I’m all for removing bonus team members from PvP.
Nerfed by relativity confirmed
You interrupting cluster spam doesn’t change that the thief is dying from AI auto attacks.
I’m curious. What’s the difference between an AI hitting you with auto attacks and a player hitting you with auto attacks?
I don’t know if you’ve realized this, but… Auto attacks fire themselves. Automatically. It’s what they do. They also will always be aimed in your general direction so long as the player is facing you.
All the player has to do is hit 1 and the attacks start coming of their own accord. If I’m playing my elementalist I’ll also be hitting you for 2-3K damage a fireball, which is a lot more than Mr. Minion Master is putting out with his minions alone.
A player has to position himself to land auto attacks. I don’t know of Pvpers that have auto auto attacks enabled so that’s news to me if people still do that. The other difference is the number of damage sources. Glass builds need to use dodges to avoid imminent high auto attack damage, which minions have on top of the necro attacks, which don’t crit but have high power. Plus the necro has 2 health bars, both of which are high health and high toughness.
You just can’t deal 40k damage as a thief to something with high toughness before you go down to auto attacks from the AI. It’s also a super long fight as a Shatter if you choose to take it.
(edited by Shockwave.1230)
As for your last post shockwave. You’v flat out shown you have ignored a large chunk of what we have said. If you played hte class youd realize the work it takes to getting those (ai auto attacks) to even LAND. We arn’t fighting you. were fighting your ability to move and your ability to deal damage to us. We are atcively working to mitigate your movement and your damage in that order. I do so using chill,immobilize,fear, and weakness.
THOSE are my damage sources.
AI is the damage source. Play spirit Ranger if you don’t believe me. It’s not a hard counter, because AI aren’t the damage source. It’s just annoying because of the screen clutter and AoE/projectile absorption, other things AI builds are annoying for, but less so than their completely passive auto attack damage
We have already stated that Turret engi is a poor example of an AI build and shouldnt even be refered to as such. It is everything than an AI build SHOULDNT be able to do. ALthough its no where near as OP as people think it is.
And from what you JUST said.
“Also, if the AI is losing to cluster spam, you aren’t using your fears, golem charge, or dps right. There’s no reason you shouldn’t CC someone targeting your minions. You can’t cluster bomb and avoid the CC at the same time. You basically get to let your AI win for you in that situation.”
The ENTIRE PLAYSTYLE is based around the necro acting as a control center. this has been stated MULTIPLE times throughout our thread. You just ADMITTED that it takes player interaction to be able to win against the clusterbomb attacks. and your right. it did. And I did. I….not my pets….ME…the person controlling them adapted and found a way to beat them. Ty for admitted that it takes a player decision…timing…and yes…skill…to defeat an opponent.
Hopefully youl remember that next time one of us eats you alive.
Edit: Added Quotation marks
You interrupting cluster spam doesn’t change that the thief is dying from AI auto attacks.
As stated by Bhawb the minions WITHOUT player interaction do….Pitiful damage. You could sit there and let them beat on you in full glass and it would still take 10+ seconds to kill you. Thats WAYYYY longer than it would take a player to kill you. Assuming your competent (which I will for the sake of argument and my trust in you as a fellow player not to talk about something you dont know) Youl be moving. This will cut that dps in half due to the pets (move…stop….attack…move…stop..attack) If you are REALLY outplaying the owner. This along with dodges….blinds(my minions cant do ANYTHING against blinds) retaliation…reflects…etc..etc.. or any of hte other MYRIAD ways to fight back against them the ONLY dangerous part of them that should even touch you is there actives. Becuase we chain the actives with our control skills to make kitten sure those hit because there the driving force of our builds.
I will go ahead and say this. There are two things that help me beat thieves. I have TRAINED a thief player to beat me and he now does so 7/10 times in 1v1s when we play together. The first mistake he was making. Tunnel visioning. His lack of situational awareness was the number one cause of most of his deaths. When he sat back and looked at the whole screen while zoomed out and actualy let the information hit him he performed SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER. He hten was winning against me half the time.
He then made a different change I didnt expect. Before hed used blinds to try and stop my minions from effecting him. He decided to throw a hydromancy sigil onto his melee and ranged weapon sets. He would attack me. Cause my minions to cluster around me. Then switch to his shortbow chilling my minions KEEPING US CLUSTERED and then evading away to fire that cluster bomb on us. It effing wrecks me when he does that. Hel then kite my flesh golem and any unexploded bone minions away and when they get close weapon swap again slowing htem down AGAIN and shadowstep to me and dpsing me.
