Guild Wars 2

XenesisII.1540:

SkyShroud.2865:

I pretty sure I repeated this numerous times to numerous people who simply refuse to read the thread.

Probably has something to do with your thread title which upon reading it just instantly invokes people to hate the idea before you even presented it and say no. Then not even bothering to read your thread properly, just dropping down their opinion that they don’t want deletion of any means.

If you want more people to read your thread seriously, then give it a proper title, like you know, Solution to server population imbalance or something.

Initially it was just “Vote to Delete Servers!!”. Then I added in “Make new worlds”. If I were to change it to something completely different, some people might not be able to find the topic. I guess is too late for it =(

morrolan.9608:

SkyShroud.2865:

Linking is in essence a soft merger to keep “server identity” as intact as possible.

Problem with this is anet did not put anything to promote keeping server identity alive and in fact links ended up killing it anyway. It really is quite laughable how anet didn’t go with the more radical proposal because they were afraid of how the population would react and of killing off the emotional attachment to the mode, yet their solution did it anyway because they didn’t actively try to preserve server identity.

IKR! I am always up for radical changes but meh, a lot of people will just downright go against it without even trying to understand the issues to begin with. As I’ve mentioned previously, many of such people will only truly bothered to start understanding the issues when the issues really affects them. Of course, by then I wonder how many already quit the game.

Grim West.3194

Multi quotes

But this isn’t pvp mmorpg. I know what pvp mmorpg is like, I played them a lot and even ran a leading guild part of a leading alliance before. There are pvp mmorpgs that are way more organised than gw2 wvw community will ever become. So organised in a way that there can be multiple squad commanders like gw2 but above that, there is also supreme commander commanding all the commanders. Overall, this supreme commander, usually the leaders of the leading alliance, will command directly or indirectly up to hundreds of online players for battles. Likewise, in pvp mmorpg, people will leave raid and dungeons to help defend, something you will not see in gw2. Well, initially, gw2 did have guilds like that which came from pvp mmorpg but all of those guilds have left gw2 already.

Naturally, balancing in pvp mmorpg is so very important such that players, if wanted to, can destroy it and I did seen some pvp mmorpg where players knowingly destroy the balance, believing they can force the publisher to merge but in the end publisher shut the game down.

Anyway, main point is gw2 isn’t pvp focused mmorpg.

Strider Pj.2193:

This is no better that the OP’s idea. It’s a forced move, breaking up communities.

Correction, force disperse with freedom to choose new destination. Naturally, this freedom include freedom to reform communities in the new destination as long the limit allows.

Pewbezlol.2470:

99% people i know, start on population servers because it’s nice to play with a lot of people.(99% newb dont know about world server on PvE etc..)

my idea is make 4free to transfer to Medium and Low population servers.

I do not talk much here, but I work on a fairly famous ARPG game,
and if we did an MMO, it sure would be like this, to encourage moving on low-ppl servers.

Right NOW, the bg im fighting is with Maguuma+Devona Rest(70%) vs CD+BP vs DH+Storm.
I do not know exactly what algorithm they are using to assemble this, but what I see is encouragement to go on large population server like Maguuma, Black Gate, Jady, quarry etc …
Or be massacred having to face them.

I have made similar suggestion more than an year ago. Allow free transfer to medium servers or bottom 3 servers. Of course, since I have made that suggestion that long ago, the result of that suggestion is obvious since we don’t have any free transfer yet.

There is no voice whisper feature.
There is no nested channel feature.
There is no individual text channel.
Permissions wise is not as extensive as ts3.

The only two good things about discord are the web interface and free.

The massive boonstripping might end up reverting WvW back to pirateship meta. There is no reason to have frontline if stabs don’t last, that is the concept of pirateship meta.

The problem is you are not fixing the population imbalance issue, just making it look like it is fixed on the scoring level. That is not gonna make people feel any better. It doesn’t feel good to be smashed by a blob twice your size everyday. It doesn’t feel great to know that your server is full thus unable to recruit more to handle that blob that smashes you everyday. The actual gameplay is much more important than the scoring itself.

Jayne.9251:

Pensadora.9478:

Jayne.9251:

Pensadora.9478:

And I would point out that not one person has yet to argue that this gamemode is balanced nor competitive in its current state.

You need to let this go. WvW was never meant to be balanced. The devs themselves have said this many times over the past four years.

I think what you think I mean by balanced is not what I mean by balance. I do NOT mean by balance: equal numbers on each side, as in soccer, football, baseball, etc.

Balanced, as far as I am concerned, is a multi-faceted measure. It is the summation of many factors, population being among them, that create fair and competitive fights.

So, ‘balance’ is not just population.

But, I can understand how you might think this is all that I mean, as currently the massive disparities in population and coverage, which we have been discussing here, show clearly that this gamemode is neither balanced nor competitive in its current state.

That’s all on the players though. Asking Anet to parent when it’s within their power to remedy is like herding cats.

Until the players, guilds, get their act together, no amount of blowing up and rebuilding will fix the issue.

That said, with the dev response, this thread should die lol. It’s academic at this point.

Academic is important, only when people are more informed of the issues then they will understand the limited amount of solutions and be supportive of any solutions that can be implemented to solve the issues. So far, there are more don’t-read than read, so, it is really hard.

Then again, you are also right, devs already explicitly state that we will always fall short in our perspectives due to limited access to the data thus all is pointless.

HOD has fat link, is crazy.

Finally DB and DH are not together, finally anet give them a NA link where they needed it the most.

Firebaall.5127:

I find it pretty silly that Anet merged so many servers, yet won’t touch the Stackgate server problem.

It’s REALLY annoying to get get paired up with servers that are under-performing, then get rematched/paired with servers you fought against. Anet’s “balancing” servers in WvW is a horrible joke. They have ruined any sense of server pride for those servers that are constantly paired up with others.

It’s clear the home server system is a failure in WvW.

Linking is in essence a soft merger to keep “server identity” as intact as possible. In reality, server identity is challenged. Devs understand very well that they can only reduce imbalance issue by consolidating populations but I believe the main problem is that community is not very supportive to any solutions that involve partial or total destruction of servers. This strong objections become a major obstacle to wvw balancing therefore limiting the number of approaches until there isn’t really any immediate approaches left to try.

Kylden Ar.3724:

He’s going on this crusade, using ad homien attacks against you and others, and he’s missing the point. You’re right. Even if they delete the servers and make all new ones, BlackGate will just re-stack on whatever server they choose, and the cycle will repeat.

And you are wrong, just like him, refusing to read? Just because you remake servers, you don’t have to implement the same system. If it isn’t the same system design which allow stacking to occur but instead a system design that aim to correct the flaws of the old one, how can you stack then?

I pretty sure I repeated this numerous times to numerous people who simply refuse to read the thread.

WvW is a community of people. Your knowledge might be limited and not applicable to the community.

Perhaps that huge blob of people actually has a commander and that commander is actually running tagless.

BG should have population during SEA, try seeking them out.
Otherwise, there isn’t a lot choice given that a lot of servers are full.
You only option are the non-full servers.

Among the “Very High” servers, only Dragonbrand and Henge of Denravi have SEA guilds.

Of course, if you are open to transfer to guest servers, you will have a lot of choices. Most host servers will have at least one SEA guild.

