Guild Wars 2

a t s e.9614:

lol ok, Im bad and D/P is OP, now show me a video of you beating a hambow warrior with D/D I wanna see that. You so pro!

d/p isnt op, more like training wheels, once you learn how to you can use a real weapon set (condi builds are pretty much the same thing)

I’m curious, looking at all the proposed new traits and changes, I see some amazing build diversity in many of the other classes traits, i’m not calling anything op but there are some great options being given to some classes. Yet I dont see ANY of the proposed traits for thief being used much if at all by high end players (pvp or pve)

I thought we were trying to promote thief builds that were not reliant on stealth or at least less reliant, yet 3 of 5 traits are based on stealth again. I’m so disappointed. I was in the hospital for 6 months unable to play and just came back a few weeks ago after getting out, I was very optimistic when i started reading about the big balance/feature patch. Now I’m not sure its even worth playing my main anymore, considering how much catch up I have to do with all the ascended gear grind. Ohh well had to get it off my chest and vent a little.

Magische Boek.2530:

why in the critical strike line? both GM traits there are used in builds, hidden killer in D/D and executioner in like every other build, cant they take some crappy GM to replace it with? or will we get a 3rd GM in critical strikes?

Check the blog out, every trait line for every class will get one new gm trait, nothing is being removed

Lert.6287:

Black Teagan.9215:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Jelzouki.4128:

Why does everyone think we’re OP?

Because when you go on youtube and type Thief vs Zerg you see things no other profession can pull off.

Yes, if you search only after “thief vs zerg” then will you never find any other videos, especially these were the other classes do the same.

He didn’t say “you won’t see other proffessions” but “you will see things no other proffession is capable of” – please, read with understanding next time than trying to be wise-champ in here.

Which is a pointless statement as every profession is capable of things that no other profession can do……

Dean Calaway.9718:

Jelzouki.4128:

Why does everyone think we’re OP?

Because when you go on youtube and type Thief vs Zerg you see things no other profession can pull off.

You are certainly correct,if you type thief vs zerg you only find videos about thieves. try typing guardian vs zerg or elementalist vs zerg or mesmer vs zerg, you may be surprised

Obscure One.4357:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Dee Jay.2460:

Stealth does not make Thieves disappear.

Tell that to my ranger pet – thieves have this core mechanic that totally and fully puts the rangers’ core mechanic out of the game.

You see…this is what I’m talking about.

Stealth is not a core mechanic of thieves. You remove thieves from the game and stealth is still there. You remove rangers from the game and pets aren’t in the game. See the difference?

Fundamental difference between core mechanics of thief and core mechanics of stealth. Stealth is not a core class mechanic anymore than the Burning condition is a Guardians core class mechanic.

Just run “Sic Em!” after the up coming patch and your problems will be solved…well other than the fact ANet has yet to make Rangers as viable as literally any other class outside of sPvP because they’re seemingly obsessed with halfassing class mechanics.

Stealth attacks are a unique mechanic EXCLUSIVE to thieves. no other classes attacks change when in stealth, despite half the classes in game having stealth access. In addition we have an entire traitline dedicated to stealth. So yeah I’d say stealth is pretty built in to thief CORE design

Kasama.8941:

Shemsu.8721:

Kasama.8941:

ArenaNet will not reduce the current amount of stealth options the Thief has, simply because they are afraid that the Thief will become the most underplayed professions, again. Most players who plays the Thief, plays it because of the way stealth and backstab currently works, as this playstyle resembles how an Assassin plays. If you where to remove that “feeling”, by reducing the amount of stealth options, you would lose a lot of Thief players. But I still think it needs to be done. The Thief should play like a Thief, not like an Assassin.

Again with the name nit picking? So I suppose they should remove sword from the class, since its called thief and not swashbuckler or duelist? And they shouldnt have a shortbow since the class isnt called archer right? Its not called marksman or pistoleer so i guess no pistols either. And you already pointed out its not called assassin, so no daggers either………

It’s not just about the name. It’s about what ArenaNet told us the profession was going to play like, even before the game was released. Stating that: “Unlike other games, stealth is not unlimited in Guild Wars 2. Stealth is a very powerful ability, and so we want it to be something that players use strategically, as opposed to something that’s a safety-net, that they have on all the time”.

When I say the Thief shouldn’t play like an Assassin, I’m referring to the classic Assassin move of dealing high damage when coming out of stealth, and being in stealth for the majority of time. The Thief is suppose the be the master of movement first, and a master of stealth second. Why go through a lot of effort to make a Thief profession, if it just ends up playing like an Assassin anyway? ArenaNet needs to stop pleasing the Assassin crowd, and tone down the stealth options, to force players into using movement more. Then give the Thief some boons in return, like aegis and protection, to improve survivability a bit.

You’ve got it all wrong though, the ‘class assassin move of dealing high damage when coming out of stealth’ is a THIEF thing, not assassin. before there was any of the current mmo’s the main rpg was dungeons and dragons, and both stealth and backstab belonged to what profession? THIEF

Avatara.1042:

Shemsu.8721:

TexRob.5183:

Shemsu.8721:

TexRob.5183:

One alternative to those complaining about stealth is to have two forms, one pre-combat, same as it is. One that you are translucent, like a shadows form, where you can’t be targeted, but you can be hit by everything if they position towards you and use target based attacks, or AE. This is how it is now, just with people being able to know where the thief is now. I’m not saying to remove where they can totally stealth, but maybe change some skills around so total stealth is on a cooldown that can’t get them right back out of combat multiple times in a fight.