This was effing brilliant and something id never seen a thief do up to that point. He adapted an underused sigil and used to pretty much violate my key mechanic. Id reccomend trying something similar. Find something NEW to use instead of repeating old mistakes.
Fights don’t last 10 seconds in Guild Wars 2, even as a glass cannon vs glass cannon. Fights last two to three times that long at least unless you get the jump on a glass cannon. As a glass cannon even if you get the jump on a sustain build they will always last more than 10 seconds unless they’re afk.
Black powder doesn’t work against MMs. It’s you vs a player and AI. You only get to focus on one or the other. Black powder has no effect on turret engi. There’s no way to know that you need to spec vs an AI build until it’s too late.
Also, if the AI is losing to cluster spam, you aren’t using your fears, golem charge, or dps right. There’s no reason you shouldn’t CC someone targeting your minions. You can’t cluster bomb and avoid the CC at the same time. You basically get to let your AI win for you in that situation.
You can’t see the player when they’re invisible, but you can see the burst attempt coming and avoid it because you can always see someone going into stealth.
Unless I magically gain the ability to see in a 360 degree range around me, no. I can’t ALWAYS see them enter stealth. That is what makes a backstab thief so incredibly frustrating. 90% of the time you’re not even aware that one is in the vicinity before you’re stunned by basilisk’s venom and have lost a huge chunk of health.
Bare in mind I can and do fight and beat thieves. I actually took the time to play a thief for a little while and figure out how the initiative system works so that I could better predict the thief’s moves. It totally worked, but I can still be caught off guard by one if they are crafty enough to get within sneakin’ range of me when my back is turned.
How is this different than missing a Warrior rushing into a team fight and getting eviscerated? Or missing a Ranger pull up to a team fight and quickness rapid fire you? Or missing a dps guardian who teleports into a fight?
The difference is none if you miss them all happening.
I have no issue with stealth burst. You can always see it coming and can avoid the burst.
I find the fact you claim you can always see an invisible attack coming hilarious.
No, you can’t. That’s the entire point. If you’re mid-transport or already engaged and don’t see the thief before he enters stealth, which if he’s a good thief at all you won’t because he’ll come at you from an angle you’re likely not looking at, you are going to be hit by an attack you did not know was coming.
Now if you do manage to see his attack coming, sure. You know what to anticipate. But to say that you can ALWAYS see an invisible opponent coming at you is just incorrect.
Know what you can always see coming though? A huge mob of deformed zombie monsters barreling down at you or sitting on a point. If you see an MM necromancer, or even a turret engineer, you immediately know exactly what is about to happen.
It really does seem like you don’t like heavy AI builds because they counter your playstyle. As a ranged nuker thieves are the hard-counter to my playstyle as well. Most builds do, and probably should, have something that gives them a hard time.
You can’t see the player when they’re invisible, but you can see the burst attempt coming and avoid it because you can always see someone going into stealth.
From Ehecatl’s perspective let me say I also play a power ranger (que laughter) We all know how most power ranger builds fair against certain burstier proffesions (which will remain unnamed)
When im on my ranger the most frustrating feeling in the world. THE WORST. Is when I get dropped before being able to react. Be it several strikes to the back from stealth. Purple butterflies of death. Or an axe to the face. Its frustrating. Its degrading. It leaves you with a feeling of “There is absolutely nothing I could have done better in that situation without the ability to see the future” However it makes it that much more satisfying when I change something and get to drive the spike into there chest.
Even if you only have one hit point a wins a win right?
Certain things are going to be frustrating the fight. That is an innate nature of MMO PvP. From the lockdown mes of gw1. To the 3 minute long CC chains of old WoW. TO those gods be kitten ED shadowknights in EQ1 and 2.
The difference between power Ranger thief matchups is that it’s players playing. whereas something like DP vs Turrets is death by AI auto attacks. There’s no skill to that.
When I play D/P I happen to look for my favorite hard counters, Celestial and Condi engi and Dps guardian. These are DP hard counters, but they are steal beatable because you can overcome the build matchups by out playing the player.
When it’s DP vs Mm or Turrets you can outplay the player and it doesn’t matter because you’re dying to AI auto attacks.
