Guild Wars 2

Erzian.5218:

Zikory.6871:

Erzian.5218:

Renxian.6982:

I think the bigger factor that people miss is that:

Stealth deals 0 damage. It is a deception skill. It needs no counter (which it still has btw) because it cannot hurt an opposing player.

Good point, lets increase the duration of all block skills that don’t do damage to infinite because they deal 0 damage and don’t hurt opposing players and they still have counters (unblockable skills).
Oh and don’t forget to give an everlasting block skill to every class that doesn’t have one yet.

Your argument is moot, Stealth is not infinite by its self. It requires at least 2 skills plus initiative…I understand what you’re trying to say but a infinite unblockable skill is not comparable.

Oh I see, lets make it require 1-2 traits and a certain weaponset then.

Furthermore I suggest looking up at least one of the following terms: irony, exaggeration

So its be an kitten day eh? well i suggest you look up the following terms: invisibility, invincibility. protip stealth only applies one of these two things

zerospin.8604:

I’ll repeat it again, the correct way to fix this is for damage to remove stealth. You could add 1-2 sec of invulnerability when you enter stealth, but after that it’s removed by any damage except conditions that were already present. So any new skill that hits you, reveals you. It would still be pretty hard to find the thief, since you can’t target him with most skills, apart from ground AoE. Considering the insane mobility thieves have, a thief could still disengage and port to the horizon whenever he wanted.

I’ve been against the revealed on damage since the first time it was suggested in beta, because of how much of thief defense is tied to shadow arts, and that our only direct stealth from a weapon skill is melee. However, if stealth provided 2 seconds of invulnerability, I would LOVE this idea. I’d prefer access to protection and stability but i’ll take invulnerability (or some form of distortion tied to stealth)

Thedenofsin.7340:

Atherakhia.4086:

Thieves are hardly op and are so reliant on stealth that any adjustment to it without vast improvements elsewhere will result in this game only having 7 classes instead of 8.

Seriously though… Thieves are no more or less powerful than Elementalists, Mesmers, Guardians, or Rangers in overall power even with stealth and the remaining 2 classes have little difficulty beating thieves on a regular basis despite their overall handicap in WvW/PvP.

Everyone will acknowledge that Stealth is powerful. But is the Thief class as a whole? Apparently not given its ranking in sPvP and how no one wants them in the current WvW meta.

This link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kupkZLVQ5XY >>> your argument.

Overpowered and needs a nerf.

I fail to see how a video of some of the worst players I’ve ever seen proves anything. “The thief went invisible, I’ll just stand here not moving maybe he won’t see me” protip, thief vision is not based on movement, we can still see you when you stand still. That video is the definition of l2p.

Iavra.8510:

If it also gets portal’s cd (90s) ^^

Portal moves 20 people, shadowtrap moves 1. Why would it have the same cd?

Einlanzer.1627:

Yes, Smoke Bomb is so bad that it actually feels like a bugged skill and has on multiple occasions caused me to laugh at my monitor as it literally does nothing and I think to myself “what the hell is wrong with Anet?”. The only use it has at all is giving you access to the stealth version of the #1 skill which causes bleeds, giving you a slightly better chance at a rally.

Not going to sugarcoat it- whoever decided that Stealth shouldn’t drop aggro and that Stealth should only ever last 3 seconds in PvE is a moron. Stealth is non-functioning as a defensive skill and totally overpowered as an offensive one when it should be balanced for both.

Softspoken.2410:

Make it a 1/2 second cast and a 3 second stealth and we’re talking.

Edit: It used to be better in PvE, when going into stealth made your attacker sprint back to their starting position, and could make enough distance for you to reset aggro and channel a significant revive / bandage.

It actually never worked that well even before the PvE stealth nerf. It always needed to last longer than 3 seconds to be effective at all. Stealth should last twice as long in PvE as it does in PvP and WvW.

It used to be a random teleport and stealth in one skill

TundraQualle.8204:

There is a difference in functionality between Mesmer’s blink and Thief’s shadow step?

They “fixed” shadowstep pathing around a month ago, before the balance patch, since then your lucky if shadowsteps work 50% of the time (in wvw, i cant speak for all the spvp maps, havnt played those much lately)

YuiRS.8129:

You can only port to a point if there’s a direct route to it nearby that doesn’t require jumping. It’s as easy as that.

That is just plainly false. My shadowsteps fail on flat ground porting half the distance they should all the time

zerospin.8604:

Envy.1679:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth_Disruptor_Trap

fixed

You have to be kidding me. Really? 15 badges + 525karma + 10sup just to be on the same level with one class? Hey, I want some uber abilities for my engi then, that will require people to spend 25 badges just to have a shot at killing me. Like, 2k/sec regen maybe?

