Guild Wars 2

Siva Mira.3546:

Did people just misunderstand about stun-break and non-activation skill?

Even if they remove stun-break from IS/SR you will still able to use SR when you are stunned. The only different is that you will stay stun for its duration but your body will still return to the original place.

Did you misunderstand the horrible pathing changes made recently? that cause sr to NOT move you anywhere at all.

kittennit.7648:

Shemsu.8721:

kittennit.7648:

Shemsu.8721:

kittennit.7648:

Travlane.5948:

kittennit.7648:

dont really get all the complaints about S/D. I play S/D mainly and yes it’s a nerf but it’s not as bad as people make it out to be.

Stuns in this game are all quite short in duration, so even if it isnt a stunbreaker anymore it doesnt man we will be dead once the first stun hits us. Immobilize is much much stronger than stuns (imo) and infil strike still takes care of that just fine. We also still have Shadowstep / Roll for Ini / Infil Signet, etc.

Also, 2 Ini on Flanking Strike: Good change. The Skill is still really really good but this prevents all the noobs spamming spamming without properly managing their Inititative. I’ve encountered so many S/D thiefs going 333333 and it was just too rewarding for pressing one button over and over. (Btw you will still be able to spam it just fine if you spec very high into Ini regen -> jumpers build)

Anyway, i cant wait to try Shadow Trap, it sounds really good. I also like that they are buffing Dancing Dagger because thats the only skill i dont use frequently on S/D (i dont use it at all) but the ini reduced to 3 isn’t helping it at all. Infil Strike is still superior, so no point in using it.

d/d BV gonna sneak up and own your kitten now u have 0 chance hope ur quick with that SS or they gonan 2 hit u

Where’s the diff between popping roll for ini and shadow return?

I’m gonna respond to both of Shiz’s posts here, I’ve been a die hard sword thief since beta. You claim to play s/d but cant see the ramifications of these, lets call them possible changes. First off, by choosing sword over dagger, your sacrificing damage for mobility and survival. You can gain that survival either through shadow arts (which fits d/p much better than s/d) or through copious amounts of mobility and select condi.

Sword shadow return was a main aspect of that mobility and the weakness on auto provided a decent amount of indirect damage mitigation, something thieves in general lack. with both of these items removed, s/d mobile builds and s/p are hurt drastically. Now you could play s/d daze build and go for shadow arts instead, but this build has already been destroyed in spvp and was never that great in pve/wvw anyhow.

As to your final question, whats the difference in popping sr and roll for ini? Well for one, you have to waste a utility slot on rfi, sr is from a weaponskill. Secondly if your depending on rfi as your stun break, every single class will be able to recharge there cc and burst BEFORE the cd on rfi expires.

Sword main hand still has much much better mobility than Dagger main hand so…

You’re talking like Shadow return got patched out of the game. You realize that it still works the same way it did before? The only difference is that you cannot break stun with it anymore… yes it’s a nerf but its not nerfing he skill from “very very very good” to “useless” so yea…

Also: RFI was an exmaple, can also insert Shadowstep / Infil signet

Well I never said it was totally useless, i’m sure it’ll still work fine in pve where AI is unable to take advantage of you. In tpvp and wvw however? I still wont say completely useless, but no longer good enough to sacrifice daggers damage and stealth access, since you can gain the same amount of survive from shadow arts, you can even run dagger evade builds with acrobatics.

Also you cant point out shadowstep and infil signet as better than rfi for avoid cc burst combo’s. shadowstep cd is barely lower rfi, so the same applies. and infil signet, in spvp at least, you wont have another target available much of the time, so its not really avoiding burst if you shadowstep directly to your enemy..

Dude, i’m not saying that the skill didnt get nerfed it did. I’m just saying that it’s not breaking the weapon set atleast thats my feeling towards it right now, we will know for sure once the patch goes live.

Just for your information, i dont play PvE much i play almost exclusively WvW and sPvP / tPvP

And i’m not saying its completely broken like i said, sword will still work in pve, and in hotjoin pvp you can run with one weapon and no traits and still kill bads with anything. but tpvp and to be an effective roamer in wvw, a stealthless build gives up ALOT to roam in wvw, sword had the tools to compensate, the recent changes and this and i no longer think it will. As you say though, time will tell, I hope these are fake personally.

Side Note: if they are not fake, can you imagine the river of tears that will be in this forums once people realize that uber op backstab instagib combo can now be 1500 range?

God Of Fissures.8627:

The shadowstepping in this game is done based on pathing. If the area you are attempting to shadowstep to is able to be walked to via a path from your current position, the shadowstep succeeds.

If there is no pathing in the area OR the place you are attempting to shadowstep to cannot be reached by directly walking there, the shadowstep fails.

OR if there is a pebble somewhere on the group to small to see, the shadowstep fails. OR if there is a 1 degree imperceptible slope to the ground, the shadowstep fails. I dont know what blue sky world you live in, but i’d love it if shadowstep actually works like that

kittennit.7648:

Shemsu.8721:

kittennit.7648:

Travlane.5948:

kittennit.7648:

dont really get all the complaints about S/D. I play S/D mainly and yes it’s a nerf but it’s not as bad as people make it out to be.