I don’t care what build I fight against, as long as it’s a player doing the fighting.
Builds with 3+ AI that apply so much pressure on their own that the AI build hard counters builds like Shatter or D/P is stupid. There’s no reason builds should have so much passive pressure that they hard counter other builds.
So you’re absolutely fine when a burst profession comes out of invisibility and hits you for more health than you have, completely circumventing the fight and claiming a win? Or perhaps a profession that constantly fades in and out of visibility or spams blinds so half your attacks don’t hit?
Personally, I get very frustrated when I fight anything that forces me to keep mashing the target button because my target gets dropped every few seconds. Even now that I’m fairly good at countering that playstyle it still gets on my nerves. But hey, different strokes right? If we start removing entire playstyles just because they annoy different people we won’t even have a game to play anymore.
AI builds at least can be hard countered pretty well when exposed to heavy AoE damage. The well designed AI builds also still need player guidance to be effective, and those of us using AI builds would very much like MORE control over it. It’s not you being killed by PVE, it’s you being killed by the mechanics of your opponent, just like if you had gotten off your shatter on someone or blinded someone until dead.
I have no issue with stealth burst. You can always see it coming and can avoid the burst.
Yes Shatter can beat Mm if you play patiently and use your range advantage. Turret engi is only a win for Shatter if all turrets are colocated so a shatter burst can eliminate all turrets simultaneously, and crate isn’t available or dies during the burst, and you manage to interrupt the 1/2 second engi heal. Aka bad strategy putting all turrets together.
D/P on the other hand doesn’t have a range advantage, nor the insane AoE burst available to Mesmer.
You can avoid all AI active procs and will still die to AI auto attacks as D/P or Shatter before you’ll take down a turret engi or Minion mancer necro.
There is no player skill to dying from that. It’s death by PvE.
Once again everything Shadelang said is true.
MM Necromancers aren’t overly annoying aside from screen clutter. When I meet one as my staff elementalist I mostly just grin as I imagine his soon to come despair at having seen all his minions burn to ashes around him.
I’ve out dueled turret engineers on my BM ranger a couple times. The turrets are annoying at most, but I’m tanky enough to shrug off their damage and even if the net turret immobilizes me my raven is still in the engineer’s face hitting him for 2K an auto attack. My elementalist… Just nuke the whole area. Good bye turrets.
But no matter what I play thieves are still frustrating to fight, even when I win. Hammer warriors and bomb engineers smacking me around is just plain aggravating. Terrormancer… That gives me flashbacks to World of Warcraft back when warlocks were severely overpowered and could kill you with fear and DoT spam before you got control of your character back. The horror…
There are a lot of builds that are very aggravating to fight, but that doesn’t mean they all have to disappear forever.
I don’t care what build I fight against, as long as it’s a player doing the fighting.
Builds with 3+ AI that apply so much pressure on their own that the AI build hard counters builds like Shatter or D/P is stupid. There’s no reason builds should have so much passive pressure that they hard counter other builds.
Dying to PvE while in PvP is the most frustrating thing I have ever experienced while gaming
Give it a hard 2.5 second forced recharge for everything. Add 2.5 seconds to things that normally have a 5 second recharge. That is what power block should be.
I hate AI in PvP, just need to make sure everyone knows.
It’s easier to expect nothing when they don’t set an expectation that they are constantly expanding the game.
There’s been so much focus on the new player experience for the past year, that it only makes sense that Anet is going to launch something with a hype train soon.
I don’t know what it is, but I hope it’s worth the hype.
They’ve been expanding the game minorly for the past 2 years. Hopefully it’s that they are going to do a bulky expansion. Free or paid, I don’t care, I just would like to see new skills, traits, zones, weapons, enemies, game modes, storyline, etc. happen all at once so that it’s overwhelming to play the game again.
Personally, I’m OK with how boss stealing works.
Just because a creature has spawned doesn’t mean you need to kill it. In fact, in a lot of high level games, you’ll see the creatures up for long amount of time without being attempted. Players understand the value of a kill, but they also appreciate the risk associated with the attempt.
Before you attempt a creature, you should ask yourself the following questions:
- Where is the enemy team?