StrawHat.2639:

I heard HoD lost about 4guilds recently…building up a NA grp to compensate? yous only had Fate left on NA for HoD from what I remember being paired with yous in the passed.

We have been trying to build up NA presence over the years and we have being consistent in doing so, it has nothing to do with the server. It is simply part of the objective as a international guild, to build up events coverage befitting of the international status.

Also HOD didn’t lose 4 guilds. Only two transferred because of the server status. I will appreciate if you don’t spread baseless rumors and initial it.

BG shouldn’t be quiet unless they are running tagless.

SEA/OCX guilds rarely play on EU servers because of the high ping, easily exceed 300.

What is your actual timezone?

Serenity.6135:

SkyShroud.2865:

Serenity.6135:

SkyShroud.2865:

Serenity.6135:

The rules are the same for all servers. How is Anet supposed to know how many people will transfer to a server, are the devs psychics? Now, you were on HoD which was also closed for some time, and recently opened up correct? If there were mass transfers to HoD which completely threw off the matchups would you still be saying the same thing?

Once again, Anet devs are not psychic, the rules are the same for ALL servers, and we will not be given all the data that they have and use.

The rules are the same but the foundation isn’t the same. The rules do not account for the different foundations therefore the rules are a failure.

Why some servers can queue 4 maps while some don’t despite both being full? Devs already did mention the threshold is fixed and just because it is fixed doesn’t mean you cannot exceed that threshold due to having massive foundation, it isn’t rocket science, it isn’t difficult math.

Serenity.6135:

I think some people seem to forget at times that this is a game…Trying to dictate how long a person stays active in a game with made up timetables is over the top and absurd.

If this is just a game to you, then why do you feel emotional bothered about how system dictate you? If system dictating is you is so bothering, why aren’t you bothered about being kicked from the guild for being inactive? Why aren’t you bothered about being for being afking aka still inactive? There is no philosophy differences here, you are being kick for being inactive. I find your reasoning illogical or able to be sympathy about it, basically uncomprehending.

Wait, so this is not just a game to you? Clearly it’s not me who is emotionally bothered. I believe players should be free to play however they want, whenever. You seem to think that players who don’t play X content for X amount of time need to be penalized because it does not benefit you. Throwing out straw man arguments based on emotion and little consideration of how it would affect others does not help your case.

This isn’t about others, it is about you. You are avoiding the question. I repeat…

If this is just a game to you, then why do you feel emotional bothered about how system dictate you? If system dictating is you is so bothering, why aren’t you bothered about being kicked from the guild for being inactive? Why aren’t you bothered about being for being afking aka still inactive?

Logic has no emotion so please don’t tell me about straw man argument when you are obviously using emotion as part of the argument.

Um excuse me but when were you declared King of GW? Who are you to decide what should happen to every account in the game because you think it will be a benefit to you? Furthermore how do you know this would help your server? You do understand such a change would affect your server and guild as well right? And could even end up lowering your server’s population in the long run.

If it is so difficult to understand that people actually have things to do outside of playing a video game I’m sorry but that is not my fault. Lack of comprehension on your part does not mean every account needs to be subjected to such a penalty because you believe this idea will fix everything…

Btw “This isn’t about others, it is about you” This is essentially what is wrong with your idea. It could affect every single account but you take no consideration whatsoever. Do you not understand, devs look at how changes and features affect the ENTIRE player base not individual servers or players.

You see, you are using strawman argument to its fullest. Who do you think you are to represent others? You can only represent yourself and perhaps people you lead (if you are a leader), yet here you are, at times speak for yourself and at times use others as sympathy tools in your argument. Please do not use others as a convenient tools for your argument, is disgusting. If you have some forms of consistency in the subjects of your arguments, I won’t be annoyed but you don’t have that consistency.

Now, can you stop avoiding the question and answer it? Or perhaps you are avoiding because you know the answer is against yourself?

Serenity.6135:

SkyShroud.2865:

Serenity.6135:

The rules are the same for all servers. How is Anet supposed to know how many people will transfer to a server, are the devs psychics? Now, you were on HoD which was also closed for some time, and recently opened up correct? If there were mass transfers to HoD which completely threw off the matchups would you still be saying the same thing?

Once again, Anet devs are not psychic, the rules are the same for ALL servers, and we will not be given all the data that they have and use.

The rules are the same but the foundation isn’t the same. The rules do not account for the different foundations therefore the rules are a failure.

Why some servers can queue 4 maps while some don’t despite both being full? Devs already did mention the threshold is fixed and just because it is fixed doesn’t mean you cannot exceed that threshold due to having massive foundation, it isn’t rocket science, it isn’t difficult math.

Serenity.6135:

I think some people seem to forget at times that this is a game…Trying to dictate how long a person stays active in a game with made up timetables is over the top and absurd.

If this is just a game to you, then why do you feel emotional bothered about how system dictate you? If system dictating is you is so bothering, why aren’t you bothered about being kicked from the guild for being inactive? Why aren’t you bothered about being for being afking aka still inactive? There is no philosophy differences here, you are being kick for being inactive. I find your reasoning illogical or able to be sympathy about it, basically uncomprehending.

Wait, so this is not just a game to you? Clearly it’s not me who is emotionally bothered. I believe players should be free to play however they want, whenever. You seem to think that players who don’t play X content for X amount of time need to be penalized because it does not benefit you. Throwing out straw man arguments based on emotion and little consideration of how it would affect others does not help your case.

This isn’t about others, it is about you. You are avoiding the question. I repeat…

If this is just a game to you, then why do you feel emotional bothered about how system dictate you? If system dictating is you is so bothering, why aren’t you bothered about being kicked from the guild for being inactive? Why aren’t you bothered about being for being afking aka still inactive?

Logic has no emotion so please don’t tell me about straw man argument when you are obviously using emotion as part of the argument.

You can only hold one guild hall a time, while in fantasy sense it make sense to have multiple guild hall as a form of branches across the land but it doesn’t work that way here.

Natto.5819:

And no, it can’t be abused, since War Councils are the most honorable players in the server.

Are you joking? Have you played pvp mmorpg before? Do you think all leading guilds’ leaderships are honorable players? I play before and play a lot of it, I can assure you it isn’t true. Even myself at times will make personal decision instead of objective decision, why would you think others would not? Many do that, we are all jerk at some points, power corrupt people and in those games, we have tons of power.

Regardless, what you suggested is not part of gw2’s philosophy thus not compatible with the overall designs.

Serenity.6135:

The rules are the same for all servers. How is Anet supposed to know how many people will transfer to a server, are the devs psychics? Now, you were on HoD which was also closed for some time, and recently opened up correct? If there were mass transfers to HoD which completely threw off the matchups would you still be saying the same thing?

Once again, Anet devs are not psychic, the rules are the same for ALL servers, and we will not be given all the data that they have and use.

The rules are the same but the foundation isn’t the same. The rules do not account for the different foundations therefore the rules are a failure.

Why some servers can queue 4 maps while some don’t despite both being full? Devs already did mention the threshold is fixed and just because it is fixed doesn’t mean you cannot exceed that threshold due to having massive foundation, it isn’t rocket science, it isn’t difficult math.

Serenity.6135:

I think some people seem to forget at times that this is a game…Trying to dictate how long a person stays active in a game with made up timetables is over the top and absurd.