Stuns in this game are all quite short in duration, so even if it isnt a stunbreaker anymore it doesnt man we will be dead once the first stun hits us. Immobilize is much much stronger than stuns (imo) and infil strike still takes care of that just fine. We also still have Shadowstep / Roll for Ini / Infil Signet, etc.

Also, 2 Ini on Flanking Strike: Good change. The Skill is still really really good but this prevents all the noobs spamming spamming without properly managing their Inititative. I’ve encountered so many S/D thiefs going 333333 and it was just too rewarding for pressing one button over and over. (Btw you will still be able to spam it just fine if you spec very high into Ini regen -> jumpers build)

Anyway, i cant wait to try Shadow Trap, it sounds really good. I also like that they are buffing Dancing Dagger because thats the only skill i dont use frequently on S/D (i dont use it at all) but the ini reduced to 3 isn’t helping it at all. Infil Strike is still superior, so no point in using it.

d/d BV gonna sneak up and own your kitten now u have 0 chance hope ur quick with that SS or they gonan 2 hit u

Where’s the diff between popping roll for ini and shadow return?

I’m gonna respond to both of Shiz’s posts here, I’ve been a die hard sword thief since beta. You claim to play s/d but cant see the ramifications of these, lets call them possible changes. First off, by choosing sword over dagger, your sacrificing damage for mobility and survival. You can gain that survival either through shadow arts (which fits d/p much better than s/d) or through copious amounts of mobility and select condi.

Sword shadow return was a main aspect of that mobility and the weakness on auto provided a decent amount of indirect damage mitigation, something thieves in general lack. with both of these items removed, s/d mobile builds and s/p are hurt drastically. Now you could play s/d daze build and go for shadow arts instead, but this build has already been destroyed in spvp and was never that great in pve/wvw anyhow.

As to your final question, whats the difference in popping sr and roll for ini? Well for one, you have to waste a utility slot on rfi, sr is from a weaponskill. Secondly if your depending on rfi as your stun break, every single class will be able to recharge there cc and burst BEFORE the cd on rfi expires.

Sword main hand still has much much better mobility than Dagger main hand so…

You’re talking like Shadow return got patched out of the game. You realize that it still works the same way it did before? The only difference is that you cannot break stun with it anymore… yes it’s a nerf but its not nerfing he skill from “very very very good” to “useless” so yea…

Also: RFI was an exmaple, can also insert Shadowstep / Infil signet

Well I never said it was totally useless, i’m sure it’ll still work fine in pve where AI is unable to take advantage of you. In tpvp and wvw however? I still wont say completely useless, but no longer good enough to sacrifice daggers damage and stealth access, since you can gain the same amount of survive from shadow arts, you can even run dagger evade builds with acrobatics.

Also you cant point out shadowstep and infil signet as better than rfi for avoid cc burst combo’s. shadowstep cd is barely lower rfi, so the same applies. and infil signet, in spvp at least, you wont have another target available much of the time, so its not really avoiding burst if you shadowstep directly to your enemy..

kittennit.7648:

Travlane.5948:

kittennit.7648:

dont really get all the complaints about S/D. I play S/D mainly and yes it’s a nerf but it’s not as bad as people make it out to be.

Stuns in this game are all quite short in duration, so even if it isnt a stunbreaker anymore it doesnt man we will be dead once the first stun hits us. Immobilize is much much stronger than stuns (imo) and infil strike still takes care of that just fine. We also still have Shadowstep / Roll for Ini / Infil Signet, etc.

Also, 2 Ini on Flanking Strike: Good change. The Skill is still really really good but this prevents all the noobs spamming spamming without properly managing their Inititative. I’ve encountered so many S/D thiefs going 333333 and it was just too rewarding for pressing one button over and over. (Btw you will still be able to spam it just fine if you spec very high into Ini regen -> jumpers build)

Anyway, i cant wait to try Shadow Trap, it sounds really good. I also like that they are buffing Dancing Dagger because thats the only skill i dont use frequently on S/D (i dont use it at all) but the ini reduced to 3 isn’t helping it at all. Infil Strike is still superior, so no point in using it.

d/d BV gonna sneak up and own your kitten now u have 0 chance hope ur quick with that SS or they gonan 2 hit u

Where’s the diff between popping roll for ini and shadow return?

I’m gonna respond to both of Shiz’s posts here, I’ve been a die hard sword thief since beta. You claim to play s/d but cant see the ramifications of these, lets call them possible changes. First off, by choosing sword over dagger, your sacrificing damage for mobility and survival. You can gain that survival either through shadow arts (which fits d/p much better than s/d) or through copious amounts of mobility and select condi.

Sword shadow return was a main aspect of that mobility and the weakness on auto provided a decent amount of indirect damage mitigation, something thieves in general lack. with both of these items removed, s/d mobile builds and s/p are hurt drastically. Now you could play s/d daze build and go for shadow arts instead, but this build has already been destroyed in spvp and was never that great in pve/wvw anyhow.

As to your final question, whats the difference in popping sr and roll for ini? Well for one, you have to waste a utility slot on rfi, sr is from a weaponskill. Secondly if your depending on rfi as your stun break, every single class will be able to recharge there cc and burst BEFORE the cd on rfi expires.

Nike.2631:

…And some of us playing thieves that are serviceable but not flavor-of-the-month-bandwagon builds are quite pleased by the wall-to-wall 100% buffs we’ll be getting if those patch notes are correct.