On the same level? Really? So when you hit a thief with stealth trap, does he gain your ridiculous access to conditions? Does he gain your access to protection and stability? Does he gain your higher health pool or 1500 range attacks? On the same level, Yeah right, do you even play this game?

Master of Timespace.2548:

Renxian.6982:

Hurtappl.6405:

Scorci.3250:

i have some bad news, you might be bad at the game

I have some bad news for all you ppl that play thieves and think they arent OP.. lol you, YES YOU are prob bad..

just sayin

Yes, we are all bad because you cannot counter the single most predictable class in the game.

I think you are projecting.

One of the worst mistakes a thief can do is to play in a predictable way. Good thief knows how to abuse stealth so that he is very unpredictable.

How is a thief abusing stealth not predictable? Its by far the most common thief tactic

I remember when they said they removed it, I didnt test it at the time, but i know it was ‘working’ again about the same time mesmers could destroy walls with GS #1 attack.

sigil of strength wont work well with sigil of air, all the crit based sigils share a cooldown. so if air procs, then strength cant till the cooldowns comes up, and vice versa

DeadlySynz.3471:

Been brought up before, nearly everybody and their mom agrees thieves should lose their stealth during stomps. Not only that but lose stealth for “x” period of time after attacking.

Man, thats a great idea, thieves should lose stealth any time they damage a target, and maybe give them a debuff to make them immune to stealth then too, so they cant spam stealth. You are brilliant, maybe they could call the debuff revealed eh? That seems to fit, and since we know bads will still lose to some thieves and cry, maybe anet could give them another handicap, and create some sort of anti stealth trap to make them unable to stealth for 30s or so, just to make it easier for the carebears.

in addition to the poster above me If you play na server, I’d be happy to help you get thru it. If this guy can do it solo,I’m sure we all can manage in a full group.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

I don’t play warrior, but I can imagine how annoying it is.

Unfortunately I think that thief is the golden child of this game. Every manner of awesomeness is given to them. They move fast, kill, apply conditions quickly, their attack chains are also their defense so there is no need to balance what utilities you use and lastly..they get to stealth. All this for, “You have a lower HP pool…not the lowest mind you, we wouldn’t do that to our golden child.” And let’s face it..no one spams blind like thief does.

Actually Ele Guard and thief share the lowest hp pool. When posting such vitriol you will look less of a fool If your information is accurate.

There is no way to balance difficulty for all players. That’s impossible. Up to this point dungeons have all been very easy, only variation being length. It’s about time there was something fun and challenging in over. (Molten facility was fun and epic but not hard) I’m sorry you found this difficult, but many players have been waiting almost a year for a bit of a challenge.

As a sidenote I’m a casual and with a couple wipes my guild finished first try, less than 1.5 hours. It’s not that hard.

eye floater.7140:

Erasculio.2914:

LFk.1408:

I can start out with some background:
- Thanks to the trading post function, you can sell from anywhere. You don’t have to be at a trading post merchant to post up your items.
- Person to person trading is non-existent, so there is no need of a major hub in the game. The trading post is nameless and faceless.
- The deposit all function performs the majority of the role of a bank, in an instant.
- There are portals and paths in the game that lead here and there, but waypoints lead anywhere and everywhere in the game in an instant. The only advantage of a portal is that it is free.

One more list of complains that can be summed up with, “I wish Guild Wars 2 was more like all the other MMOs out there, with the same inconveniences and time sinks in place to deceive people into thinking they are fun, while they are just tricks to keep people p(l)aying longer”.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Maybe you’re forgetting that people derive joy out of many different things. I agree with most of what the OP says; so many things in the game are just… useless, and don’t add anything. Compare Skyrim NPC’s to GW2’s. Yeah, completely different game, but still, the people in Skyrim are soooo much more useful and add a lot more to the game.

If by that you mean you can kill them and take their stuff, then yeah. Otherwise they dont have much more value, just more annoyance

EvilSardine.9635:

So, the other day a thief hit my “balanced” warrior build (1500 toughness, ) for 17,000 damage with a backstab. Basically, I was two shotted. Screenshot provided. The black powder right after was the thief getting ready to cloak again to hit again for that same damage I imagine.

Playing a thief is easy mode. If you don’t have one then make one and get decent with it and watch how funny it is to walk into an outnumbered skirmish and win. Things not going your way? Just stealth and reset the fight and just keep relentlessly chipping away. Anyone here that says “if the thief is stealth the whole time he’s not doing damage” has no clue what he’s talking about. I will beat you just from annoying the hell out of you relentlessly until you mess up. I can’t make a mistake because of all my get aways and “oh crap buttons.”

It got old so I’m mostly using my warrior which is fun since I have the feeling of danger and there’s a risk when I jump into a fight.

Shemsu.8721:

Also. If a thief is permanently stealthed how do you know he is even there? Did the bushes rustle funny, Did you hear a snickering with nobody in sight?