If this is just a game to you, then why do you feel emotional bothered about how system dictate you? If system dictating is you is so bothering, why aren’t you bothered about being kicked from the guild for being inactive? Why aren’t you bothered about being for being afking aka still inactive? There is no philosophy differences here, you are being kick for being inactive. I find your reasoning illogical or able to be sympathy about it, basically uncomprehending.

Jski.6180:

At the end of the day if your of a mind to do something you must be willing to take own the burden your self. Its a lot your asking for a lot of ppl. This is not a question of the fine points of your ideal.

You were going along the line of “you need to be prepared to be shot if you want shoot others”. It is just a passerby philosophy comment which pretty much pointless and I can also ignore but still annoying to me because this vague comment can be misleading to people that don’t read.

Jski.6180:

As long as your ok with your world being deleted and made into a new one sure but if your just asking others to bare this burden then no.

It is really triggering when people just stroll into the thread, read the topic title and post a comment that already clarified in the posts.

Swamurabi.7890:

I think that the real problem with WvW population is that the players want and expect a competitive match week after week and day after day but that is not high enough on Anet’s Wvw manifesto.

Thought I made a typo but in T1 and T4 it’s not WvWvW, it’s more like Wvwvw

Nah, competitive is subjective. In a large scale pvp mode, what people really wants or what I really want is to have the “feeling” that there are chances to grow to be comparable and currently, any servers that grow will just hit the threshold and still not able compete with servers that far exceed that threshold.

Also, pof is coming, I feel like pirateship meta is making its return with all the boonstripping.

Raymond Lukes.6305:

Unfortunately we cannot give you all the details. It’s as simple as that. I’m not trying to be mean but there are details of the game and the studio we cannot share with players. Though… If you are really passionate about this problem we’re always looking for good people to join the team https://www.arena.net/#careers.

Unfortunately, I have no interest in a career in game industry or passionate about gw2, I am just happen to be competitive. I also find it more fun to play games than to actually make games.

Regardless, in that case, I guess our only option is to QQ and more QQ, no more talks on solution since any solutions will always fall short due to not able to fulfill all “perspectives”? Then wait for the game mode to be in serious crisis before devs decided to do another quick band aid?

Serenity.6135:

I never said “equal” I said the idea of population balance is not possible regardless of what change is made because of the concept of WvW being a 24/7 game mode, balance is simply not possible. Short sighted ideas like blowing up servers and hoping for a better outcome might make some people feel better but will do absolutely nothing to fix the issue.

It might make more sense to focus on stabilizing server populations by shortening the time between links to one month to decrease the amount of bandwagoning, changing the way transfers work in terms of imposing limits and changes to costs, giving more reasons for players to stay on their current server etc.

Population balance isn’t about equal which is why you think is not possible. Population balancing is about giving servers fighting chance and this fighting chance is not given in the current designs because full servers are not necessary comparable and if they are not comparable, why should they be full in the first place?

It will truly be short sighted if it is plainly blowing it all up and re-using back all the same old designs. Of course the main idea of blowing up is to implement new designs that is only possible after blowing it up. I will be really grateful if people don’t simplify the concepts to the point it lose all meanings.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Additional-World-Linking-Information/first

Elaborate solutions were mentioned before and it also include blowing it up, it is really the only logical option anyway because wvw is already too far off to balance. Ermm, oh, I hope the perspective is not about getting players to accept the elaborate solutions….that will be….hard.

atheria.2837:

I never see you playing on HoD…

It just means you rarely wvw and it says you are from SF, figures. I do vaguely remembered you was raging pointlessly on team chat on one morning (your time) and then offline before everybody else got the chance to flame you.

I believe OP is asking for a branching hierarchy instead of a linear hierarchy like we have now.

Well, a different hierarchy model.

henchmen.1856:

SkyShroud.2865:

henchmen.1856:

SkyShroud.2865:

Hesacon.8735:

I’m more curious how you guys are getting into full servers.

I’ve got friends trying to get into SoS and it’s like, permaclosed for some reason.

I am more curious on how FA stays open when FA got overall more guilds than some “very high” servers. This isn’t unique to FA either, there are some servers like FA too have many guilds.

PS: They aren’t full so I assume you meant how FA isn’t.

lel fa has only 3 na guilds. bomb, die and hp.

Really? Do you queue 4 maps on reset?

queue on reset because pugs and guilds that play once a week =/= wvw guilds

that doesn’t change the fact that FA has tons of people
hod only got 2 queues on reset yet we were full like FA was
unless you are saying your link is fatter than the links given to T4 servers?

Raymond Lukes.6305:

I’d like to start off by saying the WvW team works hard to keep up with forums and also reddit. Your feed back and discussion is awesome and we love reading what you guys have to say. The unfortunate reality is we cannot reply to every post and so it may seem as though we aren’t reading things.

I’ve stated in a previous thread that deleting worlds and letting players choose a new world is something we have considered in many forms. At this time we do not have a solution that we feel solves enough of the issues with population balance while also hitting enough of our requirements for a change to be made.

As I said above we love the discussions and suggestions you guys have for WvW this particular problem is tricky as you guys don’t have all the details we are working from. A lot of the ideas we’ve seen have been well thought out and detailed they fall short because you guys are working from a limited perspective and not solving the whole issue.

What perspectives are missing?

Jayne.9251:

Click on the dev name and you’ll see he was responding to your comments on the same proposal you made in that other thread.

Of course I remember that reply but that reply isn’t made explicitly in this thread and what described in that thread is not even one bit as informative as this. Thus, I don’t even know if the devs actually read this thread.

Jayne.9251:

SkyShroud.2865:

Snip

Raymond Lukes.6305:

Deleting worlds and redistributing players is something that has been considered and discussed. In the way described it is not an option that we feel works to solve the complex issue of world population balance. There are many factors involved many that are not immediately obvious without the data we have access to.

Different context, please elaborate “described”, mr or miss quoter.

STIHL.2489:

I think having a click option would make it easier for Guilds decide how they want to roll, as opposed to kicking or demoting people for being a part of another guild to try and force them to rep more.

Truth be told, I always had at least 2 guilds, one for WvW and one for PvE, and wile I did PvE things with my WvW guild, the guildleader of my PvE focused guild was on another sever so.. I never joined them.

if my PvE guild made it a 100% rep, I would have dropped them in a heartbeat and found another PvE guild. Nothing against them personally, but, they were great people, I was just not going to jump servers or any of that to be in a PvE guild.

my WvW guild fully understood that to get a larger take of players to PvE with that I joined a ‘Mege-Server’ guild, so they din’t have any issues with my doing fractals or dungeons or world bosses with a different tag. But when I logged into WvW. I repped my WvW guild. It was that simple or me.

I get what people are saying about a 100% guild, just saying that due to the way the game modes are setup, i’s not going to be easy to pull it off.

I am sorry but what you said don’t make sense. PvE is not server base so why is there a need for you to change server?

The Path Finder.3197:

…

Yes, I understand. When anet introduce cross-chat, I already know it will makes new startup guild’s life really difficult in the long run. All large guilds need to do is to reaffirm their stand and be more strict on their monitoring to filter undesirable player, it is extra works which require officers to help out with but is fine since they already have the resources built up from the comfortable pre-hot days.

As for startup guild, they need to compete against the already established sphere of influence of many different guilds and not only that, also against other similar startup guilds. To be clear, there are plenty of startup guilds that fall from the pressure of the competitions, one really need to spend a lot of efforts to run a successful social plus more kind of guild in this game.