My Ranger will get tweaked a little in response to the changes, but my pets (Fernhound, Hyena) were there for regen and pounce much more than for damage output.

In fact with my having 80th level characters for 7 out of 8 classes, the notes look like an absolute smorgasbord of potential for finding new or reviving old builds that can now compete on a more even footing with the 5-6 overpowered freaks that people try to use as the baseline for “viability”.

non flavor of the month? you just picked the wrong month, You unicorn build isnt special just because it isnt currently meta anymore. as far as wall to wall 100% buffs, tell me how sword/pistol having its most useful condition on auto being REMOVED, its most viable stunbreaker being REMOVED would be wall to wall buffs?

I wonder if the same people in this thread cheering thief nerfs realize that this would be another patch buffing dagger and nerf stomping sword. Those the same people that complain about backstab builds that every thief is being forced into?

Darek.1836:

Auesis.7301:

Darek.1836:

Auesis.7301:

AlBundy.7851:

Is this going to be a trend every patch thieves get a new mechanic?

So you ignored that Mesmers and Necros are getting the mechanic too, and the blog post emphasised the Necro side of it. Gotcha.

necros needed a new condition (WHICH BTW IS NOT TORMENT), mesmers dont have a good condi build, but oh thieves on the other hand..

“In looking to expand the condition diversity of thieves and mesmers, we decided to include Torment skills for those two professions as well.”

AS WELL. Simple reading comprehension.

Tell me where necromancer was mentioned in the entire paragraph for Torment. The condition they’re getting is Tainted Shackles. Simple reading comprehension.

Gotta love this. pay more attention buddy, tainted shackles is the name of the skill necros are getting for DS #5, torment is the name of the condition it causes. Simple reading comprehension huh? guess you lack it…..

grave of hearts.7830:

Esprit Dumort.3109:

Why are you complaining about a Stomp than can be interrupted compared to Mist Form and Distortion stomps? Doesn’t matter what you do, you’re not gonna stop of Mist Form or Distortion Stomp. I am not certain, but Stability Stomps can be stopped with Blind.

Stealth Stomps seem more unfair to the downed player b/c you can’t trigger your interrupt on something you can’t see, but you can see Eles and Mesmers. So unless you have a teleport ‘interrupt’ it won’t matter.

If your teammates see a thief stealth near a downed player, chances are they are stomping and you should use an interrupt. Mesmers with GS#5, Focus#4, possibly Staff#5 if you are lucky, Necro’s Staff#5, Elementalist Staff #3, etc… Thieves could argue that they don’t their ‘invinci-stomps’ are weak because the lack of easy stability or invulnerable skills.

Nothing will stop Mist Form and Distortion stomps if timed properly. Stealth stomps on the other hand are easily interrupted if your teammates are paying attention.

Small problem there mist form and distortion stomps have a long cooldown and most likely they will be used once in a fight.
Stability can be stripped or turned into fear.
A thief on the other hand will go around trololololstealthstomping,giving an unfair advantage to his side out of the ammount of rallies .
I fought a thief on equal footing and i saw how stealth really works,its flipping the odds too much on the thieves favor.
This multiplies tenfold when you hit the ground and you have only a targeted fear,and a long recharge aoe that is also targetted.
And to add insult to injury,when you cant do anything while the thief is stealthed you get quickstomped.
Explain to me now in extreme detail so i can understand your thought pattern,how does this looks fair and fun to you.
And while you are at it also explain to me why they removed Deathshroud stomping and left thieves rampant to abuse theyr class mechanic to stomp others while all the other classes cant combo theyr mechanic with stomping.
Because for me this looks like class favoritism.

Mist form/distortion/invuln/stability etc have cooldowns because they are much much more powerful stomping methods, hence stealth, the weaker form of stomping, is more available. however it should it be pointed out stealth utilities DO have cooldowns. so your point is twice invalid, initiative is a global weapon cooldown mechanic, all utilities have normal cds.

I missed the update where all classes could strip stability and corrupt boons, mind sharing a link to those abilities for each class, especially each classes down states

You finish up asking why thieves can use their class mechanic to stomp. Steal is a thief class mechanic not stealth. Mesmers can stealth stomp as can Engi’s. In addition mesmers can use their class mechanic for a distortion stomp which is way way stronger than a stealth stomp. Not to mention guardians using virtues for aegis stomp, a warrior who doesnt need to stomp and could just burst kill you instantly.

As a final note, I love the part where you fought a thief once and somehow transcended space/time to gain a perfect understanding of another classes mechanics without playing as one. Some talent you have.

Excalibur.9748:

Generally more reliable to use it right after a bacwards roll. That just about guarantees it will actually work.

So basically what your saying is that in order to use a weapon skill designed to be an extra evade and save endurance, you have to dodge back first and waste endurance so that the skill works correctly?

Thats been happening all the time since launch, it is not related to any form of CC you can get it to happen when not even in combakittens getting stuck on terrain, just like withdraw and roll for ini do (though for some reason not as often) and like shadowsteps do

ekimsfree.9406:

Seriously, if you require a skill that teleported infinite range then you may be the thing that lacks skill.