Exactly what would be the point of invisibility thats visible?

What’s the point of being able to read words if you can’t understand them?

Stealth does not mitigate damage in anyway, its only defensive value lies in that fact that enemies cannot see you. so tell, what would be the point if they could? How about we make two versions of protection, out of combat protection provides normal 33% reduced damage, in combat protection makes you translucent but provides no damage mitigation? apply the same to aegis, regen stability etc

He said you cannot be targeted…

So mesmers couldnt summon clones/phantasm. Thats about all that really needs a target in this game, all melee can be used without target, most ranged attacks can be dumb fired, not to mention aoe, pbaoe.

Ostra.3927:

MMO tiering 101.

Build gameworld around exotic stat level. = GW2 release
Majority of people get to the exotic stat level = gw2 1 month
Raise the stat level to cater to the traditional (WoW/EQ) model = GW2 Ascended
Majority of people get Ascended = gw2 in 3 months
Cater to the players that say the world is WAY to easy now = Increase World bosses and mob HP/Damage in all upper areas = GW2 in 5 months.
Ascended stat level now required for any high end areas
Players are getting tired of Ascended and want more challenge = Transcended trinkets

THAT is the future of GW2. By adding ascended stats when the world was designed for EXOTIC level stats… the only outcome for the future is to then raise the danger and challenge of the high end zones thus flushing out the last exotic users and pushing them to require Ascended.

Then the cycle just continues.

Does it get hot under that tinfoil hat?

TexRob.5183:

Shemsu.8721:

TexRob.5183:

One alternative to those complaining about stealth is to have two forms, one pre-combat, same as it is. One that you are translucent, like a shadows form, where you can’t be targeted, but you can be hit by everything if they position towards you and use target based attacks, or AE. This is how it is now, just with people being able to know where the thief is now. I’m not saying to remove where they can totally stealth, but maybe change some skills around so total stealth is on a cooldown that can’t get them right back out of combat multiple times in a fight.

Exactly what would be the point of invisibility thats visible?

What’s the point of being able to read words if you can’t understand them?

Stealth does not mitigate damage in anyway, its only defensive value lies in that fact that enemies cannot see you. so tell, what would be the point if they could? How about we make two versions of protection, out of combat protection provides normal 33% reduced damage, in combat protection makes you translucent but provides no damage mitigation? apply the same to aegis, regen stability etc

TexRob.5183:

One alternative to those complaining about stealth is to have two forms, one pre-combat, same as it is. One that you are translucent, like a shadows form, where you can’t be targeted, but you can be hit by everything if they position towards you and use target based attacks, or AE. This is how it is now, just with people being able to know where the thief is now. I’m not saying to remove where they can totally stealth, but maybe change some skills around so total stealth is on a cooldown that can’t get them right back out of combat multiple times in a fight.

Exactly what would be the point of invisibility thats visible?

Daendur.2357:

Thieves should have a trait to make traps ground target.

Traps need a massive overall, even ground target wouldnt make em useful right now

haviz.1340:

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

So we’re only talking about the highest level of fractals? Remove it from the rest of the game then. I was figuring in WvW and such. Only the people on high level fractals “needing” to craft this would solve a lot of things for me :P

I think they messed up on the name, I just like something to work towards in Pve/WvW.

Why fractal runner should be forced to craft? Is crafting panel a part of fractals? Or maybe you can chop a tree in fractal?

You dont have to craft for fractals… since when do fractal levels 1-9 require anything but masterwork/rare gear at most. You can grind fractals all you want without gearing up at all. If you want to grind the same stages over and over with just more hp/dps on enemies well thats your thing, grind some weapons out too since you seem to like grind

Sanduskel.1850:

Shemsu.8721:

Knote.2904:

Shemsu.8721:

Carl the Well Endowed.6925:

Shemsu.8721:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Shemsu.8721:

RyuDragnier.9476:

All I want for Longbow is for the damage dealt at furthest range to be the normal damage across all ranges. But a longer distance should equal higher critical damage IMO.

All I want from backstab is for the damage dealt from behind to be the normal damage from all directions. But a stab from behind should equal higher critical damage IMO

This is completely different from backstab amigo. Backstab is burst damage, and is easy to pull off. Longbow’s #1 is outright useless outside of super long range and it’s very hard to do that in PvE, resulting in the weapon outright sucking to the point where it’s rarely used anywhere but WvW. Whereas the Dagger mainhand on a thief is powerful enough to be used in WvW, PvP, AND PvE.

so a MELEE attack thats only available with a special buff, AND requires specific position, is harder to pull off than a 1500 range spammable autoattack? You musta bought the good stuff this week, that or your doctor messed up your prescription. How about we make the under 25% of heartseeker damage apply to all the damage ranges? no, dont like that either. You cant have the full range damage at all ranges, that defeats the purpose, at best if you dont like the mechanic of damage changing on range, then take the mid range damage and make that all ranges, with no changes at full range (since you dont like things changing at full range)

If rangers actually had the ability to keep foes at long distance than this would make sense, but any class can close the distance and make the longbow almost completely useless. Sure we have the knockback but that is mitigated by stability and now stun break will also get you out of this. “Hunter’s Shot” should have a root similar to the warriors “Pin Down” making the lb a little more viable 1v1 (although it would still be next to useless unless the damage at close range is increased).