Blinding powders being set off around you.

Thats a heavy amount of damage for a supposed balanced build, assuming your are correct with your build, how much might did he have (a warrior can hit for double that with HB and equal that with killshot) how much vuln did you have? do you use frenzy perchance? what food buffs did he have did you have?

You post an edited screenshot clip, with literally no other information and expect something from it? I can link you videos on youtube of warriors doing 32k to 5 people at 1500 range with killshot, should they come whine about how op warrior is?

Deniara Devious.3948:

Sarrow.2785:

Deniara Devious.3948:

Unlike most people on these forums I can see the logic behind the cluster bomb range nerf,

Would you mind elaborating on that?

I already commented this in another thread.

Ranger’s short bow is also now 900 range. Same weapon, same range. Sounds logical. I know rangers have long bow as well, but thief has better mobility. And I would still argue that thief’s shortbow is better than ranger’s longbow in most circumstances (I got both level 80 ranger and thief).

Okay so the argument for the cluster bomb range nerf is that rangers shortbow got set to 900 as well, and all weapons of the same type have to have the same range? Lets examine that argument for a moment shall we… We will use another weapon thief and ranger have in common, along with other classes that use the same.

Dagger

Thief Ranger Elementalist
skill 1 130 na 400-600-300-300
skill 2 450 na 400-400-300-240
skill 3 130 na 600-240-n/a-900
skill 4 900 250 240-n/a-1200-240
skill 5 130 1200 300-240-180-360

There is alot of discrepancy there, a ranger can throw a dagger farther than a thief can? not to mention farther than either can shoot a shortbow? WOW! I guess the same weapon doesnt have to have the same range on all skills and all classes. If you want another example, look at axe, or rifle for engi/war

crouze.3078:

bobross.5034:

Vitality boosts survivability vs conditions.

In my oppinion this is so wrong.
Vitality only helps against burst damage. (on 10k HP professions more then on 18k HP professions)

I think its the worst defensive attribut.

Damaging conditions ignore armor. So against a conditions build toughness is worthless, however because dots do low damage in general extra but is extra defense

Hanibull.5124:

From the OP:
“Yes, I know that they have to sacrifice a substantial amount of survivability to have such high burst damage, and that would be perfectly fine, if I could attack them. "

This times 1000.

I also ignore thieves, not because I’m afraid of getting killed, but because I know they’re going to stealth and disappear when they get low. There’s no point in wasting 5 min dorking around with a thief when really all we’re doing is waiting for a random zerg to appear and finish things one way or the other.

Perma stealth has gotta go.

perma stealth = perma not attacking. Zero threat level. Also. If a thief is permanently stealthed how do you know he is even there? Did the bushes rustle funny, Did you hear a snickering with nobody in sight?

The Wolf Sage.2815:

Is anyone else in this game frustrated with how they keep giving thieves and mesmers (which were more than powerful enough to begin with) new abilities to make them more powerful?

My main is a lvl 80 ranger with all exotics and a crit build and I don’t stand a chance against thiefs, mesmers or necros with their new torment condition.

My point is, if you are going to buff those classes, than please buff all the rest as well so that the game is still fair in WvW.

Not sure If your serious or joking. Swapping torment for weakness on skale venom was a nerf. Torment does terrible low damage, while the new weakness is very strong. Not to mention it’s on one utility with a 45 second cd. I will however join your petition, plz anet take away crappy torment and give back perma weakness.

Hanibull.5124:

As an Ele, I completely support nerfing downed Mist Form so it cannot pass through doors… as long as the perma-stealth Thief build is also removed from game.
Otherwise, suck it up.

Haha. Why would you want that? That would mean even more full zerk insta give thieves (now with 1500 range) a thief permanently in stealth is a thief permanently not attacking = 0 threat

Nikkinella.8254:

If ele can’t vapor form through doors than thief shouldn’t be able to go into doors while stealthed. Oh and just so you know, you can get inside a door when you’re downed as a thief if you’re close enough. go try it. Shadow Escape will teleport you inside the door if you’re close enough.

Just tested. You are wrong, thief cannot port through door while downed

sorrow.2364:

Daeqar.8965:

You are making a strawman. Thief players are identifying the CB range change as being poorly justified and having a negative impact on the game with well reasoned arguments. No one is asking for huge buffs to the class; you are arguing against yourself.

Really? It looks like that people here think that Thief is weak and needs serious buffs to be put on par with other professions.

As I said, the only logical reason behind shortbow nerf is for design.
ANet probably doesn’t want thieves to blast people down the wall in WvWvW. Neither they want shortbow to be a long-range weapon.

sorrow.2364:

Most of the buffs they made had a real impact on Thief.
Before the patch, you were forced to run S/D + Shortbow just because they were the best sets. Running S/P, D/D or D/P was not a good choice just because you were able to run S/D and be more effective, despite the fact that other sets aren’t overall uneffective.