The only thing thats required is a reading lesson for you. the thread has nothing to do with range, make all shadowsteps infinite range, and they remain useless when they FAIL to move you at all. Pay attention

eldain stenlund.4306:

Evilek.5690:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Evilek.5690:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Daecollo.9578:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Zacchary.6183:

There is counter to 12-28k backstabs…. called moving.

you have to see the thief first…
And you have to hope they dont have their shadowstep…

And you think its fair to have what you say… 28 k invisible stab openings ???

Thief wouldn’t waste there escape tool to attack you.

The damage is only 814, that isn’t very much if you stack a lot of toughness.

If you never want to be 1 shot by anything, get runes of the svanir+become invincible at 25% life.

if you really hate thieves, play guardian and faceroll protection, damage reduction.

and your on with this thoughness again…

it doesnt help.. i have already tried that.. and other people have had even more thoughness and vitality than me.. and still died in seconds.

Either thieves have a bug on their stab skill, bypassing armors.
or
Armors have a very early and very strong diminishing return.
Wich makes you think that 3.5 k armor sounds alot, but might in reality be worth schit.

or it could be both…

or maybe iam just very very unlucky to face very lucky high critting thieves ??
(strange tho since other also report the same thing as i do)…

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
Enemy 2000 Power weapon damage 1010 skill coe 1.
2000×1010×1=2020000/your armor
Your armor x Enemy dmg
1000 × 2020
1200 × 1683
1400 × 1442
1600 × 1262
1800 × 1122
2000 × 1010
2200 × 918
Armor=Power when the weapon skill coefficient is “1”.
When someone attack you with 2,000 power and your armor is 2,000, => enemy power is 0

Toughness is very powerfull atribut.
Vit+Toughness > power,crit dmg

I usualy have 2.5 k armor.
And iam using the heavy armor since iam a warrior.

Thieves can have more than me…

Logic just got lost…

Me Thief 2650 armor,you have 2500 with heavy armor = you are glass cannon,this is only your fail

I should naturaly have higher armor no matter how you gear…
I have heavy metal. you have light leather.
you shouldnt even come close to begin with.

But in GW2. thieves have more armor that warriors or guardians…
the stupidity of these designers is awesome.

Welcome to a fantasy world, attached are the front and back of one of your ‘heavy metal’ armor sets. I see no shortage of places to put a dagger

eldain stenlund.4306:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backstab

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Triple_Chop

Okay click the links, look at the base damages, which one is higher? Now think about it a moment, which one is a spammable autoattack? and which one requires stealth (either another attack like cnd, or multiple attacks bps+hs) or a long cd utillity, AND requires position behind an enemy.

Have you see the other tread you have in your own forum…
About the dmg a thief can do ??
There are vids and pictures.. clearly showing how stupidly op the dmg is.
people bragging how they have done 18 k.. 19 k.. a rumor of even 35 k.
tho i belive the 35 k is under maximum debuffs and buffs effect.

Thats from 1 attack… from stealth… wich you can not see.
thieves clearly doesnt need a nerf…

The second best part: its a thief that have made it…

THE best part. A-net is ignoring it… and probably instead have more buffs incoming as usual…

A-net is close to become like Age of Conan.
Imbalanced as hell, and forcing people leave.

I’ve seen 29k killshots that hit downed 5 people at 1500 range. at least backstab requires melee range, requires stealth, and requires position behind enemy. What do you need for killshot, one of multiple skills that instantly gives you full adrenaline, and sit safe on top of keep walls downing 5 people with a single button.

Everything has its ups and downs, looking at that I could say killshot is even more OP than thief backstab. The truth is that neither is. Killshot has its balances and drawbacks, and isnt even a warriors strongest attack, as noted axe auto does more than killshot and backstab.

So again, you can look at that backstab thread all you want, I’m sure you could take a warrior and do 500k damage to a bunny, does that make warrior OP? no? Neither does a thread full of setup pics on undergear/underleveled wvw players

eldain stenlund.4306:

ok… fun tread.. and just shows what i have in another…

Thieves need a massive nerf..
Or armors need a very big buff in natural resists.

and also explains why i died on my warrior before i even saw what happened.
“iam running in wvw… i see my ppl on map at a tower, i run towards it…
2 – 3 seconds later…iam watching wich respawn point i want”…

Great.. i just got 3 hitted by a thief…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defy_Pain_

There ya go, take the QQ whining elsewhere now

eldain stenlund.4306:

Ghostwolf.9863:

I was on my bunker thief once, 19k hp, I had stunbreaker on cooldown.
Then suddenly I hear the warrior charge sound behind me, I get knocked down,
the warrior pressed 1 button (hundred blades) and I died, wtf???

Warrior damage really??? with those knockdowns -_____________-

Could happen to someone finishing off a mesmer too if he ignores the warrior.

yes, its very fair and makes total sense…
comparing our internal 40 second cooldown we have on frenzy + 40 second cd bullcharge… against… something a thief can spam…

yep, you are clearly right.. thieves need much more dmg to compensate.
and warriors need to run around naked… and forbid GS + bullcharge in combination.

Dont you see that something is realy very totaly wrong with how A-net balancing things ?
I dont like 100crap either, i think its a bullkitten skill.
Stationary crap in a constantly shifting surrounding. doesnt make any sense realy.

and no, i dont want it mobile and still have the dmg it does.
i dont want the skill at all. (why i never use GS anymore).