Again, this is not making sense. Your asking for a weapon designed to be long range, to be most effective at melee? I want my dagger to be effective at 1500 range, guess i shoulda picked a different weapon. Thats not what its for, every weapon (mostly) has a place and a purpose. If your going to fight up close, dont take longbow or make it effective at at short range, and take away the 1200-1500 range and bring it down to 120-300 like everyone elses close range weapons.

Ironically a lot of long range siege type weapons are far more effective in melee than they ever are at range.

Thief Shortbow Clusterbomb for instance.

Engy Grenades.

Guardian Sceptre.

Warrior Longbow.

Thief shortbow is long range siege? are you joking? Rangers can throw a dagger farther than thief can shoot a shortbow, thief shortbow is medium range at best, and thats assuming that the enemy doesnt sit down, have a cup of tea then sidestep (dont even have to dodge) one step away to avoid both of the damage attacks

actually ranger dagger and thief sb are the same range.

short bow all attacks are 900

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crippling_Talon
ranger dagger 1200

try again?

Knote.2904:

Shemsu.8721:

Knote.2904:

Shemsu.8721:

Carl the Well Endowed.6925:

Shemsu.8721:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Shemsu.8721:

RyuDragnier.9476:

All I want for Longbow is for the damage dealt at furthest range to be the normal damage across all ranges. But a longer distance should equal higher critical damage IMO.

All I want from backstab is for the damage dealt from behind to be the normal damage from all directions. But a stab from behind should equal higher critical damage IMO

This is completely different from backstab amigo. Backstab is burst damage, and is easy to pull off. Longbow’s #1 is outright useless outside of super long range and it’s very hard to do that in PvE, resulting in the weapon outright sucking to the point where it’s rarely used anywhere but WvW. Whereas the Dagger mainhand on a thief is powerful enough to be used in WvW, PvP, AND PvE.

so a MELEE attack thats only available with a special buff, AND requires specific position, is harder to pull off than a 1500 range spammable autoattack? You musta bought the good stuff this week, that or your doctor messed up your prescription. How about we make the under 25% of heartseeker damage apply to all the damage ranges? no, dont like that either. You cant have the full range damage at all ranges, that defeats the purpose, at best if you dont like the mechanic of damage changing on range, then take the mid range damage and make that all ranges, with no changes at full range (since you dont like things changing at full range)

If rangers actually had the ability to keep foes at long distance than this would make sense, but any class can close the distance and make the longbow almost completely useless. Sure we have the knockback but that is mitigated by stability and now stun break will also get you out of this. “Hunter’s Shot” should have a root similar to the warriors “Pin Down” making the lb a little more viable 1v1 (although it would still be next to useless unless the damage at close range is increased).

Again, this is not making sense. Your asking for a weapon designed to be long range, to be most effective at melee? I want my dagger to be effective at 1500 range, guess i shoulda picked a different weapon. Thats not what its for, every weapon (mostly) has a place and a purpose. If your going to fight up close, dont take longbow or make it effective at at short range, and take away the 1200-1500 range and bring it down to 120-300 like everyone elses close range weapons.

Ironically a lot of long range siege type weapons are far more effective in melee than they ever are at range.

Thief Shortbow Clusterbomb for instance.

Engy Grenades.

Guardian Sceptre.

Warrior Longbow.

Thief shortbow is long range siege? are you joking? Rangers can throw a dagger farther than thief can shoot a shortbow, thief shortbow is medium range at best, and thats assuming that the enemy doesnt sit down, have a cup of tea then sidestep (dont even have to dodge) one step away to avoid both of the damage attacks

Um… yes, clusterbomb is long range siege.

1200 slow high dmg exploding projectiles, hard to use long range and much slower DPS, easy as kitten to hit melee range and much higher DPS.

Err, and thief with shortbow should be the last person to complain about people side stepping their auto’s, thief shortbow auto actually homes in a bit, how does it miss on people side stepping lol?

Go talk to a guardian. =p

Wow your so wrong, all shortbow attacks are 900, thief has NO 1200 range weapon at all. Secondly they nerfed shortbow auto, it does NOT home anymore, just a straight shot thats easy to sidestep. Read patch notes more man, this is all very very old news. And clusterbomb melee range will be relevant when i can shadowstep up tower walls, until then I’m forced to be at range with one attack thats barely viable. try again

Knote.2904:

Shemsu.8721:

Carl the Well Endowed.6925:

Shemsu.8721:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Shemsu.8721:

RyuDragnier.9476:

All I want for Longbow is for the damage dealt at furthest range to be the normal damage across all ranges. But a longer distance should equal higher critical damage IMO.

All I want from backstab is for the damage dealt from behind to be the normal damage from all directions. But a stab from behind should equal higher critical damage IMO

This is completely different from backstab amigo. Backstab is burst damage, and is easy to pull off. Longbow’s #1 is outright useless outside of super long range and it’s very hard to do that in PvE, resulting in the weapon outright sucking to the point where it’s rarely used anywhere but WvW. Whereas the Dagger mainhand on a thief is powerful enough to be used in WvW, PvP, AND PvE.

so a MELEE attack thats only available with a special buff, AND requires specific position, is harder to pull off than a 1500 range spammable autoattack? You musta bought the good stuff this week, that or your doctor messed up your prescription. How about we make the under 25% of heartseeker damage apply to all the damage ranges? no, dont like that either. You cant have the full range damage at all ranges, that defeats the purpose, at best if you dont like the mechanic of damage changing on range, then take the mid range damage and make that all ranges, with no changes at full range (since you dont like things changing at full range)

If rangers actually had the ability to keep foes at long distance than this would make sense, but any class can close the distance and make the longbow almost completely useless. Sure we have the knockback but that is mitigated by stability and now stun break will also get you out of this. “Hunter’s Shot” should have a root similar to the warriors “Pin Down” making the lb a little more viable 1v1 (although it would still be next to useless unless the damage at close range is increased).