- Talk with your team, or at the very least try to get a rough approximation of enemy player location by reading the mini-map. Also try to be cognizant of enemy respawn timers, as players will often times push to far point off of a respawn, setting themselves up for a perfect boss steal opportunity. On the flip side, watch the NPC mini-map icons for movement – if you see it move at all you know that the enemy team is attempting a kill.
- Do I have the ability to safely secure this boss kill?
- Often times you’ll see players with tanky builds or condition-based builds attempting to take creatures by themselves. There’s a good chance that if a burst spec’d enemy player comes across you while you’re fighting an NPC, they’re going to steal the kill.
At the end of the day, it really comes down to map awareness and risk assessment.
One thief can steal every boss waiting around in stealth.One hits the boss, he got it.. and he’s gone…yeah tactical play my kitten .
which is why you have a scout for thieves. you can see them coming if you monitor both avenues leading to chief/svanir while team is doing killing.
Also if you don’t have a visual on a stealth prof like engi Mesmer thief etc. Or know they’re on respawn, then you kitten the risk, if it’s too high then don’t take the boss.
Power Ranger will be able to keep Mesmer in check post patch.
To be fair OP, this is ANet we’re talking about.
They delivered a lot more content with less staff in Guild Wars 1.
Prices will normalize shortly after the release for anyone concerned about an advantage.
To be completely honest, giving Rangers a ‘fast hands’ style trait would likely have resolved a very large part of the game play issues that were holding power Rangers back. It wouldn’t fix the fact that the class is borderline useless to a group in WvW, but it would have at least been fun to play.
Engineers, Warriors, and to a lesser extent Elementalists are in such a high competitive power tier because they have such great access to their tool sets.
Alright just trying to get all of these thoughts into a single concise list. (Please note this does not mean that any of these things will happen)
- First person camera
- Increase max dolly (camera distance) distance
- Decrease min dolly distance
- More finite dolly control
- Automatic camera height adjustment on /sleep emote
- Manual camera height adjustment
- Stop ‘random snapping’ from happening
- Look at camera
- Free orientation movement
- Fix automatic camera height so that the over the shoulder camera works as it would be expected to work
- Manual FoV adjustment
Please let me know if there is anything else I’m missing.
Look through objects instead of the camera automatically adjusting its zoom when it encounters objects.
I would imagine the reason y’all haven’t implemented this yet is because you’ve found challenges in dealing with ground targetings when combined with this. Ways to deal with these issues are to make transparent objects due to camera not targetable by ground targeting. You guys probably also have hollow objects, which is a bigger problem to tackle if it exists.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Warrior
perhaps you might wish to request for this rune set to be modified …
(1): +25 Vitality
(2): +35 Power
(3): +50 Vitality
(4): +65 Power
(5): +100 Vitality
(6): -20% recharge on weapon swap.for the (6) bonus, a -20% for non warrior profession would be 8 seconds.
now if that -20% bonus is buffed to -30% on weapon swap then it would be 7 seconds.
not quite 5 seconds, 2 seconds longer, but 3 seconds shorter than 10 seconds.
plus, you get +175 vitality and +100 power as well.if we take it a step further, say make it -40% recharge on weapon swap, it would become 6 seconds? that’s almost 5 seconds!
and if it stacks wth fast hands, 5 seconds -40% = 3 seconds ???
warriors changing weapons every 3 seconds?
5 seconds is very good already though.
3 second weapon swaps is fast, but look at the diminishing returns on that for warrior. Fast hands is 50% by itself. The rune would be 40% by itself. If you combine them it’s only a 70% benefit.
Situationally the extra 20% from combining these two could be better, but other rune bonuses would provide a greater overall benefit.
Anthony, can you tell me why karma seems much less important now that it has been at release?
We have added a few karma sinks along the way but typically new content comes with a new currency, eg. candy corn or geodes. I haven’t personally implemented all of this content or currency but if I had to guess I would say that this pattern exists because we actually want to give you specific rewards for specific content.
Thank you for the insight! That makes a lot of sense. Currency being delivered by certain areas prevents people from stockpiling universal currencies and getting rewards without experiencing the content.
Devourer Venom as is, as an elite. Discuss.
I think this is becoming a thing, as people are anticipating the buffs to ranged DPS, so I thought I’d share what I’ve found is effective vs a comp like this as a D/P
Vs teams with two (or more) ranged DPS builds, like Shatter and Power Ranger for example, I find myself contributing minimally in team fights, unless an enemy is out of position and they can be focused from melee range. Most of the time you’ll find yourself needing to use shortbow poking their front line. Land your weakness combos as best you can.