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backstab

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Triple_Chop

Okay click the links, look at the base damages, which one is higher? Now think about it a moment, which one is a spammable autoattack? and which one requires stealth (either another attack like cnd, or multiple attacks bps+hs) or a long cd utillity, AND requires position behind an enemy.

Ren,
There is another thread, I’ll have to look for it, where that exact test was done multiple times, and it seems to show that + duration and – duration cancel each other out. As in the – duration affects the base duration only, so as long as you have good condition duration bonus or good stun duration bonus, the negative duration items cant totally eliminate your condi/stuns. (As in the warrior/ele trait + melandru + lemongrass= 96% reduction to chill/cripple/immob)

I thought it was common knowledge that fear counts as a stun and condition. It even says that on the wiki. I wouldnt count on mesmer runes or sigil of para working though. Take basilisk venom as example. supposed to turn you to stone, but it was changed to be able to stun broke out of, making it a stun, but it is not affected by + stun duration, despite being affected by stun breakers. Wouldnt surprise me if fear was in the same spot, all the negatives of being a stun, none of the positives

Blankverse.4927:

Zacchary.6183:

You know, we tried telling everyone how to kill us multiple times. The only thing that ever came out of it was spam and flame.

Maybe because many of those hot tips and recipes “how to kill a thief” are often pure theory and don’t work so well in combat? Ever considered that?

When i roam i meet different players. From newbie Invaders to Bronze xyz.

I noticed that many players expect backstabs when they see a thief. And – yes, they do their best to avoid backstabs. But as i said, i use pistols. So all i have to do is: pop up -> sneak attack ->unload ->black powder -> autoattack ->stealth ->repeat.
I don’t even try to come closer and land a backstab and the player i fight with CAN NOT forsee where i will pop up next (with almost full hp and ini).
This method doesn’t work against very tanky builds and most guardians but i can honestly say (don’t get me wrong, i’m not trying to brag, it’s a fact): only one (1!) ranger from maybe 20-30 was able to kill me.
Is it so because i am a batter player? Hell, no.
Is it so because i use some kind of clever tactic? No.
Is it so because i have access to stealth? Yes.

Wow that sounds amazing. I bet I could learn alot from you. Please post a video of your OP stealth p/p thief carrying a team in high ranked Tpvp. I would love to see that

I find it amusing that people think its about getting the achievement. Recall that even a losing team gets a piece of candy….. so if you just akitten all day when not playing, free candy to sell or use for wings

I agree 100%, the gw2 community as a whole needs someone like Day9, to foster peoples willingness to learn and grow. Look how strong the starcraft community is (not saying its only a result of Day9, but that guy has alot of influence and one the best attitudes towards competition i’ve ever seen) And starcraft is full of cheese strats yet people learn to counter them and improve themselves instead of endless crying

Wow, splitting hairs much? Well if you want to continue down this course fine. Then to your list of specific cc, the best counter would be stability, which thief has the LEAST access to of all classes.

Its so dark in the forums these days, we need dawn to come and turn all these trolls to stone

More like calling a troll a troll. Sorry Ren, dont get your hopes up on him learning anything, it apparently requires much less effort to cry and troll than it does to improve ones knowledge and abillity. And we can clearly see which path Burnfall takes

The previous point was that the op required 3 heartseekers to gain the full duration, in REAL combat the second or third heartseeker can be body blocked, causing loss of stealth and reveal. end of perma stealth.

However, yes with a terrible and useless trait setup, a thief can sit in the corner of a map away from all mobs and players and stay invisible forever while be completely useless.

Also keep in mind, a thief in stealth cannot capture points in s/tpvp or wvwvw. a perma stealth thief literally does nothing except reveal his position every 8 seconds with blackpowder, shadow refuge, or smokescreen (protip, drop all your aoe there)

Terkov, you are misinformed. If you hit a thief in stealth there are MULTIPLE ways to know you hit him, AA chains will continue, crit procs can go off, heal on hit procs can go off, life leeches can go off, and lets not forget the most obvious… The combat log will SHOW you the damage. knowledge is power. l2p.

sorrow.2364:

Shemsu.8721:

warrior
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March
33% added cc reduction

Elementalist
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Geomancer%27s_Freedom
33% added cc reduction

Both of these traits combine with melandru and lemongrass, no other classes can achieve this total cc reduction. Knowledge is power, pay attention more before you whine

What do you exactly mean with CC?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Control_effect
I think you don’t even know what the acronym stands for.

BTW I’m still waiting for someone making a screenshot of him dealing 6k damage with any of the Necro skills with any build in the same time window.

What do i mean with control? lets look at the gw2 wiki shall we
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Control

The first three condi’s listed under control are cripple, chilled immobilize, which oddly enough is exactly what the traits i linked effect. Crazy huh?

sorrow.2364:

Shemsu.8721:

Warrior or ele traited for cc reduction, plus melandru runes and lemongrass. -96% cc reduction, no need for anti cc when immune

Which trait exactly gives CC reduction?
As far I remember, thieves are able to run Melandru runes and lemongrass too.

Zumy.6318:

How much Time does it take a warrior, Glass Guardian, shatter Mesmer or an actually good necro to deal it. Wanting to deal that damage in your condinecro shows your knowlegde about your build and its role.

Skillless random casual that comes here to rant in every thread.