Again, this is a clear example of you either not reading or not comprehending what all these other people were taking a lot of time to explain. Just declaring a real impact doesn’t make it true.

Also, D/P was generally regarded as the best weapon set even before the patch. S/D was quite good as well, but even then wasn’t getting more than probably ~25% use by thief players.

Nerfing CB range doesn’t make poor weapon sets suddenly better and competitive against other classes. It’s just going to drive players even more into playing melee burst specs that opposing players hate because participating in ranged tactics is even less of an option now than it was before.

I actually was seeing about 80% of thieves running S/D in tournaments, hotjoins and WvWvW before the patch. I don’t know in which region do you play in, but in EU S/D thieves were popular as kitten.

Nerfing SB doesn’t make other weapon sets better, but nerfing S/D does. It is no more a must go for every thief who wants to be at maximum effectiveness.
SB nerf, as I said, was probably because of design choices.

So all you saw was s/d thieves, i’m thinking its just you or just EU. Even after the larcenous strike change the majority of NA thieves were still running d/p for the most part. A number tested s/d, then promptly went back to d/p. Its true that more played s/d after ls, than before, but to say 80% is just silly, maybe 20%.

So when a set (like d/p) is strong, your idea of a solution is to nerf the thieves best set? Until all sets are not viable?

As for CB nerf being a design choice, gw2 was in development for years, and has been live for almost a year, wouldnt a major design choice like limiting 1 classes range lower than all others be something to decide before the game has been live for a year?

Or how about since its able to be removed with a STUN breaker, make is so that it is effected by +stun duration, ie mes runes, sigil of para

TRON.1085:

Looks like I was right, they gave it higher initiative cost.

Yeah I suppose when you cant improve in game, just become a better forum warrior, win your battles here and you dont have to be good in game.

Daecollo.9578:

Complaining gets things done in this game.

^^Unfortunately it seems to be the case

In higher level fractals, on certain bosses p/p can be half decent. In every other situation in pve, wvw, spvp however a skilled thief will do 2-3x more damage at melee and support much more with shortbow.

Its primarily because p/p as a set doesnt work together well at all, offhand pistol blends very very well with melee sets, since the blind field is small at at your location, whereas the pistol mainhand works better with dagger offhand, giving you access to sneak attack (mini unload). the auto attack is slow and bad dps, body shot is terrible.

Thats why you dont see many thieves running it, p/p has one skill that goes for it, unload, (headshot is very good in certain situations, but helps d/p and s/p just as much)

OIIIIIO.7825:

I will say I read OP and skipped all the rest so pardon if this has been said.

SB did get nerfed, however it came with several trap buffs

Corrosive Traps – Trait (longer Vulnerability)
Shadow Trap – Really good. I suggest using it as a long range Stunbreker/ Teleport

I also played in the SOAC Tournament yesterday with Shadow Trap in sPvP and I will assure you of how wonderful it is

I’ve been putting shadow trap on my bar ever since the patch, because on paper it sounds amazing. And yet over half the time (at least 6/7 out of 10) when i activate it (even at very short ranges) I dont get teleported at all, So I agree the trap itself is wonderful, however the trap relies on shadowstep pathing, which is beyond worthless.

Also, the nerf to cluster bomb hit siege attack/defense warfare for thieves very hard, not a single one of the buffs helps us at all when on wall or below one

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Do you play a class because you like the class or do you play the class because it’s effective? If the latter, then you’ll never really enjoy the class because changes happen all the time. Better save them hair strands and just re-roll smoothly without having to stress about it too much. On that note, I do agree with sorrow on this.

So either have fun playing the class who’s style you like or be effective? Is it really so wrong to actually want all classes to be effective, so we can play the ones we like? I have to disagree with you both, i want to have fun and be effective, not choose one or the other

sorrow.2364:

Shemsu.8721:

So we are using the class outline as gospel now? according to the outline thieves are masters of mobility, so why are our shadowsteps nerfed to the ground but mesmer can teleport through walls, up/down any obstacle, while we fail on a pebble or 1 degree slope, even NECRO retains an infinite range teleport

According to the outline mesmers have low health when you get past clones, yet we have lower health then mesmers, should they nerf mesmer health to bottom tier too? because the outline says so?

Thieves are masters of single target damage, yet killshot can do the same damage as backstab to an entire group at 1500 range (despite outline saying they are not strong at range, and are intended for melee)

Should i continue?

It looks like that you’re incredibly narrow-minded according to what you wrote.

Are you trying to say that Mesmer has better mobility compared to Thief?
Are you trying to say that Warrior’s single target burst damage is better than Thief’s?

If so, I think you should play the game more.