Again, this is not making sense. Your asking for a weapon designed to be long range, to be most effective at melee? I want my dagger to be effective at 1500 range, guess i shoulda picked a different weapon. Thats not what its for, every weapon (mostly) has a place and a purpose. If your going to fight up close, dont take longbow or make it effective at at short range, and take away the 1200-1500 range and bring it down to 120-300 like everyone elses close range weapons.

Ironically a lot of long range siege type weapons are far more effective in melee than they ever are at range.

Thief Shortbow Clusterbomb for instance.

Engy Grenades.

Guardian Sceptre.

Warrior Longbow.

Thief shortbow is long range siege? are you joking? Rangers can throw a dagger farther than thief can shoot a shortbow, thief shortbow is medium range at best, and thats assuming that the enemy doesnt sit down, have a cup of tea then sidestep (dont even have to dodge) one step away to avoid both of the damage attacks

maddoctor.2738:

rjnemer.7816:

What do you guys think of ascended armor being buyable with fractal relics (+ maybe a couple of pristine relics). It would work just like dungeon tokens do now.

Obviously this would just be ONE way of getting the armor. I mean it would be cool to get more then ascended rings and a back piece from the place that you know… ACTUALLY REQUIRES ASCENDED.

Maybe they should first make Ascended Weapons available from something other than Crafting?

Also, I do believe/hope that Ascended Armor will be available through Dungeons -first. We have:
Ascended Accessories -> Guild Missions
Ascended Amulets -> Laurels
Ascended Rings -> Fractals
Ascended Backpiece -> Fractals
Ascended Weapons -> Crafting (Also requiring, World Bosses, Champions, optional WvW)

So I do believe that Ascended Armor should be available through Dungeons in some way or form. Not with tokens obviously, to keep it consistent with the Grind needed for the other Ascended pieces it would require a few milion tokens per piece.

Also, if you check your collectibles bank you can clearly see materials for Jewelry and Armor, they are just not available in-game yet.

Your list of where to get ascended is horribly inaccurate, except for back slot items not a single part of your list is correct.

Carl the Well Endowed.6925:

Shemsu.8721:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Shemsu.8721:

RyuDragnier.9476:

All I want for Longbow is for the damage dealt at furthest range to be the normal damage across all ranges. But a longer distance should equal higher critical damage IMO.

All I want from backstab is for the damage dealt from behind to be the normal damage from all directions. But a stab from behind should equal higher critical damage IMO

This is completely different from backstab amigo. Backstab is burst damage, and is easy to pull off. Longbow’s #1 is outright useless outside of super long range and it’s very hard to do that in PvE, resulting in the weapon outright sucking to the point where it’s rarely used anywhere but WvW. Whereas the Dagger mainhand on a thief is powerful enough to be used in WvW, PvP, AND PvE.

so a MELEE attack thats only available with a special buff, AND requires specific position, is harder to pull off than a 1500 range spammable autoattack? You musta bought the good stuff this week, that or your doctor messed up your prescription. How about we make the under 25% of heartseeker damage apply to all the damage ranges? no, dont like that either. You cant have the full range damage at all ranges, that defeats the purpose, at best if you dont like the mechanic of damage changing on range, then take the mid range damage and make that all ranges, with no changes at full range (since you dont like things changing at full range)

If rangers actually had the ability to keep foes at long distance than this would make sense, but any class can close the distance and make the longbow almost completely useless. Sure we have the knockback but that is mitigated by stability and now stun break will also get you out of this. “Hunter’s Shot” should have a root similar to the warriors “Pin Down” making the lb a little more viable 1v1 (although it would still be next to useless unless the damage at close range is increased).

Again, this is not making sense. Your asking for a weapon designed to be long range, to be most effective at melee? I want my dagger to be effective at 1500 range, guess i shoulda picked a different weapon. Thats not what its for, every weapon (mostly) has a place and a purpose. If your going to fight up close, dont take longbow or make it effective at at short range, and take away the 1200-1500 range and bring it down to 120-300 like everyone elses close range weapons.

Kasama.8941:

ArenaNet will not reduce the current amount of stealth options the Thief has, simply because they are afraid that the Thief will become the most underplayed professions, again. Most players who plays the Thief, plays it because of the way stealth and backstab currently works, as this playstyle resembles how an Assassin plays. If you where to remove that “feeling”, by reducing the amount of stealth options, you would lose a lot of Thief players. But I still think it needs to be done. The Thief should play like a Thief, not like an Assassin.

Again with the name nit picking? So I suppose they should remove sword from the class, since its called thief and not swashbuckler or duelist? And they shouldnt have a shortbow since the class isnt called archer right? Its not called marksman or pistoleer so i guess no pistols either. And you already pointed out its not called assassin, so no daggers either………

RyuDragnier.9476:

Shemsu.8721:

RyuDragnier.9476:

All I want for Longbow is for the damage dealt at furthest range to be the normal damage across all ranges. But a longer distance should equal higher critical damage IMO.