There was a few times when people asked for more than 5 guilds in the forums, I find that absurd and the people I talk with ingame (not in my guild) too find that 5 guilds is more than enough. People just have no idea how hard to start a new guild and keep it going now thus they always give irresponsible advises.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

SkyShroud.2865:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

SkyShroud.2865:

LOL. You didn’t know what tz we run then maybe you should do research? As for gvg? We did scrim with mgr, ahma, rf, late etc. Well, obviously not the same tz as [RD]. You really need to do research instead of embarrassing yourself with your limited knowledge.

If you got any more defensive a turtle would out pace you.

And I quote myself:
“That advice isn’t necessarily directed at you, it’s just in general if someone on HoD wants to learn how to run as an organized group.”

I was stating things in general, and using you as an “example”.

As for your time zone, you’re Signapore. So I said “I assume you’re close to dawn’s tz”.

I don’t actually care about your guild, bro. It was generic advice, take it, put it in a pipe, and smoke it.

You use “me” as a example, as a what example? Furthermore, you recommend [RD]? Erm…

Honestly speaking, none of my members like to follow [RD]. Likewise, an player from EU server who has UD title and occasionally runs with us time to run with his alt don’t like to follow [RD] either. It is bad advise, very very bad advise. Go do some research.

I used “you” as an example in that I said “You can do this”. That was it. That was the example. It wasn’t meant to implicate anything about you or your guild.

As for “Honestly speaking, none of my members like to follow [RD].”.

Means nothing to me.

Don’t like to follow [RD] because…….?

Because he prefers fights over PPT? I can understand that.

Because he’ll take very uneven fights and it can be demoralizing? I can understand that, but will judge you anyway.

Because he’s not a particularly nice person? I can say that about most of the leadership in this game.

Because he hates pugs? Most people do.

Because he and his group are bad at the game? I disagree.

I will PM you why.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

SkyShroud.2865:

LOL. You didn’t know what tz we run then maybe you should do research? As for gvg? We did scrim with mgr, ahma, rf, late etc. Well, obviously not the same tz as [RD]. You really need to do research instead of embarrassing yourself with your limited knowledge.

If you got any more defensive a turtle would out pace you.

And I quote myself:
“That advice isn’t necessarily directed at you, it’s just in general if someone on HoD wants to learn how to run as an organized group.”

I was stating things in general, and using you as an “example”.

As for your time zone, you’re Signapore. So I said “I assume you’re close to dawn’s tz”.

I don’t actually care about your guild, bro. It was generic advice, take it, put it in a pipe, and smoke it.

You use “me” as a example, as a what example? Furthermore, you recommend [RD]? Erm…

Honestly speaking, none of my members like to follow [RD]. Likewise, an player from EU server who has UD title and occasionally runs with us time to run with his alt don’t like to follow [RD] either. It is bad advise, very very bad advise. Go do some research.

GrahamW.5397:

SkyShroud.2865:

GrahamW.5397:

SkyShroud.2865:

McGodd.9427:

SniffyCube.6107:

Years ago, a list like this would be relevant, but now the experienced players have pooled into 1-3 guilds and that pool will probably become smaller with time.

Atm, imo, the best guilds are kek or borp and then when those guilds break apart, it’ll be whichever guild those same players have gone into. It used to be a huge list and a very spread out list when this game was actually alive, but at this point it’s the same names under a different guild.

Maybe those guilds will continue to stockpile the more experienced players and run 25 – 30 deep gvg veterans. Why not? You can’t fault people for playing with their friends. Everyone likes steamrolling. ..Maybe they’ll break apart into smaller guilds and try to train new people… who knows, but I don’t see the competitive scene reviving itself anytime soon. Not the way things are going, and it’s pretty hard to pick up pugs and try to build a core with them. Combine that with how badly everyone memes on guilds trying to build… not many make it.

Also, the “rest” of our guilds all have footage of us dumpstering each other at one point in time. It’s pretty hard to tell at this point who is the better guild. Maybe over the course of the year certain guilds happened to come out on top more often than not? Everyone here has had a kitten day or two. I’m not sure what the litmus test is, but if this is a purely open field guide then I know for a fact I’ve killed almost everyone on this list at one point or another and have been killed by most at least once. It’s pretty much impossible to get an objective view at this point.

All that being said, VII has always been fun fights. As have the rest of you. All we can really do now is go down with the ship as we get 1 new thing added to WvW every 4-6 months in the hopes that we all stay interested enough to keep playing.

TLDR: Same kitten different day.

jul… xxx Julian xxx, you got kicked 5 months ago. let it go.

Hey, I’m the leader of BoRP. I think you have a very unclear view of what kind of guild we are, what we’ve done, and who we are. In our roster we have about six people out of 28 that anybody would consider ‘old GvG veterans.’ Almost all of us are competitively-minded players from different parts of the game that came together with a positive attitude and a willingness to improve. We’ve trained from scratch about 90% of our current roster and continue to accept players from every part of the game that have a decent mechanical level and a good attitude. One of the best players in our guild came from TORK.

A competitive game mode needs people at a high level and people at a mid level. A lot of people have this misconception that every top guild needs to disband for there to be a viable scene; but the truth is that if that happens then there’s nobody to drive progression. The GvGs and open field fights BoRP had against KEK throughout HoT pushed both guild’s members as both players and theory crafters, leading to a much more refined meta in NA.

I’ve gotten pretty tired of uninformed people saying this repeatedly and have felt like it invalidates all the hard work my guild members have put in for the last year, so I apologize if my post comes off as aggressive.

I think he meant that he feels most top guilds didn’t start from complete fresh players but rather experienced players from retired guilds, moving to a same new guild and bringing those knowledge to only that new guild.

Read Veri’s post again my dude.

I did.

Veri do admit that his roster is not complete fresh players and of course, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t have any fresh players.

What Sniffy is trying to say that guilds that end up with a group of elite players, regardless how big or how small, just as long there is a group, it can help to guide all those future fresh players recruited, giving birth to a new top guild. Likewise, group of elite players tend to stay together thus the number of new top guild become limited due to limited spread of knowledge. It is not like complete fresh rosters can’t become new top guild, it just take way lot more efforts and time, they have to do more experiments due to lack of experiences elsewhere those with elite groups of players can afford to do less since they experimented it before and from experiences decided certain things won’t work.

The main point is Sniffy didn’t really demean and say anyone not putting any efforts, just the amount of efforts varies thus the number of top guild born is also limited due to the amount of efforts required also varies.

Veri knows what Cid is trying to say, he’s just letting him know he is misinformed. How is Cid saying stuff like oh they’re full of gvg vets that they stockpiled because they like steamrolling and thats why they are so strong when this is just straight up untrue not demeaning to the hard work those players put in to get to that level.

Oh right, the stockpiling part, I see.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

SkyShroud.2865:

McGodd.9427:

SniffyCube.6107:

Years ago, a list like this would be relevant, but now the experienced players have pooled into 1-3 guilds and that pool will probably become smaller with time.

Atm, imo, the best guilds are kek or borp and then when those guilds break apart, it’ll be whichever guild those same players have gone into. It used to be a huge list and a very spread out list when this game was actually alive, but at this point it’s the same names under a different guild.