I’m narrow minded? Who’s the one saying that thief should not be allowed to have a 1200 range weapon because it is not specified in the class description. I simply pointed out that those class descriptions are not an accurate state for any class. You started that line of logic, its too bad it goes against your argument

sorrow.2364:

“Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.”

Design concept of thieves according to ANet. (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247)

I can’t see where ArenaNet said that Thief is supposed to be good at long range.
In that topic there are also listed which professions are supposed to be effective at long range but, as you can see, thief is not one of those.

They aren’t supposed to be a Cluster Bomb turrets. If you want to get free badges when attacking or defending a castle, either build and use an Arrowcart, or change profession to another which is supposed to do the WvWvW turret, like Elementalist, Ranger, Necro or Engineer.
If all the professions should have all the same capabilities, why can’t I roam with my Necro as I do with my Thief?

Arkham Creed.7358:

To Sorrow: I wasn’t demanding anything. I was merely making a polite exit, and attempting to say goodbye to a subsection of the Guild Wars 2 community I’ve been with since beta, and who have given me tons of advice and words of encouragement over the last several months. But by your posts I can see the subtleties of tact, diplomacy, and manners are beyond you.

Well, to me, your topic sounds more like another rant than a goodbye.
If you wanted it to look like a goodbye, you should have wrote a different OP.

So we are using the class outline as gospel now? according to the outline thieves are masters of mobility, so why are our shadowsteps nerfed to the ground but mesmer can teleport through walls, up/down any obstacle, while we fail on a pebble or 1 degree slope, even NECRO retains an infinite range teleport

According to the outline mesmers have low health when you get past clones, yet we have lower health then mesmers, should they nerf mesmer health to bottom tier too? because the outline says so?

Thieves are masters of single target damage, yet killshot can do the same damage as backstab to an entire group at 1500 range (despite outline saying they are not strong at range, and are intended for melee)

Should i continue?

Well these are just my thoughts, but.. sword/pistol is a direct damage build, and since we are talking pve we know we can run zerker gear (maybe some valk if you need it).

for DA traitline, i’d use mug and sundering strikes, poison duration doesnt help you much (your only poison is steal) and improvisation is really not to useful

Crit strikes line. I’d 30 pts here, the final trait #11 executioner is your damage bread and butter. also i’d consider furious retalation and either side strike, combo crit chance, or practiced tolerance. depending on your skill level and whether you need the hp/ can stay behind enemy etc

I avoid the signet traits because power and prec signets are best for this build when you dont use them. the passives are great. (agility active is situationally awesome).

if you drop trickery down to 15 (we only use this for the extra init from 5 and 15, inti on steal, and +3 max, keeps you above 6 more often (damage from 25pts in crit strikes) and for trickery trait i’d use thrill of the crimbe, might/swift/fury for you and party

Elite I use basi venom (works well with lyssa runes), but switch it up depending on what your doing, dstorm is great against groups of trash, thieves guild dies very fast on most bosses.

Drop signet of shadows, you dont need that speed in a dungeon/fractal so you can switch it in or out but dont use it in battle. switch your last utility based on whats goin on, smokescreen in harpy fractal for instance. shadowstep when stuns are prevalent, or roll for ini for the stun break and extra ini. Haste isnt terrible either (though its not what it used to be) caltrops will give an extra malice proc every second

Didnt really need the patch to run s/p in pve, same as always if your good with timing run 25/30/0/0/15. If your need extra dodges swap the trickery to acrobatics. use malice heal, lifesteal food, and your good to go (slot caltrops for extra malice procs if needed, otherwise as usual focus on power/prec signets, and whatever third utility you need

Asurastafarian.9708:

Sure, you can have your 1200’ range weapon as soon as they take away that ridiculous 1500’ steal teleport trait.

Yes please! Where do I sign? Since shadowstep pathing is now “fixed” and my steal doesnt move me at all but goes on cd anyway, I’d much much have a weapon that can reach my enemies than a single ability that fails more often than it works.

Hell change long reach from 1500 range steal to pistol/shortbow range is 1200. I’ll even waste points in trickery for that!

sorrow.2364:

evilapprentice.6379:

I can agree that P/P isn’t a good set in PvP (but it is quite good in PvE), mainly because shortbow is always a better choice as ranged weapon and P/D lacks synergy, but the Vital Shot buff is still a good buff.
Stacking vulnerability as easy on boss is a good thing.

Thieves have access to more conditions. Venoms have a whole set of conditions that can be applied on demand. You can cover your bleed stacks with Torment, Poison or Chill. Plus, there are several traits in the power traitline which grants situational conditions. Don’t forget also stolen things. Some of them give some extra conditions and CC. Condi thieves, now, are pretty much forced to build around steal too, so it is a factor to take into consideration. Not every condition spec needs to have access to every condition in this game.