All I want from backstab is for the damage dealt from behind to be the normal damage from all directions. But a stab from behind should equal higher critical damage IMO

This is completely different from backstab amigo. Backstab is burst damage, and is easy to pull off. Longbow’s #1 is outright useless outside of super long range and it’s very hard to do that in PvE, resulting in the weapon outright sucking to the point where it’s rarely used anywhere but WvW. Whereas the Dagger mainhand on a thief is powerful enough to be used in WvW, PvP, AND PvE.

so a MELEE attack thats only available with a special buff, AND requires specific position, is harder to pull off than a 1500 range spammable autoattack? You musta bought the good stuff this week, that or your doctor messed up your prescription. How about we make the under 25% of heartseeker damage apply to all the damage ranges? no, dont like that either. You cant have the full range damage at all ranges, that defeats the purpose, at best if you dont like the mechanic of damage changing on range, then take the mid range damage and make that all ranges, with no changes at full range (since you dont like things changing at full range)

RyuDragnier.9476:

All I want for Longbow is for the damage dealt at furthest range to be the normal damage across all ranges. But a longer distance should equal higher critical damage IMO.

All I want from backstab is for the damage dealt from behind to be the normal damage from all directions. But a stab from behind should equal higher critical damage IMO

Erick Alastor.3917:

Vorch.2985:

The only self-imposed restrictions you have made for yourself are FotM >20 (if you don’t want to “farm” fractals) and WvW (b/c people who love WvW obviously farm for full ascended gear before they enter).

You can do literally everything else in the game still. And karma should come naturally if you still play general PvE for 1-2 hours a day. No need to farm…

However, if the daily is too much effort for you…idk, man. I usually get mine done in 15 minutes after I do what I was going to do anyway. Takes about 30 minutes if I just log on for the daily (or 20 minutes if I decide to do the sPvP daily).

Erick Alastor.3917:

If it as nothing to do with numbers, even GW2 is istanced, but the cap is higher…
so GW2 is not an mmorpg…
Do you see now why I said that the only meter to define an mmorpg is the interaction between a lot of people? :O

No one you know would call that an MMO? (I have to post it again .-.)

Even ANet refers to GW1 as a CORPG…and it was.
As a GWAMM, I already know that GW1 was a CORPG…b/c it was.
There’s nothing wrong with that…

By your definition, CoD is an MMO b/c people interact on CoD forums and on voice chat.
While I do think the definition is a bit vague, I don’t think CoD would be considered an MMO by very many people.

I never played CoD, but as far I know it’s primarly an FPS, obviously that mechanic is something (for now) far from the mmorpg genere, and when I was talking about interaction (I thought it was clear) I meant social interactions on large scale that take place inside the virtual world (not on the forums or on a limited voice chat).
So no, I would not consider CoD an mmorpg.

I’m not ok with the definition of CORPG for the reason I already explained.
Why Vindictus and a lot of games like that are considered mmorpg and not GW1?
Why GW1 devs at some point felt the need to create this new acronym?

Everytime old gw1 players say something that they think was done better in GW1 to suggest how to manage this game, then that term is used to justify that it is not possible because one is a CORPG and the other one is an MMORPG.
Imo all bulkitten.

So you like to mince words except when it doesnt work out for you. By your definition every online fps is an mmo. However it really boils down to persistent vs instansted world. GW1 is mostly a single player game you can accomplish with henchmen/heroes. when you leave a map in gw1, its gone, when you leave a map in gw2 there are still events happening, players exploring etc. gw1 was a great game, but an mmo it was not

Fortus.6175:

Stooperdale.3560:

Quick reminder, you have aegis and protection, thieves don’t.

quick reminder, aegis doesnt block backstab (the more you know!) since it will say “block” followed by the backstab nonetheless

If it says block, thats exactly what it did, and you failed to pay attention enough and realize you were being attacked, stood there and let yourself get hit again.

GanjaFarmer.8769:

Shemsu.8721:

1) question doesnt really make sense, vigorous recovery procs vigor when you use a healing skill, SoM doesnt have anything to do with vigor.

2)healing power will scale up how much you heal with SoM. SoM is NOT life leech, its simply a small healing proc every time you strike a foe (or in some cases like caltrops, apply bleeding)

3)use SoM, Assassins reward, and life leech food, perhaps sigil of blood (i think thats the one) if you need more, but prolly dont need the sigil. Most thieves would advise against p/p in general though, its a terribly confused set with no clear purpose, however, if you enjoy it, there are a few guides in the forum i recall seeing

There is a thief trait called “Vigorous Recovery,” which is gaining vigor when using a healing skill. So if SoM is gaining health on hit, am I gaining vigor on every hit?

“No clear Purpose,’ is nice, gives you the freedom to build in any direction, thats how I see it.

Yes i’m aware of the trait, which is why i explained what it does, it procs vigor when you USE a healing skills, SoM or any signets passive effect is not using a healing skill, hence why its a passive effect. So no, you will not get a 10second vigor every single attack with SoM

As for no clear purpose giving you the freedom to build in any direction, not so much, what it means is that any direction you build in, your still going to be sub-par and ineffective.

Kaon.7192:

Shemsu.8721:

Zumy.6318:

Nobody in the world uses Sick ’em.
Get over it and if applied to you shadow step away. Our ability to disengage whenever we want is too strong and it is a nice debuff to D/P nabs.

I like it.