Maybe those guilds will continue to stockpile the more experienced players and run 25 – 30 deep gvg veterans. Why not? You can’t fault people for playing with their friends. Everyone likes steamrolling. ..Maybe they’ll break apart into smaller guilds and try to train new people… who knows, but I don’t see the competitive scene reviving itself anytime soon. Not the way things are going, and it’s pretty hard to pick up pugs and try to build a core with them. Combine that with how badly everyone memes on guilds trying to build… not many make it.

Also, the “rest” of our guilds all have footage of us dumpstering each other at one point in time. It’s pretty hard to tell at this point who is the better guild. Maybe over the course of the year certain guilds happened to come out on top more often than not? Everyone here has had a kitten day or two. I’m not sure what the litmus test is, but if this is a purely open field guide then I know for a fact I’ve killed almost everyone on this list at one point or another and have been killed by most at least once. It’s pretty much impossible to get an objective view at this point.

All that being said, VII has always been fun fights. As have the rest of you. All we can really do now is go down with the ship as we get 1 new thing added to WvW every 4-6 months in the hopes that we all stay interested enough to keep playing.

TLDR: Same kitten different day.

jul… xxx Julian xxx, you got kicked 5 months ago. let it go.

Hey, I’m the leader of BoRP. I think you have a very unclear view of what kind of guild we are, what we’ve done, and who we are. In our roster we have about six people out of 28 that anybody would consider ‘old GvG veterans.’ Almost all of us are competitively-minded players from different parts of the game that came together with a positive attitude and a willingness to improve. We’ve trained from scratch about 90% of our current roster and continue to accept players from every part of the game that have a decent mechanical level and a good attitude. One of the best players in our guild came from TORK.

A competitive game mode needs people at a high level and people at a mid level. A lot of people have this misconception that every top guild needs to disband for there to be a viable scene; but the truth is that if that happens then there’s nobody to drive progression. The GvGs and open field fights BoRP had against KEK throughout HoT pushed both guild’s members as both players and theory crafters, leading to a much more refined meta in NA.

I’ve gotten pretty tired of uninformed people saying this repeatedly and have felt like it invalidates all the hard work my guild members have put in for the last year, so I apologize if my post comes off as aggressive.

I think he meant that he feels most top guilds didn’t start from complete fresh players but rather experienced players from retired guilds, moving to a same new guild and bringing those knowledge to only that new guild. Therefore the number of competitive guilds are limited due to limited spread of knowledge.

First of all, he said a very small portion of his guild are “old GvG vets”.

Second of all. Spread of knowledge? A lot of the knowledge is right out there to grab if you’re willing to go out there and grab it.

Or, if you don’t feel like you can quite grasp it on your own, I can’t say [RD] – Redemption is as good as [BoRP] by any means, but they’re on HoD and they run pretty similar to how I’m used to organized groups running. Minus some call outs for cool downs like wells, etc.

You’re pretty much in Dawn’s time zone from what I can tell, why don’t you see if you can run with them in their discord and pick up their skills and then expand from there?

That advice isn’t necessarily directed at you, it’s just in general if someone on HoD wants to learn how to run as an organized group.

Or, for that matter, if anyone wants to learn as an organized group.

Just run with other organized groups on your sever, take what you think they did right, and incorporate it. Expand on it.

And most importantly. Run practice drills. Both to warm up when you’re in WvW, and to just generally practice.

And don’t be afraid to accept GvGs from anyone. If you lose, you lose. If you win in a stomp, you win in a stomp. Either way, someone’s learning something.

LOL. You didn’t know what tz we run then maybe you should do research? As for gvg? We did scrim with mgr, ahma, rf, late (is it late? i dont rmb, a guild once from ocx sos) etc. Well, obviously not the same tz as [RD]. You really need to do research instead of embarrassing yourself with your limited knowledge.

GrahamW.5397:

SkyShroud.2865:

McGodd.9427:

SniffyCube.6107:

Years ago, a list like this would be relevant, but now the experienced players have pooled into 1-3 guilds and that pool will probably become smaller with time.

Atm, imo, the best guilds are kek or borp and then when those guilds break apart, it’ll be whichever guild those same players have gone into. It used to be a huge list and a very spread out list when this game was actually alive, but at this point it’s the same names under a different guild.

Maybe those guilds will continue to stockpile the more experienced players and run 25 – 30 deep gvg veterans. Why not? You can’t fault people for playing with their friends. Everyone likes steamrolling. ..Maybe they’ll break apart into smaller guilds and try to train new people… who knows, but I don’t see the competitive scene reviving itself anytime soon. Not the way things are going, and it’s pretty hard to pick up pugs and try to build a core with them. Combine that with how badly everyone memes on guilds trying to build… not many make it.

Also, the “rest” of our guilds all have footage of us dumpstering each other at one point in time. It’s pretty hard to tell at this point who is the better guild. Maybe over the course of the year certain guilds happened to come out on top more often than not? Everyone here has had a kitten day or two. I’m not sure what the litmus test is, but if this is a purely open field guide then I know for a fact I’ve killed almost everyone on this list at one point or another and have been killed by most at least once. It’s pretty much impossible to get an objective view at this point.

All that being said, VII has always been fun fights. As have the rest of you. All we can really do now is go down with the ship as we get 1 new thing added to WvW every 4-6 months in the hopes that we all stay interested enough to keep playing.

TLDR: Same kitten different day.

jul… xxx Julian xxx, you got kicked 5 months ago. let it go.

Hey, I’m the leader of BoRP. I think you have a very unclear view of what kind of guild we are, what we’ve done, and who we are. In our roster we have about six people out of 28 that anybody would consider ‘old GvG veterans.’ Almost all of us are competitively-minded players from different parts of the game that came together with a positive attitude and a willingness to improve. We’ve trained from scratch about 90% of our current roster and continue to accept players from every part of the game that have a decent mechanical level and a good attitude. One of the best players in our guild came from TORK.

A competitive game mode needs people at a high level and people at a mid level. A lot of people have this misconception that every top guild needs to disband for there to be a viable scene; but the truth is that if that happens then there’s nobody to drive progression. The GvGs and open field fights BoRP had against KEK throughout HoT pushed both guild’s members as both players and theory crafters, leading to a much more refined meta in NA.

I’ve gotten pretty tired of uninformed people saying this repeatedly and have felt like it invalidates all the hard work my guild members have put in for the last year, so I apologize if my post comes off as aggressive.

I think he meant that he feels most top guilds didn’t start from complete fresh players but rather experienced players from retired guilds, moving to a same new guild and bringing those knowledge to only that new guild.

Read Veri’s post again my dude.

I did.

Veri do admit that his roster is not complete fresh players and of course, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t have any fresh players.

What Sniffy is trying to say that guilds that end up with a group of elite players, regardless how big or how small, just as long there is a group, it can help to guide all those future fresh players recruited, giving birth to a new top guild. Likewise, group of elite players tend to stay together thus the number of new top guild become limited due to limited spread of knowledge. It is not like complete fresh rosters can’t become new top guild, it just take way lot more efforts and time, they have to do more experiments due to lack of experiences elsewhere those with elite groups of players can afford to do less since they experimented it before and from experiences decided certain things won’t work.

The main point is Sniffy didn’t really demean and say anyone not putting any efforts, just the amount of efforts varies thus the number of top guild born is also limited due to the amount of efforts required also varies.