It’ll be infrequent at best that there will be openings worth taking. Spiking at the 50% threshold is the best you’ll get, but don’t reveal yourself if possible. Try a ranged cluster bomb and time your BPHS into Steal to land just after the cluster bomb hits. You’ll be stealthed, so you can’t be targeted. Obviously if you’re anticipating a heal to be incoming, just make the steal and DPS away after the interrupt. Then get away from the body, because there will likely be heavy cleave. Don’t use Shadow Step in team fights unless absolutely necessary, because then you lose on opportunity to decap.
One of your best options is to decap, which is easier said then done vs two intelligently position ranged DPS builds (and depending on map). If you are caught decapping without having shadow step and SR available (even after you decap), you should be dead. You’ll likely pull one of the ranged builds. You should leave at this point, because if you get baited into a fight, it’s usually in the enemy teams best interest to commit the second to you once you engage. If you find yourself without SR in that situation you’re likely dead. Shadow step might save you depending on the map and if you have enough initiative to infiltrator’s arrow a time or two.
Ideally you’d get the decap, and they’d send both at you, but a smart team will send one with the other on standbye. Once you get the decap you just want to leave. Then ideally you’d go after the second ranged dps build while the other is recapping the point from you, and your team should support you on the other ranged DPS. But be ready to port away with something, because you’ll quickly need to once the fight shifts to you and the other ranged DPSer.
Ideally, this will at least force the opposing team away from the point where the fight is happening. Smarter teams that play two ranged DPSers is h@rd on a comp with a D/P thief in my experience, mainly because you’re so vulnerable and usually outpositioned. I don’t know how S/D fairs, but I’d imagine it could be worthwhile to jump into team fights if you can pull their focus while maintaining evade frames.
Your team should fair better in skirmish situations where there are fights of 2s and 3s. Be careful if in a 3v3 with the two ranged dps profs.
A lot depends on the rest of each comp, but I thought I’d share some of what I’ve been noticing.
(edited by Shockwave.1230)
Thieves are in a really mediocre spot right now in pvp, a lot of top teams don’t run thieves anymore. In the ToL you could see the teams with thieves in them being overrun by teams without and both NA and EU winners didn’t have a thief in the comp. The thieves that were there weren’t that impressive as far as their contribution went.
Sure thief is still the best class to kill bad players, tied with mesmer perhaps, but it’s really not among the top classes anymore(warrior, engi and ele).
Dat sustain
I keep seeing people say venoms were buffed. Did I miss something?
I thought only the venom share trait was changed so allies use the thief’s condi stats instead of their own. That’s not a change to venom, it’s a change to a trait that is used by venom share.
Venom haven’t been buffed. Venom share was.
Besides that Dagger auto attack has cleave +1. Those are the only incoming buffs.
I was able to count the number of thoughts proposed
Very one-sided, condi overload dominated.
They had classes that could handle the condi-overload.
I mean it couldn’t possibly be that Outplayed actually just “played” better….
Outplayed definitely played their own comp well, no doubt.
Are we going to factor in the NA tournament into this conversation or are we going to continue on this charade?
Considering it was a staff ele and fresh air ele on each team, it may or may not be worth discussing
Very one-sided, condi overload dominated.
The best thing you can do is talk about things you’ve done, without saying what you’re going to implement.
For example, “We’ve tried doing x,y,z mechanics with profession x. We did find things we liked about those mechanics, some did not seem to fit right with the profession though.”
Thanks for the feedback. This definitely hits on the rising themes we’ve seen coming from the community.
Creating a sense of progression through the different PvP types is definitely something we want. Hotjoin is not structured enough for new players, while team and solo arena are too daunting.
Open spectating of rated matches requires a lot of back-end work to make it scale to any number of viewers and support delays to prevent abuse. It is also less of a priority than leagues and seasons. Especially since we still have authorized shoutcasters and streamers.
Q.Q
Information… on… priorities…
T.T
So… happy…
With the impact of ranged and AoE damage buffs coming to Ranger and Mesmer, being Viable as D/P means you’ll have to pick your targets and moments more carefully.
Positioning and first strike vs these professions will be more important after the changes.
Asking for a buff by calling existing functionality a bug?