Yeah, roll a Necro and try to deal 6k damage with a single hit in PvP on a 2.6k armor character. Please, do that and make a screenshot.

warrior
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March
33% added cc reduction

Elementalist
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Geomancer%27s_Freedom
33% added cc reduction

Both of these traits combine with melandru and lemongrass, no other classes can achieve this total cc reduction. Knowledge is power, pay attention more before you whine

sorrow.2364:

@azraeel:
1. Steal and IR works as half cc breaker with any cc which doesn’t put your skills on recharge. If you ran out of initiative and you have your shadowstep on recharge, then it’s your fault. Most profession in this game have half the cc hate the thief has. Only mesmer has about the same anti-cc capability, but we all know how mesmers need to be seriously looked at.

2. Aren’t all thieves running the build I’m talking about?

3. You dont necessarely need to dodge. You just have to move away after you stealthed. You might want to dodge away if your enemy is that to insantly use his AoE cc after unstealthed or you are being focused hard. In both cases, it is a well spent dodge, because you succeded to disengage an unfavourable situation.

4. The only things I’ve said to be too strong lately are the ridiculous amounts of dodges some builds have and the spammability of FS. I love how you change the subject of the argument.
This kitten started because I’ve said that thieves aren’t susceptible to cc as much as any other profession is. In fact they have one of the best, if not the best, anti-cc capability in the game.
Do you disagree about what I’ve said? No? Then we have nothng to argue about.

Warrior or ele traited for cc reduction, plus melandru runes and lemongrass. -96% cc reduction, no need for anti cc when immune

Velron.3729:

That’s fine, I don’t really spam. But I don’t play D/D or D/P.

This has nothing to do with being able to just spam your powerful ability until it lands with no regards to if the opponent is blocking, has aegis, is invuln, is dodging, etc…it rewards a low skill level of play. Anet said they want an esport – this crap has no place in an esport.

It would be different if they added an initiative cost to the stealth attack ability, so spamming it at least cost you initiative.

So long as they add that amount to base init and/or lower the cost of every other weapon skill on all sets. that would be fine then

stealth attack is not comparable to normal skill use. its apples and oranges. this has been discussed to death already, and it hasnt changed. Warriors use a burst skill and miss they keep the adrenaline, can swap weapons and use another burst skill instantly. Thieves miss a stealth attack, they are not revealed, and can attempt to stealth attack again. this is how it works.

Atherakhia.4086:

Shemsu.8721:

Atherakhia.4086:

It’s not a nerf, it’s a bug fix. It wasn’t meant to change elevation and avoid obstacles.

Now that said, I would argue that all of the shortbow’s skills should be 1200 so the effective range of 5 in particular wasn’t awful.

Can you link the dev post that says teleports arent meant to change elevation or avoid obstacles? (portal says hi)

And every other skill other than Mesmer portal says hi back…

So either portal is bugged, or all other ports are. Still not seeing a dev post saying teleport should be restricted against elevation and obstacles

Atherakhia.4086:

It’s not a nerf, it’s a bug fix. It wasn’t meant to change elevation and avoid obstacles.

Now that said, I would argue that all of the shortbow’s skills should be 1200 so the effective range of 5 in particular wasn’t awful.

Can you link the dev post that says teleports arent meant to change elevation or avoid obstacles? (portal says hi)

Excalibur.9748:

Jinks.2057:

D/P users who are good use abilities 1-5.
S/D use 1, 2, 3, 5
D/D use 1, 2, 5
P/D use 1 5
P/P use 3

The best weapon sets are known by all and just happen to be the most polished

Food for thought

4 on x/D is actually really good…it’s just that you only want to use it for cripple.

Nothing wrong with a ranged spammable cripple.

Except the high initiative cost and terrible damage. Better off to use sword 2 or dagger 2 to stay on a target. Only use for dancing dagger is to apply basi venom from range if you need to with a melee set

Elthurien.8356:

Shemsu.8721:

In reply to Elthurien

Dont get hung up on the name, it gets annoying when people want to kitten a class because of a name change. The original Dungeons and Dragons class was called thief, not rogue, but had the same skills. Its a name.

By your definition engineers shouldnt even be in game, engineers design things, so shouldnt they be off creating tech for actual soldiers to use. Engineers dont know how to fight.

If I am sold a pizza and open the box to find a hamburger it still doesn’t make it a pizza, it’s just a hamburger in a pizza box. I was sold a game with a profession called thief, I created a thief and discovered it was an Assassin, not a Thief.

An engineer can mean a great many things IRL, I held the title of field engineer for quite a few years and never designed a thing. I did learn how to shoot assault rifles and fix equipment while I was a field engineer though.

I guess we will have to disagree, i think you are overly hung up on a name. And your example is flawed, the class is called thief, thieves steal things, press F1, you just stole something, now your a thief.
I guess in the end how you define thief is as irrelevant as how i define engineer. All that matters is how Anet defines thief. And from the description of the class, its a pretty solid fit I think

Zacchary.6183:

Shemsu.8721:

In reply to Elthurien

Dont get hung up on the name, it gets annoying when people want to kitten a class because of a name change. The original Dungeons and Dragons class was called thief, not rogue, but had the same skills. Its a name.

By your definition engineers shouldnt even be in game, engineers design things, so shouldnt they be off creating tech for actual soldiers to use. Engineers dont know how to fight.

Engineers also use the equipment they work on or build. They also know how to boop someone on the head with a wrench.