McGodd.9427:

SniffyCube.6107:

Years ago, a list like this would be relevant, but now the experienced players have pooled into 1-3 guilds and that pool will probably become smaller with time.

Atm, imo, the best guilds are kek or borp and then when those guilds break apart, it’ll be whichever guild those same players have gone into. It used to be a huge list and a very spread out list when this game was actually alive, but at this point it’s the same names under a different guild.

Maybe those guilds will continue to stockpile the more experienced players and run 25 – 30 deep gvg veterans. Why not? You can’t fault people for playing with their friends. Everyone likes steamrolling. ..Maybe they’ll break apart into smaller guilds and try to train new people… who knows, but I don’t see the competitive scene reviving itself anytime soon. Not the way things are going, and it’s pretty hard to pick up pugs and try to build a core with them. Combine that with how badly everyone memes on guilds trying to build… not many make it.

Also, the “rest” of our guilds all have footage of us dumpstering each other at one point in time. It’s pretty hard to tell at this point who is the better guild. Maybe over the course of the year certain guilds happened to come out on top more often than not? Everyone here has had a kitten day or two. I’m not sure what the litmus test is, but if this is a purely open field guide then I know for a fact I’ve killed almost everyone on this list at one point or another and have been killed by most at least once. It’s pretty much impossible to get an objective view at this point.

All that being said, VII has always been fun fights. As have the rest of you. All we can really do now is go down with the ship as we get 1 new thing added to WvW every 4-6 months in the hopes that we all stay interested enough to keep playing.

TLDR: Same kitten different day.

jul… xxx Julian xxx, you got kicked 5 months ago. let it go.

Hey, I’m the leader of BoRP. I think you have a very unclear view of what kind of guild we are, what we’ve done, and who we are. In our roster we have about six people out of 28 that anybody would consider ‘old GvG veterans.’ Almost all of us are competitively-minded players from different parts of the game that came together with a positive attitude and a willingness to improve. We’ve trained from scratch about 90% of our current roster and continue to accept players from every part of the game that have a decent mechanical level and a good attitude. One of the best players in our guild came from TORK.

A competitive game mode needs people at a high level and people at a mid level. A lot of people have this misconception that every top guild needs to disband for there to be a viable scene; but the truth is that if that happens then there’s nobody to drive progression. The GvGs and open field fights BoRP had against KEK throughout HoT pushed both guild’s members as both players and theory crafters, leading to a much more refined meta in NA.

I’ve gotten pretty tired of uninformed people saying this repeatedly and have felt like it invalidates all the hard work my guild members have put in for the last year, so I apologize if my post comes off as aggressive.

I think he meant that he feels most top guilds didn’t start from complete fresh players but rather experienced players from retired guilds, moving to a same new guild and bringing those knowledge to only that new guild. Therefore the number of competitive guilds are limited due to limited spread of knowledge.

Well, at least this list has way more guilds than the other ones, isn’t it?
It also only include NA guilds instead of randomly mixing here and there.

Then again, making a list is stupid, I doubt most people even know how what guilds they have in their own server and likewise how updated and accurate their info are.

@The Path Finder.3197

That isn’t the issue man. Your issue is with the cross chat features and having members spreading their attentions thus you wonder if this player using your guild as a tool or actually contributing something. Socializing also become a questionable topic. What you can only do now is to kick people out who apparently sucking your guild dry. Anet not gonna change how guild is now, the most you can do is oppose any suggestion that involve increasing the total joinable guilds to more than 5.

XenesisII.1540:

SkyShroud.2865:

That is base on assumptions which you have no basis of and likewise I don’t which is why I don’t think that way.

Read forums everyday since 3 mths ago?

There’s a reason why my name has II in it.
Xenesis.6389 from day one.

P.S everything we talk about in wvw is mostly based on assumptions, because they have not revealed the inner workings of their game, but you know some things come down to common sense.

Common senses are something are that factual, consistent, explainable by science. Since when wvw devs have a track records of consistency when come to balancing?

I gonna try summarize the main points which means it gonna skip most logical thinking explanations and if you are not an logical thinker, I suggest you to read the wall of texts.

What are major issues with current WvW servers now

• WvW Populations vs Base Populations
  • Base populations make up of not only wvwers but also pvers, pvpers and inactive accounts
  • WvW populations can never be more than the base populations thus bigger base is likely to have bigger wvw
  • Base populations aren’t equal between servers
    • Server full threshold wasn’t base on WvW population for first 2.5 years
    • Anet is known to increase individual server’s threshold during then
    • Megaserver didn’t exist at start, free transfer was open for first few months. Many players stacked at a selected few servers, not just wvwers.
• Fixed Full Threshold
  • What’s the problems with it?
    • Imagine WvW as a glass of water. This glass is 10% filled and if we want to fill it, we need find water from somewhere, we can take it from other glasses. That’s how fixed threshold permits stacking.
• Fixed Full Threshold vs Base Populations
  • Fxed full threshold only stops people from joining or transferring in. It doesn’t stop the people from its very own server to join WvW thus pushing wvw populations way over the threshold.
• WvW Status Algorithm (History)
  • First wvw algorithm was implemented after 2.5 years when both DB and DH hit full status due to their huge non-wvw populations.
  • WvWalgorithm is changed again about 6 months ago to include play hours as part of the mathematical formula, due to JQ and some EU servers being full because of their casual populations.
• WvW Status Algorithm (Play hours) vs Fixed Full Threshold
  • Using a really simple logic. If the formula is “Players*Hours” then “1000*1=1000” and “500*2=1000”. If the threshold is set at 1000, both are considered full. What happen if the 1000 players decided to put in an play an hour more?
  • Using the same simple logic. “250*4=1000”. 250vs1000 people. 4 map queues?
  • Refer to the post I have made 6 months ago @ https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/New-WvW-Pop-Algorithm
• Coverage
  • Coverage means just how many hours out of the 24 hours the servers can cover with decent amount of populations
  • What’s the problems with it?
    • Coverage between servers are not equal. Some servers have more PST, OCX, SEA, EU or Early NA
  • What was done to lesser impact of the unequal coverage?
    • Warscore is equalized via skirmish point system but does nothing to coverage imbalance
• Coverage vs Fixed Full Threshold
  • Fixed Full Threshold is an overall threshold, it does not consider the coverage differences between servers thus as long as the overall count exceed the threshold, it will mark the server full.
• Inflow of new players vs Numerous servers
  • New players are to choose an open servers at the start of the game
  • Do we have enough new players for 24 NA and 27 EU servers?
• Inflow of new players vs Fixed Full Threshold vs Base Populations
  • Closed servers lose players over time due to attrition
  • Servers with huge base populations will not “feel” that attrition immediately but borderline full servers will.
  • Borderline full servers will suffer defeats against huge full servers, demoralization lead to discontents lead to loss of players or more complains
  • New players will choose non-full servers. These servers will eventually fill up and become full but still won’t able to match huge full servers’ numbers.

What can we do to solve the issues?

• Deleting all servers
• Remaking the worlds while cutting down the number of worlds
• Redesign the threshold, change fixed to dynamic
  • Dynanmic check for disparity between servers, servers will grow and shrink comparable equally.
• Eliminate server base population design, adapt megaserver base population design
• Maintain server wvw population design, eliminate non-wvw active accounts from wvw populations periodically
• Improve transfer system, provide incentive to move from full to open server, like discount in transfer cost
• Timing to introduce the system is extremely critical, servers will be filled on first come first basis. Thus, should be implemented during NA prime.
• Additional safety net for coverage balance would be categorising players base on their playing time, personalising capping system.