Think about it for a moment, d/p will be effected the LEAST of all stealth sets. d/d-s/d-p/d all rely on consistent stealth rotations for damage/condi/cc/heals/cleanse they are visible enough to easily target them and force MORE revealed on them. d/p stays in stealth most of a fight and is not targetable, sic em is a target reliant ability. You cant target whats perma-stealthed. This change will further knock down the less viable d/d-p/d-s/d sets and not even touch d/p. This is the wrong change to make if you want to knock perma stealth down a couple pegs. I’m guessing they DONT want to hurt permastealth. Every nerf for the last year has not only left perma stealth alone, but even made it MORE viable, by nerfing every other single set we have

This point is worth repeating.

Perma-Stealth is a broken mechanic that needs to be removed from the game, but implementing Revealed as a counter from other Professions is not the way to accomplish this, and in fact won’t accomplish much at all besides severely limiting the viability of other builds that make use of Stealth as it is intended.

Evilapprentice and I both ended up posting this alternative in different forums:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Modified-Anti-Stealth-Suggestion/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Counter-Invisibility-not-Stealth/first

But as you said, even with something like the above implemented for other classes, regular Thieves who use Stealth sparingly will be disproportionately impacted and Perma-Stealth Thieves would be barely affected at all.

D/P perma-stealth can be easily fixed without impacting other builds by making Infusion of Shadow not able to proc while already Stealthed.

I still firmly believe that once this is implemented, Stealth as a mechanic will be in a good place in terms of balance (asides from the 4s Revealed in sPvP).

I’ve posted that adding a 3-4s icd to infusion of shadow would fix it, but i kinda like your solution too. You are 100% correct, d/p needs to be toned down without further neutering other sets, and that is an excellent way to accomplish it

Jack.3658:

kinda like how hunters can reveal rogues in wow

This isnt wow, I (and i would guess many others) DONT want this to be wow. wow still exists, please feel free to go play wow.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Shemsu.8721:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I’m not doing WvW without ascended weapons/trinkets because I refuse to be at a 15% disadvantage (math in threads on this forum). This also deviates from what was promised.

Lots of people do WvW with upleveled characters. I’m in a similar situation as you (I’m nowhere close to having an ascended weapon) but I do WvW regularly. You can also do PvP if you’re looking for perfectly even fights. Those happen so rarely in WvW that I don’t think you’ll ever really notice stat disparity. Perhaps at some point in the future, there might be content so hard that you’ll almost have to have ascended gear, but I’m not seeing it so far.

Obsession with max gear seems similar to the playstyles you’re condemning.

First, I understand that people do WvW with upleveled characters. The thing is that this has always been possible and people accept that they will be weaker. Because they get stuff out of it and they get to level.

The only reason I’m concerned about max gear is that it will very quickly become necessary if ANet continues on its current path. Wait until you come across someone with full ascended weapons and trinkets, who is doing 15-20% more damage to you. Sounds like it’ll be a fun and fair fight, lol.

Oh wait. WvW will never be balanced so it’s okay to have ascended gear. Carry on.

20% more damage because of +4 power on an ascended item? nope sorry. I’ve 1v1 against multiple characters wielding ascended weapons (i have none) and i will assume if they put in the effort for weapons that they had jewelry as well. Yet i defeated them as easily as I always have. Not to mention you can get ascended weapons IN wvw for FREE without crafting. Its strange how your so obsessed with max gear yet simply expect it to be handed to you (spvp says hi)

Go look at the math posted in this section of the forum. Or not, I don’t care. But don’t misrepresent the power of these items.

Your anecdotal evidence, btw, proves nothing.

And your blatant sense of entitlement proves what? I’ve had no problems in wvw since ascended weapons. Your tearful boycott serves what purpose? You wont play without BiS gear, but you wont do anything to earn it? Good luck with that

Dark Catalyst.1028:

What’s the matter? Not enough grind for you OP?

Have some cheese man, it will go well with your whine

Dark Catalyst.1028:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I’m not doing WvW without ascended weapons/trinkets because I refuse to be at a 15% disadvantage (math in threads on this forum). This also deviates from what was promised.

Lots of people do WvW with upleveled characters. I’m in a similar situation as you (I’m nowhere close to having an ascended weapon) but I do WvW regularly. You can also do PvP if you’re looking for perfectly even fights. Those happen so rarely in WvW that I don’t think you’ll ever really notice stat disparity. Perhaps at some point in the future, there might be content so hard that you’ll almost have to have ascended gear, but I’m not seeing it so far.

Obsession with max gear seems similar to the playstyles you’re condemning.

First, I understand that people do WvW with upleveled characters. The thing is that this has always been possible and people accept that they will be weaker. Because they get stuff out of it and they get to level.

The only reason I’m concerned about max gear is that it will very quickly become necessary if ANet continues on its current path. Wait until you come across someone with full ascended weapons and trinkets, who is doing 15-20% more damage to you. Sounds like it’ll be a fun and fair fight, lol.

Oh wait. WvW will never be balanced so it’s okay to have ascended gear. Carry on.

20% more damage because of +4 power on an ascended item? nope sorry. I’ve 1v1 against multiple characters wielding ascended weapons (i have none) and i will assume if they put in the effort for weapons that they had jewelry as well. Yet i defeated them as easily as I always have. Not to mention you can get ascended weapons IN wvw for FREE without crafting. Its strange how your so obsessed with max gear yet simply expect it to be handed to you (spvp says hi)

1) question doesnt really make sense, vigorous recovery procs vigor when you use a healing skill, SoM doesnt have anything to do with vigor.