If you want your Shadow Trap not to trigger, just put it when you know it doesn’t trigger. It isn’t that hard and I can easily place them in safe spots to run away when needed. It is a very strong skill as a stunbreaker, mobility and escape.

Merciful Ambush is the right trait to pick when you have only 10-15 points into trickery. It competes with nothing in that case.

Regarding PW, it is possible that people escape to some hit, but with Sigil of Paralization, it is quite hard that some hits misses. 15% damage nerf is low. I can crit for 8k in sPvP in zerker gear, I don’t think it can have a damage buff without getting into the OP side.

Don’t forget, also, that SB had an implicit buff. Choking Gas + Cluster bomb still gives weakness, which is now really really strong. This alone makes me forget about the range nerf to cluster bomb.

First off, vital shot didnt get touched, which is why p/p is still a worthless set in every game mode. Secondly, stacking vuln on bosses? yeah its great! for 1.5 seconds thanks to unshakeable/defiant, well then it becomes worthless.

As for shadow trap, I agree it could be an amazing change, except they already “fixed” shadowstep pathing, so at best its a stun break that doesnt move you anywhere and might give you a short 5 second buff. All in all, fix shadowstep pathing and it could be something great, until then however its still not good.

Merciful ambush will never be better that totc in a power build or dodgetrops in a condi build. ever.

As far as PW goes, it might be worth using sigil or para or mesmer runes, if more of our abilities worked with them. you can break STUN on basi venom, but you cant boost it with STUN duration? huh? so until those issues get resolved, people can easily step out of pw, meaning this change has very little effect on dps.

As for the cluster nerf, i’m not sure how you can forget about it or defend, its absurd. WvW siege fights are built around ranges at and above 1200, being the only class restricted to 900 completely is just bad design

Why do all living story events have to be 100% for pve. Have wvw players gotten ANY events since launch? Why is it so bad that 1 out of 15 achievements is geared towards pvp players for once, after almost a year?

Shadowsteps have been failing very very consistently for me the last 4-6 weeks, the patch after they reduced the shadow return range, they “fixed” shadowstep pathing

IA never broke immob. it just allowed you to teleport while still immobilized. The reason you didnt move, was most likely because the shadowstep pathing failed, as it does constantly ever since they “fixed” it in the last two patches

HiS I dont think is intended to remove all damaging conditions. As it has never removed confusion which has always been around. My guess is thakittens intended to remove only standard DoTs that you cant otherwise negate (confusion you can negate by not activating abilities, torment reduced by not moving)

Kallist.5917:

It seems like the update broke it. Ive been having issues with Infiltrators strike only warping me 3 or 4 feet.

Not this update, the last two patches they adjusted shadowsteps, 2 patches ago they “fixed” the range on shadow return. then last big patch they “fixed” shadowstep pathing. since then, we cant do vertical movement anywhere it seems, and if there is the smallest pebble or tiny slope to the flat ground your on, that will count as going up and down and cause shadowsteps to fail.

MIrra.3604:

Travlane.5948:

@mirra im pretty sure thats wrong. only reason you could use shadow return instead of any other skill is bc it was a stun break. same with shadow return on SS>and removes 3 conditions. take that away and you wont. :/

Last time I checked, you can use instant cast when you’re stun. One example is Mesmer’s Staff #2 and thief’s Blinding Power. It won’t break the stun but the ability will fire. Most importantly regarding Shadow Return is the ability to port back and not necessary the break stun portion. The stun break was just the icing on the cake.

I predict Shadow Return will work similarly to Mesmer’s Staff 2; you will be stun but you can still teleport back.

yes you can use instant cast when stunned. And the teleport USED to be the best aspect. However since they “fixed” the shadow return range and “fixed” the teleport patting the last two patches, more than half the time I use I don’t move at all or I get stuck on a pebble two inches away. So the stun break is all that is left. If they remove that I will use the skill and still be stunned stuck on the closest patting glitch awaiting death.

nirvana.8245:

Shemsu.8721:

nirvana.8245:

Shemsu.8721:

nirvana.8245:

Shemsu.8721:

nirvana.8245:

Atherakhia.4086:

D/P is only powerful because initiative regen allows it to maintain perma stealth and lose no DPS from hidden killer+backstab+heartseeker.

The initiative regen needs to be balanced across the board. Maybe have a single trait to increase the cap and that’s it. It all regens at the same rate regardless of build. That way if you use a more utility oriented weapon set like D/P over D/D you would actually show a real DPS loss for doing it.

Once initiative regen is fixed then we can worry about compensating the class for it as only people who haven’t played the class would think nerfing stealth won’t have enormous ramifications on the class as a whole.

Kinda true. But you should still be getting a reveal status when you attack from stealth with a heartseeker – combo field is not doing and thus broken. But totally, this permastealth build is kitten. If your able to permastealth you should be paying for it in loss of DPS.