I don’t want servers to be deleted! There are alternative! You are stupid! I hate you!

• This isn’t personal, it is extremely objective. It is only considered because I fail to find any possible logical steps to solve while keeping them.
• Can you fix the current imbalance with current servers?
• Does making servers all open for free transfer now helps?
• Will people be willing to unstack their servers? How many?
• Does having a dynamic threshold and evenly spread populations to 24 NA or 27 EU servers help?
• Will you be willing to break your community up due to spreading of population? (Affect the Full or Very High servers)
• Do we have enough off hours to spread to 24 NA or 27 EU servers?
• Do you want a immediate fix or a slow fix extending to many years by waiting for people to quit?

You can’t guarantee it will work!

• Can you guarantee that it will not then?
• Did anet guaranteed having canon, new big wvw map and linkings are good ideas?
• Why can’t you live test? All you have to do is to keep the current servers’ data and its list of players’ so you can revert it all back when need to. New players will still choose an old server at the start. Everyone will choose a new test servers ingame.

Community will still break apart
Of course it will. It just isn’t unfair as spreading to 24 or 27 servers, or merging. Everyone suffer the same fate. It will still keep majority of your community, provided that your communities are actually united as you think it is.

XenesisII.1540:

SkyShroud.2865:

XenesisII.1540:

SkyShroud.2865:

The only thing I am worried about is how will this affect the population status? Are anet excluding the data for these few days of demo or will they include them thus making servers temporarily full for a week or two?

Well if you’re so worried about that then do transfers now? Why are you worried about being full in 2 weeks? are you planning a massive transfer of imaginary guilds to your server during that particular time?

Only half the main servers are still full now, when a couple weeks ago it was all 12 anyways. Not exactly something to worry over.

Do you not know that relinking is coming? If the data is include, do you not know that it can cause even worse linking? Seeing that you don’t actually frequent the forum, I suggest you to read up a thing or two.

Do you think they just wake up on friday morning, check the data over the past week, and make decisions on links just off that?

There’s a spike of population this weekend and they know why, which is why they probably wouldn’t even consider that data, but you know the 7 previous weeks of data they have.

I read the forums and posts like these every day… unfortunately…

That is base on assumptions which you have no basis of and likewise I don’t which is why I don’t think that way.

Read forums everyday since 3 mths ago?

henchmen.1856:

SkyShroud.2865:

Hesacon.8735:

I’m more curious how you guys are getting into full servers.

I’ve got friends trying to get into SoS and it’s like, permaclosed for some reason.

I am more curious on how FA stays open when FA got overall more guilds than some “very high” servers. This isn’t unique to FA either, there are some servers like FA too have many guilds.

PS: They aren’t full so I assume you meant how FA isn’t.

lel fa has only 3 na guilds. bomb, die and hp.

Really? Do you queue 4 maps on reset?

Kylden Ar.3724:

I vote no. I do not want what is in essence another EotM.

I vote to get rid of the links. Some of us want our small scale combat back and to never see BlackGate again. Kaineng didn’t sign up for this.

Please read it, this isn’t EOTM, this is similar to merging but instead of mindlessly merging, you delete everything and get everyone to choose new servers again while implementing a brand new system.

Hesacon.8735:

I’m more curious how you guys are getting into full servers.

I’ve got friends trying to get into SoS and it’s like, permaclosed for some reason.

I am more curious on how FA stays open when FA got overall more guilds than some “very high” servers. This isn’t unique to FA either, there are some servers like FA too have many guilds.

PS: They aren’t full so I assume you meant how FA isn’t.

XenesisII.1540:

SkyShroud.2865:

The only thing I am worried about is how will this affect the population status? Are anet excluding the data for these few days of demo or will they include them thus making servers temporarily full for a week or two?

Well if you’re so worried about that then do transfers now? Why are you worried about being full in 2 weeks? are you planning a massive transfer of imaginary guilds to your server during that particular time?

Only half the main servers are still full now, when a couple weeks ago it was all 12 anyways. Not exactly something to worry over.

Do you not know that relinking is coming? If the data is include, do you not know that it can cause even worse linking? Seeing that you don’t actually frequent the forum, I suggest you to read up a thing or two.

The food provided are limited, the runes and sigil too are limited. Not too sure if they are “trying” to test but more like they fear that there won’t be enough people to make it a fun experience for those who are want to try out the specialization.

The only thing I am worried about is how will this affect the population status? Are anet excluding the data for these few days of demo or will they include them thus making servers temporarily full for a week or two?

Arantheal.7396:

>why would people pick “Medium” over “Very High”
Because some people really hate que’s and enjoy group / solo-roaming more than blobbing…
Your favorite way of playing wvw is not automatically everyones favorite way of playing wvw…

This is a poor reasoning, linking invalid all of those. A couple of server continue to stay as medium despite many were full.

Arantheal.7396:

>I already stated that there will be existing servers far exceeding the full threshold
And guess what happens when my changes would be introduced:
As soon as everybody gets unhooked initially, those coming too late to the party will be locked out from rejoining their server, due to it being full already, causing them to tickle down into other servers. In some case even taking their guilds with them, resulting in even more free slots…

This is base on assumption on returning players, a lot of returning players. Assumption that guilds will transfer out for returning players. How many guilds in the already full server now have transferred so far?

Arantheal.7396:

>Is it alright to punish these servers for things that are mostly not their fault as it is designs failure in the first place?
They do not own these servers. Being on them is a privilege, not a right. And if them being there is the result of a design failure – as you said yourself – correcting this issue would automatically mean that some will loose their erroneously granted privilege of being there and need to adjust to the new situation.
It’s the same principle of nerfing a class: Even tho it will kitten off some of the players playing it, it is necessary regardless to keep the balance of the game. Still, a nerf or population cutdown does not mean destroying / deleting a community, it merely means to hurt them.
And these wounds can and will heal, resulting an improved gameplay-experience for everyone who comes after them, and – after a period of adjustment – even improving the overall gameplay experience including for those who can’t enter their original servers anymore but had time to settle down elsewhere.

So is ok to selectively hurt people and not ok to equally destroy everyone, erm…

Arantheal.7396:

About your reply to my second post:
you collude 2 very different things.
One is a change of gameplay-mechanics that apply to everyone involved equally.
What you suggest are different transfer-prices for different people on a individual basis, so active discrimination of singled out individuals. Even worse, gems are bought for real money, and tempering with prices for services in a individual basis is just the start of a slippery slope down to place that you yourself wouldn’t want to end up in as well…

You suggested selectively hurting server, I suggest selective hurting individuals, you can hurt server, why I can’t hurt individual? It is a matter of perspective but in this case, this isn’t really selective but every single one are subjected to it, as long your timezone is full, you are locked out

Also, base on categorical imperative (which the other posters love to point it out) on implementing solutions for system, your’s doesn’t abide to that since you are applying your punishment on selective basis and not subjecting everyone on the same punishment.

Good for you, HOD only have 2 queue at best, is sad.