Really? so the guys that design missile systems and tanks are the same guys that operate them in the field? I’m fairly certain those are used by actual soldiers

There is plenty of room to advance thieves magic like abilities, shadow type magic if you will. Without stepping on mesmers clones/confusion at all. All sorts of different shadow hexes, Tulisin pointed out a few interesting ideas as well. a focus offhand would fit thief pretty well IMO. And i’m all for rifle simply because predator is one of the best legendary weapons, and i’d like to have a serious legendary instead of my little pony bow and carebear pistol

In reply to Elthurien

Dont get hung up on the name, it gets annoying when people want to kitten a class because of a name change. The original Dungeons and Dragons class was called thief, not rogue, but had the same skills. Its a name.

By your definition engineers shouldnt even be in game, engineers design things, so shouldnt they be off creating tech for actual soldiers to use. Engineers dont know how to fight.

Comparing thief stealth in a fantasy game to ninja/samurai interaction is absolutely silly.

Why not compare it to something remotely similar, how about Dungeons and Dragons rules
Rogue class has sneak attack, deals considerable extra damage from side/back has hide in shadows trait, to make enemies lose track of them IN COMBAT. Can gain assassin prestige class with access to invisibility spells to use IN COMBAT.

Sounds alot like GW2 thief to me, except we require stealth for backstab, but i’d happily have backstab like damage added to every weapon attack (from all weapons) from side or back

The idea of no combat stealth, completely destroys shadow arts as a trait line, and makes stealth attacks absolutely worthless, unless you buff them to a literal instant kill which would be silly. Your idea of how stealth should work is shallow and dull, and has been done before in other games, why not go play those

Fenrir.5493:

Shemsu.8721:

Fenrir.5493:

This is not the way to solve the problem, to solve this problem there are things that are needed:

-Thieves cant enter stealth while in combat unless using special utility skills with high CD

-Abilities that let you enter stealth while in combat, like cloak and dagger should let you enter stealth without the need to hit anyone

-Stealth has a longer CD

-All kind of damage and blocks should reveal the thief

-Reduce draastically the burst damage of abilities like backstab, its not balaced to practically OHKO someone from stealth, its OP.

And this will balance the things, and now the thieves are fixed.

You do realize that warriors axe autoattack does MORE damage than backstab right?? Every class has a number of skills that do more damage than thieves, doesnt require stealth, doesnt require position behind enemy. You need to be more informed how things work before making suggestions as silly as this

False, i have a thief and a warrior, and axe auto attack its not even close to what you can burst with a single skill in 1 second.

Axe auto attack its divided in 3 attacks and even if you add the damage together the damage its not even close to a 1 backstab, that is why the thives can One hit KO someone from stealth and its not balanced.

You can achieve even more damage with dagger auto attack than with axe autoattack.
———————————————————————————————————————————-

I will add to this:

-Thieves cant enter stealth while in combat unless using special utility skills with high CD

-Abilities that let you enter stealth while in combat, like cloak and dagger should let you enter stealth without the need to hit anyone

-Stealth has a longer CD

-All kind of damage and blocks should reveal the thief

-Reduce draastically the burst damage of abilities like backstab, its not balaced to practically OHKO someone from stealth, its OP.

-Stealth duration its increased 60%, so thieves have more chance of run or to do something else while in stealth.

Damage listings from wiki, without modifiers, base stats etc
Backstab
Front damage: 403
Back damage: 806
Range: 130

Triple Chop
Damage (3x): 858
Range: 130

One key pressed, 3 hits, more damage than backstab, no need for stealth, no need to be behind enemy.

As to your other points, the entire shadows arts traitline is based around in combat stealth, whats the point of a 5 second regen out of combat? or a blind on stealth when not in combat? The idea of no combat stealth just doesnt work at all sorry.

Damage and blocks reveal thief? with the revealed debuff this would nullify in combat stealth, considering half of our stealth attacks are melee based, again the idea is just a complete fail sorry.

So after completely ruining thief stealth your single idea to improve thief is 60% duration on stealth? so a 3 second stealth becomes 4 seconds? Thats gonna make the viable when they are already one of the weakest spvp and pve classes? Again, horrible idea sorry.

Try again or QQ somewhere else

azerte.4365:

testpig.5018:

solutions:
-if damage is taken while in stealth.. the damage numbers should appear the the player delivering the attack.
-If hit by a critical attack while stealth, you should be revealed
-All traps triggered by a stealth player should cause the player to be revealed
-Any attack from stealth if blocked should reveal the player
-If targeting a player that enters stealth, and not acquiring a new target before the stealth player reappears, should automatically re-target
-The first attack from dropping from stealth OR from being stealth should have the same bonuses as the attack from stealth.

- damage does not show up while the thief is in stealth, so you have no guarantee that you hit him
- Critical attacks don’t reveal a thief
- blocking an attack does not reveal him

You are amazingly wrong. IF your using autoattack your chain will advance when you hit a thief in addition the combat number DO show up in your combat log, you just have to pay attention. its quite simple.

Stealth breaks when a thief deals damage, if the attack is blocked, he didnt deal damage so why would he be revealed?