I’m sorry but you are wrong. Smoke field combo is not broken. If you are in stealth and hit someone you get revealed. If you hs thru smokefield while visible the system processes damage then applies combo bonus. If it did not work this way it would be broken and worthless

I can so I’m right.

OK. So your claiming you can stealth then attack and damage someone and not gain revealed? Video plz or false.

Hang on a sec, Ill back this up. You just told me the ability to permastealth is completely useless. Care to explain?

are you mixing up threads or something? Put the pipe down and read again. I said If you are in stealth and damage someone with heartseeker you get revealed. You said this was not true. I asked for proof

I’m referring to this:

“If it did not work this way it would be broken and worthless”. Id like to know why you think a mechanic that can provide permanent stealth would be broken and worthless.

what would be the point of a smoke combo field If when you use it. All you get is revealed. Personally I think the stealth should only be granted in combat. No more permastealth. This combat and stealth system seems intended for dynamic in and out stealth.

nirvana.8245:

Shemsu.8721:

nirvana.8245:

Shemsu.8721:

nirvana.8245:

Atherakhia.4086:

D/P is only powerful because initiative regen allows it to maintain perma stealth and lose no DPS from hidden killer+backstab+heartseeker.

The initiative regen needs to be balanced across the board. Maybe have a single trait to increase the cap and that’s it. It all regens at the same rate regardless of build. That way if you use a more utility oriented weapon set like D/P over D/D you would actually show a real DPS loss for doing it.

Once initiative regen is fixed then we can worry about compensating the class for it as only people who haven’t played the class would think nerfing stealth won’t have enormous ramifications on the class as a whole.

Kinda true. But you should still be getting a reveal status when you attack from stealth with a heartseeker – combo field is not doing and thus broken. But totally, this permastealth build is kitten. If your able to permastealth you should be paying for it in loss of DPS.

I’m sorry but you are wrong. Smoke field combo is not broken. If you are in stealth and hit someone you get revealed. If you hs thru smokefield while visible the system processes damage then applies combo bonus. If it did not work this way it would be broken and worthless

I can so I’m right.

OK. So your claiming you can stealth then attack and damage someone and not gain revealed? Video plz or false.

Hang on a sec, Ill back this up. You just told me the ability to permastealth is completely useless. Care to explain?

are you mixing up threads or something? Put the pipe down and read again. I said If you are in stealth and damage someone with heartseeker you get revealed. You said this was not true. I asked for proof

nirvana.8245:

Shemsu.8721:

nirvana.8245:

Atherakhia.4086:

D/P is only powerful because initiative regen allows it to maintain perma stealth and lose no DPS from hidden killer+backstab+heartseeker.

The initiative regen needs to be balanced across the board. Maybe have a single trait to increase the cap and that’s it. It all regens at the same rate regardless of build. That way if you use a more utility oriented weapon set like D/P over D/D you would actually show a real DPS loss for doing it.

Once initiative regen is fixed then we can worry about compensating the class for it as only people who haven’t played the class would think nerfing stealth won’t have enormous ramifications on the class as a whole.

Kinda true. But you should still be getting a reveal status when you attack from stealth with a heartseeker – combo field is not doing and thus broken. But totally, this permastealth build is kitten. If your able to permastealth you should be paying for it in loss of DPS.

I’m sorry but you are wrong. Smoke field combo is not broken. If you are in stealth and hit someone you get revealed. If you hs thru smokefield while visible the system processes damage then applies combo bonus. If it did not work this way it would be broken and worthless

I can so I’m right.

OK. So your claiming you can stealth then attack and damage someone and not gain revealed? Video plz or false.

nirvana.8245:

Atherakhia.4086:

D/P is only powerful because initiative regen allows it to maintain perma stealth and lose no DPS from hidden killer+backstab+heartseeker.

The initiative regen needs to be balanced across the board. Maybe have a single trait to increase the cap and that’s it. It all regens at the same rate regardless of build. That way if you use a more utility oriented weapon set like D/P over D/D you would actually show a real DPS loss for doing it.

Once initiative regen is fixed then we can worry about compensating the class for it as only people who haven’t played the class would think nerfing stealth won’t have enormous ramifications on the class as a whole.

Kinda true. But you should still be getting a reveal status when you attack from stealth with a heartseeker – combo field is not doing and thus broken. But totally, this permastealth build is kitten. If your able to permastealth you should be paying for it in loss of DPS.

I’m sorry but you are wrong. Smoke field combo is not broken. If you are in stealth and hit someone you get revealed. If you hs thru smokefield while visible the system processes damage then applies combo bonus. If it did not work this way it would be broken and worthless

Thrumdi.9216:

Atherakhia.4086:

You need a gear treadmill in any MMO or players simply won’t come back. GW2 is doing it properly as the gear treadmill is mostly aesthetic and doesn’t give dramatic increases in ability with each tier of gear.