Arantheal.7396:

>Why would people pick a emptier server if higher server are open?
Because they are obviously not open.
The pop cap wouldn’t be an issue anymore, since all players contributing to it are actively playing on it, so further players would just mean higher Que’s, which are frustrating as well.
This in turn means that all servers will have a chance to reach the population cap eventually, IF the size of the general player-pool allows for it.

>How can we have equal populations if we don’t have enough to go to 24 servers?
We won’t, because equality of population isn’t the goal, it’s equality of recruitment chances. And that goal is reached, allowing for ongoing competition between the servers.

>How will that even impact the already full server that has a lot of players already driven to do wvw via the reward patch?
Most likely it won’t, which is the preferred outcome for the people on these servers. Still, as soon as a guild moves for whatever reason (drama, fresh start, whatever), their slots will be left open for the taking. Take your chances when that occurs.
Also, this is why we had tiers originally: to pair servers on a somewhat equal footing. And with these chances, they will develop more closely population-wise over time.

I clearly state they are open. Sure, there will be “Full” servers, but there will also be “Very High” servers, why would people pick “Medium” over “Very High”?

Is there a point in giving servers false hope if equal populations imbalance continue to exist? I already stated that there will be existing servers far exceeding the full threshold, for new servers that are open and later turn full due to active recruitment, do you think they are capable of fighting toe to toe with those servers? If they can’t, how does that help? Then, on another paragraph, you expect those super full servers to shrink for whatever reasons, how is that any different from harming the communities? Is it alright to punish these servers for things that are mostly not their fault as it is designs failure in the first place?

Arantheal.7396:

SkyShroud.2865:

from there personalise transfer system.

Do you realize that this can be called “discriminate based on individual player-habits” as well?
Do you seriously advocate for such a practice!?

In the business world, personalizing service is actually a plus and it is very popular. Of course, in this case, it isn’t a service but rather restriction on movement. When anet decided to implement time slice, do you think the off hours people see it as a discrimination. I personally see it as a discrimination and I am from off hours, it is saying that you are doing way too well and you need to be restricted for that. Is it necessary inorder to create a more balance score system? It is. Freedom and balance don’t really go well with another, you want balance something, you need to limit something. It is a give and take.

Arantheal.7396:

>you are attempting to fix it via attrition by periodically reducing it bit by it is what I am saying
And you are wrong!
Dude, read my initial post again.
I said to first unhook all accounts from the servers, then allow those who actively choose to do so back in, and keep purging inactive accounts every 3 months, to make room for new, active ones.
And since now everyone can choose and try out any server that they deem interesting, all servers will get an influx of new, active wvw-players on reasonable rates.
This is the opposite of slow attrition!
This is slow invigoration!
AND it keeps all current communities alive and – on the long run – more prospering than ever!

All you do at this point is blatantly stating the opposite of what I actually said!
Your only valid critique-point left is coverage, and that one isn’t solved in your idea either, because the root of this issue is human decision: You can’t force anyone to choose a specific server, just to compensate its lack of nighttime coverage. Unless the very core mechanics of wvw get changed (no 24/7 wvw-server-uptime anymore / tick cap), this issue will always remain, and frankly, it’s not that big of a problem to beginn with either, since it’s a game that will always restart and reset, and not a rl-war with actual casualties.
If other servers have a nighttime advantage via population-timezones, deal with it and hope for the next matchup. And if you get night-capped ALL of the time, and it annoys YOU so much, pay the costs to transfer. That’s what the transfer function is meant for: For active players to choose their favorite environment.
If you only enjoy winning, join the winners, and make room for those who appreciate the environment of your current server more. GvG’ers come to mind, f.e.

In fact, the populationcap can stay in place as well. Every 3 months it would be reduced anyways as inactive accounts get unplugged from them, and therefore just cause smaller servers to catch up over time. Therefore a population-cap wouldn’t be an issue anymore (as you try to make it out to be) since every server has the chance to reach it eventually.

In that case, this part don’t make any logical sense. I thought is a mis-phrase but now since you say you gonna not reduce cap, then how does this logic even work. Why would people pick a emptier server if higher server are open? Why would emptier server even stand a chance when you don’t have enough people to spread to 24 servers? How can we have equal populations if we don’t have enough to go to 24 servers? How will that even impact the already full server that has a lot of players already driven to do wvw via the reward patch?

As for the coverage, I did explained about implementation timing and modification of algorithm to support identifying of player’s play timing, from there personalise transfer system. Also, I did mentioned (maybe in another thread) that you won’t have enough coverage to go to 24 servers.

Nightcapping isn’t all about win or lose, well, I do have to say the very term nightcapping is actually made by people who care only about win or lose. However, for people that are actually playing at that timing, it is a matter of gameplay. You are not fixing the gameplay for these people.

Arantheal.7396:

>you cannot achieve populations balance in a reasonable short period of time without that.
I do not intend to fix it within a short period of time.
I directly stated that I would allow time to correct this issue on the basis of these changes.
You are the one who wants to rush it and therefore takes server-loss into account.
You will find that there was zero mentioning of the deletion of servers in my first post.
Hence I stand by my assumption that you did not understand my post for what it is, and just correlate it to your own intentions.
I do not share yours.
Your frame of evaluation of its effectiveness under YOUR goals does not apply.
Deal with it.

>It is my words against others, it is a pointless discussion, ad hominem attacks are just a pure waste of time.
Therefore I did not engage in such manners. Do you assume I did? Do you strawmen again?
Welp, rhetoric question… In fact you did.

>Btw, did I question your intention when made your proposal?
No, neither did I. Your question is pointless.

Anyways, arguing you seems futile.
Sorry for hijacking your thread.
Maybe I open my own in a couple of months, if these problems for wvw still exist.
Good bye.

Since you are not attempting to fix it in a reasonable short period of the time, you are attempting to fix it via attrition by periodically reducing it bit by it is what I am saying, therefore harming the communites and in this case the top populated communites. In other words, you are just merely selectively harming communities to reach your goal. Not all that different, you are still harming communities, you are just doing it in a subtle manner and at the same progress, you will see people like myself and many others complaining about how unfair the full status is. Likewise, again, as mentioned, you are not fixing the coverage issue but rather the overall total numbers.

In your perspective I am reckless but in my perspective, you are not accounting for the different perspectives and scenarios during the whole progress. Ultimately, you are still not gonna get a comparable balance via overall total numbers alone.

Lastly, the ad hominem is reference to your reference on Norbe’s question and using his questions to cite disingenuous . Honestly speaking, if you can’t keep up with the conversation then don’t put it in. After all, you did completely miss the points.

I think is the connection itself, the lag occur during large fights but not during travels. So the sudden spike in bandwidth might be the cause. I think they are using blade servers.

Norbe.7630:

ill wait here so you would know what strawberry argument is

http://www.gw2wvw.net/index.php?/topic/690-wvw-backpack-called-ad-hominem/

you don’t want the fans to be bored by the same ad hohenheim, strawberry argument, or any disambiguation replies you can google just to ditch other peoples argument and if you don’t have an explanation you would just simply say its a personal atk.

thats why you are losing atm, you all cry when you get downed

Erm, my post got deleted, is fine because if other guilds or leaders or officers do ask me for opinions about servers, I will just tell them what I think. So, it doesn’t matter if you or others read that post or not.

Regardless, the fact that you continuously moving the topic off point via some fallacies don’t make my arguments disambiguation. In fact, I question you why you continuously trying hard to misrepresent my position while providing little to the actual topic.