Perhaps this is intended, fire shield is weak compared to chaos armor.
Several professions have AI build concepts which may suit your needs. Phantasm Mesmer I feel would be good for you. Decoy will bide you a moment to reposition yourself so you can fight again.
Bear bow Ranger is another concept that could work for you. The bear is tank y and you have a stealth to reposition if necessary via longbow
Please provide employees enough rope to talk about high level details about things their trying, without saying what they intend to implement. For example when you’re trying different game modes you can obscure what the future implementation will be by providing all the game modes you’ve been trying, some of the game modes you’ve been trying, or point out elements of game modes you think would be cool to implement.
When the community interacts with the devs and other reps, it can feel like they are afraid to talk, and scared to interact back with us. That could be because the community itself is somewhat scary, but given the body of interactions it feels like it’s also, because they can’t interact back with us without facing reprecussions.
Links are good, muey bueno
I’d be curious if it’s difficult to adjust the camera and move at the same time while performing game action
It’s hotjoin. Who cares about that.
The new players playing the game.
If a “new player playing the game” has any willingness to improve, then he will hopefully spectate those players that “farm” him and he will learn something about their builds and how to play. And he could join the “better” team once it reaches 4 players.
That’s actually what I did when I was still new to the game: by spectating the people who kitten d me I was able to understand some basic stuff (like thieves, for example).If he doesn’t want to improve, then what’s the point?
This really has nothing to do with thread discussion. People are discussing how the hotjoin imbalances don’t cater to casuals and new players, therefore pvp numbers are less likely to grow.
It’s hotjoin. Who cares about that.
The new players playing the game.
^ The issue doesn’t impact me, but if we’re trying to grow the playerbase, this should be the top priority
I’m all for nerfing/removing AI from the game’s pvp
Eh, I wouldn’t call it hybrid, it’s on the same level as the warrior rifle – bleed on autoattack while the rest of the set had nothing to do with conditions whatsoever. Since anet changed the warrior rifle to be more consistent, I think d/d should get the same treatment.
Poison on autoattack, Bleeding on Death Blossom, Cripple on Dancing Dagger. It also does good DD. It’s a hybrid sir, deal with it.
The problem with considering it hybrid is that, unlike any other hybrid build, it’s melee range on a squish profession.
Warrior hybrid is a sustainy build. Ele hybrid is sustainy. Engineer hybrid is ranged and sustainy.
Squishy and hybrid doesn’t go together, especially in melee range.
Err, you’re wrong. Every time you try to build damage as a Thief, you’ll end up to be squishy.
I did not mention building as damage.
I guess hybrid is no longer a damage oriented build. My bad.
You’ll have to clarify what you mean for a meaningful response
You said;
The problem with considering it hybrid is that, unlike any other hybrid build, it’s melee range on a squish profession.
Which is wrong, because whether you build power, condition, or hybrid (which means damage + condition) as a Thief you’ll always going to be squishy.
But it seems that the meaning of “hybrid” differs in your interpretation of the word. So it’s my bad for not knowing that the meaning of “hybrid” has shifted from being damage oriented to something else.
All I was pointing out with that statement is why hybrid doesn’t work with D/D on thief. D/D lacks survivability because of how squishy it is. This makes building as a hybrid not work well. squish + hybrid + melee is no bueno.
I see best results with D/D building as power, but it’s still not great.
That’s why you’re wrong. Regardless of which damage build you choose (power, condition, hybrid) as a Thief, you’ll still be squishy. So basically what you’re saying is, hybrid is a “no bueno” for Thief because there’s no other weapon set that will allow hybrid at range — oh wait, P/P and Shortbow are godly as a hybrid weapon of choice. Please…
I don’t agree with shortbow, but pistol is good as a hybrid weapon, because it’s ranged, which is part of what I’ve been saying.
Dagger/Dagger puts the thief in a situation where you are melee and squishy, which means hybrid damage is no bueno. Perhaps I should have been more clear.
Eh, I wouldn’t call it hybrid, it’s on the same level as the warrior rifle – bleed on autoattack while the rest of the set had nothing to do with conditions whatsoever. Since anet changed the warrior rifle to be more consistent, I think d/d should get the same treatment.
Poison on autoattack, Bleeding on Death Blossom, Cripple on Dancing Dagger. It also does good DD. It’s a hybrid sir, deal with it.