Now that the daily and monthly can be completed entirely in WvW, I don’t see the problem. Laurels are slow, sure. But you also have access to guild commendations to help you get the gear faster if you want. You could run fractals for the rings if you want.

Gear isn’t going to be handed to you. If you could gear all your players in a week, you wouldn’t keep playing the game. It’s working better in GW2 then it does in most games.

Awarding endgame gear through dailies (even if they are easy) is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen in a AAA MMO. Currently, WvW’ers must do dailies, or PvE for Ascended.

Why? Because of PvE players. The current WvW Dev actually said letting us buy Ascendeds for badges would “devalue” the effort PvE’ers put in to grind their gear.

So, the problem is actually sharing gear between PvE and WvW.

The solution is a PvP-only stat for WvW gear. This would let WvW have it’s own gear track. It would freeze out casual WvW’ers players, but it would save the game mode for the dedicated.

Or just ignore ascended gear. It’s barely better at all. Unless keep lords start using massive aoe agony attacks, you don’t need it all.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Churning Earth- Damage is similiar to thieves backstab
Hundred Blades- Damage is more than thieves backstab, but still comparable
Fire Grab- Damage is similiar to thieves backstab
Eviscerate- Damage is similiar to thieves backstab
Dragons tooth- Damage is similiar to thieves backstab
A bunch of other classes skills too that are similiar to thieves backstab damage, because im too lazy to name them ALL.

Disparity- All the other classes high hitting skills require A)conditional situations. ie; Dragons tooth needs an immobilize, churning earth needs lightning flash, fire grab needs close range + burning condition, ECT. B ) No class besides mesmer and thief can utilize stealth to land their attacks. C) No other class besides thief can handle EXTREME pressure! Glass cannon thieves can survive upwards of a ZERG. D) Every other class besides thief ACTUALLY HAS A COOLDOWN………. The thieves backstab has NO cooldown!!!! Technically it does, as a reveal of 3s prevents re stealth. So, its safe to say thieves Backstab has a THREE SECOND COOLDOWN. Ill let you guys think about that.

Wow. Where to start. So backstab has no requirements? Don’t need to be in stealth? Don’t need melee range? Don’t need position behind enemy? All the reqs you listed are false. You can cast tooth and churning without cc. You cannot backstab without the the things I mentioned. You don’t know what requirement means I think. Also check YouTube for videos of many classes surviving zergs. Eles are better than thieves even. As for cooldowns going into stealth require a utility with CDs or initiative which is a global weapon cooldown.

Yamsandjams.3267:

DanH.5879:

omg, i can’t target the thief while he stealthed next to me !
pls nerf thief more, 10x

Well, the mesmer greatsword is one of the weapons that gets screwed in this context. It won’t hit anything if it doesn’t have a target, so even if yoIII iu know exactly where the thief is, the auto-attack won’t work. Neither will iZerker. It’s the same thing with necro scepter.

I was never a fan of the whole chain stealing, but I think it’s hear to stay.

One thing you could do if you really really really wanted is lay an anti-stealth trap on the dolyak’s path. That way, the thief would not be able to stealth when it hit it, and you could attack him all out.

I could swear Mesmer had at least one weapon other than greatsword. I’m fairly certain they can even weapon swap. Imagine if OP had made use of basic mechanics

sostronk.8167:

Atherakhia.4086:

You need a gear treadmill in any MMO or players simply won’t come back.

sPvP doesn’t have this level of a gear tredmill…

Atherakhia.4086:

GW2 is doing it properly as the gear treadmill is mostly aesthetic and doesn’t give dramatic increases in ability with each tier of gear.

Ascended is the exception, that’s why its the problem. It offers significant stat advantages when coupled together.

Atherakhia.4086:

Gear isn’t going to be handed to you. If you could gear all your players in a week, you wouldn’t keep playing the game. It’s working better in GW2 then it does in most games.

Im a solo roamer. Its a common role in WvW. I have 8 classes. I need 125 laruels to fully gear one character for WvW, using rings from FotM. That’s 1000 laurels needed. The problem isn’t that it takes a week to get the laurels. The problem is, if you do every daily and every monthly in a month you get 40 Laurels. Its going to take me a minimum of 25 months to get all these for my classes. And they are talking about adding Ascended armor this year…

significant stat advantage? Really? Did you mean to type insignificant? If not how do you consider 1% a massive stat advantage?

Nothing is broken. He was using cloak and dagger to stealth after stealth wore off naturally. He didn’t attack the yak from stealth so he wasn’t revealed. That’s why the battle took so long. If he had backstabbed the yak he would have finished it much quicker. What you could have done is found a way to make cnd miss or fail and he would have run out of initiative. Also don’t Mesmer have weapon swaps?