in the literal sense, but maybe not to the degree the poster said.

But if more people respected the LFG, things would in general improve.

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No, its not a problem because it is only a problem for the very small minority.

So was marriage inequality. =P

Seera.5916:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No one is saying that it doesn’t happen.

Just that it doesn’t happen as often as some people like to make it out to be.

It was literally called “inventing problems” in the post I quoted =P

And they weren’t saying that it never happens in that post.

They said that people make stuff up to invent problems (aka the problem of it happening to everyone everytime they make an LFG, it’s not a problem as it doesn’t happen to everyone everytime they make an LFG).

heartless.6803:

Ellieanna.5027:

MAGpie.7962:

Yeah… its not actually helping me knowing that I am getting packet loss…. I still cant play…

It will tell you where the issue is though, so you can talk to the correct people about it.

This many people all having extreme lag, it’s the servers we already know that.

The servers can’t handle the rush from F2P like every single game’s switch to F2P. They all end up with overheated servers and kittened off gamers.

It’s like a tree with many branches. There are many routes to get to ANet’s servers. The closer you get, the fewer branches and the more people are affected if one has a problem.

It could be an issue with one of the closer to ANet branches, but still not something ANet can directly fix.

While it may not scale to under 10, there may be with skill the ability to run it with fewer than 10 members. Depends on the mechanics of the raid and if there are any number of player checks.

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No one is saying that it doesn’t happen.

Just that it doesn’t happen as often as some people like to make it out to be.

papry.8096:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

If I saw a group that was advertised as a casual group without skipping or exploiting (although there isn’t much exploiting these days compared to when I started 3 years ago) I would probably not join and if I did, I would respect that.

Honest question there: Why casual is assimilated with not speed running, etc…
By that I mean take experienced players that do fractal 50 all day long & from time to time they decide to do a YOLO dungeon/fractal just for fun.
How is that casual in any form ?

Casual here meaning relaxed, not strict. Not the hardcore vs casual version. English is at it again with one word having multiple meanings.

ReiCH.6273:

Seera.5916:

The only way to prevent this is to prevent anyone from rejoining the group of the leave it. Which is where Fractals started at. Which would prohibit anyone with spotty internet issues from doing raids. And spotty internet can happen to hardcore players, too.

Which means build locking would not be completely locked given ANet’s past history with making it so disconnects don’t punish a player or group. And most players could figure out how to kill their internet or the power if it required the connection to be suddenly lost.

Or they could class lock, and allow you to rejoin the raid only with the class you’ve entered it with? You can disconnect as many times as you can, but you’ll only get in the instance if you’re with the class you had in your first encounter? That could work could it not?

Depends on if that’s even possible in the code.

Silicato.4603:

I also hope they reconsider that NON LFG ON RAIDS…

If they dont give me a nice tool to make raid parties, we will have to make our own (like at the begining with dungeons: External lfg’s webs, lfg in map chat…)
Anet can’t stop players to mingle if they want for raids, even if they are PUG.
They are just forcing us to do it ourselfs while they dont work on that feature for us…

But raids aren’t meant to be as easy as dungeons are. It’s not something they really intend for PUG’s to do. So I don’t see an issue with making those who do want to PUG it anyway, have to work harder to do so.