The problem with considering it hybrid is that, unlike any other hybrid build, it’s melee range on a squish profession.
Warrior hybrid is a sustainy build. Ele hybrid is sustainy. Engineer hybrid is ranged and sustainy.
Squishy and hybrid doesn’t go together, especially in melee range.
Err, you’re wrong. Every time you try to build damage as a Thief, you’ll end up to be squishy.
I did not mention building as damage.
I guess hybrid is no longer a damage oriented build. My bad.
You’ll have to clarify what you mean for a meaningful response
You said;
The problem with considering it hybrid is that, unlike any other hybrid build, it’s melee range on a squish profession.
Which is wrong, because whether you build power, condition, or hybrid (which means damage + condition) as a Thief you’ll always going to be squishy.
But it seems that the meaning of “hybrid” differs in your interpretation of the word. So it’s my bad for not knowing that the meaning of “hybrid” has shifted from being damage oriented to something else.
All I was pointing out with that statement is why hybrid doesn’t work with D/D on thief. D/D lacks survivability because of how squishy it is. This makes building as a hybrid not work well. squish + hybrid + melee is no bueno.
I see best results with D/D building as power, but it’s still not great.
(edited by Shockwave.1230)
I do like the idea of doing some sort of ‘profession archetype’, or a way to visually see if they are a power/toughness/condi/ect spec build.
DO NOT do that, please! It would be gamebreaking! Think about it: the game has just begun, people head to mid, they see 2 enemy guards coming over, they know that one of them is PROBABLY dps and the other one is PROBABLY bunker, but they have to wait those 2-3 seconds to decide which will be the target.
Doing what you say would completely eliminate those “2-3 seconds”.
It’s ok to dinstinguish 2 guardians (for example) from the enemy team, it is NOT ok to dinstinguish them by build. The variation should just be used to distinguish one guardian from the other NOT to dinstinguish from one guardian’s build to the other.
2-3 seconds of a 15 minute match is now gamebreaking?
I’d say even 1 second delay is gamebreaking. The average human reaction is 0.3 seconds, what do you think would happen if a DPS guardian and a bunker guardian who look completely the same come to mid?
Your team sure will target the DPS guardian but wait! Which one of them is the DPS? Which one the bunker? In the meanwhile, the DPS guardian could have done the standard teleport+whirling wrath combo, maybe even killing one guy on your side.Now what if they look different? Let’s say there a set rule that identify the build (and it’s not randomic): enemy team bunker guardian is red, enemy team DPS guardian is yellow. Midgifht begins, there are 2 guardians coming towards you but hey! Let’s target the yellow one immediatly, he is surely DPS.
See what this could cause?
Seems like two sides of the same coin and both sides think it’s game breaking.
“You can’t visually tell what build is a dps! Game broken! "
“You can visually tell I’m a dps! Game broken!”
It really doesn’t matter either way, it just changes the openings of the initial engagement and after that there’s no difference. Nothing is actually broken either way.
Eh, I wouldn’t call it hybrid, it’s on the same level as the warrior rifle – bleed on autoattack while the rest of the set had nothing to do with conditions whatsoever. Since anet changed the warrior rifle to be more consistent, I think d/d should get the same treatment.
Poison on autoattack, Bleeding on Death Blossom, Cripple on Dancing Dagger. It also does good DD. It’s a hybrid sir, deal with it.
The problem with considering it hybrid is that, unlike any other hybrid build, it’s melee range on a squish profession.
Warrior hybrid is a sustainy build. Ele hybrid is sustainy. Engineer hybrid is ranged and sustainy.
Squishy and hybrid doesn’t go together, especially in melee range.
Err, you’re wrong. Every time you try to build damage as a Thief, you’ll end up to be squishy.
I did not mention building as damage.
I guess hybrid is no longer a damage oriented build. My bad.
You’ll have to clarify what you mean for a meaningful response
Was there any doubt in people’s mind that EU had 3 clear cut teams above all the rest?
That means the 1 seed will have it easier until the finals, because 2 and 3 face each other before hand.
Not that it matters, because I’m sure Team Mist feels they could have a rule specifically for them that they have to play all 7 teams in the ToL in order to win. Barring disconnects or some outside influence they probably would too.
It’s unfortunate that the team and mistpedia had to part ways because of this. That relationship resulted in quality improvements to streams and resulted in some unknown streams being discovered or newly created.
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