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

Shemsu.8721:

Fenrir.5493:

This is not the way to solve the problem, to solve this problem there are things that are needed:

-Thieves cant enter stealth while in combat unless using special utility skills with high CD

-Abilities that let you enter stealth while in combat, like cloak and dagger should let you enter stealth without the need to hit anyone

-Stealth has a longer CD

-All kind of damage and blocks should reveal the thief

-Reduce draastically the burst damage of abilities like backstab, its not balaced to practically OHKO someone from stealth, its OP.

And this will balance the things, and now the thieves are fixed.

You do realize that warriors axe autoattack does MORE damage than backstab right?? Every class has a number of skills that do more damage than thieves, doesnt require stealth, doesn’t require position behind enemy. You need to be more informed how things work before making suggestions as silly as this

Your argument is void till said skills are placed on an 4 sec CD.

You want warriors autoattacks to be on a 4 second cd?
And if you want other classes cd reduced, then those attacks should also require stealth an also require position behind enemy, currently only thief has such reqs on attacks and STILL does less damage than many classes. ie Kill shot, axe triple chop etc

Fenrir.5493:

This is not the way to solve the problem, to solve this problem there are things that are needed:

-Thieves cant enter stealth while in combat unless using special utility skills with high CD

-Abilities that let you enter stealth while in combat, like cloak and dagger should let you enter stealth without the need to hit anyone

-Stealth has a longer CD

-All kind of damage and blocks should reveal the thief

-Reduce draastically the burst damage of abilities like backstab, its not balaced to practically OHKO someone from stealth, its OP.

And this will balance the things, and now the thieves are fixed.

How many threads do you plan to post this garbage in? The class was designed around in combat stealth. lower backstab damage? Backstab does LESS damage than warrior axe auto attack, and less than many classes burst abilities. You need to do some research and learn more about this game before posting such drivel

Fenrir.5493:

This is not the way to solve the problem, to solve this problem there are things that are needed:

-Thieves cant enter stealth while in combat unless using special utility skills with high CD

-Abilities that let you enter stealth while in combat, like cloak and dagger should let you enter stealth without the need to hit anyone

-Stealth has a longer CD

-All kind of damage and blocks should reveal the thief

-Reduce draastically the burst damage of abilities like backstab, its not balaced to practically OHKO someone from stealth, its OP.

And this will balance the things, and now the thieves are fixed.

You do realize that warriors axe autoattack does MORE damage than backstab right?? Every class has a number of skills that do more damage than thieves, doesnt require stealth, doesnt require position behind enemy. You need to be more informed how things work before making suggestions as silly as this

Maximillian Greil.1965:

the problem with all these suggestions is that it ceases to be a rare weapon. If everyone has 100% access to the skins then it’s not a rare weapon anymore, and it looses it’s value. I like the system they currently have. most people don’t have one, a very select few do. That select few stand out, which I like.

No matter how difficult it is to acquire, if there’s a 100% chance to get it… the game will be flooded with them. Look how many legendaries are around. Just walk around LA for 5 minutes and you’ll see them all over the place.

The problem with your train of thought is that an item that cannot be traded or sold, by default, has a value of 0. You can have the only one in game and its still worth 0 copper.

Secondly, IMO, these skins represent a very nice change of pace. Half the time I login to the game I feel like I logged into my little pony online, my screen is full of unicorn bows shooting rainbows, sunshine swords, clown guns shooting confetti making cute noises and rainbow sta kitten . Some people dont like that sort of theme and have been patiently waiting quite a long time for some more serious themed skins. Locking them behind RNG is just bad.

For the record I wanted a dagger skin and did manage to get lucky, I still feel its a terrible system

minimal to no stealth usage… why take fleet shadow?

Sorrow, you dont need to dodge Flanking strike, only larcenous. so save your dodges for that if you are boon dependant. Your also ignoring the fact that any daze, stun, immob, knockback, knockdown will all ruin both the aa chain and larcenous strike.

As a second note, thieves have constantly been told how great a defense evasion and dodge is compared to invuln, mist form, endure pain, protection etc. so learn to dodge since its such a fantastic defense.

I actually do think we are pretty close to an understanding.
In order to make all parties feel content on this issue, i think the best solution would be to make stealth attacks an F2 mechanic, they could be given a cooldown (if cooldown is very significant, then the attacks could be buffed to compensate)

That would in one stroke fix the spamming backstab issue people have, without needing to cause reveal for no reason. This could also be sort of a add in to the reveal mechanic, or justify putting reveal down to 3s in pvp again, since a thief wouldnt be able to backstab no matter how much they stealthed with whatever cd was put on it.

Trickery could also be used to reduce stealth attack cooldowns giving it more purpose as well

Hopefully someone from anet reads this been a problem for a long while.

concerning basi venom. Sebrent you pointed out you thought the change from stone to stun was a bug fix and thats fine i guess, but if its a stun, and it can be ended by stun breakers, why is it not affected by + stun duration? seems like its still bugged to me, until either I can boost duration or it goes back to being a stone not stun

Heres the difference Seb, if someone is thinking a warrior is about to killshot, they pop aegis, the warrior can hit autoattack clear the aegis (or blind if opponent used that) then proceed to killshot unhindered. now for thief, he goes stealth, enemy pops an aegis or blind, how does the thief clear that whilst keep stealth attack available? any attack he uses will break his stealth, there is no way for him to counter play that defense, like other classes can

Actually wouldnt the master race be the class that created that stability you stole? Mesmer can steal mortar stability too, its not impressive