2)healing power will scale up how much you heal with SoM. SoM is NOT life leech, its simply a small healing proc every time you strike a foe (or in some cases like caltrops, apply bleeding)

3)use SoM, Assassins reward, and life leech food, perhaps sigil of blood (i think thats the one) if you need more, but prolly dont need the sigil. Most thieves would advise against p/p in general though, its a terribly confused set with no clear purpose, however, if you enjoy it, there are a few guides in the forum i recall seeing

Nuka Cola.8520:

no just delete Orr and add a true lev80 zone… killing risen is as boring as killing dredge, worst enemies in the game and need to gtfo

southsun says hi

Zumy.6318:

Nobody in the world uses Sick ’em.
Get over it and if applied to you shadow step away. Our ability to disengage whenever we want is too strong and it is a nice debuff to D/P nabs.

I like it.

Think about it for a moment, d/p will be effected the LEAST of all stealth sets. d/d-s/d-p/d all rely on consistent stealth rotations for damage/condi/cc/heals/cleanse they are visible enough to easily target them and force MORE revealed on them. d/p stays in stealth most of a fight and is not targetable, sic em is a target reliant ability. You cant target whats perma-stealthed. This change will further knock down the less viable d/d-p/d-s/d sets and not even touch d/p. This is the wrong change to make if you want to knock perma stealth down a couple pegs. I’m guessing they DONT want to hurt permastealth. Every nerf for the last year has not only left perma stealth alone, but even made it MORE viable, by nerfing every other single set we have

Sanduskel.1850:

Shemsu.8721:

Sanduskel.1850:

Okaishi.8320:

Regarding the change to Sic ’em, giving a specific class a counter to stealth is just stupid in my opinion, and I think it’s the wrong kind of counter anyway. For me it would make perfect sense to nerf perma stealth in a different way, perhaps like limiting the amount of times you can stack stealth to 2 or 3 times? I think the main problem with stealthing is how it can be easily abused to stay stealthed for very long periods of time, and this would make doing that impossible.

l2p without perma stealth. some of us thieves can manage without that crutch.

The addition of a noskill one button hard counter to stealth will barely tickle perma-stealth but it will severely hurt all normal thief stealth builds. It’s completely the wrong direction. Add a 3-4 second internal cooldown to infusion of shadow, problem solved.

it’s a good start. I look forward to every class being able to clean out the scrubs who rely on perma stealth. I do just fine without it.. It’s funny how the perma stealthers now come out with all sorts of solutions now. My fellow thieves sometimes annoy me.

That’s a really great counter argument, you bring up some valid points… Ohhh wait you didnt, just more gibberish from a troll

Sanduskel.1850:

i will impact perma stealth. you are incorrect.

Spectacular argument there. It’s a targeted ability. How’s it gonna Target someone staying in stealth? However backstage builds will have at minimum twice the duration between stabs, sword daze builds will have even lower daze uptime. Perma stealth won’t even get targeted

Wanze.8410:

Iplaytokill.1674:

Vol.5241:

You really shouldn’t convert laurels to gold. You can get gold at any rate but laurels are 1 per day and 10 per month.

Unless you spend most of your time in the Mists. Then that becomes the only way.

If you only play spvp, you dont need gold.

And you can still make money on the trading post.

If you only play spvp all you earn is glory and laurels. You can’t sell spvp gear on the tp. Since you claim you don’t need gold I must have missed the patch when they added a way to convert glory/laurels to gems. Ohhhh wait….

Sanduskel.1850:

other thieves manage to do just fine without using perma stealth. learn to do so. too much stealth makes johnny a bad player.

This will not affect perma-stealthers at all. Get your head out your kitten and think. This will hurt short term situational stealth builds, this will hurt offhand dagger. Perma-stealther will be just fine, don’t worry. They are nerfing everything EXCEPT perma-stealther

Sanduskel.1850:

Okaishi.8320:

Regarding the change to Sic ’em, giving a specific class a counter to stealth is just stupid in my opinion, and I think it’s the wrong kind of counter anyway. For me it would make perfect sense to nerf perma stealth in a different way, perhaps like limiting the amount of times you can stack stealth to 2 or 3 times? I think the main problem with stealthing is how it can be easily abused to stay stealthed for very long periods of time, and this would make doing that impossible.

l2p without perma stealth. some of us thieves can manage without that crutch.

The addition of a noskill one button hard counter to stealth will barely tickle perma-stealth but it will severely hurt all normal thief stealth builds. It’s completely the wrong direction. Add a 3-4 second internal cooldown to infusion of shadow, problem solved.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Shemsu.8721:

I can’t wait till I get a skill to disable ele atunement swaps or necro ds.

….
LF gaining skills have to hit… so evade (or… stealth…)
spectral walk/armour only generate LF when hit… so dont attack (stealth and/or go defensive)
dont let anything die near the necro

thats pretty much DS taken care of (outside of signet of undeath, -maybe- tiny bits from reapers precision… already built up life force i see as similar to building up stealth before an encounter)

ofcourse i doubt many people would be able to pull off a 1v1 with a necro whilst preventing them from ever gaining life force; but it is possible

so basically your saying learn how the class and mechanics work and use them to your advantage? Wow what a novel idea, exactly what thieves have been saying for over a year. Yet still they choose to implement one button hard counter to stealth so you don’t have to learn how to fight against stealth from any class, just press your anti stealth button

And yet I see full maps all the time…….

Sanduskel.1850:

people rely too much on perma stealth, and it enrages other players. giving every class a chance to counter it is healthy for the game.

Almost. You see a skill like this hurts normal stealthers WAY more than perma stealth. In fact this won’t even affect perma builds hardly at all. So once again, ppl cry about perma stealth and anet nerfs EVERYTHING else. Great plan. I can’t wait till I get a skill to disable ele atunement swaps or necro ds. Hmm perhaps a skill to disable mesmers from summoning clones. No skill, one button counters are great!

Zacchary.6183:

I think having a “Remove a Condition on Dodge” would be good enough.

^ this. So much this. Acrobatics needs to be more effective. Id like to see assassins reward made useful and some anti-cond

Don’t forget they ‘fixed’ shadowstep pathing a few months back. There was probably a tiny pebble between you and Target. Shadowsteps in general have a much higher fail rate since the fix

Okaishi.8320:

Giving a specific class a counter to stealth is just stupid in my opinion, and I think it’s the wrong kind of counter anyway. For me it would make perfect sense to nerf perma stealth in a different way, perhaps like making it impossible to stack stealth for more than 2 or 3 times?

Fixing d/p perma stealth is so easy, add a 3 second icd to infusion of shadow, problem solved. They aren’t trying to fix permastealth.

nagymbear.5280:

Shemsu.8721:

The issue is not how many rangers will run this, but rather that this is a way to start putting this in the game, which indicates they are going to continue adding such abilities to other classes.

I don’t get what is wrong with giving players a tool against stealth. There are tools against stuns, conditions even boons. I really don’t see how this will result in less interesting, more boring fights. I remember J. Sharp talking about active condi removal regarding rangers. He said he’d like to see more active play, where you try to force your opponent to use his cleansing, sort of a mind game. Thieves will still have evades, dodges, blinds, teleports to defend themselves for 3-4 seconds, and sic’em is on a 40s cooldown untraited, so I don’t see the problem here.

Because It’s not a mindgame, It’s rock/paper/scissors, It’s boring. Stealth is not a boon or condition, it should not be treated as such. Also the duration of sic em is 10 seconds not 3-4.. big difference. This is no different than adding a skill which prevents clone summoning, atunement swap, etc. It relates an exclusive class mechanic and an entire traitline. It’s a bad direction to take development. It’s not counterplay It’s I win against stealth. There should be no anti class abilities like that ever

The issue is not how many rangers will run this, but rather that this is a way to start putting this in the game, which indicates they are going to continue adding such abilities to other classes. what happens when warriors get a banner that auto-reveals people within its radius, or mesmers get a trait that attaches revealed to glamour aoe’s etc etc.

And for the record Sanduskel, how is it ok for you to insult and ridicule everyone that disagrees with you then say there is no need for personal attacks. Also this change wont affect me personally, i run either s/p-sb or s/d-sb. I debate against changes like this because they are bad design principle, as it continues it leads to bad, boring gameplay.

So rangers get an I win button against stealth builds, so maybe we should give necro’s an I win skill against evasion builds. Guardians get a skill that disables deathshroud, etc etc. I dont need a computer or the internet to play rock/paper/scissors

Sanduskel.1850:

decent thieves will just laugh this off. noobs will have to l2p or leave.

Too bad we can’t get a change to make the trolls leave. You wouldn’t be missed

Every patch there is a nerf to thieves. As for the best build for a thief in wvw, d/p is still the most popular i guess. But if you actually want to have fun and be effective, just roll a warrior or guardian and get buffed every patch instead of nerfed

Sanduskel.1850:

tigirius.9014:

Completely agree with you there. If we are going to lose stealth where is the compensation of all of the things this class lacks?

Shemsu.8721:

McWolfy.5924:

Andrew.6487:

doesn’t need stealth ? are u joke ? how u defeat a engi/necro/war without stealth ? if u can it just because they are nooooooooooooooooooooooooobs . what’s your pvp rank ? if not above 45 , u can’t talking about fighting , and the most important is , there is no 1 v 1 fighting in wvw , how can u escape without stealth?

as any other profession. i think put stealth in this game was a bug mistake. ranger sword is a playstyle what i can immagine to a thief. more agility and less stealth and blind to the thieves. (and mesmers)

As any other profession? so thieves should get access to multiple invulnerability mechanics, access to blocking skills, higher base hp, much much greater boon access, access to protection, access to stability? all the things thieves lack and give up for 3 seconds of stealth

I don’t feel like I lack anything on my thief. I can heal quickly via stealth. I have the best mobility, and I have the best burst. Those who disagree rely on permastealth too much.

Literally everything you mention is connected to stealth. Which is disabled via revealed. So with classes given ways to apply revealed like a condition, you would lack all those things.

McWolfy.5924:

Andrew.6487:

doesn’t need stealth ? are u joke ? how u defeat a engi/necro/war without stealth ? if u can it just because they are nooooooooooooooooooooooooobs . what’s your pvp rank ? if not above 45 , u can’t talking about fighting , and the most important is , there is no 1 v 1 fighting in wvw , how can u escape without stealth?

as any other profession. i think put stealth in this game was a bug mistake. ranger sword is a playstyle what i can immagine to a thief. more agility and less stealth and blind to the thieves. (and mesmers)

As any other profession? so thieves should get access to multiple invulnerability mechanics, access to blocking skills, higher base hp, much much greater boon access, access to protection, access to stability? all the things thieves lack and give up for 3 seconds of stealth

I’d love an invite